VFTF1 Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 No. Minmei was never the mother of the Zentradi or Tirolan races. According to Carl Macek himself, the Tirolans were found to be exactly like humans and had a modern civilization similar to humanity's when the SDF-1 crashed in 1999 when Rick Hunter and the SDF-3 found Tirol after being sucked through time. Hm. You know...in the original Macross, Fold technology is something that humans develop and learn about over the time span of multiple series and OVAs. The potential behind it is always there, but things are never rushed too quickly, and even though they technically could be, the focus of each consecutive story always establishes some limits. Nothing is ever "all out" - there's always something people 'still' don't know how to do. In Robotech, i basically sounds like after finding the Macross, Rick Hunter and friends can do anything - fold...time travel... you name it. Oddly enough, the only thing Rick Hunter can't do is move away from that black hole because that would risk incurring the wrath of BW and opening up a can of legal worms. Best just keep him there. Pete
Freiflug88 Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Hm. You know...in the original Macross, Fold technology is something that humans develop and learn about over the time span of multiple series and OVAs. The potential behind it is always there, but things are never rushed too quickly, and even though they technically could be, the focus of each consecutive story always establishes some limits. Nothing is ever "all out" - there's always something people 'still' don't know how to do. In Robotech, i basically sounds like after finding the Macross, Rick Hunter and friends can do anything - fold...time travel... you name it. Oddly enough, the only thing Rick Hunter can't do is move away from that black hole because that would risk incurring the wrath of BW and opening up a can of legal worms. Best just keep him there. Pete Well in Robotech, Rick Hunter and friends weren't trying to do time trave God, fate, destiny or whatever you want to call it pulled Rick Hunter and the SDF-3 back in time for them to play a critical role in the birth of Zor, Protoculture, and the SDF-1 and pretty such sets everything into endless loop. Kinda like BSG where apparently God's whole plan is to have Humans and Cyclons destroy and rebuild in cycles of war and peace across the galaxy for millions of years except that BSG ends with the cycle possibly being broken according to Gauis and 6. As for Rick Hunter and Minmay they are forever destined to be apart and play their roles in resolving and starting the conflicts of Robotech in an endless loop it seems.
Einherjar Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Oddly enough, the only thing Rick Hunter can't do is move away from that black hole because that would risk incurring the wrath of BW and opening up a can of legal worms. Best just keep him there. He also can't repel the forces of the most power entities of the universe; copyright infringement and Chapter 11 bankruptcy (it will happen).
Funkenstein Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 No wonder Sentinels was retconned. The entire thing is a stable time loop.
Jasonc Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 I wonder if they'll need to retcon the Shadow Chronicles??? Here's one of the bigger plot sink holes I usually see... If the Haydonites want the earth destroyed, as well as all the humans, why didn't they launch their own set of Neutron-S missiles at the earth as well as soon as the Invid left? Along those same lines, would you kill a bear by throwing pebbles at it, risking your life, or, would you use the giant .50 calibur rifle on your back?
Freiflug88 Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 I wonder if they'll need to retcon the Shadow Chronicles??? Here's one of the bigger plot sink holes I usually see... If the Haydonites want the earth destroyed, as well as all the humans, why didn't they launch their own set of Neutron-S missiles at the earth as well as soon as the Invid left? Along those same lines, would you kill a bear by throwing pebbles at it, risking your life, or, would you use the giant .50 calibur rifle on your back? Well the Haydonites are supposed to be those shady villians that taunt their foes from the "Shadows." Funny how its the emotionless robots that enjoy toying with their foes instead of simply vaporizing with overwhelming and efficient force like the emotional Zentradi did.
Wanzerfan Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 VFTF1, for page 41... Thank you and screw you for making my eyes bleed (and, no, I'm definately not quoting that atrocious post). I hope that bodybuilder sits on you and farts.
Gubaba Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 VFTF1, for page 41... Thank you and screw you for making my eyes bleed (and, no, I'm definately not quoting that atrocious post). I hope that bodybuilder sits on you and farts. Little known fact: VFTF1 runs Harmony Gold. It's based in an underground fortress deep in the Andes Mountains.
Seto Kaiba Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) I wonder if they'll need to retcon the Shadow Chronicles??? Here's one of the bigger plot sink holes I usually see... If the Haydonites want the earth destroyed, as well as all the humans, why didn't they launch their own set of Neutron-S missiles at the earth as well as soon as the Invid left? Along those same lines, would you kill a bear by throwing pebbles at it, risking your life, or, would you use the giant .50 calibur rifle on your back? Because Harmony Gold's writers don't know how to write a compelling, or even mildly interesting, story. Most of what they've written is stilted, awkward, and boring, to such a degree that if they didn't obviously intend for the whole thing to be taken seriously, you'd think the whole plot was a deliberately campy parody. Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles is truly Plan 9 from Harmony Gold. Of course, one could also adopt the obvious answer that if the Haydonites acted with a modicum of common sense and just destroyed the REF forces and Earth on their own instead of engaging in elaborate shadow play (pun intended), they could've accomplished their goal quickly and easily, leaving the terminally-inept protagonists high and dry. That is, of course, not really the best of options to fit with Robotech, since Robotech is generally about humanity holding the moral and cultural high ground stomping out whole alien civilizations. Honestly, Robotech's United Earth Forces are exactly the sort of human-o-centric evil empire that most sci-fi stories have the protagonists fighting against, and when you view it in that light, McKinney's portrayal of the REF as being the (unintentional) root of all evils really is lulzy in the extreme. (and if they really ARE just adapting McKinney's EOTC stuff, doesn't that ultimately make the Haydonites the good guys, since they're trying to kill off the cause of all the suffering, oppression, and evil in the universe by destroying the stable time loop?) I could also be brutally frank and point out that the retcons which established the Haydonites as the current Big Bad are, first and foremost, a weak attempt to shift the blame for the narrowly-averted genocide in the last episode of the New Generation somewhere other than Rick Hunter, the darling of the die-hard fans. Edited October 6, 2009 by Seto Kaiba
BeyondTheGrave Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) So robotech is just one big Time Paradox? Little known fact: VFTF1 runs Harmony Gold. It's based in an underground fortress deep in the Andes Mountains. I thought it was the hidden backroom of the Chinese place out in Las Vegas? Edited October 6, 2009 by BeyondTheGrave
VFTF1 Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Because Harmony Gold's writers don't know how to write a compelling, or even mildly interesting, story. Most of what they've written is stilted, awkward, and boring, to such a degree that if they didn't obviously intend for the whole thing to be taken seriously, you'd think the whole plot was a deliberately campy parody. Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles is truly Plan 9 from Harmony Gold. Of course, one could also adopt the obvious answer that if the Haydonites acted with a modicum of common sense and just destroyed the REF forces and Earth on their own instead of engaging in elaborate shadow play (pun intended), they could've accomplished their goal quickly and easily, leaving the terminally-inept protagonists high and dry. That is, of course, not really the best of options to fit with Robotech, since Robotech is generally about humanity holding the moral and cultural high ground stomping out whole alien civilizations. Honestly, Robotech's United Earth Forces are exactly the sort of human-o-centric evil empire that most sci-fi stories have the protagonists fighting against, and when you view it in that light, McKinney's portrayal of the REF as being the (unintentional) root of all evils really is lulzy in the extreme. (and if they really ARE just adapting McKinney's EOTC stuff, doesn't that ultimately make the Haydonites the good guys, since they're trying to kill off the cause of all the suffering, oppression, and evil in the universe by destroying the stable time loop?) I could also be brutally frank and point out that the retcons which established the Haydonites as the current Big Bad are, first and foremost, a weak attempt to shift the blame for the narrowly-averted genocide in the last episode of the New Generation somewhere other than Rick Hunter, the darling of the die-hard fans Geez. That's too complicated for little old me. I prefer the idea that hot chicks in mini skirts sing while transforming airplanes fly around shooting things. Pete
Whamhammer Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 I wonder if they'll need to retcon the Shadow Chronicles??? Here's one of the bigger plot sink holes I usually see... If the Haydonites want the earth destroyed, as well as all the humans, why didn't they launch their own set of Neutron-S missiles at the earth as well as soon as the Invid left? Along those same lines, would you kill a bear by throwing pebbles at it, risking your life, or, would you use the giant .50 calibur rifle on your back? Only thing I can think is that the Haydonites wouldnt use the Neutron S's because it uses protoculture energy as a catalyst. They are capable of the knowledge and application of the energy but being that is so "stigmatic" they wont use it themselves, they helped the REF with it as a sort of irony "Protuculture addicts" destroying themselves by protoculure itself.
VFTF1 Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Haydonites can't use the protoculture powered weapons because they have no physical ability to kiss. Simple. Pete
Roy Focker Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Not sure if it was mentioned yet but you can now watch Robotech: The Macross and Masters Saga on Hulu or Youtube for free.
Einherjar Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) Only thing I can think is that the Haydonites wouldnt use the Neutron S's because it uses protoculture energy as a catalyst. They are capable of the knowledge and application of the energy but being that is so "stigmatic" they wont use it themselves, they helped the REF with it as a sort of irony "Protuculture addicts" destroying themselves by protoculure itself. They managed to BS the humans into working with them and use their defective stuff. Maybe their MO is to BS everyone, even the audience in a thin parody of someone else... They're habitual liars is what I'm trying to say. Edited October 6, 2009 by Einherjar
BeyondTheGrave Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 They managed to BS the humans into working with them and use their defective stuff. Maybe their MO is to BS everyone, even the audience in a thin parody of someone else... They're habitual liars is what I'm trying to say. That or they've taken the use of Hemp to a new level.
Seto Kaiba Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 They're habitual liars is what I'm trying to say. Secrets of Robotech revealed... the Haydonites are the author-insertion fantasy personas for the Harmony Gold marketing department.
Wanzerfan Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Little known fact: VFTF1 runs Harmony Gold. It's based in an underground fortress deep in the Andes Mountains. I thought it was based underground next to the Federation's base in Brazilia (Gundam referance here).
jenius Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Forget the massive plot holes. What really pisses me off about the Haydonites is their terrible character and mecha designs. Okay, so Robotech has never had a good alien character design (Zents = humans, Masters = humans, only invid we see = humans) but hell, even the MASTERS had decent bad guy mecha designs. The Haydonite designs look totally budget minded. "Make the easiest to recreate enemies possible... we can't afford to animate anything else."
Gubaba Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Forget the massive plot holes. What really pisses me off about the Haydonites is their terrible character and mecha designs. Okay, so Robotech has never had a good alien character design (Zents = humans, Masters = humans, only invid we see = humans) but hell, even the MASTERS had decent bad guy mecha designs. The Haydonite designs look totally budget minded. "Make the easiest to recreate enemies possible... we can't afford to animate anything else." Floating robot torsos with ragged cloaks aren't enough to inspire terror? My, my...aren't we hard to please...
Jasonc Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Forget the massive plot holes. What really pisses me off about the Haydonites is their terrible character and mecha designs. Okay, so Robotech has never had a good alien character design (Zents = humans, Masters = humans, only invid we see = humans) but hell, even the MASTERS had decent bad guy mecha designs. The Haydonite designs look totally budget minded. "Make the easiest to recreate enemies possible... we can't afford to animate anything else." One of the funniest parts of the movie is when Scott and the other guy encounter the Haydonite who was flying that flying metal ball sack. When they open fire on the Haydonite, you expect to see some monstrous body of an alien. Instead, when his robe comes off, it's just a head and shoulders. When I was at the HG screening of RTSC, I heard about 15 people laughing at that point. Damn those Korean animators!!! (J/K about that last sentence)
Funkenstein Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 One of the funniest parts of the movie is when Scott and the other guy encounter the Haydonite who was flying that flying metal ball sack. When they open fire on the Haydonite, you expect to see some monstrous body of an alien. Instead, when his robe comes off, it's just a head and shoulders. When I was at the HG screening of RTSC, I heard about 15 people laughing at that point. Damn those Korean animators!!! (J/K about that last sentence) Oh man, that must have been the plot twist right?
Einherjar Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Floating robot torsos with ragged cloaks aren't enough to inspire terror? My, my...aren't we hard to please... We've been through that phase already. It's a generic Sharon Apple.
Freiflug88 Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 Haydonites can't use the protoculture powered weapons because they have no physical ability to kiss. Simple. Pete Of course! KISS = PROTOCULTURE! I don't think its cause they have no physical ability to kiss. Its just the Haydonites were just plain stupid for giving the humans their one and only fembot and now there stuck in a sausage fest. Too bad those floating heads won't ever get a chance to hook up with the Sharon Apple box, just think of all the cute SEELE boxes they could have fathered!
Gubaba Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 We've been through that phase already. It's a generic Sharon Apple. Yes, but Sharon Apple was also a quarter-mile-tall naked redhead, so she wins.
Seto Kaiba Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 When they open fire on the Haydonite, you expect to see some monstrous body of an alien. Instead, when his robe comes off, it's just a head and shoulders. The budget was so low they couldn't afford to animate the rest of its body. I don't think its cause they have no physical ability to kiss. Its just the Haydonites were just plain stupid for giving the humans their one and only fembot and now there stuck in a sausage fest. As they're all robots, can't they just build another one?
Funkenstein Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 The budget was so low they couldn't afford to animate the rest of its body. As they're all robots, can't they just build another one? What kind of logic is that?
Freiflug88 Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 Yes, but Sharon Apple was also a quarter-mile-tall naked redhead, so she wins. Boy the SDF Macross was one very lucky guy! Until Isamu ruined their intimate moment and came crashing down on their heads. No wait, a second all ships are female! That poor girl must have been so lonely and desperate when Sharon came frolicking around in the nude in Plus. What with no SDF-2 to share the Lake with and all.
Freiflug88 Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 (edited) As they're all robots, can't they just build another one? Cause making a Janice II is exactly like making a SDF 2. You can apparently build one, but it will be completely invisible and sink into a lake while everyone debates if it ever really existed in the first place. Edited October 7, 2009 by Freiflug88
Wanzerfan Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 Yes, but Sharon Apple was also a quarter-mile-tall naked redhead, so she wins. If a freaking hologram can win, that is . Hey, maybe she can hook up with Voyager's Doctor .
Gubaba Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 If a freaking hologram can win, that is . Hey, maybe she can hook up with Voyager's Doctor . Who?
Wanzerfan Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 Who? The Doctor from Star Trek Voyager. I see you were lucky enough to miss that series. I guess I was too vague in my last post.
BeyondTheGrave Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 (edited) We've been through that phase already. It's a generic Sharon Apple. So why wasn't she in skimpy outfits enticing entire crews with her original songs? Oh wait... this is a HG production.. but still! @Gubaba In Star Trek Voyager they didn't have a real doctor just a Holographic emergency doctor. Edited October 7, 2009 by BeyondTheGrave
Lolicon Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 The Doctor was the only good character on Voyager.
Ghost Train Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 7/9 was a great character too.... though not necessarily for the acting.
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