I think i figured out Macross7

[Gubaba]

Wow, this is coming as a revelation. I gotta take note of this for the Macrosspedia.

Yes, it's terribly bad news for the throngs of Basara/Elma shippers, isn't it?

[RedWolf]

Yes, it's terribly bad news for the throngs of Basara/Elma shippers, isn't it?

They have clones for most of the populace which means they have genetic engineering. Looking at Michael Blanc I assumed he was Zentradi.

(young Elma asking a catatonic Basara if he's already hitched)

Zolans have longer ears, two tone hair, and for males hairy arms. Also naked Elma doesn't have a pouch.

Since the Protoculture was expecting their creations to be able to crossbreed with Zentradi , Zentradi genome could be a common denominator.

[Gubaba]

They have clones for most of the populace which means they have genetic engineering. Looking at Michael Blanc I assumed he was Zentradi.

(young Elma asking a catatonic Basara if he's already hitched)

Zolans have longer ears, two tone hair, and for males hairy arms. Also naked Elma doesn't have a pouch.

Since the Protoculture was expecting their creations to be able to crossbreed with Zentradi , Zentradi genome could be a common denominator.

Macross f novels AND Macross Chronicle both mention that Michael has some Zolan blood in him.

[VF5SS]

If Macross 7 is parody, it wouldn't matter how many shows are like it, how many mooks are blown up or how much footage is recycled: the cannibalism of itself for parody would make it all a pointless endeavour for any other reason. Like I said.

Who said it was a parody? I'm just saying if you want a straight up military robot show, there's plenty of them out there and Macross 7 might not fit your definition of being one.

[Max Jenius]

Macross 7 takes the concepts presented in the original series & takes them a step further. It's pretty much all the same, just more in your face. I mean, really J-Rock or J-Pop Bubblegum saves the day... take your pick. It's pretty much just a more extreme situation with a more extreme protagonist. (EXTREME!!!!!!!)

[RDClip]

Who said it was a parody?

...Me lol

Anyway good to see my rant has lead to a long thread.

I still stand by my theory that M7 was Kawamori screwing with the macross franchise or the mecha anime genre as a whole (there is a bit of this in MacF with alto's bishonen-ness being a point of ridicule or characters being somewhat based on SDF:M characters with similar plot points turned on thier head). Not to say that it was an intentionally bad series, it does have many merits that can be overlooked at first viewing.

[RedWolf]

Macross f novels AND Macross Chronicle both mention that Michael has some Zolan blood in him.

Any Zent blood in that mix?

[Gubaba]

Any Zent blood in that mix?

From about four hours ago...

Really? Strange...it's subtitled in the Central Anime version of Dynamite 7, and I thought that was the standard fansub...

Anyway, Zomeo decides he's going to leave the Macross 9 Fleet, stay on Zola, marry Zoliet, and live the life of a hardworking Zolan. Zoliet's rather taken aback by this and says, "But..we can't have children." Zomeo asks why, and Zoliet says, "Well...you don't have a pouch."

Then the radio-show narrator breaks in and explains that humans and Zolans can't mate.

Which makes Michael's canonical human/Zentradi/Zolan heritage a bit of a mystery...

[VF5SS]

Michael could just be sterile. There are a lot of animals we mate like lions and tigers to make Ligers.

[Gubaba]

Michael could just be sterile. There are a lot of animals we mate like lions and tigers to make Ligers.

But if Zolans and humans can't reproduce, how was he born in the first place? Unless someone in his family was created through some kind of cloning/gene-splicing experiment...

[Hiriyu]

Macross 7 is full contained extreme levels of hot blooded manlyness, sadly a bit too much for some of the fanbase to take. That's ok though, because Macross 7 is still there for you when you've matured enough to understand it!

Hah!

[Keith]

I think the big distinction Ginrai is missing from the complaints is that is that even with Minmay songs they still had to BLOW UP Boldolza with weapons. So some people have the interpretation that is was very much a military victory won by soldiers using relatively conventional means (i.e. bombs)

In Macross 7 the point is what happens when the bombs don't work. I feel Frontier was a little weaker for trying to be more traditional anime sci-fi where the bombs still work for the most part and the singing is really just a pump you up moment.

IN SDF Macross, Minmay's effect on the outcome of the battle wasn't during the actual fight with Bodolza, which was out & out culture shock/distraction tactic. If the spies hadn't snuck aboard the Macross, and shared what they found there, humanity would have died, no matter how many reaction weapons were thrown at Bodolza.

-Minmay's songs awaken feelings through out the Britai Adoclas Fleet.

-Britai's grunts get super horny & decide to defect

-Britai & Exedor wisely assess the situation, if they don't defect too, Bodolza will take them out back & have them shot due to "contamination."

-The Britai Adoclas fleet provides pivotal information on Bodolza's fleet command structure.

-Despite heavy losses on Earth's side, the remaining weapons stockpiles on the Macross + the last act of the Grand Cannon + the 10,000 or so strong Britai Adocals fleet + Exedore's strategy of only going after the lead ships + Hikaru's idea of disrupting the chain of communication between those lead ships & their fleets by using Minmay = Absolutely nothing without the feelings awoken in Britai's fleet by Minmay's influence. It's that concept that all subsequent Macross series (Plus, 7, Frontier) built upon. Not the simple act of the culture shock. Do you really think Kawamori & co missed their own commentary on how fleeting the effect of culture shock is for any kind of long term? Come on.

Nekki Basasara is the ultimate culmination of theory that emotions shared from one person to another can influence an outcome. Sharon Apple was the antithysis of that very concept by showing the ultimate outcome of the culture shock theory. Which brings me to my favorite scene in Super Robot Wars Alpha 3, where Basara totally pwn's Sharon

[VFTF1]

Just so everyone knows - Kieth is my official spokesperson.

When I'm too busy to type something, and everyone is wondering what I'd say about a subject - just go read Kieth.

Pete

[Killer Robot]

Zolans have longer ears, two tone hair, and for males hairy arms. Also naked Elma doesn't have a pouch.

Frontier is weird in general that way, though. The three in Pixie squadron have large Zolan-like ears, and every other Zentradi in the series, as well as Michael, have the small points like Zentradi from Plus and 7.

[Keith]

Just so everyone knows - Kieth is my official spokesperson.

When I'm too busy to type something, and everyone is wondering what I'd say about a subject - just go read Kieth.

Pete

::ahem:: "Keith"

[Renato]

Keith, I've seen you spell both "Basara" and "Ore no uta o kike!" wrong in the last couple of pages, so I'd give the guy a break.

As for this:

A story which denies your military fighting robot sabotages the entire endeavour of creating a military fighting robot story. The whole crux of the story then becomes functionally impotent. It's like sex without an orgasm.

Yeahhh.... I would say that Macross 7 is more like all orgasm without the sex.

[VFTF1]

::ahem:: "Keith"

Yeah - sorry about that. I did notice it right away, but when I went to edit, my internet connnection decided to take a work break and I couldn't. Then I decided to take a shower. Then I remembered I forgot to feed the cats last night, so I had to make them some grub. Then I needed to throw out last night's pizza box before the flies started to gather. Then I decided I need some coffee. Then I called my girlfriend to see how she was doing (she called me at 4 in the morning because she has a tooth ache). Only now have I sat back down to the computer and I see it is TOO LATE! TOO LATE!!!! NOOOOOOO!

Ahem.

Carry on.

Pete

[nexxstrait]

Really? Strange...it's subtitled in the Central Anime version of Dynamite 7, and I thought that was the standard fansub...

Uh... I must confess I have a bootleg DVD of Dynamite, I'll try to find the CA version. By the way, I really can't believe a radio drama can be taken for granted, as it's only fiction. Maybe the Chronicle entry for Elma and her father can shed some ligt on this?

Edited September 16, 2009 by nexxstrait

[Gokurakumaru]

Give me a break. The troops decided to mutiny based on their love for microwaves and pop culture BASED AROUND A TEENAGE GIRL SINGING.

What war in history ever featured beaming a teenage girl's pop song directly to the cockpits of enemy and allied fighters alike? I love Macross, but it is not hard sci-fi.

Every war ever in the history of man featured defectors. You think it's somehow remarkable a large enough group of Zentradi could defect as to make a particular fleet impotent. I don't. People move to different countries and change their nationalities every single day based on cultural environment. Given the binary choice of "war" versus "peace-love-food-discos-sex" I'm surprised Bodolza himself didn't defect. I'm stunned you find it so incredulous.

Oh and as for "hard" sci fi. LOL. The definitions you post seem to vary based on what the central narrative which has absolutely nothing to do with its plausability.

To quote you:

"Is it a realistic prediction that in 1999 an alien spacecraft piloted by giants will crash on earth giving us the power to create transforming robot jet planes? No. Was it a realistic prediction in the '80s? No."

Would you call the story of "Contact" hard sci fi? It's the exact same concept as SDF Macross. Except aliens sought out human contact in that instance. But there are no transforming planes in that story so the fact that the spaceship travels through time which is completely disallowed by everything we know about spacetime doesn't bother you I suppose. Nobody's singing, after all.

Yeah, that's not IN SDF Macross, now is it?

Zentradi/human ancestory is in SDFM though. So sexual compatibility is pretty freaking unremarkable in that respect. You're suggesting the fossil record disproves the existence of a species or genetic intervention? In spite of the fossil record proving people wrong every decade or so? Do tell.

[VF5SS]

But if Zolans and humans can't reproduce, how was he born in the first place? Unless someone in his family was created through some kind of cloning/gene-splicing experiment...

Look at it this way, horses and donkeys can be bred to make mules which CAN'T reproduce. So basically their parents would be regular Zentradi, Zolan, or human which can reproduce to make two sterile children. I mean hey, Michael is such a mega playboy so maybe he likes being able to sleep around as much as possible (for a strangely mature 17 year old boy).

You gotta think in layers.

[VF5SS]

Do you really think Kawamori & co missed their own commentary on how fleeting the effect of culture shock is for any kind of long term? Come on.

No I'm saying THE FANS (man I am all capping like a bitch today) tend to remember the big explosions win the day as its very safe and conventional way of doing things. This is very true of fans on this site. Also a lot of people complain about Kawamori but they don't seem to acknowledge that the show as directed by Tetsuro Amino so maybe you should try comparing it other things he's done. Unfortunately for english speakers this is a narrow list which consists of the Starship Troopers OVA (which is awful) and Iron Leaguer (which has only a few episodes subbed). Kawamori's biggest involvement seemed to be taking pictures for the OP and ED sequences (especially in Dynamite 7) and creating the premise. Stuff like Zero and Frontier are more clearly Kawamori's productions since he was the director of Zero and the supervising director of Frontier. Macross 7 predates the founding of Satelight by at least a year.

Which brings me to my favorite scene in Super Robot Wars Alpha 3, where Basara totally pwn's Sharon

So that's where that sad Sharon portrait comes from. bombah!

[Renato]

By the way, I really can't believe a radio drama can be taken for granted, as it's only fiction.

OK, well, if you're gonna go down THAT road.....

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=30317

[Gubaba]

Uh... I must confess I have a bootleg DVD of Dynamite, I'll try to find the CA version. By the way, I really can't believe a radio drama can be taken for granted, as it's only fiction. Maybe the Chronicle entry for Elma and her father can shed some ligt on this?

It's here, from about 0:12 to about 1:45.

It doesn't really sound like it's "just a radio drama" to me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuaDyJzAjFQ...feature=related

[Keith]

Given the nature of the Protoculture, and the prowess they had with altering life on other planets, I'd take Zomeo & Zoliette with a big grain of salt. Do you really think the PC would screw up bad enough to make a potential future member of the Stellar Republic incompabitible iwth teh rest? We see a good share of both Graham & Elma, and I saw no pouches.

And even if we assume there are some marsupial pouches of some sort, that still wouldn't rule out genetic incompatability, it would just make it really awkward & strange to have sex, most likely with someone cuming in someone's puch with little in the way of traditional intercourse.

THAT'S RIGHT, I WENT THERE, BECAUSE YOU GUYS JUST WOULDN'T DROP IT!!

Now flashing back on the various Zolan city shots, does anyone remember seeing babies being carried in flesh pouches in womens belly's? Because I sure as hell don't.

[Agent ONE]

Basara doesn't need to grow or change as a character, he was right to begin with, knew exactly what he needed to do, and everyone else in the freakin' universe had to catch up to "him."

Dude... what. Sooooo what like, did he need to teach everyone?

[Agent ONE]

I usually don't actually read the sub-titles, or even look at what's going on. I just stare at Misa when she's on screen and dream about her when she's off screen.

Pete

... And you like 7. Which kind of proves its shallow. I see the whole thing as both gay and straight innuendoes, in some bizarre kiddie manner. I am not trying to start trouble (as I promised I wouldn't) but seriously. I see ZERO substance in the entire show, and you guys already know my list on negatives which fill the void normally occupied by plot. Even the questions here you guys are answering poorly... Keith shows up and says something like 'Basara is a manly man!!!' and you guys all jump for joy. Why doesn't someone actually summarize what a normal person should take away from this show?

[Keith]

... And you like 7. Which kind of proves its shallow. I see the whole thing as both gay and straight innuendoes, in some bizarre kiddie manner. I am not trying to start trouble (as I promised I wouldn't) but seriously. I see ZERO substance in the entire show, and you guys already know my list on negatives which fill the void normally occupied by plot. Even the questions here you guys are answering poorly... Keith shows up and says something like 'Basara is a manly man!!!' and you guys all jump for joy. Why doesn't someone actually summarize what a normal person should take away from this show?

What should a normal person take away from the show? A BURNING PASSIONATE HEART, AND A SOUND MORE EXPLOSIVE THAN MISSILES!

[VF5SS]

Keith is not really the man for depth, more like a spokesman. For myself, all I can do is look back on Macross 7 and recount the things I saw. I saw a young man, who was the biggest walking stiff learn to embrace the irrationality of love and fun. I saw a young girl struggling against her parents, her friends, and her own budding desires. I saw an adult woman chase after the enigmatic artist only to realize he'll never be tied down. I saw two friends reconnect through a broken past. I saw aliens whom were basically gods who were plotting to feed on human emotions only to succumb to them. I saw an eccentric mother trying to balance her own ego as she tried to control her last daughter. And that's what I remember right now.

We all watched as two strangers learned to fall in love again. Through them we had the joy of rediscovering Macross.

7 will be forever ours, faithfully.

bomba!

[RedWolf]

Given the nature of the Protoculture, and the prowess they had with altering life on other planets, I'd take Zomeo & Zoliette with a big grain of salt. Do you really think the PC would screw up bad enough to make a potential future member of the Stellar Republic incompabitible iwth teh rest? We see a good share of both Graham & Elma, and I saw no pouches.

And even if we assume there are some marsupial pouches of some sort, that still wouldn't rule out genetic incompatability, it would just make it really awkward & strange to have sex, most likely with someone cuming in someone's puch with little in the way of traditional intercourse.

THAT'S RIGHT, I WENT THERE, BECAUSE YOU GUYS JUST WOULDN'T DROP IT!!

Now flashing back on the various Zolan city shots, does anyone remember seeing babies being carried in flesh pouches in womens belly's? Because I sure as hell don't.

I suppose the so called pouch has been evolved (genetically manipulated in this case) out from being significant anymore.

FYI Humans has a remnant tail or the tail bone. Something left over from our primate ancestors.

In the Zolans case they may have pouch like , cats and birds on Zola, but it is nothing more than a vestigial organ.

In Ranka's case her hair is a vestigial organ from whatever lifeform her ancestors evolved from. The only other one known with living hair was Sivil.

Edited September 17, 2009 by RedWolf

[Keith]

Keith is not really the man for depth, more like a spokesman. For myself, all I can do is look back on Macross 7 and recount the things I saw. I saw a young man, who was the biggest walking stiff learn to embrace the irrationality of love and fun. I saw a young girl struggling against her parents, her friends, and her own budding desires. I saw an adult woman chase after the enigmatic artist only to realize he'll never be tied down. I saw two friends reconnect through a broken past. I saw aliens whom were basically gods who were plotting to feed on human emotions only to succumb to them. I saw an eccentric mother trying to balance her own ego as she tried to control her last daughter. And that's what I remember right now.

We all watched as two strangers learned to fall in love again. Through them we had the joy of rediscovering Macross.

7 will be forever ours, faithfully.

bomba!

Not a man for depth? Wouldn't say that, I've just been at this for over a decade, and when you've been at it for as long as I have, you get a feel for how much attention people pay to the defense of 7.

[VF5SS]

Well I didn't mean it as an insult. Just that you're more about the passion than the specifics.

[Keith]

Well I didn't mean it as an insult. Just that you're more about the passion than the specifics.

The only specific's people need to know, are that LOVE WILL SAVE YOUR HEART! LOVE WILL LIGHT THE LIGHT!!

[nexxstrait]

Uh, I cancelled the picture I uploaded!

Edited September 21, 2009 by nexxstrait

[Renato]

Not a man for depth? Wouldn't say that, I've just been at this for over a decade, and when you've been at it for as long as I have, you get a feel for how much attention people pay to the defense of 7.

As I said before, it's been a decade now so I would expect you could at least spell "KIKE!" correctly... Now you've even put it in your sig!

Edited September 18, 2009 by Renato

[Agent ONE]

What should a normal person take away from the show? A BURNING PASSIONATE HEART, AND A SOUND MORE EXPLOSIVE THAN MISSILES!

Yeah... Thats what I thought you would say.