Ichiro Itano is a mean man.

[Gubaba]

LOL, Because many of my female friends love it... (just for the characters)

That's why I call it the Beverly Hills 90210/Gossip Girl/Twilight of mecha anime.

Gundam 00 Season 1 first trailer aired on June 2, 2007. The show ran from October 6, 2007 to March 29, 2008.

Macross Frontier Deculture Edition was aired on December 23, 2007. The actual series ran from April 3, 2008 to September 25, 2008.

Nuff' said...

So it only took the Frontier staff six months to slap together the show? Fast work, considering most TV anime is in development for a few years before they debut.

[Kronnang Dunn]

So it only took the Frontier staff six months to slap together the show? Fast work, considering most TV anime is in development for a few years before they debut.

Actually information about the characters and units of 00 was revealed in summer 2008. Mikhail and his sniper variant first appeared in April 2009. That's nearly 10 months...

Edited November 19, 2009 by Kronnang Dunn

[Gubaba]

Actually information about the characters and units of 00 was revealed in summer 2008. Mikhail and his sniper variant first appeared in April 2009. That's nearly 10 months...

I dunno...I don't buy it. Michael was a pretty important character, and I imagine they would've had everything in place for him by Summer 2008...especially since the show was MEANT to debut in Fall 2007.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Gubaba

[Save]

Macross Frontier Deculture Edition was aired on December 23, 2007. The actual series ran from April 3, 2008 to September 25, 2008.

Nuff' said...

My friend had a job interview in Dec. 2006 for a position at Satellite. During that interview they told him they were already in early production of a new Macross series for the anniversary. Very hush hush, even though he told me and in Feb. of 2007 I was in LA and I told a few MW members at a Frank & Sons meet up that there was a new series being made but you didn't hear it from me kind of thing. So that all per-dates Gundam 00 Season 1 first trailer aired on June 2, 2007.

So what you got now.

[ff95gj]

I certainly smell sour grapes here.

If we are to argue physics and logics in Japanese animes, we should as well quit TVs and movies and go jogging now.

To me, Macross F is entertaining. Characters are likeable, mechs are cool, songs are good.

But I am not going to learn any sniper tricks from it or satisfy my sexual fantasies with it.

[ff95gj]

The VF sniper rifle WAS kind of silly, though I'd argue it was a sympton of the real problem.

All our relevant characters had their own custom machines. Not just paintjobs, full unique equipment loadouts. On special advance-issue prototypes, even!

That's a slap in the face to the original series, which took great pains to avoid having a hero mech. Everyone had the same gear and the same plane. Sure Hikaru's 1J had a funny-looking head, but it wasn't any better or worse than Focker's 1S or everyone else's 1A. It went the same speed, fired the same gun, carried the same missiles... it was just another bird in the sky.

I was too young to read anything at all back then, but the latest materials describe that the S, J, A have different performance.

[Killer Robot]

The VF sniper rifle WAS kind of silly, though I'd argue it was a sympton of the real problem.

All our relevant characters had their own custom machines. Not just paintjobs, full unique equipment loadouts. On special advance-issue prototypes, even!

That's a slap in the face to the original series, which took great pains to avoid having a hero mech. Everyone had the same gear and the same plane. Sure Hikaru's 1J had a funny-looking head, but it wasn't any better or worse than Focker's 1S or everyone else's 1A. It went the same speed, fired the same gun, carried the same missiles... it was just another bird in the sky.

On the contrary, I found Frontier to be a welcome swing back the other direction. After Plus and 7 being entirely about the hero mechs in the form of prototypes and majorly altered variants with unique technology and loadouts, or valks technically in production but much better than all the others and only with three per fleet, the VF-25 being something that had some cannon fodder squadrons was a nice return to the old ways. Even the variants: the ELINT version was a nice callback, the sniper really a small alteration in weapons loadout, and both Michael and Luca seemed to have variants that were not special so much as specialized, and not better so much as choices for the couple of kids in the unit as of the beginning who were given specialties that would keep them a bit out of the direct line of fire. I grant, I still would have liked to see the heroes in the same mechs as everyone else, but even as it stands it was a big step back toward old Macross and I liked it.

[Mellow Yellow]

While I liked the idea of sniper mecha and the way it was depicted in Frontier, I must add that it was obviously taken from Gundam 00.... a very very overhyped anime (I've seen it and re-seen and I still do not like it!!!).

I find this claim pretty ridiculous. A lot of mecha are humanoid, so it's only natural that their hand-held armament be of human origin in design. These include knives, swords, pistols, smg's, rifles, sniper rifles, shields, etc. This is like me saying Macross Plus totally rips off Mobile Suit Gundam because they gave the VF-11, YF-19, and YF-21 shields, or anyone who wields an oversized sword totally stole the design from Cloud in Final Fantasy VII (who obviously isn't the first dude to wield a big ass sword)

While not plentiful, I can only think of two shows before Gundam 00 where mecha used sniper rifles; Evangelion with the positron rifle and Gundam 08th MS team's GM sniper.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Mellow Yellow

[sketchley]

While not plentiful, I can only think of two shows before Gundam 00 where mecha used sniper rifles; Evangelion with the positron rifle and Gundam 08th MS team's GM sniper.

Erm... Gundam 0080 anyone?

Anyhow, if we're talking about anime "heroes" with sniper rifles - why hasn't Golgo 13 been mentioned? He predates any of the other anime mentioned by a long shot (heh, pun not intended).

So yeah, the problem isn't that there's a mecha using a sniper rifle and that idea has been taken from someone else, it's that a mecha using a sniper rifle is being using in an unfactual way. But as Itano was saying it in a non-mean spiritied (which was mistranslated as mean spiritied) about the state of anime in general, it's all moot. Especially until we get a translation of the entire article.

[D.D. Ivanov]

So now we can go on to argue about something else.

Why does a transforming ship that weighs over 36 and a half billion pounds need hands?

Edited November 19, 2009 by D.D. Ivanov

[Kronnang Dunn]

My friend had a job interview in Dec. 2006 for a position at Satellite. During that interview they told him they were already in early production of a new Macross series for the anniversary. Very hush hush, even though he told me and in Feb. of 2007 I was in LA and I told a few MW members at a Frank & Sons meet up that there was a new series being made but you didn't hear it from me kind of thing. So that all per-dates Gundam 00 Season 1 first trailer aired on June 2, 2007.

So what you got now.

Weren't both shows sponsored by some of the same companies? I wouldn't be surprised if there was some influence there. Also of note is the fact that Frontier started just as the first season of 00 ended.

Edited November 20, 2009 by Kronnang Dunn

[Gubaba]

Weren't both shows sponsored by some of the same companies? I wouldn't be surprised if there was some influence there. Also of note is the fact that Frontier started just as the first season of 00 ended.

You DO realize how long it takes to work out everything involved for a show...story, characters, mecha...

It's not like they could watch 00, and say, "Hey, let's get a sniper in our show, too! And make him a main character! Quick Risa, make the character! Hiroyuki, write him into the story. And Shoji, get on designing that Valkyrie. We've got to overhaul everything! You've got five months."

Now, possibly, there was some back and forth during the planning, as you suggest...but after 00 started...no. It would be too late at that point.

[VFTF1]

You know, there's also one Gundam in OO that transforms into a jet-like craft.

Now is it just a coincidence that suddenly Macross Frontier has FOUR main character mecha that turn into jet-like craft?

Think about it.

Pete

[JB0]

I was too young to read anything at all back then, but the latest materials describe that the S, J, A have different performance.

I was too young, too.

I was going more by how the show presented it than the official specs.

The hero's plane was more or less the same as everyone else's plane... except that brown paint explodes.

[VFTF1]

he VF sniper rifle WAS kind of silly, though I'd argue it was a sympton of the real problem.

All our relevant characters had their own custom machines. Not just paintjobs, full unique equipment loadouts. On special advance-issue prototypes, even!

That's a slap in the face to the original series, which took great pains to avoid having a hero mech. Everyone had the same gear and the same plane. Sure Hikaru's 1J had a funny-looking head, but it wasn't any better or worse than Focker's 1S or everyone else's 1A. It went the same speed, fired the same gun, carried the same missiles... it was just another bird in the sky.

On the contrary, I found Frontier to be a welcome swing back the other direction. After Plus and 7 being entirely about the hero mechs in the form of prototypes and majorly altered variants with unique technology and loadouts, or valks technically in production but much better than all the others and only with three per fleet, the VF-25 being something that had some cannon fodder squadrons was a nice return to the old ways. Even the variants: the ELINT version was a nice callback, the sniper really a small alteration in weapons loadout, and both Michael and Luca seemed to have variants that were not special so much as specialized, and not better so much as choices for the couple of kids in the unit as of the beginning who were given specialties that would keep them a bit out of the direct line of fire. I grant, I still would have liked to see the heroes in the same mechs as everyone else, but even as it stands it was a big step back toward old Macross and I liked it.

Yeah, I kind of agree with Killerrobot here. The specializations on the VF-25s were not extreme.

Actually - thank you lucky stars they did what they did with Frontier.

I mean - they effectively rolled up what could have been 12 color variants into FOUR valkyrie.

I don't know about you, but my wallet is happy that it has gotten itself the SMS squadron and doesn't need to prepare to shell out for the VF-25A the VF-25B the VF-25C, the VF-25D, the VT-25, the VE-25, the ...you get the picture.

I mean it also makes sense for a squadron to be composed of dudes with specialized jets. Ozma has armor for providing heavy artilery. Alto has super parts for agility and speed. Michael has distance pin point sniping and Luca has surveillance equipment.

It seems perfect to me.

Granted, it's more "elite squad" than the regular grunts of the SDFM TV series - true. But if you think about it, Vermillion team also had designated rolls:

HIKARU ICHIJO

Specialties:

Shouting at superiors while hitting on them

Fantasizing about swimsuit Minmey while on missions

Crashing consecutive airplanes into buildings

KAKIZAKE

Specialties:

Responsible for field testing valkyrie armor (yes, seriously. He would get shot on purpose - it was his secret mission from Global. seriously)

MAX:

Making sure the above two didn't die

Winning the war single handledly

See.

There.

Specialties.

Pete

[Save]

Weren't both shows sponsored by some of the same companies? I wouldn't be surprised if there was some influence there. Also of note is the fact that Frontier started just as the first season of 00 ended.

The only company that had anything to do with both as far as financial support is Bandai. Bandai supports Gundam productions since it is their bread winning anime. Macross F pre-production had nothing to do with Bandai at the time it was only being financed by BW and Statlite with only Hasagawa and Yamato toys ready to give it financial backing since they have always supported Mac. BW had shopped Frontier around to different companies and pretty much was turned down by all possible backers until the Deculture Edition preview episode was ready to be shopped around. Then Bandai saw it and not only signed on but made the deal to be exclusive to them putting Hasagawa and Yamamto on the outs for Mac F merchandise since they would be funding either half or more of the production. So yes they did sponsor the show but had no input "influence" on the direction of the story or mechanical elements, since it was already laid out before then got on board. You are correct Frontier aired after the first season of 00 ended, and bears poo in the woods but neither of these facts have any bearing on your point.

[mike_s_6]

LOL, Because many of my female friends love it... (just for the characters)

That's why I call it the Beverly Hills 90210/Gossip Girl/Twilight of mecha anime.

...I don't know about you, but I know where you could see a handful of screaming, angry, raging fangirls who care only for Frontier's characters and probably know and care very little about mech specifications. Also, they're almost always talking about which character should end up with which character... and someone told me that's how the fans of Twilight act

Also, I guess I'm lucky, my girl friends absolutely think Twilight is dumb.

Edited November 20, 2009 by mike_s_6

[Gubaba]

...I don't know about you, but I know where you could see a handful of screaming, angry, raging fangirls who care only for Frontier's characters and probably know and care very little about mech specifications. Also, they're almost always talking about which character should end up with which character... and someone told me that's how the fans of Twilight act

I know where you can see that, too...and I don't necessarily think it a bad thing. The show's got wide appeal...what's wrong with that? Some like it for the mecha, some like it for the characters, some like it for the music, and it's a big hit.

By the way, I just got issue 3 of Macross Ace...and they gave Itano a regular column in the magazine; gosh, he hates it so much that he's writing for it now...

Edited November 20, 2009 by Gubaba

[Marzan]

By the way, I just got issue 3 of Macross Ace...and they gave Itano a regular column in the magazine; gosh, he hates it so much that he's writing for it now...

How unbelievably consistent of him!!

[mike_s_6]

I know where you can see that, too...and I don't necessarily think it a bad thing. The show's got wide appeal...what's wrong with that? Some like it for the mecha, some like it for the characters, some like it for the music, and it's a big hit.

Not saying it was a bad thing, hey I like Macross more for the characters than mecha! In fact, I would venture to say girls more often love characters over mecha. But comparing a show to upright ditzy girl-oriented shows, just because some girls love the characters, I feel is not right. Frankly, it was the mention of "Twilight" that made me flare up

By the way, I just got issue 3 of Macross Ace...and they gave Itano a regular column in the magazine; gosh, he hates it so much that he's writing for it now...

Do share what he's saying if you have time

Edited November 21, 2009 by mike_s_6

[Gubaba]

Not saying it was a bad thing, hey I like Macross more for the characters than mecha! In fact, I would venture to say girls more often love characters over mecha. But comparing a show to upright ditzy girl-oriented shows, just because some girls love the characters, I feel is not right. Frankly, it was the mention of "Twilight" that made me flare up

Sorry, I should've made myself clearer...I was agreeing with you.

Do share what he's saying if you have time

I wish I could...I find it really hard to translate these kind of interviews. It was sheer bloody-mindedness that got me through the Yoshino interview way back when.

But I'll see if I can hammer out a summary or something. Not soon, though.

[Vifam7]

Sorry, I should've made myself clearer...I was agreeing with you.

I wish I could...I find it really hard to translate these kind of interviews. It was sheer bloody-mindedness that got me through the Yoshino interview way back when.

But I'll see if I can hammer out a summary or something. Not soon, though.

Can you post a scan of the section? I might be able to help out on writing up a summary.

Edited November 21, 2009 by Vifam7

[Gubaba]

Can you post a scan of the section? I might be able to help out on writing up a summary.

I'm in a coffee shop right now, and I'll probably go out with friends later. So maybe late tonight (depending on how drunk I am) or tomorrow morning (depending on how hung-over I am).

EDIT: I can, however, post the entire interview from last issue, since I have the scans with me.

Give a moment to resize them...

FURTHER EDIT: On second check, I guess I don't have them with me...sorry.

Edited November 21, 2009 by Gubaba

[Kronnang Dunn]

You know, there's also one Gundam in OO that transforms into a jet-like craft.

Now is it just a coincidence that suddenly Macross Frontier has FOUR main character mecha that turn into jet-like craft?

Think about it.

Pete

Indeed. I didn't even think about that...

[D.D. Ivanov]

You know, there's also one Gundam in OO that transforms into a jet-like craft.

Now is it just a coincidence that suddenly Macross Frontier has FOUR main character mecha that turn into jet-like craft?

Think about it.

Pete

Oh my god.

The Super Dimension Fortress Macross ripped off Mobile Suit Gundam 00 twenty five years and three days before it even came out!

...I blame fold faults.

[Gubaba]

From Macross Ace #002. This is the one that was quoted in the first post.

[JB0]

Granted, it's more "elite squad" than the regular grunts of the SDFM TV series - true. But if you think about it, Vermillion team also had designated rolls:

HIKARU ICHIJO

Specialties:

Shouting at superiors while hitting on them

Fantasizing about swimsuit Minmey while on missions

Crashing consecutive airplanes into buildings

KAKIZAKE

Specialties:

Responsible for field testing valkyrie armor (yes, seriously. He would get shot on purpose - it was his secret mission from Global. seriously)

MAX:

Making sure the above two didn't die

Winning the war single handledly

See.

There.

Specialties.

Pete

Don't forget

ROY FOCKER:

Keeping the breweries aboard the Macross profitable.

Keeping the hair gel manufacturers aboard the Macross profitable.

Keeping them crazies over in Vermillion from doing anything TOO stupid.