Macross II

[Tolarin]

Oh man... Macross II's dub is so bad that it's hilarious... and thus, we always watch it dubbed!

"I'M GONNA RIP HIS HEAD OFF!"

Or that commander's, "The ship are INDEED Zentraedi" as if he's a robot.

Plus, the VF-2SS Squires are essnetially Valkyrie Options! (As in Options from Gradius' Vic Viper) How can you NOT love those?!

(And the Zentraedi-stylized Macross Cannons! A nice touch!)

I still love Macross II... it was one of my first anime, back before I even completely understood the difference between it and Robotech... it was flashy, cool, and had slick giant robots. Sure, it's no Macross Plus... but it's still a whole lot of fun in my book!

[valhary]

bad history the best valkyrie

[Keith]

Ok, I'll fold, where is Big West's HD remaster of Macross II on Blu-Ray so I can hopefully pay much less than I did for import Zero? Coem on BW/BV, pick up the ball and start putting out more Blu-Rays!

Edited November 27, 2009 by Keith

[Zinjo]

Uh and Macross Plus The Movie was written before the OAV and the entire time it was intended to be done as the movie. The OVA was expanded from the movie. That is not a very good example. Whatever, Manga barely touched it. Give me a break.

True, Mac Plus was originally a movie about competing test pilots that was adapted into a Macross story so Kawamori could get funding for the project.

[anime52k8]

True, Mac Plus was originally a movie about competing test pilots that was adapted into a Macross story so Kawamori could get funding for the project.

Ok, I'm not sure what that has to do with the conversation though?

[MilSpex]

I think some people are misunderstanding my use of the word hack. I mean hack as in amateur, not as in hacking up a work so it is different from the original. but whatever....

The Macross II continuity sits better with me.

While Macross II isn`t perfect, the Nue continuity just has too much goofy stuff that doesn`t sync well with the original series imho.

The poster who had the two continuity theories places FB 2012 in with the Nue continuity but theres no reason it can`t be in the MII continuity. Perhaps in the MII continuity mankinds` attempts to colonise space werent so successful and emigration/exploration fleets were destroyed by the Zentraudi or were MIA like the Megaroad in Nue continuity?

Macross II strong points include the mecha, character designs and the music. The story wasn`t great but I too am looking forward to Gubaba`s far future translations of the novels.

My dream come true would be if Big West decided to dump studio Nue and Kawamori and his desire for the fate of the original trio to remain a mystery and independently developed a full length series chronicling the voyage of the Megaroad into deep space and its encounters with the Protoculture and the Supervision Army, all set in MII continuity. I`d like to see a lot of staff from Legend of the Galactic Heroes involved to keep it mostly serious and avoid any comedy valkyries or moe.

[hulagu]

Loved the Mikimoto character design on Ishtar and the Macross Cannon.

Ugh, am I the only one that hates the Macross Cannon design? It's like poster boy for the lazyass rehashed mecha design and recycled storytelling on that show.

Edited December 4, 2009 by hulagu

[Shaorin]

MACROSS II was the very first of the MACROSS series

i had ever seen, outside of ROBOTECH.

it was back around christmas of 1995/96,

and it left a powerful impression upon me.

anyway, i know that i'm likely to be stoned to death,

but i've always thought MACROSS II to be quite good, actually.

indeed, i have always liked everything about it,

save for the "METAL SIREN" Valkyrie, that is. Ugh...

like DYRL, it possesses an overriding message

that Love is what binds the universe together.

it may sound corny to many,

but it really is absolutely true.

No matter how amazing our technological prowess,

the human race is nothing without LOVE...

Edited December 4, 2009 by Shaorin

[Shaorin]

No, it was never an official Japan release. Macross II was always a 6-part OAV series in Japan. I don't recall who hacked it up in the first place. I remember this "movie" version being shown in small independent theaters here in the U.S. I remember seeing it at the Key Theater in Washington DC. It could've been U.S. Renditions as they were the first to release it here (U.S.) on VHS.

it was MANGA VIDEO...

[Shaorin]

I thought Mash was a newhalf.

nah, more like a NEWTYPE...

[TheLoneWolf]

MACROSS II was the very first of the MACROSS series

i had ever seen, outside of ROBOTECH.

it was back around christmas of 1995/96,

and it left a powerful impression upon me.

One of my friends had a similar experience. Macross II was his first Macross experience and he absolutely loved it. He went on to watch the rest of the series and liked them too, but MII always had a special place with him. On it's own, I think Macross II is a decent anime. But if you've already seen SDF Macross or DYRL, then it can come off as simply more of the same.

it was MANGA VIDEO...

Actually, US Renditions / LA Hero released Macross II in theaters back in 1993. Manga Video didn't get the Macross II license until 1995.

[Bri]

One of my friends had a similar experience. Macross II was his first Macross experience and he absolutely loved it. He went on to watch the rest of the series and liked them too, but MII always had a special place with him. On it's own, I think Macross II is a decent anime. But if you've already seen SDF Macross or DYRL, then it can come off as simply more of the same.

Actually, US Renditions / LA Hero released Macross II in theaters back in 1993. Manga Video didn't get the Macross II license until 1995.

hmm, I still have some Kiseki tapes of Macross II, if memory serves me right that was before 1995, or am I mistaken?

[505thAirborne]

MACROSS II was the very first of the MACROSS series

i had ever seen, outside of ROBOTECH.

it was back around christmas of 1995/96,

and it left a powerful impression upon me.

anyway, i know that i'm likely to be stoned to death,

but i've always thought MACROSS II to be quite good, actually.

indeed, i have always liked everything about it,

save for the "METAL SIREN" Valkyrie, that is. Ugh...

like DYRL, it possesses an overriding message

that Love is what binds the universe together.

it may sound corny to many,

but it really is absolutely true.

No matter how amazing our technological prowess,

the human race is nothing without LOVE...

No stones to be thrown your way!! Same here, grew up Robotech, Saw Macross DYRL in 85, Loved it all. Saw a bootleg of Flashback 2012. Loved it, cried & said farewell to all the characters. many years later, I forget 93-94? I saw Macross II. Loved it and all the designs, metal Siren is cool, not my all time favorite and the Macross cannons look Vicious to me!! Mac II however is only enjoyable Subtitled, makes the story much more appealing. the dubbed version is really bad. Some call it rehash of of DYRL and hey, it pretty much is, but its still Macross, still fun & still awesome for me all these years later.

And when they make a 1/60 VF-2SS+SAP I'm getting a whole squadron together!!!

[jenius]

I have found that people who hadn't seen DYRL (because it wasn't available in the US) but then saw MacII when it saw a US release seem to have much better feelings toward MacII than others.

[Uxi]

Ugh, am I the only one that hates the Macross Cannon design? It's like poster boy for the lazyass rehashed mecha design and recycled storytelling on that show.

Nah, I think it's more logical successor to the Macross than the MegaRoad, specifically the synthesis of Zentradi design with human reverse engineering..

Edited December 4, 2009 by Uxi

[Keith]

I am here to proclaim that Macross Frontier & Macross Ultimate Frontier have finally turned me from my hatred of Macross II, but I'll be damned if the Macross Cannon gunships aren't still fugly.

[Seto Kaiba]

One of my friends had a similar experience. Macross II was his first Macross experience and he absolutely loved it. He went on to watch the rest of the series and liked them too, but MII always had a special place with him.

Yeah, I had a similar experience. Robotech was one of the shows that got me interested in anime, and Macross II: Lovers Again was my first foray into real Macross.

I am here to proclaim that Macross Frontier & Macross Ultimate Frontier have finally turned me from my hatred of Macross II, but I'll be damned if the Macross Cannon gunships aren't still fugly.

It's a Christmas miracle!

[Zinjo]

It's a Christmas miracle!

ROFL!!

Well if I can accept Basara (after a fashion) in M7, then I guess anything is possible...

[Marzan]

Ugh, am I the only one that hates the Macross Cannon design? It's like poster boy for the lazyass rehashed mecha design and recycled storytelling on that show.

I think its pretty spectacular. It just oozes power!

[RDClip]

Ugh, am I the only one that hates the Macross Cannon design? It's like poster boy for the lazyass rehashed mecha design and recycled storytelling on that show.

I hate it, too. It's not exactly the most thought out design.(How do you one-up(or four up) the old SDF-Macross, you build a ship with four cannons instead of one, lol)

[Robelwell202]

Ugh, am I the only one that hates the Macross Cannon design? It's like poster boy for the lazyass rehashed mecha design and recycled storytelling on that show.

To me, the Macross Cannon was a pretty good design. My only issue with it is this: I wish they'd've done it with purpose-built gun booms, as opposed to cheaping out (This is simply how it looks to me) and slapping a quartet of Zent ships on it.

But hey, I'm wierd, anyway. Just ask Seto. He tells me all the time that I'm wierd.

[anime52k8]

To me, the Macross Cannon was a pretty good design. My only issue with it is this: I wish they'd've done it with purpose-built gun booms, as opposed to cheaping out (This is simply how it looks to me) and slapping a quartet of Zent ships on it.

what bugs me is that it LOOKS like they took 4 Nupetiet-Vergnitzs class ships and stuck them onto a big transforming hull, but they didn't. they're actually whole new structures.

so the design looks lazy (because they just recycled old ship designs) but has no logical justification. (if they WERE Nupetiet's you could argue that they were recycling captured zentradi ships to cut costs.)

[Seto Kaiba]

I hate it, too. It's not exactly the most thought out design.(How do you one-up(or four up) the old SDF-Macross, you build a ship with four cannons instead of one, lol)

To me, the Macross Cannon was a pretty good design. My only issue with it is this: I wish they'd've done it with purpose-built gun booms, as opposed to cheaping out (This is simply how it looks to me) and slapping a quartet of Zent ships on it.

For the longest time, I've entertained the pet theory that the main batteries on the Macross Cannon-class gunships don't just look like Zentradi Nupetiet-Vergnitzs-class battleships... that they are, in all likelihood, a resource-saving move on the part of the post-2054 U.N. Spacy. Instead of building an immense gunship with converging beam cannons hundreds of times the power of the Macross's main cannon, why not draw on the surfeit of captured Zentradi ships for existing spaceframes to modify and save a lot of time, effort, and materials in the bargain? Budget superweapons.

I hoped against hope that Macross Chronicle might actually go yea or nay on this one, but no luck.

Edited December 6, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[RDClip]

The thing that really annoys me about MacII is the fact that the series is supposed to take place like 80 years after DYRL, but they are using a VF-2? Am i to understand that in 80 years they've only developed one new VF? Say what you will about the VF-2 looking like a reasonable evolution from the VF-1, but after 80 years that arguement kinda falls flat. Do any jet fighters we use now look like planes from the 30's?

And they are reusing Zentraedi ships to build their battleships rather than any new designs?

Seems like the engineers in the MacrossII universe are a little lazy.

(I would've maybe be more lenient on it had they set it in a more reasonable timeframe)

Edited December 6, 2009 by RDClip

[Vifam7]

The thing that really annoys me about MacII is the fact that the series is supposed to take place like 80 years after DYRL, but they are using a VF-2? Am i to understand that in 80 years they've only developed one new VF? Say what you will about the VF-2 looking like a reasonable evolution from the VF-1, but after 80 years that arguement kinda falls flat. Do any jet fighters we use now look like planes from the 30's?

The F-15 Eagle which entered service around 1975 is expected to remain in USAF service until 2025. That's about 50 years of service.

The B-52 Stratofortress bomber which entered service in 1955 is expected to remain in service until 2040!

[Freiflug88]

For the longest time, I've entertained the pet theory that the main batteries on the Macross Cannon-class gunships don't just look like Zentradi Nupetiet-Vergnitzs-class battleships... that they are, in all likelihood, a resource-saving move on the part of the post-2054 U.N. Spacy. Instead of building an immense gunship with converging beam cannons hundreds of times the power of the Macross's main cannon, why not draw on the surfeit of captured Zentradi ships for existing spaceframes to modify and save a lot of time, effort, and materials in the bargain? Budget superweapons.

I hoped against hope that Macross Chronicle might actually go yea or nay on this one, but no luck.

Remember that asteroid Macross cannon factory in Macross II it looked too small to be the captured Zentradi factory itself from SDF Macross to me, but considering that the automated Zentradi factories allowed the technologically clueless Zentradi to be self sufficant its easy for me to see how the U.N. would be able to redesign and manufacture Zentradi Nupetiet-Vergnitzs-class cannons for the Macross Cannons from its technology which is the route I believe they went with. Jerry rigging existing ships for a prototype for testing would be one thing, but when your considering building converging beam weapons as humanity's last capable line of defense I think its better to mass produce new cannons that you know are reliable from the ground up over actually retrofitting old space frames that are in various states of wear.

The thing that really annoys me about MacII is the fact that the series is supposed to take place like 80 years after DYRL, but they are using a VF-2? Am i to understand that in 80 years they've only developed one new VF? Say what you will about the VF-2 looking like a reasonable evolution from the VF-1, but after 80 years that arguement kinda falls flat. Do any jet fighters we use now look like planes from the 30's?

And they are reusing Zentraedi ships to build their battleships rather than any new designs?

Seems like the engineers in the MacrossII universe are a little lazy.

(I would've maybe be more lenient on it had they set it in a more reasonable timeframe)

Lazy engineers and so little redesigns is understandable when you consder that the UN Spacey has apparently grown to weak from over reliance on the "Minmay Defense." They have been operating on the assumation that the Zentraidi fleets and possibly a few Supervision army remainants are the only possible space threat out there and that neither of them have the resources to approve their armaments. Since they feel they can handle any threat and there is no arms race their is of course little iniative for new weapons.

[Seto Kaiba]

The thing that really annoys me about MacII is the fact that the series is supposed to take place like 80 years after DYRL, but they are using a VF-2? Am i to understand that in 80 years they've only developed one new VF?

No, that's actually one of several fairly common misconceptions about Macross II and the whole parallel world continuity caused by a shortage of decent coverage by American publications and misinformation spread in the RPG books by Palladium.

The now-alternate continuity leading up to Macross II: Lovers Again does place a bit more emphasis on the crisis of resources caused by the destruction of Earth's surface and the near-annihilation of humanity, so understandably Earth's military doesn't bounce back quite as quickly. As such, they seem to follow a somewhat different design methodology in their VFs than the main timeline does. Rather than develop and introduce a whole new fighter every ten years or so like they do in the main continuity, the existing fighters receive periodic evolutionary upgrades to enhance their performance and extend their useful service lives, rather like what's done with many modern, real-world aircraft.

In truth, there are five known models of VF separating the service lives of the original VF-1 Valkyrie and the VF-2SS Valkyrie II. The first new fighter introduced was the VF-4 Siren, a number of which were assigned to the Megaroad-01 prior to its departure in 2014. After that came the VF-1R Valkyrie Kai, an all-systems evolutionary upgrade of the VF-1 Valkyrie developed somewhere between 2014 and 2030, which was the U.N. Spacy's main space VF by 2036 and first appeared in Macross 2036. After that came an evolutionary upgrade to the VF-4 Siren, the VF-4S, which was first seen in 2037 (Macross: Eternal Love Song) and came in three flavors, the basic VF-4S, the super pack-equipped VF-4SP, and the funnels-equipped VF-4ST. After that came the capture of a second factory satellite, and a major jump for the U.N. Spacy's tech level... which led to the VF-XX Zentradi Valkyrie, originally as a technology demonstrator and later a military-use VF in the 2060s. Then you have the original all-regime VF-2 Valkyrie II introduced in 2072, and nine years later in 2081, a space-based evolutionary upgrade of the S-variant... the VF-2SS Valkyrie II used in Macross II, was introduced.

Exactly why the numbering system is like that, I can't tell you. What I can tell you is that the VF-2SS Valkyrie II is only 11 years old when the Macross II OVA starts in 2092, and that at least five models precede it.

Say what you will about the VF-2 looking like a reasonable evolution from the VF-1, but after 80 years that arguement kinda falls flat. Do any jet fighters we use now look like planes from the 30's?

Vifam covered this pretty well... so I think I don't need to say anything about it.

And they are reusing Zentraedi ships to build their battleships rather than any new designs?

Waste not, want not... the official continuity for the now-alternate universe establishes that the U.N. Spacy was having semi-regular skirmishes and run-ins with small Zentradi fleets between 2011 and 2082, with three other major run-ins with large Zentradi fleets in 2036, 2037, and 2054, the latter of which decimated the U.N. Spacy's forces, prior to which they had only one known class of ship... the Daedalus II-class ARMD, which is sort of a synthesis of the TV series ARMD and the Daedalus-class assault carrier, in that it had the same weapons, but could also perform the Daedalus Attack.

After the December 2054 capture of a second factory satellite, the U.N. Spacy developed all the new classes of ship we see in Macross II. The converted Zentradi ships were used simply because they were convenient, they had a lot of them, and they kept capturing more with every Zentradi fleet they encountered and defeated. Zentradi ships are very low-maintenance and extremely durable, so it makes a lot of sense when you think about it. It's a hell of a lot more efficient converting them for U.N. Spacy use than discarding or scrapping them to build new ships.

Remember that asteroid Macross cannon factory in Macross II it looked too small to be the captured Zentradi factory itself from SDF Macross to me

I very much doubt it's a factory satellite... probably an asteroid-type space station ala Gundam.

We do know, however, that the U.N. Spacy had at least two captured Zentradi factory satellites... the one captured shortly after Space War 1 which figures prominently in Macross 2036, and the one captured in December 2054 which was the source of the new technology used in the VF-XX and VF-2SS.

They have been operating on the assumation that the Zentraidi fleets and possibly a few Supervision army remainants are the only possible space threat out there and that neither of them have the resources to approve their armaments.

Just one correction... the assumption would have been that the Zentradi and Meltrandi fleet remnants were the only threats remaining. There is no Supervision Army in the Macross II continuity. The SDF-1 Macross was originally a Meltrandi ship in DYRL.

[MilSpex]

Nice MII knowledge Seto Kaiba, I`m looking forward to your redesigned site.

I rewatched MII subtitled for the first time in a while today, it truly is the most authentic Macross sequel to me. No other sequel feels like Macross imho.

[Marzan]

Nice MII knowledge Seto Kaiba, I`m looking forward to your redesigned site.

I rewatched MII subtitled for the first time in a while today, it truly is the most authentic Macross sequel to me. No other sequel feels like Macross imho.

Seto Kaiba has a site?? Me wants to see it! I hope it comes with all sort of obscure and arcane Macross knowledge...

[Seto Kaiba]

Nice MII knowledge Seto Kaiba, I`m looking forward to your redesigned site.

Would you believe me if I told you that the lengthy explanation of the AU's VF design progression from my last post was actually the short version of that explanation? I originally gave a much more lengthy answer and had to perform a heavy-handed edit to get it down to a length that wouldn't automatically inspire a "tl;dr" in 90% of readers. I've gleaned a lot of new and interesting information from my digging around in old, forgotten publications, all of which will hopefully be made available for public consumption in the near future.

I rewatched MII subtitled for the first time in a while today, it truly is the most authentic Macross sequel to me. No other sequel feels like Macross imho.

Yeah, that's pretty much my feelings on the OVA as well. To me, Macross II: Lovers Again is the last Macross show that built on all of the themes and tone that made Macross a truly great series. Macross Frontier kind of met me halfway on the themes and tone aspect, so I'm rather fond of that show too.

Seto Kaiba has a site?? Me wants to see it! I hope it comes with all sort of obscure and arcane Macross knowledge...

Yes and no... I have a site, but it's been down for renovation for a while now. What started as a minor modernization effort on a seriously amateurish design I did back when I was a website design n00b ended up as a major ground-up redesign after a massive influx of new information made it obvious that we were going to have to rewrite every single article and add at least a dozen more. It's slower going than I'm used to, since I lost a few people to all the economic woes and the various military antics in the middle east, but we're soldiering on regardless.

(If you know anyone who's really good with CSS and wants to help, do feel free to let me know)

Edited December 6, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[VF5SS]

The Macross Cannons are kind of uninspired and it doesn't help that they are just background filler with no important characters associated with them.

[Bri]

The now-alternate continuity leading up to Macross II: Lovers Again does place a bit more emphasis on the crisis of resources caused by the destruction of Earth's surface and the near-annihilation of humanity, so understandably Earth's military doesn't bounce back quite as quickly. As such, they seem to follow a somewhat different design methodology in their VFs than the main timeline does. Rather than develop and introduce a whole new fighter every ten years or so like they do in the main continuity, the existing fighters receive periodic evolutionary upgrades to enhance their performance and extend their useful service lives, rather like what's done with many modern, real-world aircraft.

Waste not, want not... the official continuity for the now-alternate universe establishes that the U.N. Spacy was having semi-regular skirmishes and run-ins with small Zentradi fleets between 2011 and 2082, with three other major run-ins with large Zentradi fleets in 2036, 2037, and 2054, the latter of which decimated the U.N. Spacy's forces, prior to which they had only one known class of ship... the Daedalus II-class ARMD, which is sort of a synthesis of the TV series ARMD and the Daedalus-class assault carrier, in that it had the same weapons, but could also perform the Daedalus Attack.

After the December 2054 capture of a second factory satellite, the U.N. Spacy developed all the new classes of ship we see in Macross II. The converted Zentradi ships were used simply because they were convenient, they had a lot of them, and they kept capturing more with every Zentradi fleet they encountered and defeated. Zentradi ships are very low-maintenance and extremely durable, so it makes a lot of sense when you think about it. It's a hell of a lot more efficient converting them for U.N. Spacy use than discarding or scrapping them to build new ships.

We do know, however, that the U.N. Spacy had at least two captured Zentradi factory satellites... the one captured shortly after Space War 1 which figures prominently in Macross 2036, and the one captured in December 2054 which was the source of the new technology used in the VF-XX and VF-2SS.

Interesting, I always wondered what happened in the Macross II timeline between DYRL and MII. Is there a summary of events (for those that cannot read Japanese) around that fills in the gaps? Doing some google searches left me a bit confused with several contradicting explanations, including some that deny the existance of a separate timeline.

[Gubaba]

Interesting, I always wondered what happened in the Macross II timeline between DYRL and MII. Is there a summary of events (for those that cannot read Japanese) around that fills in the gaps? Doing some google searches left me a bit confused with several contradicting explanations, including some that deny the existance of a separate timeline.

Seto wrote this up a while ago:

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...&forumid=24

Although I think he said he was planning on revising it at some point.

[Valkyrie addict]

Sorry, who's Seto again and why did he write that timeline?

[Gubaba]

Sorry, who's Seto again and why did he write that timeline?

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showuser=2536

He's probably the closest thing there is to a Macross II expert in the west. He's also apparently some kind of nefarious ringleader who organizes his legion of fans into strike teams whose sole purpose is to annoy Robotech fans.