The protagonist you like the least

[ssfsx17]

I voted Alto and Ranka

Alto is thick as a brick, has not been shown to have any more kills than Michael or Luca, and really, can't be said to have done much of anything of significance in the series besides fly some people around. Contrast with:

- Hibiki - war journalism is clearly not the safest profession in the world, and he didn't even pack any heat or anything, but he did it without complaining

- Shin - he was smart enough to figure out how to defuse the threat of the AFOS, you gotta give him credit for that

- Basara - I'm biased because I like Submarine Street, My Soul For You, and Get Free. Seriously, GET FREE

Ranka has absolutely no qualities besides knowing some song, with her other songs having been produced by her manager. Her behavior consists basically of just being as oblivious as possible. Contrast with:

- Minmay - actually wrote her own songs, and eventually saw the light with regards to Hikaru

- Sara - has an actual personality, and was quite right about the effects of modern civilization on the island's ecosystem, with napalm being dropped on it and what not

- Myung - capable of breaking out of living audio cables that nearly killed her, and was able to figure out how to handle an MP-5

- Mylene - actually knows how to play both the bass and the guitar, and My Friends is an awesome song.

[Gubaba]

- Minmay - actually wrote her own songs, and eventually saw the light with regards to Hikaru

Hmmm? When did they say Minmay wrote her own songs?

[Ghost Train]

Basara: He belongs in a mental institution.

Ranka: I hate insects. She is their little queen.

[Fortress_Maximus]

Completely concur with ssfsx17 and Renato! Alto in particular could have been easily replaced or interchanged with another character like Michel or Ozma who were much more interesting to watch. All Alto did was B*TCH, fly off the handle, and constantly act like he was entitled to "fairness" or something more. In many ways he was the worst indecisive drama queen compared to other indecisive ladies like Minmay and Myung.

I definitely also vote Alto and Ranka as the most useless characters. Watching paint peel is more interesting than those two.

Edited September 10, 2009 by Fortress_Maximus

[Roy Focker]

Shin & Alpo are the same basic character but I'm tempted to have sex with only one of them.

[Dangard Ace]

I actually liked Alto being a drama queen. Gave Ozma a good reason to deck him when he demanded to be allowed to fly out and fight the Vajra. That was an awesome scene.

[dreamweaver13]

Hmmm? When did they say Minmay wrote her own songs?

We know of at least one: Cinderella (that was the one she was singing while trapped under SDF, right?). the rest? dunno.

[Gubaba]

We know of at least one: Cinderella (that was the one she was singing while trapped under SDF, right?). the rest? dunno.

Well...she specifically mentions that her composer wrote "My Boyfriend Is a Pilot" (and possibly other songs, depending on how you read that line in episode 10) for her.

Me, I like to think that the later songs in SDFM (or at least "Farewell to Tenderness") were written by Minmay herself (ditto "An Angel's Paints"), but I really don't know.

At least we KNOW that Myung, Fire Bomber and Sheryl wrote their own songs...and I really get the feeling that Sharon Apple also composed her own music, or at least the lyrics.

Sara, though...there's a girl who didn't compose her own material, but was just satisfied singing an old standard from, like, um...a few thousand years ago...

[dreamweaver13]

Well...she specifically mentions that her composer wrote "My Boyfriend Is a Pilot" (and possibly other songs, depending on how you read that line in episode 10) for her.

Me, I like to think that the later songs in SDFM (or at least "Farewell to Tenderness") were written by Minmay herself (ditto "An Angel's Paints"), but I really don't know.

At least we KNOW that Myung, Fire Bomber and Sheryl wrote their own songs...and I really get the feeling that Sharon Apple also composed her own music, or at least the lyrics.

Sara, though...there's a girl who didn't compose her own material, but was just satisfied singing an old standard from, like, um...a few thousand years ago...

I have the same view of her later songs. after all, what's the point of all that symbolsim of her finally finding "her" song, if she still has someone else compose them.

You forgot to mention one song, though. and ironically, her most popular one in the macross universe: Oboeteimasuka - music and lyrics by the protoculture, translation by Misa Hayase. ouch.

Wait, are you sure Marge didn't write Sharon Apple's songs?

[Gubaba]

I have the same view of her later songs. after all, what's the point of all that symbolsim of her finally finding "her" song, if she still has someone else compose them.

You forgot to mention one song, though. and ironically, her most popular one in the macross universe: Oboeteimasuka - music and lyrics by the protoculture, translation by Misa Hayase. ouch.

Wait, are you sure Marge didn't write Sharon Apple's songs?

Yeah...DO You Remember Love, written by Protoculture...Aimo, written by Vajra...Arkan, written by the original Mayan people...

Macross has a lot of VERY old songs, doesn't it?

And I think Sharon's lyrics are too scrambled and weird to really be composed by any human...unless her initials are "YK," that is...

[Einherjar]

Hibiki, the space paparazzi. Seriously, even with a Valkyrie pilot license what did he do besides be a bad, censured journalist?

[Gubaba]

Hibiki, the space paparazzi. Seriously, even with a Valkyrie pilot license what did he do besides be a bad, censured journalist?

What did he do? He helped save the earth, he re-enacted scenes from "Roman Holiday," he cracked the gruff exterior of Sylvie, and he taught Ishtar "the meaning of love." That's not enough for you?

[Vepariga]

i say Shin and mao, i mean i liked macross Zero,but not for the characters,which is abit of a fail on its side. they where not as fleshed out and likeable/interesting as everyone else.

[Kronnang Dunn]

Ranka has absolutely no qualities...

But she has green hair...!!! *sobs*

[Einherjar]

What did he do? He helped save the earth, he re-enacted scenes from "Roman Holiday," he cracked the gruff exterior of Sylvie, and he taught Ishtar "the meaning of love." That's not enough for you?

Didn't he start a world wide panic while trying to expose the lies of the U.N. Spacy?

[Gubaba]

Didn't he start a world wide panic while trying to expose the lies of the U.N. Spacy?

I don't remember any riots or looting or anything of that nature...

And hell, if he'd exposed them sooner, there wouldn't have been that whole Moon Festival fiasco...

[VFTF1]

I can't believe that aside from my heroes Basara and Ranka taking "first place" in this "worse character" poll... second place is occupied by two more characters who I find compelling and love - namely Shin and Sara

I think Shin was a perfection of the Hikaru/Everyman archetype with a more compelling underpinning for his "pacifism" (Hikaru's was never really explained; with Shin, we get a very good understanding of where he's coming from, the memories that drove him to seek vengeance, and the subsequent change in his goal from vengeance to a world where "the ground does not shake). Shin is well written and on the mark. There are no excentricities in him; but this makes it easier for everyone to identify with him.

As for Sara - she is a great character. I mean - what could possibly be wrong about her? She is torn between loyalty to her father and her traditions on the one hand AND love for a city dweller and the secret lie she lives with (that she was tempted by pearls/beads to give up her blood) on the other. She's a perfectly tragic character while also being perfectly romantic.

And the love story in Macross Zero is the best one in the entire Macross universe. Sure, it's not as amusing, there aren't any panties to chase down, no butt-grabbing scenes and certainly very little (well pretty much zero) "love triangle tension" - but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Not all Macross love stories have to follow the same template.

This one is very straight forward and simple.

I also do not find Sara to be a mouth piece for Kawamori's views - she's complex enough not to be labeled a propaganda billboard. We simply tend to forget that in her public role she IS the chief Priestess on the island.

Chief Priestesses have this knack for spouting dogma - it's their job. But this doesn't mean Sara doesn't have private feelings and thoughts, and it doesn't mean she isn't a woman and doesn't feel love for Shin.

The whole situation just makes for a better story.

I dunno, I've probably written this somewhere - but Macross Zero is probably the best Macross story ever told. The only thing that is "bad" about it is that it is "short" - but then again - it can't be anything but short since it has a simple point in terms of what it is trying to accomplish, and it does that.

Pete

[dreamweaver13]

I can't believe that aside from my heroes Basara and Ranka taking "first place" in this "worse character" poll... second place is occupied by two more characters who I find compelling and love - namely Shin and Sara

Well, you can take solace in the fact that one of your favorites (Misa) doesn't have a vote to her name.

EDIT: Wait, there's one already? Oh my, who dared vote for the cougar?

so Guld is officially the only one without a vote? what's wrong guys, scared of being labeled an alien-hater?

Edited September 11, 2009 by dreamweaver13

[dreamweaver13]

And I think Sharon's lyrics are too scrambled and weird to really be composed by any human...unless her initials are "YK," that is...

Well, if it turns out that YK really isn't from this planet, as hypothesised, your main premise would still be correct.

[VFTF1]

Well, you can take solace in the fact that one of your favorites (Misa) doesn't have a vote to her name.

I was about to say "obviously" since I can't imagine ANYBODY voting for Misa as "least liked" in ANY category.

In fact, I think that love of Misa is perhaps the one and only thing that ALL Macross fans can agree on.

But apparently I'm wrong

So - who voted for Misa?

I'm very curious to learn why someone who vote her least liked. The only plausible reason that comes to mind is that they just LOVE Sheryl, Ranka, Ishitar, and all the other girls that much more - while Misa can't sing.

Hmm...

Maybe that's it? Maybe it's because Misa is the only heroine in Macross who can't sing, doesn't sing, and isn't an idol?

She's an "everywoman" in a way that Hikaru was an everyman...albeit her story a bit more fleshed out what with her military family history and the comparissons to the coldness of the Zendradi being a great spring board for some of the show's more thoughtful themes...

Er..

yeah...

So... who voted Misa and please tell us why ?

Pete

[D' only]

Why Misa... Misa should be PERFECT!

[nexxstrait]

Didn't he start a world wide panic while trying to expose the lies of the U.N. Spacy?

It's the press, baby, the press. And there's nothing you can do about it.

[mike_s_6]

For the males, I don't dislike any of them, so I just ticked out those I loved (Hikaru, Isamu and Guld), and then performed a Russian roulette on the rest. I presently forgot who exactly got the bullet.

For the girls, I consciously chose Ranka, because she was the one for whom I actually said, "Bad move girl, bad move." You don't slap a sick dying person you know is actually very strong, knowing you have the cure. That one scene decided it.

[thankheaven]

Basara, Shin, Mylene and Sheryl. I know some see Sheryl as strong, i agree but i also found here rather annoying at times and the annoying parts won out over the strong parts for me.

Shin is probably the most boring Macross character ever.

Ranka im not so sure about. I like her but its like they tried too hard to make her the cutest character ever and i felt they over did it.

Edited September 11, 2009 by thankheaven

[mitch]

Basara and Silvie.

Basara is an important figure in Macross lore, but he just annoys the s#*t out of me. "Listen to my song! Listen to my song!" I ALREADY HEARD PLANET DANCE A HUNDRED TIMES! PLAY SOMETHING DIFFERENT!!!!

Silvie because out of all the female protagonists in the poll she's the one I connected with the least. To be fair M2 was pretty badly written from the start. A shame since the premise has so much potential to be good.

Didn't go for Mylene because she's a 14 year old girl so its not surprising she's annoying, she can't help it.

Poll notwithstanding, I would have gone with Lynn Kaifun (That dude needed a serious beatdown and never got one), and Vifidas because on stage she's a good drummer, but the rest of the time she incessantly drums with all the skill and rhythm of a 3 year old.

If there was a distinction between SDFM Minmei and DYRL Minmei I might have gone with SDFM Minmei. She crazy.

[dakedo]

How can anyone vote for Mylene !!!

WTF!!!

She is the most beautiful character in the macross universe. so cute.

Whats wrong woth you people?????

[Keith]

Not anywhere near enough votes for Hibiki, he barely did freakin' anything in his show!

[Einherjar]

Not anywhere near enough votes for Hibiki, he barely did freakin' anything in his show!

Did he even shoot anyone down while flying?

[Gubaba]

Did he even shoot anyone down while flying?

Is that the judge of a good protagonist? How many people they kill?

'Cause then Bodolzaa is the greatest hero of all.

[VF5SS]

Shiva from Macross 7 Trash. This was back before Mikimoto knew how to write interesting characters in addition to drawing pretty girls.

Hibiki is king of like a proto-Shiva. He mostly suffers from being divorced from the show's action. Even his link to the military, Silvie, doesn't get to do much fighting. Nexx does all the cool combat scenes but its hard to care because Nexx is a total douchebag.

[VFTF1]

For the girls, I consciously chose Ranka, because she was the one for whom I actually said, "Bad move girl, bad move." You don't slap a sick dying person you know is actually very strong, knowing you have the cure. mad.gif That one scene decided it.

Didn't...Sheryl slap Ranka...not Ranka slap...Sheryl? I mean... I remember Sheryl slaps Ranka when Ranka refuses to use her song power to try to stop the Vajra attack but...

When...when did Ranka slap ANYBODY?

I honestly can't remember that. If I'm wrong - so be it...apparently my memory is playing tricks on me but...who did Ranka slap that was sick and dying?

How can anyone vote for Mylene !!!

WTF!!!

She is the most beautiful character in the macross universe. so cute.

Mylene is beautiful; yes. I really do like her songs and I think she's a fine character. However...

That get up she wears in concert looks HORRIBLE. And I do mean horrible.

I didn't vote for Mylene - thought never crossed my mind - but I think that people who haven't patiently watched her and admired her in Macross 7 might vote for her in the poll just because she LOOKS like cack in that concert get up.

Poll notwithstanding, I would have gone with Lynn Kaifun (That dude needed a serious beatdown and never got one), and Vifidas because on stage she's a good drummer, but the rest of the time she incessantly drums with all the skill and rhythm of a 3 year old.

Yeah but at crucial moments in the plot she says seemingly mundane yet earth shatteringly important things.

Is that the judge of a good protagonist? How many people they kill?

'Cause then Bodolzaa is the greatest hero of all.

Well...technically "good protagonist" doesn't literally need to mean "good" protagonist... But point taken

Still...

I find this discussion amusing because we all seem to generally LIKE all of the Macross characters enough to make it hard to DISLIKE them.

In fact -I would suggest that people aren't voting based on dislike, but based on an inverted "like" scale. That is...they look and say...well...I like Y the most, X as well, oh and I can't not like W and hey Z is awesome...so I guess that leaves A who's cool in some respects but...whatever - gotta vote for somebody.

But I wonder: OTHER THAN Nekki Basara - who constantly gets his own HATE threads even on Macross World, which is home to so many Macross lovers (I'd hate to see how viral the hatred for Basara would be in casual anime fans )...

Are there any characters that you really really disliked?

I'm getting the sense that Ranka registers really badly for some people... but I wonder whether that's just because they love Sheryl so much and it isn't related to some kind of shipping thing?

Kaifun on the other hand... I dunno... I don't think people dislike him as much as they like Hikaru enough to hate it when a guy like Kaifun commands not only Minmey's sympathy but then has all the girls falling in love with him too and ends up knowing Kung Fu...

Truly a good thread - because it's difficult to hate. Easier to gush

Pete

[Gubaba]

Didn't...Sheryl slap Ranka...not Ranka slap...Sheryl? I mean... I remember Sheryl slaps Ranka when Ranka refuses to use her song power to try to stop the Vajra attack but...

When...when did Ranka slap ANYBODY?

I honestly can't remember that. If I'm wrong - so be it...apparently my memory is playing tricks on me but...who did Ranka slap that was sick and dying?

Episode 25...Ranka psychically bitchslapped Sheryl. But since it all happened in "communal mental fold space," I'm not sure if Sheryl physically felt it...

But I wonder: OTHER THAN Nekki Basara - who constantly gets his own HATE threads even on Macross World, which is home to so many Macross lovers (I'd hate to see how viral the hatred for Basara would be in casual anime fans )...

Are there any characters that you really really disliked?

I'm getting the sense that Ranka registers really badly for some people... but I wonder whether that's just because they love Sheryl so much and it isn't related to some kind of shipping thing?

It's a good question. There are certainly a number of peope who REALLY hate Ranka, and are quite vocal about it. But, as you say, a lot of it may be due to love of Sheryl...since it seems like ANYTHING Ranka does, they'll cast it in the most negative light possible and run with that interpretation, to the point where recently, when the picture of the chibi versions of Ranka, Sheryl, and Klan appeared, a number of people complained that Ranka looked about 8...despite the fact that that is the ENTIRE POINT of chibi versions.

So I'm sure that they'll tell you that they had Ranka because of the choices she made (and because she has small breats...that seems to crop up a lot as a criticism), but I suspect that it's really because they think she's trying to break up the REAL love story in Frontier.

If Klan (or Nanase, or Cathy, or the bridge bunnies) had tried to shove Sheryl aside, they'd probably hate her just as much.

[VFTF1]

Episode 25...Ranka psychically bitchslapped Sheryl. But since it all happened in "communal mental fold space," I'm not sure if Sheryl physically felt it...

Oh that. But that was like a loving lesbian slap. It was no different from the one Sheryl gave her earlier on. It's just how beautiful women motivate eachother - by slapping themselves from time to time. No reason to hate on Ranka for it.

Plus it was a sign of maturity. She was like - see. I'm not a kid anymore. I can sing, hit on Alto, and bitch slap like the best of 'em.

As for her breasts - I don't think they're that small at all. I think they're proportional to the rest of her body. I mean, that's really what's most important IMO. If you imagined Sheryl's boobs on Ranka - it just wouldn't work because Ranka has a different figure.

Besides, it would be like complaining that Sheryl's breasts are small compared to Nanase. Again - different figure.

I actually like that about Macross - they are very alert to the subtle physical differences between girls and they are able to show a variety of different beautiful women with interesting personalities.

The thing about Ranka that might get to some people is that she goes fairly rapidly from being shy, unsure of herself and in admiration of others (but always doubting herself) to being a woman with some strong convinctions about the Vajra, the war, and her role in all of it.

And at the time, before knowing how things would end up - some of those decisions were indeed...odd, to say the least. It's almost as though she even gave up her love for Alto on principle, to journey with Brera to the Vajra home world and seek out a peaceful solution...

She became what Sheryl only marketed herself as - the true Songstress of the Galaxy... like Nekki Basara...

but... this is supposed to be the hate thread...and there I go praising people again

Pete

oh....

and will the person who voted to dislike Misa ppllleeeaaaassseee step forward? I'm just curious to hear why? It's not like I'm gonna pour hot lead over your head for it But honestly I can't think of even one reason to dislike her... not even any mild reasons...

[mike_s_6]

Episode 25...Ranka psychically bitchslapped Sheryl. But since it all happened in "communal mental fold space," I'm not sure if Sheryl physically felt it...

It's not so much as if Sheryl felt it, as to the fact that Ranka delivered it. Also, mind everyone, I also disliked it when Sheryl slapped Ranka, but Ranka had it coming because she was refusing to defend people when she knew she can. Because she was romantically heart-broken. It's the traditional "wake up call", though I sure wished she only shouted at Ranka and not hit her. But when Ranka slapped Sheryl, what kind of wake up call is that? A wake up call to a person who has done everything she can, then is now giving up as she is near death? There was nothing in any Macross series (even within Macross F itself) that made me really annoyed of a specific action. That it was Ranka who pulled it off makes people think I'm just rooting for Sheryl in the love triangle, but truly, it's not. It felt wrong to me on so many different levels.

I also ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to accept that slapping people is a mark of a grown woman motivating another. It is childish at best.

[ff95gj]

That get up she wears in concert looks HORRIBLE. And I do mean horrible.

One thing I don't like about Basara is his stage costume... It reminds me of the pilot suit of Kouji Kabuto from Mazinger.

Although it's quite appropriate for someone who pilots a mech with a mouth.

But I wonder: OTHER THAN Nekki Basara - who constantly gets his own HATE threads even on Macross World, which is home to so many Macross lovers (I'd hate to see how viral the hatred for Basara would be in casual anime fans )...

Don't worry... Non-Macross-lovers would not care, or just skipped the show altogether.