justvinnie Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 Didn't want to start a thread about this. Interesting to be sure... http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/12/8_reas...han_macross.php Macross will always be better than Robotech for the simple reason that it was the original. Without Macross there is no Robotech. I liked Robotech as a kid but jumped ship when I saw the original. vinnie
VFTF1 Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 (edited) Re: 8 reasons Robotech is Better than Macross: Part 1: We still find their original relationship more plausible in Robotech than in Macross, though. Why? Because Max is voiced by Cam Clarke, the distinctively talented voice actor behind Leonardo of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Liquid Snake in the Metal Gear Solid series, and about a billion other roles in cartoons and video games. We doubt there's a man or woman alive who wouldn't betray his or her deepest cultural values and military loyalties if Cam Clarke asked it. Who the f@ck is Cam Clarke? Didn't he turn into Superman or something? Anyways - so you think the english voice actor does better speaking english than the Japanese voice actor. Wow. That's almost as intelligent as this: Reduced to a sobbing, easily married wreck, former hardened combat pilot Mirya is soon wearing pink dresses and popping out Max's kids. Their courtship was less demeaning in the Macross: Do You Remember Love? a) how is it demeaning to go from a murderer to a mother? From someone who indiscriminately takes life to someone who gives life? b) in Macross - she still kicks ass (witness Macross 7) anyways. Oh - but the guy who wrote this article has never watched Macross. Witness in fact that he gives a Youtube clip from Robotech. Where's the corresponding clip from Macross for comparisson? Illegal to put up a link to it eh? Shucks.... Robotech Is Longer Some fans will accuse us of cheating here. "Well, of COURSE Robotech was longer," they'll object. "Robotech was three different, unrelated anime series, and Macross was only one!" The only Macross fans that will accuse you of these are Robotech fans who think that "Macross" is part one of the Robotech saga, and they like that part the best. Either that or retards. Robotech is NOT longer!! Macross is longer because it consists of SDFM TV, DYRL, MII, M+,M7,MF and the M7 OVAs. on to the next stupid reason... Has Less Ridiculous Names While Roy Fokker's name is pretty much pronounced the same in both Robotech and Macross (since it's a reference to the airplane manufacturer), far too many official Macross products spell it "Roy Focker." As much as we would've liked to see Harmony Gold slip that one past parents of the 1980s and sell kids all sorts of official Roy Focker merchandise, we still defer to Robotech's spelling, as do many Macross fans who aren't completely insane. Are these reason supposed to be whitty? Are they supposed to be humerous? Because they fall flat. HAH HAH HAH! THOSE JAPANESE PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT NAMES THAT SOUND FUNNY! HAHA HAHA HAHAH! LOOK HOW THEY SPELLED ICHIJO! HA HA HA! I'VE NEVER HEARD OF SOMEONE NAMED WITH THAT FUNNY NAME! HAH HAH HAH! WELL - IN KINDERGARTEN WE HAD ONE FORIEGN SOUNDING KID FROM AN IMMIGRANT FAMILY NAME JOSE! BUT THEY WAY HE SAID IT WAS "HOSE" HA HAH HA! BUT WE ALL CALLED HIM JOSE! HAH HAH HAH HAH WITH THE "J" YOU KNOW !! HA HAH HAH! MAKING FUN OF FORIEGNERS IS SO FUNNY ! HAH HAHAH HAHAHA!! IT'S SO FUN THAT I STILL DO IT TODAY! HAH AHHAH HAHA! oh and HAH HAH HAH HAH! WHEN I WAS TWELVE AND LEARNED THAT MY PENIS DID MORE THAN JUST PEE, I LAUGHED AT THE NAME ROY FOCKER! GET IT? FOCKER! HAH HAH HAH! THOSE JAPANESE PEOPLE ARE ALL PEDOPHILES!! LOOK AT THE NAME THEY GAVE HIM! HAH HAH HAH! I'M STILL AMAZED THAT SOME WORDS HAVE SEXUAL ALLUSIONS!! HAH HAH HAH! ...WAIT? DID I JUST USE THE WORD "ALLUSIONS" ? THAT'S NOT EVEN IN MY VOCABULARLY...HAH HAH HAH! ....Next post continues.... Edited December 5, 2009 by VFTF1
VFTF1 Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 (edited) Re: 8 reasons Robotech is Better than Macross: PART II CONTINUED... moving on... Robotech Has More Empowered Women By empowered he means: WOMEN WHO CAN MURDER JUST AS GOOD AS MEN. because he says: As the first chunk of Robotech, Macross was sexist in restricting most of its female characters to non-combat roles. YEP! There you have it folks! THAT is what you get when you want equality of the sexes - you get people advocating for women to also get a chance to go murderin'! Damn is Macross Frontier dumb! In episode 12, when Ranka flew in and sang to the Zendradi to make them stop fighting - that was SO SEXIST! I mean - must women always be in these subordinate non-combat roles!? Must they always be soft and delicate!? Ranka should be given a mustache like Magnum PI, and fly in and BLOW THOSE FOCKERS AWAY!!! POW POW POW!! Only then will Macross achieve the non-discriminatory status of Robotech which teaches us that little girls can also smash brains and mangle people's gutts - JUST AS GOOD AS MEN! Of course - the fact is that Macross gives us the best kind of women - thoughtful, sexy, smart, and using their talents to promote peace and protect life. But I guess that's only good for people who aren't permanent residents of Bizzaro world. Next... Robotech Inspired Fewer Awful Videogames Notice how it doesn't say "Robotech Inspired more Awesome Videogames" I'll leave it to you to ponder the meaning of that. And if you have trouble - add this quote: While Robotech inspired fewer games, they're not half-bad That's great reasoning there Sherlock! Robotech is better than Macross because Macross had a ton of games made, some of which suck, while Robotech had far less games made, some of which suck a little bit. Really fockin' helping your side of the argument there pal!! Next... Robotech Inspired Fewer Awful Sequels Excuse me while I stop laughing.... The most recent sequels, Macross Zero and Macross Frontier, are indulgent, CG-heavy puffballs that are good only when jet-robots are blowing poo up or principal characters are dying valiantly to Yoko Kanno music. Frontier also has this thing, which throws us over to Robotech's side like nothing else. Yep - that's it in a nutshell. No point arguing with that brilliant and concise summary of the those shows. And what's REALLY bad about Macross Frontier and Macross Zero is that THERE ARE NO WOMEN PILOTING THOSE JET ROBOTS THAT BLOW SH!T UP!! IT'S SO SEXIST!! Next... OH! WAIT FOR IT! THIS IS THE BEST REASON! IT'S AT #2 .....SO IT'S GONNA BURN!! HERE IT COMES: Robotech Didn't Result in Clash of the Bionoids Oh BUT WAIT! NEITHER DID MACROSS!!!! Oh sh!t!!! That makes this a non sequetor!! (is that how you spell it?) You know - it makes this a meaningless reason. HERE - LOOK: ROBOTECH IS BETTER THAN MACROSS BECAUSE IT DIDN'T RESULT IN TIGER WOODS CAR CRASH ROBOTECH IS BETTER THAN MACRSS BECAUSE IT DIDN'T RESULT IN TERMINATOR:SALVATION ROBOTECH IS BETTER THAN MACROSS BECAUSE IT DIDN'T RESULT IN SESEAME STREET ROBOTECH IS BETTER THAN MACROSS BECAUSE IT DIDN'T RESULT IN BRITNEY SPEAERS RESUMING HER CAREER Do you see my point here? If you ever think Robotech is the worst thing that happened to Macross, just crank up the volume and watch whiny-voiced Hikaru and drunk, half-Australian Roy Focker in action. Um... Wouldn't it be a better idea to just WATCH DYRL!?!??!?!?! Next... THE NUMBER ONE REASON: Robotech Has Better Theme Music For proof - he gives a Youtube link to the opening theme. Right - anybody want to send this guy some compilation music by May'N, Megumi, Marii Ijima, Yoshiki Fukayama etc? How many concerts have the Robotech music creators done for hords of screaming fans? How many CDs have they sold? And popularity aside --- how can you even compare the music scores? Oh... But this dude seems to only really be talking about the opening theme. whatever. This guy has the intelligence of used toilet paper. Pete Edited December 5, 2009 by VFTF1
Einherjar Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 What the heck is the big deal with Topless Robot here? It looks more like a satire site just like The Onion and Something Awful.
HappyPenguins Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 What the heck is the big deal with Topless Robot here? It looks more like a satire site just like The Onion and Something Awful. This!
Gubaba Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 What the heck is the big deal with Topless Robot here? It looks more like a satire site just like The Onion and Something Awful. Funnily enough, while reading this article, I was reminded of the Something Awful article where they tried to trash Blonde on Blonde, but it was pretty clear that they'd never actually listened to it. I think the same inference can be applied here.
Keith Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 The true number one reason why Robotech is better than Macross: -Because Robotech fans can't cope with the fact that their dead pirated franchise of choice shafs them at every opportunity, while Macross fans are basking in the glory of regular every few year doses of awesome!
Einherjar Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 (edited) And this whole time The Office was real. http://www.theonion.com/content/news_brief..._office_ends_as They were both intentional... maybe. Edited December 5, 2009 by Einherjar
Penguin Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 Wow. After reading that article, I'm all conflicted, on a number of levels. Not about Robotech vs. Macross per se, but rather... - There's a deep philosophical conflict between my love of the free sharing of information encouraged by the internet and a deep, abiding desire to punish the egos of people so that they realize that just because they can publish their opinion doesn't mean said opinion is meaningful, valuable, or worth uttering in the first place, and they should be ashamed for even considering airing it in public. - My inner literary geek is desparately trying to construct a minutely detailed deconstruction of the entire article and its inability to actually make any sensible arguments, restrained by my inner censor and the simple recognition that the people who most needed to read it wouldn't understand it. - The engineer in me is using the power consumption of my monitor, the time I spent reading the article, and my power utility's average kWh price so that I can figure out how much to bill the author for the power wasted reading that tripe. Thankfully, that's reduced to idle amusement by the absurdity of the idea, 'cause I love absurdities. - My love of absurdity is clashing with my disgust for inanity with regards to the article in general. Really, it's a miracle I'm not lying a pseudo-schizophrenic coma by all this inner turmoil in my poor little brain.
anime52k8 Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 Wow. After reading that article, I'm all conflicted, on a number of levels. Not about Robotech vs. Macross per se, but rather... - There's a deep philosophical conflict between my love of the free sharing of information encouraged by the internet and a deep, abiding desire to punish the egos of people so that they realize that just because they can publish their opinion doesn't mean said opinion is meaningful, valuable, or worth uttering in the first place, and they should be ashamed for even considering airing it in public. - My inner literary geek is desparately trying to construct a minutely detailed deconstruction of the entire article and its inability to actually make any sensible arguments, restrained by my inner censor and the simple recognition that the people who most needed to read it wouldn't understand it. - The engineer in me is using the power consumption of my monitor, the time I spent reading the article, and my power utility's average kWh price so that I can figure out how much to bill the author for the power wasted reading that tripe. Thankfully, that's reduced to idle amusement by the absurdity of the idea, 'cause I love absurdities. - My love of absurdity is clashing with my disgust for inanity with regards to the article in general. Really, it's a miracle I'm not lying a pseudo-schizophrenic coma by all this inner turmoil in my poor little brain. dude, it's 1am here and I'm about to fall asleep, what?
MastaEgg Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 (edited) Didn't want to start a thread about this. Interesting to be sure... http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/12/8_reas...han_macross.php Is it that "professional anime fan" site again? I remember them bashing macross when those live action commercials were released. More like professionally ignorant. Edited December 5, 2009 by MastaEgg
taksraven Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 Is it that "professional anime fan" site again? I remember them bashing macross when those live action commercials were released. More like professionally ignorant. Yeah, there is no need to get worked up about turdburgers like those at Topless Robot. They could only come up with 8 reasons anyway, too much to ask for them to do a top ten. Taksraven
hulagu Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 (edited) And what's REALLY bad about Macross Frontier and Macross Zero is that THERE ARE NO WOMEN PILOTING THOSE JET ROBOTS THAT BLOW SH!T UP!! IT'S SO SEXIST!! Umm, what? Even that isn't even true. Are we forgetting berserker Super Pack Klan Klang and the lovably psychotic Ms. Polanski? Not to mention that the ultimate mecha superweapon pilots of both series are women? Edited December 5, 2009 by hulagu
VFTF1 Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 Oh yeah - you're right Toplessrobot's critique is so bad, it's not even possible to make fun of... Pete
Wanzerfan Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 It was a MkII monster. Ep, 32 around 16:20 Silly me, I went by the novels. The authors probably thought it was more appropriate for him to ride an OBP. Whoops.
Funkenstein Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 The blog post is actually enlightening. What you see is the kind of personality that is typical with a lot of Robotech non-anime fans. Certain things come up that should be noted: Sexual discomfort: Some fans of RT have discomfort at displays of sexuality or sensuality. This has more to do with personal ideology than quality of the show. This is why they are more comfortable with cartoonish diplays (like Shadow Chronicles) of sexuality but more uncomfortable with more nuanced approaches. (Maybe, Im really just pulling stuff out of the air) Genre: RT fans are mostly space opera fans, where as Macross fans are mostly Mecha/Music/Everything else. Considering that the point of Macross was that there are individual lives involved in the midst of war, and that people will continue living on, that may be something not as action soaked as pewpew space planes and explosions. RT fans are heavily nostalgic because they never got anything new after the originals. Where as Macross fans (hopefully) recognize the (deep faults at some points) of SDF Macross but can appreciate newer iterations. This is the same with the developers, who appreciate their fans and desire to make the best possible product, where as HG doesn't seem to particularly care about Robotech nor the fans. RT fans are most likely the same people who felt ReBSG was a terrible show , as ReBSG took a much more personal perspective on war, like Macross did, as opposed to Old BSG which was making war seem fun and action packed like Robotech did.
VF5SS Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 This! Actually they're just a stupid hater page written by idiots who think they're funny. It doesn't even have a fraction of the charisma of Something Awful or the Onion.
VF5SS Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 Silly me, I went by the novels. The authors probably thought it was more appropriate for him to ride an OBP. Whoops. The novels are just fanfic written by people who didn't understand what they were seeing.
VFTF1 Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 There's certainly something to be said for your opinions Funk (quoted below). If it was just a one off article, then I wouldn't be so quick to agree, but there is a pattern. Look at Pizza the Hut's arguments, look at this article...every time you look to Robotech fans making arguments - you hear the same old same old about sexualization etc etc etc. I've even heard this view espoused by some Macross fans (guys) who suddenly feel uncomfortable with Macross Frontier because of all the stuff in there that is very appealing to girls. I of course think it's a wonderful achievement that they've been able to mix it up like that - to give something that manly men, womanly men, womanly women and manly women can all find appealing in the show. There really is something for everyone in there. Also - I am beginning to honestly believe that the biggest divide between Macross fans and Robotech fans IS ANIME. That is: Robotech fans, despite the fact that Robotech was supposed to "bring anime to America"...actually don't give a crap about anime. When I read them, the stuff they write - constantly comparing Robotech to SW, Star Trek etc - it's patently obvious that they have NO anime in their memories that they are referencing - that these guys aren't anime fans in general at all. Most Macross fans on this board have also watched a ton of other Japanese anime and understand the place of Macross in the broader otaku culture. Robotech fans don't - they don't have a clue. Their point of reference is something totally different - and so really, they can never communicate on equal footing with Macross fans because we're not talking in the same context. Pete The blog post is actually enlightening. What you see is the kind of personality that is typical with a lot of Robotech non-anime fans. Certain things come up that should be noted: Sexual discomfort: Some fans of RT have discomfort at displays of sexuality or sensuality. This has more to do with personal ideology than quality of the show. This is why they are more comfortable with cartoonish diplays (like Shadow Chronicles) of sexuality but more uncomfortable with more nuanced approaches. (Maybe, Im really just pulling stuff out of the air) Genre: RT fans are mostly space opera fans, where as Macross fans are mostly Mecha/Music/Everything else. Considering that the point of Macross was that there are individual lives involved in the midst of war, and that people will continue living on, that may be something not as action soaked as pewpew space planes and explosions. RT fans are heavily nostalgic because they never got anything new after the originals. Where as Macross fans (hopefully) recognize the (deep faults at some points) of SDF Macross but can appreciate newer iterations. This is the same with the developers, who appreciate their fans and desire to make the best possible product, where as HG doesn't seem to particularly care about Robotech nor the fans. RT fans are most likely the same people who felt ReBSG was a terrible show , as ReBSG took a much more personal perspective on war, like Macross did, as opposed to Old BSG which was making war seem fun and action packed like Robotech did.
jenius Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 (edited) As to the Robotech fans not caring about anime, I'm sure most have seen a smattering of other shows. I think it boils down more to the westernization present in Robotech. Robotech took three shows, none of which were a war over resources, and turned them ALL into a war over resources. That's about as American as Apple Pie and Manifest Destiny. That's why some RT fans can watch the originals and STILL prefer Robotech. That's also why RT gets compared to American SciFi more often than anime in these discussions. EDIT - I guess the original Southern Cross is kind of a war over resources... but that's a whole ball of odd. Edited December 5, 2009 by jenius
Gubaba Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 I think we're all missing the forest for the trees and avoiding the true question in all this: Just how long is the SDF-1???
VF5SS Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 (edited) Robotech took three shows, none of which were a war over resources, and turned them ALL into a war over resources. Exactly how much of that is even present in Robotech? Did they stuff the dialog with more references to resources or something? It seems like people are just taking random throw away dialog and inflating its importance. Then again, that's all Robotech has left these days. Edited December 5, 2009 by VF5SS
RDClip Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 I think we're all missing the forest for the trees and avoiding the true question in all this: Just how long is the SDF-1??? Well, they can't believe the line art, but everything animated must be true. Otherwise, how else could they canonize the VF-1R or the lasers shooting out of the sides of the nosecone. Of course it couldn't just be that Macross (or RT in their minds) was running on a shoestring budget and made animation mistakes.
VFTF1 Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 Just how long is the SDF-1??? ... I was trying to think of some funny way to respond to this...like writing "longer than Macross" ...but...there's no point. Instead - I'm going to ask a question: Why is this such a big issue for Robotech fans? And why do they never stick around long enough to explain their motivations? Pete
jenius Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 Exactly how much of that is even present in Robotech? Did they stuff the dialog with more references to resources or something? It seems like people are just taking random throw away dialog and inflating its importance. Then again, that's all Robotech has left these days. Uh, every time they say "Protoculture"
VFTF1 Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 Yeah - protoculture is the resource in Robotech - like Jenus says. And good point by the way about that - great point. Hadn't thought about that. Pete
Einherjar Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 (edited) And people said Robotech didn't have a Cold War political agenda (okay, that's enough of that from me). Just how long is the SDF-1??? Because this is Robotech and any material in Macross doesn't count, it's whatever the people running the asylum want it to be at any given moment. For their realism, lets make it 5-50km until the LAM or "new" production comes out. Edited December 5, 2009 by Einherjar
Gubaba Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 ... I was trying to think of some funny way to respond to this...like writing "longer than Macross" ...but...there's no point. Instead - I'm going to ask a question: Why is this such a big issue for Robotech fans? And why do they never stick around long enough to explain their motivations? Pete I don't know how the issue started, but it does indeed seem to be a big question among RT fans. I suspect that they don't want to go with the official stats, since those sometimes don't apply to RT (Mospeadas run on HBT, yet Cyclones run on Protoculture). In fact, according to Seto Kaiba, for the Southern Cross portion of the story, official stats are few and far between, and hardcore RT mechaheads have to guess what the sizes and capabilities of the mecha are. Some of them probably pushed it further than that and said, "Well, if we do that for Southern Cross, why not do it for Macross, too?" One widely-believed RT fan has apparently put the length at four miles. And Doug Bendo may not be alone in his misconception that the stats were created "after the fact" instead of being created FOR the animation and used IN the animation.
Einherjar Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 That brings up a very important thing to consider: who are the official tech experts regarding anything in Robotech these days? I really have no idea who that could be inside HG, and to me the only people who make an effort to come up with such things are the people in Palladium Books. But that stuff may only apply to the RPG they created.
Gubaba Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 That brings up a very important thing to consider: who are the official tech experts regarding anything in Robotech these days? I really have no idea who that could be inside HG, and to me the only people who make an effort to come up with such things are the people in Palladium Books. But that stuff may only apply to the RPG they created. According to Doug Bendo, the current expert is Doug Bendo.
Beltane70 Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 The worst thing that I've seen about Doug Bendo is the fact that his first name is Doug! It makes me so ashamed to share first names!
Freiflug88 Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 I think we're all missing the forest for the trees and avoiding the true question in all this: Just how long is the SDF-1??? Easy, its almost as long as my wave motion gun. No matter how big fans may think the SDF-1 appears it can never be longer then the sheets of 8.27 X 11.69 inches of paper it was drawn on.
VFTF1 Posted December 5, 2009 Posted December 5, 2009 Here's a good rule of thumb: Space ships in cartoons are always long enough to achieve their plot-objectives. Pete
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