HG and Robotech Debates

[Seto Kaiba]

EXCEPT ABOUT SETO. I DONT SEE HIM BEING THE HEAD OF THE GROUP OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. BUT HE DOES HAVE AN EXTENDED OF BAD WORDS IN EVERY POST TOWARDS A ROBOTECH FAN. AND FANS NOTICE THROUGH HIS POST HE LIKES TO THROWN IN A FEW THERE WHILE TRYING TO PROVE A POINT. SINCE HE WAS DOING IT THE MOST IN RT.COM, RTX, AND ESPECIALLY HERE. WHICH MADE HIM AN EASY BAN. ESPECIALLY IN A PAGE THAT I AM MORE INVOLVED WITH.

Oh puh-leeze... if you're going to lie at least take the time to come up with something a little less obvious. You're quite notorious for your attempts to shut down any opinion that doesn't agree with your own. You banned me on RT.com for contradicting you by pointing out the truth about Harmony Gold's rights to Macross on RT.com, and you changed SIGHUP's temporary suspension of my account on RTX into a permanent ban because I wouldn't take Doug Bendo's accusations that everybody who likes Macross Frontier is a pedophile lying down. Nobody doubts that your real reasons for moving JT's podcast thread to a part of the site where nobody can see it is because he's not drinking the Harmony Gold kool-aid either and he's still doing better than your boy Bendo.

Don't come here and try to feed us a line about how I say "bad words" when you sat back and let Doug Bendo drop the "n" word like it was a goddamn conjunction, accuse everybody and their dog of being pedophiles and supporters of child pornography, and threaten JT and half the other members on your site. You're a liar MEMO. You always were. I'm just disgusted that it took me so long to see you for what you were.

IT HAS BEEN THE NORM SINCE WAY BACK TO CALL A MACROSS FAN PURIST NOT ONLY WHEN "talking about tension between the original Japanese SDFM TV Macross and Robotech." BUT SEEING POST OF THAT LIKE SETO.

Exactly what we've been saying... it's the norm to accuse anyone who isn't satisfied with the status quo of RT of being a Macross Purist. Hell, you twits were accusing JT of being one, and he's never even seen Macross.

Correction: Your (Seto's) comments tend to be directed at specific, perhaps ignorant or over-zealous, members... Apologies!

's cool. I may be quite critical of Robotech's creators and the more belligerent, ignorant members of the fanbase, but I still have quite a few friends who are Robotech fans... some of whom I'll be helping build a replacement RT board and reference site now that MEMO has run most of the population of RobotechX off the site and turned it into a miniature version of RT.com, complete with censorship of any opinion other than "Harmony Gold is wonderful and Robotech is the best anime series of all time".

Edited December 10, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[RedWolf]

Memo while you're here I'll say this for the sake of simple net ethics and my squinting eye. "Type normally"

[MEMO1DOMINION]

RedWolf

Memo while you're here I'll say this for the sake of simple net ethics and my squinting eye. "Type normally"

WHY I TYPE VERY LITTLE AND NOT ALL THE TIME...

[Rossi]

You're right... You don't know squat about what the thread is about.

Go to the very first page of this thread you'll get the facts.

I'm assuming you're trying to take me to task as a Macross "newbie"? Awesome... I have been reading and, for the most part, following this thread for quite a while. I enjoy it! I get a laugh at of how seriously some people take their cartoons. I'm not talking down my nose at people, however, and I hope my response doesn't come off that way. I respect the passion that many of you share for Macross. Your response, RedWolf, leads me to believe that you're possibly trying to pile on the "new guy"...? The Robotech fan? I understand the difference between the shows, I understand why this thread exists, and I also know that my statement focused on not pretending to fully understand the fandom or "culture" surrounding the expanded Macross universe. I comprehend fully why the debate exists... I have been a member here for years; I just don't post very often!

Funkenstein, I can appreciate why a Macross fan would be upset about the licensing issues. As a Robotech fan, they don't really impact me directly. But, as Seto said earlier, I also know that there are ways around the "issues" at hand... It does make it a pain, however, and I do understand your frustration!

Edited December 10, 2009 by Rossi

[Seto Kaiba]

I'm assuming you're trying to take me to task as a Macross "newbie"? Awesome... I have been reading and, for the most part, following this thread for quite a while. I enjoy it! [...] leads me to believe that you're possibly trying to pile on the "new guy"...? The Robotech fan?

Eh, I very much doubt it's anything along those lines... every now and again we get a particularly sensitive Robotech fan who'll come charging to the defense of Harmony Gold and/or Robotech without stopping to read more than a few posts, which generally leads them to leap to some creative, but absurd, conclusions about the reasons people here take exception to Harmony Gold's treatment of Macross and the like. If you've been, as you say, following this thread for some time now, you probably saw the interesting conclusions that bloke Donovan jumped to and the brouhaha he started based on those faulty conclusions.

As such, I'm sure you can understand why some of the regulars in this thread have a low tolerance for that sort of thing.

Seto: Please note the correction that I made in my previous post regarding general attacks against Rt.com members...

Yep, I saw... did you catch my response to it in my last post?

Edited December 10, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Robelwell202]

SETO

MY POINT WHY I SKIP POST LIKE THESE AND READ ON WITH OTHERS.

So, like your patron, Bendo, you're either too lazy or ignorant to read these posts that Seto puts up? Because they're too long?

Okay... this gives a whole new dimension to your attitude and behavior of late, and this new dimention's quite unsettling.

If I read this correctly, you have just admitted that you don't read Seto's remarks because his posts are too long. Never mind that you're supposed to be a moderator at RT.com and RTX.com, and one of your responsibilities is to examine, fully, the content of each post. But no... MEMO, for whatever reason, hasn't bothered reading the bulk of Seto's posts, and doesn't know the content of them. Thenn how could he be qualified to pass a judgement on Seto?

I'll tell you... His buddy Bendo told him to.

Bendo: "Seto's being mean to me! WAH WAH!!! He's not nice like you are! WAHHHH WAHHHH Ban his ass! WAHHHHHH"

And, MEMO does his bidding.

If you doubt me, take a listen to Bendo's last podcast episode. It's filled with JT-hate and Seto-hate, and all the latest bannings at RTX came a day later.

[VFTF1]

SETO:

Altruism's a nice thing to ponder idly, but it doesn't work very well in the real world Pete. Why should the people who've been repeatedly wronged by this deluded egomaniac have to give him another chance to plant a knife in their backs or even treat him with civility?

Did Memo erase your knowledge from your mind. Did Memo demonstrate publicly that you are a fool? Did Memo torture you on hot coals?

No.

By banning you, Memo only demonstrated that he can't stand the heat from having a competent, knowledgeable person posting interesting informative posts on his website.

So...who has Memo wronged?

I say - Memo has wronged himself.

You will wrong yourself by being vindictive. Everyone respects you because here and on robotech.com you always just gave interesting, fact filled logical arguments.

That's why you're cool, and that's why Memo banning you made Memo look uncool.

If you start looking for revenge - it will hurt you more than it will hurt Memo.

I couldn't possibly care less if MEMO is bored with being lonely and having nobody to talk to but himself. He has nobody to blame for his loneliness but himself. It came about solely as the result of his actions against his fellow fans. He has made his bed, now let him sleep in it. I see no reason to take pity on him, or to give him yet another chance to abuse others.

You have every right to feel that way.

And yes, Memo would be doing himself a favor if he owned up to his mistakes and past transgressions towards you.

That said - you shouldn't worry about it. It's done. Robotech.com is a dead website because people like you were banned from it. Like I told Robowell - you won. What more do you want?

Be magnanimous in your victory.

MEMO:

EXACTLY!! THANKS VFTF1

EXCEPT ABOUT SETO. I DONT SEE HIM BEING THE HEAD OF THE GROUP OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. BUT HE DOES HAVE AN EXTENDED OF BAD WORDS IN EVERY POST TOWARDS A ROBOTECH FAN. AND FANS NOTICE THROUGH HIS POST HE LIKES TO THROWN IN A FEW THERE WHILE TRYING TO PROVE A POINT. SINCE HE WAS DOING IT THE MOST IN RT.COM, RTX, AND ESPECIALLY HERE. WHICH MADE HIM AN EASY BAN. ESPECIALLY IN A PAGE THAT I AM MORE INVOLVED WITH.

NOW UNLIKE JASONC, AND WHY I GET ALONG WITH THIS GUY, IS BECAUSE HE MIGHT HAVE THE SAME FEELING LIKE SETO, HE IS JUST MORE.....CIVIL ABOUT HOW HE COMMUNICATES THROUGH HIS POSTS.

Your welcome.

Did Seto ever swear at people, cuss out their moms, belittle them personally and post pornographic pictures of teenagers getting it on with chimpanzees?

Who cares if he has bad words for Robotech fans in every post? As long as those aren't swear words but rather arguments that are well reasoned - then I think it's fine. If you're going to start banning people for just disagreeing - you end up creating an atmosphere in which people are afraid to speak their mind.

Understand what banning somebody like Seto does to a website dude.

It scares people - it makes them think "will Memo get mad at me if I post this?" - and it stifles free conversation and debate and thought.

Come on. Seto is not someone who commited a blatant offense like swearing at people or posting porn or talking about My Little Pony all the time.

He wrote very long posts with lots of interesting opinions and seemed to research his views thoroughly.

A moderator should be mature enough to tolerate intelligent dissent.

You should man up and tolerate intelligent people who disagree with you.

Look at where all your members are?

They're here - in the HG and Robotech thread.

Like you.

Because you banned them all - for what?

For saying the things they're saying here.

Why can't Seto and you be having this conversation on Robotech.com? Isn't that where it really belongs - isn't this what a Robotech site should look like? People talking about Robotech?

Your behavior has led to a situation where all of the people who were interested enough in Robotech to sign up to your website have taken their discussion here.

Notice Gubaba is not a member of RT.com. Neither am I. Neither is a ton of MW members - because we aren't Robotech fans AT ALL.

Seto, Penguingirl (forgot her name - sorry!) and Robowell, just to name some - and other people ARE ROBOTECH FANS.

How do I know this?

Because they SIGHED UP TO AND PARTICIPATED IN ROBOTECH.COM

You kicked out all your fans.

You think Seto has faults and isn't perfect - well - what alternative is there? Are you REALLY upset over having fans like Seto participate at Robotech.com?

unban him and bury the hatchet.

If Seto isn't willing to be nice - then YOU be nice. Show us all that you're not afraid of intelligent people writing about Robotech in different ways at Robotech.com.

Take your fans back - they obviously have a lot of hurt over getting banned.

If I was a Robotech fan - I would be pissed too, because I'd probably PREFER to write about Robotech on the Robotech website instead of in a dinky thread on MW.

But you banned them. This is the only place they have left.

It's not about Macross Purist/Robotech fan - Seto didn't sign up to Robotech.com to troll. Come on. Be serious. You've read the guys' posts there - trolls don't post long well reasoned treatises.

You can disagree with him - but don't you see that the banning has just hurt you, your site and the reputation of Robotech?

I do think it's cool you're posting here and in the M7 thread and that you want to get everyone together at the Convention.

So - be even cooler than Seto is being right now - and unban him.

It's Christmas.

Show some Christmas spirit and just unban him.

Come on - let's see SOMEBODY step up to the plate here - Memo - this is your golden opportunity.

Everybody is pissed at you and thinks you're a troll and nobody trusts you.

Prove everybody wrong and lift the temp bans.

I won't let anybody hold a grudge against you - and nobody should. Just lift the bans - and we'll ask Seto and the others to forgive and forget. A sucky past need not lead to a sucky future.

Pete

[Rossi]

Eh, I very much doubt it's anything along those lines... every now and again we get a particularly sensitive Robotech fan who'll come charging to the defense of Harmony Gold and/or Robotech without stopping to read more than a few posts, which generally leads them to leap to some creative, but absurd, conclusions about the reasons people here take exception to Harmony Gold's treatment of Macross and the like. If you've been, as you say, following this thread for some time now, you probably saw the interesting conclusions that bloke Donovan jumped to and the brouhaha he started based on those faulty conclusions.

Yep, I saw... did you catch my response to it in my last post?

I did!

Again, I don't want to come off as misinformed; I have been a fan of this thread for quite some time. I will fully admit, however, that I don't know, or care to know about, the finer points of the legal battles between the companies involved in licensing issues. i do get the big picture. What interests me most about this thread is how passionate and, at times, ignorant both sides of the Macross/Robotech fanbase can be! It's like a Red Sox/Yankees rivalry in here at times, and I find that entertaining...

[MEMO1DOMINION]

VFTF1,

IT'S NOT EASY AS YOU THINK. WE DO GIVE WARNINGS. AND HE CLEANED UP HIS POSTS FOR A LITTLE WHILE. BUT HE CAN'T CONTROL HIMSELF OVER CERTAIN WORDS THAT IN ONE POST TO MANY IT BECOMES MORE OF AN ATTACK THAN EXPLAINING A POINT.

RT.COM S DEAD. THEN GOOD. WON'T ARGUE ABOUT THAT.

SEE, EVERYONE HAS THEIR BELIEFS. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT. EVEN SETOS BELIEFS. WE DIFFER AND THATS ALL.

THOSE TYPE OF POSTS ARE BEST SERVED IN THREADS LIKE THIS ONE, IN RTX ONLY IN CANON FODDER. RT.COM NOT ALLOWED.

EVEN MW IS RESTRICTIVE. OPEN UP THIS THREAD TO THE WHOLE PAGE LIKE BEFORE THEN ITS A WORLD OF A MESS.

THEN AGAIN, THIS IS A MACROSS PAGE.

Edited December 10, 2009 by MEMO1DOMINION

[Seto Kaiba]

By banning you, Memo only demonstrated that he can't stand the heat from having a competent, knowledgeable person posting interesting informative posts on his website.

So...who has Memo wronged?

I say - Memo has wronged himself.

I most sincerely disagree... MEMO didn't wrong himself, he got EXACTLY what he wanted. He silenced the people who were making him look like a fool and who were saying things he didn't like. Ultimately, the people MEMO has done the greatest disservice to are the regular Robotech fans... the fans who are now afraid to even voice their opinions about the franchise because they're afraid the Thought Police (MEMO and Maverick) are going to come along and kick them out.

You will wrong yourself by being vindictive. Everyone respects you because here and on robotech.com you always just gave interesting, fact filled logical arguments.

There's a world of difference between being vindictive and being unwilling to give someone a second chance to plant a knife in your back. I don't hate MEMO and I don't want revenge on MEMO, I find him utterly untrustworthy and I think what he stands for is disgusting, and I lament the fact that the imbeciles at Harmony Gold entrusted him to look after part of the Robotech fandom.

That said - you shouldn't worry about it. It's done. Robotech.com is a dead website because people like you were banned from it. Like I told Robowell - you won. What more do you want?

Be magnanimous in your victory.

Pete, I can't call it a victory. None of us can. It came at a high cost, and too much of that cost is falling on the fans who had nothing to do with it. I may have been vindicated, but at the expense of allowing MEMO and Maverick to stifle what little intelligent discourse remained in the fandom, and permitting them to continue spreading lies, half-truths, and malicious misinformation among the fans.

unban him and bury the hatchet.

If Seto isn't willing to be nice - then YOU be nice. Show us all that you're not afraid of intelligent people writing about Robotech in different ways at Robotech.com.

Take your fans back - they obviously have a lot of hurt over getting banned.

While I appreciate the impassioned plea on my behalf, I have no interest in returning to Robotech.com or RobotechX, and neither do most of the people Maverick and MEMO have banned under a series of flimsy excuses for doing nothing more offensive than speaking their minds. I have no use for a website where I'm forbidden to express any view other than "Harmony Gold is great, Robotech is perfect, and Shadow Chronicles is a masterpiece". Frankly, I have even less use for a site run by someone who makes a habit of spreading malicious misinformation and supporting the hateful, frequently slanderous work of an ignorant roll.

But you banned them. This is the only place they have left.

No, no it is not. It's just somewhat topical here because it illustrates exactly how deep in the shitter Robotech is these days. An alternative for the now essentially-defunct RobotechX, one that can truly live up to the moniker of "By the fans, for the fans", is already under construction and should be available by year's end. Normally I wouldn't devote my time to a project like this, but the enthusiasm and creativity that the few remaining decent people in the fanbase have shown is kind of infectious... so I don't mind lending them some unused space and bandwidth on my server.

It's not about Macross Purist/Robotech fan - Seto didn't sign up to Robotech.com to troll. Come on. Be serious. You've read the guys' posts there - trolls don't post long well reasoned treatises.

Eh... actually I've known a few that do... but they're physics majors, and physics majors do that kind of crazy poo on a daily basis.

Everybody is pissed at you and thinks you're a troll and nobody trusts you.

Prove everybody wrong and lift the temp bans.

Even if he does, it proves nothing except that you can guilt him into reconsidering his actions at least in the short term, it's no guarantee that he won't slip right back into his usual MO of "YOU DISAGREE WITH ME? YOU BAN!". Nobody wants to go back to the sites he's banned them from Pete, so even if he does unban us, he's just wasting his time. We've seen how he treats people, and we've seen who he's supporting, and we want none of it.

[Einherjar]

VFTF1,

IT'S NOT EASY AS YOU THINK. WE DO GIVE WARNINGS. AND HE CLEANED UP HIS POSTS FOR A LITTLE WHILE. BUT HE CAN'T CONTROL HIMSELF OVER CERTAIN WORDS THAT IN ONE POST TO MANY IT BECOMES MORE OF AN ATTACK THAN EXPLAINING A POINT.

RT.COM S DEAD. THEN GOOD. WON'T ARGUE ABOUT THAT.

SEE, EVERYONE HAS THEIR BELIEFS. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT. EVEN SETOS BELIEFS. WE DIFFER AND THATS ALL.

THOSE TYPE OF POSTS ARE BEST SERVED IN THREADS LIKE THIS ONE, IN RTX ONLY IN CANON FODDER. RT.COM NOT ALLOWED.

EVEN MW IS RESTRICTIVE. OPEN UP THIS THREAD TO THE WHOLE PAGE LIKE BEFORE THEN ITS A WORLD OF A MESS.

THEN AGAIN, THIS IS A MACROSS PAGE.

This would make sense if you actually practiced what you preach. I guess MW is better in avoiding the drama that's plagued your site because of the way it's been organized. You call this restrictive, I call this good forum design to avoid unnecessary crap.

[MEMO1DOMINION]

Einherjar

This would make sense if you actually practiced what you preach. I guess MW is better in avoiding the drama that's plagued your site because of the way it's been organized. You call this restrictive, I call this good forum design to avoid unnecessary crap.

EXACTLY

MW ORGANIZED IT A LONG TIME AGO BY JUST HAVING ON THREAD DEDICATED TO IT.

FLIP IT IN RTX. DOING THE SAME THERE. KEEPING IT IN ONE PLACE. JUST THAT I THOUGHT DEBATE ALL OVER THE PLACE WOULD BE NO PROBLEM. MY BAD.

[RedWolf]

~snip

Nope just clarifying your initial observations of the thread are off base. It's not about piling on the Robotech fan. I just summarized the entire thread in its entirety for you. HG basically as a corporate entity is dying a slow death because of its archaic business model. Their only hope to survive is the Live Action Movie and do a reboot of the franchise. As stated it has a dwindling fan base. (That is if the studio doesn't screw them and don't make it at all.)

Take Hasbro for example. It has been in tight spots in the past but has grown and survived because it reinvents its properties, such as Transformers. Also Hasbro maintained a good relationship with its Japanese partner Takara, later as Tomy-Takara. This was the same company HG sued for the VF-1/Jetfire toy. TF fans becoming parents pass their hobby passion to their children. You don't see that in the Robotech franchise as with every attempt at a sequel goes kaput. Name recognition is also relevant. nBSG for example got its start because of the interest to revive the franchise into a movie by Tom De Santo and Bryan Singer. That didn't pan out because of 9-11 but Ron Moore took the opportunity generated and created a hard sci-fi re-imagining of Battlestar Galactica instead of a continuation of the 1978 series. Now there is talk that Glen Larson, the original producer of Battlestar Galactica, is planning a movie. Robotech name recognition becomes less and less as the years go by without a definite revival of the franchise.

In short HG's incompetence is its downfall.

[VFTF1]

Seto - there's no point in me arguing with you because I think you have hurt feelings - and I am not going to argue with your emotions. You have a right to feel hurt - I would hope you could one day get over it - but for now - I can't see anything fair out of trying to compell you to see things differently.

If I was in your shoes - and actually...I WAS in your shoes because I got banned from a Polish Transformers website (and this was before I became grumpy about TFs - this was at a time when I was pumping out dozens of fan comics and stories and enthusiasm) - and I know how it hurts when you are banned.

Yeah - it's "just the internet" -- but actually we are all people who as fans of a franchise put a lot of passion and time into it and then to just be banned when we did nothing wrong - it just sucks.

But that Polish TF website now has more posts by automatic spam than by people. It is dead. There is a pattern here. Take heart in that.

And hopefully your bad feelings will pass.

But maybe take a time out in arguing with Memo?

Nobody here at MW is going to buy the fairy tale that you're a troll. Everybody has read your posts at Robotech.com and elsewhere and your posts here and nobody would be silly enough to believe it.

So don't feel obliged to argue with Memo about it - what do you have to prove?

I dunno - just chill out for a second if you can.

The problem is not with you - but by bickering with Memo - you're not helping - I think you're not helping.

Meanwhile...

MEMO:

VFTF1,

IT'S NOT EASY AS YOU THINK. WE DO GIVE WARNINGS. AND HE CLEANED UP HIS POSTS FOR A LITTLE WHILE. BUT HE CAN'T CONTROL HIMSELF OVER CERTAIN WORDS THAT IN ONE POST TO MANY IT BECOMES MORE OF AN ATTACK THAN EXPLAINING A POINT.

RT.COM S DEAD. THEN GOOD. WON'T ARGUE ABOUT THAT.

SEE, EVERYONE HAS THEIR BELIEFS. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT. EVEN SETOS BELIEFS. WE DIFFER AND THATS ALL.

THOSE TYPE OF POSTS ARE BEST SERVED IN THREADS LIKE THIS ONE, IN RTX ONLY IN CANON FODDER. RT.COM NOT ALLOWED.

EVEN MW IS RESTRICTIVE. OPEN UP THIS THREAD TO THE WHOLE PAGE LIKE BEFORE THEN ITS A WORLD OF A MESS.

THEN AGAIN, THIS IS A MACROSS PAGE.

MEMO dude - I am happy that you seem to be talking about this in a calmer way than Seto.

But - can you at least understand why Seto feels hurt?

If you can see things calmly - then maybe you can at least say something NICE to him?

If you can't unban him because the powers at Robotech.com won't let you - then can you at least apologize for hurting his feelings?

Now you might laugh - you might think this sounds silly like we're in 1st grade.

But dude - clearly Seto's feelings have been hurt by you - and here's your big chance to say sorry.

And Memo - IGNORE Seto saying this:

Even if he does, it proves nothing except that you can guilt him into reconsidering his actions at least in the short term, it's no guarantee that he won't slip right back into his usual MO of "YOU DISAGREE WITH ME? YOU BAN!". Nobody wants to go back to the sites he's banned them from Pete, so even if he does unban us, he's just wasting his time. We've seen how he treats people, and we've seen who he's supporting, and we want none of it.

Seto is just saying that because he really feels hurt by you and doesn't trust you.

If you say "Sorry Seto for hurting your feelings" - he's probably not going to trust that either.

But you have to do SOMETHING.

Take SOME kind of first step.

Especially if Seto is not willing - which he's not.

Can't unban him? Fine.

Then just apologize to him for the mess.

Again - this is your big chance. Give the guy SOMETHING NICE. Do or say ANYTHING nice to him.

THAT can't possibly be "not as easy as I think"

All that would require is for you to type some nice words to Seto.

Come on dude.

I made fun of you in this thread - but you were nice enough never to take it personally and I made it clear that if you felt offended then I was sorry. If you ever DID write that you felt offended - I would apologize again.

People need to lighten up.

Seto doesn't want to lighten up because he feels hurt.

So - be nice - say sorry to him. And ignore any cynical feelings or mistrust he might have in return. Being nice to him will definitely make you feel better about yourself than arguing with him until the end of time.

I'm going to ignore the "MW is also restrictive" and all that other stuff.

Nobody is restricting you here right now.

The ball is in your court.

Seto has no power to stop you from posting whatever you want - and nobody can stop you from speaking your mind. You're free to keep insisting that he's wrong and you're right.

But how about using your freedom to try to make amends?

Will the world blow up if you say "sorry for hurting your feelings" and try to figure out how to resolve this?

Will you be less of a man because you say sorry and try to start looking for an honorable way to end this feud?

What do you have to loose dude?

Use your imagination. Figure out SOMETHING nice to do for Seto and the other people who have a grudge towards you.

Pete

[Rossi]

Ultimately, the people MEMO has done the greatest disservice to are the regular Robotech fans... the fans who are now afraid to even voice their opinions about the franchise because they're afraid the Thought Police (MEMO and Maverick) are going to come along and kick them out.

I'm not too sure that the regular/casual Robotech fan cares about who has been banned from the boards. The traffic and membership has changed quite a bit over the years. And, to be honest, there hasn't been much to be critical about lately. The last time I was critical on the boards was after I voiced my displeasure with RT:TSC. I won't get into details, but there was very little backlash. I find that if I back my opinions with justifiable reasons and/or facts, people don't have much to say... Sound familiar, Seto? After reading several of your posts over at Robotech.com, I didn't see anything wrong with what you had to say. In fact, I appreciate the fact that you go to great pains to justify your thoughts/opinions. A mite condescending at times, possibly, but certainly no more than others in the past.

[Seto Kaiba]

Seto - there's no point in me arguing with you because I think you have hurt feelings - and I am not going to argue with your emotions. You have a right to feel hurt - I would hope you could one day get over it - but for now - I can't see anything fair out of trying to compel you to see things differently.

I have no idea why you're so determined to make this into a case of "hurt feelings", I assure you it isn't. Being banned from Robotech.com was nothing more than a mild inconvenience. It hasn't stopped people from coming to me with their questions, it's just changed the way I give them their answers. As far as I'm concerned, nothing of value was lost. The same can be said for being banned from RobotechX, the site was virtually dead when I arrived, and in short order the apathy of those in charge allowed one troll after another to run riot over the site, so I consider myself well shut of the place, as do many others. If people didn't feel that way, there wouldn't be an organized boycott of the site.

Like I said, I don't hate MEMO, I hate what MEMO stands for... ignorance, misinformation, censorship of opinions, and abuse of authority for personal gain. I'm not hurt by what he did to me, I'm disgusted with what he's doing to his fellow Robotech fans. Seeing jerks hopped up on fake authority mistreating people just because it makes their balls feel big really hacks me off.

Nobody here at MW is going to buy the fairy tale that you're a troll. Everybody has read your posts at Robotech.com and elsewhere and your posts here and nobody would be silly enough to believe it.

It wouldn't bother me much even if they did, I don't do what I do for the kudos or the respect of my peers, I do it because I want to do something nice for my fellow fans.

Seto is just saying that because he really feels hurt by you and doesn't trust you.

No, I assure you that I meant what I said, and that the other people he's banned have similar feelings. There are no hurt feelings involved, just disgust at what he's done and how he treats his fellow fans. I don't give a toss if he unbans me or not, and most of the others he's banned don't either. It's not worth it to go back to those sites just to endure the same indignities again as soon as the guilt trip you're trying to use on him wears off. Rather than once again place ourselves under the ridiculous restrictions of Harmony Gold or trust that MEMO won't come over all censorship-happy again, we'd rather make our own way and deliver on the promise that RobotechX failed to fulfill and go further to do something for everyone and maybe even take some steps to remedy the shortcomings with Robotech resource sites that often lead to debates turning into games of he-said she-said.

I'm not too sure that the regular/casual Robotech fan cares about who has been banned from the boards. The traffic and membership has changed quite a bit over the years. And, to be honest, there hasn't been much to be critical about lately.

Eh, it varies depending on the individual... enough of them cared when I was banned that they still take pains to refer people to me when they fail to get the answers they need from the boards, and there's been more than one petition to unban me despite my protestations that I desire no such thing. I'd say there hasn't been much to be critical about only because there hasn't been anything worth talking about in years. It's been nothing but rehashes of the same old topics for ages now, and the lack of movement on the live-action movie and the lack of a follow-through on Shadow Chronicles did not help matters. The turnover in members has been the result of a growing discontent among the old-timers, and an increased insistence on kid-friendliness on a site devoted to a show only people in their 20s and 30s remember.

The last time I was critical on the boards was after I voiced my displeasure with RT:TSC. I won't get into details, but there was very little backlash. I find that if I back my opinions with justifiable reasons and/or facts, people don't have much to say... Sound familiar, Seto? After reading several of your posts over at Robotech.com, I didn't see anything wrong with what you had to say. In fact, I appreciate the fact that you go to great pains to justify your thoughts/opinions. A mite condescending at times, possibly, but certainly no more than others in the past.

Eh, the powers that be certainly took umbrage over what I had to say... but then again I understand our pal Tommy Yune is a sensitive soul.

Edited December 10, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[MEMO1DOMINION]

VT

MEMO dude - I am happy that you seem to be talking about this in a calmer way than Seto.

But - can you at least understand why Seto feels hurt?

If you can see things calmly - then maybe you can at least say something NICE to him?

MAYBE BECAUSE HE KNOWS I IGNORE HIS POSTS AND HE TOLD ME BEFORE HE DOES NOT LIKE THAT. BUT THOSE THAT KNOW ME IN PERSON I AM NOT WHAT HE IMPLIES.

I DONT KNOW WHAT I NEED TO DO TO HELP SETO. HURT? DONT KNOW. I DID NOT BAN HIM. BUT I DO AGREE TO HIS BANNINGS.

SETO AND I USED TO TALK. EVEN HELPED HIM WHEN I COULD. BUT SOMETIMES ONE GOES TO FAR. AND THEN ONE COMES HERE AND READS HE WAS DOING IT ON PURPOSE. HOW CAN I DEFEND HIM WHEN HE IS SAYING ALL THE CONTRARY IN PUBLIC FORUMS.

I ALWAYS SAID HE HAD THE BEST ARGUMENT FOR WHAT HE BELIEVED IN THE RIGHTS ISSUE. THAT HE IS RIGHT? THEN THIS THREAD WOULD HAVE BEEN CLOSED A LOOOOOOOOONG TIME AGO. AND WOULD HAVE A RT VS MACROSS THREAD INSTEAD.

WHAT COULD I SAY SORRY FOR? WHAT I DO TO HIM? OTHER THAN DISAGREE.

I AM NOT MAD AT HIM FOR ALL THE THINGS HE PILES ON ME. EVEN YOU FOR THAT MATTER AND JASONC KNOWS THAT AS WELL BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE WILL DRINK AND TALK ABOUT WORK AND FAMILY. EVEN THE THINGS HE SAYS HERE DOES NOT GET AT ME.

BUT WHY DO I NEED TO SAY SORRY? ALL I COULD SAY IS,

DUDE, WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU SETO?

I GUESS SINCE I POST HERE AND BEEN AROUND HIM ITS JUST AN EASY TARGET SINCE HE HAS NO ONE TO GO AT. I AM ALL COOL WITH THAT. BUT I CANT ACKNOWLEDGE HIM TILL HE ... RELAXES. THEN MAYBE, WE CAN TALK AGAIN. HECK, IF ME AND JASONC COULD DO THE SAME..AFTER LONG SILENCES...I SAY WHY NOT. LET SETO LT OUT HIS FEELINGS. NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. BUT TO SAY SORRY? I FIRST HAVE O KNOW WHAT I DID TO HIM. AND I GUESS I AM READING THROUGH YOU WHAT HE IS SAYING. SINCE YOU TELL IT MORE....CALMLY

I KNOW HOW IT FEELS. BE BANNED. YOU NOT ONLY ONE BANNED AT TR SITE.

[Einherjar]

Laying thick on the moral high ground thing there Memo. At the end of the day you're still the one with the power and authority in your sphere of influence. And you're responsible for Seto's and other people's unique situation in one way or another.

Sometimes you sound like a politician.

[VFTF1]

BUT WHY DO I NEED TO SAY SORRY? ALL I COULD SAY IS,

DUDE, WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU SETO?

Fine.

That's a nice start. And don't be mad if Seto doesn't think so.

Now - I'm sorry for ingoring all of the rest of the things you wrote - I did read them - but I think you miss the point. So I'm going to zero in on this:

WHAT COULD I SAY SORRY FOR? WHAT I DO TO HIM? OTHER THAN DISAGREE.

Here's the thing Memo.

When we hurt somebody's feelings, we usually don't mean to. Most people don't intentionally do bad things to other people - it's just that sometimes we don't all get along.

There is no way to PROVE that you "did" something to him - and that's not the point.

The point is - YOU HAVE A CHOICE.

The guy is hurt by you.

That's how he feels.

You can do 1 of 2 things:

A) Argue with his feelings like you are and try to prove that he has no reason to feel hurt by you

B) ACCEPT his feelings - even if you disagree with them - and apologize.

You don't apologize to people becaues you think you're wrong - you apologize to them because THEY think you did something bad to them.

That's how apologies work.

People are different - when somebody says "you hurt me" - you might think "huh? How!? What did I do!?"

But that doesn't change the fact that you hurt somebody's feelings.

Feelings and emotions are subjective - there's no point in trying to argue with them.

You can just inflame them - or you can douse the fire.

I think it's pointless for you to make ad hoc arguments about how you and Seto used to be friends etc etc - and it's useless for Seto to come in and give his view on that subject.

Whatever.

The problem is what is here and now - not how you got here.

Just give up and say sorry - even if you don't think there's any reason to apologize.

Heck - if you're right- if you have no reason to say sorry to him - then saying sorry will make you look all the cooler. It takes a big guy to say sorry EVEN when he didn't do anything bad.

Because it means you acknowledge that despite how you see the situation - Seto sees it differently and feels hurt.

That's the whole point.

The more you continue making arguments and going back and forth - the more you hurt yourself - just like Seto will hurt himself.

Because the thing with conflicts is that - like the Fatman from Maltese Falcon said:

"In the heat of conflict, men tend to forget where their best interests lie."

People don't care for endless quarrels and bickering that get pettier and pettier and pettier.

You are in a unique position here and now to end it.

Seto is too pissed off and too hurt and too upset and holds too many grudges to end it. He'd like nothing more than to demonstrate how horrible you are by prolonging this quarrel and showing the world what a terrible person you are because he feels hurt and doesn't trust you - and you are walking into that trap like a little kid into a candy shop.

Don't walk into that trap.

Stop arguing with him.

Go against what everybody expects of you.

Is your life defined by your being a mod at Robotech.com? Are you here in your official capacity? Are you a slave of the past? Of circumstances?

You're Memo. Every day is a new opportunity to define what that means.

If people have a bad view of you - then start giving them a new view - here and now.

Don't ask for reasons and don't be petty and question why should you apologize etc etc.

Just do it for the sake of being the one to end this and open up something new.

You're posting in the M7 thread and reading it- cool.

You and JasonC are on good talking terms - cool.

Exo wrote something funny in the thread about the convention idea you posted. - cool.

You're getting a LOT of good will here.

Don't waste it.

So Seto is being sore. Fine. Big deal.

Be better than that and forget all of your "self-interest" that is short terms and petty and short sighted.

Do what is in your long term self interest. Open a new chapter and erase what the old Memo means and show peope you can adapt, change, grow and be bigger than all of that.

Again - you have a golden opportunity. Be bold - take a big risk. Don't hold back, kick reason to the curve and do the impossible as they say in Gurren Lagann.

If you don't - you will forever be defined by a petty pointless and meaningless quarrel that does you no good whatsoever.

Pete

[MEMO1DOMINION]

VT

............... ME A POLITICIAN?

Seto is too pissed off and too hurt and too upset and holds too many grudges to end it. He'd like nothing more than to demonstrate how horrible you are by prolonging this quarrel and showing the world what a terrible person you are because he feels hurt and doesn't trust you - and you are walking into that trap like a little kid into a candy shop.

SETO, SORRY THAT I COULD NOT MAKE IT BETTER. NOT ABOUT RT OR MW OR RTX.. JUST GET TO KNOW EACH OTHER MORE.

SETO REMINDS ME OF SOLSCUD

HAHAHA, THOSE WERE THE DAYS. HEAD ON WE WENT BUT TOOK A MW CON TO MEET AND AND START HANGING OUT. DONT REMEMBER WHAT WE ARGUED ABOUT BUT I KNOW IT WAS MUCH WORSE THAN SETO IS NOW. AH.. GOOD OLE 2002. I RESPECT THAT GUY A LOT. EXCEPT EXO.

[Seto Kaiba]

I think it's pointless for you to make ad hoc arguments about how you and Seto used to be friends etc etc - and it's useless for Seto to come in and give his view on that subject.

Clearly... you haven't listened to a goddamn thing I've said.

Seto is too pissed off and too hurt and too upset and holds too many grudges to end it. He'd like nothing more than to demonstrate how horrible you are by prolonging this quarrel and showing the world what a terrible person you are because he feels hurt and doesn't trust you - and you are walking into that trap like a little kid into a candy shop.

Pete, I know you think you're doing something profound here, but you're thinking about this a little TOO hard and starting to see things that aren't there. This is not, nor has it ever been, about hurt feelings or any of that emotional BS. This isn't anything against MEMO as a person either. What this IS about is finding MEMO's abuse of his authority to censor opinions, silence dissent, and willfully spread misinformation objectionable. This has nothing to do with feelings and everything to do with how he does his job as a moderator and the negative impact his behavior is having on the entire Robotech fandom.

You're trying to make this into a personal grievance when it isn't one.

Now, can we PLEASE get back to a reasonable topic instead of all this faux touchy-feely BS?

Edited December 10, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[MEMO1DOMINION]

RAISES HAND:

SETO, I WILL NEVER USE YOUR NAME AGAIN IN VAIN OR TO FINGER POINT OR MAKE YOU PART OF ANYTHING SHAMEFULL.

I NEED A BEER...

[VFTF1]

VT

............... ME A POLITICIAN?

SETO, SORRY THAT I COULD NOT MAKE IT BETTER. NOT ABOUT RT OR MW OR RTX.. JUST GET TO KNOW EACH OTHER MORE.

SETO REMINDS ME OF SOLSCUD

HAHAHA, THOSE WERE THE DAYS. HEAD ON WE WENT BUT TOOK A MW CON TO MEET AND AND START HANGING OUT. DONT REMEMBER WHAT WE ARGUED ABOUT BUT I KNOW IT WAS MUCH WORSE THAN SETO IS NOW. AH.. GOOD OLE 2002. I RESPECT THAT GUY A LOT. EXCEPT EXO.

Yay! Good job Memo

Now - step 2:

Don't be mad if Seto doesn't respond by accepting your apology right away. Let it hang there.

I recommend that you now stop arguing with him about all of the past bad things and explore all of the other threads at MW that you might find interesting. Hang out in the M7 thread with us, and hang out in any other thread that you might be interested in.

Don't let your self get pulled into any fights about the past.

Don't expect reciprocation for your nice apology right away. You did a nice thing and now let's all play together in the other threads and have fun.

Meanwhile - I would like to suggest to Seto and Robowell and everybody else - can we at least NOT argue any more about this? If Memo is willing to stop pressing his point, to say sorry (even if it's in his own way and even if you probably think it's insufficient) - then can we move on?

Let's talk about Robotech in this thread and let's not bad mouth Memo any more as long as he's here on MW and playing with us in other threads.

Look at it from Memo's point of view guys:

We've been making fun of Memo for the last 40 pages.

The dude came into this thread a few months ago and we hounded him and gave him a rough time - he ran away.

Now - Memo is not running - I don't think he is.

That's good.

Let's leave him alone please - let him hang out with us here on MW.

You don't have to believe him, trust him or think his apology was at the level of Pope John Paul the II love of human beings.

Just accept that he seems to be trying and let's see where it goes.

But don't fan the flames.

Please.

Pete

[MEMO1DOMINION]

HOW DO YOU DO THAT VT?

I MEAN QUOTE SOMEONE WITH TIME AND NAME. I JUST COPY AND PASTE. AND THEN HIGHLIGHT AND QUOTE.

ALSO, TO GET BACK ON TOPIC...

BESIDES THE HG/MECHA GUYS COURT BATTLE IN U.SA.

DID ANYONE CHANGE THE RULING SINCE THEN?

[VFTF1]

Seto:

Clearly... you haven't listened to a goddamn thing I've said.

I have read all of your posts Seto. Seriously. If you feel like the fact that I haven't written 10 pages commentaries on them means I've ignored them: not true. My silence about them is a sign that I AGREE and have nothing to add.

Nobody doubts your version of events.

That's not the point.

Nobody doubts Hitler invaded Poland either. But it would be pretty stupid to say that when Germans and Polish people sit down and have a beer together, it's because they've forgotten history or ignore it.

Same thing applies here.

You win. You're right. The policies at rt.com suck, the censorship sucks etc etc etc. Memo was a big part of that.

But Memo isn't a computer virus - he's a person.

He's here now and he's taking some steps. He's walking into the lions den.

I don't expect you to forgive and forget - but I personally feel there is no reason to tar and feather him. He didn't have to come here, he did. So - now that he's here - I can't make fun of him or call him a 100% bad dude.

If Memo were truly a big time a-hole - he wouldn't be participating in a thread where so many people have so much bad views of him.

What this IS about is finding MEMO's abuse of his authority to censor opinions, silence dissent, and willfully spread misinformation objectionable. This has nothing to do with feelings and everything to do with how he does his job as a moderator and the negative impact his behavior is having on the entire Robotech fandom.

You're trying to make this into a personal grievance when it isn't one.

Now, can we PLEASE get back to a reasonable topic instead of all this faux touchy-feely BS?

I know. We know.

You might think it's faux touchy-feely BS but I think it's better than all the back-and-forth BS.

No sense re-hashing the argument. Memo saying sorry doesn't erase the past - it just stops repeating the past ad-infinitum into the future.

Not trying to be profound.

But do you seriously think that once Memo is here that we should let this thread and this board descend into a huge quarrel?

The guy came here, he said sorry - let's see what happens. We have 39 pages about why Memo sucks. This thread is not going to disappear. Let's see what the next pages will be about now that Memo's here - let's see if the next pages can be about something else...

Like maybe about ROBOTECH? Like the thread topic says.

SETO, I WILL NEVER USE YOUR NAME AGAIN IN VAIN OR TO FINGER POINT OR MAKE YOU PART OF ANYTHING SHAMEFULL.

Very nice reaction.

Pete

[Einherjar]

VT

............... ME A POLITICIAN?

Seriously? You don't see it in what you've been doing for a while now? Fine, whatever.

Just one word Memo, "fandom politics," remember that?

BESIDES THE HG/MECHA GUYS COURT BATTLE IN U.SA.

DID ANYONE CHANGE THE RULING SINCE THEN?

Ask your contacts in HG, since they're a big part of it and you're really close to them.

Edited December 10, 2009 by Einherjar

[Seto Kaiba]

BESIDES THE HG/MECHA GUYS COURT BATTLE IN U.SA.

DID ANYONE CHANGE THE RULING SINCE THEN?

Which court ruling(s) are you referring to? None of the Japanese court rulings have been overturned, so Big West/Studio Nue still own the copyrighted intellectual property of the Macross series, the right to create derivatives based on it, and the franchise as a whole, and Tatsunoko still owns the copyright on the footage they created for the original Macross TV series but not the intellectual property contained within (as per the '03 ruling).

To the best of my knowledge, nobody has challenged Harmony Gold et. al. v. FASA et. al. either... though it is quite possible that such a thing is underway and that neither party has publicized it because they're hoping for a settlement rather than a ruling handed down by a judge.

Very nice reaction.

I'm not convinced it's not sarcasm.

Edited December 10, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[MEMO1DOMINION]

EIN

Ask your contacts in HG, since they're a big part of it and you're really close to them.

THERE IS A LINE BETWEEN FRIEND AND WORK RELATIONS.

I GUESS IT'S A NO.

[MEMO1DOMINION]

SETO

To the best of my knowledge, nobody has challenged Harmony Gold et. al. v. FASA et. al. either...

TILL THEN, THE COURT OF THIS LAND STANDS. (U.S.A.)

AND FOR ANYONE TO CHANGE HG STANCE ON IT, THEY NEED TO OVERTURN THAT COURT DECISION.

though it is quite possible that such a thing is underway and that neither party has publicized it because they're hoping for a settlement rather than a ruling handed down by a judge.

SPECULATIVE.

Edited December 10, 2009 by MEMO1DOMINION

[Jasonc]

Take your fans back - they obviously have a lot of hurt over getting banned.

If I was a Robotech fan - I would be pissed too, because I'd probably PREFER to write about Robotech on the Robotech website instead of in a dinky thread on MW.

But you banned them. This is the only place they have left.

It's not about Macross Purist/Robotech fan - Seto didn't sign up to Robotech.com to troll. Come on. Be serious. You've read the guys' posts there - trolls don't post long well reasoned treatises.

While I was on rt.com as a fan, I was on here roughly the same time, as a fan. I could have many reasons to be pissed at the staff for them demoting, and turning a month ban into a perma ban, but the truth is, I could careless, andall it really did was give me reasons to speak my mind. I've been a pretty strong member here, and always will be. Even when I was a mod over there.

What could be interesting, and a big help to both sides is, if Memo and Seto agree, Memo or Seto, post up the actual comments that got Seto banned from either site, posts that led up to it, and dissect each post. Then compare it to those that have other "offensive" posts, compare those to Seto's, and analyze why those are unbanned, and really get to the issue.

Memo, I think the thing you need to realize, is that you and Maverick have given the impression, amongst many, that you both abuse the mod powers you have. It's not just amongst members here, who for the most part, just talk about it here only because it affects a couple here, but amongst other Robotech fans. The feeling across a few boards, is that if these members disagree with you, even if not in hostile manner. Since these members don't have many sites of interest to go to, have a civil discussion about it here. Your chance to prove those wrong about what's been observed and said could be done here. Memo, I know you don't have to, but since quite a few of the rt.com members you and Maverick helped ban are here, this should be a good place, especially since the topic can be discussed freely.

I'd say that the issues should be discussed in a rational, civilized manner, without the flaming and over the top name calling that can arouse in such a proposal.

[VFTF1]

Seto:

I'm not convinced it's not sarcasm.

Of course you're not. You think I am? But would you prefer that he keep trying to prove how you deserved to be banned etc etc etc?

Seto - look at it this way dude: I repeat - we have 39 pages - this entire thread can actually be labeled "The Seto comes to tell us how unjust robotech.com is and we all lay it on and spit on robotech.com and Memo and all of those crazy fcukers thread."

Seriously. You can doubt Memo - but do you doubt ME? Do you think I'm not being sincere?

Look where Memo is posting. He's basically arrived at www.Memoscuksballs.com and seems to be posting and not going anywhere and trying to get along with us.

Take that into account.

Or here's another way to think of it:

MEMO IS ON YOUR TURF NOW SETO.

So - you think Memo is a terrible mod, you think he can't run a website worth jack? You think his way of moderating a conversation sucks bananas? You think he has no leadership skills?

Well ---

Who do you think has more authority in this thread ? YOU or Memo?

I wager that in this thread, you have the backing of EVERYBODY and Memo has NOBODY to back him - NOBODY.

Yet he posts.

So - what are you going to do?

You want to prove that the way Memo ran things was lame - prove it by not arguing with him in this thread, prove it by demonstrating how we do things here. Prove it by posting some of those great argumens you always posted in robotech.com and posted here as well.

Nobody is going to ban you here. Memo can't do anything to you here but try to argue with your logic and your facts.

So - let's show Memo how it should be done.

Better yet - YOU be an example to Memo and show him how its' done. Be kind to the guy who was totally horrible to you because now you have the power and he doesn't.

That's all I'm saying.

Pete

[Seto Kaiba]

TILL THEN, THE COURT OF THIS LAND STANDS. (U.S.A.)

AND FOR ANYONE TO CHANGE HG STANCE ON IT, THEY NEED TO OVERTURN THAT COURT DECISION.

It's misinformed statements like this one that make it very difficult to take your argument seriously... you're not doing your homework before you post.

Harmony Gold et. al. v. FASA et. al. was a lawsuit prompted by a violation of the merchandising rights Harmony Gold acquired from Tatsunoko under license. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the intellectual property rights to the series. Also, as I have repeatedly reminded you, the Japanese court rulings are rulings on ownership of copyrights, and those copyrights are protected by international law. I will also remind you that US copyright law firmly establishes that copyrights on derivative works only cover material which was not part of the original work, and does not grant the author of the derivative work any rights to or ownership of the original work, and thus Harmony Gold's copyright on the Robotech adaptation doesn't give them any rights to the content of the original work. Additionally, please recall that Carl Macek has gone on record to say that Harmony Gold could not use the Mikimoto character designs of the original Macross series, and Harmony Gold has never EVER offered any statement that contradicts that.

Edited December 10, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[MEMO1DOMINION]

SETO

Also, as I have repeatedly reminded you, the Japanese court rulings are rulings on ownership of copyrights, and those copyrights are protected by international law. I will also remind you that US copyright law firmly establishes that copyrights on derivative works only cover material which was not part of the original work, and does not grant the author of the derivative work any rights to or ownership of the original work. Additionally, please recall that Carl Macek has gone on record to say that Harmony Gold could not use the Mikimoto character designs of the original Macross series, and Harmony Gold has never EVER offered any statement that contradicts that.

LET SAY THIS IS ALL TRUE. JUST FOR ARGUMENT..

WOULD IT NOT BE EASY FOR THE COURT DECISION TO BE OVERTURNED? OR SOMEONE OR COMPANY TO TRY?

WOULD MAKE THAT ARGUMENT..FEASIBLE?

[Ghost Train]

0MG N0 ON3 H4S P0ST3D FOR 10 M1NUT3S!!!! WTF!!!!!!!!!

[VF5SS]

Court decisions cannot undo history. As Seto stated, Tatsunoko was never involved with the creation of Macross so all of the images used to create it and the IP rights are wholly owned by Big West.