HG and Robotech Debates

[Einherjar]

If they were serious about doing that, why didn't they just continue the Sentinels?

Technically, they did through the comic books and novels. It was probably considerably cheaper to do in these forms of media.

[Gubaba]

Technically, they did through the comic books and novels. It was probably considerably cheaper to do in these forms of media.

No, I meant instead of Shadow Chronicles.

If, after the failure of RT3000, they realized that fans wanted more Rick Hunter, why didn't they do the Sentinels instead of retconning it out of existence and replacing it with Shadow Chronicles?

(Could it be because the Sentinels story sucked? Nah, that can't be it... )

[VFTF1]

To be honest - I also wonder why they didn't just continue the Sentinels.

The only answer I can come up with is "because they actually don't own the copyright for the character designs of Rick, Lisa, Max and Minmey"

Or the issue is sticky enough that they decided to purge themselves of the problem altogether.

Pete

[HappyPenguins]

To be honest - I also wonder why they didn't just continue the Sentinels.

The only answer I can come up with is "because they actually don't own the copyright for the character designs of Rick, Lisa, Max and Minmey"

Or the issue is sticky enough that they decided to purge themselves of the problem altogether.

Pete

they own the sentinel designs right? or else they would of been in legal trouble when the sentinels movie was released

[Seto Kaiba]

The only answer I can come up with is "because they actually don't own the copyright for the character designs of Rick, Lisa, Max and Minmey"

So far, the only answer Harmony Gold has offered for why they never went back and finished Sentinels was because it'd already exhausted its product cycle in the comic and novel run. Use of the character designs was a non-issue, as they knew full well going into the thing that they couldn't use the Mikimoto designs for Hikaru, Misa, Max, and Minmay, so they created their own that had only a passing resemblance to the originals (Carl Macek said as much in a pre-Robocon 10 interview published in the August '95 comics issues).

[Einherjar]

Or the issue is sticky enough that they decided to purge themselves of the problem altogether.

Good choice of words. They were willing to continue the story in another direction even if it meant writing or killing off beloved characters. It also moves them past the need to explain the unresolved questions about the story they neglected to answer.

[VFTF1]

Hah hah hah.

If HG can see that Sentinels "exhausted its' product cycle" ... then why can't they see that Robotech "exhausted its' product cycle" some 20+ years ago?

I mean - let's face it - HG is an example of one of the biggest failures in business history. It should be taught in business 101: how to f*ck up big time 101....

If HG had played it right, they could have right now been the Hasbro to Big West's Takara. For all of my prefering subbed anime to dubbed and not really caring one way or another if Macross gets on American TV, HG could have becom a big time distributor of Anime.

The lame "because syndication forced us to lengthen the series" excuse is..well..lame.

They should not have done that because it forever tied their hands. They should have just pushed Macross SDFM TV as direct to video and waited out the stupid cartoon wars of the mid-80s. After all, by the 90s, you had cable TV and things like Cartoon channel - those guys wouldn't give a butt sore about 'syndication requiring a longer series" - they would just put SDFM TV on. Then HG could have brought over Macross Plus, maybe even 7 and right now they'd be bringing over Frontier.

But see - other than dubbing, you also need experts in the MUSIC INDUSTRY to do Macross justice.

Or you just bring over official subs and be done with it.

I mean - the fact is, Macross is hugely complicated to "bring over" as a dub because if you're going to dub into english, then you have to dub the music - but the music is EVERYTHING in a Macross series.

So you'd need people who really knew what they were doing in terms of music and animation and those people would not be the mediocre Reba West with her "We Can Win" tune - although of course it's not so much her "fault" as it is the producers at HG who brough her in thinking her songs would be fine for Minmey.

But instead they took what they were seeing as the quick and easy route to profits - do like Hasbro does with Transformers or Kenner with Gobots or Matel with He Man! Just put it on TV and blast out cheap chinese produced toys and you've got money.

The problem is - Harmony Gold apparently didn't realize that there 's a HUGE difference between He Man and Macross. You CAN'T market Macross in the same way you market a cartoon for 5 year olds.

You can't market anime in the same way.

They tried to shoe horn it into the children's cartoon/toy market - and that just doesn't work.

So many mistakes. So much waste.

But if they let it die back then, they would be heros right now for making the attempt and maybe they would also be able to keep working on bringing anime to America without all of the crap history they now have.

As it stands, they made a bad move and haven't let it die.

Pete

[Marzan]

A hypothetical question in this whole debate:

What happens if HG goes completely broke (no website, no comics, no Shadow Rising). Do the international rights for SDFM go up for grabs? Or do they lapse back to Tatsunoko? Any chance Big West caould get it back and finally be able to market all things Macross outside of Japan?

[VFTF1]

I think they'd be for sale and HG would try to sell them to pay off its' eventual debts - if not HG, then the liquidator, or whatever the dude who sells of assets of a bankrupt company is called. They'd sell it to the highest bidder.

Question is - how much is it really worth?

My guess: not much.

Pete

[Freiflug88]

HG could sell their International SDF licenses, but then it would be up to Tatsunko to continue re-licensing to whomever. I don't see much a chance with Big West reacquiring the rights from Tatsunko though. To Big West and Tatsunko the Macross Rights fiasco is more an issue of pride then it is profits, and any amount of money that Big Wests could realistically offer probably wouldn't change Tatsunko minds.

[Einherjar]

HG was able to get Tobey Maguire and his company to agree to a live action movie. I'm thinking there's a misconception in the entertainment business, not the anime business, of what HG has control over their property. There might be many companies interested in Robotech because of the reputation it has, at most for the recognition and money, but are totally unaware of the behind the scenes drama that HG has gone through for it. WB probably learned about this only recently, as we see where progress in the Robotech movie is right now. Presumably, if WB can be fooled, another ambitious company that only knows good things about Robotech's history are going to be willing to invest in it and get an ugly surprise. The legal snarls Robotech and Macross are in may not even be known by people in the mainstream.

Even more so if an influential person in whatever company comes around that encourages the deal sites Robotech to be a big inspiration in their life or turns out to be an old fan. He/she may end up hating the series and the followers behind the scenes.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Einherjar

[VFTF1]

Yeah, that's a good point. I mean - remember, Michael Bay didn't know ANYTHING about Transformers before he was brought on board. Now it's concievable that there are equally clueless, casual Robotech fans at WB or in other HW studios that also don't have the faintest idea about anime or anything.

This is especially true insofar as Holywood has been going through a kind of "let's make that cool cartoon/comic I remember vaguely from when I was 8 years old" kick over the past few years. Not saying that's bad - and heck, I'm part of the demographic that fueled the kick - but often times the people running the show really don't know anything about the thing they're working on.

Given how the majority of Robotech fans who have internet access seem to still find themselves confused about what's what... I can imagine lots of suits being even more in the dark about all this

Pete

[taksraven]

Yeah, that's a good point. I mean - remember, Michael Bay didn't know ANYTHING about Transformers before he was brought on board. Now it's concievable that there are equally clueless, casual Robotech fans at WB or in other HW studios that also don't have the faintest idea about anime or anything.

Its funny, but it seems that people who are clueless about the show that they are making can still do a good effort. Bob Forward and Larry DiTillio, the main writers/editors for Beast Wars were fairly clueless about the original Transformers series but still did some great work. I am sure that there are other examples of this.

Taksraven

[Einherjar]

Its funny, but it seems that people who are clueless about the show that they are making can still do a good effort. Bob Forward and Larry DiTillio, the main writers/editors for Beast Wars were fairly clueless about the original Transformers series but still did some great work. I am sure that there are other examples of this.

Some Robotech fans would say Tommy Yune is one, if only because he finally released a project, albeit an unfinished and unpolished one, to the masses. When it comes to their animated productions, it's definitely a success. Though, because of the expense they had to go through to finish it, it may or may not ruin the company in the long run.

Yeah, yeah, it was an underachiever's success and such, Seto.

[Wanzerfan]

If they were serious about doing that, why didn't they just continue the Sentinels?

Because they like the smell of their own ass-holes from having thier heads crammed up there all the time.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Wanzerfan

[VFTF1]

On that note, I read that Gainax was founded in 1984.

Why do I mention this?

Because around the same time that Harmony Gold were buisy agressively moving to gain market share in accordance with a strategy whose range seemed to be oriented towards next week, the world of anime was changing in a revolutionary way.

There is just so much that HG didn't predict. They really are the American version of Chinese bootleggers. All they see is what is popular this week, and they desperately want to siphon off some profits from it. They don't set trends, they don't think big... they don't think ahead.

The only reason they did Shadow Chronicles is for the same reason they did Robotech:

Back then, they looked around and said "wow. Hasbro, Matel and all these hotshot companies are making money taking crappy animation, cheap asian toys, and putting them together. We need to do some of that!"

Now, they looked around as said "wow, Hasbro is making money by taking all these childhood memories embedded in the culture and riding the nostalgia wave - we need to do that."

Sadly - the nostalgia wave hit its' crescendo in 2007 with the premiere of the Transformers Movie.

That was its' END.

It is now over.

We've happily relived our childhood.

Meanwhile, Hasbro was also planting the seeds of a future nostalgia wave with the Unicron Trilogy, which contributed to killing the recent one - but that's beside the point.

The point is - HG was late to the party again.

I would suggest they try being creative rather than simply following trends.

But that won't happen.

Pete

[Einherjar]

Yup, the Robotech Convention Tour is definitely over for the year:

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...p;pagenumber=10

[BeyondTheGrave]

On that note, I read that Gainax was founded in 1984.

Why do I mention this?

Because around the same time that Harmony Gold were buisy agressively moving to gain market share in accordance with a strategy whose range seemed to be oriented towards next week, the world of anime was changing in a revolutionary way.

There is just so much that HG didn't predict. They really are the American version of Chinese bootleggers. All they see is what is popular this week, and they desperately want to siphon off some profits from it. They don't set trends, they don't think big... they don't think ahead.

The only reason they did Shadow Chronicles is for the same reason they did Robotech:

Back then, they looked around and said "wow. Hasbro, Matel and all these hotshot companies are making money taking crappy animation, cheap asian toys, and putting them together. We need to do some of that!"

Now, they looked around as said "wow, Hasbro is making money by taking all these childhood memories embedded in the culture and riding the nostalgia wave - we need to do that."

Sadly - the nostalgia wave hit its' crescendo in 2007 with the premiere of the Transformers Movie.

That was its' END.

It is now over.

We've happily relived our childhood.

Meanwhile, Hasbro was also planting the seeds of a future nostalgia wave with the Unicron Trilogy, which contributed to killing the recent one - but that's beside the point.

The point is - HG was late to the party again.

I would suggest they try being creative rather than simply following trends.

But that won't happen.

Pete

Could you actually imagine if HG partnerd with Gainax?

Everything would be branded Robotech!

Neon Genesis Robotech

Fooly Tech

Robotech The Shadow Chronicles: Formerly called Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann

The Melody of Robotech

Petite Princess Minmay

The nostalgia wave will never be over as long as someone has a copy of a 80's cartoon series. BUt I hope it is b/c i'm tired of hearing "my childhood has been raped", "why couldn't they follow the source material to the letter" and so on and so forth.

Chinese bootleggers at least see a demand for a product and try to meet that demand. Compared to HG's lets milk a dead cow after it's been dead for 10 years business plan.

[Freiflug88]

HG was able to get Tobey Maguire and his company to agree to a live action movie. I'm thinking there's a misconception in the entertainment business, not the anime business, of what HG has control over their property. There might be many companies interested in Robotech because of the reputation it has, at most for the recognition and money, but are totally unaware of the behind the scenes drama that HG has gone through for it. WB probably learned about this only recently, as we see where progress in the Robotech movie is right now. Presumably, if WB can be fooled, another ambitious company that only knows good things about Robotech's history are going to be willing to invest in it and get an ugly surprise. The legal snarls Robotech and Macross are in may not even be known by people in the mainstream.

I don't think Tobey Maguire and WB care too much about the lack of Macross rights when producing a Robotech movie when they millions of dollars and resources at their disposal to fill in the gaps with the typical Hollywood BS. If Michael Bay was able to pull off Transformers without Kawamori's Diaclone designs that everyone has nostalgic for as the G1 designs than no can say say yet that Tobey Maquire can't pull off Robotech without Kawamori's Macross and Valkaryire designs that only Robotech and Macross fans would remember.

Its also too early to come to conclusions that the lack of Macross rights is holding up progress on the RLAM. Tobey Maguire and company didn't even call HG about acquire Robotech until after Transformers was a box office hit in July 2007 so he and WB have only had Robotech in their hands for a little over two years. Voltron may have a confirmed director and script, but it has been in development since 2004 despite licensing issues of its own.

Could you actually imagine if HG partnerd with Gainax?

Yes I can. The girls in Shadow Chronciles would be animated with the Gainax bounce, Rick Hunter would look like an old Gendo, Maia's color would be Red, and the floating heads would hide behind AT Fields. The movie itself written and directed by HG would still suck giant SDF-1 balls though.

[MastaEgg]

Robotech...was so successful that now Fathom/NCM regularly hosts anime screenings. (Once again Robotech leads the way so other anime can follow)

Yep, Shadow Chronicles was the very first time an anime was screened here in the US.

[Gubaba]

Yep, Shadow Chronicles was the very first time an anime was screened here in the US.

On the subject of Robotech's pioneering efforts, I found this in the "for when more robotech?' thread over at RT.com.

Now, I'm not trying to hold up this member for ridicule or contempt (I'll save that for Pizza the Hutt); this guy (Darkwatch1977) seems like a good enough guy, but I found his post interesting:

Some people had been complaining about the quality of Shadow Chronicles, and Darkwatch1977 first castigated someone for disliking Robotech (as though if you dislike Shadow Chronicles, that means you hate Robotech. Which means that everyone here who dislikes Macross II, or 7, or Zero, or Frontier, I guess you guys aren't Macross fans ).

But it was his defense of Shadow Chronicles that I found most interesting. It's titled "CONTEXT!"

If anyone has watched Robotech lately either on Hulu, Youtube, or on DVD, VHS, Beta, or smoke signals they have to realize that the dialog, animation and overall execution of Robotech is pretty juvenile (by today's standards). But that's not the point. The point is (for me now as an adult) is what RT did for us as kids. Never before has animation dealt (seriously) with topics like death, war, genocide, science, and space exploration. Before RT, cartoons were silly comedies, meant to make people (kids in particular) laugh. What I'm getting to is this; Shadow Chronicles compared to the original RT was light years ahead, the production and 3-D animation was up to par if not surpassed what's on TV these day's. The scene where they showed the earth fleet prior to the Invid battle gave viewers a true sense of depth and dimension. Was it perfect? No, several other animated productions in the last few years were far superior but those movies have producers with names like Lucasfilm, Pixar, and Disney. Saying this, I have to add that the story behind Shadow Chronicles felt rushed, like they were trying to cram a lot of info into the under 2 hour movie. Were it longer or had they shortened the final Invid battle, (since we get the gist of what happens in eps. 84-85), that more could have been done in other more pertinent areas. Other than that, seeing the look on my (at the time) 7-year old's face when he watched Shadow Chronicles was worth all the tea in China.

Do you notice anything missing? Any analogous things he COULD mention, but doesn't?

Never before has animation dealt (seriously) with topics like death, war, genocide, science, and space exploration. Before RT, cartoons were silly comedies, meant to make people (kids in particular) laugh.

In America, yeah. Except of course for Star Blazers, and the works of Ralph Bakshi. In Japan, though, stuff like Southern Cross, and Mospeada were and are pretty standard fare.

No, several other animated productions in the last few years were far superior but those movies have producers with names like Lucasfilm, Pixar, and Disney.

Or Satellite, Gainax, Studio Khara...

So yeah. If you're comparing Shadow Chronicles to other American animated movies, yeah, I guess it's pretty okay. Likewise, if you compare Robotech to other cartoons that were on afternoon syndication in America, it's pretty innovative stuff.

Frontier wipes the floor with Shadow Chronicles...hell, Macross Dynamite 7 wipes the floor with Shadow Chronicles, but if you don't know that those exist, and you're comparing Shadow Chronicles to Pixar movies...well, I think you're missing out.

Again, not trying to rake the guy over the coals, I just think it's an interesting (though wrong) perspective.

Oh, and VFTF1...if you miss Capt. Donovan, he's been pretty active in that same thread recently.

[Jasonc]

Gubaba, do you have a link. I know, I'd look through the threads, but I really can't stand sifting through the tiresome threads there.

[Gubaba]

Gubaba, do you have a link. I know, I'd look through the threads, but I really can't stand sifting through the tiresome threads there.

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...&forumid=31

The post I quoted is at the beginning of page 2 of the thread, so all the build-up is on page 1.

[Einherjar]

He's thinking/associating Robotech as American animation and doesn't know much about anime that is not being distributed in the U.S. maybe.

[RDClip]

On the subject of Robotech's pioneering efforts, I found this in the "for when more robotech?' thread over at RT.com.

Now, I'm not trying to hold up this member for ridicule or contempt (I'll save that for Pizza the Hutt); this guy (Darkwatch1977) seems like a good enough guy, but I found his post interesting:

Some people had been complaining about the quality of Shadow Chronicles, and Darkwatch1977 first castigated someone for disliking Robotech (as though if you dislike Shadow Chronicles, that means you hate Robotech. Which means that everyone here who dislikes Macross II, or 7, or Zero, or Frontier, I guess you guys aren't Macross fans ).

But it was his defense of Shadow Chronicles that I found most interesting. It's titled "CONTEXT!"

Do you notice anything missing? Any analogous things he COULD mention, but doesn't?

In America, yeah. Except of course for Star Blazers, and the works of Ralph Bakshi. In Japan, though, stuff like Southern Cross, and Mospeada were and are pretty standard fare.

Or Satellite, Gainax, Studio Khara...

So yeah. If you're comparing Shadow Chronicles to other American animated movies, yeah, I guess it's pretty okay. Likewise, if you compare Robotech to other cartoons that were on afternoon syndication in America, it's pretty innovative stuff.

Frontier wipes the floor with Shadow Chronicles...hell, Macross Dynamite 7 wipes the floor with Shadow Chronicles, but if you don't know that those exist, and you're comparing Shadow Chronicles to Pixar movies...well, I think you're missing out.

Again, not trying to rake the guy over the coals, I just think it's an interesting (though wrong) perspective.

Oh, and VFTF1...if you miss Capt. Donovan, he's been pretty active in that same thread recently.

Kinda shows the attempt to make Robotech anything but anime, but still rip off the style, character designs and mannerisms of anime. I don't really watch American cartoons, but RT:TSC CG still doesn't look good compared to network sci-fi series, video games or even some non-hollywood movies. If it was made like 10 or 15 years ago i would be impressed, but now the CG could compare to a series like beast wars (or whatever that terrible sequel to it was called) or a video game from the late 90s/mid 2000s.

[VFTF1]

Re: Gubaba's quote ...

Yeah...I read that thinking... Ok - so this guys' range of knwoledge in terms of animation is limited to vauge memories of the Care Bears, Gumy Bears, He-Man and Robotech. I gather that's what he means when he notes that prior to Robotech, all animated shows were "comedies."

And see - this is what happens when you allow a filter to "bring you" your anime. You spend 20 frickin' years under the delusion that "anime" is the two or three things HG brought over AND THAT'S IT.

And you live under the futher delusion that prior to even the Macross Saga - there was nothing but Dennis the Menis.

It's an interesting argument if only because it shows the narrow range and radical limits of people's perception when they discuss this stuff.

And comparing it to Star Wars etc....that's totally daft. There's no point in it.

There was a post somewhere at some point in MW where Graham wrote something to the effect of "I don't want a live action Macross" (I'm quoting from memory so if I botched this, sorry) - but I remember the argument being that actually - anime as a medium is just fine. Not EVERYTHING needs to be made into a live action movie just because it "can."

In fact - it can't.

There will always be a place for books, comic books, movies, and anime as unique mediums.

But...well...whatever... just another Robotech Fan who needs to google "anime" and discover a list of anime produced in Japan between...I dunno...1975 and today to realize how much he's missing out on.

Way to go "bringing anime to America" HG - with fans like those...who needs naysayers?

I mean - seriously - if the argument is "Robotech is cool because unlike Gummy Bears it deals with death and war" then why even bother debunking that?

Pete

[Einherjar]

He might be a newcomer that found out about the site in one way or another (maybe from the Robotech Convention Tour or something). He's also filling the void left by disillusioned fans that got tired of waiting and either left or got booted over the years. If things stay relatively the same through next year, I can see the whole cycle go down again.

That brings up something; besides Macross, are there any anime titles that are very difficult to release outside of Japan only because of legalities? I'm not talking about the financial aspect of certain ones like Legend of Galactic Heroes (that can happen if someone was willing to pony up the money), strictly on the grounds of legalities.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Einherjar

[VFTF1]

Ok - having read this thread: http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...p;pagenumber=10

I am begining to formulate a hypothesis about these opinions that we've been discussing in the last few posts, initially brought up by Gubaba point our attention to it. Here's my hypothesis:

We are Otaku.

They are American pop culture fans.

I know this is a bit of an overgeneralization - but reading the above linked post I get the feeling these are just guys who have ZERO real interest in Japanese anime. Whenever there's a reference in the discussion, it's always Star Wars, and whenever they say "anime" they think of the American anime market, which is NOT - I would venture - what we think of.

They are a totally different galaxy, and that is why we never can communicate on the same wave lengths. Lots of people here watch tons of original Japanese anime, lots of folks prefer subs, and lots of folks want to be fans of things that are happening in Japan, and not necessarily of the filtered versions that trickle into America - if at all.

Meanwhile, the dudes over there - they are just regular nice American popculture fans who have a fond place in their heart for the 80s cartoons.

But they seem to have never moved beyond that - and actually gotten into anime. They are not Otaku.

I'm not saying that to judge them as worse than us - but I'm saying it's impossible and pointless to argue with them because they are coming from a different place then we are - a place where there is no Gundam, no Ideon, no Zambot 3, no Haruhi Suzumiya, no Macross 7, where DYRL was Clash of the Bionoides sometimes, but most of the time DYRL just WASN'T even there. Where Megazone is a failed Robotech Movie.

This is why we fight and do not understand eachother.

I mean - just look what Kevin McKeever says in what has to be the best line illustrating this point:

This is going to be shocking to some but EVERY film/TV/Anime company often gives fans nothing concrete for years on end. It’s not endemic to Harmony Gold. Look at Star Trek for 7 years there was nothing coming from them on the film front. There was a solid 4 years of nothing. (2005-2009) There latest project was hit with delays .Remember how the Star Trek movie was to come out in Christmas 2008 but was pushed back until May 2009.

So - notice please that the tendency to make wierd comparissons of an anime to things like Disney, Pixar etc comes from the top. "Every film/TV/Anime company..." and then he goes on to draw an analogy to...Star Trek. This is something rampant in the RT community. They keep drawing analogies to Star Wars, Star Trek - live action shows that have NOTHING TO DO WITH ANIME.

That would be like me trying to judge the failure or success of Macross by comparing it to Ang Lee's movies, or to the Seven Samuarii. I mean - of course you can make cross-genre comparissons - but these guys do it as if the genres were the SAME - aka - "science fiction." But as WE well know, 'science fiction' and 'anime' are NOT always the same. Asimov is not anime. Dune is not anime. Star Trek is not anime. And anime is not always science fiction.

But the reason these comparissons are always de-rigur at Robotech.com is because they DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT JAPANESE ANIME.

When they use the term anime THIS is what they are thinkin (again Kevin McKeever gives us a good view):

Here is something else to think about as well over the past 4 years since Destin’s first post on the subject Central Park Media, Newtype Magazine, Geneon, Anime Insider and ADV all share something in common.

They were major players in the anime world that all now out of business. Many of the other surviving anime companies here in North America have had numerous rounds of layoffs. Yet little ol Harmony Gold and Robotech is still here and doing quite well.

THAT is "anime" for Robotech fans. THAT. Namely Central Park Media, Newtype Magazine, Geneon, Anime Inside and ADV.

Not Gainax, not Tomino or Anno or Mikimoto. Not Bandai and Kadokowa.

Now, the fact that all of these companies that Kevin cites, not to mention HG, all try to make their money by marketing Japanese anime in America after repackaging it and "westernizing it" in one way, shape or form is - to them - totally immaterial.

For Robotech fans, when you say that an anime is "from Japan" that's the equivalent of saying "you Macintosh was made in China."

See - it's Macintosh, the American company, which is what counts. The "made in China" part always brings to mind visions of sweat shops. Never once to people think that that means there are skilled and well educated workers and engineers in China and that there is a great economic climate with low taxes and no unnecessarily high costs of labor in China. Nope. It's just sweat shops.

Same with "Japanese anime." It's just the "sweat shops" are over there in Japan - that's where soulless, faceless Japanese people make this stuff, but it only becomes NORMAL and WORTH marketing and watching after companies like HG and the bankrupt "anime" companies Kevin cited "westernize it."

So - again - we, as original Macross fans and by and large dedicated Gaijin-Otaku, are in a different universe from them.

For us, Anime is what is happening in Japan right now, it's not what is happening to middle men and filter companies on the American domestic market.

None of the companies Kevin cited have ever actually MADE an anime of note- not that I've heard of at least. I HAVE heard, however, that they brought over some good anime.

And for some people - like me - when something good is "brought over" it makes me interested in the country and culture that it's "brought" from - and I want to see it as the Japanese see it and enjoy it as real otaku do.

For other people, like these Robotech fans - it's just enough that it's "cool."

They have no clue about otaku culture in Japan and to them it's just "made in Japan= made in Chinese sweat shop" - and they remain blisffuly ignorant, convinced that everything creative and cool surely must be made in the USA by the likes of HG which thought up Robotech (Carl Macek) and just happened to get the anime drawn by those Japanese guys who apparently draw for cheap like the Chinese make t-shirts and sweat pants we can get in Walmart for cheap....

That's the way I think it is.

Pete

[taksraven]

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...&forumid=31

The post I quoted is at the beginning of page 2 of the thread, so all the build-up is on page 1.

Its always funny to read that sort of thing. I bet the irony that the "haters" of RT and HG are generally Macross fans, fans of the one part of Robotech that most like the best, really bugs the hell out of a lot of them.

And another thing I was thinking about with the Sentinels Vs. Shadow Chronicles comparison. If I really HAD to choose I think I would prefer Sentinels because it had a lot of diversity as well as elements from all three RT shows. Thats not to say that it was good, but it looked like more than Mospeada +.

Taksraven

[MacrossCN]

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...&forumid=31

http://au.eonline.com/uberblog/b155112_tob...ehaal_talk.html

Maguire did confirm that he is developing a big-screen version of the classic Japanese anime series Robotech with Warner Bros.

"We're working on it," he said. Smallville scribes Alfred Gough and Miles Millar are cranking on the script, and Maguire may star, as well as produce.

But first, he will be working the Brothers publicity trail with Portman and doppelgänger Gyllenhaal.

The script is START!! Maybe it will release in 2027!!

Congrats!!

^^

Edited November 24, 2009 by kresphy

[Marzan]

http://au.eonline.com/uberblog/b155112_tob...ehaal_talk.html

Maguire did confirm that he is developing a big-screen version of the classic Japanese anime series Robotech with Warner Bros.

"We're working on it," he said. Smallville scribes Alfred Gough and Miles Millar are cranking on the script, and Maguire may star, as well as produce.

But first, he will be working the Brothers publicity trail with Portman and doppelgänger Gyllenhaal.

The script is START!! Maybe it will release in 2027!!

Congrats!!

^^

By then Maguire will maybe able to play Captain Global...

[Marzan]

http://au.eonline.com/uberblog/b155112_tob...ehaal_talk.html

Maguire did confirm that he is developing a big-screen version of the classic Japanese anime series Robotech with Warner Bros.

"We're working on it," he said. Smallville scribes Alfred Gough and Miles Millar are cranking on the script, and Maguire may star, as well as produce.

But first, he will be working the Brothers publicity trail with Portman and doppelgänger Gyllenhaal.

The script is START!! Maybe it will release in 2027!!

Congrats!!

^^

Also please note that they call it "classic Japanese anime series Robotech". That must really irritate the folks down at HG.

The guys who did Smallville are doing the script?? Talk about starting on the wrong foot...

[VFTF1]

Also please note that they call it "classic Japanese anime series Robotech". That must really irritate the folks down at HG.

Actually, it irritates ME.

Because "Robotech" is NOT a "classic Japanese anime series."

Please point me towards the original "classic Japanese anime series" named Robotech.

Please show me someone, anyone in Japan who remembers watching "Robotech" alongside other classic Japanese anime series like Gundam, Ideon, Orgus etc etc...

And even if they do have a script - I DON'T CARE.

I am not a Robotech fan. They could make seven live action movies in the next year and win fifty oscars and make a trillion dollars - I don't care.

I've been a fan of Transformers since I was 4 years old - and not even 26 years of being an active Transformers fan could get me to go watch ROTF.

I was never a fan of Robotech and I am, due to everything HG has done, an avid anti-fan of Robotech - so there's no way I'm going to go see that movie.

And the fact that they call it a "classic Japanese anime" just proves my point that these people do not know what anime is, have no clue what Japanese anime is, and use the term to mean something completely different from what real otaku understand it to be.

Pete

[terry the lone wolf]

I never heard of HG ever being credited with being the 1st U.S. company to import anime but they were the first not to treat as merely kid's stuff. Characters drank alchol, bedded each other, and eventually died. This was not swept under the rug like Voltron or The Battle of the Planets shows were. RT was good Science Fiction for a children's market. There was a reason the College crowd picked up on it. It was for that time pretty innovative for a kid's cartoon. I don't see a big problem in HG's marketing of RT because the anime market of the 80's America hadn't matured to what it became during the 90's.

[Gubaba]

I never heard of HG ever being credited with being the 1st U.S. company to import anime but they were the first not to treat as merely kid's stuff. Characters drank alchol, bedded each other, and eventually died. This was not swept under the rug like Voltron or The Battle of the Planets shows were. RT was good Science Fiction for a children's market. There was a reason the College crowd picked up on it. It was for that time pretty innovative for a kid's cartoon. I don't see a big problem in HG's marketing of RT because the anime market of the 80's America hadn't matured to what it became during the 90's.

Star Blazers was edited a bit, but they still left some "mature themes" in there.