HG and Robotech Debates

[Gubaba]

It's not just any two hour podcast Gubaba, as described on the talkshoe page it's:

The Official Podcast Headquarters of the Robotech Universe! An Open "plain talk" discussion on Robotech topics such as the storylines, Harmony Gold, the original Japanese Macross, Southern Cross, Mospeada, Robotech.com and more!

The kicker, Memo supports him, so it's possibly true to them at least.

And to touch on something Zen72 talked about a while back on his show about the non-existence of a Robotech Gospel, a recent 12/2/09 topic on the Robotech 00 Podcast is, I kid you not:

I talk about what how not to look at robotech and how too look at robotech:)

Hmmm...I tried to look at Doug's podcast this evening, but it said I had to be a Talkshoe member (and over 18) to access it. I don't really want to do that, so I guess this is where he and I part ways.

He really believes his own hype about "the face of the fandom," based on the fact that he sometimes gets more than 900 people listening (excuse me, I mean "lessoning") to his podcast.

I wonder how many of those people LIKE him, though.

As for how to look at Robotech, that's easy. If you frame it right, criticism can melt away. It's like in the Battlestar Galactica discussion. I've been watching the new show, and rewatching the old, and finding the old show to be dumb and boring, but a lot of people say, "Well, considering that it was on TV in the '70s, it was pretty good!" And yeah, there's something to be said for that. So if you compare Robotech to other badly written, badly acted travesties incorporating three separate mecha shows, one of which is Macross...well then, Robotech is top of that particular heap. In fact, I'd say that, in the history of mankind, Robotech is the best American production to combine Macross with Southern Cross and Mospeada, period.

And THAT'S how to look at Robotech!

But no, it's clear Doug wants to control the fandom, and steer them in the direction he wants them to go. But...

Look at the difference between JT, who, merely by being smart and humble and enthusiastic, has become something of leader of Robotech fandom, and he's declares he's NOT a leader. Then you have Doug, who makes a big deal about being THE #1 Robotech fan, the guy who knows everything and sees all, and he gets razzed at every turn.

There's a lesson there, I think.

[Seto Kaiba]

I realize I'm tempting the tl;dr gods with this one, so here we go...

I think that says more about Doug Bendo than about Macross Frontier.

Yes, it most certainly does... though perhaps the most telling part of this whole affair was that when he couldn't find any support for his argument on RobotechX, he resorted to scheduling a podcast rant about it for 10pm Thanksgiving Day, a time when he could be sure nobody would come to interrupt him. Then he fell back on saying everyone arguing against him was a pedophile and a "Macross Groupie" who, according to him, are all part of my "clique" of sycophants and yes-men. When that didn't work, he resorted to scheduling yet more emergency podcasts, but pre-recording them so no guests could chew him out on his own show.

What can we conclude from all of this? Doug Bendo is so deeply insecure that any challenge to his perceived authority and superiority eats away at him until he can't control himself and has to lash out.

(Actually, the "discussion" got pretty funny after a while. Doug Bendo is a proponent of not believing official stats, but rather going ONLY by what is on-screen (which led to, yes, an argument about the length of the SDF-1), and about Ranka he said, "She looks twelve, so she is twelve," pure and simple. So Viper put up the screenshot showing her date of birth, which Doug discounted. When I asked him how he could justify believing everything on-screen, yet not believing THAT, he said, "Nobody cares about that anymore, it's history" or something like that. Then he went and made a two hour podcast about it. )

Oh he was doing it well before then... when he tried (and failed) to prove that I didn't know anything about Macross soon after arriving on RobotechX, he insisted that I'd made the whole energy converting armor thing up. Then he went on to challenge the size of the SDF-1 (which seems to be all the rage with what's left of the Robotech lunatic fringe these days) claiming it was at least 4 miles long and trying to claim the official specs were all stuff made up post-facto and didn't mean anything. Then he started in with that whole Ranka's Age kick, which he's STILL on, claiming Ranka is twelve years old or less because he thinks she looks under twelve, despite being shown that both the animation and the dialogue establish Ranka is sixteen. He then tried to tell us all that the dialogue of the show doesn't matter, and it should be animation only that determines things because he claims to have watched the show and understood it perfectly without subtitles or a working knowledge of Japanese. He also briefly tried to dispute the size of the Zor Lords large ship from Southern Cross too, and made a bunch of claims about the Southern Cross Army using "reflex warheads" because their missiles and tank rounds make big explosions.

Oh, and it wasn't just one podcast about it, there were at least two two-hour podcasts on it, and one sixty minute podcast that touches on it briefly... and he's promised at least one more touching specifically on Macross Frontier episodes 24 and 25... so you can see just what kind of an insecure wackjob we're dealing with here.

I'm guessing you haven't heard his latest podcast, where in an effort to refute us all over the whole Ranka issue and his multiply-refuted claims of Robtoech's superiority he drags his girlfriend onto the show and walks her through a set of answers so obviously coached that it's almost painful. He also takes the time to proclaim himself to be not only the #1 Robotech fan on the net, but also the #1 authority on Robotech in the world. Talk about delusions of grandeur.

These poor people with nothing to do except try to rationalize something that makes no sense, then try to substantiate it as to why an almost 30 year old series is better. What makes it even more funny is the fact that it's all done for a couple fans who actually care enough to keep up with it. I like keeping up with it for the sake of a good laugh, while I'm sure those in the other boat are really trying to be as serious as can be about all this. Some RT fan's very existence within the fandom just scream "run for your lives" when they talk, or "damaged goods". Thanks for providing the comic relief.

Dude, this is only the tip of the comedy iceberg. Bendo's been living up to his legendarily bad reputation, frothing at the mouth and making a fool of himself without realizing that NOBODY takes him seriously but himself.

What's REALLY funny is that despite how he professes to hate and despise us, he keeps trying get us on his show as guests, which has NEVER ended well for him. His usual routine is to challenge something someone says, then blast them with insults and say "Well, if you wanna confront me, come do it on my next podcast episode!".

Doug Bendo must be very popular with women. "Hey - who cares if you're 40? You look 30, so you ARE 30!" They would love that line of reasoning...

Actually, during the whole Ranka thing Bendo admitted that he's frequently hit on underage girls in their mid teens... so I'd doubt he ends up in that situation very often.

Besides - that's also an incredibley narrow minded way of looking at Macross Frontier. I mean - nudity is not used randomly. There are contexts for it, just like there are contexts for the violence.

Well, the whole reason he got on the subject to begin with was because Robelwell202 and I were criticizing Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles (a film Bendo ALSO professes to hate) and he immediately jumped to the movie's defense by claiming we were all pedophiles and that Ranka was 12 years old after I posted that "Let them eat Cheesecake" montage I made for the last thread and pointed out how Shadow Chronicles was so mediocre the best Tommy could do was try to hold the audience's attention with T&A. He REALLY went off the deep end when I pointed out that Ariel, who he was using as an example of "mature" sex appeal is only 16 months old at the official date given for the events of the movie.

Oh - and of course I assume Doug Bendo (like most people who make this "eeww! pedophilia!" argument) has no problem with the violence. The violence is just fine and dandy. It's the love and sex that's bad. This is why Robotech is superior - it gets rid of all that pedophile stuff and just focuses on blowing people up.

Oh yes, on that Thanksgiving Day podcast he announced that if he ever met Robelwell or I in person, he would "knock our teeth out" and "beat our asses". On more than one occasion he's threatened his girlfriend with a beating on the air, he's threatened to urinate on her at least once while recording his show, and I understand in his last episode he actually does haul off and hit her during the recording.

Quite disturbing, actually... I understand many people lodged complaints with TalkShoe after that came to light.

Still - it's not surprising. What else can he argue? I mean - in order to prove that Robotech is better than Macross Frontier, you DO have to misrepresent the latter. You can't compare them on their merits, so you need to try to create the impression that Macross Frontier is child pornography.

Exactly right... though I've noticed a trend when it comes to members of the Robotech lunatic fringe attacking Macross Frontier... it's ALWAYS something sexual. When PTH first started attacking it on RobotechX, he jumped right to claiming the series was "pro-gay propaganda", that Bobby was an attempt to force a homosexual character on the audience, and that Alto was a homosexual cross-dresser. When Bendo attacked it, he fixated on the brief moment where Ranka appears to be naked and labeled the entire series child pornography.

Hmmm...I tried to look at Doug's podcast this evening, but it said I had to be a Talkshoe member (and over 18) to access it. I don't really want to do that, so I guess this is where he and I part ways.

Actually, during the recording of last Sunday's episode wherein Doug challenged us to respond to an libelous, extremely profane rant he put up about us and the whole Ranka thing, he not only had a 100% hostile audience for the entire show, TalkShoe Security showed up shortly after the show started and DEMANDED he change the show's rating to EL (Explicit Language), so now the show is only accessible to TalkShoe members aged 18+.

He really believes his own hype about "the face of the fandom," based on the fact that he sometimes gets more than 900 people listening (excuse me, I mean "lessoning") to his podcast.

I wonder how many of those people LIKE him, though.

I have reason to suspect that most of those are not even actually listeners, but are the end result of search engine bots spidering the page repeatedly due to all the linkspamming he's done on RobotechX and other websites.

But no, it's clear Doug wants to control the fandom, and steer them in the direction he wants them to go. But...

Look at the difference between JT, who, merely by being smart and humble and enthusiastic, has become something of leader of Robotech fandom, and he's declares he's NOT a leader. Then you have Doug, who makes a big deal about being THE #1 Robotech fan, the guy who knows everything and sees all, and he gets razzed at every turn.

Well yes, he's been proclaiming himself to be the "Official" podcast headquarters of the fandom, even though he freely admits that that's a self-issued title and he's operating with no official sanction. In fact, according to him Harmony Gold has apparently FORBIDDEN employees to appear on his podcast, claiming that he frequently hears from people who say they'd love to come on his show but are afraid of retribution from the management. How much of that is actually true is anybody's guess (but skepticism is wise considering the majority of the claims Bendo makes are provably false).

JT, on the other hand, has apparently not only acquired a reasonable following of his own and earned the enmity of the lunatic fringe with his well-reasoned and generally objective view of the franchise, but has also garnered the attention of voice actors and the like as a potentially favorable podcast to grant reviews to. I say that's not just good for him, but for the entirety of what's left of the Robotech fanbase, since their last impartial voice has kind of petered out, leaving them in the hands of the lunatic fringe (Robotech Fan) and the useless sycophants (RDF Underground, Space Station Liberty).

[VFTF1]

Oh yes, on that Thanksgiving Day podcast he announced that if he ever met Robelwell or I in person, he would "knock our teeth out" and "beat our asses". On more than one occasion he's threatened his girlfriend with a beating on the air, he's threatened to urinate on her at least once while recording his show, and I understand in his last episode he actually does haul off and hit her during the recording.

That's AWESOME!!

No wonder this dude is so popular! He's like the Jerry Springer of Macross! I like the sound of this. Sadly, the one and only pod-cast of his I watched, from a long time ago - was so boring. He was just sitting at his desk, there was a screen saver or something with some Robotech stuff on it, and he was just kind of mumbling.

I didn't watch anything after that - but you guys keep bringing up this exciting info! Sounds like a really cool podcast!

when it comes to members of the Robotech lunatic fringe attacking Macross Frontier... it's ALWAYS something sexual. When PTH first started attacking it on RobotechX, he jumped right to claiming the series was "pro-gay propaganda", that Bobby was an attempt to force a homosexual character on the audience, and that Alto was a homosexual cross-dresser. When Bendo attacked it, he fixated on the brief moment where Ranka appears to be naked and labeled the entire series child pornography.

Well - again - this just says more about them, than about the particular series they are discussing.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't particularly like it when movies, tv shows etc go the PC route of always having the token black guy, the token gay guy, the token lesbian couple bringing up the token down syndrome baby etc etc etc.

On the other hand - there is something to be said for having fresh, dynamic and INTERESTING characters. There is also something to be said for having an open dialogue about gender roles and what they mean.

There are people on the fringes who are always craptastically bad on these subjects. Gay-bashers and "feminists" - anybody who has an agenda rather thoughtless prejudice...

I have reason to suspect that most of those are not even actually listeners, but are the end result of search engine bots spidering the page repeatedly due to all the linkspamming he's done on RobotechX and other websites.

And I have reason to suspect that if he really theatens to beat people up and pee on his girlfriend during the podcast - those 900 people show not giving a damn what Robotech or Macross is, but just wanting to see him swear, pee on people and point fingers at naked girls in asian cartoons.

That would be enough to atract an audience.

Pete

[Robelwell202]

I might be the catalyst that started the whole 'Ranka is naked in outer space' deal...

See, in response to a rather idiotic post made on RTX (It was either Bendo or 'Ghost Maker'/PTH) about how well done the animation in RT:TSC was, I posted YouTube links for two AMVs, one showing space-combat footage from RT:TSC, and the other showing combat from MacF. I even went so far as to suggest that the viewers turn thier volume down, and just look at the offered video. I'll post links for those who are interested.

RT:TSC

Macross Frontier

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLBbKF4PMuA

Now, when these links were posted, Doug went off, starting the idiotic argument about MacF's 'naked child in outer space' content. The rest, as they say, is history.

There's one fact that I find completely hillarious. When Seto Kaiba and I went on his show the last time, I threw an amazingly obvious fact in Doug's face. He never read the subs for whatever version of MacF he watched. Apparently, he's so amazingly amazing that he can discern the entire meaning and content of a Japanese show in RAW form! He doesn't need a fluency in Japanese, and he doesn't need to read the subtitles!

For myself, I prefer to think that he's so functionally illiterate that he CAN'T read the subs. It's the same reason he uses MS-Sam to read the posts that Seto and I throw up on RTX. There's just too many multi-sylabic words there for him to understand.

Of course, I am just a Seto Kaiba yes-man, and Seto's the Macross Syndicate ring-leader. How could we stand up in the face of the #1 RT fan, and the #1 RT authority?

Most of the time, I find the ridiculous nature of Bendo to be laughable and entertaining, but there are times where I get tired of him. After all, there's only so much Bendo-ism I can take before I start getting a headache.

Edited December 4, 2009 by Robelwell202

[VFTF1]

Oh yeah...forgot about the functionally illiterate part.

Still - talk about making a virtue out of your short comings. I mean - the guy could just ask for help and have somebody read him the subs while he watches or something.

But it seems that given this fact - we can really discern his preference for Robotech as follows:

"Since I can't read, I prefer watching TV shows that don't require me to read sub-titles. Since there are no official dubs of Macross Frontier and neve will be, just as there never will be official dubs of Macross 7 etc into english -I'm just going to presume that all those shows suck balls and say that Robotech is the best, even though the real reason I'm saying it is because I can't read and by default prefer TV shows where I don't have to read."

Sorry to be so harsh - but that's my guess. He's hiding behind his handicap - and when a handicap becomes something that you don't overcome but use to hie behind - then that's just dumb.

"Oh sorry - I can't read, so I'm never going to understand Macross Frontier - but I will argue that it's probably so stupid that you don't need to understand the Japanese words - all they're probably saying is "ME SO HORNY" and "ME LOVE YOU LONG TIME LITTLE GIRL" - and that's clearly inferior to Robotech."

Meh

Pete

[Gubaba]

Of course, I am just a Seto Kaiba yes-man, and Seto's the Macross Syndicate ring-leader. How could we stand up in the face of the #1 RT fan, and the #1 RT authority?

This bugs me, too. No offense to Seto, who's a good guy, but I find it a little annoying that both Pizza the Hutt and Doug Bendo have referred to him as the leader of Macross fandom, and the rest of us are just his flunkies.

[VFTF1]

This bugs me, too. No offense to Seto, who's a good guy, but I find it a little annoying that both Pizza the Hutt and Doug Bendo have referred to him as the leader of Macross fandom, and the rest of us are just his flunkies

Well - I think this is because of Seto's history as a member of Robotech.com.

The thing is - I think it makes them feel better to think that a former member of RT.com is the "leader" of a branch of Robotech off-shoots - Macross fans.

You see - to them, Macross does not exist independent of Robotech. Ergo, Macross fandom does not exist independent of Seto, who is a former RT.com member.

People who have never been members of Robotech.com are half-beast, half-god creatures that live out in the boonies and that Seto has collected to rally to their cause.

Some of them can even read and write- the horror!

Pete

[RedWolf]

This bugs me, too. No offense to Seto, who's a good guy, but I find it a little annoying that both Pizza the Hutt and Doug Bendo have referred to him as the leader of Macross fandom, and the rest of us are just his flunkies.

The kicker is Seto sees the Studio Nue continuity is the AU rather than the main timeline.

He is more a Macross II fan really.

[Einherjar]

This bugs me, too. No offense to Seto, who's a good guy, but I find it a little annoying that both Pizza the Hutt and Doug Bendo have referred to him as the leader of Macross fandom, and the rest of us are just his flunkies.

Thank God there's no such thing as a leader of the Macross fandom and they'll never be a need for one. Depending on how important the Internet is to people, it would only be a small portion of the online community that actually believes it. But even then they could be all Anonymous. It rarely translates well into the real world without a lot of effort and money to back it up anyway. And for what it's worth, there shouldn't be a fandom leader for anything in general, even Robotech. Having close connections to the source doesn't matter much if you're too gullible and willing to compromise your integrity (or just sacrifice everything) for it.

As for the Robotech Fan and Frontier, strange. By now it's no surprise that for years he's hated Shadow Chronicles and the crew working at HG for at most ruining his unique childhood memories about it. Then he turns the whole thing around when there's a perceived threat by a unrelated show that is ruining the credibility of the show he has unique childhood memories about. But, in the end of the day he goes back to hating everyone and anything not him or not thinking like him until another topic comes to mind (most of the time something with a vague relation to Robotech). It's a zero gain situation, and with the recent happenings with talkshoe, a negative gain.

Edited December 4, 2009 by Einherjar

[Funkenstein]

Shouldn't Robotech fans be more angry that they dont have access to the hot loot that Macross fans regularly buy? I mean, they can't even buy Yamato's 1/100 Monster, or the 1/2000 scale SDF-1.

[TheLoneWolf]

For real, Robotech fans should be pissed that they're not allowed to buy Macross toys off of eBay, Hobby Link Japan, or Big Bad Toy Store.

By comparison, we Macross fans have it good. I love going to Walmart and picking up discounted Yamatos!

Oh wait...

[therealfolkblues]

Didn't want to start a thread about this. Interesting to be sure...

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/12/8_reas...han_macross.php

[Gubaba]

Didn't want to start a thread about this. Interesting to be sure...

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/12/8_reas...han_macross.php

Well, now...THAT seems calibrated specifically to create rage amongst Macross fans, doesn't it?

[HappyPenguins]

Well, now...THAT seems calibrated specifically to create rage amongst Macross fans, doesn't it?

oh no!

and with that being said... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXIJz7_MDMo

[VF5SS]

Hey that article is using one of my youtube videos. The one on the Auroran.

[Robelwell202]

Didn't want to start a thread about this. Interesting to be sure...

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/12/8_reas...han_macross.php

Oh, gawd! If Bendo gets ahold of that article, he'll scream that it's the final vindication of what he's been saying all along. We'll never hear the end of it.

Pray that he doesn't.

Edited December 5, 2009 by Robelwell202

[azrael]

Well, now...THAT seems calibrated specifically to create rage amongst Macross fans, doesn't it?

Well then, let me give some comments. *waves hand high*

8. (Time for some A1-attitude) So RT traded the manly-voice of Sho Hayami for the girly-man voice of Cam Clarke.

7. Longer =/= better.

6. I'd rather take "Focker" than a "Rick Hunter - Gay porn star"

5. Millia after 7 kids. She's can be a MILF and total bad-ass b*tch at the same time.

4. Let me turn that around. Robotech Battlecry. WORST. GAME. EVER.

3. "We can't count Robotech: The Movie"...Oh yes we can.

2. Robotech resulted in Robotech. Listening to some of the dialog in that will make me wanna listen to the Clash of the Bionoids-dubbing.

1. Makurosu! Makurosu!

Ooshiku tatta wakamono wa

Aisuru hito wo kabaitsustu

Tabidatsu hibi wo

Tatakai hiraku

I love catchy theme songs.

That got some Friday-anger out. Got anymore trolling RT articles to rip apart?

[Funkenstein]

Nostalgia clouds judgement. Im sure those guys also loved the 1987 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and never known about the Eastman & Laird original series.

If its not obvious, I hold the 1987 series in high contempt.

But the real thing that Robotech fans won't be able to answer is why their veritechs are all from the 1980's (excluding the retconned series' of course). I suppose nostalgia also covers up the reverse progression of technology in Robotech. Don't get me started on why technology developed in reverse in Robotech. I have a hard enough time trying to figure out how a civilization goes from sleek fighter craft to god awful fat-ass space bloxes.

Edited December 5, 2009 by Funkenstein

[Gubaba]

That got some Friday-anger out. Got anymore trolling RT articles to rip apart?

Oh, Azrael, I pity you...everyone knows that Robotech is an epic hard science fiction adventure, spanning three generations; it created anime fandom in the west, and opened the floodgate for what was to follow. Sure, some of it falls short, but that's because visionary creator Carl Macek had to tell his story through imperfect animation; that's all he had to work with, so of course some of it doesn't look so hot. And if he had managed to complete his groundbreaking storytelling venture, it would have become the New Americana, replacing even Star Wars in people's hearts. And it was, we're left with an imperfect, but stunningly ambitious, influential, and creative epic.

Macross, on the other hand, is about a ship called the ASS-1, and some little girl (who's supposed to be Chinese, but looks caucasian) who sings at the bad guys which somehow defeats them.

Totally NOT the same thing.

(Gah, I threw up a little in my mouth just typing that out...)

[Beltane70]

It's kind of funny how that article critisizes DYRL solely based on the horrible acting in the Clash of the Bionoids dub.

I'm also curious, has anyone actually come out and call Doug Bendo illiterate on any of his podcasts?

[Robelwell202]

It's kind of funny how that article critisizes DYRL solely based on the horrible acting in the Clash of the Bionoids dub.

I'm also curious, has anyone actually come out and call Doug Bendo illiterate on any of his podcasts?

I did. He blew it off, as usual, but as soon as I did, we both (That is, Seto and I) layed into him about not reading the subs on his version of MacF, therefore disqualifying him for offering anything like a real opinion of the thing.

Edited December 5, 2009 by Robelwell202

[Seto Kaiba]

Well - again - this just says more about them, than about the particular series they are discussing.

[...]

There are people on the fringes who are always craptastically bad on these subjects. Gay-bashers and "feminists" - anybody who has an agenda rather thoughtless prejudice...

No kidding. The whole business with Pizza the Hutt flying off the handle and screaming about how Macross Frontier was "pro-gay propaganda" and then accusing those who tried to explain to him that Alto was neither gay nor a crossdresser of trying to force their pro-gay agenda on everyone, before making the bizarre pronouncement that if we get our way, homosexuality'll be compulsory within a couple decades.

Prior to that, Pizza and I were actually on reasonably good terms, mainly due to the fact that I helped hook him up with DYRL, which he thought was absolutely awesome. That insane rant made me start to see that he wasn't all there in the head.

And I have reason to suspect that if he really theatens to beat people up and pee on his girlfriend during the podcast - those 900 people show not giving a damn what Robotech or Macross is, but just wanting to see him swear, pee on people and point fingers at naked girls in asian cartoons.

Eh... like I said, we have good reason to suspect that he's not actually getting ~900 visitors like he claims he is. He had his show set to an A-rating, which meant that anyone (even search bots) could get to it, and he was linkspamming all over the place. Now that only registered TalkShoe members aged 18+ can get even load the page, I think we'll see a major drop in his number of listeners... of course he'll probably lie about it all the same, just like how he claimed the first podcast of his that I attended had 20+ live listeners when in truth it only had four or five people at any one time.

This bugs me, too. No offense to Seto, who's a good guy, but I find it a little annoying that both Pizza the Hutt and Doug Bendo have referred to him as the leader of Macross fandom, and the rest of us are just his flunkies.

None taken... I'm kind of perplexed by this myself. I mean, I may be the resident Macross II expert, but by no means am I the leader of the entire Macross fandom or even a small portion thereof.

I think, for them, it's a coping mechanism. It's much more comfortable for them to believe that their lunatic fringe views on Robotech and Macross are the commonly-held beliefs or the gospel truth and that any opposition they may encounter comes from Macross fans who hate Robotech and want to ruin everybody's good time. That way, it gives them a handy straw man to rail against whenever things aren't going their way. I seem to have been appointed the "face" of this straw man army for a variety of reasons. I suspect the main factor is simply that by simple coincidence I'm the one who ends up running into them first, so when everyone else posts after me saying essentially the same thing I am, they assume it's a coordinated effort rather than consider the possibility that what they wrote was so wrong that it prompted more than one person to respond.

Well - I think this is because of Seto's history as a member of Robotech.com.

The thing is - I think it makes them feel better to think that a former member of RT.com is the "leader" of a branch of Robotech off-shoots - Macross fans.

I think if my history on Robotech.com has anything to do with it, it's probably because of my status as the site's resident Macross expert (prior to my banning) and/or the fact that even after I was banned (or possibly BECAUSE of it) I'm still a fairly well-respected figure in the community... so much so that I continue to receive e-mails containing questions about Robotech and Macross from members there who've gotten sick of trying to get a straight answer from the ignorant masses. It actually gives me hope for the Robotech fanbase... it's proof that the idiots and ego-tripping witch-hunting members of the "Robotech purists" haven't managed to completely purge intelligent and reasonable people from their midst.

The kicker is Seto sees the Studio Nue continuity is the AU rather than the main timeline.

He is more a Macross II fan really.

Hey, don't get me wrong... I love the Super Dimension Fortress Macross TV series so much that I happily bought it twice (AnimEigo and ADV), I have a lot of respect for Macross Plus even though it doesn't feel like a Macross show (didn't stop me from getting both versions), and Macross Frontier restored my faith in the show's future and had me actually impatient for each new episode, which, as many of my friends will tell you, is bloody unprecedented. I prefer the Macross II continuity on the grounds that it does follow the themes and tone of the original series and DYRL much more closely than Kawamori's sequels do, that the timeline stresses how strained resources were with the reclamation of Earth's surface, and that the mecha feel like a more logical evolution from the VF-1 than some of the later main continuity Valkyries... but that's a topic for another thread.

But, in the end of the day he goes back to hating everyone and anything not him or not thinking like him until another topic comes to mind (most of the time something with a vague relation to Robotech). It's a zero gain situation, and with the recent happenings with talkshoe, a negative gain.

Indeed. He doesn't want to admit it, but a LOT of his previous shows, and indeed many of his current and planned ones, are only superficially related to Robotech. I very much doubt anyone could actually run a podcast for ~340 shows without having to abandon the premise of it being a Robotech podcast around episode 9 or so... there's just not enough material there. Now if it were something enormous like Lupin III, Macross, or Gundam, you may be able to hang on for 100 episodes or so before running out of material.

Didn't want to start a thread about this. Interesting to be sure...

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/12/8_reas...han_macross.php

Oh god, where to start... this was either put up specifically to troll Macross fans because the guy who runs it is a butthurt Robotech fan, or he's one of those people who professes to be an anime fan but has that borderline xenophobic attitude that makes him hate on any example of other cultures.

#8. Aside from replacing Max's deep, manly voice with a somewhat effeminate one, Robotech didn't really change anything there... except that in Robotech "Miriya" is reduced to a hanger-on for Lisa in the Sentinels material, popping out kids and not seeing much of any combat, while she was deleted outright in the whole RTSC business. Her Macross counterpart not only raises seven kids and adopts another, but continues to be a military bigshot ace fighter pilot, then turns to training the next generation of fighter aces, and then for a break becomes the mayor of an entire colony city. Of course, if the TR author mentioned that, he wouldn't have been able to construct his claim at all.

#7. Robotech is longer? No it isn't. If we don't count failed and aborted projects, Robotech is a mere 85 episodes, 23 of which most Robotech fans consider repellant, and only 36 of which the fans actually care about, and a single low-budget movie. Macross's original series may have fewer episodes, but Macross as a whole positively dwarfs Robotech with 110 TV series episodes, 23 OVA episodes, and 3 movies (not counting the movie adaptations of II and Plus, or the second forthcoming Frontier movie).

You could also respond with "Yes, we can make Macross longer too by making a weak excuse and then dicking with the subtitles for Legend of Galactic Heroes".

#6. Really? Half their out-of-continuity protagonists are named Jack! Jack Archer, Jack Baker, and I'm sure there's a "Jack Candlestickmaker" somewhere. Most of the Robotech names aren't materially different from their original versions, with only minor spelling differences. Of course, how is "Lunk" a sensible name? Or, for that matter, "Zor Prime", or "Musica, Allegra, and Octavia"... or to really start hitting below the belt, "Kazianna Hesh", "Veidt", "Janice Em2", "Corg", and "Eli Anatole Leonard"?

#5. Another writ of "bullshit by false example" please... "empowered women"? They reduce tough gal Miriya to a housewife and KEEP HER THERE, reducing her role in the story to virtually nothing and then deleting her outright. Lisa Hayes gets it in the arse after everyone in the original series forgets she's in charge and refers to Admiral RICK Hunter, and then she gets injured while waiting to take her RETIREMENT so she can stay at home popping out babies in Prelude, then breaks down after she has a miscarriage, quits the service, and becomes a token diplomat with no authority. Dana Sterling isn't an empowered woman, he cites examples of what a ditz she is... risking her subordinates lives so she can afford a new dress, reading magazines during briefings and during operations, she's self-centered, lazy, vain, and more than a bit stupid. Nova Satori and Marie Crystal both end up bowing out and taking minor roles so Dana can have center stage. The most empowered woman in the "New Generation" is a man disguised as a woman.

Let's have a look at empowered women in Macross... Milia Jenius marries a top ace, has seven kids, adopts another, and does it all while kicking ass and taking names as a fighter ace, test pilot, flight trainer, and later mayor of an entire city and is shown to be fully capable of kicking ass and taking names at 50+. Misa Hayase... marries, has a kid, and commands an entire colony fleet. Sylvie Gena is one of the top Valkyrie pilots in the Sol system at only age 17. Ishtar defies her entire race and saves her people from annihilation at the hands of their commander before going off to spread songs of peace and love to the stars. Mylene Jenius, Emilia Jenius, and Veffidas Feaze help defeat a threat to the entire galaxy with nothing but the power of song and their own determination. I don't need to bring up the contributions of Sheryl Nome, Ranka Lee, Grace O'Connor, and Catherine Glass, since we've all seen that show recently.

#4. Shorten this to "Robotech inspired fewer videogames" and you have the centerpiece of this argument. It only inspired fewer BAD videogames because it only ever inspired a handful of videogames to begin with, most of which were STILL bad... like the cell phone games and Robotech: Invasion.

#3. Whether a sequel is "good" or "bad" is a subjective value judgment, though it cannot be argued that Robotech has more FAILED sequels and that Macross has inspired more successful sequels.

#2. No it didn't result in Clash of the Bionoids... but it DID result in a hamhanded hackjob rewrite of Megazone 23, and a number of other spectacular failures.

#1. If you're a big fan of 80's synth-pop, then yes... otherwise, no.

[Wanzerfan]

Jeez, I stop paying attention to this thread for a little bit and the rumors of how cruel I am to Robotech fans get WAY out of control... For the last time, those are "alternative mulching supplies". I've just been dragging my heels about renting a wood chipper.

Speaking of Robotech sociopaths, I think I may have made dougbendo cry or something... he's devoted like half a dozen podcast episodes to trying (and generally failing) to badmouth or intimidate me, and he's spent the past two weeks or so trying (and failing) to convince everyone on RobotechX that Macross Frontier is child pornography and everyone who likes it is a pedophile because he believes, despite all evidence to the contrary, that Ranka is at most 12 years old, and that the last episode shows her "naked in space" for all of four seconds. He first got onto that tack when some people started criticizing RTSC and saying it compared unfavorably to Macross Frontier. I hear his podcasts are currently under investigation by TalkShoe's admins for a veritable grocery list of violations including (but not limited to) copyright violations, libel, threatening to assault other TalkShoe users and his girlfriend during shows, and the use of both sexually explicit and racist language in a show rated "All Audiences". Maybe that's why he's so pissy.

In related news, our mutual pal Pizza the Hutt got banned from RobotechX for the second time for repeatedly attacking an admin, and he's on his way to a second ban on Robotech.com for lashing out at anyone who criticizes the prospects of the Robotech live-action movie.

I'd say if it's possible for a 11 meter tall Zentradi commander to ride a Monster into battle like a horse without adversely affecting it, then that's at least plausible.

Khyron rode atop an Officer's Battle Pod into battle during the episode when he kidnapped Lynns Kyle and Minmei.

No kidding. The whole business with Pizza the Hutt flying off the handle and screaming about how Macross Frontier was "pro-gay propaganda" and then accusing those who tried to explain to him that Alto was neither gay nor a crossdresser of trying to force their pro-gay agenda on everyone, before making the bizarre pronouncement that if we get our way, homosexuality'll be compulsory within a couple decades.

Prior to that, Pizza and I were actually on reasonably good terms, mainly due to the fact that I helped hook him up with DYRL, which he thought was absolutely awesome. That insane rant made me start to see that he wasn't all there in the head.

Eh... like I said, we have good reason to suspect that he's not actually getting ~900 visitors like he claims he is. He had his show set to an A-rating, which meant that anyone (even search bots) could get to it, and he was linkspamming all over the place. Now that only registered TalkShoe members aged 18+ can get even load the page, I think we'll see a major drop in his number of listeners... of course he'll probably lie about it all the same, just like how he claimed the first podcast of his that I attended had 20+ live listeners when in truth it only had four or five people at any one time.

None taken... I'm kind of perplexed by this myself. I mean, I may be the resident Macross II expert, but by no means am I the leader of the entire Macross fandom or even a small portion thereof.

I think, for them, it's a coping mechanism. It's much more comfortable for them to believe that their lunatic fringe views on Robotech and Macross are the commonly-held beliefs or the gospel truth and that any opposition they may encounter comes from Macross fans who hate Robotech and want to ruin everybody's good time. That way, it gives them a handy straw man to rail against whenever things aren't going their way. I seem to have been appointed the "face" of this straw man army for a variety of reasons. I suspect the main factor is simply that by simple coincidence I'm the one who ends up running into them first, so when everyone else posts after me saying essentially the same thing I am, they assume it's a coordinated effort rather than consider the possibility that what they wrote was so wrong that it prompted more than one person to respond.

I think if my history on Robotech.com has anything to do with it, it's probably because of my status as the site's resident Macross expert (prior to my banning) and/or the fact that even after I was banned (or possibly BECAUSE of it) I'm still a fairly well-respected figure in the community... so much so that I continue to receive e-mails containing questions about Robotech and Macross from members there who've gotten sick of trying to get a straight answer from the ignorant masses. It actually gives me hope for the Robotech fanbase... it's proof that the idiots and ego-tripping witch-hunting members of the "Robotech purists" haven't managed to completely purge intelligent and reasonable people from their midst.

Hey, don't get me wrong... I love the Super Dimension Fortress Macross TV series so much that I happily bought it twice (AnimEigo and ADV), I have a lot of respect for Macross Plus even though it doesn't feel like a Macross show (didn't stop me from getting both versions), and Macross Frontier restored my faith in the show's future and had me actually impatient for each new episode, which, as many of my friends will tell you, is bloody unprecedented. I prefer the Macross II continuity on the grounds that it does follow the themes and tone of the original series and DYRL much more closely than Kawamori's sequels do, that the timeline stresses how strained resources were with the reclamation of Earth's surface, and that the mecha feel like a more logical evolution from the VF-1 than some of the later main continuity Valkyries... but that's a topic for another thread.

Indeed. He doesn't want to admit it, but a LOT of his previous shows, and indeed many of his current and planned ones, are only superficially related to Robotech. I very much doubt anyone could actually run a podcast for ~340 shows without having to abandon the premise of it being a Robotech podcast around episode 9 or so... there's just not enough material there. Now if it were something enormous like Lupin III, Macross, or Gundam, you may be able to hang on for 100 episodes or so before running out of material.

Oh god, where to start... this was either put up specifically to troll Macross fans because the guy who runs it is a butthurt Robotech fan, or he's one of those people who professes to be an anime fan but has that borderline xenophobic attitude that makes him hate on any example of other cultures.

#8. Aside from replacing Max's deep, manly voice with a somewhat effeminate one, Robotech didn't really change anything there... except that in Robotech "Miriya" is reduced to a hanger-on for Lisa in the Sentinels material, popping out kids and not seeing much of any combat, while she was deleted outright in the whole RTSC business. Her Macross counterpart not only raises seven kids and adopts another, but continues to be a military bigshot ace fighter pilot, then turns to training the next generation of fighter aces, and then for a break becomes the mayor of an entire colony city. Of course, if the TR author mentioned that, he wouldn't have been able to construct his claim at all.

#7. Robotech is longer? No it isn't. If we don't count failed and aborted projects, Robotech is a mere 85 episodes, 23 of which most Robotech fans consider repellant, and only 36 of which the fans actually care about, and a single low-budget movie. Macross's original series may have fewer episodes, but Macross as a whole positively dwarfs Robotech with 110 TV series episodes, 23 OVA episodes, and 3 movies (not counting the movie adaptations of II and Plus, or the second forthcoming Frontier movie).

You could also respond with "Yes, we can make Macross longer too by making a weak excuse and then dicking with the subtitles for Legend of Galactic Heroes".

#6. Really? Half their out-of-continuity protagonists are named Jack! Jack Archer, Jack Baker, and I'm sure there's a "Jack Candlestickmaker" somewhere. Most of the Robotech names aren't materially different from their original versions, with only minor spelling differences. Of course, how is "Lunk" a sensible name? Or, for that matter, "Zor Prime", or "Musica, Allegra, and Octavia"... or to really start hitting below the belt, "Kazianna Hesh", "Veidt", "Janice Em2", "Corg", and "Eli Anatole Leonard"?

#5. Another writ of "bullshit by false example" please... "empowered women"? They reduce tough gal Miriya to a housewife and KEEP HER THERE, reducing her role in the story to virtually nothing and then deleting her outright. Lisa Hayes gets it in the arse after everyone in the original series forgets she's in charge and refers to Admiral RICK Hunter, and then she gets injured while waiting to take her RETIREMENT so she can stay at home popping out babies in Prelude, then breaks down after she has a miscarriage, quits the service, and becomes a token diplomat with no authority. Dana Sterling isn't an empowered woman, he cites examples of what a ditz she is... risking her subordinates lives so she can afford a new dress, reading magazines during briefings and during operations, she's self-centered, lazy, vain, and more than a bit stupid. Nova Satori and Marie Crystal both end up bowing out and taking minor roles so Dana can have center stage. The most empowered woman in the "New Generation" is a man disguised as a woman.

Let's have a look at empowered women in Macross... Milia Jenius marries a top ace, has seven kids, adopts another, and does it all while kicking ass and taking names as a fighter ace, test pilot, flight trainer, and later mayor of an entire city and is shown to be fully capable of kicking ass and taking names at 50+. Misa Hayase... marries, has a kid, and commands an entire colony fleet. Sylvie Gena is one of the top Valkyrie pilots in the Sol system at only age 17. Ishtar defies her entire race and saves her people from annihilation at the hands of their commander before going off to spread songs of peace and love to the stars. Mylene Jenius, Emilia Jenius, and Veffidas Feaze help defeat a threat to the entire galaxy with nothing but the power of song and their own determination. I don't need to bring up the contributions of Sheryl Nome, Ranka Lee, Grace O'Connor, and Catherine Glass, since we've all seen that show recently.

#4. Shorten this to "Robotech inspired fewer videogames" and you have the centerpiece of this argument. It only inspired fewer BAD videogames because it only ever inspired a handful of videogames to begin with, most of which were STILL bad... like the cell phone games and Robotech: Invasion.

#3. Whether a sequel is "good" or "bad" is a subjective value judgment, though it cannot be argued that Robotech has more FAILED sequels and that Macross has inspired more successful sequels.

#2. No it didn't result in Clash of the Bionoids... but it DID result in a hamhanded hackjob rewrite of Megazone 23, and a number of other spectacular failures.

#1. If you're a big fan of 80's synth-pop, then yes... otherwise, no.

I thought that character's name was Anatole Whesphal Leonard.

[RDClip]

Didn't want to start a thread about this. Interesting to be sure...

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/12/8_reas...han_macross.php

cool down MWers, i highly doubt this guy is serious, else i feel sorry for him.

Anyway, just want to give my personal experience with robotech.com. So a few weeks ago i decided to go over to their site to see how the other side live. I went to the macross section and within the top 10 topic, one was the aforementioned gay-bashing thread against MacrossF and another was an ignorant, xenophobic rant about the Minmei's music and how the translations didn't make sense to the poster. Both of these topics had several pages and were a few days (at least old). Now i've been a member on many online forums and this kind of stuff maybe (though not very likely) go by on a private fan site, but for an official site to keep ignorant, discriminatory threads open is is completely irresponsible.

[RDClip]

Khyron rode atop an Officer's Battle Pod into battle during the episode when he kidnapped Lynns Kyle and Minmei.

It was a MkII monster.

Ep, 32 around 16:20

Edited December 5, 2009 by RDClip

[Einherjar]

I'm also curious, has anyone actually come out and call Doug Bendo illiterate on any of his podcasts?

Not literate, but there was one time when someone accused him of being a game mod thief during a live show. It was for a Robotech/Macross/Gundam centered Command & Conquer 3 mod he was heavily promoting.

[Seto Kaiba]

I'm also curious, has anyone actually come out and call Doug Bendo illiterate on any of his podcasts?

Viper and I both did, several times... though the time it came up the most was in that podcast he put up right after his flash-scheduled Thanksgiving Day one that he used to badmouth us behind our backs... the same one where he admitted that he thinks he knows all about Macross Frontier after watching the show unsubtitled.

Not literate, but there was one time when someone accused him of being a game mod thief during a live show. It was for a Robotech/Macross/Gundam centered Command & Conquer 3 mod he was heavily promoting.

Yeah, I heard about that too... he was claiming that he was one of the people who was in charge of developing that mod on another one of his shows, which is, as far as I have been able to discern, a lie.

[VF5SS]

Help me think of a funny annotation to put on my Southern Cross video. Right now it reads, "the writers at Topless Robot are idiots" which will display when someone watches my video even on their site.

lol I changed the video title to something more appropriate.

Edited December 5, 2009 by VF5SS

[Einherjar]

Yeah, I heard about that too... he was claiming that he was one of the people who was in charge of developing that mod on another one of his shows, which is, as far as I have been able to discern, a lie.

Oh no, I think it was true to some extent. This is probably the site for it and a blurb regarding the situation.

http://xenoforce.blogspot.com/2009/07/all-apologies.html

I was there during the live show when it all went down. First, some background: about a year or two ago doug once in a while talked about a mod he was working on with another guy who regularly appeared on the show called Xenoforce Reborn, using the Command & Conquer 3 engine. It was supposed to be the successor to the original Xenoforce mod for C&C Generals Zero Hour which included some Macross and Gundam mecha. From what I remember, the plan was to include those two factions, maybe a RDF faction with additional mecha from Southern Cross and Mospeada, and the original factions from the game with units from past games that were taken out. Because it was very ambitious, work was very slow on the mod. Anyway, near the end of one of his shows focusing on something else, an Anonymous user entered the talkshoe chat for the show accusing him of stealing some user made unit designs from another mod group.

http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=276634

At the time, someone from that group noticed the pictures from the blog or heard about an alpha that was circulating through bit torrent (don't know if the alpha part was true). Then the user demanded doug to take those units out of the mod or they'll face his/her rusty spoon(!), I kid you not. He told the user to screw himself because he was a rebel and wasn't going to do anything differently. However, that was probably the last time he ever talked about the mod on the show. It met the same end as his plan to redub/edit Super Dimension Century Orguss to fit into the Robotech universe.

While I brought it up, can Orguss really fit into Robotech?

Edited December 5, 2009 by Einherjar

[anime52k8]

The book appeals to fan girls.

The author wrote the book in a way that girl x could insert herself in the story.

The movies on the other hand idk. Some of my friends went to see it. All straight men and NO woman within the group.

And stupid question: whats vampire c?

you know, I realized something; the twilight movies and robotech both prove the same thing. rabid/vapid fans will buy any crap you offer them as long as you slap their fandom of choice's name all over it.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Help me think of a funny annotation to put on my Southern Cross video. Right now it reads, "the writers at Topless Robot are idiots" which will display when someone watches my video even on their site.

lol I changed the video title to something more appropriate.

I guess Rob Bricken isn't "TODAYS HOTTEST KIND OF COOL"

[HappyPenguins]

you know, I realized something; the twilight movies and robotech both prove the same thing. rabid/vapid fans will buy any crap you offer them as long as you slap their fandom of choice's name all over it.

well at least the robotech characters don't sparkle! OH SHI

now Tommy Yune will read this and make it happen!

also doug bendo is too damn easy to troll

even an amateur can do it

right now every time someone makes fun of him

he claims it's another "ding" against JT and his podcast

seriously though wtf, he can't stand up to the trolls so

he decides to attack JT instead?

[BeyondTheGrave]

Didn't want to start a thread about this. Interesting to be sure...

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/12/8_reas...han_macross.php

Azrael& Seto has said just about everything that could be said. But here's my 2 cents ....

In my opinion they hold nostalgia waaayyy to high and it clouds their judgment.

I wonder if they're on HG's payroll?

Speaking of Robotech sociopaths, I think I may have made dougbendo cry or something... he's devoted like half a dozen podcast episodes to trying (and generally failing) to badmouth or intimidate me, and he's spent the past two weeks or so trying (and failing) to convince everyone on RobotechX that Macross Frontier is child pornography and everyone who likes it is a pedophile because he believes, despite all evidence to the contrary, that Ranka is at most 12 years old, and that the last episode shows her "naked in space" for all of four seconds. He first got onto that tack when some people started criticizing RTSC and saying it compared unfavorably to Macross Frontier. I hear his podcasts are currently under investigation by TalkShoe's admins for a veritable grocery list of violations including (but not limited to) copyright violations, libel, threatening to assault other TalkShoe users and his girlfriend during shows, and the use of both sexually explicit and racist language in a show rated "All Audiences". Maybe that's why he's so pissy.

And he calls himself the face of robotech fandom?

Heck he should go watch Strain and Jinki Extend.

you know, I realized something; the twilight movies and robotech both prove the same thing. rabid/vapid fans will buy any crap you offer them as long as you slap their fandom of choice's name all over it.

Found a video kinda proving that point. Will post link later.

Edited December 5, 2009 by BeyondTheGrave

[Aladdin Sane]

Topless Robot has dabbled in anti-Macross trolling (ick, I feel like Pizza or someone going on about "Macross purist trolls" saying that) before, the first major example I can remember being here. A number of people made what I felt to be fairly reasonable, civil posts in the comments but, unfortunately, one (or possibly more) idiots felt the need to spam it with a bunch of pointless "HURPADERP ROBOCRAP IS TEH SUXX" nonsense which, I think, resulted in the tone of this next piece. This list is just the most recent entry in a trilogy of attempts to elicit some kind of response from Macross fans.

I don't know how much the writers at Topless Robot believe what they're putting out there, but it's pretty obvious the reason it's being done is to annoy people. Note the tags on the two most recent posts ("Nerd baiting") and the dismissive attitude displayed in #7 on the list ("It doesn't matter what you try to say because I'm just going to ignore you").

Edited December 5, 2009 by Aladdin Sane

[justvinnie]

yeah just look at Twilight for example

the story is crap but it appeals to the morons, and sadly there are more morons than intelligent folk...

and like Robotech, Twilight is hard to take seriously....

especially when you know about the vampire C section and realize Bella is just a self insert of the author.

which brings me to the next question.. how in the hell did that series

become so popular?

Here's a technical breakdown.

How Twilight Works

vinnie