HG and Robotech Debates

[Gubaba]

Don't think anyone's posted this yet, so I thought I'd bring up that Robotech's DVD rights are apparently in limbo. HG's legal department is still working out how the collapse/reorganization of ADV impacts the agreement, to the point that Tommy and Kev aren't allowed to talk about it.

Christ, what ARE they allowed to talk about...?

[terry the lone wolf]

Tommy Yune & the Comico/CO2 guys at the Robotech panel at Zenkaikon:

http://www.co2comics.com/blog/

[azrael]

Don't think anyone's posted this yet, so I thought I'd bring up that Robotech's DVD rights are apparently in limbo. HG's legal department is still working out how the collapse/reorganization of ADV impacts the agreement, to the point that Tommy and Kev aren't allowed to talk about it.

At least, that's what Kev said at the Zenkaikon panel. I'd imagine there's a good chance that whatever problems arose with the RT DVD license would impact the Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada releases as well.

Well, HG can buy the distribution rights back from whomever ADV sold the rights to, in other words, make a buyout deal to fulfill the remainder of the contract. Or they can continue dealing with whomever ADV sold the rights to. Considering there are 4 separate entities that ADV sold their holdings to AEsir Holdings, SXION 23 distributors, Valkyrie Media Partners, Seraphim Studios (not sure about Seraphim though), yeah, it can get messy. Especially if Valkyrie holds the TV/net distribution rights while SXION holds the DVD/Blu-Ray distribution rights. Of course, there's always the possibility that whomever has it can opt to not renew the license and have the distribution rights revert back to HG. But that could take a while and get lost in paperwork.

Oh well.

[taksraven]

Well, HG can buy the distribution rights back from whomever ADV sold the rights to, in other words, make a buyout deal to fulfill the remainder of the contract. Or they can continue dealing with whomever ADV sold the rights to. Considering there are 4 separate entities that ADV sold their holdings to AEsir Holdings, SXION 23 distributors, Valkyrie Media Partners, Seraphim Studios (not sure about Seraphim though), yeah, it can get messy. Especially if Valkyrie holds the TV/net distribution rights while SXION holds the DVD/Blu-Ray distribution rights. Of course, there's always the possibility that whomever has it can opt to not renew the license and have the distribution rights revert back to HG. But that could take a while and get lost in paperwork.

Oh well.

I think that most of us here would have been happy to keep ADV and lose HG.

Taksraven

[Einherjar]

Well, HG can buy the distribution rights back from whomever ADV sold the rights to, in other words, make a buyout deal to fulfill the remainder of the contract. Or they can continue dealing with whomever ADV sold the rights to. Considering there are 4 separate entities that ADV sold their holdings to AEsir Holdings, SXION 23 distributors, Valkyrie Media Partners, Seraphim Studios (not sure about Seraphim though), yeah, it can get messy. Especially if Valkyrie holds the TV/net distribution rights while SXION holds the DVD/Blu-Ray distribution rights. Of course, there's always the possibility that whomever has it can opt to not renew the license and have the distribution rights revert back to HG. But that could take a while and get lost in paperwork.

Oh well.

Does that only affect U.S. sales? Manga Entertainment was able to bring the show online because of the rights they had to release it in Europe. They could take it over, though their distribution rights probably came from ADV as well. In fact, what could HG gain anymore if someone got the rights to sell them when it's freely available online at the moment? It's the same show they've shamelessly been pimping out for 25 years.

[Wanzerfan]

Don't think anyone's posted this yet, so I thought I'd bring up that Robotech's DVD rights are apparently in limbo. HG's legal department is still working out how the collapse/reorganization of ADV impacts the agreement, to the point that Tommy and Kev aren't allowed to talk about it.

At least, that's what Kev said at the Zenkaikon panel. I'd imagine there's a good chance that whatever problems arose with the RT DVD license would impact the Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada releases as well.

You mean rereleases of the three series, since I saw the Southern Cross box set at Best Buy, a few of the translated original Macross series DVDs over at a Games Plus, and a trailer for the Mospeada DVDs on some anime DVD, I can't remember which one, though.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Wanzerfan

[HappyPenguins]

RT.com's a Russian news site now? I've been jokingly calling it "Pravda" for a while now, but I didn't think anyone'd take it THAT far...

Here is your link, by the way: http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...&id=2027877

It's RT.com user Richardmvela asking "The Powers That Be" at Harmony Gold three money-related questions...

1.) What was the budget for Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles?

According to Tommy, less than $1 million USD, but of course Maverick and MEMO'll never own up to that...

2.) How much money that could've gone towards Shadow Chronicles did Harmony Gold lose on Robotech 3000?

I'd wager "not a lot", since Robotech 3000 sank without trace early in the production process, the animation was of horrifically poor quality, and almost no footage was completed. Naturally, he'll never get a straight answer to this one out of Kevin McKeever, if HE even knows.

3.) How many units of Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles (DVD/Blu-Ray) have been sold to date?

Anyone here who expects this question to get a straight answer, please report to detention for a compulsory course to improve your pattern recognition skills. The best Kevin McKeever will ever say in response to this question is that it's "selling well", but will never quantify it.

I'm kind of surprised that Richardmvela, who's normally a pretty rule-abiding guy, is pushing the envelope over there with help from a newbie called Whitehall l33t. They're putting Maverick_LSC and MEMO1DOMINION in a very difficult place... I wonder how quickly they'll decide that those two are "disruptive influences" and ban them. What surprises me even more is that in my absence, several people seem to be vying for the post of "troublemaker-in-chief" now that I'm no longer there to say the horrible truths that keep Kevin McKeever up 'till 2am doing damage control...

... though speaking of "damage control", I've been keeping an eye on dougbendo's podcast ever since he flash-scheduled an episode just to address all the people who were giving him crap for kissing up to MEMO and whatnot. He's been running this series on the so-called "Core block" of mecha anime, and he's got it into his head that it consists of Gundam, Macross, and Robotech. I listened in (and even participated a bit) in the last one, which covered most of the AU Gundam titles, and it wasn't bad... his format has improved from "frothy-mouthed fanatic badmouthing anyone who dares to tell him what's what". Now it's more along the lines of a vaguely organized stream of consciousness-type spiel. Instead of being offensive, it's now just kind of boring... but in terms of substance it's a vast improvement over what he used to do. He was on his best behavior today, though I think that might have something to do with the majority of the live audience badmouthing him for being over an hour late to his own show.

The next one, which is scheduled for 11/15 at 7:00pm, should prove to be a ticking time-bomb...it's the one where he's going to try and build a case for Robotech being a cornerstone of the mecha anime genre... which I'm sure has most of you rolling your eyes just thinking about it.

according to a post by memo on RTX TSC did sooooo well it's the reason WB wants to turn Robotech into their next cash cow franchise!

Of course anyone with a brain knows well enough that the only reason WB wants Robotech is because of the success of Transformers. Funny though, that's the same arguement that PTH used and when I told him the truth he got all butthurt and started attacking me. Why are these fans so stupid?

[VFTF1]

Of course anyone with a brain knows well enough that the only reason WB wants Robotech is because of the success of Transformers.

To me, that sounds like a pretty shoddy reason to want Robotech for. I mean - can't Warner just develop their own giant robot/super robot/transforming robot franchise if they're really that hell bent on it?

Makes little sense to me.

If anything, it's more like the success of Transformers gave HG some talking points in trying to get people in Holywood to give them some money for an otherwise dead property. "Because hey - this will be like the next Transformers." And now if you say "next Transformers" people will think "oh - box office hit!" and it grabs their attention.

But then they see the mess that Robotech is, and discover that it's not all that interesting or different from a zillion other sci-fi properties...

Anyways - I don't believe in the fairy tail that WB thought "wow! look at the success of Transformers - quick - get on the phone to HG!"

It was rather the other way around - HG trying to prop up their property as a valuable asset deserving the attention of a big studio because "it's like Transformers."

Pete

[Wanzerfan]

They need a f*cking 20m high crutch to prop up that bastard child of a franchise.

[azrael]

Does that only affect U.S. sales? Manga Entertainment was able to bring the show online because of the rights they had to release it in Europe. They could take it over, though their distribution rights probably came from ADV as well. In fact, what could HG gain anymore if someone got the rights to sell them when it's freely available online at the moment? It's the same show they've shamelessly been pimping out for 25 years.

Probably. It would affect their U.S. disc sales. While it may be on Hulu for everyone to watch freely, it still has ads. You can watch it ad free by buying the disc releases.

The situation for HG isn't bad but it's not good. They'll lose money if they buy back the distribution rights from whomever it was transferred to, dissolving the contract with the former-ADV. If whomever has the rights, decides to not produce anymore copies, HG would lose out on revenue, in which case, buying back the rights/dissolving the original contract would be the best for them since they won't gain revenue. There is the option that whomever has the disc rights can continue to honor the original contract. In that case, there would be no significant change to HG's revenue coming from disc sales. Whatever the result, HG does not stand to gain additional revenue from whomever has ADV's distribution rights to RT, Macross, SC, and Mospeada (there will either be no significant change or a lost).

To me, that sounds like a pretty shoddy reason to want Robotech for. I mean - can't Warner just develop their own giant robot/super robot/transforming robot franchise if they're really that hell bent on it?

No. This is Hollywood we're talking about. Just be glad they haven't tried to bringing Jem to the movie theaters.

[Robelwell202]

according to a post by memo on RTX TSC did sooooo well it's the reason WB wants to turn Robotech into their next cash cow franchise!

Of course anyone with a brain knows well enough that the only reason WB wants Robotech is because of the success of Transformers. Funny though, that's the same arguement that PTH used and when I told him the truth he got all butthurt and started attacking me. Why are these fans so stupid?

The answer is simple. It's easier to be stupid and reactionary, buying any scrap of propoganda that comes your way, than to take the effort to do research and learn something for yourself.

I mean, look at churches, for cryin' out loud!

[VFTF1]

Just be glad they haven't tried to bringing Jem to the movie theaters.

I'd watch it! I loved Jem! Jem is outrageous...Jem is contageous...J-j-j-JEM!

All they need is mecha....

Pete

[HappyPenguins]

To me, that sounds like a pretty shoddy reason to want Robotech for. I mean - can't Warner just develop their own giant robot/super robot/transforming robot franchise if they're really that hell bent on it?

Makes little sense to me.

If anything, it's more like the success of Transformers gave HG some talking points in trying to get people in Holywood to give them some money for an otherwise dead property. "Because hey - this will be like the next Transformers." And now if you say "next Transformers" people will think "oh - box office hit!" and it grabs their attention.

But then they see the mess that Robotech is, and discover that it's not all that interesting or different from a zillion other sci-fi properties...

Anyways - I don't believe in the fairy tail that WB thought "wow! look at the success of Transformers - quick - get on the phone to HG!"

It was rather the other way around - HG trying to prop up their property as a valuable asset deserving the attention of a big studio because "it's like Transformers."

Pete

Well let's not forget Hollywood is all about making live action adaptions of 80's cartoons right now and they obviously thought RT could be the next big thing.

I mean that's the only reason they wanted it, just something to compete with Transformers, excuse me "Bayformers". And you expect them to come up with their own crap? This is hollywood, they're incapable of doing that, which is why all we have are remakes and live action adaptions of cartoons.

And no one can sit there and tell me WB wanted RT because of TSC. If that damn movie is selling so well, why is it free to watch on hulu? Or better yet, why is it found in bargain bins at local retail stores?

The answer is simple. It's easier to be stupid and reactionary, buying any scrap of propoganda that comes your way, than to take the effort to do research and learn something for yourself.

I mean, look at churches, for cryin' out loud!

nice comparison!

Edited November 10, 2009 by HappyPenguins

[Jasonc]

And no one can sit there and tell me WB wanted RT because of TSC. If that damn movie is selling so well, why is it free to watch on hulu? Or better yet, why is it found in bargain bins at local retail stores?

The staff are always gonna want to put up a facade that the franchise is booming, that their product is selling so well, on and on. That's PR. I never understood why those guys on the thread on rt.com even asked Kevin. That's like asking a clown to explain all of astrophysics. BTW, did you see Kevin's answer on the thread? I guess he thought it funny to try to invalidate the questions by making stupid answers. I had figures of the sales from someone at Funimation, but that was a little over a year ago. Can't find them on this computer, but from what it seemed, sales were OK. They weren't the blistering hot item that HG made it into, but it did well enough to make some money. That was also the rep's take on the figures. Actually, I think his quote was more like, "It did better than expected, but the way anime has been going the past several months, that's not saying much." My interpretation of that was that Funimation didn't know what to expect, but it did well enough.

Fast forward a little bit in the future. Funimation then decided that they wanted to work w/ HG on part 2 by putting in a generous amount, somewhere in the range of $500,000 possibly more. There stipulations to that funding was that they have some creative part in it, that the studio be a Japanese studio, and whatever else. Those were the big 2 that I remember. HG turned it down, and I think Funimation backed out of any funding. Truth be told, I don't even know if they would be the distributor for part 2. They had the merchandising license, and you can see how far that went.

I've been speculating with a couple friends, and we've been thinking that the reason you won't see Shadow Rising anytime soon, is that WB may want to get involved with that. whether it's released before or after the LAM is anyone's guess, but right before the 2nd Batman Dark Knight movie hit the theater, there was that anime style set of shorts of Batman that came out. I wonder if WB is gonna want the same thing possibly. Remember, this was also done for the Matrix, too. My guess, is that they'll want to do it if the first movie does well only. I'm sure they don't want HG f!@#ing up their work by doing Shadow Rising. If that's the case, HG is gonna be stringing their fans along for a lonnnnnnng, long time. How would they get around that?

[Freiflug88]

Well let's not forget Hollywood is all about making live action adaptions of 80's cartoons right now and they obviously thought RT could be the next big thing.

I mean that's the only reason they wanted it, just something to compete with Transformers, excuse me "Bayformers". And you expect them to come up with their own crap? This is hollywood, they're incapable of doing that, which is why all we have are remakes and live action adaptions of cartoons.

And no one can sit there and tell me WB wanted RT because of TSC. If that damn movie is selling so well, why is it free to watch on hulu? Or better yet, why is it found in bargain bins at local retail stores?

Certainly WB didn't want RT just because of TSC, but the thing is that TSC wasn't just a cheap anime movie it was really just another opportunity to market repackaged and overpriced Mosepeda toys to diehard Robotech fans. As big as Bayformers was in the boxoffice it actually made much more money through the Bayformer's toyline so if WB is really looking for an 80's franchise to compete with Transformers they need the merchandising and the mecha. For all the legal problems HG has with Robotech we know that selling Robotech toys is certainly not one of them and that selling Robotech toys have been profitable for them ever since they bought Tatsunko's merchandising rights. If anything TSC just showed WB that the Robotech toy market was still alvie and profitable compared to other mecha franchises like Voltron, Go-Bots, and Exo-Squad that have had no recent success with merchadise.

That's my opinion anyways, that WB bought Robotech mainly because of its proven success with merchandise in a time when studios had already acquired more successful franchises like Transformers and GI Joe, and that Hollywood is freaking out over consumers downloading every movie for free.

[VFTF1]

Honestly- the notion that Robotech is going to get made into a live action movie EVER is just so so so cosmically far fetched in my mind.

I mean - I have been very VERY wrong about a great many things in my life - so naturally this might just be one of them.

But seriosly - I just can't fathom it. I mean - like...I can see it as a topic of conversation on a web forum.

But I don't believe that anybody of any importance in Warner Brothers is sitting there, wondering "how can I make Robotech into a hit live action movie?" and that there are board meetings about this or anything of the sort.

I know that a lot of stupid crap gets produced or at least gets a hearing in Holywood... but I dunno... this is just not something that I can see anybody taking seriously.

At all.

I could be totally wrong.

But there it is.

Pete

[HappyPenguins]

Certainly WB didn't want RT just because of TSC, but the thing is that TSC wasn't just a cheap anime movie it was really just another opportunity to market repackaged and overpriced Mosepeda toys to diehard Robotech fans. As big as Bayformers was in the boxoffice it actually made much more money through the Bayformer's toyline so if WB is really looking for an 80's franchise to compete with Transformers they need the merchandising and the mecha. For all the legal problems HG has with Robotech we know that selling Robotech toys is certainly not one of them and that selling Robotech toys have been profitable for them ever since they bought Tatsunko's merchandising rights. If anything TSC just showed WB that the Robotech toy market was still alvie and profitable compared to other mecha franchises like Voltron, Go-Bots, and Exo-Squad that have had no recent success with merchadise.

That's my opinion anyways, that WB bought Robotech mainly because of its proven success with merchandise in a time when studios had already acquired more successful franchises like Transformers and GI Joe, and that Hollywood is freaking out over consumers downloading every movie for free.

While you do have a point, I have to say I don't think that's the case. I mean, aren't the transformers toys marketed to kids? And the robotech toys are being sold to grown men (no offense).

Also I don't think WB knew about the legal issues when they first signed on, and at this point I don't believe the RT movie will ever get made. They haven't even finished the damn script and they've had three writers on it.

[HappyPenguins]

Honestly- the notion that Robotech is going to get made into a live action movie EVER is just so so so cosmically far fetched in my mind.

I mean - I have been very VERY wrong about a great many things in my life - so naturally this might just be one of them.

But seriosly - I just can't fathom it. I mean - like...I can see it as a topic of conversation on a web forum.

But I don't believe that anybody of any importance in Warner Brothers is sitting there, wondering "how can I make Robotech into a hit live action movie?" and that there are board meetings about this or anything of the sort.

I know that a lot of stupid crap gets produced or at least gets a hearing in Holywood... but I dunno... this is just not something that I can see anybody taking seriously.

At all.

I could be totally wrong.

But there it is.

Pete

Yeah, I heard Hollywood is making a "Barbie" movie, can't get any stupider than that

oh wait, I once heard rumors about a movie based on the sims games....

wow, just when I think they can't surprise me anymore..

[taksraven]

Of course anyone with a brain knows well enough that the only reason WB wants Robotech is because of the success of Transformers. Funny though, that's the same arguement that PTH used and when I told him the truth he got all butthurt and started attacking me. Why are these fans so stupid?

Because they are Robotech fans??

Taksraven

[taksraven]

To me, that sounds like a pretty shoddy reason to want Robotech for. I mean - can't Warner just develop their own giant robot/super robot/transforming robot franchise if they're really that hell bent on it?

Makes little sense to me.

If anything, it's more like the success of Transformers gave HG some talking points in trying to get people in Holywood to give them some money for an otherwise dead property. "Because hey - this will be like the next Transformers." And now if you say "next Transformers" people will think "oh - box office hit!" and it grabs their attention.

But then they see the mess that Robotech is, and discover that it's not all that interesting or different from a zillion other sci-fi properties...

Anyways - I don't believe in the fairy tail that WB thought "wow! look at the success of Transformers - quick - get on the phone to HG!"

It was rather the other way around - HG trying to prop up their property as a valuable asset deserving the attention of a big studio because "it's like Transformers."

Pete

I suspect that by adapting something that already exists that they will avoid possible legal action due to accusations of plagiarism. Thats what I suspect anyway.

Taksraven

[VFTF1]

I would rather see Photon made into a movie than RT.

pete

[Seto Kaiba]

The answer is simple. It's easier to be stupid and reactionary, buying any scrap of propoganda that comes your way, than to take the effort to do research and learn something for yourself.

Bingo! Give the man a prize!

The two main reasons Robotech even still has a fanbase are that the long-time fans don't want to admit they've been wasting their time for 18+ years, and the lot of them are just too damn apathetic to look into other, far better shows or to check the validity of the increasingly obvious bullshit claims Harmony Gold and its representatives make.

I mean, look at churches, for cryin' out loud!

Damn, you really ARE turning into me.

Well let's not forget Hollywood is all about making live action adaptions of 80's cartoons right now and they obviously thought RT could be the next big thing.

It's not even that, actually... by Harmony Gold's own admission Warner just wanted something, anything, that could compete with Paramount's Transformers movie(s).

And no one can sit there and tell me WB wanted RT because of TSC. If that damn movie is selling so well, why is it free to watch on hulu? Or better yet, why is it found in bargain bins at local retail stores?

It IS a pretty transparent lie, isn't it? Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles didn't even get decent coverage in what little America gets in the way of anime news media, and all indications are that it's sold bugger-all, with people lining up none deep in stores across the US, and many stores (particularly in the midwest) consigning Shadow Chronicles DVDs to the "bargain bin" and selling them at a loss just to get them the hell out of inventory... and now, in a desperate attempt to get attention, the movie's free on Hulu. Clearly they realized they weren't going to be able to milk any more money out of DVD sales, and decided that was their best course of action.

Kevin McKeever certainly likes to ramble about how successful Shadow Chronicles was, but the question that makes the whole thing fall apart is "exactly what is his definition of 'successful?'". Since RTSC was made on a shoestring budget, is he considering it a success for earning back the initial investment? If so, that's setting the bar pretty damn low. Is he calling it a success because it didn't have completely empty theaters when it did its VERY limited, VERY short theatrical run? That's setting the bar pretty low too, because by all accounts it was the same people in each region watching the movie over and over again. The whole idea that Shadow Chronicles was a success is entirely contingent on the exact definition of success a person chooses to apply... and with McKeever not talking, we can only assume that he's calling it a success because the bar was set ALARMINGLY low.

[HappyPenguins]

I would rather see Photon made into a movie than RT.

pete

I'd rather see WB work on Halo rather than RT

Halo would have a better chance of being a success than Robotech

would, as its fan base is larger and its story is original

[BeyondTheGrave]

Bingo! Give the man a prize!

The two main reasons Robotech even still has a fanbase are that the long-time fans don't want to admit they've been wasting their time for 18+ years, and the lot of them are just too damn apathetic to look into other, far better shows or to check the validity of the increasingly obvious bullshit claims Harmony Gold and its representatives make.

I think its more so they're in a comfort zone they don't want to leave. An they've allowed nostalgia to control they're taste in entertainment.

It's not even that, actually... by Harmony Gold's own admission Warner just wanted something, anything, that could compete with Paramount's Transformers movie(s).

It IS a pretty transparent lie, isn't it? Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles didn't even get decent coverage in what little America gets in the way of anime news media, and all indications are that it's sold bugger-all, with people lining up none deep in stores across the US, and many stores (particularly in the midwest) consigning Shadow Chronicles DVDs to the "bargain bin" and selling them at a loss just to get them the hell out of inventory... and now, in a desperate attempt to get attention, the movie's free on Hulu. Clearly they realized they weren't going to be able to milk any more money out of DVD sales, and decided that was their best course of action.

Kevin McKeever certainly likes to ramble about how successful Shadow Chronicles was, but the question that makes the whole thing fall apart is "exactly what is his definition of 'successful?'". Since RTSC was made on a shoestring budget, is he considering it a success for earning back the initial investment? If so, that's setting the bar pretty damn low. Is he calling it a success because it didn't have completely empty theaters when it did its VERY limited, VERY short theatrical run? That's setting the bar pretty low too, because by all accounts it was the same people in each region watching the movie over and over again. The whole idea that Shadow Chronicles was a success is entirely contingent on the exact definition of success a person chooses to apply... and with McKeever not talking, we can only assume that he's calling it a success because the bar was set ALARMINGLY low.

success=obsolete?

or

success=favorable or desired outcome; also : the attainment of wealth, favor, or eminence*

maybe they're whole goal was to cast another lure out and pull in more fans for another 20 something years on the hope of another series.

RT can't compete with TF nowadays they don't have any type of designs or a story thats insane but makes sense.

They just have Protoculture.... and I'm still confused about what it is.

So Memo if your reading this please explain what Protoculture is.

I'd rather see WB work on Halo rather than RT

Halo would have a better chance of being a success than Robotech

would, as its fan base is larger and its story is original

A lot of people would. But I hear Gears of War is getting a movie. why? I don't know.

*I think they have some sort of lord like Palpatine telling them what to do.

[Freiflug88]

While you do have a point, I have to say I don't think that's the case. I mean, aren't the transformers toys marketed to kids? And the robotech toys are being sold to grown men (no offense).

Also I don't think WB knew about the legal issues when they first signed on, and at this point I don't believe the RT movie will ever get made. They haven't even finished the damn script and they've had three writers on it.

Your point is well taken that Transformers has always been marketed to kids with all their countles reinvented toylines unlike HG who has relied exclusively on grown up fans who saw the show as kids and became hooked for life. I think its likely the WB execs sees Robotech as Transformers less popular cousin. WB knowns that Batman is the most well known superhero in the world simply because he has had the most media interpretions shown to generations of kids, so it should be a given for them why Transformers became popular while Robotech remains a "cult classic" despite appearing as near identical franchises to most people. Then again many toy collectors who grew up from the 80s are Transformers and Macross/Robotech fans, just look at the demand for G1 Jet Fires. Again I don't know what exactly is going through WB's mind, but to me Robotech seems like an obvious choice to compete with Paramount's Bayformers in the movie theaters and on toystore shelves.

I also want to argue that WB was proabably aware of the legal situation when they first signed on. I myself forget until now that it was actually Maquire Entertainment that bought the Robotech movie rights from Harmony Gold. Once Maquire bought the rights all the movie rights they should the lack of derivative rights to the orginial designs should have been in plain sight for WB to see. Such limitations aren't unreasonable for movie studios though. Paramount was well aware that all the previous designs for Transformers from Japanese designers were off limits when they bought the rights to Transformers from Hasbro. So Michael Bay instead paid Industrial Light and Magic millions of dollars to design Original Transformers loosely inspired by G1 that could fit into GM sponsored vehicles. If WB is serious about turning Robotech into a blockbuster movie they shouldn't be bothered by not having access to the original design when they have the resources to hire creative talent and were probably planing to modernizing Robotech like Batman or Iron Man anyways.

As far as the scripts themselves go running through 3 writers at this point tells me that WB could be very serious with this project. Consider for instance that with the Dragonball adaption Fox actually sat on the Dragonball rights for 2 whole years before even hiring Ben Ramsey to write a DragonBall Z (Yes a DBZ script), only to have the newly assigned director James Wong spend a year rewriting the DBZ into a DragonBall Script cause he was a DB fan. In any case Dragonball Evoultion had one crappy wrtier assigned to it for 3 years, but Iron Man for instance actually had FIVE assigned scriptwriters spend 3 years working on the script before Paramount decided to film the movie with improvised dialogue. The script for WB's own Batman Begins was six years in the making before any production and filming was started in 2003 with the sequel TDK already in mind as Bale was signed on for only two Batman movies. Naturally if rumors are true that WB is considering a RLAM trilogy then its no surprise that it will take a very long time to and multple revisions before they reach a final script with or without derivative rights to the original source material.

[Einherjar]

When Hollywood is at the point where people think it's a good idea to make a Pong and Asteroids movie, they're throwing all the rules out the window. ANYTHING can become a movie now, and Robotech will be thriving on that until the film actually comes out, if ever.

Until that time comes, will HG be able to last long enough to see a movie that determines the future of the franchise? Besides a lot of undisclosed business transactions, Robotech is all they have. And they REALLY have no new plans for it at the moment except reissues. It doesn't even look like they have anything special planned for the 25th anniversary except extra perks in the Robotech Convention Tour, which they do every year anyway.

Edited November 11, 2009 by Einherjar

[BeyondTheGrave]

There's a RT Convention tour?

Heck they could save loads of money just canceling that. And use said funding to do something for the 25th.

But from how it sounds Count Dooku Mckeever wouldn't like that. They have to reassure the masses that its on the way for the 1,905,567,001 time.

Edited November 11, 2009 by BeyondTheGrave

[Einherjar]

There's a RT Convention tour?

Heck they could save loads of money just canceling that. And use said funding to do something for the 25th.

But from how it sounds Count Dooku Mckeever wouldn't like that. They have to reassure the masses that its on the way for the 1,905,567,001 time.

Yeah, it's funny knowing they're now entering year 3-4 of waiting for a sequel, Shadow Rising or other.

[Freiflug88]

Well I do think that if HG were to go bankrupt tomorrow Tobey would still have the exclusive movie rights to Robotech that he bought from HG so WB could probably be able to reimagine RLAM HG or not. Remember how Fox announced that they would recreate a new Fantastic Four movie before their their Fantastic Four movie rights could expire right after Disney bought Marvel? HG going out of business could just make the RLAM happen sooner.

As for Harmony Gold's immediate survival I bet they depend on how those undisclosed deals turn out. If they put as much effort as their real estates deals as they did the Robotech sequels then their days are numbered .

[Seto Kaiba]

Heck they could save loads of money just canceling that. And use said funding to do something for the 25th.

No kidding... most of the convention-goers I know avoid the Harmony Gold booths and panel discussions like they're handing out free samples of the swine flu. The few who are either bored or optimistic enough to attend usually end up sending me the exact same complaint every time... the attendees are usually the same small group of die-hards with essentially just a handful of curious passers-by mixed in.

If the senior management at Harmony Gold could be persuaded to get a goddamn clue and wanted to eliminate wasteful spending, you bet the convention tour'd be at the top of a very long list of wasteful business practices.

But from how it sounds Count Dooku Mckeever wouldn't like that. They have to reassure the masses that its on the way for the 1,905,567,001 time.

Well, can you honestly blame him? After all, McKeever's supposed to be their marketing director, but he's reputation's so lousy that only the most delusional, lifeless, die-hard Robotech fanboys take him seriously. On Robotech.com he's got people constantly questioning the veracity of his statements and demanding honest answers to questions that'll make Harmony Gold look bad. The convention panels are about the only place he can poo out the company rhetoric and expect that SOMEONE will actually be stupid enough to believe it, or at the very least that people will be polite enough not to call him out or shout "bullshit" while he's talking.

The more I read of McKeever's posts, the more I get the distinct impression that he's a man who quietly loathes his job because he spends most of his time doing damage control and being made fun of for only being able to tell people that he's not allowed to tell them anything. I've also started to suspect that he's finally beginning to appreciate just what a Sisyphean endeavor trying to improve Robotech's crappy reputation really is.

Yeah, it's funny knowing they're now entering year 3-4 of waiting for a sequel, Shadow Rising or other.

Oh yes... threads requesting information about when or if Shadow Rising is coming out have, as I understand it, become something of a recurring problem over in the "Robotech Production" forum. It looks like after I got banned, Harmony Gold lowered the bar for what constitutes an "inconveniently sharp individual" considerably, and they're now looking askance at people who're asking uncomfortable questions about just how "successful" Shadow Chronicles was, demanding information about why Shadow Rising is on hiatus, and asking when or if it'll be released.

Shadow Rising information request threads seem to have become a perennial favorite for the more subdued critics over there... since they offer them a chance to thumb their noses at Harmony Gold indirectly.

[Gubaba]

Y'know, while this site was down, I went and checked out the "How much did Shadow Chronicles sell?" thread at RT.com, and out own beloved Capt. Christopher Donovan, the Rosa Parks of Robotech fans, had a very interesting suggestion: check Amazon and see what they had for SC's sales.

So I checked...and thiese are the sales rankings (for "movies and TV") that I found.

Robotech Protoculture Collection: #10,297

Macross II - The "Movie": #22,229

Shadow Chronicles (2 Disc set): #27,648

Macross Plus - Movie Edition: #29,627

Shadow Chronicles (Blu-Ray): #29,991

Macross Plus (OVA): #34,578

SDF Macross Vol. 1 (ADV): #43,842

Robotech Remastered Vol. 1: #44,250

Robotech Macross Saga Set: #49,539

Shadow Chronicles (Regular): #57,574 (and 73 new and used from $1.15!)

So yes...Shadow Chronicles is certainly holding its own against a Macross series 10 years its senior...not doing *quite* as well as (of all things) Macross II, however.

Really, only the Protoculture Edition seems in any ways healthy...and number ten thousand and something still ain't so good...

[Jasonc]

Y'know, while this site was down, I went and checked out the "How much did Shadow Chronicles sell?" thread at RT.com, and out own beloved Capt. Christopher Donovan, the Rosa Parks of Robotech fans, had a very interesting suggestion: check Amazon and see what they had for SC's sales.

So I checked...and thiese are the sales rankings (for "movies and TV") that I found.

Robotech Protoculture Collection: #10,297

Macross II - The "Movie": #22,229

Shadow Chronicles (2 Disc set): #27,648

Macross Plus - Movie Edition: #29,627

Shadow Chronicles (Blu-Ray): #29,991

Macross Plus (OVA): #34,578

SDF Macross Vol. 1 (ADV): #43,842

Robotech Remastered Vol. 1: #44,250

Robotech Macross Saga Set: #49,539

Shadow Chronicles (Regular): #57,574 (and 73 new and used from $1.15!)

So yes...Shadow Chronicles is certainly holding its own against a Macross series 10 years its senior...not doing *quite* as well as (of all things) Macross II, however.

Really, only the Protoculture Edition seems in any ways healthy...and number ten thousand and something still ain't so good...

But wait, I thought it was one of the best anime features of all time??? Didn't Kevin and a bunch of critics say that? Certainly if they say it, it must be true. When I look at that list, it appears that Robotech is really fighting amongst itself. When that happens, it looks like the market has a flood of the same stuff. As for the first 85 episodes of Robotech, I can understand that selling decently. I mean, it is the entire series in one set. I can understand that doing relatively well on that short list. Seeing a "new" release only in the #27,648 range at best is maybe moderate at best.

[Gubaba]

But wait, I thought it was one of the best anime features of all time??? Didn't Kevin and a bunch of critics say that? Certainly if they say it, it must be true. When I look at that list, it appears that Robotech is really fighting amongst itself. When that happens, it looks like the market has a flood of the same stuff. As for the first 85 episodes of Robotech, I can understand that selling decently. I mean, it is the entire series in one set. I can understand that doing relatively well on that short list. Seeing a "new" release only in the #27,648 range at best is maybe moderate at best.

And Macross II and Plus have been on DVD since...what, 2000? 2001? And they're crappy DVDs. And yet, they manage to do about as well or a little better than SC. Funny, that.

Something tells me that if Frontier (or hell, even Zero) were released over here, they'd be doing the best.

[Robelwell202]

And Macross II and Plus have been on DVD since...what, 2000? 2001? And they're crappy DVDs. And yet, they manage to do about as well or a little better than SC. Funny, that.

Something tells me that if Frontier (or hell, even Zero) were released over here, they'd be doing the best.

That's a no-brainer... If one were to, say, put TSC on a screen nexxt to a presentation of Frontier, and conducted 'The Pepsi Challenge', I think there would be an overwhelming response to Frontier, resulting in an eventual surge in Macross appreciation, and sounding the death nell for RT.

Of course, our dear friend Kevvie would have some strange spin on the data. Something about "Well, we believe that the test was tainted. If the test were done in a truly scientific matter, they'd've presented another animated program that sucked just as badly as RT:TSC."

Now, we have the obvious question: "What sucked as badly as TSC?"

That's a question I simply cannot answer... Anyone else wanna try?

[Jasonc]

Yeah, that's a very fair assessment. However, if that were to ever happen, I wonder how much western influence would affect Macross future installments? Right now, while we do complain about blockades and whatnot, how different, if at all, do you think Macross would've been if it was strongly linked to the west? I think the double edged sword of having Macross exclusive for Japan, is that it isn't influenced by the west, and keeps it where we like it. The bad side, obviously, is that DVDs are coded differently (work around), no subs (is usually worked around and can be done by the R.2 distributor), and the prices of merchandise and the media is more expensive (yeah, we have to save a bit more).