HG and Robotech Debates

[Gubaba]

Thats your opinion. Like I've said I accept respect your opinion. You also have strong feelings about Robotech and I know nothing said would change it. In order for me to say something that would get you to agree to an idea of a continuation of Robtoech would be nothing short of getting you to accept Robotech, which you've said youre not interested and and Ive said Im not interested in trying to get you to accept Robotech. That is why I've said that it is a rhetorical question.

I'm not asking so that you'll convince me, I'm trying to understand what you see in Robotech.

So let me rephrase the question...why do YOU want to see a continuation? What kind of story would you like to see? What storytelling territory do you think must be covered?

[EXO]

Why does he keep saying "that's your opinion... "

Does he know that this is a forum... built on posts based on people opinions and thoughts and sometimes called upon facts and maybe some pictures?

But that's only my opimion, I never really looked up what an internet forum is on wiki...

[akt_m]

I'm not asking so that you'll convince me, I'm trying to understand what you see in Robotech.

So let me rephrase the question...why do YOU want to see a continuation? What kind of story would you like to see? What storytelling territory do you think must be covered?

In his deepest thoughts he wants HG to enslave Mikimoto, Kawamori and Miyatake, so they would produce Robotech ("true and original" only for RT fanboys) sequels about Rick, Minmay and Lisa for the rest of the eternity.

Edited September 17, 2009 by akt_m

[Gubaba]

In his deepest thoughts he wants HG to enslave Mikimoto, Kawamori and Miyatake, so they would produce robotech sequels about Rick, Minmay and Lisa for the rest of the eternity.

No, that's what Memo wants. Whamhammer seems more reasonable than that.

[Seto Kaiba]

Why does he keep saying "that's your opinion... "

That seems to be his default means of trying to dismiss anything we say that disagrees with his particular worldview.

In his deepest thoughts he wants HG to enslave Mikimoto, Kawamori and Miyatake, so they would produce Robotech ("true and original" only for RT fanboys) sequels about Rick, Minmay and Lisa for the rest of the eternity.

Nah, they've been doing that for decades already, they don't need outside help... the continuation novels, the various spinoff comics and the long-running Sentinels comics, and now Prelude and Shadow Chronicles itself. Harmony Gold just doesn't have the artistic integrity to let those characters go. They've built every major attempt to continue the series (except one) around them, and they depend on those few, tired, overused characters to sell the remainder of the "Shadow Saga", assuming it ever gets made. If they did get rid of those characters, the majority of the tiny, fragmented Robotech fanbase would have no reason to keep watching.

[taksraven]

With all the legal constraints placed upon them dictating what they can and cannot do, its a wonder that the HG staff don't just throw up their hands, yell "STUFF IT" and make a new RT series with completely new characters, situations and mecha set in the year 3000. Oh, wait.............

Taksraven

[Freiflug88]

To be fair, the scenario involving paying royalties to HG is only an absolute in "HG's World." All it would really take is for a company (after paying those licensing fees) to be balsy enough to just ignore HG's threats of litigation. Hell, at thsi point, I think all it would take is a company like Manga to go out and get new masters of Plus from Big West, and release those here. Going by the rule of "we have copyright on the name Macross," Manga's ability to get Plus out the door before those shinanigoats started, and continue to release "Macross" without paying said copyright all these years would kill any litigation HG could try. And bonus, Manga & BE already have a history of working together with Stand Alone Complex.

HG doesn't have copyrights on the name Macross, they have Trademarks. Trademark and copyrights are two different things. If doubt that HG's trademarks are legiate just see for yourself:

Go to: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess...4010:6ko3g4.1.1 and run a basic search of "Macross"

As for Macross II and Macross Plus those two were released before Harmony Gold started registering trademarks for Macross in 2001-2003 so Harmony Gold couldn't do anything to charge them for the trademark then. Manga releasing the Remastered Macross Plus now would be a different story. Simply ignoring HG when they have a legimate trademark to back them up now won't solve anything.

BW forms its contracts to forbid its licensees from doing business with HG (although I'm sure the words are less explicit, something akin to "the licensee is prohibited from entering into corresponding licensing agreements with international bodies.) So there can't really be an agreement where some company (like Bandai was trying to line up) can do business with both BW and HG.

EDIT - I have never seen a BW contract and can not swear to this but it seems pretty clear by the number of attempts Japanese companies have made to bring their products to the US officially only to later cite "licensing issues" after Toynami/HG reps stated they were on board.

That is a pretty low move. Not that HG trademarking the Macross name isn't as well, but to forbid licensed distributors from voluntarily paying HG's trademark on top of paying them the expensive licensing fees for Macross is just as bad.

[Seto Kaiba]

That is a pretty low move. Not that HG trademarking the Macross name isn't as well, but to forbid licensed distributors from voluntarily paying HG's trademark on top of paying them the expensive licensing fees for Macross is just as bad.

Given Harmony Gold's past behavior and the current bad blood between the two companies, I really don't see anything objectionable about them taking the necessary steps to ensure that their property remains out of Harmony Gold's hands.

Edited September 17, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[taksraven]

Once again, this has probably been asked before. Its kind of a carry-over from the Battletech thread, but has there been ANY attempt to get any new macross shows released in the West since M+ and MII or have companies not been bothering?

Taksraven

[Gubaba]

Once again, this has probably been asked before. Its kind of a carry-over from the Battletech thread, but has there been ANY attempt to get any new macross shows released in the West since M+ and MII or have companies not been bothering?

Taksraven

In...2002? 2003? Somewhere around there...Tokyo Pop attempted Macross 7 Trash, and announced that it would be done with Harmony Gold's blessing. A few weeks later, they announced that the project had fallen through. No reason was given.

Other than that, no attempt has been made public.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Do you mean for new shows or for the LAM? I recall them coming up with new designs but nothing that made it to an production. Creatively/Artistically, I can't answer that. Legally, they just need to keep up the trademark or they lose it. Simple as that.

As I've said, REBOOT and REIMAGE. Take the core ideas and have someone build a world. New mecha, new ships, same names but update it. RT:SC tried and failed (lesson here: Don't try). This gives creators and artists room to play things out without being tied to any particular continuity. It gives them a chance to flex the creative muscles and do something unique.

I It could be for the show or even the LAM. I doubt it'd be hard to take the vf-1 and merge it with the alpha to create some awful offspring.

If Big West wanted to stick toes into the U.S., why would they waste time with small potatoes, when they already have a full working relationsihp with Bandai Visual (and by proxy international sister Bandai Entertainment).?

Bandai Entertainment isn't very good in their dub dept. That and there current focus is Gundam 00 and Eureka Seven

That and no one is really doing anime blu-ray releases in the us

In his deepest thoughts he wants HG to enslave Mikimoto, Kawamori and Miyatake, so they would produce Robotech ("true and original" only for RT fanboys) sequels about Rick, Minmay and Lisa for the rest of the eternity.

No, that's what Memo wants. Whamhammer seems more reasonable than that.

*Ahem* A SERIES WHERE RICK, LISA AND MINMAY TRAVEL THROUGH TIME AND.... I can't do it. It takes too much effort to think and type like that.

On Star Trek -I felt Ds9 was at times too political and whiny. That and had some over acting.

[Seto Kaiba]

I It could be for the show or even the LAM. I doubt it'd be hard to take the vf-1 and merge it with the alpha to create some awful offspring.

Palladium's tried a few times to merge the designs of the VF-1 and non-Macross mecha for the various editions of their Robotech RPG. The end result is usually too painful the look at, both because the design is hideous, and because the quality of the art is generally abysmal. I remember their "VF-1V Vindicator" (the horrible bastard offspring of a VF-1 and a AFC-01), and Harmony Gold's own attempts to give the Inbit/Invid a transforming fighter with a VF-1-esque transformation... the Invid Overlord.

[RedWolf]

In...2002? 2003? Somewhere around there...Tokyo Pop attempted Macross 7 Trash, and announced that it would be done with Harmony Gold's blessing. A few weeks later, they announced that the project had fallen through. No reason was given.

Other than that, no attempt has been made public.

From the archived thread.

Macross II, Macross Plus and Macross 7 Trash

The film distribution rights for Macross II and Macross Plus were licensed from Big West, by U.S. Renditions (1992) and Manga Entertainment (1995), for release in the USA without any involvement from Harmony Gold. Likewise, Macross 7 Trash was licensed from Big West, by Glénat (1998), for release in France without any involvement from Harmony Gold. In 2003, Tokyopop announced that they would release Macross 7 Trash in the USA under a license from Harmony Gold, however, the manga was never published and no official explanation was given.

Harmony Gold said that they were not involved with Macross II and Macross Plus because "no one was minding the store" at that time (source needed). The subsequent Tokyo District Court ruling determined that Tatsunoko Productions (and by extension Harmony Gold) did not have any copyrights to the Macross derivatives (ie: Macross II, Macross Plus), thereby rendering the "no one was minding the store" explanation moot.

I saw the preface page once of the M7 Trash manga, HG was credited which was the point of the fiasco. What happened is that BW gave Tokyo Pop the license to publish the manga. But HG wants a cut even if they didn't have any hand in Macross derivatives. Tokyo Pop just to stop HG from hassling them pays and credits HG. Bad move as this got BW mad as M7 and its spin offs are their baby. BW yanks the license from Tokyo Pop.

Now since this happened in 2003 I'm not sure of timeline if its pre- or post the final decision of the Tokyo District Court about the Macross IP copyright, which BW won.

If this happened post Final Decision HG was stupidly trying to test waters on how much they can get away with.

Tokyo Pop made a mistake for dealing with the devil. They lost the license for M7 Trash for it.

I wonder how much money Tokyo Pop lost over Macross 7 Trash.

[azrael]

That is a pretty low move. Not that HG trademarking the Macross name isn't as well, but to forbid licensed distributors from voluntarily paying HG's trademark on top of paying them the expensive licensing fees for Macross is just as bad.

It would be called "exclusive rights" which can be worded into a contract. This is done quite a bit. Cell phone companies and cellphone carriers are littered with these deals. And it doesn't have to be BW or the IP holder that puts that language into a contract, it can be the other party. The other side can say, "if we are going to support your product, then we and our subsidiaries want exclusive rights to it." So if the IP company decides to do some business elsewhere, the company with exclusive rights to the property can butt in and say they have a contract which says we have certain rights to certain areas and that they need to involved in any contract negotiations pertaining to those areas of interest. And yes, it can be done by the IP holder if they don't want certain parties interfering with their property, i.e. "I will give exclusive rights to this product you if you do not transfer to a 3rd party or not include me in any kind of contract negotiations." Although, then we get into a some other issues which would probably force me to read up on monopolistic laws.

[Gubaba]

From the archived thread.

I saw the preface page once of the M7 Trash manga, HG was credited which was the point of the fiasco. What happened is that BW gave Tokyo Pop the license to publish the manga. But HG wants a cut even if they didn't have any hand in Macross derivatives. Tokyo Pop just to stop HG from hassling them pays and credits HG. Bad move as this got BW mad as M7 and its spin offs are their baby. BW yanks the license from Tokyo Pop.

Now since this happened in 2003 I'm not sure of timeline if its pre- or post the final decision of the Tokyo District Court about the Macross IP copyright, which BW won.

If this happened post Final Decision HG was stupidly trying to test waters on how much they can get away with.

Tokyo Pop made a mistake for dealing with the devil. They lost the license for M7 Trash for it.

I wonder how much money Tokyo Pop lost over Macross 7 Trash.

*sigh*

We've been through this before. Many times.

No one at Tokyo Pop, HG, or Big West ever commented on WHY the project the canned.

Again, your speculation is not fact.

[jenius]

I don't think it really should ever be said that "BW won" anything. BW actually lost quite a bit. I kind of think of it as BW owning a really sweet car but having Tats tell them "Hey, if you want to go on this street you're going to have to pay us a usage fee." BW took Tats to court and the court said, "The car is definitely yours but you are going to have to pay Tats if you want to drive it down that street."

People say BW won because the court case made it clear that they actually were the IP holders for Macross but what they were upset about (from my understanding) was that they couldn't sell Macross Plus merchandise in the US without paying Tatsunoko/HG a cut. The courts said "Without Tats there was no original Macross so you're going to owe them a cut for anything you sell with that name outside of Japan."

Since then BW has shrugged, said "F it", made it so all their licenses restrict the licensees to selling in Japan, and have let the Internet and exporters solve that pesky issue about not being able to distribute internationally.

[Einherjar]

Since then BW has shrugged, said "F it", made it so all their licenses restrict the licensees to selling in Japan, and have let the Internet and exporters solve that pesky issue about not being able to distribute internationally.

I guess so, at least they're the ones not wasting money on lawyers and legal crap they can't even use. They work for a living.

[Seto Kaiba]

I don't think it really should ever be said that "BW won" anything. BW actually lost quite a bit. I kind of think of it as BW owning a really sweet car but having Tats tell them "Hey, if you want to go on this street you're going to have to pay us a usage fee." BW took Tats to court and the court said, "The car is definitely yours but you are going to have to pay Tats if you want to drive it down that street."

People say BW won because the court case made it clear that they actually were the IP holders for Macross but what they were upset about (from my understanding) was that they couldn't sell Macross Plus merchandise in the US without paying Tatsunoko/HG a cut. The courts said "Without Tats there was no original Macross so you're going to owe them a cut for anything you sell with that name outside of Japan."

Um... there's a lot of things wrong with what you've posted here... that's not what the courts concluded at all. In fact, that's the exact opposite of what the courts found.

It's true that Harmony Gold's attempts to bar Macross merchandise from the US in 1999-2000 were a major factor in starting the whole legal battle between Big West and Tatsunoko, but the courts ruled that Tatsunoko has no control over Macross derivatives (sequels, prequels, etc.). They aren't entitled to a cut of international sales, or anything else like that. The problem is that while the courts were sorting the whole thing out, Harmony Gold had gone and filed for a trademark on the name "Macross" in the US, Canada, UK, and Germany... and THAT is what's keeping Macross products out of the hands of western audiences right now. As far as Tatsunoko goes, the courts found that their rights were limited to the rights they'd been given by Big West under contract (international film distribution and merchandising rights for the original series excluding Japan), and the economic rights to the original series (but not to the Big West-owned intellectual property used in it).

[Bri]

[...] They aren't entitled to a cut of international sales, or anything else like that. The problem is that while the courts were sorting the whole thing out, Harmony Gold had gone and filed for a trademark on the name "Macross" in the US, Canada, UK, and Germany... and THAT is what's keeping Macross products out of the hands of western audiences right now.

As far as I can tell Seto's description of the situation is spot on. What puzzles me is why HG won the fight over the trademark. Both HG and BW filed for the US trademark but HG won it. Afaik a licensee being awarded the trademark over the IP holder is irregular. The laywer representing BW during that time, Cynthia Nishimoto, is now a Bandai Visual legal staff member. We rarely hear anything on this part of the legal fight over Macross, which is really the one thing that keeps Macross out of the west.

Edited September 17, 2009 by Bri

[Keith]

HG doesn't have copyrights on the name Macross, they have Trademarks. Trademark and copyrights are two different things. If doubt that HG's trademarks are legiate just see for yourself:

Go to: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess...4010:6ko3g4.1.1 and run a basic search of "Macross"

As for Macross II and Macross Plus those two were released before Harmony Gold started registering trademarks for Macross in 2001-2003 so Harmony Gold couldn't do anything to charge them for the trademark then. Manga releasing the Remastered Macross Plus now would be a different story. Simply ignoring HG when they have a legimate trademark to back them up now won't solve anything.

That is a pretty low move. Not that HG trademarking the Macross name isn't as well, but to forbid licensed distributors from voluntarily paying HG's trademark on top of paying them the expensive licensing fees for Macross is just as bad.

Bottom line, Manga is still releasing Plus & II, on DVD, and Digital media download. Both productions are being released with the name "Macross," and both blow huge holes in any attempt for HG to claim ownership of the name "Macross." Any hard litigation would default back to the ownership of the intellectual property, which resides with BW.

What needs to happen? Manga & BE need to decide they want to release more Macross, form a posse, go on down to Big West to get their blessing, come back and blow HG out of the water.

[taksraven]

Bottom line, Manga is still releasing Plus & II, on DVD, and Digital media download. Both productions are being released with the name "Macross," and both blow huge holes in any attempt for HG to claim ownership of the name "Macross." Any hard litigation would default back to the ownership of the intellectual property, which resides with BW.

What needs to happen? Manga & BE need to decide they want to release more Macross, form a posse, go on down to Big West to get their blessing, come back and blow HG out of the water.

I think that could happen, if the interested parties had enough interest in releasing Macross in the West. (And I don't think they are interested enough to do so, and probably never will be)

If push came to shove, I don't think that HG would have the money necessary to try to defend their ownership of Macross.

I still think that the most realistic option is HG collapsing financially before there is a chance of any more Macross being released in the West.

Taksraven

[terry the lone wolf]

Bottom line, Manga is still releasing Plus & II, on DVD, and Digital media download. Both productions are being released with the name "Macross," and both blow huge holes in any attempt for HG to claim ownership of the name "Macross." Any hard litigation would default back to the ownership of the intellectual property, which resides with BW.

What needs to happen? Manga & BE need to decide they want to release more Macross, form a posse, go on down to Big West to get their blessing, come back and blow HG out of the water.

Wasn't Harmony Gold selling Macross Plus on Robotech.com a few years ago? Sounds like Manga cut aside deal with HG.

[RedWolf]

*sigh*

We've been through this before. Many times.

No one at Tokyo Pop, HG, or Big West ever commented on WHY the project the canned.

Again, your speculation is not fact.

But that is obviously what happened.

Tokyo Pop already published M7 Trash in France without giving credit to HG + Suddenly HG is credited in the US edition + HG has Macross trademarked in the US + BW disputes Tatsunoko's IP claim taking them to court ergo HG's claim of exclusive right to Macross and all derivatives in US = Tokyo Pops M7 Trash not getting support from the original licensor Big West

Read between the lines and you get the big picture.

[jenius]

Um... there's a lot of things wrong with what you've posted here... that's not what the courts concluded at all. In fact, that's the exact opposite of what the courts found.

It's true that Harmony Gold's attempts to bar Macross merchandise from the US in 1999-2000 were a major factor in starting the whole legal battle between Big West and Tatsunoko, but the courts ruled that Tatsunoko has no control over Macross derivatives (sequels, prequels, etc.). They aren't entitled to a cut of international sales, or anything else like that. The problem is that while the courts were sorting the whole thing out, Harmony Gold had gone and filed for a trademark on the name "Macross" in the US, Canada, UK, and Germany... and THAT is what's keeping Macross products out of the hands of western audiences right now. As far as Tatsunoko goes, the courts found that their rights were limited to the rights they'd been given by Big West under contract (international film distribution and merchandising rights for the original series excluding Japan), and the economic rights to the original series (but not to the Big West-owned intellectual property used in it).

Are you 100% certain on that? I was pretty sure the courts ruled against BW (again, while defining what BW actually did have the rights to) and found in favor of Tatsunoko having certain rights. It was Tatsunoko having those rights that made BW give up on the whole Macross trademark issue and everything else and focus exclusively domestically.

[Einherjar]

Wasn't Harmony Gold selling Macross Plus on Robotech.com a few years ago? Sounds like Manga cut aside deal with HG.

Maybe they bought some copies to sell for their store because it's Macross related. It's the store portion of the site, maybe they sell stuff they don't have exclusive rights to. Their inventory has been cut down over the years, but for instance, were they involved in releasing Mari Iijima's "Right Now" Album they're selling there?

Edited September 17, 2009 by Einherjar

[azrael]

Since then BW has shrugged, said "F it", made it so all their licenses restrict the licensees to selling in Japan, and have let the Internet and exporters solve that pesky issue about not being able to distribute internationally.

Unfortunately, we are not sure that BW is doing that because no one has seen their contracts.

Wasn't Harmony Gold selling Macross Plus on Robotech.com a few years ago? Sounds like Manga cut aside deal with HG.

They can sell it as a 3rd party vendor. They don't need to go directly to Manga Video to sell it. They can get it through a distributor and then sell it like any retail store.

As far as I can tell Seto's description of the situation is spot on. What puzzles me is why HG won the fight over the trademark. Both HG and BW filed for the US trademark but HG won it. Afaik a licensee being awarded the trademark over the IP holder is irregular. The laywer representing BW during that time, Cynthia Nishimoto, is now a Bandai Visual legal staff member. We rarely hear anything on this part of the legal fight over Macross, which is really the one thing that keeps Macross out of the west.

From the looks of it, BW abandoned (let it die or never renewed it) the trademark in 2000. No one was using it as of 2002 when HG file for it so I can't answer why BW never followed up on it.

[Freiflug88]

Given Harmony Gold's past behavior and the current bad blood between the two companies, I really don't see anything objectionable about them taking the necessary steps to ensure that their property remains out of Harmony Gold's hands.

I see the whole thing as a stupid pissing contest in which everyone loses. Sure BW had a "right" to do what they did and write HG out of the exclusive rights contract, but for one I doubt that HG would ever be able to hijack Macross with a HG staffer or two whose on board just to make sure HG is not being jibbed of trademark revenue or left out of the loop. I think it was more of BW's pride that lead to the deceison not a fear that HG would somehow seize Macross.

As far as I can tell Seto's description of the situation is spot on. What puzzles me is why HG won the fight over the trademark. Both HG and BW filed for the US trademark but HG won it. Afaik a licensee being awarded the trademark over the IP holder is irregular. The laywer representing BW during that time, Cynthia Nishimoto, is now a Bandai Visual legal staff member. We rarely hear anything on this part of the legal fight over Macross, which is really the one thing that keeps Macross out of the west.

I am no legal expert, but with regards to trademarks I know its not who owns the Intellectual Property that matters. What matters is who put the products or services in commerce and registers the name or logo first. Considering that HG was marketing Robotech: The Macross Saga internationally through their deal with Tatsunko almost a decade before Big West released Macross Plus outside of Japan through Manga, so HG obvious had first use of commerce on the Macross name trademark outside of Japan. As Seto also pointed out HG aquired the trademarks while BW verus Tatsunko was still going on, so Harmony Gold probably got BW by surprise and registered the trademarks when BW was busy in court hearings. It probably also helped HG tremondously that as a worldwide distrubitor they no doubt already had representatives around the globe that could quickly register the Macross trademark in places like Europe and South America.

[Bri]

But that is obviously what happened.

Tokyo Pop already published M7 Trash in France without giving credit to HG + Suddenly HG is credited in the US edition + HG has Macross trademarked in the US + BW disputes Tatsunoko's IP claim taking them to court ergo HG's claim of exclusive right to Macross and all derivatives in US = Tokyo Pops M7 Trash not getting support from the original licensor Big West

Read between the lines and you get the big picture.

It were publishers Glénat and Panini who published M7 trash in Europe. This was in the late 90s before HG got round to aquire the trademarks in the diverse European countries. Tokyopop tried to publish it after HG got the US trademarks. Different situations.

[RedWolf]

It were publishers Glénat and Panini who published M7 trash in Europe. This was in the late 90s before HG got round to aquire the trademarks in the diverse European countries. Tokyopop tried to publish it after HG got the US trademarks. Different situations.

I stand corrected.

But Ponderous Slaging Ponderous that even when Tokyo Pop got the license from Big West for Macross 7 Trash they still credited (had to pay) Harmony Gold for the book. Harmony Gold did not have any involvement in Macross 7 or Macross 7 Trash. Because of the trademark? For HG not to hassle them?

This I see is a violation of good faith of the licensee towards the owner Big West.

[Funkenstein]

To my knowledge, trademarks have no "good faith" requirements. Its basically first in,first out and that you have to produce something commercial for some amount of years to have ownership over it. This is opposed to copyright and patents that require "good faith" in the form of prior art or ownership .That's how it is in the United States.

[Freiflug88]

I stand corrected.

But Ponderous Slaging Ponderous that even when Tokyo Pop got the license from Big West for Macross 7 Trash they still credited (had to pay) Harmony Gold for the book. Harmony Gold did not have any involvement in Macross 7 or Macross 7 Trash. Because of the trademark? For HG not to hassle them?

This I see is a violation of good faith of the licensee towards the owner Big West.

It was because of HG's trademark on the name "Macross." While HG didn't have any involement what so ever with Macross 7 or Macross 7 Trash as long they have "Macross" in the name Harmony Gold can claim trademark rights. Would you expect to name an original series "Star Wars 7" or an original manga "Star Wars 7 Trash," and somehow avoid paying Lucas Arts to use "Star Wars" in the title?

It is a violation when Big West puts "don't pay HG for the trademark" or whatever in the contract. So either you violate Harmony Gold's trademark and get legally screwed or you pay Harmony Gold's trademark and violate Big West's contract only to get legally screwed as well..

[Lolicon]

What's legal and what's moral/ethical are two different things. Since HG nabbed the Macross trademark, they can legally claim a cut of the profits off, say, a US release of Macross Frontier. But is it right for them to claim monetary compensation for a series and intellectual property they had nothing to do with just because of a legal technicality? (Inadequate or outdated laws might be a better way of putting it.)

Isn't merchandising where most of the money is anyway? Refuse to buy products with the HG label (an easy thing to do since their crap is so shoddy anyway). The only thing I own with an HG label are my Animeigo Macross DVDs, bought when they first came out and before I knew how sleazy HG is.

To me, what HG is doing is akin to internet domain squatting. I'm no lawyer, but aren't there laws preventing that now?

Edited September 17, 2009 by Lolicon

[azrael]

To me, what HG is doing is akin to internet domain squatting. I'm no lawyer, but aren't there laws preventing that now?

Squatting would imply they aren't doing bull-dung with the trademark. That gawd-awful "Stealth" VF-thingofabob says otherwise, unfortunately.

[Keith]

It was because of HG's trademark on the name "Macross." While HG didn't have any involement what so ever with Macross 7 or Macross 7 Trash as long they have "Macross" in the name Harmony Gold can claim trademark rights. Would you expect to name an original series "Star Wars 7" or an original manga "Star Wars 7 Trash," and somehow avoid paying Lucas Arts to use "Star Wars" in the title?

It is a violation when Big West puts "don't pay HG for the trademark" or whatever in the contract. So either you violate Harmony Gold's trademark and get legally screwed or you pay Harmony Gold's trademark and violate Big West's contract only to get legally screwed as well..

Difference being, GEOREGE LUCAS CREATED FREAKIN' STAR WARS! HG did not create Macross, they own zero in the way of intellectual rights. Kawamori, Nue, BW can call the next series "Macross Macross Macross Macross" if they want, and it doesn't matter, because THEY OWN & CREATED MACROSS!

What you're describing is an event where say SW is released in the U.S. in '77, and let's for arguments sake say Tatsunoko decides they want to distribute it in Japan, goes through all the legal mumbo jumbo, and does so. Then immediately file's for trademarks on the name "SW" in as many countries as they can before Lucas/20th Century Fox get an opportunity to, and demands that they pay Tatsunoko money in every country that's not the U.S. that they try to release SW in.

Or hell, I'll do you one better, let's just say while all this was going on, Gene Roddenberry put a trademark on the word "Star" in every country including the U.S prior, and demands that EVERYONE pay him for putting the word "Star", and immedately demands royalties be paid for releasing SW, Stargate, Starship troopers, Starman, Star Search, The Next Foodnetwork Star, Star Force, Starburst, Tri-Star pictures..

Do you understand the point?

To put it simply, the name "Macross" isn't the same as the name "Macross Plus, Macross 7, Macross Dynamite 7, Macross Frontier, Macross Zero, Macross II." That's like saying anything with the name "NInja" in it can be suided because someone decided to trademark "Ninja Scroll." And while the name "Macross" is unique, it still doesn't belong to HG, since any burdon of proof regarding inception of the name would be against them.

[Keith]

Squatting would imply they aren't doing bull-dung with the trademark. That gawd-awful "Stealth" VF-thingofabob says otherwise, unfortunately.

Speaking of which, did Toynami ever get patent rights to the molds of the various Macross toys with their individual specific transformation styles that they've ripped off? I still say there's room for Bandai to ream them.