Dobber Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) Sigh, I don't know why I even got my hopes up for that thing.....Stupid me was thinking maybe...MAYBE...it would be closer to a MP. A definate pass for me. Chris Edited November 4, 2009 by Dobber
VFTF1 Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 Don't worry. I was SO stupid that before the first Movie toys came out, I was CONVINCED that ALL of them would at least be at the level of Binaltechs, if not MPs. My reasoning was thus: It's the Live Action Movie - the biggest event in Transformers history - Hasbro will surely make the greatest toys they ever produced for this. Then I got wave one. That was the beginning of the end of my relationship with Transformers... Pete
Dobber Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 LOL! I feel your pain. Plus after handling the first voyager SS I was convinced that with the slightest bit of effort a pretty nice figure (acurate in both modes) could be made. I (wrongly) figured that a scaled up version would allow for smaller hinges and such and we would get a great looking replica. I keep forgetting that this is first and foremost a childrens toy. Chris
Dobber Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 Maybe one day Takara will make a MP movie SS and other figures. Chris
Tober Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 I got the Device Label Jaguar (Ravage) and Tigatron USB drives today. I'm liking them alot. Excuse the crappy camera. I only have a webcam for digital shots... Jaguar and Tigatron. Jaguar and Tigatron with G1 Ravage and Kiss Players Position Glit's weapons stuck on with a twist-tie. Jaguar greets Alternity Argent Convoy somewhere, sometime, somehow in the Alternity multiverse.
VFTF1 Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 Wow. Those USB and Alternity toys actually look really good..when seen as extremely miniaturized thumb nails... Ok...sorry...that was a lowball comment... I really appreciate that Transformers fans on this thread don't hang me...seriously... I guess I'm just a 30 year old TF fan who is bitter about how the franchise let him down after sticking with it through so much crap...I didn't gripe ever before...and now it's just all bawling out of me...like a volcano exploding... Pete
Dobber Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 Woohoo! Stopped by Walmart after work and scored a MP Skywarp!!! Thank god no long hunt! They had a whole endcap of them. Maybe they won't be hard to find as SS was. I was, though, shocked by the price ....$60! Chris
treatment Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 Woohoo! Stopped by Walmart after work and scored a MP Skywarp!!! Thank god no long hunt! They had a whole endcap of them. Maybe they won't be hard to find as SS was. I was, though, shocked by the price ....$60! Chris heh! double-heh! on the $60 pricing. haven't found it, yet, but i did finally relented and gotten the red-version of powerglide for $25 at the local wally's. yeah, i know. i already have the first version with all its ugliness, too.
Vermillion21 Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 Woohoo! Stopped by Walmart after work and scored a MP Skywarp!!! Thank god no long hunt! They had a whole endcap of them. Maybe they won't be hard to find as SS was. I was, though, shocked by the price ....$60! Chris Lucky. And congrats. FAWK - where's MP Skywarp at my local stores????
Vermillion21 Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 Somebody needs to update their sig D'oh!! You're right - but I'm too lazy ...
mospeadamacrosstech Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 Don't worry. I was SO stupid that before the first Movie toys came out, I was CONVINCED that ALL of them would at least be at the level of Binaltechs, if not MPs. My reasoning was thus: It's the Live Action Movie - the biggest event in Transformers history - Hasbro will surely make the greatest toys they ever produced for this. Then I got wave one. That was the beginning of the end of my relationship with Transformers... Pete Pete, we're in the same boat. I never really liked the movie designs, but the toys were just the needle that broke Prime's back. Although I do have to give props to the Leader Class Optimus for ROTF. But the Takara-Tomy version just makes the US version look like crap.
Vermillion21 Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 Some more TF news: 1. TF RoTF Legends Devastator to be released in G1 colours http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/t...-colors-168743/ 2. Revenge of the Fallen Leader Class Starscream Video Review http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/t...-review-168740/
RD Blade Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 Some more TF news: 1. TF RoTF Legends Devastator to be released in G1 colours http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/t...-colors-168743/ The only way I'd touch a ROTF Devastator. Although the Photoshopped colors kinda cast a bit of doubt about the announcement's authenticity. 2. Revenge of the Fallen Leader Class Starscream Video Review http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/t...-review-168740/ It's odd. Hasbro's quality and paint apps seem to drop dramatically as the figures get more complex. Or maybe it stays the same, but is more glaringly obvious due to the increased size.
VFTF1 Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 (edited) It's odd. Hasbro's quality and paint apps seem to drop dramatically as the figures get more complex. Or maybe it stays the same, but is more glaringly obvious due to the increased size. I think the real reason for the drop in quality is that every time Hasbro announces a new TF, we're also looking at pictures of new Gundams, Revoltechs, VFMs, valkyrie, statues and even gashapom which show more craftsmanship and attention to detail than what they're doing. In short: there is no love in Transformers any more. although, there really hasn't been since BW. In fact, looking back at it now, I wonder whether Beast Wars was just a fluke since nobody was sure whether the brand would experience growth after it. I mean, G2 didn't help generate lasting sales - and whenever the execs see something as a 'fad' they probably don't care enough to intervene... But really for the past X years Transformers has undergone systematization - it's just a formulae of reboots.... I agree with the person who posted above that since it's aimed at kids in a certain age range, they need to reboot it every year hit the new up and coming age range but... I dunno... On the other hand... I just have a feeling that Transformers is the new asset bubble. It's been riding on nostalgia and love of something long gone and buried and it will burst. The high profits from the first move - and the toy sales from the first movie - are the zenith. My prediction: Transformers will dissapear from toy shelves in 2011. The third movie will be their death. And maybe that's a good thing because if the series stays dead a while - maybe fans will remember the good, forget the bad, and something sensible can one day be made of it... Or maybe not. Maybe it'll be around forever. Maybe they've figured out how to perpetuate it forever. Then again - I am again being overly extremist. Animated was decent. It wasn't fully satisfactory but it was certainly a move in the right direction compared to the Unicron Trilogy... But still...I dunno... the toys - the mainline toys get worse and worse... Pete Edited November 6, 2009 by VFTF1
eriku Posted November 6, 2009 Author Posted November 6, 2009 I can't look at toys like Classics Bumblebee and Universe Cyclonus, or most of Animated and agree with the sentiment that "there is no love in Transformers anymore". You may not like them, but the people who sculpted them certainly did.
VFTF1 Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 That's true. I'm just being gloomy as standard MO for this thread Pete
promethuem5 Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 Pete, your doom and gloom is killin' me That's not to say I don't necessarily agree with you... I think Transformers probably could use a year break from the mainstream toy shelves or something... the glut of stuff that comes out around the movies seems to just totally overstay the welcome that all the additional momentum garners.
hutch Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) In short: there is no love in Transformers any more. Pete, I agree with almost everything you say here, but I will disagree with this statement, only for what I saw out of the designers for Transformers Animated. I'm aware the designs were really polarizing (and obviously not nearly as complex as a lot of shows/toys), but that whole activity was really a labor of love for Derrick Wyatt and his guys, which I thought was pretty clear in not only the designs but the enthusiasm they showed for the show and line. A small point, but it was a major one for me, in that it's partially what made me really enjoy TFA, something I hadn't done at all since Beast Wars. Edited November 7, 2009 by hutch
chen Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) Well I think Transformers has suffered from the Gundam syndrome in that it reboots every 2-3 years and starts all over with a new series and thus new toys and basically tosses out what happened before. There are constants like G1 that will always be represented but other than MP's they get turned into a sales gimmick like the Classics line just to appease old fans while trying to attract new ones. Basically nowadays the only Transformers I'll pick up are MP's and thoughtfully designed homages to G1 like THS-02. I can't stand the Movie versions and personally think the movies sucked (the only saving grace was Peter Cullen) but since the movies did generate over a billion dollars I don't see Takara/Hasbro letting go of that cash cow. I'm just hoping the next Transformers tv series takes a page from G1 in that it retells it while keeping the scope and having animation quality on par with Gundam or Macross but I have a feeling it will be a watered down version inspired by the movies, argh we're gonna get a animate Shia Ladouche. Edited November 7, 2009 by chen
VFTF1 Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) Re: TF & Gundam Syndrome: Show-wise...yes. However - there's one big difference in Gundam's favor IMO. Namely, the models are so kick ass that no matter how bad the shows are or get, so long as Bandai keeps advancing it's modeling technology and the actual mecha are well designed - Gundam will remain exciting and viable. I say this as someone who has major problems finding a Gundam show he likes, but has no problems building Gundams from all the various universes and being totally in awe of them - from MSG to Wing to SEED - whatever. I'm now waiting with bated breath on the Blue Frame Astrea. Transformers, on the other hand - does not seem to be offering progressively better toys. I mean - seriously - look at the movie line. It's like the designs and execution gets worse and worse. Heck - I swallowed the movie designs partially because I started imaging how they'd look as toys and thought "wow - that's going to be a radically complex toy - cool." Instead, all the complexity just ends up a MOLD on an otherwise routine blocky piece. Like - look at the movie line - it's all fake. Bumblebee's license plate ends up on his torso... but it's just PAINTED on there. Bad bad bad. It would have been wicked if they figured out a way to GET IT THERE via transformation. Bonecrusher - hello - AWESOME menacing imposing dude is just a deluxe sized piece of crap with all the technological zig-zaggy details moulded on to otherwise blocky pieces. This is why the toys suck so bad - because all of the innovative design parameters are moulded on. I understand this in a LEGENDS CLASS toy... but... in larger toys..come on. COP OUT. Pete TF Gloom and Doom profit..no...wait...PROPHET heh heh... Edited November 7, 2009 by VFTF1
chen Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 I think it's a matter of marketing and how Hasbro see's Transformers as a franchise which is basically a toy line for children. While Takara notices that there are fans of all ages, Hasbro will re-issue the odd old school G1 toy or have a version of a MP but it's mostly just following Takara's lead which in all honesty we all know Takara does most of the heavy lifting when it comes to Transformers. Hasbro would never in a hundred years have released MP Prime if Takara hadn't of done it first and done most of the engineering. The Alternity and MP lines do show that there is a market for high quality, well engineered Transformers that fans are willing to pay a premium for but for the most part these are Japanese market products. Personally I think other than the high end stuff, most Transformers are rushed through development (especially the movie stuff) so to cash in on the movie craze while it's still fresh in peoples mind, once the initial "hotness" is over is when they roll out the color variants, and the odd tweak to the mold, and finally it's the gift packs. I'm sure if Hasbro wanted to they could create a 12" tall, diecast, movie accurate Prime that would cost a $150+ but the fact that they consider Transformers a mostly kids toy line they would never invest the level of detail and engineering needed to pull it off.
VFTF1 Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 Well -I might be wrong, but wasn't Alternators a complete financial flop in the USA? I heard Hasbro was very upset with how those sold, and that they did indeed sell badly. I'm guessing it was because kids found them overly complex and easily breakable (no fun) while adults couldn't really be assed about them... In that sense, it's not Hasbro's 'fault' - it's just the way the market in the states is... Which leads to the question of WHY. Why is it that in Japan accurate scale models and figures are more popular than in the USA? With Europe it's hard to say what is popular and what isn't because taxes like VAT totally distort everything IMO. There would be a lot more products potentially offered in higher quantities if not for the burgeoning costs of selling anything... so Europe usually offers a hodge podge of whatever people manage to import. This is even true for big brand names like Transformers, because Hasbro UK doesn't usually offer EVERYTHING that appears on the US market, but is more sellective... Pete
chen Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 I think Alternators (not Alternity that I was talking about) was less the sales success that Hasbro wanted was because they changed the figures from diecast to plastic. They lost the high-end market which was adults who instead just bought the Japanese version which was easily available from Ebay or any online stores. Also there were huge gaps between releases, which really wasn't Hasbro fault since Takara was the one designing these and it died a slow death when they became all plastic. But they are reborn in a way through the new Alternity line which seems to be doing well. As for the whole Japanese versus North America thing I personally think it's just a culture thing. Reading Manga or watching Anime is perfectly acceptable for either a 10 year old or a 50 year old since they cater to pretty much every age, every demographic, and any personal preference. In a way they just take that whole industry more seriously and thus demand higher quality tie-ins like toys, games, models etc. It seems in North America once you reach a certain age your suppose to stop reading comics, stop watching cartoons and become a "adult", raise a family and work 9 to 5. It's slowly changing but unlike Japan toys, comics, all that stuff is still a subculture and not yet 100% mainstream.
David Hingtgen Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 I thought Alternators didn't sell well due to the HUGE gap between the early releases, and the fact that after the first couple---they all seemed the same. There were really only 2 or 3 basic designs, just different body panels. Plus the frankly frustrating transformations---so many parts that Z-folded in just 2 or 3mm, with hinges so tight you couldn't imagine they were supposed to move, combined with parts that LOOKED hinged that weren't, or parts that moved that weren't supposed to due to loose tolerances. It really didn't help that Hasbro simplified the instructions, which was most evident and "really made it harder than necessary" with Smokescreen/Bluestreak. I've compared the US and JP instructions---the JP ones have more steps---and they help! Hasbro actually eliminates a few, and they often are "little" ones that show exactly where that little 3mm Z-fold goes and what it does. Hasbro just says "move the arm over here" while the Takara ones show "unlatch this, fold that over there, THEN there's room to move the arm over there, if it's rotated 180 degrees first, then again afterwards".
Metal_Massacre_79 Posted November 8, 2009 Posted November 8, 2009 If the Alternators line was such a flop, why were they so hard to find once they were released (regardless of how long it took them to release each one)? Even if the Ebay whores went and grabbed them all it would still reflect positively on the sales books for Hasbro and whatever stores were stocking them. I'm still of the opinion that the Binaltech/Alternators line was the best Transformers line ever created, and I got damn near all of them. It was basically an MP at the $20-25 price range, which is perfect for people who didn't have loads on money.
VFTF1 Posted November 8, 2009 Posted November 8, 2009 The problem with Alternators is that they stopped taking advantage of the format. What possible reason was there for Mustang Grimlock or Pick up Truck Prime (beyond possibly retaining TMs to the names?) Come on. They should have made Stunticons (beyond that lame Dragstrip), and they should have made the pick up black and called it Trailbreaker. It's not like the G1 line doesn't offer ample material to work with. They dropped the ball when they started making random characters like Rumble and Prime into cars. Pete
chen Posted November 8, 2009 Posted November 8, 2009 It had a pretty good start but I think near the end it started to lose it's way, also I'm only guessing but I think getting licenses for different car designs were getting harder which could have been why characters that weren't cars in G1 became one in the Alternators line (there's just something wrong about Grimlock being a Mustang) and the same design for multiple characters (besides costs). Still they did have some very nice figures like Jazz, Hotrod/Mirage, Smokescreen/Silverstreak, but I think ultimately the cost to make these toys were just too high either due to tooling or licensing costs or whatever and the market wasn't there anymore.
RD Blade Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 Alt/BT was my second favorite line just below MP. They were like the epitome of Classics before Classics existed.
mikeszekely Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 Alt/BT was my second favorite line just below MP. They were like the epitome of Classics before Classics existed. Sure, if they all (Autobots and Decepticons alike) transformed into a Mustang, a Scion xB, an Impreza, and RX8, or an S2000. They were great in concept. They just didn't have enough models.
RD Blade Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 There were enough molds to make it a full line. Problem was there were too many repaints. It feels strange to say that since I own several valks, which have more repaints per mold than any line I know of.
hutch Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 There were enough molds to make it a full line. Problem was there were too many repaints. It feels strange to say that since I own several valks, which have more repaints per mold than any line I know of. But Autobots and Decepticons are each supposed to be an individual sentient life forms. I'd find it odd that like 3 Autobots and 2 Decepticons would choose the same form. And yes, I of course make an exception for Sunstreaker and Sideswipe. Valks are just planes that people fly, in essence. Having a ton of those would make sense.
RD Blade Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 Totally understand where you're coming from. But I was looking at them as toy lines... without the complications that come with story & characters. And in that sense, Alt/BT has a much broader line-up than Yamato's Macross and doesn't sacrifice much in the way of complexity or quality at the end of the day.
mikeszekely Posted November 9, 2009 Posted November 9, 2009 I wasn't going to do it... I know that Hasbro had increased prices across the board on TFs, but I'd only paid $50 for Starscream (and he ended up with a busted wing). And yet, when I saw Skywarp staring at me from his endcap... Bring on US MP Grimlock. Poor Prime's a little outnumbered, facing Megatron and two out of three Seekers alone. Even if one of them does have a busted wing...
Alpha OTS Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 The problem with Alternators is that they stopped taking advantage of the format. What possible reason was there for Mustang Grimlock or Pick up Truck Prime (beyond possibly retaining TMs to the names?) Come on. They should have made Stunticons (beyond that lame Dragstrip), and they should have made the pick up black and called it Trailbreaker. It's not like the G1 line doesn't offer ample material to work with. Although it does look cool in vehicle mode, the pick up truck is not a good mold. What does help make it at least ok is that Fans Project(think it was them) upgrade kit that came out over a year ago that had a gas can that transformed into Prime's gun, and a removeable(although pretty small) matrix to put inside his chest. I was always hoping for a green with orange details repaint of Prime which would have made for a decent Hoist, since at that point in the line, hoping for any remolding was a lost cause. They dropped the ball when they started making random characters like Rumble and Prime into cars. Pete I thought they kind of salvaged themselves a bit at the end with Rumble and Ravage. Definitely not great molds, but they looked tons better than Prime did, and were much more appropriately done homages. If Rumble would have had some transformation in his arms to let them alternate between piledrivers and regular arms, he would have been one of the best figures in the line. I'm dissappointed with that leader SS video. I think the voyager looks better.
VFTF1 Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 Hm. I feel myself evolving now beyond even being dissapointed at TFs and towards the realm of...not caring one way or another There's SO much cool anime out there and cool stuff coming in 2010 - why even be concerned where this franchise goes anymore? Pete
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