Macross 13 Fleet

[Sketch]

So there are more than Megaroads, NMCs and ICCs emmigration fleets out there. Macross Galaxy Mainland isn't a either a NMC or ICC. It launched in 2031, ten years prior to Macross Frontier, yet having the Macross 21 designation. Macross 1 launched in 2031 and Macross 7 in 2038. Macross 25 launched in 2041.

I still haven't seen a citation for your claims regarding Macross Galaxy's numbering (re: 9th fleet) or launch date. I haven't seen this anywhere in Chronicle, or the Compendium.

Also, see the above post by Sketchley;

It's another assumption on RedWolf's part.

The official information offers only the following clues:

51st Super Long Range Emigration Fleet (Macross 21 Galaxy)

55th Super Long Range Emigration Fleet (Macross 25 Frontier)

Edited September 9, 2009 by Sketch

[RedWolf]

I still haven't seen a citation for your claims regarding Macross Galaxy's numbering or launch date. I haven't seen this anywhere in Chronicle, or the Compendium.

Krespy translated the BD material Macross Galaxy launch was 10 years prior to Macross Frontier launch.

Macross Chronicle cited Macross Frontier launch was 2041. Given this we get 2031 launch date.

Mind you I surprised too when I found out Macross Galaxy was a earlier fleet compared to Macross 7.

As for the numbering in the episode 1 opening Macross Galaxy had M-21 and in the Macross Frontier final episode Battle Galaxy had 21 on its decks, 2 and 1 on each arm.

[azrael]

I still haven't seen a citation for your claims regarding Macross Galaxy's numbering or launch date. I haven't seen this anywhere in Chronicle, or the Compendium.

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Macross_Galaxy_%28fleet%29 (Notice Macross Galaxy Fleet, not Macross Galaxy)

The liner notes for MF vol. 3 DVD/Blu-Ray mention Galaxy left Eden about 10 years prior to Frontier. There's no listing in later publications however so it's possible that the liner notes got it wrong. Yes, wrong. I've seen it listed as the 9th fleet, the 21st fleet, and the 51st fleet. Which makes my head spin.

[Sketch]

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Macross_Galaxy_%28fleet%29 (Notice Macross Galaxy Fleet, not Macross Galaxy)

The liner notes for MF vol. 3 DVD/Blu-Ray mention Galaxy left Eden about 10 years prior to Frontier. There's no listing in later publications however so it's possible that the liner notes got it wrong. Yes, wrong. I've seen it listed as the 9th fleet, the 21st fleet, and the 51st fleet. Which makes my head spin.

Well, it being the 51st colony fleet is internally consistent with the numbering of Macross 7 and Macross 25.

Interestingly enough, one of Sketchley's translations lists Frontier as being the 11th Super Long Distance Emmigration fleet (http://www.macrossroleplay.org/forums/index.php?topic=1422.0). I wrote that off as a mistype, but it would make sense if only a few fleets had that distinction, Frontier and Galaxy being examples of such.

As for the validity of the liner covers and the decade earlier launch; in Frontier episode 7 the narrator states that Galaxy was launched several years before Frontier (every translation I've seen has used the word 'several'. I think if it was a decade long gap, the wording would have been different.

Edited September 9, 2009 by Sketch

[RedWolf]

It is interesting that 13 is the designation for secret and covert operations Macrosses.

When you think about it the ship assigned to the investigation of the Varauta prison planet was Megaroad 13.

From the Macross 7 Plus Spiritia Dreaming clip Varauta was a top secret confidential mission.

[Gubaba]

It is interesting that 13 is the designation for secret and covert operations Macrosses.

When you think about it the ship assigned to the investigation of the Varauta prison planet was Megaroad 13.

From the Macross 7 Plus Spiritia Dreaming clip Varauta was a top secret confidential mission.

You're making WAY more out of this than is actually there.

There are four Macross F novels.

Vol. 1 is 318 pages.

Vol. 2 is 341.

Vol. 3 is 391.

Vol. 4 is 294.

That's 1,344 pages total. Of which less than one is devoted to Kim's Macross 13.

Hell, this thread is already about four times as long as the section about it.

Not only that, but the novels tell a different version of the story than the series, so they may not even be canonical.

Let it go, man...let it go.

[Keith]

Guy's, don't get colony fleet mixed up with NMC (New Macross Class) colony fleet. I'd wager that Galaxy is the 51st colony fleet, and 21st New Macross Class. Frontier obviously being the 25th.

[sketchley]

As Mr. March can attest the fleet designations are messy and unified.

Why are you referring to a 3rd party source? Why not go with direct sources, such as translations? Even the Macross Compendium is starting to show some mistranslations and "coloring"...

FYI, the fleet designations are quite clear. If, and only if, one understands that a single fleet has multiple designations.

Also, please stop using the shorthand "NMC". Is it New Macross Carrier? New Macross Class? Take the time to spell it out...

... and take the time to find your sources, and cite them. Memory isn't infallible.

Edited September 9, 2009 by sketchley

[sketchley]

Guy's, don't get colony fleet mixed up with NMC (New Macross Class) colony fleet. I'd wager that Galaxy is the 51st colony fleet, and 21st New Macross Class. Frontier obviously being the 25th.

Colony fleet? The term is 移民船団 - emigrant or immigrant fleet. (We've been down this road before. One can search the site for the discussion.)

I'm not entirely certain that the Macross Galaxy Fleet is the 21st New Macross Fleet. It does have the 21st New Macross Carrier, aka 21st Battle (class) ship.

Here's my source (take note Redwolfy): http://www.macrossroleplay.org/forums/index.php?topic=2017.0

IMHO, based on the preceeding Emigrant Ships (SDF, Megaroad, New Macross Class) and that the Island Cluster Class is designated as being the 5th generation of emigrant fleet, either the Macross Galaxy Mainland (if memory serves, the correct name of their Emigrant/City ship) is either the 4th generation OR the emigrant ships in the Macross 7 fleet (Riviera, Three Star, etc.) are the 4th generation type.

[Mr March]

Which makes my head spin.

Ditto. I don't think much of anything is being clarified here.

[RedWolf]

Ditto. I don't think much of anything is being clarified here.

Look at the bright side. Now we know such designations won't be given to any Macross 13.

Here all this time we were thinking Wilbur Garland snatched it from some Macross emmigration fleet.

The reason why Battle 13 was called Macross 13. The reason why the Saratoga II, a Macross 13 Carrier Vessel, was going all over the place fighting Black Rainbow, Critical Path and Vindirance. Being part of an unofficial special forces fleet fits.

[Gubaba]

Look at the bright side. Now we know such designations won't be given to any Macross 13.

Here all this time we were thinking Wilbur Garland snatched it from some Macross emmigration fleet.

The reason why Battle 13 was called Macross 13. The reason why the Saratoga II, a Macross 13 Carrier Vessel, was going all over the place fighting Black Rainbow, Critical Path and Vindirance. Being part of an unofficial special forces fleet fits.

STOP TALKING LIKE YOUR SPECULATION IS FACT! PLEASE!

[Project Phoenix]

Agreed. Let's not make any conclusions until we've got clarification from the Chronicles or other canonical sources.

Since sketchley has been kind enough to translate the stuff, let's read it to be informed before posting any speculations.

[Project Phoenix]

I'm not entirely certain that the Macross Galaxy Fleet is the 21st New Macross Fleet. It does have the 21st New Macross Carrier, aka 21st Battle (class) ship.

That's what Keith is getting at. The '21' he is referring to points to Battle Galaxy being the 21st Battle-class ship.

Edited September 12, 2009 by Project Phoenix

[sketchley]

That's what Keith is getting at. The '21' he is referring to points to Battle Galaxy being the 21st Battle-class ship.

Yes, and this is why we have to be extremely careful with the terminology we use.

New Macross class = combined Battle class and City class ships.

Battle Class Variable Stealth Attack Space Carrier (shortened to Battle class) = which, if memory serves, is shortened to NMC in the series (New Macross Carrier).

[SchizophrenicMC]

Yes, and this is why we have to be extremely careful with the terminology we use.

New Macross class = combined Battle class and City class ships.

Battle Class Variable Stealth Attack Space Carrier (shortened to Battle class) = which, if memory serves, is shortened to NMC in the series (New Macross Carrier).

So... Would NMC suffice for New Macross-class and NMCV for New Macross-class Carrier?

[RedWolf]

So... Would NMC suffice for New Macross-class and NMCV for New Macross-class Carrier?

No if we apply real world US naval nonclementure CV means Carrier Vessel. Warships in UN Spacy are known to carry the CV-XXX identification.

NMCV could be an abbreviation of New Macross Carrier Vessel. Not a class name but likely a purpose/role classification.

[Project Phoenix]

Yes, and this is why we have to be extremely careful with the terminology we use.

New Macross class = combined Battle class and City class ships.

Battle Class Variable Stealth Attack Space Carrier (shortened to Battle class) = which, if memory serves, is shortened to NMC in the series (New Macross Carrier).

Exactly sketchley. That is what I understood as well.

For Macross 13, since it has NO city-ship attached and it's not part of the official colony/emigration fleet registry, it is misleading when the carrier is also given the designation "Macross" except maybe to evoke the legendary vessel's name.

Like Gubaba mentioned earlier, Macross 13 could be a codename for the entire secret fleet tasked to defend the Earth. As to what and how many ships are in the fleet, that is still unknown.

Edited September 12, 2009 by Project Phoenix

[Gubaba]

Like Gubaba mentioned earlier, Macross 13 could be a codename for the entire secret fleet tasked to defend the Earth. As to what and how many ships are in the fleet, that is still unknown.

And (I hasten to repeat) it was in the Macross F novelization, which may not be canonical.

[sketchley]

(...) official colony/emigration fleet registry (...)

Again, it's not a colony fleet. Emigration and Immigration are synonymous, but colonization is not.

And for those disbelievers: 超長距離移民船団

[Keith]

Look at it this way. Macross 7 was the 31st colonization fleet, So assuming 14 more "Battles" were fleet heads directly between Battle 7 & Battle Galaxy, that still leaves around 6 un-accounted for non New Macross fleets launched in that time, an odd hole, unless some Megaroads were re-used.

[Project Phoenix]

Again, it's not a colony fleet. Emigration and Immigration are synonymous, but colonization is not.

And for those disbelievers: 超長距離移民船団

Okay. I get your point. Thank you.

Keith: Macross 7 was the 37th, not the 31st EMIGRATION fleet.

Just making it clear.

[akt_m]

It takes days for fans to come up with a logic, it takes a coin flip to Kawamori mess with all of it.

Edited November 5, 2009 by akt_m

[RedWolf]

It takes days for fans to come up with a logic, it takes a coin flip to Kawamori mess with all of it.

Well yeah Macross 13 has been listed as a NMC in the compendium since forever.

We were always wondering where its City ship was only for the MF novel to tell us it doesn't have any.

Events in the MF novel as far as Earth is concerned is confirmed by Macross Chronicle glossary article on Kim Kabirov.

So the 13 NMC built is distributed among the Macross 1,3,5,7,9 and 11 fleets.

Battle 13 was serving as the Battle class flagship for the Macross 13 fleet till Vindirance fleet blew it up.

Which in turn makes us wonder if Kim Kabirov is commanding a new Battle class called Macross 13.

[Gubaba]

Well yeah Macross 13 has been listed as a NMC in the compendium since forever.

We were always wondering where its City ship was only for the MF novel to tell us it doesn't have any.

Events in the MF novel as far as Earth is concerned is confirmed by Macross Chronicle glossary article on Kim Kabirov.

So the 13 NMC built is distributed among the Macross 1,3,5,7,9 and 11 fleets.

Battle 13 was serving as the Battle class flagship for the Macross 13 fleet till Vindirance fleet blew it up.

Which in turn makes us wonder if Kim Kabirov is commanding a new Battle class called Macross 13.

Here's the text. Knock yourself out.

[Sketch]

So the 13 NMC built is distributed among the Macross 1,3,5,7,9 and 11 fleets.

I still have no idea where you got the idea that there are only odd numbered fleets. There is no evidence at all to support this hypothesis, and it simply doesn't stand up to Occam's Razor in light of each emigration fleet's numbering.

Marcross 7 = 37th

Macross 11 = 41st

Macross 21 = 51st

Macross 25 = 55th

It's all internally consistent and tidy, I have no idea why you're trying to make it more complicated than it is.

[RedWolf]

I still have no idea where you got the idea that there are only odd numbered fleets. There is no evidence at all to support this hypothesis, and it simply doesn't stand up to Occam's Razor in light of each emigration fleet's numbering.

Marcross 7 = 37th

Macross 11 = 41st

Macross 21 = 51st

Macross 25 = 55th

It's all internally consistent and tidy, I have no idea why you're trying to make it more complicated than it is.

This does.

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/New_Macross_Class

Ships in class

Name

Macross 1

Macross 3

Macross 5

Macross 7

Macross 9

Macross 11

Macross 13

Add to the fact the other New Macross fleets we know in Macross Frontier is also odd numbered. No Super Long Range Emigration New Macross Class Fleet ever had an Even number.

Megaroad class emmigration fleets go for both odd and even numbering scheme. New Macross Class and Island Cluster Class fleets have an odd numbering scheme. Galaxy Mainland on the otherhand for some reason, likely for Battle 21, was considered the 21st New Macross Class Emigration Fleet. Even if it was a close contemporary of Macross 1 when it launched from Eden in 2031. Macross 1 left Earth in 2030.

According to Macross Chronicle Worldguide 17a Macross 7 Fleet there are only 13 New Macross Class ships produced.

In 2040 ending NMC production , they started producing Island Cluster Class ships.

Macross 13 is a bit of a recon by stating it isn't an emigration fleet but an Earth defense fleet. But it makes sense if you've seen the good end scenario of Macross VF-X2.

You only see the Battle class without any evidence of a City class or accompanying civilian fleet.

Edited November 6, 2009 by RedWolf

[sketchley]

This does.

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/New_Macross_Class

Add to the fact the other New Macross fleets we know in Macross Frontier is also odd numbered. No Super Long Range Emigration New Macross Class Fleet ever had an Even number.

Erm, that's "known ships in class". Compare to http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Northampton_...#Ships_in_class . There are obviously way more Stealth Frigates than are present on the list. Same holds true for the New Macross Class. (Though, I don't blame you. I blame bad parsing on the compendium, coupled with a lack of documentation.)

According to Macross Chronicle Worldguide 17a Macross 7 Fleet there are only 13 New Macross Class ships produced.

? Really. It does? Where?

[RedWolf]

? Really. It does? Where?

You did.

Going to correct my last post here...

from Macross Chronicles:

Worldguide 17a "Macross 7 Fleet"

scanlation: "Only a few New Macross Class where made, 13 in total. After that it was the Island Cluster class and so on."

Worldguide 18a "Macross Frontier Fleet"

scanlation: "the 25th fleet comes from the numbering of the Battle escort warship (25). This isn't a New Macross Class, but an Island Cluster class. It's the 55th Super Long Range Emigration Fleet."

[sketchley]

Ah yes. Found it.

Anyhow, that's 13 New Macross class ships. Aka combined Battle class ship and City class ships. Which is further complicated with the "plurality" (Macross Chronicle term) of New Macross class ships in the Macross 5 fleet; possibly others as well.

Nevertheless, Macross 13 is not a New Macross class ship, nor (to the best of my knowledge) considered to be a Super Long Range Emigration Fleet.

So... your best bet (aimed at Redwolf) is to hold off on making grande summations until those with knowledge of Japanese can finish translating the relevant pages in Macross Chronicle and beyond. Also, keep in mind that Macross Chronicle isn't infalible (there have been errors and typos elsewhere). So, I'd wait for another publication to print the same information before claiming it's definite.

[Gubaba]

So... your best bet (aimed at Redwolf) is to hold off on making grande summations until those with knowledge of Japanese can finish translating the relevant pages in Macross Chronicle and beyond. Also, keep in mind that Macross Chronicle isn't infalible (there have been errors and typos elsewhere). So, I'd wait for another publication to print the same information before claiming it's definite.

Add to that the fact that RedWolf is often looking for EXTREMELY detailed information that may not get covered in Chronicle...or even exist at all.

[Sketch]

Add to the fact the other New Macross fleets we know in Macross Frontier is also odd numbered. No Super Long Range Emigration New Macross Class Fleet ever had an Even number.

The compendium is just listing the ships that have appeared on screen or in off-screen works (radio daramas, etc.).

Edited November 6, 2009 by Sketch

[azrael]

So... your best bet (aimed at Redwolf) is to hold off on making grande summations until those with knowledge of Japanese can finish translating the relevant pages in Macross Chronicle and beyond. Also, keep in mind that Macross Chronicle isn't infalible (there have been errors and typos elsewhere). So, I'd wait for another publication to print the same information before claiming it's definite.

I would say it's best to refrain from making grand theories in general with Macross. Stuff changes in Macross all the time. Hell, I'm looking at the VF-19 entries right now and the stuff on the Compendium, to the info in the M7 Master Collection liner notes, to the info in the Chronicle has changed over the course of time. Talk about a headache of a rewrite.

Add to that the fact that RedWolf is often looking for EXTREMELY detailed information that may not get covered in Chronicle...or even exist at all.

I don't even think Kawamori and co. has that much detail running through their heads.

The compendium is just listing the ships that have appeared on screen or in off-screen works (radio daramas, etc.).

I would say it lists the information that's "story relevant". There are thousands of more ships names out there but are they relevant to the story? No.

[RedWolf]

The compendium is just listing the ships that have appeared on screen or in off-screen works (radio daramas, etc.).

Macross 3 wasn't shown or mentioned in any show, manga, radio drama etc....

Only Macross 1 (Macross 7 episode 1) , Macross 5 (Macross 7 episode 23,24,25,26), Macross 9 (Macross Generation drama cd) and Macross 11 (two page Macross English Anticipation Manga, mentioned in Macross Dynamite 7, shown Macross Frontier episode 25).

Yes I like details.

As I said in the Fleet Designations thread I saw a pattern in the number scheming with New Macross Fleets.

We haven't heard of any Macross 2 or Macross 4 or Macross 6 etc... Only odd ones including in Macross Frontier.

Though I can see why Studio Nue wouldn't name a Macross 2 fleet. As you associate Macross 2 to Big West's Macross II Lovers Again.

As far as Studio Nue is concerned its a production set as a Parallel World. Also not a sequel to DYRL as Big West says it is.

Edited November 6, 2009 by RedWolf

[gamlin]

Macross 3 wasn't shown or mentioned in any show, manga, radio drama etc....

Macross 3 --> Macross VF-X 2 (in booklet and game itself).