azrael Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 If MEMO's statements are to be believed, Tatsunoko expects their licensee to play hardball with SDF Macross' film distribution rights, and they've found a willing licensee in Harmony Gold. While both parties are clearly complicit, it makes sense that Tatsunoko would be the one pulling the strings. Tatsunoko is the license holder and Harmony Gold merely the licensee. Well, Tatsunoko did file an infringment lawsuit against Bandai Visual (which they lost) when M0 came out. So... Not very likely, if there ever will be a reboot it's going to come from the WB movie, but it remains to be seen if that ever gets made. HG does not have the money to create a decent sequel let alone a reboot themselves. My guess would be if there ever would be new animation it would come from a Mospeada sequel/retelling. A reboot would affect any of their works after the reboot. It still, unfortunately, leaves open the original license issue. For that to go away, Tatsunoko would have to opt-out of renewing the license with HG. Then, Tatsunoko would have to sell back whatever they own from SDFM and DYRL? (fat chance of that). As I've said repeatedly, rebooting can make Robotech, uniquely, it's own entity. They don't have to rely on Macross, Southern Cross, or Mospeada being the glue. They can avoid the license issue by making up their own designs. But a reboot needs to actually happen for it to all work. How in 7 hells does HG stay in business on just Robotech alone? The franchise can't be bringing that much money for them. I would have thought by now that they would have been swallowed up by another or simply folded. In fact till the Robotech DVDs came out, I thought HG was long out of business. Robotech is just a puny piece in HG's collection. HG is a producer, acquisition and distributor of international media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowValkyrie Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 (edited) Well, Tatsunoko did file an infringment lawsuit against Bandai Visual (which they lost) when M0 came out. So... A reboot would affect any of their works after the reboot. It still, unfortunately, leaves open the original license issue. For that to go away, Tatsunoko would have to opt-out of renewing the license with HG. Then, Tatsunoko would have to sell back whatever they own from SDFM and DYRL? (fat chance of that). As I've said repeatedly, rebooting can make Robotech, uniquely, it's own entity. They don't have to rely on Macross, Southern Cross, or Mospeada being the glue. They can avoid the license issue by making up their own designs. But a reboot needs to actually happen for it to all work. Robotech is just a puny piece in HG's collection. HG is a producer, acquisition and distributor of international media. Looking at some of HG's collection, it seems like their "catalog" is largely B-movie to Hallmarkish sort of fair. Edited October 26, 2009 by ShadowValkyrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Looking at some of HG's collection, it seems like their "catalog" is largely B-movie to Hallmarkish sort of fair. Never mind that crap... here comes Robotech! When people talk about Harmony Gold they want you to think about the Robotech multimedia experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freiflug88 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 If MEMO's statements are to be believed, Tatsunoko expects their licensee to play hardball with SDF Macross' film distribution rights, and they've found a willing licensee in Harmony Gold. While both parties are clearly complicit, it makes sense that Tatsunoko would be the one pulling the strings. Tatsunoko is the license holder and Harmony Gold merely the licensee. Looking at the numerous lawsuits filed, I'd say that there's an overwhelming amount of bad blood between Big West and Tatsunoko. Personally speaking, I'd say that Big West dislikes Tatsunoko even more than they do Harmony Gold. Tatsunoko is the one who tried to strip away SDF Macross from Big West, not Harmony Gold. Harmony Gold just cheered on Tatsunoko from the sideline. I do agree that if Harmony Gold ever folded, Tatsunoko would simply find another licensee who would aggresively protect their license. I think Tatsunoko would specifically look for a licensee that is not sympathetic to Big West. I am not saying their isn't any bad blood between them, but to my knowledge Tatsunko never claimed the actual SDF Macross series as their own or even tried to strip away SDF Macross rights from Big West until they were dragged in court. To me it seems like Tatsunko was angry at being dragged into court as Big West's attempt to stop HG's actions and figured that they should at least try to make the best of the situation and try to take as much of SDF Macross out of the court room with them as they could. I mean if someone dragged you into court with a lawsuit won't you be eager to bring forth a countersuit and sue them for every penny you could in retribution? Unfortunately If Harmony Gold ever folded I wouldn't be surprised if they try to sell all there Robotech copyrights and Macross trademarks rights along with setting up the new Robotech buyer as Tatsunoko's new licensee for as much money as they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolicon Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Never mind that crap... here comes Robotech! When people talk about Harmony Gold they want you to think about the Robotech multimedia experience. Don't forget that "many" new people are becoming Macross and anime fans thanks to their introduction through Robotech! All hail Robotech! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taksraven Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Agreed. I have no real beef with Robotech, except that I don't enjoy it much. And this thread can get monotonous at times, or else get a little TOO mean-spirited. But still...it's one of the most genuinely exciting threads on the board...it's like rooting for your favorite football team. You don't REALLY hate the other team or their fans, but it's fun to act like it sometimes. ROBOTECH...GRRRRR!!!! I think that the real beef that most of us have here is not really with RT, but rather with HG for blocking most releases of new Macross material outside of Japan. (Kinda stating the obvious I know, but just clarifying for the RT-fanboy lurkers) So other than the legal issue, I could not give a fark about Robotech. Taksraven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I think that the real beef that most of us have here is not really with RT, but rather with HG for blocking most releases of new Macross material outside of Japan. (Kinda stating the obvious I know, but just clarifying for the RT-fanboy lurkers) So other than the legal issue, I could not give a fark about Robotech. Taksraven So what about Space Battleship Yamato fans? There has NEVER been a release (on VHS, LD, or DVD) of any Yamato TV series in Japanese with subtitles. Gatchaman has been released, but it took nearly thirty years to do so (and still no sign of Gatchaman II or Gatchaman F), and yet no one is calling for Sandy Frank's head on a platter. Golion fans weren't jumping all over Voltron fans (and vice-versa). What's so different about Robotech and Macross...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoneWolf Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 I am not saying their isn't any bad blood between them, but to my knowledge Tatsunko never claimed the actual SDF Macross series as their own or even tried to strip away SDF Macross rights from Big West until they were dragged in court. Actually, Tatsunoko conducted business in the USA as if they owned all the Macross copyrights. If you read Harmony Gold et al v. FASA Corporation et al, you'll see that a federal judge reviewed Tatsunoko's contract with Harmony Gold and wrote "Harmony Gold...acquired co-ownership of the copyrights in both the original Macross designs and any derivative works." In a nutshell, Tatsunoko had given away designs that they never owned in the first place. To me it seems like Tatsunko was angry at being dragged into court as Big West's attempt to stop HG's actions and figured that they should at least try to make the best of the situation and try to take as much of SDF Macross out of the court room with them as they could. If Tatsunoko was angry about being dragged into court because of Harmony Gold's actions, then they could have ordered Harmony Gold to stop. That's the authority that a license holder can wield over its licensee. That fact that Tatsunoko agreed to go to court, instead of settling out of court with Big West, tells me that Tatsunoko truly believed that they held all of the Macross copyrights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MastaEgg Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 How in 7 hells does HG stay in business on just Robotech alone? The franchise can't be bringing that much money for them. I would have thought by now that they would have been swallowed up by another or simply folded. In fact till the Robotech DVDs came out, I thought HG was long out of business. They also have other bussiness ventures (like real estate) that keep them afloat. If Robotech were the only thing they had, they'd had bitten the dust a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginrai Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 They also have other bussiness ventures (like real estate) that keep them afloat. If Robotech were the only thing they had, they'd had bitten the dust a long time ago. How do you know, Mr. Armchair Economist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 They also have other bussiness ventures (like real estate) that keep them afloat. If Robotech were the only thing they had, they'd had bitten the dust a long time ago. http://harmonygoldproperties.com/ That depends on how the company is structured; centralized or decentralized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Couldn't HG just reboot the Robotech franchise? They already did that once... they rebooted the entire continuity to get rid of Sentinels, the novels, the old comics, and all of the other crap. A full reboot would probably kill the Robotech franchise, since ties to the "original 85" are about all that's keeping the rest of the franchise alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonc Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 How do you know, Mr. Armchair Economist? It's not a big secret. HG does make a large portion of their money in real estate. They also do something in buying and selling films, although, I'm not exactly sure what that consists of. I don't think you need to be an economist to know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginrai Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 It's not a big secret. HG does make a large portion of their money in real estate. They also do something in buying and selling films, although, I'm not exactly sure what that consists of. I don't think you need to be an economist to know that. I was talking about the, "If they didn't have real estate, they'd go out of business!" You have no clue what their profit margins are like or what kind of investors they have or anything like that. They could be make lots of bank selling TV shows to third world countries or something. You don't know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I was talking about the, "If they didn't have real estate, they'd go out of business!" You have no clue what their profit margins are like or what kind of investors they have or anything like that. They could be make lots of bank selling TV shows to third world countries or something. You don't know that. And the housing market has been doing really bad for the past year too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 They could be make lots of bank selling TV shows to third world countries or something. You don't know that. That's part of what they do as I said in my previous post. * *(Hence what Frank Agrama was being investigated for by the FBI in connection to the Italian authorities case against former PM Silvio Berlusconi. Agrama [not HG] was accused of buying up TV distribution rights then reselling them at inflated prices to get tax-free kickbacks. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taksraven Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 So what about Space Battleship Yamato fans? There has NEVER been a release (on VHS, LD, or DVD) of any Yamato TV series in Japanese with subtitles. Gatchaman has been released, but it took nearly thirty years to do so (and still no sign of Gatchaman II or Gatchaman F), and yet no one is calling for Sandy Frank's head on a platter. Golion fans weren't jumping all over Voltron fans (and vice-versa). What's so different about Robotech and Macross...? Being a Space Battleship Yamato fan, I can live with Star Blazers. It was one of the least stuffed around with anime, which is astonishing, especially when you consider when it was dubbed. I have both Gatchaman and BOTP, they both have their merits and faults (Casey Kasem was great as Ken and Hoyt Curtins music being used to supplement the original BGM rather than generally replace it was brilliant) I guess that it would just be nice to see Macross released in the West. Oh yes, and RT fans like to pick fights with us that they can never win. Taksraven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Being a Space Battleship Yamato fan, I can live with Star Blazers. It was one of the least stuffed around with anime, which is astonishing, especially when you consider when it was dubbed. Fair enough, and I pretty much agree...but I find it weird switching from Star Blazers TV series to Yamato movies. It would be nice if there was a good, remastered DVD set of the whole shebang with English subtitles. I have both Gatchaman and BOTP, they both have their merits and faults (Casey Kasem was great as Ken and Hoyt Curtins music being used to supplement the original BGM rather than generally replace it was brilliant) That's...an unusual reaction. Gatchaman's main fault was that it's repetitive. Battle of the Planets' main fault it that it's completely chopped-up, has a "cute" robot sidekick added, AND it's repetitive. But I never see anyone go ballistic over it. I guess that it would just be nice to see Macross released in the West. Oh yes, and RT fans like to pick fights with us that they can never win. To be fair, Macross fans start a lot of the fights as well. Anyway, I found this lying around the other day...enjoy, everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freiflug88 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 So what about Space Battleship Yamato fans? There has NEVER been a release (on VHS, LD, or DVD) of any Yamato TV series in Japanese with subtitles. Gatchaman has been released, but it took nearly thirty years to do so (and still no sign of Gatchaman II or Gatchaman F), and yet no one is calling for Sandy Frank's head on a platter. Golion fans weren't jumping all over Voltron fans (and vice-versa). What's so different about Robotech and Macross...? I believe that with franchises that have pretty much run their course in Japan its easier for more fans to accept them as older forgotten classics from the past and eventually move on, such as with Gatchaman and Golion. With Macross though its a whole different ball game. Macross Fans like us have access to the original classic with no problems, but we constantly see Japan enjoying the latest Macross fads with every new release knowing that HG won't ever let those of us outside of Japan have a piece of it. Had Macross spawned no other sequels fans like us would probably only complain about no official US Release of Macross DYRL for so long and move on as so many Gatchaman, Yamato, Golion, etc, have for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taksraven Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 That's...an unusual reaction. Gatchaman's main fault was that it's repetitive. Battle of the Planets' main fault it that it's completely chopped-up, has a "cute" robot sidekick added, AND it's repetitive. But I never see anyone go ballistic over it. I first saw BOTP when I was *really* young, about six or seven, way younger than what I was when I first saw Robotech, so I guess I will always have a bit of a soft spot for BOTP. I consider it one of my main influences in liking anime and SF in general. And even though it was "completely chopped up", there were still some *very* brutal bits left in. (Like in the episode where they are trapped on the cruise liner or whatever, and the old guy with a wheelchair picks up a bomb left by Katse/Zoltar and rides at the wall, blowing himself and the wall up in the process and allowing the others to escape.) Taksraven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taksraven Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I believe that with franchises that have pretty much run their course in Japan its easier for more fans to accept them as older forgotten classics from the past and eventually move on, such as with Gatchaman and Golion. With Macross though its a whole different ball game. Macross Fans like us have access to the original classic with no problems, but we constantly see Japan enjoying the latest Macross fads with every new release knowing that HG won't ever let those of us outside of Japan have a piece of it. Had Macross spawned no other sequels fans like us would probably only complain about no official US Release of Macross DYRL for so long and move on as so many Gatchaman, Yamato, Golion, etc, have for the most part. Thats it in a nutshell. Good explanation. Taksraven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I'm not a fan of good explanations... good explanations mean people can't fight any more... and I'm like Dancouga - I thrive off of flaming red beast energy For example, observe this: Anyway, I found this lying around the other day...enjoy, everyone! SO YOU INSULTING ROBOTECH FANS AGAIN IMPLYING THEY ARE DOGS!! YOU MACROSS PURIST IMPLY ROBOTECH FANS DOGS BECAUSE ONLY DOG THINKS ROBOTECH BETTER THAN MACROSS IS BESIDE THE POINT. ALL KNOW IT MACROSS SAGA - MACROSS IS SUB-SECTION OF ROBOTECH! FLAAAMMME!!!!! See? Miscommunication, jumping to the wrong conclusion - where would the internet be without them? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) Anyway, I found this lying around the other day...enjoy, everyone! I wonder what happened to the person who made that ever since? EDIT: Or anyone else who went overboard with it in years past. Edited October 27, 2009 by Einherjar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) I wonder what happened to the person who made that ever since? EDIT: Or anyone else who went overboard with it in years past. Dude, that is so not even the original. Here's how the un-altered image went. Edited October 27, 2009 by Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Not all dogs eat their poop. JFYI Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taksraven Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I thought that THIS was the original version of the dog poster? Taksraven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyPenguins Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Not all dogs eat their poop. JFYI Pete yeah thankfully mine doesn't he just rolls in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 If it's any consolation - mine rolls in horse poop, which doesn't smell as bad as dog poop. But...um...to stay on topic... Rolling in horse poop is preferable to watching Robotech! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I believe that with franchises that have pretty much run their course in Japan its easier for more fans to accept them as older forgotten classics from the past and eventually move on, such as with Gatchaman and Golion. With Macross though its a whole different ball game. Macross Fans like us have access to the original classic with no problems, but we constantly see Japan enjoying the latest Macross fads with every new release knowing that HG won't ever let those of us outside of Japan have a piece of it. Had Macross spawned no other sequels fans like us would probably only complain about no official US Release of Macross DYRL for so long and move on as so many Gatchaman, Yamato, Golion, etc, have for the most part. That makes perfect sense. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I miss Captain Donovan. I had hoped he'd stick around and we'd get passed not so much the "hurling insults" part, which is fun, but past the "I like it and have a right to my opinion" part" - which is as boring as a truism can get... I KNOW you have a right to your opinion, like I have a right to mine, and everyone has the right to think what they want. What I WANT to know is WHY you have the opinion you have - beyond just the general explanation that those are your subjective whims/values etc etc etc... Like - I want to know why people actually think that Robotech is a better series than the original Macross? And mind you - by "original Macross" I don't just mean SDFM TV - I mean EVERYTHING that built on that... just like by Robotech I think RT fans don't just mean "the Macross Saga" ... do they? Anyways - why is it a better idea for Protoculture to be a flower rather than an ancient race not unlike ourselves who allowed science to run amock and destroy them, and then tried to preserve their civilization by creating Earth life? Why is it better for the Zendradi to totally go bye-bye after the Macross Saga in Robotech? While they DO show up in "Zendradi Rebellion" the novel - that is no longer "cannon" - right?... So the Zendradi just basically never show up again? Why? What happened to them? Where did they go? Is it really funner to have Invid running around rather than Klan Klan? Not that I like Klan Klan...but heck even she's better than Invid running around...? No - that's wrong. I have nothing against he Inbit either. Invid maybe - but the Inbit are pretty cool, as is a lot of stuff from Mospedia...or was that Southern Cross? I haven't seen either - but I'm sure that when I do - I'll loose even more respect for "Robotech' ...although...can I really loose something I don't have? How can you prefer the dialogue in Robotech? Take the time when Lisa is caught by the Zendradi - literally caught in his hand. Rick shoots him, and Lisa says some sappy crap about how much she loves him, and how she's always loved him... Is that really romantic tension? Is that good romantic writing? I much prefer Misa telling Hikaru that without the microfilm (which was destroyed), she has failed in her mission (aka she speaks as a soldier) and Hikaru saying "I won't leave a girl behind!" (aka treating her not as a soldier, but just as a girl) - and Misa suddenly becomes happy that a man is treating her as a woman rather than purely as an officer. This is subtle, beautiful and creative writing. This is Macross. Robotech trashes all of that and inserts pathos like what I quoted in the above scene. How can you like that? Or maybe there are some stellar literary moments I'm missing. Care to point me to them? Come back. Without you - this thread will just become pictures of Dog Poop. Or am I waiting in vein for a Robotech Defender who will actually sit down here and write a proper defense of the series that will be compelling and thoughtful? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Personally, I only have certain issues with Robotech and its fandom: - Robotech II: The Sentinels is a poorly-animated piece of sh!t and anyone who actually likes it is an imbecile. - Anyone who thinks Macross II/Plus/7/Zero/Frontier are or should be part of RT is a retard. - Anyone who makes a video using Macross II/Plus/7/Zero/Frontier footage and packages it as RT is a dumbass and should be caned in public. - Anyone who thinks Toynami's MPC Veritechs are better than Yamato's Valks should be castrated. The last two are...going a little far, don't you think? I'd settle for them being laughed at for being silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) The last two are...going a little far, don't you think? I'd settle for them being laughed at for being silly. Yeah, especially when they continue to buy products that tend to be of questionable quality, and with the makers having a long history of doing it, yet always give them the benefit of the doubt because of those logos. They're just ill informed consumers. Edited October 27, 2009 by Einherjar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Yeah, especially when they continue to buy products that tend to be of questionable quality, and with the makers having a long history of doing it, yet always give them the benefit of the doubt because of those logos. They're just ill informed consumers. Or they're Yamato fans. But Yamato fans have an excuse! It's like when you see a beautiful woman and buy her and she turns out to be broken. Wait... nevermind. I can't do analogies... Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjar Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) Or they're Yamato fans. But Yamato fans have an excuse! It's like when you see a beautiful woman and buy her and she turns out to be broken. Wait... nevermind. I can't do analogies... Pete Don't they actually try to improve their products and have good customer service to deal with it? They've never had to order an international recall for one toy and make a spectacle of it, right? I don't really know much about Yamato, but I assume they care. Edited October 27, 2009 by Einherjar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Not all dogs eat their poop. JFYI Pete The ones who like Robotech do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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