VF-25S Armored Messiah

[Lolicon]

Hey all,

Felt like a douche posting in random places, so I figured I ought to just make my own thread. I'm not a pro modeler with the skills of someone like wm cheng nor do I have a lot of time to spend modeling (took me over three months to assemble my VF-25F, and I didn't even paint most of it), but I thought there are probably plenty of amateur (but not necessarily as lazy as me) modelers lurking about who might find these notes useful. My lack of modeling time also means my updates may be few and far between.

(Note: some of these pics have been posted elsewhere, but I'm just including them all in one place.)

I picked up the Armored 25S in June and after beholding its majesty, I decided I couldn't simply stick it together without painting it. So I picked up some bottles and cans of Tamiya paints and went for it! (I don't even own an airbrush!)

First off, there's a ton of parts, roughly double the number as a plain VF-25 kit. My computer desk with the parts all piled up.

Just cutting everything from the sprues and then sanding and polishing (where needed) took me like two weeks, working here and there. I sanded using 1200 grit to start, and then worked up to 1500 then to 2000 grit to smooth out and remove any traces where the parts connected to the sprues. I then used Tamiya polishing compound where needed to further smooth things out. Occasionally, a part would crack or tear at the connection point (some of the connections are ridiculously thick; thanks Bandai!), leaving an unsightly tiny crack that probably won't be visible to a camera, but it's visible to me. I filled those in using Tamiya surface primer (bottled) and sanded it smooth.

Once I had the parts sanded and prepped, I separated them all into their respective colors and sprayed them all at the same time. There's no white on Ozma's VF-25; the white is actually a super light gray color that's almost white. I used gunship grey on the armored parts, medium grey and US Navy insignia white for Ozma's main fuselage, and some other colors here and there.

Canopy tinting, the bane of all VF-25 builders. The best canopy tinting method I've read about is using a temperature-controlled dye. Uh, yeah, no way I'm going to spend that kind of money for the expensive dyes and equipment needed. I originally used Tamiya purple diluted in Future, but I've since borrowed wm cheng's method. Just a few drops of purple acrylic ink diluted in Future. I used FW "Purple Lake" color which is way too purple; a touch of blue food coloring fixes that. (FW makes another purple ink called "Velvet Violet" which is much closer to the VF-25 tint, but I wasn't able to find it at my local art supply store.) Here are side by side pics for comparison. Tamiya purple method on the left, newer ink method in the middle. Right picture shows how nice and clear it is.

The black canopy frame was done using a fine tip black Gundam marker. It's not the regular one that you can buy individually. It's the very fine tip marker that only comes as part of a set for 1200 yen. The paint mix seems to be different. Aside from a much finer tip, it also goes on with a glossier finish and isn't prone to chipping.

For all the internal skeleton parts (insides of the legs, upper arms, hands, etc) I used gunmetal to give a metallic appearance, and then did a wash to give it a grittier, dirty look and to make the details stand out more. This is actually my first time doing a real wash. For this wash I dissolved some grey and black Tamiya in rubbing alcohol, after applying a gloss coat over the paint job. I've since switch to oil wash, but haven't really tested it out yet. The off-white ankle discs were masked and sprayed as well.

As always, I threw away the crappy tailfin decals and just painted everything in (except the SMS insignia). Nothing special; just a lot of careful masking.

And now, the parts that have terrorized me for weeks: the micro missiles! As is well known, all the missiles are molded as a single solid red block. The thought of having to paint the red tips of each missile often left me curled up in a fetal ball crying myself to sleep at night. Anyway, I painted the missiles the same light grey/off-white as Ozma's fuselage, then used diluted black paint to color the base of the missiles black (kind of like a wash), and then sat there painting each of the tips with a red Gundam marker.

The use of a Gundam marker proved problematic because, for some reason, Gundam marker somehow managed to seep through two layers of gloss clear coat. I don't know how this could happen, but if I pressed my finger to the red tips, my finger would have red smudges on it. This made using an oil wash very difficult as the seeping red paint messed up the wash color, turning it from dark grey to brown most of the time.

The leg missile pod hatches come with a sticker for the grey border, but no decal. WTF Bandai? No way I'm using a sticker, so I had to carefully mask and spray the border. But I made the mistake of looking at the picture in the manuel rather then the CG model, so the dark grey border is incorrect on mine. Looks alright, but not 100% accurate. Oh well, live and learn. At least it's not a sticker.

Once I had the micro missiles and hatches finally painted, I was finally able to start assembling the piles of painted parts (alliteration!) that I had lying around. The joint for the chest flap was filled in using a metallic red Gundam marker.

Anyway, that's it for now. Anyone with questions, comments, suggestions, or any input whatsoever, please chime in!

[mickyg]

Wow, that's looking great! You'll have some followers, I'm sure, as popular as this kit is!

I'm considering a different approach to the missiles on my super kit. You know how the parts are already molded in colour, right? I'm thinking I'll paint the whole thing white, then wash the base with grey/black, then since the paints I'm using are acrylic, I'll just use windex and a cotton swab to remove the paint from the tips. I'll come back with a clearcoat, black wash the tips and it should look pretty good. If that fails, I'll use your method! Just have to get a red gundam marker first (which is probably why I'm opting for this other method in the first place)...

Question: are those boosters painted or just molded that colour? They look a lot darker (more realistic) compared to the super parts versions.

[Lolicon]

The boosters are painted and washed (one of the few parts I've gotten around to washing). They're molded in the same gold colored plastic as the Super parts. I painted everything with the exception of the black parts of the tailfins and lerx; those parts look good unpainted and are mostly hidden anyway as I'll be building this into battroid mode only.

Your method of painting the missiles sounds intriguing; I'd like to see how it turns out. If it turns out to be easy to do, I may do that for the VF-25G. My missiles currently are super shiny because of the gloss coat. It'll be toned down once the final semi-gloss coats are applied. Everything else looks flat because I haven't even applied the first gloss coat to them yet.

I also have not decided what to do with the purple-grey parts (the parts with the same color as the gunpod). Don't really have a good paint color for them, but I don't want to leave them unpainted either. Maybe I can coat them with the purple Future mix I have? Hmmm...

[mickyg]

So what colour did you use on the boosters? I really like the effect! Is that just silver with a black wash? And what sort of wash? I originally thought the bronze look of the boosters was really cool when I got the super pack but now I think it looks pretty unrealistic. Going the silver colour seems to be a lot more believable.

Try out the purple future mix and see you think. If you don't like, you can always windex it! Or if that's not strong enough, just ammonia works too. I do wonder if it's going to cover up the swirl marks in the plastic though.

[007-vf1]

There's nothing lazy about building the armored Messiah.. Dedication, is the least of the rights words to qualify the process.

[Lolicon]

For the boosters I painted them using Tamiya champagne gold (which turned out to be more silver than gold, a good thing). The wash was Tamiya black and german grey diluted in alcohol. I only wanted to get rid of the plastic swirls, but it turned out better than expected.

I'm having a rough time getting the oil wash to work right. I dissolved some oil paint in turpenoid, and then I use a super fine brush to dab it into panel lines and other recesses. I let it sit for about a day before I use a Q-tip to wipe off the excess. It works fine in deep panel lines, but on corners and shallow recessed I end up just wiping most of the oil paint right off (and leaving that nasty turpenoid residue). I also have a hard time getting the liquid to flow sometimes. Is there something I'm doing wrong? Is the mix too thick or too thin?

Some quick pics. Tried to get a picture of the metal finish on the internals. Navigational lights were painted using clear red and clear blue over a silver base.

[mickyg]

Hmmm... I'm not sure why you'd be getting those results. There are a couple of things that come to mind though. First, the consistency is important, but I've had reasonable luck with too thick and too thin so I'm not sure that'd be your issue. But just in case, too thin is probably better than too thick. But too thick just means it's messier, in my experience. Second, I find too thin dries quicker and gives a better result. I typically use maybe a bottle cap worth of thinner to half a pea sized glob of artist oil paint. Mix well and dab it on. The brush I use is a crappy testors angle type - about the worst brush you could imagine but the pointed tip (if you can call it that) helps the solution to "drip" into the lines well enough for my liking. Point being, don't worry about your brush too much! Anyway, the other thing I've noticed is the cotton swab method tends to be a bit too good. In other words, the cotton conforms to the part probably better than what you'd want, removing more from the grooves than is ideal. I must say I haven't used it much and prefer to use a paper towel instead. However, the engine nozzles are pretty irregular and might be harder with the paper towel approach. Main point - getting the oil to dry is probably what you're aiming for. Too thick and it'll take days to properly dry. Too thin and it will take hours instead and might be lighter than you'd expected but no big deal. I've had the odd occasion where I left the paint on too long and it was starting to set. Just a bit of thinner on a paper towel got it to come off perfectly.

Sorry, that probably asked more questions than it answered!

Just to make that whole post totally irrelevant (), whatever you're doing looks great. So if you don't mind the methods you're using now, I see no real reason to adopt the oil one unless you just want to expand your skills a bit.

[regult]

nice work lolicon! mine is still unpacked...after seeing what you call "amateur" approach, my plan seems simply a sacrilege to the model!

[shinagami]

wow! that's a lot of parts...i'll be thinking twice to get those superb kits. anyways, great work so far. keep it up!!!

[Andrew]

Great Work!

Just a question about the wing lights, did you spray on the clear colour? or do you hand brush it?

[honkhet]

great stuff, keep it up lolicon!

[Lolicon]

Hehe well I call it amateurish because I lack the time, skill, and materials to make it look like this:

The wing lights I was able to spray since I had some leftover clear red and blue from some, er, failed experimentation. But handbrushing works just as well. I'll paint the other navigational lights the same way, though I may have to do those by hand since it seems a pain to mask such tiny sections.

The purple Future mix on the purple-grey parts didn't turn out well. I'll have to paint them another color or just leave them as is.

Hopefully I'll be able to squeeze in a few hours this weekend.

[Excillon]

Nice work!

[Lolicon]

Brief update today. Haven't had time to make much progress, but I did get around to panel lining and getting a few decals applied to the legs. Just like with the plain VF-25, the Armored decals are the same thick, cheap decals with a noticeable dithering pattern from the silk screen or whatever it is Bandai uses to produce them. And of course the decals don't actually fit into the sections they're meant to cover! Familiar territory for anyone who's tried to decal any VF-25.

Armored decal 8: What the hell was I thinking trying to use this decal? Trying to fit a cheap Bandai decal over a semi-spherical surface? Wrinkles ahoy! A generous helping of Mr Mark Softer helped a little. I regret not going ahead and painting this part.

Armored decals 38, 39, 40, 41, 42: These decals are the red striped sections on the ankle sections. They're more or less the right shape, but they're too short to stretch across the length of the recess, and they're not wide enough either. But it's passable since it's not terribly noticeable unless you look really close. It might be harder to mask and paint because it's such a recessed area.

Armored decals 33, 34, 35, 36: These form the SMS lettering on the leg armor. You have to line up the decals over the curved gap in the armor plates. It's actually easier than it sounds. However, I noticed that the instructions have the numbering backwards. Decal 35 should be on top, and decal 36 on the bottom. Good job, Bandai!

Will update with close up pics when I get home.

EDIT: Added close up of the leg to show off the dithering on the decal, the wrinkling and improper size.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Lolicon

[Lolicon]

A note on the chest decals: for the love of all that is holy, I highly recommend trimming them into smaller sections!

The grey section of the chest missile covers and surrounding red trim are all one big C-shaped decal. Given my previous VF-25 decal experience, why I didn't think to cut this obviously pain-in-the-ass decal into smaller parts I can only attribute to a momentary lapse of insanity/cockiness. Trying to line everything up perfectly on such a f'd up shape was an exercise in futility.

It's going to take a lot of Mr Mark Softer to flatten this mess out. I avoid using this stuff as much as possible on these models because with Bandai's decals it takes forever for it to soak in; it'll quickly bead up on the surface long before it gets soaked into the decal, leaving an uneven mess. Basically, whenever I'm forced to use Mr Mark Softer, I have to sit there for awhile lightly brushing the decal with a small brush to keep the liquid from beading up until it finally soaks in and melts the decal.

All of this can be avoided by trimming the decal.

Incidentally, right after this, I started on the much-maligned ankle decals, well known for their tendency to wrinkle up and tear and being a royal pain, and was able to apply them flawlessly.

[mickyg]

Now you've got me worried! I'm about to start decaling some parts on mine (I think) and I've got Mr Mark Softer too. Previous use on some Academy model decals was awesome but if you're saying it doesn't soak in on these, I'm very afraid!

I can't believe that missile cover is one decal - that's MENTAL!

Very nice work, by the way!

[Lolicon]

Yeah using Mr Mark Softer is very unwieldy with these. If you gotta use it, use it, but be prepared to deal with the slow absorption and beading up of the liquid.

I'm probably going to trim the grey parts off and then just paint those sections. The dithering pattern on the decal is pretty clear and distracting in that photo, and it's still not perfectly lined up.

[Lolicon]

I "fixed" the decal! Of course, but "fixed" I mean I cut it out and just painted the light grey portion in. Compare this to the earlier photo. So much better now. Also finished assembling the legs and putting the final semi-gloss finish on.

So far I'm having a much easier time with the Armored than I did with the plain VF-25F, even though I'm actually painting it this time around. Perverse.

For panel lines, I usually use a 0.3 mm mechanical pencil with the edge sharpened even further by holding it at an angle and rubbing it on a piece of paper. This is an easy way of doing panel lines since it gives a nice grey line and you can erase/rub off any mistakes. And of course once you're applied a clearcoat, you don't have to worry about accidentally rubbing it off later.

For hard to reach places, I switch to a wash and just let the liquid flow into the cracks.

However, on the dark grey armor parts, pencil wasn't really showing up at all, so I switch to a Sakura brand micron pen. In person, the lines aren't all that noticeable, but whoa! In these pics the micron pen lines are very distinct and clear.

For the center of the chestplate, I painted the underside black since the decal only covers the front portion.

[mickyg]

Man, that is looking very, very nice! Those panel lines look great! Pencil huh? I had no idea pencil could look so good. My 25G is continuing to frustrate and seeing your results both inspires me and makes me a little jealous.

Keep up the phenomenal work Lolicon!

Edited August 31, 2009 by mickyg

[honkhet]

gosh i am still admiring how carefully you painted those missles they look neat

i just cant get the same on my side

those chest missle cover decals are a real pain to put on too,

glad to see urs come out nice and neat

i took a few days off from work to work on my armored alto,

will post a new thread soon on my progress

i am finally getting why there is all this love for WIP threads

[Lolicon]

Managed to squeeze in a little progress today. Hopefully I'll get some more time with the long Labor Day weekend.

Finished the arms finally. They're not terribly complicated; I just felt reluctant getting to them after the ordeal of the shoulder hex decals on the VF-25F. Although I think I did a serviceable (though not great) job on Alto's, this time around, instead of trying to apply the entire decal at once, I cut it at the corners into four separate pieces. This didn't really make things any easier, as the decal is a poor fit to begin with, and trying to line up all four pieces was a vicarious experience. But it did allow me to avoid the wrinkling issues that have plagued many a VF-25 modeler.

Once I got the hex decals on, the rest was a breeze. Painted the edges of the hexagons black as it's supposed to appear; the pro modelers never bother for some reason. Just like the underside of the lerx.

The shoulder sensors use another pair of ill-fitting decals. I just painted them in with silver and clear red.

(This VF-25F is my WIP progress battroid that's currently on hold.)

[mickyg]

Been meaning to ask how you did the shoulder hexes. So you cut them into 4 pieces, not 6, right? Just wondering how you handle the overlap that I'm guessing occurs at the edges? Doesn't look noticeable so whatever you do is worth imitating!

[Lolicon]

Been meaning to ask how you did the shoulder hexes. So you cut them into 4 pieces, not 6, right? Just wondering how you handle the overlap that I'm guessing occurs at the edges? Doesn't look noticeable so whatever you do is worth imitating!

I trimmed them at the upper and lower corners, skipping the "middle" corners. Good grief it'd be too much of an ordeal trying to line up six decals into an even hexagon, considering it's a bit dodgy with four.

[Lolicon]

Despite the long three day weekend (for us in the States), I didn't get to spend much time working on it. Most of the remaining parts are in that limbo state of being painted but still needing panel lines/decals/clearcoats/whatever. But I did manage to get enough done to start assembling some sections. It's starting to look like a VF-25 finally!

[Paliodor]

Very nice work. Clean, detailed and with good paint job. Keep up the good work.

Currently I'm finishing my VF-25G, I only painted few parts and that's all. I have airbrush but I'm not so experienced with it so I first will learn how to paint with it on my old gundam kits and then start painting macross plamos ^^

[Lolicon]

There sure are a lot of WIP VF-25G's in the wake of HLJ's clearance sale.

Yay! Ozma's unit finally has a head!

The 25S head has more moving parts than the 25F; the head collapses downward and the side vents swivel up and down, in addition to the head turrets. The head was somewhat difficult for me because it involved a fair amount of hand painting, which is probably my weakest skill. The black area around the "eyes", red sensors, base of the head turrets, and those grey thingamajiggers on the top of the head are hand painted.

The kit does not have decals for any of the sensors. You get one wonderful foil sticker for the big red sensor at the top of the head. And another for the eyes.

The single hardest part for me was just attaching the head to the neck because of the collapsible head. I accidentally chipped the chestplate while fidgeting with it.

Edited September 12, 2009 by Lolicon

[Lolicon]

I take back everything I said about previous decals: the shoulder hexes, Alto's head stripes, everything. The worst decal I've dealt with is the giant skull emblem on Ozma's back.

I guess it's just because I don't have much experience with such large, irregularly shaped decals, but I had a hard time with this decal. As soon as I lifted it out of the water, it wrinkled up and folded up on itself worse than any decal thus far. Then I spent a few minutes with the decal underwater, trying to flatten it out so I could try to lift it onto the backplate. I've labeled the whole ordeal "amateur hour" because that's what it would've looked like to an outside observer. At one point I chucked my tweezers aside and just used my fingers to flatten it out.

Once I actually got it onto the backplate, the rest was fairly easy. The horns spread across onto the swivel joints for the wings. I pressed it as flat as I could and let it dry before carefuly slicing that section to allow movement without tearing the decal, since this is going to be in battroid mode.

Also, off-topic slightly, but my friend convinced me to play Aion with him. I like their character creator.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Lolicon

[Lolicon]

Started assembling more completed pieces together. Nothing much new to add, as most of the parts I've done as of late are the plain VF-25S parts. That'll change soon enough; next up are the armored wing boosters and antenna pack.

Some minor paint chipping occurred while assembling. Strange that a model, something not known for durability, has parts that require brute force to assemble.

Also noticed that the grey looks rather blue in all my pics. I used a slightly darker shade of grey than the grey plastic and it definitely does not look blue in person. Odd.

[Cowpeeler]

How did you manage to get the red stripes and ankle spheres to come out so good? I spent twenty minutes wetting and reapplying the red stripes but they would not position at all until my knife tore the thing in half.

Which of course was followed by many explicit words as I dug out my paintbrush to try and hand paint the area.

[Lolicon]

You're using a knife to apply decals?

If you want to know, here's my clunky over-the-top amateur's guide to applying Bandai's Macross Frontier decals.

First, you want to make sure you're applying onto a fairly smooth surface; applying a coat of Future or other gloss coat is good for this.

I apply Mr Mark Setter to the area where I'm laying down the decal and then I use either a Q-tip or the tip of my tweezers to nudge them into position. Now if it starts to dry before I manage to get it perfectly positioned, I'll use my fingertip, dab it in some water, and touch one of the decal edges so the drop of water gets absorbed *under* the decal to moisten it and keep the decal from sticking to the part before I want it to.

Once the decal is perfectly lined up, I'll use a Q-tip or a cloth to touch one of the edges of the decal where there's liquid showing (being careful not to touch the decal itself) to soak up excess liquid. Then I'll touch the edge of the decal again with a little Mark Setter and then repeat soaking up the excess. Afterwards I'll let it start to dry into place for a few minutes; with Mr Mark Setter, if you've soaked up most of the excess, it should start drying and holding the decal in place. At this point i will take a Q-tip and gently dab the decal *straight downward* to squeeze out any remaining liquid, which is soaked up by the Q-tip, until the decal is flat against the part and all the liquid is squeezed out from under it.

If you happen to nudge the decal out of place doing this, as long as there's a little liquid left, you can gently nudge it back into place with the Q-tip. You may need to re-moisten it if it gets too dry and you've moved it out of place.

The ankle spheres are especially annoying and prone to wrinkling. Be sure you notch the three black sections with a knife before attempting to apply them. I've attached a crude MS Paint diagram. After applying them, since they're in a recessed section, I applied a generous helping of Mr Mark Softer and let it pool, so it gets all soaked up and will flatten out most or all the wrinkles.

Like all things, you'll get better with practice and develop your own techniques that will work for you.

[Lolicon]

I've been asked what I use for finishing coats so I'll put it all down here. I dislike Future because it's kinda clunky to deal with, takes a long time to dry, and is prone to dust during its long drying time. And I had problems with it lifting up decals when I brushed it on.

Awhile back I also used Model Master semi-gloss lacquer clearcoat, which worked fine most of the time, but occasionally it would inexplicably bubble up in a few spots; when it dried it left a pock mark. If I attempted to apply a second layer over the first layer after it dried, it would wrinkle up and ruin the smooth finish. WTF?

So now I use all Gunze Sangyo clears. I have never had any of the above problems with them. The clearcoats are lacquer based but I've safely used them on Tamiya acrylics. I prefer a semi-gloss finish for mecha models.

For gloss clearcoat:

http://www.hlj.com/product/GNZB-513

Semi-gloss clearcoat:

http://www.hlj.com/product/GNZB-516

Semi-gloss topcoat:

http://www.hlj.com/product/GNZB-502

Sadly I only started this specific layering late in my model, but it basically goes like this:

plastic part > paint > gloss clearcoat* > panel lines/wash > decals > gloss clearcoat* > semi-gloss clearcoat* > semi-gloss topcoat (as the final layer to ensure a uniform finish)

*Add as many layers of clearcoat you feel is needed to protect your decals, paint, etc.

The second gloss clearcoat step I only added recently, when I accidentally picked up the wrong spray. But it turned out even better and made the finish smoother and more even, so I'm keeping that step.

Some pics of the backpack unit done using the above steps.

[mickyg]

Wow! That looks amazingly good. So this is all from a rattle can? I'm just blown away (no pun intended). I can't tell from the angle/lighting of your pics, but do you trim the decal carrier film on those SMS markings or is the clearcoat just that good at making them a part of the paint job?

Keep it up man, loving your build(s)!

[Lolicon]

Thanks! I tried to get the light to catch it at different angles. I rarely trim the clear excess from around decals; only if I absolutely have to to get a decal to fit properly.

For the back piece, the edges of the carrier film are almost completely in with the background. You can only just tell if the light is really bright and my camera is up super close. I wish I had done as well with the earlier decals; those you can see where the edges are if the light catches it just right.

Tried to get some close ups with the light glaring off.

[mickyg]

If I look real closely, I think I can imagine I'm seeing clear edges! Looks really good! My fear with clearcoating, and likely the reason I haven't experimented with it more, is time and concern that it might go on too thick and ruin my panel lines. I've had some issues with the oil wash not "sticking" to the lines very well, even when the underlying paint isn't glossy. I fear if I build up the layers of paint with clearcoat, it'll make those lines into soft "dents" instead of the cliff faces they should be. Having said that, I don't see that being an issue from your pics and you're using 2 more coats than what I'd planned. I think I just need to take the plunge!

Those last 6 photos, if they're your earlier work and the ones you were saying weren't as good as the back part, they're still amazing to look at! I forget how small all these parts are from the pics man, it looks huge!

[Lolicon]

Not to worry about coats filling in panel recesses. The Gunze Sangyo coats go on real thin (assuming you spray properly in passes and not like an overzealous graffiti artist heh) and it dries very quickly. It's dry to the touch within minutes so it doesn't take long to apply multiple coats. And they always some out smooth and even. Just be careful since the clearcoats are lacquer based. Although they didn't eat into the Tamiya acrylics, they can possibly eat into other non-lacquer substances. I only use Tamiya so I don't know how it will react to say Testors or other brands.