HG and Robotech Debates

[VFTF1]

if you tell RT fans Rick, Lisa and Minmay fell into a black hole somewhere or tell them "God knows", they'll probably try and stone you to death.

But isn't that basically what Shadow Chronicles told them? ...

Pete

[Keith]

But isn't that basically what Shadow Chronicles told them? ...

Pete

"Hi, I'm Rick Hunter, don't worry about saving this perfectly functional ship containing the only remaining ultimate deus ex fuel source in the universe, go save that other ship that's all busted up with a dead crew & big titied robot, we'll be fine!"

Edited November 20, 2009 by Keith

[Keith]

Looking at things, you can see that the Megaroad-01 was still in contact for a good couple years before going awol. I believe it was an intentional choice. Likely Misa took a vote with all the crew & colonists, didn't necessarily like the way the new government was going back into its old ways, and decided to go solo & start up something new themselves.

[Einherjar]

"Hi, I'm Rick Hunter, don't worry about saving this perfectly functional ship containing the only remaining ultimate deus ex fuel source in the universe, go save that other ship that's all busted up with a dead crew & big titied robot, we'll be fine!"

"If you want to find out what happens to Rick Hunter and co., please give HG more money!"

If the fans don't support them financially, they'll never find out the conclusion. Worst motivator ever.

[VFTF1]

Looking at things, you can see that the Megaroad-01 was still in contact for a good couple years before going awol. I believe it was an intentional choice. Likely Misa took a vote with all the crew & colonists, didn't necessarily like the way the new government was going back into its old ways, and decided to go solo & start up something new themselves.

Yes - I could see that happening.

Especially given that Misa decided to leave the military at the end of the series - now I know she reneged on that when Global offered her command of the mission to take humanity to the stars.

But consider please WHY she agreed to stay. Was it for the promotion's sake? For money and perks? No - it was for the importance of the mission - spreading culture and preserving humanity in the universe.

So by that time Misa had given up on the government and on politics - she'd adopted the MW policy - and rightly so, because she learned that nothing but strife, sadness and mass death can come of people arguing over politics and being political.

But of course she did not give up her idealism that initially brought her into the services to begin with - and that's why she took the mission.

Now I'm certain that at the first opportunity, seeing that Earth politics was corrupt, she would go AWOL, and the Megaroad 1 would effectively become an independent city in space - a new chance for humanity to leave behind all the pain and suffering and try to achieve something new and beautiful together.

So - yeah - I agree. She would do that.

And then she'd go bake some cake and play with her kids

....

Oh wait... we're off topic again...

CAN'T YOU GUYS STOP TALKING ABOUT MACROS!?!? THIS IS THE ROBOTECH THREAD!! STOP ALL THESE INTERESTING SPECULATIONS ABOUT MACROSS DAG NABBIT :)

Now let's talk about ROBOTECH!!!

So - what's up with that Rick Hunter and his black hole and his white hair??

Uh...that Rick Hunter - boy...did he ever have an awesome cameo in Shadow Chronicles.

Do you remember that? It was like my dreams of 20 years come true in 20 seconds. Or maybe 2 seconds. In any event - wow! Rick Hunter back on the big screen! The Admiral himself.

Yadee yadee yadee....

Where's Memo when you need him??

Maybe we can go back to the size of the SDF-1?

I'm still said Capt. Donovan has abandoned us

Repetitive Pete

[MastaEgg]

At least the Macross gang were sorta recognizable in the Sentinels. They pretty much took the designs and westernized them.

[VFTF1]

Ah...don't even get me started on Sentinels.

Mi..I mean "Lisa" ... her hair...in Sentinels...oh...HORRIBLE!!! I mean - talk about static cling! It looked like they thought to themselves "what would she look like if we flipped her upside down and rubbed her head against a carpet over and over for an hour?" Terrible!

And then their clothing.... I mean - ok - I know that in SDFM TV they had "tight" fitting 70s super robot style space suits - but they were no where NEAR as horrible as what Sentinels put on them... like some crossbread of Star Strek and Super man.

The DYRL uniforms and designs are light years better than the horrible stuff that Admiral Hunter wears in Sentinels.

And Max - poor poor Max. He looks horrible. I don't know what else to say on this score.

But of course Bretai came off the worse. Off with his regal clock and into spandex tights! They widened his chest and gave him a helment that looked like something out of He-Man and the Masters of the Universe.

And then they make him carry girls around on his shoulders.

nooooooooooooo!!

Of course, the most obvious flaw are all the Alphas and Betas. It has always perplexed me that Robotech fans had such a hard time accepting that these were three different anime. I mean - for goodness sake - there is NO design continuity between the VF-1 and the Alpha and Treads. None. Zero. I mean - except for the three mode conversion I guess... but they are worlds apart.

As for the new additions - Jack and Karen - you know what gets me about these guys?

The idea was to kind of "re-do" Rick and Lisa, with Jack being the up and coming pilot and Karen being...the woman? The prickly woman? I dunno - whatever - but I just can't stand this duo. First of all, it's so obvious from the begining that they're meant to be together - I mean - there's like no doubt, not like in Macross where the love triangle kept you guessing until the very end - it's just "these are the two that are meant to be together" Yeah, they'll argue, but it's not like either of them ever actually doesn't end up being together or suggesting it...

I dunno...

I'm seriously getting the feeling that we spend more time talking about Robotech than they do at RT.com

Pete

[Einherjar]

As for the new additions - Jack and Karen - you know what gets me about these guys?

The idea was to kind of "re-do" Rick and Lisa, with Jack being the up and coming pilot and Karen being...the woman? The prickly woman? I dunno - whatever - but I just can't stand this duo. First of all, it's so obvious from the begining that they're meant to be together - I mean - there's like no doubt, not like in Macross where the love triangle kept you guessing until the very end - it's just "these are the two that are meant to be together" Yeah, they'll argue, but it's not like either of them ever actually doesn't end up being together or suggesting it...

I dunno...

It didn't get any better decades later when they did the same thing to Marcus Rush and Maia Stirling (or is it a Max and Miriya repeat because of their names?). Either way, hot shot pilot - high ranking commanding officer with spunk, space racist - alien hybrid, same thing. In fact, there are a lot of parallels between The Sentinels and Shadow Chronicles that makes HG look like they haven't learned anything between the two productions. Most important of all of them is that they couldn't finish the story and left both of them off at cliffhangers, and they're now considered "pilots" for a new series or chapter of Robotech that may or may not get done.

[Freiflug88]

That is actually a very good point.

But that would leave only one candidate for Minmey and Hikaru's child:

Honey

Pete

"She's the sort of girl who's always in fashion

And her behind is the cutest one we know of

Please look my way Honey!"

Sounds like just the kind of girl for you Pete!

BTW, in Robotech, her name would be Rick Rolled, because everyone would be expecting Zor!

Looking at things, you can see that the Megaroad-01 was still in contact for a good couple years before going awol. I believe it was an intentional choice. Likely Misa took a vote with all the crew & colonists, didn't necessarily like the way the new government was going back into its old ways, and decided to go solo & start up something new themselves.

In other words we have Misa pulling an Apollo and suggesting that everyone would be better off going native on some planet and set the Megaroad on course with a sun in the middle of the galaxy.

Then I assume Hikaru Ichijo turns out to be an angel or something and disappears into thin air leaving Misa and Minmay to become passionate lesbians, and we all know Misa will be the male in the relationship. Meanwhile Misa's baby is left neglicted to grow up into an angsty teenager to pilot a giant mecha someday.

"If you want to find out what happens to Rick Hunter and co., please give HG more money!"

If the fans don't support them financially, they'll never find out the conclusion. Worst motivator ever.

Fantastic! Where do I find this "Money for Robotech" fund? I could use a spot to dump all my counterfeit cash. I put Roy Fokker's face on all of them because all of presidential quotes in Robotech confused me. .

[Desty_Nova]

Someone at my workplace is familiar with robotech and watched the whole thing when he was younger. I offered to lend him all the macross shows but he declined saying he knew it was better but didn't want to ruin his memories of robotech.

Later, in a bar he overheard me discussing macross with a freind and said something like 'BAh! Robotech rules!" I don't know him very well but I think he was just joking.

[Jasonc]

"If you want to find out what happens to Rick Hunter and co., please give HG more money!"

If the fans don't support them financially, they'll never find out the conclusion. Worst motivator ever.

That always bugged me when Kevin and co. would say that. Now, I don't care, but then, it was always "you need to spread the word so that people will buy Robotech. If you complain about Robotech, they'll punish us by not telling us anything or giving us anything." Can't feel bad for the fans though, they put themselves in that defenseless, threatened position.

[Marzan]

It didn't get any better decades later when they did the same thing to Marcus Rush and Maia Stirling (or is it a Max and Miriya repeat because of their names?). Either way, hot shot pilot - high ranking commanding officer with spunk, space racist - alien hybrid, same thing. In fact, there are a lot of parallels between The Sentinels and Shadow Chronicles that makes HG look like they haven't learned anything between the two productions. Most important of all of them is that they couldn't finish the story and left both of them off at cliffhangers, and they're now considered "pilots" for a new series or chapter of Robotech that may or may not get done.

I don't think it'll ever get done. They have almost no money, and let's face it, if you're a producer and Tommy Yune comes up to u with a proposal, you look at the track record and say, "No way. This franchise may have some very devoted fans, but let's face it hasn't been a mainstream hit for a quarter of a century now"

[Seto Kaiba]

I don't think it'll ever get done. They have almost no money, and let's face it, if you're a producer and Tommy Yune comes up to u with a proposal, you look at the track record and say, "No way. This franchise may have some very devoted fans, but let's face it hasn't been a mainstream hit for a quarter of a century now"

I don't think anyone here would disagree with you when you say that Robotech will probably never actually finish a story. It's not just that they're too bloody inept to actually make new material on their own, but they're deathly afraid of having a situation where they can't sell the sequel on the basis of tie-ins to Macross, because they know that that's about all that's keeping what's left of their fanbase watching. Of late, it's become so obvious that Harmony Gold will likely never finish the Shadow Chronicles that even the rank and file Robotech fans have started to take notice and have begun to ask uncomfortable questions.

If anything, the strangest part of this whole situation is what despite all of Kevin McKeever's protestations that it's a great time to be a Robotech fan, and that the franchise is "going gangbusters", other Harmony Gold representatives have made it no secret that they're short of money and having a great deal of trouble finding people willing to invest in a new animated Robotech feature. Tommy Yune himself has gone on the record at convention panels to say that Harmony Gold put the brakes on Shadow Rising in the hope that the live-action movie would raise Robotech's profile enough to net them some better sponsorship deals for Shadow Rising. It's not hard to see why they have to pin all their hopes for the future on the live-action movie... any potential investor who isn't a complete buffoon is going to take a good long look at the current state of affairs in the Robotech franchise and Harmony Gold's track record, and laugh themselves sick before politely declining and walking away.

[Marzan]

I don't think anyone here would disagree with you when you say that Robotech will probably never actually finish a story. It's not just that they're too bloody inept to actually make new material on their own, but they're deathly afraid of having a situation where they can't sell the sequel on the basis of tie-ins to Macross, because they know that that's about all that's keeping what's left of their fanbase watching. Of late, it's become so obvious that Harmony Gold will likely never finish the Shadow Chronicles that even the rank and file Robotech fans have started to take notice and have begun to ask uncomfortable questions.

If anything, the strangest part of this whole situation is what despite all of Kevin McKeever's protestations that it's a great time to be a Robotech fan, and that the franchise is "going gangbusters", other Harmony Gold representatives have made it no secret that they're short of money and having a great deal of trouble finding people willing to invest in a new animated Robotech feature. Tommy Yune himself has gone on the record at convention panels to say that Harmony Gold put the brakes on Shadow Rising in the hope that the live-action movie would raise Robotech's profile enough to net them some better sponsorship deals for Shadow Rising. It's not hard to see why they have to pin all their hopes for the future on the live-action movie... any potential investor who isn't a complete buffoon is going to take a good long look at the current state of affairs in the Robotech franchise and Harmony Gold's track record, and laugh themselves sick before politely declining and walking away.

I think Kevin McKeever has been drinking too much kool aid lately.

I think HG need to find themselves other products they can develop. Maybe bring some other anime titles to America or try to fix the whole legal conundrum with the Macross franchise (mission impossible I know). Resting on the expectation of a live action Robotech success seems totally naive. If a franchise as popular as Dragonball that appeals to the main cinema demographic (teens) totally bombed, then what hope is there for some other anime products? Evangelion has been in development hell for years and Cowboy Bebop has been delayed every year. At least the last one has the advantage of a major Hollywood star backing it.

[Wanzerfan]

Now if there was someplace that would stream the various Macross series without any...

...excrement from HG or Big West for free, there would probably be a lot of happy people here.

[VFTF1]

It's not just that they're too bloody inept to actually make new material on their own, but they're deathly afraid of having a situation where they can't sell the sequel on the basis of tie-ins to Macross, because they know that that's about all that's keeping what's left of their fanbase watching.

If this is literally radically true, then I would have to say that those Robotech fans are forever lost - they will NEVER get into original Macross for the simple reason that MACROSS does not exactly explain what happened to the characters either...

That said..

I find it hard to believe that the whole fandom really is that eager to find out.

I mean - it's not like Rick and Lisa didn't have an extraordinarily good run. Minmei too. Say want you want about the novels being sometimes more sometimes less cheesy, but they go into exquisite detail in terms of where they take these characters.

Isn't that enough?

I know they retconned the novels out of existence - but if that's the case...then... what exactly IS Robotech continuity? Does Sentinels even happen? Because it does in the novels and the firs three episodes do exist. So what's up with that?

Like...or is it just the original 84 or whatever episodes and then Shadow Chronicles? Which would actually make little sense since nothing in Shadow Chronicles is even REMOTELY comprehensible without familiarity with the novels and Sentinels cartoon...

Pete

[Freiflug88]

I think Kevin McKeever has been drinking too much kool aid lately.

I think HG need to find themselves other products they can develop. Maybe bring some other anime titles to America or try to fix the whole legal conundrum with the Macross franchise (mission impossible I know). Resting on the expectation of a live action Robotech success seems totally naive. If a franchise as popular as Dragonball that appeals to the main cinema demographic (teens) totally bombed, then what hope is there for some other anime products? Evangelion has been in development hell for years and Cowboy Bebop has been delayed every year. At least the last one has the advantage of a major Hollywood star backing it.

Dragonball Evoultion was like Shadow Chronicles, it was successly merely because it was such a cheap movie to produce and was able to profit from popularity of the franchise alone. As for Cowboy Bebop its getting a new rewritten script because apparently Fox doesn't like that the estimated cost to produce the current script is $500 million dollars, most of it is probably the cost of major Hollwood star backing.

[Einherjar]

I know they retconned the novels out of existence - but if that's the case...then... what exactly IS Robotech continuity? Does Sentinels even happen? Because it does in the novels and the firs three episodes do exist. So what's up with that?

Like...or is it just the original 84 or whatever episodes and then Shadow Chronicles? Which would actually make little sense since nothing in Shadow Chronicles is even REMOTELY comprehensible without familiarity with the novels and Sentinels cartoon...

I like how they explained the situation on Republibot when talking about the PTTSC.

http://www.republibot.com/content/comics-n...adow-chronicles

“Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles,” was part of the semi-nonexistent (or “Viral”) media blitz leading up to the release of the Shadow Chronicles DVD back in 2006. A five-issue miniseries, it was supposed to bridge the gap between the end of the first ‘era’ of Robotech (Which ended around 2014 or so), and the start of the movie (About 2044 or so). That’s an awful lot of ‘offstage’ time to fill us in on in only a hundred or so pages, including adds. Predictably and disappointingly, “Prelude” doesn’t even try, and instead it just concentrates on a period of about a year immediately prior to the start of the movie.

Now, on the face of it, this makes a degree of sense as that whole period had already been chronicled by the “Jack McKiney” novelizations of a series that never aired to begin with, right? Well, kinda: but Robotech II was supposed to be a multi-generational story just like the original Robotech was, and the “Sentinels” part was only supposed to be one of the three generations there, starting out about halfway between the first and second ‘eras’ of the original Robotech series, and ending a few years later, so even with those crappy novels (Which I’ve been unable to plow through) we’re still missing 20 years or so intervening time between when we last saw Rick and Lisa, and the time we meet them again in the DVD movie. More frustrating still is the fact that screenwriter Tommy Yune and others have bristled (Quite rightly) at the thought of being hamstrung by the cannon of a series that was never even filmed in the first place. Thus they’ve made changes to the already-fragmentary “Sentinels” story. Thus: “Prelude” is a coda to a story we never heard nor saw, which is substantially different than the story everyone had been told was coming up.

That’s a bit hard to follow, so let me put it another way: Let’s say that Star Trek: The Next Generation were suddenly *Removed* in it’s entirety from the Trek Cannon, and replaced with a very similar, but fundamentally different show which we’ll call “Star Trek:Retcon” – and this “Retcon” show has some of the same characters, and some of the same events, but also a lot of people you’ve never heard of, and a lot of events that you’ve never heard of, and here’s the kicker: although it may actually be a thousand times better and altogether-less-lame than TNG was, *you don’t get to actually see it!* That’s right: We’d just jump from the Star Trek movies of the 80s to Deep Space 9, with no explanation of what you missed aside from occasional vague references to people you’ve never heard of doing things you never heard about on a show you’ll never be allowed to see, mentioned in dialog now and again on DS9. And then someone decides to make a comic book wrapping up the story you know nothing about.

It’s damn frustrating.

And if was a bigger success, maybe HG would have clued people into what this new background story was like.

[Seto Kaiba]

Now if there was someplace that would stream the various Macross series without any...

...excrement from HG or Big West for free, there would probably be a lot of happy people here.

That's what fansubs are for, chief.

If this is literally radically true, then I would have to say that those Robotech fans are forever lost - they will NEVER get into original Macross for the simple reason that MACROSS does not exactly explain what happened to the characters either...

It's certainly no secret that discovering what became of Rick Hunter and the SDF-3 was one of the major selling points for the Shadow Chronicles movie and figured prominently in the pre-release hype. Likewise the old, failed Robotech II: the Sentinels series was advertised as the "continuing adventures" of the Macross Saga cast. Even Carl Macek admits that a lack of tie-ins to the story of the "original series" was a major factor in the failures of Robotech: the Untold Story and Robotech 3000.

So, yes... I think it's quite accurate to say that they're deathly afraid of parting ways with the last few Macross characters. Every time they've tried, the project has gone down in flames and joined the ranks of Robotech shows so bad even the Robotech fans hate them.

I can definitely see there being a few Robotech fans who don't want to make the switch because Macross doesn't give every last detail of Hikaru Ichijyo's married life, but those are the sort of people who've been obsessively following Star Wars expanded universe to find out what flavor of toothpaste Luke Skywalker uses or whatever passes for plot there these days. I'd wager that most of them will just be happy to have a show that doesn't keep jerking them around as part of a neverending game of bait-and-switch.

[Keith]

"Expanded Universe," that's not SW, that's not even Battle Beyond The Stars...

[taksraven]

And if was a bigger success, maybe HG would have clued people into what this new background story was like.

*giggle* I doubt it.

Taksraven

[taksraven]

That's what fansubs are for, chief.

It's certainly no secret that discovering what became of Rick Hunter and the SDF-3 was one of the major selling points for the Shadow Chronicles movie and figured prominently in the pre-release hype. Likewise the old, failed Robotech II: the Sentinels series was advertised as the "continuing adventures" of the Macross Saga cast. Even Carl Macek admits that a lack of tie-ins to the story of the "original series" was a major factor in the failures of Robotech: the Untold Story and Robotech 3000.

So, yes... I think it's quite accurate to say that they're deathly afraid of parting ways with the last few Macross characters. Every time they've tried, the project has gone down in flames and joined the ranks of Robotech shows so bad even the Robotech fans hate them.

As I have noted before, it was clear with Shadow Chronicles that the real HG priority was showing the door to the Invid, introducing the Haydonites as the replacement enemy that HG owns completely and utterly (no legal arguments there), and then trying to flush as much continuity from the other Robotech components down the toilet. Its just a real wonder that they did not replace the RDF mecha from Mospeada with new ones that they completely owned as well, but that would have been a massive cost increase and given their track record would have looked like crap.

They clearly tried the same stunt in Robotech 3000, here is a bunch of stuff that HG has created completely and we do not have anymore copyright issues with anybody else.

I have no sympathy for such a cynical company.

Taksraven

[VFTF1]

Well,

I was reading the thread on Robotech.com about their continuity, and it sounds a lot like Transformers, with that Yune guy being like "just respect everybody's right to enjoy Robotech from whatever angle they want - novels, comics, cartoon etc" and then people arguing over whether there is a cannon or not.

It's a jumbled mess.

Personally, I guess it doesn't reall matter that much to me, and it's not like Macross itself (and every other show out there) doesn't sometimes run into these "problems."

In the end, Robotech continuity is a secondary problem. The main problem is that, independent of continuity - I just don't think it's as good as Macross.

Pete

[Einherjar]

Personally, I guess it doesn't reall matter that much to me, and it's not like Macross itself (and every other show out there) doesn't sometimes run into these "problems."

But aren't most of these behind the scenes shake ups in Robotech just a lot of do overs for them? People are investing their money in a lot of this when HG is still making their mind about a bunch of things. How many tries do they need to get whatever they're trying to do right?

From the other side, how many tries can fans be willing to let HG do this to Robotech and still support it?

Edited November 22, 2009 by Einherjar

[taksraven]

From the other side, how many tries can fans be willing to let HG do this to Robotech and still support it?

Well, if there are die-hard RT fan who are still waiting for HG to do the show some sort of deranged justice and they are still hanging around I think it says a lot about their stupid stubborn mentality and thats why its not even worth trying to argue with them.

Taksraven

[Jasonc]

In this whole argument about continuing stories that should be left alone or not, it's quite easy to see the end results of the two sides. Macross has, for the most part, created new main characters for every series they've done, along with different sections of time. Because of this, if there isn't a certain part of a story of say, your favorite character, that isn't told, you can simply speculate, and talk about it, like how we kinda did for a bit here. The fans aren't left with the whole package, but get to engage the imagination more than having it all laid out.

With Robotech, it has all been clumped into one big cast, and the problem they perpetuate, is that they have had such fear in just moving away from the bootlegged originals, that they no longer can, or feel they no longer can without losing their fans. They've boxed the imagination of the fanbase into this tiny box that only speculates on issues that were animation vs script discrepencies, and tries to fit them so that it makes sense. Either that, or the size of the SDF-1. It seems that's what seperate Macross fans from Robotech fans. We don't need everything spelled out for us. Now, I'm not saying that about all Robotech fans, cause some just watch it cause they know it and its accessibility. I think that applies to more the die hard elitist RT fans, whose biggest goal in life is to see what happens to their favorite war criminal, Rick Hunter.

[Marzan]

In the end, Robotech continuity is a secondary problem. The main problem is that, independent of continuity - I just don't think it's as good as Macross.

Pete

And that's all there is to it.

I'll always have a soft spot for Robotech, because it was one of the first anime I ever saw, but afer watching a lot of anime later in life, its limitations become painfully clear. And the Macross franchise has its highs and lows, but its highs are somewhere up in the clouds where HG can only dream of.

[Beltane70]

As I have noted before, it was clear with Shadow Chronicles that the real HG priority was showing the door to the Invid, introducing the Haydonites as the replacement enemy that HG owns completely and utterly (no legal arguments there), and then trying to flush as much continuity from the other Robotech components down the toilet. Its just a real wonder that they did not replace the RDF mecha from Mospeada with new ones that they completely owned as well, but that would have been a massive cost increase and given their track record would have looked like crap.

They clearly tried the same stunt in Robotech 3000, here is a bunch of stuff that HG has created completely and we do not have anymore copyright issues with anybody else.

I have no sympathy for such a cynical company.

Taksraven

The problem with Robotech 3000 wasn't HG being cynical. It was the fact the fans rejected it. From what I've seen, and Seto will agree, is that the fans don't want all new designs. They want things that they're already familiar with, not something completely new and original.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Beltane70

[taksraven]

The problem with Robotech 3000 wasn't HG being cynical. It was the fact the fans rejected it. From what I've seen, and Seto will agree, is that the fans don't want all new designs. They want things that they're already familiar with, not something completely new and original.

No, I think that they were being absolutely cynical with the RT 3000 production and thats why fans rejected it. It was going to be a product that they owned completely with no old designs or characters (therefore no money or legal issues with the Japanese). It was only even going to be new and original for these reasons and it must have bugged the shite out of HG that it screwed up so badly.

Taksraven

[Einherjar]

No, I think that they were being absolutely cynical with the RT 3000 production and thats why fans rejected it. It was going to be a product that they owned completely with no old designs or characters (therefore no money or legal issues with the Japanese). It was only even going to be new and original for these reasons and it must have bugged the shite out of HG that it screwed up so badly.

Maybe that's when HG realized they were not directly responsible for the success they had in the past at all; at least when it comes to animation, it was the material and talent of other people, some who they've alienated ever since, that got them to where they are up to now.

[taksraven]

Maybe that's when HG realized they were not directly responsible for the success they had in the past at all; at least when it comes to animation, it was the material and talent of other people, some who they've alienated ever since, that got them to where they are up to now.

Thats quite possible. It could have been the stage when they realised that they didn't have the "Midas touch". BUT, if they believed that they did so beforehand they were absolute fools. But who would be surprised by that possiblity?

Taksraven

[Jasonc]

The problem with Robotech 3000 wasn't HG being cynical. It was the fact the fans rejected it. From what I've seen, and Seto will agree, is that the fans don't want all new designs. They want things that they're already familiar with, not something completely new and original.

The fans have been groomed with the belief that HG will finish the story with the SDF-3. No future to look forward to, no bigger scope of story, just that small box. After 25 years going on, and being stuck with no new designs, it appears that what is there now, is all the fans want to know and be familiar with. HG has hindered the fans, and the fans haven't even known it, and yet, some of them like being in that state of degradation. After reading Tommy's story ideas for Shadow Rising, it does appear that they may only want to do 2 animated features. It does appear they don't have the creativity or will to continue the series. It must be hard work having to deal with fans in general. Every one of them believe they have the answers to save their precious Robotech.

[Gubaba]

The fans have been groomed with the belief that HG will finish the story with the SDF-3. No future to look forward to, no bigger scope of story, just that small box. After 25 years going on, and being stuck with no new designs, it appears that what is there now, is all the fans want to know and be familiar with. HG has hindered the fans, and the fans haven't even known it, and yet, some of them like being in that state of degradation. After reading Tommy's story ideas for Shadow Rising, it does appear that they may only want to do 2 animated features. It does appear they don't have the creativity or will to continue the series. It must be hard work having to deal with fans in general. Every one of them believe they have the answers to save their precious Robotech.

Well, of course they do...with very little forward momentum over the past couple of decades, anyone who really loves Robotech must have asked themselves dozens of times, "How would I do it differently?" Some express their answers on the forums, some in fan fiction, some in fan art, and a few in fan films.

Some of the work that I've seen is of excellent quality, sometimes better than the original. But still...the problems start, I think, when fans start thinking of themselves not merely as fans of a series, but as unofficial creators, business advisors, and story editors for that series. Yes, the fans support the work...no fans, no work. But the fans do not own the franchise. The majority of fans have no idea how the write or direct a movie, or how to run an entertainment company. Enthusiastic fans are a plus; vocal fans are a mixed blessing; fans that offer unasked-for criticism and advice are usually a curse.

Has HG asked the fans what they want to see? If so, well and good. If they haven't, then we can only assume they don't want it. Each fan is only a small part of each franchise. I have bought A LOT of Macross stuff over the years; I don't think that buys me any kind of access to decision-making on the part of Macross's creators and investors. If Shoji Kawamori came up to me out of the blue and said, "Hey, I'm working on a new Macross series, and the writing staff is a little perplexed about what to do for it. Do you have any ideas," then HELL YES, I would tell him what I wanted to see. But if I approached him at a convention and said, "Hi, I've bought thousands of dollars of Macross CDs, books, DVDs, and model kits, and I think you should do X with the franchise," then I'm only stroking my own ego by making myself out to be more important than I am.

Fan works can be fun, and interesting, and sometimes better than the professional works. But they shouldn't usurp the place of the professional works.

[Funkenstein]

HG did ask what the fans wanted. The fans wanted more of the same old stuff they saw when they were kids. They wanted Rick Hunter and SDF-1.

They wanted the 80's back.

[Gubaba]

HG did ask what the fans wanted. The fans wanted more of the same old stuff they saw when they were kids. They wanted Rick Hunter and SDF-1.

They wanted the 80's back.

If they were serious about doing that, why didn't they just continue the Sentinels?