HG and Robotech Debates

[Funkenstein]

Speaking of which, did Toynami ever get patent rights to the molds of the various Macross toys with their individual specific transformation styles that they've ripped off? I still say there's room for Bandai to ream them.

They cant be patented due to prior art, in the form of the 1/55 toys and the design artwork that Studio Nue/BW owns. Patents are marginally more difficult to get than trademarks because they are open to counter-claims using prior art.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Difference being, GEOREGE LUCAS CREATED FREAKIN' STAR WARS! HG did not create Macross, they own zero in the way of intellectual rights. Kawamori, Nue, BW can call the next series "Macross Macross Macross Macross" if they want, and it doesn't matter, because THEY OWN & CREATED MACROSS!

What you're describing is an event where say SW is released in the U.S. in '77, and let's for arguments sake say Tatsunoko decides they want to distribute it in Japan, goes through all the legal mumbo jumbo, and does so. Then immediately file's for trademarks on the name "SW" in as many countries as they can before Lucas/20th Century Fox get an opportunity to, and demands that they pay Tatsunoko money in every country that's not the U.S. that they try to release SW in.

Or hell, I'll do you one better, let's just say while all this was going on, Gene Roddenberry put a trademark on the word "Star" in every country including the U.S prior, and demands that EVERYONE pay him for putting the word "Star", and immedately demands royalties be paid for releasing SW, Stargate, Starship troopers, Starman, Star Search, The Next Foodnetwork Star, Star Force, Starburst, Tri-Star pictures..

Do you understand the point?

To put it simply, the name "Macross" isn't the same as the name "Macross Plus, Macross 7, Macross Dynamite 7, Macross Frontier, Macross Zero, Macross II." That's like saying anything with the name "NInja" in it can be suided because someone decided to trademark "Ninja Scroll." And while the name "Macross" is unique, it still doesn't belong to HG, since any burdon of proof regarding inception of the name would be against them.

I kinda get the point.

When looking at the site freiflug linked I noticed that M+ wasn't licensed/trademarked, and shown as its own individual title separate from Macross.

Question:

If one were to copyright/trademark the term "Veritech Fighter" would that screw over HG?

[Freiflug88]

What's legal and what's moral/ethical are two different things. Since HG nabbed the Macross trademark, they can legally claim a cut of the profits off, say, a US release of Macross Frontier. But is it right for them to claim monetary compensation for a series and intellectual property they had nothing to do with just because of a legal technicality? (Inadequate or outdated laws might be a better way of putting it.)

Isn't merchandising where most of the money is anyway? Refuse to buy products with the HG label (an easy thing to do since their crap is so shoddy anyway). The only thing I own with an HG label are my Animeigo Macross DVDs, bought when they first came out and before I knew how sleazy HG is.

To me, what HG is doing is akin to internet domain squatting. I'm no lawyer, but aren't there laws preventing that now?

Its not saintly, but its not the most unethical business decision to get compensation from an acquired trademark on a franchise they had nothing to do with. For one Harmony Gold would get money from the pockets of Macross consumers willing to pay a little extra on the purchasing price that covers the trademark fee and wouldn't be interfering with Big West's profits from licensing Macross to a distributor in the first place. HG trademark or not Big West would still make the same amount of money and Bandai's profits would just get hurt by the people unwilling to shell out an extra buck or two for HG trademarked Macross merchandise. Still at the end of day its profit with HG or not at all as far as the U.S. Market is considered.

Difference being, GEOREGE LUCAS CREATED FREAKIN' STAR WARS! HG did not create Macross, they own zero in the way of intellectual rights. Kawamori, Nue, BW can call the next series "Macross Macross Macross Macross" if they want, and it doesn't matter, because THEY OWN & CREATED MACROSS!

What you're describing is an event where say SW is released in the U.S. in '77, and let's for arguments sake say Tatsunoko decides they want to distribute it in Japan, goes through all the legal mumbo jumbo, and does so. Then immediately file's for trademarks on the name "SW" in as many countries as they can before Lucas/20th Century Fox get an opportunity to, and demands that they pay Tatsunoko money in every country that's not the U.S. that they try to release SW in.

Or hell, I'll do you one better, let's just say while all this was going on, Gene Roddenberry put a trademark on the word "Star" in every country including the U.S prior, and demands that EVERYONE pay him for putting the word "Star", and immedately demands royalties be paid for releasing SW, Stargate, Starship troopers, Starman, Star Search, The Next Foodnetwork Star, Star Force, Starburst, Tri-Star pictures..

Do you understand the point?

To put it simply, the name "Macross" isn't the same as the name "Macross Plus, Macross 7, Macross Dynamite 7, Macross Frontier, Macross Zero, Macross II." That's like saying anything with the name "NInja" in it can be suided because someone decided to trademark "Ninja Scroll." And while the name "Macross" is unique, it still doesn't belong to HG, since any burdon of proof regarding inception of the name would be against them.

Doesn't matter Trademarks and intellectual rights are two different things. The trademarked name "Macross" is unique and like it or not it does belong to HG because they trademarked it before Big West could. Rather the trademark owner is the intellectual property owner or not trademarks still have to be honored.

My point with the Star Wars example is that you can't always just add a number or a word to a pre-existing trademark and then claim it is your own.

[taksraven]

Palladium's tried a few times to merge the designs of the VF-1 and non-Macross mecha for the various editions of their Robotech RPG. The end result is usually too painful the look at, both because the design is hideous, and because the quality of the art is generally abysmal. I remember their "VF-1V Vindicator" (the horrible bastard offspring of a VF-1 and a AFC-01), and Harmony Gold's own attempts to give the Inbit/Invid a transforming fighter with a VF-1-esque transformation... the Invid Overlord.

Yeah, you've just gotta look at the canonical original Mospeada designs here mixed up with non-canonical to see that some people love to design crap....

Taksraven

[Bri]

Doesn't matter Trademarks and intellectual rights are two different things. The trademarked name "Macross" is unique and like it or not it does belong to HG because they trademarked it before Big West could. Rather the trademark owner is the intellectual property owner or not trademarks still have to be honored.

That's a very bold statement and not necessarily true. The Paris convention of the WIPO and the TRIPS agreement protect foreign brandnames from HG type hijacking. For example McDonalds won a court case based on article 6 of the Paris convention and article 16 of the TRIPS in South Africa where a local family restaurant had trademarked the name McDonalds. It gets even worse, if the trademark is found to be in bad faith the users are liable for the whole period of possesion.

The catch is that these cases are complex and expensive. The load of providing evidence lies with the foreign brandholder and Macross is probably not worth the effort.

[Seto Kaiba]

Are you 100% certain on that? I was pretty sure the courts ruled against BW (again, while defining what BW actually did have the rights to) and found in favor of Tatsunoko having certain rights. It was Tatsunoko having those rights that made BW give up on the whole Macross trademark issue and everything else and focus exclusively domestically.

Yes, I am. The courts most definitely shot down Tatsunoko's claims of having rights to Macross derivatives, and their attempt to claim ownership of the Macross "brand" as well. As such, Big West does not have to go through Tatsunoko for licensing of Macross derivatives, and they don't have to give them a cut of the profits either... thought they ARE obligated to share profits obtained from sales of the original series in the domestic (Japan) market.

The "certain rights" that the courts found Tatsunoko DID own were (specifically) those rights they had been given under the terms of their contract with Big West (namely, the international film distribution and merchandising rights, excluding Japan), and the economic rights to the footage of the Super Dimension Fortress Macross TV series (while at the same time making it perfectly clear that Tatsunoko's copyright on the footage did not extend to the copyrighted intellectual property created by Big West for the series).

Edited September 18, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[TheLoneWolf]

Speaking of courts, is anyone here familiar with navigating the Japanese Courts website?

http://www.courts.go.jp/

I'm looking for the court summary that was mentioned in the ANN article below. That article is thin on specifics and can easily be misinterpreted, so I'd like to see the actual court summary to know exactly what went down. I tried to search for the court summary on my own, but I don't know any case numbers, court names, etc. Any help would be very much appreciated.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2004-...macross-lawsuit

[Seto Kaiba]

Speaking of courts, is anyone here familiar with navigating the Japanese Courts website?

Actually, I'm pretty sure That's a report on Studio Nue's appeal of the 20 January 2003 court ruling (upheld by Tokyo High Court on 25 September 2003) where they established that Tatsunoko owned the economic rights to the footage, but that Big West's copyrights on the intellectual property were separate.

I'd look it up for myself, but the machine I'm currently using has no Eastern language support, so the text on the court webpage comes out as a stream of unreadable tokenized gibberish. I've got the text for the 2002 ruling bookmarked again, but I lost my bookmark for the 2003 ruling when my machine died... so if someone could dig it up for me, I'd really appreciate it. (if it helps, as I said, the ruling at district court level was dated 1/20/2003, and upheld by the high court on 9/25/2003).

EDIT: Yep, that's the report on the Supreme Court shooting down Studio Nue's appeal of the 2003 ruling.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Gubaba]

Speaking of courts, is anyone here familiar with navigating the Japanese Courts website?

http://www.courts.go.jp/

I'm looking for the court summary that was mentioned in the ANN article below. That article is thin on specifics and can easily be misinterpreted, so I'd like to see the actual court summary to know exactly what went down. I tried to search for the court summary on my own, but I don't know any case numbers, court names, etc. Any help would be very much appreciated.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2004-...macross-lawsuit

Here's the main one:

http://www.courts.go.jp/search/jhsp0030?ac...mp;hanreiKbn=06

[TheLoneWolf]

Thanks Gubaba. But I already have a copy of the 25 February 2002 court summary, I'm looking for the 2003 court ruling that Seto mentioned.

Seto, thanks for providing the date of the initial 2003 ruling, at this point any factual information is helpful.

You guys rock

[Gubaba]

Thanks Gubaba. But I already have a copy of the 25 February 2002 court summary, I'm looking for the 2003 court ruling that Seto mentioned.

Seto, thanks for providing the date of the initial 2003 ruling, at this point any factual information is helpful.

You guys rock

Hmmm...

Maybe it's this one?

http://www.courts.go.jp/search/jhsp0030?ac...mp;hanreiKbn=06

Or this one?

http://www.courts.go.jp/search/jhsp0030?ac...mp;hanreiKbn=06

Or this one?

http://www.courts.go.jp/search/jhsp0030?ac...mp;hanreiKbn=06

I'm getting all of this from the footnotes on Japanese Wikipedia discussing the lawsuit.

[Seto Kaiba]

Hmmm...

Maybe it's this one?

I'm getting all of this from the footnotes on Japanese Wikipedia discussing the lawsuit.

No, the dates are wrong, those are dated 1 July 2004, 27 October 2005, and 2 October 2002 respectively... the dates we're looking for are 20 January 2003 (平成15年01月20日) and 25 September 2003 (平成15年09月25日).

I'm just skimming these, but the first one seems to be one of Tatsunoko's rejected attempts to seek restitution from Big West and Bandai Visual for subsequently produced Macross shows, which the courts naturally shot down. The second is (apparently) Tatsunoko's appeal of the previously mentioned ruling (also rejected). The third is apparently Tatsunoko's appeal of the 2002 ruling (also rejected).

Edited September 18, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Einherjar]

Yeah, you've just gotta look at the canonical original Mospeada designs here mixed up with non-canonical to see that some people love to design crap....

Do all of the Enforcers on that page have breasts/nipples, maybe side boobs?

And an Invid Beta? Bet someone wanted that when the new New Generation toys were announced.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Einherjar

[Seto Kaiba]

Compiling the court documents we have into a simple, itemized list:

25 February 2002 Ruling (Studio Nue owns the 41 disputed designs)

http://www.courts.go.jp/search/jhsp0030?ac...mp;hanreiKbn=06

02 October 2002 Appeal (Tatsunoko's appeal of the above - rejected)

http://www.courts.go.jp/search/jhsp0030?ac...mp;hanreiKbn=06

20 January 2003 Ruling (Tatsunoko owns economic rights to Ep1-36) (Dug up for me by Talos)

http://www.courts.go.jp/search/jhsp0030?ac...mp;hanreiKbn=06

25 September 2003 Appeal (Studio Nue's appeal of the above - rejected)

http://www.courts.go.jp/search/jhsp0030?ac...mp;hanreiKbn=06

01 July 2004 Ruling (Tatsunoko's demand for restitution against Big West & Bandai - rejected)

http://www.courts.go.jp/search/jhsp0030?ac...mp;hanreiKbn=06

27 October 2005 Appeal (Tatsunoko's appeal of the above - rejected)

http://www.courts.go.jp/search/jhsp0030?ac...mp;hanreiKbn=06

Edited September 18, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Cowpeeler]

Difference being, GEOREGE LUCAS CREATED FREAKIN' STAR WARS!

That is not entirely true, the basic plot is lifted from the film "Kakushi-toride no san-akunin" that Kurosawa made in 1960. Most of the characters are in there, you have the two comic relief characters making up C3PO and R2D2, you have a general, representated later on in the form of Obi-wan, and the princess, naturally becoming Princess Leia.

And as much as I despise George Lucas, you have to admit his brilliance, as he knew that successful movies make successful toys, he added in his contract that he gets a percentage of all toy sales.

[eugimon]

That is not entirely true, the basic plot is lifted from the film "Kakushi-toride no san-akunin" that Kurosawa made in 1960. Most of the characters are in there, you have the two comic relief characters making up C3PO and R2D2, you have a general, representated later on in the form of Obi-wan, and the princess, naturally becoming Princess Leia.

And as much as I despise George Lucas, you have to admit his brilliance, as he knew that successful movies make successful toys, he added in his contract that he gets a percentage of all toy sales.

actually Lucas created that successful movies = successful toys paradigm.

[BeyondTheGrave]

actually Lucas created that successful movies = successful toys paradigm.

Idk. I'm going to dissagree with you on that one.

There are some successful movies out there with horrible unsuccessful toy lines.

[anime52k8]

Idk. I'm going to dissagree with you on that one.

There are some successful movies out there with horrible unsuccessful toy lines.

it's less a rule and more a marketing mentality, and star wars was the case where the mindset comes from.

[Freiflug88]

That's a very bold statement and not necessarily true. The Paris convention of the WIPO and the TRIPS agreement protect foreign brandnames from HG type hijacking. For example McDonalds won a court case based on article 6 of the Paris convention and article 16 of the TRIPS in South Africa where a local family restaurant had trademarked the name McDonalds. It gets even worse, if the trademark is found to be in bad faith the users are liable for the whole period of possesion.

The catch is that these cases are complex and expensive. The load of providing evidence lies with the foreign brandholder and Macross is probably not worth the effort.

McDonald's actually had the trademarks registered within South Africa from 1968 to 1985. George Sombonos, owner of a chain of 177 fast food restrautants, didn't even try to trademark McDonald's designs until 1993. The fact that McDonald's already had trademarks registered within South Africa, but that were just never used was mostly likely a major key to their victory. I also found no single mention of "Intellectual Property" in the entire transcript. How does this McDonald's case honestly support the notion that Big West is the rightful owner of "Macross" trademarks through intellectual property ownership?

McDonald's obtained registration of its trade marks in South Africa in 1968, 1974, 1979, 1980, 1984 and 1985. It is now the registered proprietor of fifty-two marks. Of these, twenty-seven consist of or incorporate the word "McDONALD" or "McDONALD'S". Also used is the letter "M" in the form of so-called golden arches, with or without the word "McDONALD'S". Others consist of the words BIG MAC, EGG McMUFFIN and McMUFFIN. There are also two clown devices. The trade marks are registered in respect of goods, mainly in classes 29 and 30, and for services in class 42.

When the present proceedings commenced, McDonald's had not traded in South Africa nor, we may assume for present purposes, had it used any of its trade marks here.

Joburgers Drive-Inn Restaurant (Pty) Limited ("Joburgers") is a South African company with its principal place of business in Johannesburg. Its managing director is Mr George Sombonos. Mr Sombonos has been engaged in the fast food industry since 1968. In 1979 he registered a company called Golden Fried Chicken (Pty) Limited ("Chicken Licken"). He holds 90% of the shares in the company and is its managing director. In 1979 Chicken Licken applied for the registration of a number of trade marks, including CHICKEN LICKEN. Since then it has franchised the Chicken Licken business so that today there are more than 177 stores throughout South Africa. Mr Sombonos says that Chicken Licken is the biggest fried chicken fast food franchise chain in the world not having its origins in the United States of America.

During 1992 Mr Sombonos on behalf of Joburgers decided to establish fast food outlets and restaurants using the trade marks McDONALD'S, BIG MAC and the golden arches design. In 1993 Mr Sombonos applied for the registration of these and some other McDonald's marks. At the same time he applied to the Registrar of Trade Marks in terms of Section 36(1)(a) and (b) of the Trade Marks Act, No. 62 of 1963 ("the old Act") for the expungement of the trade marks which are held by McDonald's. McDonald's opposed these applications and filed its counter-statements in the expungement applications during August 1993. During the same period McDonald's applied again for the registration of all the trade marks in its name.

[Keith]

That is not entirely true, the basic plot is lifted from the film "Kakushi-toride no san-akunin" that Kurosawa made in 1960. Most of the characters are in there, you have the two comic relief characters making up C3PO and R2D2, you have a general, representated later on in the form of Obi-wan, and the princess, naturally becoming Princess Leia.

And as much as I despise George Lucas, you have to admit his brilliance, as he knew that successful movies make successful toys, he added in his contract that he gets a percentage of all toy sales.

I've seen Hidden Fortress, own it too. Great movie, but not instantly recognizable as Star Wars. On the same token, I also own & Love Uchuu Senkan Yamato, & Gundam, but those aren't instantly recognizable as Macross either.

[MacrossCN]

Yes, I am. The courts most definitely shot down Tatsunoko's claims of having rights to...

These copyright promblms are VERY very very very... very COMPLEX!!!

I do not understand why can not Bigwest sell Macross Series (M7, MZ, MF...) in U.S.A, Euro...

= =

Edited September 18, 2009 by kresphy

[RedWolf]

These copyright promblms are VERY very very very... very COMPLEX!!!

I do not understand why can not Bigwest sell Macross Series (M7, MZ, MF...) in U.S.A, Euro...

= =

M7 - I think Bandai rationalized the expense involved. Music royalties of Victor Entertainment and Humming Bird.

MZ?

[Seto Kaiba]

These copyright promblms are VERY very very very... very COMPLEX!!!

I do not understand why can not Bigwest sell Macross Series (M7, MZ, MF...) in U.S.A, Euro...

Actually, they're not that difficult to understand at all. The concepts involved are fairly simple, it's just that any attempt to accurately explain how it all fits together turns into a small novel by the time you're done.

As to why Big West can't distribute Macross products in the west, that's actually not a direct result of the litigation at all... while Big West and Tatsunoko were fighting it out in the courts, Harmony Gold went and got a trademark on the name "Macross" in the US, Canada, UK, and Germany. So, in order for new Macross stuff to be released on those regions, the distributor who licensed the show would have to get permission from Harmony Gold to use that trademarked name. Big West apparently takes a dim view of that, so here we are. That's why we haven't had any more Macross releases since Macross Plus.

It's also been suggested that the music royalties for a heavily music-driven show like Macross 7 and/or Macross Frontier would also be an obstacle.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Whamhammer]

I'm not asking so that you'll convince me, I'm trying to understand what you see in Robotech.

So let me rephrase the question...why do YOU want to see a continuation? What kind of story would you like to see? What storytelling territory do you think must be covered?

Okay, I'll give this a shot.

Ill start with a little history to help out. When I first saw Robotech (summer of 85), the storyline had already been past the "Macross" portion of the story and was about a quarter way into the Robotech Masters and I followed it through to the end of New Generation, by the time the would cycle back to "the beginning" school started again (2:30 air time) and I wasnt able to see that portion till about a year or so later when the changed the timeslot to the a.m. before school. The "Battle Fortress" and Rick Hunter et al were just names . What I saw was the Robotech Masters attacking Earth trying to win technology from a ship wreckage that would help them to be able to rebuild thier power supplies before their enemy the Invid came to Earth to harvest the flower of Life which grew in the wreckage as a byproduct of the power source. They werent all that nice to the humans and we fought them to about a standstill and then the Invid came and crushed both weakened sides. The R.E.F sent waves of troops from the colonies and an expitionary force that was comming from deep space from an attempted confrontation with the Masters to kick the Invid off the planet, and you get the picture. I finally saw the Macross part, but it didnt excite me like it probably did those who saw it first. I really didnt like Ricks character all too much , I couldnt stand Minmei at all (her singing was so bad it left the Zentaedi wanted to run away in disgust! ), and I didnt like the looks of the Valks compared to the Alphas (to be fair, I prefer the looks of the F-15 over the F-14 that might have something to do with it), even though the non transforming guy with the two big guns looked pretty sweet. I thought it was okay for a beginning, but I remember really wanting to see the later stuff more. I had the large scale Gakken green Alpha and the large Cyclone (I think was Gakken too) a year before I got the Transformers Jetfire toy.

I did see one of the Macross movies during a kegger. There was some guy who was a reporter that followed military gossip and followed the fighter jocks around his own jet, and the enemy had someone signing to counteract the Earth Forces signing and I cant remember much else becuase I think I drank too much and fell asleep.

So as you can see , not having Macross in Robotech is not a sticking point for me . Protoculture was a fuel source from a plant, you could call it gasahol or something, it wouldnt have made a difference. To me when Scott left to go space to link up with Hunters fleet, he was just going to link up with the fleet of soldiers that he was a part of and he really digged this Admiral (I had hoped he was cooler than he was in the past). I really wasnt all that worried of what happened to Rick as much as what happened to the fleet and the ships that didnt show up for the last battle. I also figured that theyd run into some other group of aliens who we (the humans) would have to fight back. I really like the whole galaxy seige of Earth concept. I also like to see the design doctrines change as time went as well.

So, I figure the way I see it being done right post Chronicles would be something like this. Dead or alive they have to find the R.E.F. flagship, it has the only highly efficent owerplant to resupply the fleet with thier power source.

In the mean time the fleet needs to learn to find another way to power thier ships while fighting off the Haydonites. They also have to ditch the "Shadow" equipment and weapons the Haydonites helped them develop before they stuck the knives in their backs. The "Super-Shadows" are only so good, they arent atmospheric as well so theyre only of so much use. Standard Alphas make a good stop gap, but unless theres a way to crack thought the Haydonites "stealthiness" missiles are only so usefull, unless that made a "flak" missile that they can aim at an area as opposed to a target. Proboably a more gunslinger orientated design might be in order possibly a single or multimode (single for simplicity and numbers a dual or triple mode for flexibility) design, probably a mixture in quantities fof those to help fill the ranks of troops and machines with a realistic budget/effort/training.

The Colonies will have to step up production and shift battle strategies, shouldnt be a big problem. The problem is Earth, the planets been hammered three times by aliens already and has had to struggle to keep itself together with an identity while under the Invid rule. Theyre going to be war weary and not want to fight, someones going to have to rally them.

Two things can happend to the flagship once a rescue mission finally gets there (which may take a while) ;

1) Its destroyed by the Haydonite ships that stayed behind when Grant escaped to rejoin the fleet at Earth. (The most logical)

2) It was captured by the Haydonites and still would be destroyed, but the crew is captured.

3) The Haydonites decided to proceed chasing Grants ship , but the capital ships follwed further back and are what we saw fighting the R.E.F. fleet. Another Sentinel race manages to resuce the flagship but the powerplant is beyond repair. Need a new power source ( I like this one because it can introduce other races into the fray)(could turn the Nuetron S black hole making feature to an advantage, gravitic powersource technology???)

This is where the better staff come in, they need to write the script to where the characters they have are more animated and develop as more likeable perosnality of thier own. These guys also cant get all these jobs done, so you need some otheracters . This would be a good place to install Reinhardt as a new leader and develop him into a good one. Dana can return to Earth and help prepare the ground forces there for conflict . where you could answer the question on why Dana and Maia dont get along, Dana has grown up from the fighting versus the Masters and the pasting Earth got from the Invid and doesnt like Maias self absorbed superiority (something she can work through), Maia never had to really deal with setback as Dana had to so she hasnt been humbled yet. (There still can be some resentment on Dana not being able to grow up with her parents on the Pioneer mission.) You dont even need thier parents in it at all. develop some new characters that have realistic depth and fill a role in the series and bring the fight to the Haydonites.

It needs to be a series, a 26 episode would make sence. No time travel allowed. Market the new craft designs along with some new ships and make a new line of combat Haydonites that we havent seen yet, that actually look good.

Its not perfect. But its a start. Why do I want it . Part nostalgic part I would like to see more of this series and see it become more than it has been with the prospect of working hard to make an American animation sci-fi that can work into it a more Americanised personna. Did I mention to fix the womens uniform so as not to make it a t&a show?

Long day been sleepy, goonite,

Whammy

[Whamhammer]

Do all of the Enforcers on that page have breasts/nipples, maybe side boobs?

And an Invid Beta? Bet someone wanted that when the new New Generation toys were announced.

The Overlord. I guess that it is Beta like, never thought of it that way. Itd be kinda cool wit the Royal command unit linekd to the front of it. Hmmmm. McRibb............

[Whamhammer]

I always got the "we are better" vibe from TNG - though it was mostly because I analyze things too deeply. I can distinctly remember many times when the Enterprise-D was hailed by some unknown civilization and were asked to identify themselves, and Picard would say "human." The poducers/writers were just lazy probably. Saying, we are a federation of planets composed of x group of species, is like 11 more words.

I'm telling you , it was the ballet style uniforms, they ride up when you get nervous.

DS9 on the other hand I liked better particularly because it threw the sci-fi political correctness/utopia garbage out the door and put its characters in rather nasty, hateful situations doing things that you wouldn't think of a nice starfleet officer doing.

Only in the later episodes, in the beginning ds9 was a Federation truck stop in space. Thier mashed potatoes were pretty good though. I stopped watching it untill the Dominion war hit the show.

[Whamhammer]

nah it's carl macek

wrongo.............. I'm Batman!!! (not Bateman!!!!!!!!!!! Batman!!!!!)

[HappyPenguins]

wrongo.............. I'm Batman!!! (not Bateman!!!!!!!!!!! Batman!!!!!)

oh shi!

[Lolicon]

I only like the original 85 episodes of Deep Space Nine.

[Keith]

Solution? Watch the original Mospeada!

[MacrossCN]

Harmony Gold went and got a trademark on the name "Macross" in the US, Canada, UK, and Germany. So, in order for new Macross stuff to be released on those regions, the distributor who licensed the show would have to get permission from Harmony Gold to use that trademarked name. Big West apparently takes a dim view of that, so here we are. That's why we haven't had any more Macross releases since Macross Plus.

I know, so I feel HG is a impudent company!!!!

p.s.

there is other files of MZ, important lawsuit!!!

http://www.courts.go.jp/search/jhsp0030?ac...mp;hanreiKbn=06

事件番号 平成14(ヨ)22155

事件名

裁判年月日 平成15年11月11日

裁判所名 東京地方裁判所

権利種別 不正競争

訴訟類型 民事仮処分

http://www.courts.go.jp/hanrei/pdf/B23DF91...E3600184B8E.pdf

Edited September 18, 2009 by kresphy

[Gubaba]

Its not perfect. But its a start. Why do I want it . Part nostalgic part I would like to see more of this series and see it become more than it has been with the prospect of working hard to make an American animation sci-fi that can work into it a more Americanised personna.

I have to say, I don't get this. No matter what you do with Robotech, no matter who many times you dub it, tweak it, develop it, or change it...it will never be Americana. It will always be something that has had it's roots in Japan.

It can be interesting in the way that fusion cuisine is interesting, but I don't think it's either possible or desirable to erase the roots so throughly so that none of it shows through.

(For the record, as so that I don't seem like an insufferable Japanophile, I do like a lot of cross-cultural stuff. The Departed was every bit as good as Infernal Affairs, and the Bollywood musical version of the Godfather was a real kick, to cite just two examples. But if you really want an American sci-fi cartoon, you can't do it with Robotech, I don't think.)

[Einherjar]

Its not perfect. But its a start. Why do I want it . Part nostalgic part I would like to see more of this series and see it become more than it has been with the prospect of working hard to make an American animation sci-fi that can work into it a more Americanised personna. Did I mention to fix the womens uniform so as not to make it a t&a show?

I heard a lot about fans' aspirations for Robotech for a while now online, and I can understand their desire to see this thing go places. But when looking real hard at Harmony Gold, what they are, what they can do, etc., it makes what the fans want sound pretty much unrealistic. If the company was actually involved in the animation industry, then yes, I could see them come out with a 13-26 TV series. In reality though, they started out as a compromised distribution and investment company and it really hasn't gone anywhere else. That is totally different from making the anime. In fact, publicly at least, they seem to have dropped those aspects and focused entirely on Robotech. Really, that's all they're known for these days. However, to this day they don't have anything in house to really do anything with it; no facilities for animation, no animators, artists, etc. So far from what we know, all they are relying on is legal jargon, Tommy Yune, lawyers, and money (but possibly not enough to make much of what you talked about in your post) to get as much and do as much as they can with those resources. But how are you supposed to run a successful animation-focused franchise with just that?

Edited September 18, 2009 by Einherjar

[Renato]

I know, so I feel HG is a impudent company!!!!

p.s.

there is other files of MZ, important lawsuit!!!

http://www.courts.go.jp/search/jhsp0030?ac...mp;hanreiKbn=06

事件番号 平成14(ヨ)22155

事件名

裁判年月日 平成15年11月11日

裁判所名 東京地方裁判所

権利種別 不正競争

訴訟類型 民事仮処分

http://www.courts.go.jp/hanrei/pdf/B23DF91...E3600184B8E.pdf

Wow, Kresphy, you really do your homework!

I don't think I have seen this before. It looks to me like a court order describing Bandai Visual as obligator (with BigWest as supporter) and Tatsunoko as obligee, that BV does not agree with the argument that they not be allowed to distribute "Macross" animation DVDs or promo material, etc.

You need to really know your lega-lingo to read it properly, though...

(BTW, I think Kresphy needs a custom title... like SCOOPMEISTER or something )

[Bri]

McDonald's actually had the trademarks registered within South Africa from 1968 to 1985. George Sombonos, owner of a chain of 177 fast food restrautants, didn't even try to trademark McDonald's designs until 1993. The fact that McDonald's already had trademarks registered within South Africa, but that were just never used was mostly likely a major key to their victory. I also found no single mention of "Intellectual Property" in the entire transcript. How does this McDonald's case honestly support the notion that Big West is the rightful owner of "Macross" trademarks through intellectual property ownership?

It doesn't. This is about brand protection and the international regulations involved. If a company has a brand name in use in its home country and its well known with users worldwide then another company cannot simply trademark it and exploit the name. What is important in the McDonalds case is that McD wasn't able to excersise it's trademark in SA for a while so their old trademarks were useless. For Macross these regulations mean that if BW has an older claim on the use of the name Macross in Japan, for example in the form of trademarks, then it could protest against the trademarks of HG.