HG and Robotech Debates

[Gubaba]

Hope he's being sarcastic??

Taksraven

That too.

[Freiflug88]

They do have their own designations, but "Valkyrie" is always used as shorthand for all VFs in Macross. So yeah, the VF-17 is still a "Valkyrie."

Forgive my newbie ignorance but is this not the Harmony Gold and Robotech section of the forum? Despite the love people here may have for Macross this is the place to discuss Robotech and as such I believe the term is Veritech and not Valkyrie.

VF is shorthand for Variable Fighter in Macross and Veritech Fighter in Robotech. The only "Valkyries" are the VF-1 Valkyrie and the VF-2SS Valkyrie II, but many Macross fans just get in the habit of referring to all the "VFs" as Valkyries.

Edited October 23, 2009 by Freiflug88

[shiroikaze]

VF is shorthand for Variable Fighter in Macross and Veritech Fighter in Robotech. The only "Valkyries" are the VF-1 Valkyrie and the VF-2SS Valkyrie II, but many Macross fans just get in the habit of referring to all the "VFs" as Valkyries.

Actually (I had to check for this), Alto in the second episode of Frontier referred to the VF-25 as a "Valkyrie".

Edited October 24, 2009 by shiroikaze

[Gubaba]

VF is shorthand for Variable Fighter in Macross and Veritech Fighter in Robotech. The only "Valkyries" are the VF-1 Valkyrie and the VF-2SS Valkyrie II, but many Macross fans just get in the habit of referring to all the "VFs" as Valkyries.

So...the Fire Valkyrie, Blazer Valkyrie, and Messiah Valkyrie don't count...?

Not only Macross fans, but Macross CHARACTERS call them all "Valkyries."

[Freiflug88]

Actually (I had to check for this), Alto in the second episode of Frontier referred to the VF-25 as a "Valkyrie".

I will have to check out that out when I finish redownloading the Macross Frontier that were wiped from my HD.

Did you hear actually hear Alto say "Valkyrie" or is just what the fansubber typed up? Cause I remember some early fansubs of Ep 25 had Klain saying to Alto "Here is your Valkyrie" while later revised fansubs stated "Here is your Fighter."

[Capt Christopher Donovan]

No. Although other VFs have their own designations, "Valkyrie" can apply to VFs in general, especially after the introduction of the VF-1 Valkyrie.

Depends on which series we're talking about. The AF-49 was a design based on the VA-X-3. The AF-49 is for Air Cavalary Chronicles while the VA-X-3 is for Advanced Valkyrie.

http://mahq.net/mecha/macross/aircavalry/af-49.htm

http://mahq.net/mecha/macross/advvalk/va-x-3.htm

Thanks for the info...

[Seto Kaiba]

Writers sometimes incorporate far more into their work than even THEY know.

Isn't this just a fairly weak justification for "I want to believe it, therefore it's true"?

That propulsion system still has to push some 18 million+ mt of ship...you aren't going to do that with some ion thruster. And a pulse rocket is going to HAVE to have much bigger engines.

Again... ALIEN TECHNOLOGY.

Not to split further hairs, but isn't Valkyrie only applicable to the original F-14 inspired fighters? The latter mecha have their own designations ("Invader", "Nightmare", etc).

It's one of those specific terms that passed into general usage to describe a whole family of things. Kind of like how most people refer to generic tissues as Kleenex. Originally the term "Valkyrie" only applied to the VF-1 Valkyrie, VF-1R Valkyrie Kai, VF-2 Valkyrie II, and VF-2SS Valkyrie II but it sort of became the common term for a variable fighter along the way.

the other site that has this designates it the AF-49...does anyone know which is the correct designation?

Both, actually. When Kawamori originally drew the concept for his Advanced Valkyrie design series, he called it the VA-X-3. When he later built on the design for his Air Cavalry Chronicles series, he called it the AF-49 (since Air Cavalry Chronicles is not strictly Macross, but just him dicking around with new design ideas).

Forgive my newbie ignorance but is this not the Harmony Gold and Robotech section of the forum? Despite the love people here may have for Macross this is the place to discuss Robotech and as such I believe the term is Veritech and not Valkyrie.

Um, no.

[Capt Christopher Donovan]

Is this a Robotech RPG...? No offense, but's considered bad form to take from Macross to plump out Robotech. It's not as bad as, say, taking Macross Zero clips and adding "My Time to Be a Star" over it, but still...it's frowned upon by most fans, Macross and Robotech alike.

Borrowing a bit from Macross, Battletech AND Robotech (prime storyline) plus a bit of my own invention (some new ships, new alien races, etc). Since it's purely for the enjoyment of myself/my game group and not going to be published I don't see why anyone else should care one way or the other.

[taksraven]

C'mon guys, we all know that this is the only true Valkyrie....

Taksraven

Edited October 24, 2009 by taksraven

[shiroikaze]

I will have to check out that out when I finish redownloading the Macross Frontier that were wiped from my HD.

Did you hear actually hear Alto say "Valkyrie" or is just what the fansubber typed up? Cause I remember some early fansubs of Ep 25 had Klain saying to Alto "Here is your Valkyrie" while later revised fansubs stated "Here is your Fighter."

Yeah, I did hear him say "Valkyrie". It was after when Ozma first brought him into the SMS HQ, he said "ore wa VALKYRIE ni noserou!" to Ozma right after when everyone scrambled to fend off another Vajra attack.

[Seto Kaiba]

Borrowing a bit from Macross, Battletech AND Robotech (prime storyline) plus a bit of my own invention (some new ships, new alien races, etc). Since it's purely for the enjoyment of myself/my game group and not going to be published I don't see why anyone else should care one way or the other.

Eh... most Macross fans take a dim view of people trying to pillage material from Macross and other shows to beef up the Robotech universe... the reason why should be fairly obvious. That it happens a lot certainly does nothing to improve people's opinions of such behavior.

[Seto Kaiba]

Ah, I've received another wonderful private message from our mutual friend Pizza the Hutt / Ghost Maker. It seems he really has deluded himself into thinking we care what name he's supposedly lurking under over here. This guy really is a sterling example of the sort of fans who've given Robotech such a dire reputation. He openly professes to not be a Macross fan, yet he claims he's been lurking and posting here pretending to be one for months just to spy on us, as though what we did here was some clandestine operation.

Ha,You tell me to stop being an "apeface" but you continue to excell at it at mw and RtX and you think no one really listens to Memo and Mav?,well lurking in mw chats I heard mw fans are getting tired of your endless tantrums you throw over there and you are starting to be ignored as well.And I made who I was so long ago and still frequently post there.It is so obvious who I am and yet you and those pathatic excuses for moderators there ( they are pathetic because they enjoy the insults to Robotech fans because they do nothing,that is why I would never be a macross fan,becaause I cannot lower myself to stupid insults as they do) cannot figure it out.I will wait a while longer to make you go nuts guessing who I am there.And that family insult was a example of you and it has to be true that your parents are apefaces,otherwise why are you an apeface? And you an apeface because you cannot prove your case to Memo and fans either so you go in circles with rants and say "no macross in future Robotech".obsurd you are

[Capt Christopher Donovan]

Isn't this just a fairly weak justification for "I want to believe it, therefore it's true"?

No, it's a recognition that readers often find things that resonate with them in a work that aren't strictly what the author himself consciously put it. That doen't make them invalid, just not necessarily intended.

It's one of those specific terms that passed into general usage to describe a whole family of things. Kind of like how most people refer to generic tissues as Kleenex. Originally the term "Valkyrie" only applied to the VF-1 Valkyrie, VF-1R Valkyrie Kai, VF-2 Valkyrie II, and VF-2SS Valkyrie II but it sort of became the common term for a variable fighter along the way.

Both, actually. When Kawamori originally drew the concept for his Advanced Valkyrie design series, he called it the VA-X-3. When he later built on the design for his Air Cavalry Chronicles series, he called it the AF-49 (since Air Cavalry Chronicles is not strictly Macross, but just him dicking around with new design ideas).

Thanks for the info.

[Gubaba]

Ah, I've received another wonderful private message from our mutual friend Pizza the Hutt / Ghost Maker. It seems he really has deluded himself into thinking we care what name he's supposedly lurking under over here. This guy really is a sterling example of the sort of fans who've given Robotech such a dire reputation. He openly professes to not be a Macross fan, yet he claims he's been lurking and posting here pretending to be one for months just to spy on us, as though what we did here was some clandestine operation.

You'd think he'd be smart enough to learn that none of the threads here are private, and can be viewed by anyone, whether logged in or not.

But if his life is empty enough that he has to make it interesting by pretending to be some kind of superspy crossing enemy lines, who are we to deny him his pleasure?

[Jasonc]

Ha,You tell me to stop being an "apeface" but you continue to excell at it at mw and RtX and you think no one really listens to Memo and Mav?,well lurking in mw chats I heard mw fans are getting tired of your endless tantrums you throw over there and you are starting to be ignored as well.And I made who I was so long ago and still frequently post there.It is so obvious who I am and yet you and those pathatic excuses for moderators there ( they are pathetic because they enjoy the insults to Robotech fans because they do nothing,that is why I would never be a macross fan,becaause I cannot lower myself to stupid insults as they do) cannot figure it out.I will wait a while longer to make you go nuts guessing who I am there.And that family insult was a example of you and it has to be true that your parents are apefaces,otherwise why are you an apeface? And you an apeface because you cannot prove your case to Memo and fans either so you go in circles with rants and say "no macross in future Robotech".obsurd you are

Are you serious??? First off, it's pretty obvious you're dealing with a moron. I think his spelling and grade level of writing is about the degree of second grade, at best. "And that family insult was a example of you and it has to be true that your parents are apefaces,otherwise why are you an apeface? And you an apeface because you cannot prove your case to Memo and fans either so you go in circles with rants and say "no macross in future Robotech".obsurd you are"

WTF??? Then he says he's not a Macross fan because he can't lower himself to stupid insults??? Um, what was the first and second message all about again??? Memo, if you are reading on here, you might want to tell your buddy that he's making RT fans look really bad. Not that I expect anything to be done with uneducated saps like PTH, but I think he just degraded and invalidated himself. A walking, talking contradiction with no identity, so he blindly follows others. Perhaps I should feel sorry for him. There maybe special schools or a specialist he can see to fix that little problem. It's a good thing I know good, well to do people who like Robotech, otherwise, I'd think they were all like this guy.

[Freiflug88]

So...the Fire Valkyrie, Blazer Valkyrie, and Messiah Valkyrie don't count...?

Not only Macross fans, but Macross CHARACTERS call them all "Valkyries."

They do count. Its just that a lot of little details about the Vast Fictional Universe of Macross often slip my mind.

C'mon guys, we all know that this is the only true Valkyrie....

Taksraven

So the USAF had been designing Valkyrie's to fight off the Zentradi as early as the late 50s. So Macross and Robotech must both be a lie! The ASS-1 didn't crash in 1999, it crashed back in 1947 in Roswell!

Yeah, I did hear him say "Valkyrie". It was after when Ozma first brought him into the SMS HQ, he said "ore wa VALKYRIE ni noserou!" to Ozma right after when everyone scrambled to fend off another Vajra attack.

Ah I remember now its Alto's "let me go out and fight as well with you guys" moment before Ozma punches him in the face and kicks him out of SMS HQ.

[Gubaba]

Are you serious??? First off, it's pretty obvious you're dealing with a moron. I think his spelling and grade level of writing is about the degree of second grade, at best. "And that family insult was a example of you and it has to be true that your parents are apefaces,otherwise why are you an apeface? And you an apeface because you cannot prove your case to Memo and fans either so you go in circles with rants and say "no macross in future Robotech".obsurd you are"

WTF??? Then he says he's not a Macross fan because he can't lower himself to stupid insults??? Um, what was the first and second message all about again??? Memo, if you are reading on here, you might want to tell your buddy that he's making RT fans look really bad. Not that I expect anything to be done with uneducated saps like PTH, but I think he just degraded and invalidated himself. A walking, talking contradiction with no identity, so he blindly follows others. Perhaps I should feel sorry for him. There maybe special schools or a specialist he can see to fix that little problem. It's a good thing I know good, well to do people who like Robotech, otherwise, I'd think they were all like this guy.

Yeah...I'm beginning to stop laughing at him and starting to feel pity. He seems like a deluded kid who's mistaken our shaking our heads at his childish antics for some kind of...I dunno, fame? Infamy?

Anyway, it's kind of sad.

[Einherjar]

Borrowing a bit from Macross, Battletech AND Robotech (prime storyline) plus a bit of my own invention (some new ships, new alien races, etc). Since it's purely for the enjoyment of myself/my game group and not going to be published I don't see why anyone else should care one way or the other.

People have been doing that long before you. Honestly, it's kind of insulting.

http://www.geocities.com/spiffy5181/veritechindex.html

[Seto Kaiba]

No, it's a recognition that readers often find things that resonate with them in a work that aren't strictly what the author himself consciously put it. That doen't make them invalid, just not necessarily intended.

Eh, isn't that still the same as saying that you're projecting your desire for sophisticated themes that weren't part of the author's intent onto the show?

But if his life is empty enough that he has to make it interesting by pretending to be some kind of superspy crossing enemy lines, who are we to deny him his pleasure?

People with a good, firm grip on reality who find his behavior genuinely obnoxious?

Of course, one could make a good case for other Robotech fans stepping up to stop him on the grounds that he's giving Robotech an even worse reputation than it already has, and damaging their credibility by association.

Are you serious??? First off, it's pretty obvious you're dealing with a moron.

Well yeah... that much was obvious from the beginning. We ARE talking about someone who actually believes that load of tripe MEMO thinks is a cogent argument in favor of Harmony Gold having full rights to Macross.

I think his spelling and grade level of writing is about the degree of second grade, at best.

It'd be a lot easier to take him seriously if he took the time to fix his spelling and grammar. The quality of his writing seems to be directly proportional to how angry his is, and since he seems to always be about an inch from raging so hard that he vomits blood, he usually writes like a goddamn loon.

It's a good thing I know good, well to do people who like Robotech, otherwise, I'd think they were all like this guy.

Unfortunately for the few decent Robotech fans left, MEMO1DOMINION and Maverick_LSC seem to find the behavior Pizza has been displaying a desirable trait in the fanbase. They've been steadily eliminating the decent contributors over the past few months. Give it a year, two at the outside, and people like Pizza the Hutt will be all that's left over on RT.com. It'll be the next RDF HQ/DoZ message board... a hiding place for a few frothy-mouthed fanatics to howl their outrage at the rest of us in relative obscurity.

[Seto Kaiba]

People have been doing that long before you. Honestly, it's kind of insulting.

http://www.geocities.com/spiffy5181/veritechindex.html

Get a good look now, that site's being deleted in a few days when Yahoo! closes Geocities permanently.

Every time I see that site, I have the uncontrollable urge to vomit. It's offensive enough that the authors are pilfering stuff from Macross's main timeline for Robotech, they're freely mixing it with stuff from the Macross alternate universe continuity, Gundam, and a bunch of other shows.

Edited October 24, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Einherjar]

Get a good look now, that site's being deleted in a few days when Yahoo! closes Geocities permanently.

I heard all of the Robotech Geocities websites in existence are going to be preserved at robotechx.com.

Eh, isn't that still the same as saying that you're projecting your desire for sophisticated themes that weren't part of the author's intent onto the show?

Isn't it times two for this situation; viewer to the author to the real author(s)? Robotech thrives on being subjective these days. You can explain your way around so many things that doesn't make sense, just like they did since the 80s.

Edited October 24, 2009 by Einherjar

[Beltane70]

The thing that made me laugh over at RT.com was that Pizza got in trouble with MEMO over something that he said to me.

One last thing to Beltane70,

You said somewhere else:

Eh, I'm not too worried about being banned, even though it is kind of fun being able to witness the site as it continues its downward spiral.

Could it be that you made a bland and flat reply to the topic because seeing you is a macross fan the idea of Carl doing something for Robotech to salute the 25th anniversary would give Robotech such a nice BANG that it would do a great thing for HG and Robotech and sending you macross fans *facepalming* themselves because mw fans been saying all those months that Robotech is spiraling to a crash of death and if HG made a nice thing happen next year macross fans would need new material to insult us Robotech fans because they were proven wrong (again) that Robotech is live and well.

Why would I even care if HG actually does get a new Robotech feature released. If I get proven wrong, so what? I'm wrong more times than I'm right, so it would just be another drop in the bucket. I don't lose anything and my enjoyment of Macross won't be diminished at all.

I guess I owe you an apology Seto, seeing that it's me that has apparently set Pizza off on you!

Edited October 24, 2009 by Beltane70

[Seto Kaiba]

I heard all of the Robotech Geocities websites in existence are going to be preserved at robotechx.com.

Yeah, they've made noises about wanting to do it, but it's highly doubtful that they'll actually get their act together in time to save any of those sites.

Isn't it times two for this situation; viewer to the author to the real author(s)? Robotech thrives on being subjective these days. You can explain your way around so many things that doesn't make sense, just like they did since the 80s.

Hell, attempting to explain away all of inconsistencies, plot holes, and stuff that just doesn't make sense is one of the most popular Robotech fan projects. Harmony Gold's been making it work for them for years. Just look at their statements about what's canon... they deliberately worded it such that it throws the door open to all kinds of crazy theories about how all of the non-canon McKinney novels, comic books, and whatnot can still potentially fit into the universe so long as they don't conflict (much) with the so-called "original 85".

You want to talk about the cyclical nature of Robotech... look at its message boards. It's been nothing but the same tired, circular arguments over and over again, often with people presenting unfounded claims from past arguments as though they were facts in the new arguments on the same damn topics.

Why would I even care if HG actually does get a new Robotech feature released. If I get proven wrong, so what? I'm wrong more times than I'm right, so it would just be another drop in the bucket. I don't lose anything and my enjoyment of Macross won't be diminished at all.

It just goes to show how completely out of touch with reality Pizza really is. He's deluded himself into thinking that we give a damn whether or not Harmony Gold manages to squirt out another feeble movie in an attempt to make Robotech relevant to an industry and an audience that haven't given a damn about it in 23 years. He's not a complete idiot though, he's on the ball enough to fully appreciate that the only part of Robotech that actually matters to most of the fans is Macross, and that without Macross tie-ins any future Robotech productions will have little-to-no appeal for all but the most devoted of Robotech fans.

I guess I owe you an apology Seto, seeing that it's me that has apparently set Pizza off on you!

Eh, it's no biggie. I'm used to attracting the attention of the crazy ones. I just wish that more of the crazy ones were cute women in their 20's like that one girl who kept trying to get me to look at Ishtar h-doujin and Feff x Nexx yaoi doujin she drew.

Edited October 24, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Beltane70]

When I saw your little private message from him, I was hoping that I got one, too. I would have reported him to rt.com, not that it would actually get acted upon.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Also, did anyone see this post:

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/10/awesom...ycle_helmet.php

Yeah its a response to this. I think he was just trying to get hits on his site.

Macross city was housed in the sdf by using pocket dimension technology generated by minmei sleeping with everyone.

oh wait this isn't RT.com.

I'd just say the buildings weren't the largest.

[Jasonc]

Have you guys heard the latest podcast on www.protoculturetimes.com ??? It's a shame that true fans of the franchise have to call out their own fan circle to puts things right. I find it very sad that Robotech fans can't enjoy the difference in opinion of legal interpretation without getting banned, or without being unjustly labled. I hope the true fans who simply like what they grew up with can just get along, and stop with the self-induced paranoia. It's one thing to try to incite a war with the Macross fans, something they have done very poorly with, but to start fighting amongst themselves is a tragedy. Something I haven't seen to that degree until now. JT put it in very good perspective on his podcast as how a true Robotech fan feels. Very good show, even if not a full podcast.

[VF5SS]

A lot of the Macross 7 VFs had alternate names such Stealth Valkyrie for the VF-17 and Blazer Valkyrie for the VF-19F/S and types. Basara's VF-19Kai is the FIRE Valkyrie. Characters in games and the shows have been using that term to stand for all VFs for a while. Also Battroid is sometimes used. The VF-0 and Sv-51 are the only fighters never referred to as Valkyries in their own show.

[taksraven]

"Death to the Macross Purists", eh.

I think that its a pretty poor expression that does not fit in with the traditional Robotech fandom naming conventions.

"Protoculture Heretics" is usually the sort of intelligent expression that they come up with.

I think that it only takes one thing to be a true Robotech fan in this day and age, and thats sheer bloody-mindedness.

Who cares that by staying with Robotech fandom all you have is one TV series (and a bastardised one at that), one aborted effort at a sequel series, another few snippets of footage from another aborted series, a clip addressing the UN and FINALLY a straight-to-DVD feature, oh, plus a lot of shiity comics.

Who cares that if you switch over to Macross fandom you get the original Macross series, Flashback 2012, Do You Remember Love, Macross II, Macross Plus, Macross Plus Movie Edition, Macross 7 in all its forms, Macross Zero, Macross Frontier, Macross Frontier movies, a heap of computer games, etc......

Better to stick with Robotech methinks, the way of the FUTURE!!!!!

Taksraven

[Gubaba]

"Death to the Macross Purists", eh.

I think that its a pretty poor expression that does not fit in with the traditional Robotech fandom naming conventions.

"Protoculture Heretics" is usually the sort of intelligent expression that they come up with.

I think that it only takes one thing to be a true Robotech fan in this day and age, and thats sheer bloody-mindedness.

Who cares that by staying with Robotech fandom all you have is one TV series (and a bastardised one at that), one aborted effort at a sequel series, another few snippets of footage from another aborted series, a clip addressing the UN and FINALLY a straight-to-DVD feature, oh, plus a lot of shiity comics.

Who cares that if you switch over to Macross fandom you get the original Macross series, Flashback 2012, Do You Remember Love, Macross II, Macross Plus, Macross Plus Movie Edition, Macross 7 in all its forms, Macross Zero, Macross Frontier, Macross Frontier movies, a heap of computer games, etc......

Better to stick with Robotech methinks, the way of the FUTURE!!!!!

Taksraven

Well...it's probably the closest thing to the way of the future if you're a Mospeada fan...I'm not sure why "Macross Saga" fans stick with it, though...

[areaseven]

Here's a debate related to RT:

Which of these will most likely come first?

a. Robotech: Shadow Rising

b. Robotech: The Live-Action Movie

c. Duke Nukem Forever

d. a Guns N' Roses reunion

e. Halley's Comet

[anime52k8]

Here's a debate related to RT:

Which of these will most likely come first?

a. Robotech: Shadow Rising

b. Robotech: The Live-Action Movie

c. Duke Nukem Forever

d. a Guns N' Roses reunion

e. Halley's Comet

[Beltane70]

Halley's Comet is also the only thing that's guaranteed to come.

[Freiflug88]

Macross city was housed in the sdf by using pocket dimension technology generated by minmei sleeping with everyone.

oh wait this isn't RT.com.

I'd just say the buildings weren't the largest.

Of course it was. None of you Macross Purists remember that hilarious scene with Roy Fokker and Minmei in Robotech?

Roy: "Y'know I'd like a little pussy."

Minmei: "Me too, mine's as big as a Zentradi!"

Roy:

Better to stick with Robotech methinks, the way of the FUTURE!!!!!

Taksraven

Robotech isn't just the way of the FUTURE. All Robotech fans know that The Future is NOW!

Here's a debate related to RT:

Which of these will most likely come first?

a. Robotech: Shadow Rising

b. Robotech: The Live-Action Movie

c. Duke Nukem Forever

d. a Guns N' Roses reunion

e. Halley's Comet

b. Robotech: The Live-Action Movie! It'll be awesome and look just like the Macross Saga! HG will use the SDF and DYRL merchandise rights they acquired lock stock N' Barrell from Japan to use stop motion special effects with Macross toys and figures! It will look just like Plan 9 from Outer Space, but who cares it has Tobey Mcquire as Rick Hunter!

[Seto Kaiba]

Have you guys heard the latest podcast on www.protoculturetimes.com ???

Yep.

It's a shame that true fans of the franchise have to call out their own fan circle to puts things right.

It's a bigger shame that nothing will come of it, except perhaps JT getting perma-banned as yet another "enemy of the true Robotech fans". They'll just see it as evidence that JT is a "Macross purist troll" and cook up an excuse to ban him like they have so many others.

It's one thing to try to incite a war with the Macross fans, something they have done very poorly with, but to start fighting amongst themselves is a tragedy.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it tragic... it's disgusting, to be sure, but it was probably inevitable.

Let's be honest here... the Robotech fanbase has been tearing itself apart for the better part of two decades. What we're witnessing here is just the latest in a long series of internal feuds where the Robotech purists (fans who think the "original 85" is the one true Robotech) ostracize one or more of the other groups in the fandom, and eventually brand them with a label and hound them off of Robotech.com. First to go were the fans of the novels (McKinneyists), then the fans of the comics (Spanglerists), the fans who don't approve of what Tommy Yune has done to Robotech (the Macekists), and most recently the fans who like the Japanese originals too (Macross purists).

It seems like the only way that die-hard Robotech die-hards have come up with to express their fandom is to persecute anyone they think isn't a fan just like them.

Now that the Robotech purists have effectively banished everyone except themselves and labeled themselves the only "true fans", they have nobody else to turn on to prove their fan-ness. So, of course, they've turned on themselves with an old-fashioned witch hunt to root out anyone who doesn't think exactly like they do.

Of course, what drove the vast majority of Robotech fans away from the fanbase was the fact that Harmony Gold never produced a viable sequel in 20 years of trying. Simple frustration with a franchise that has been going nowhere for 25 years has driven away more fans than any other cause.

I think that it only takes one thing to be a true Robotech fan in this day and age, and thats sheer bloody-mindedness.

No kidding... it take a certain amount of bloody-minded determination (or maybe good old-fashioned denial) to follow a franchise that went nowhere and did nothing for 20 years, and produced a single sequel whose production quality would have been embarrassingly bad back in 2002 when we were getting Macross Zero.

Better to stick with Robotech methinks, the way of the FUTURE!!!!!

My god, the sarcasm is so thick on this sentence you could cut it into blocks.

Edited October 24, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Einherjar]

Well...it's probably the closest thing to the way of the future if you're a Mospeada fan...I'm not sure why "Macross Saga" fans stick with it, though...

Maybe the same reason people were really interested in Shadow Chronicles initially, Rick Hunter. Also, the faiths of all the other characters that haven't been killed off yet.

I wonder if a lot of fans would stick with the series once, or if, the unresolved Macross Saga material ever got concluded and move on from it. I know, very unlikely thinking right now with the live movie in progress bringing everything back to square one. They're definitely not done milking that part of the series yet, especially when they're willing to spend money to keep all related material regarding it under their control.

Edited October 24, 2009 by Einherjar