HG and Robotech Debates

[Lolicon]

It would be more accurate to say that he hates me in part because I don't find Bobby's homosexuality offensive. As he put it on RobotechX:

"On a sad note,it is a shame that a homosexual was piloting the Macross quarter.I guess that means the homosexual plague will have a place in the future.I mean Alto was also a kabuki female dancer..Jeeze that is sad"

and after we told him to drop the bigotry and explained the cultural context of both characters:

"Sheesh!,I did not know that there was that many gay huggers out there.I can tell by all the gay huggers who supports homosexuality it will be required by law for everyone to be gay by the year 2018."

Is he aware that Yellow Belmont *ahem* I mean Yellow Dancer is a transvestite?

[azrael]

I still don't see why you people are so fascinated with those "interesting" people on RT.com. They live in their own world and so do we. Ignoring them does wonders. And if you can't, well then, maybe you should stay over there and not bring their business over here. *hint hint*

As for this whole "All things Robotech"-business, of course the own Robotech. Robotech is their product. Robotech is their creative property. They aren't saying they own Macross, Southern Cross, or Mospeada. They have licenses to those works. Robotech is their intellectual property. I still don't understand why people can't get this through their heads, on both ends of the argument.

[Freiflug88]

Prog Knife, I can see. Beam sabers, not so much.

No, it doesn't. All the swing bars are there. Now, the VF-25 uses magnets for some parts of the transformation, but nothing splits or breaks off. It all holds together.

I know the VF-25 knives are literally Prog Knives covered in pin point barriers, but I know I am not the only one who thinks beam/light saber every time I see the knives surrounded by a green beam of energy. It also doesn't help that the first time I even watched Macross Frontier I also didn't even notice the actual black knife blades so I actually saw the knives as literally being beam knives, it wasn't until I got high quality videos that weren't encoded in Divx that I could actually tell the difference between the black blades and the blackness of space.

Didn't even see the swing bars until I just now rewatched my Bluray rip in slow motion. Its another case of perception versus reality that causes many viewers like Pizza and I to see the VF-25 transformation as very reminiscent of older very unrealistic mecha transformations.

[jenius]

Is he aware that Yellow Belmont *ahem* I mean Yellow Dancer is a transvestite?

He's just a cross-dresser... and he does it as a clever disguise as to avoid detection. It's a bit far-fetched in reality but they were pretty straight forward with it in the show. He definitely had a human female love interest and then an alien female love interest. Homophobes have no reason to be uneasy with Yellow.

[Einherjar]

I still don't see why you people are so fascinated with those "interesting" people on RT.com. They live in their own world and so do we. Ignoring them does wonders. And if you can't, well then, maybe you should stay over there and not bring their business over here. *hint hint*

How about MEMO, he comes here regardless of what we say spreading disinformation anyway.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Einherjar

[azrael]

How about MEMO, he comes here regardless of what we say spreading disinformation anyway.

You listen to MEMO????

[Einherjar]

You listen to MEMO????

Yes, and he's full of himself. But it's hard to ignore him when he keeps coming here using caps on his posts on purpose wanting to be taken seriously like an expert on something.

EDIT - Yes, I listen to what MEMO says, but it's kind of obvious that a lot of it is fanboy BS. Sorry, I'm confused about the context of the question.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Einherjar

[akt_m]

NEW THREAD EH?

HMMM..

...........................................RTTEHTEHTEHTEHTEHTEHTEHBEST

HEHEHE

fixed

Edited August 14, 2009 by akt_m

[Lolicon]

He's just a cross-dresser... and he does it as a clever disguise as to avoid detection. It's a bit far-fetched in reality but they were pretty straight forward with it in the show. He definitely had a human female love interest and then an alien female love interest. Homophobes have no reason to be uneasy with Yellow.

Oh I agree with you on all those counts. Transvestite does not equal homosexual. And homophobes have no real reason to be uneasy with Yellow.

But the sad state of things is that for many the conotation of transvestite is homosexuality (or at least in the same ballpark), and sound reasoning is not something I often see in homophobia. So I would expect someone like the aforementioned poster who hates Bobby and Alto (who isn't gay either) to have an equally dim view of Yellow.

Then again, I think it's been well-established that logic and reasoning don't apply to such posters.

[taksraven]

Also please use a spell check program.

I think that the poor spelling is the best part. It means that I can't read his messages without getting a headache and as a result I don't read his messages. Waste of time anyway.

Taksraven

[Jasonc]

I still don't see why you people are so fascinated with those "interesting" people on RT.com. They live in their own world and so do we. Ignoring them does wonders. And if you can't, well then, maybe you should stay over there and not bring their business over here. *hint hint*

There still are people there that I get along with, and I still get to look at the officer forums there from a friend, so I do keep in contact with a few people there. As for Seto, and the others (including myself), I don't think it's a fascination. While there are a few good people on the site that are still very cool, it seems to be the awkward fanboys that spoil it for the rest. What's sad is that over the years, there's been quite a few fanboys that have given all the rt fans a very bad name. I do talk to Memo from time to time, and while I don't talk about the license debates and all, it seems like his argument and belief is directed in the wrong area. Perhaps just rephrasing his statements would clear up his thoughts there.

The people who keep whining about using the original designs for the LAM??? Well, c'mon. Put 1 and 1 together and get 2. HG isn't using the Macross designs in new works cause they can't, so why would WB do it? Right there, instead of the back and forth arguing that they have been trying to make that HG can use all the designs for anything, perhaps they need to get those clues.

BTW, for RT fans reading, toys and merchandise is different from stories and new productions, don't get that mixed up in your argument that has already been proven wrong.

[RedWolf]

Can we have the FAQ from the first page of the earlier thread at this version's first page?

So a new reader wont get confused about the legal stuff.

[Wanzerfan]

Let's not forget that Robotech was originally a line of plastic models that Revell licenced from various Japanese animes, like Macross, Orguss (the Nebo was the Orguss 1), and other series I can't begin to identify (I had a model of a mecha that was the bipedel equivilent of a bathysphere). It seems that Harmony Gold bought (or stole) the name when Revell folded.

[Beltane70]

That other series of models would be Fang of the Sun Dougram, Wanzerfan. I actually had a couple of those models.

[MEMO1DOMINION]

FROM A GOOD PERSON ON THIS THREAD THAT WANTS TO REALLY DEBATE. I WILL POST WHAT WE BEEN TALKING.

(YOU HATE HIGH CAPS, SKIP THIS POST)

WHAT I SAY IS NOT INSIDE SOURCE FROM HG SO I JUST JUSTIFY WHAT I KNOW WITH WHAT IS OUT THERE AND WHAT I HAVE COLLECTED HERE, LONG TIME AGO WITH GOOD DEBATERS, AND OFF THREAD. INLCUDING LAWYERS (MIND THAT THEY GO BY WHAT I KNOW), PEOPLE IN THE INDUSTRY HERE IN HOLLYWOOD, AT CONS AND EVENTS.

1. BW/TATSU/STUDIO NUE IN THE EARLY 80’S CREATED MACROSS. WHO DID WHAT IS IRRELEVANT BUT WHAT MATTERS THE MOST IS THE FINAL DEAL OR SAID CONTRACT. WHO SIGNED WHAT AND WHO KEPT WHAT I DON’T KNOW.

2.AT THE TIME WE KNOW THERE WAS A LINE DRAWN ON WHERE THESE RIGHTS WOULD GO TO THE SPECIFICS OF SDF MACROSS. THAT FINAL DEAL/CONTRACT IS NOT KNOW OR NEVER BEEN PUBLISHED OUTSIDE OF HG, BW, STUDIO NUE OR TATSU. JUST THAT WHATEVER BW DOES IS KEPT INSIDE OF JAPAN AND EVERYTHING ELSE OUTSIDE OF JAPAN TATSU KEEPS. (NO SPECIFICS IS KNOW). (ONLY FANDOM DEBATES)

3.AT THE TIME NONE OF THE PARTY INVOLVED COPYRIGHTED ANYTHING OR GOT DOWN TO SPECIFICS. HG GETS RIGHST THROUGH TATSU AND LATER HG EXPANDED THEM THROUGH ROBOTECH AND IN THE 90’S WENT AND STARTED CORNERING THE MARKET WITH INTERNATIONAL RIGHTS. WHAT THEN WAS A CONTRACT WITH TATSU EXCLUDING JAPAN.

4.MOVE TO YEAR 2002 AND LATER, BW DECIDES TO GO TO COURT TO FIGHT OVER SPECIFIC RIGHTS AND COPYRIGTS.. JAPAN HANDS BW SOME ELEMENTS AND TATSU OTHER ELEMENTS.

PROBLEM WITH 4 IS WITH BW AND TATSU INITIAL CONTRACT HG WAS ABLE TO GET INTERNATIONAL RIGHTS EVEN BEFORE A JUDGMENT FROM THE JAPANESE COURTS. HG HAS RIGHTS THROUGH THE FIRST CONTRACT. SOMETHIG THAT BW AND ALL PARTYS INVOLVED FAILED TO NEGOTIATE INTO SPECIFICS.

BEST WAY I CAN GIVE AN EXAMPLE IS,

YOU ARE A RENTER IN AN APARTMENT COMPLEX. YOU SIGN A DEAL WITH OWNER OR LANDLORD. YOUR DEAL IS SET REGARDLES OF NEW CONTARCT WITH NEW RENETERS 20 YEARS LATER. YOUR CONTRACT IS GOLDEN TILL YOU LET IT EXPIRE OR MOVE OUT. IF LANDLORD DECIDES TO DO CHANGES TO THE COMPLEX YOU RENTING, THE LANDLORD IS STILL BINDED BY ITS INITIAL CONTRACT. WE ALL KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY BREAK THAT CONTRACT AND ONE TAKES IT TO COURT.

SAME HERE WITH BW. EVEN THOUGHT THEY HAVE RIGHTS WICH ONLY PERTAIN TO JAPAN (AS OF 2002 AND LATER), SINCE HG NEVER WENT INTO JAPAN TO EXPAND ON SAID RIGHTS TO INTERNATIONAL MARKET BW WAS ABLE TO TAKE JAPAN AND HG WAS ABLE TO TAKE ALL OF OUTSIDE JAPAN WITH SAID INITIAL CONTRACT. WHY THOSE PAPERS THAT BW GOT MEANS NOTHING OUTSIDE OF JAPAN. HG ALREADY EXPANDED BY RIGHT WITH ITS FIRST CONTRACT WICH OF COURSE COURTS OUTSIDE OF JAPAN WILL FIRST SITE. DEAL IS A DEAL TILL HG DOES NOT RENEW OR GIVES UP A INTERNATIONAL MARKET. BW HAS COPYRIGHT AS OF LATE 2002 TO EXPAND ON FROM THERE. BUT THEY STILL HAVE TO HONOR THE FIRST CONTRACT RIGHST THAT HG HAS BEEN GIVIN AND EXPANDED BY RIGHT IN THE 80'S AND 90'S.

BUT THE NEW JUDGMENT OF JAPAN DOES NOT BREAK THAT FIRST DEAL WICH BW NEVER EXPANDED ON AND WENT AND SIGNED CONTRACTS WICH BECOMES THE CATCH 22. WISH WE ALL KNEW WHAT THOSE DEALS ARE.

JASONC IS RIGHT IN ONE SENCE. IF WB WANTS TO GO INTO THE JAPANESE MARKET, THE MACROSS RLAM WOULD HAVE TO CHANGE CONSIDERABLE OR WB HAS TO FRONT UP SOME ROYALTIES TO BW. IT’S A WAIT AND SEE.

20 YEARS MACROSS WENT WITHOUT RIGHTS AND HG JUST STARTED PICKING IT UP IN THE 90’S. THAT FIRST CONTRACT IS SET IN STONE SINCE BW SIGNED THOSE DEALS WAY BACK. GET THOSE DOCUMENTS, THEN YOU KNOW WHAT HG HAS AND DON’T HAVE. TILL THEN, BW IS AT A LOSS OUTSIDE OF JAPAN. AND BW KNOWS THAT AND WHY THEY WILL NOT RAISE A FINGER OUTSIDE OF JAPAN. THEY HAVE MADE NO MOVE SINCE 2002 AND AFTER. THEY DID PUT THAT PAPER UP. THAT MEANS NOTHING TO HG. BUT THEN TAKEN DOWN.

ONE THING IN HOLLYWOOD IS KNOWN, A RLAM IS AN EXPANSION IN MERCHANDISING. JUST THINK OF IT AS ANOTHER ROBOTECH VIDEO GAME. ONLY AS AN RLAM.

THERE. I PUT IN SHORT. WHAT I STAND BY AND SO FAR NOTHING HAS CHANGED OUTSIDE OF JAPAN SINCE THE JUDGMENT CAME DOWN.

THOSE THAT WANT TO CONTINUE TO DEBATE.. FEEL FREE TO GO AHEAD. I CAN DO IT OUTSIDE OF FORUM AS WELL.

AND I WAS ALSO PERVY TO THE SAME SOURCE AS JASONC WAS. JUST THAT TO MANY FRIENDS INVLVED THAT I JUST WANT TO KEEP THE TRUCE WITH THE GUYS AT MW, SOME EX RT.MEMBERS, AND FEW POSTERS IN THIS THREAD. AND I KNOW THE BAD ONES DONT SPEAK FOR THE FANDOM.

SEE YOU GUYS LATER.

HEHEHE

[Gubaba]

Let's not forget that Robotech was originally a line of plastic models that Revell licenced from various Japanese animes, like Macross, Orguss (the Nebo was the Orguss 1), and other series I can't begin to identify (I had a model of a mecha that was the bipedel equivilent of a bathysphere). It seems that Harmony Gold bought (or stole) the name when Revell folded.

They didn't buy (or steal) the name when Revell folded. The name was forced on HG by Revell BECAUSE Revell had the Macross kits. After the series aired, Revell started putting out more kits that were directly connected to the series (like the SDF-1).

No offense intended, but where do you get your information? Most of it appears to be wrong...

[Gubaba]

FROM A GOOD PERSON ON THIS THREAD THAT WANTS TO REALLY DEBATE. I WILL POST WHAT WE BEEN TALKING.

(YOU HATE HIGH CAPS, SKIP THIS POST)

It's not the caps, it's that I can't figure out what you're saying most of the time.

AND I WAS ALSO PERVY...

Been watching Dana's shower scenes one too many times, have we?

[MEMO1DOMINION]

Gubaba

It's not the caps, it's that I can't figure out what you're saying most of the time.

HEHE, LUCKY FOR YOU I POST LITTLE...

Been watching Dana's shower scenes one too many times, have we?

NEVER SEEN THE ORIGINAL MOSPEADA..

[Gubaba]

NEVER SEEN THE ORIGINAL MOSPEADA..

That little "plip plip plip" sound you hear is your credibility as a Robotech fan dribbling away, for not knowing which saga features Dana...

[Einherjar]

MEMO was referring to me, and this is what he originally told me as a response to the questions I asked earlier in the thread:

Statement Regarding Legal Proceedings in Japan - Harmony Gold not a party to any litigation

Let's face it, a lot has happened in the seven years since Alan Letz made that groundbreaking announcement.

1.Are you at liberty to say who these people are, because for all we know this info could have all been from HG employees.

YES I AM. IN MY PART TIME JOB, I JUST HAPPEN TO WORK AND IN CHARGE OF A BUILDING HIGH RISE IN DOWNTOWN L.A. SINCE THERE ALREADY INDUSTRY PEOPLE LAWYERS THAT DEAL WITH THESE THINGS ALL THE TIME I JUST HAPPEN TO ASK MANNY OF THESE LAWYERS THE SAME QUESTIONS AND DIFFERENT SCENARIOS. WHO I ASK I CANT TELL. BUT WILL EXPLAIN MY FINDINGS IN A BIT. AND NO, ITS NOT HG LAWYERS OR STAFF. EVEN THOUGHT THEY AROUND ME I AM NOT PERVY TO INSIDE INFO LIKE TOM BATEMAN WAS AND WICH GOT HIM FIRED.

2. I say this because with things like the LAM coming out, you know, it's a big thing for many people, it would be nice to hear responses from other people/companies besides HG talk about things like this. Something that's not a HG convention report or notes from an informal interview with a HG crew member to even things out.

PROBLEM IS, THOSE AGAINST IT HERE IN MW AND RT.COM ARE SMALL APPLES COMPARED TO THE FANDOM OUT THERE. YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER, HG IS AT A LEGAL BIND WITH SAYING INFO THAT HAS TO DO ANYTHING WITH THE MOVIE. THATS THE WAY IT IS IN HOLLYWOOD. YOU BREAK THAT DEAL AND YOU BREAK OFF THE CHANCE OF MAKING A MOVIE. THESE STUDIOS FIGHT TO BE THE BEST AND PIC TEH RIGHT DAY FOR SHOWING. JIVING AND HUSTLING FOR REALESE DATES WHEN THEY KNOW THERE ARE OTHER COMPETITION MOVIES OUT THERE. WB WILL NOT TALK BECOUSE ITS NOT IN THEIR BEST INTREST TO DO SO. AND SAD FOR THE GOOD FANS BUT THEY DONT WORK LIKE US POSTERS DO.

3.They should take an active role in this now, what's their response? And I'm not talking about the recent ones relayed from WB to HG and then to the fans everywhere. They should be able to speak for themselves, they're Warner Bros.

LIKE I SAID ABOVE. WB DONT EVEN KNOW US SMALL APPLES FANS WITH ARGUMENTS AND QUESTIONS. THEY JUST SEE THE NUMBERS. AND THATS WHAT SHADOW CHRONICLES GENERATED. WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT, THEY WILL SAY SOMETHING AT COMIC CON. USUALLY LIKE A YEAR BEFORE ITS REALESE AT A WB PANEL.

4.And can you provide sources for all of this that were made later than 2002 and not made by someone who doesn't work for the company anymore?

HG BEEN TIGHT WITH ITS PAPERS FROM THOSE LEDIGATIONS. NO ONE HAS SEEN THEM AND ONLY TOM BATEMAN, EX EMPLOYEE FROM HG CAN TALK. BUT PROBLEM IS IT WILL ONLY SERVE HIS PURPOSE OF MAKING HG LOOK BAD. BUT HE KNOWS THAT HG COULD HAVE USED THE MACROSS DESIGNS IN HSADOW CHRONICLES AND FOUGHT FOR IT. YOU WOULD HAVE TO ASK JASONC, SINCE HE KNOWS THIS TRUTH AS WELL. YOUR ONLY SOURCE IS TOM BATEMA. BUT WE HAVE KINDA PARTED WAYS IN THESE SUCH MATERS AS I SUPPORT ROBOTECH AND NOT HIM.

HERE IS MY ARGUMENT AND THANKS FOR ASKING...

HG BAUGHT THESE RIGHTS OUTSIDE OF JAPAN BACK IN THE DAY.. BW SAW WHAT HG WAS DOING AND STARTED THEIR OWN LEDIGATION IN JAPAN. PROBLEM IS NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THOSE DOCUMENTS HOLD. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE HEAR ABOUT IT FROM CATALIST AND I DONT KNOW IF THEY WILL COME OUT AND REALESE THE PAPER THEY GOT. WHAT THEY CALL A SEACE AND DESIST ORDER.

THE QUESTIONS I ASKED TEH LAWYERS WAS, WHAT IF THEY GOT THIS SHOW DOWNRIGHT, AND NO ONE HAD COPYRIGHTED TEH MATERIAL. REPLIE IS, IT COULD HAVE BECOME PUBLIC DOMAIN AFTER A CERTAIN TIME OF EXPERATION TO THE ANIMATION. BUT YOU HAVE TO GO INTO EVERY COUNTRY OF INTREST AND SET IT UP. WICH HG DID. WHERE THEN HG COULD CLAIM IT AND IF NO ONE FIGHTS IT AFTER A CERTAIN TIME.. HG CAN EXCERSIE THEIR RIGHT OF OWNERSHIP FROM THESE DESIGNS BEING USED.

WE KNOW BW PUT IN RIGHTS TO THE ANIATION IN 2002 ANDJUDGMENT WELL AFTER 2004. 20 YEARS AFTER TATSU SOLD IT WITHOUT NO ONE CLAIMING COPYRIGHT. HG SAW THIS AND BEING SMART COULD HAVE JUMPED IN TO RIGHTS TO TEH MACROSS SDF SERIES OUTSIDE OF JAPAN. SINCE IT WAS TO LATE FOR BW TO GO AFTER IT OUTSIDE OF JAPAN..

BW HAS MORE OF A CHANCE TO LOSE SINCE THESE LAWYERS ALSO TOLD ME THAT THEY WILL SIGHT THE ORIGINAL CONTTRACT BEFORE THE COPYRIGHTS WAS SET.

WHERE AS HG BEAT JAPAN TO TEH PUNCH.

[Wanzerfan]

They didn't buy (or steal) the name when Revell folded. The name was forced on HG by Revell BECAUSE Revell had the Macross kits. After the series aired, Revell started putting out more kits that were directly connected to the series (like the SDF-1).

No offense intended, but where do you get your information? Most of it appears to be wrong...

Nowhere, just an assumption I made, and looks like a worng one at that. I just have a bone to pick with Harmony Gold (and with Tommy Yune in particular) because of the direction that company took with the franchise in the latest comic line. Jim Lee certainly made a bad decision when he decided to sell Wildstorm Publishing to Warner Bros. (at least he would've given the series the needed kick in the a$$, believe you me).

[Funkenstein]

Some one should just Fan dub the Macross shows that arent localized. There's plenty of people dong anime abridged shows on Youtube, Im sure theres people who would do some Macross too.Its not like HG can do anything about it, nor would Studio Nu and Big West care. It would make the Macross Frontier license even more lucrative if more people knew of MF and started buying those delicious PVC figures and the awesome 1/72 kits.

[Freiflug88]

It's not the caps, it's that I can't figure out what you're saying most of the time.

Been watching Dana's shower scenes one too many times, have we?

Why watch Dana's shower scenes? They are no better then then the Minmay shower scenes in Macross. I'd rather watch all the good stuff Carl removed from Megazone 23.

NEVER SEEN THE ORIGINAL MOSPEADA..

Dana is Jeanne from the original Southern Cross. You don't even have to see the original Southern Cross though, HG brought back the Dana nudity when they edited together the Robotech Remastered set from stock footage.

Some one should just Fan dub the Macross shows that arent localized. There's plenty of people dong anime abridged shows on Youtube, Im sure theres people who would do some Macross too.Its not like HG can do anything about it, nor would Studio Nu and Big West care. It would make the Macross Frontier license even more lucrative if more people knew of MF and started buying those delicious PVC figures and the awesome 1/72 kits.

Fan dubs would make the license much less lucrative. If numerous anime fans are enjoying Macross fandubs for free on youtube, why would companies like ADV and Viz have an incentive fight for Macross licenses and pay professional VAs to dub them? Besides Frontier already seems to be the most popular Macross yet with newer Anime fans if all those fansub and hentai doujin downloads are any accurate indication.

Edited August 16, 2009 by Freiflug88

[Duke Togo]

(YOU HATE HIGH CAPS, SKIP THIS POST)

Better yet, I'll put you on ignore. You have nothing to add to this conversation, and you "information" is a joke.

[Macross007]

FROM A GOOD PERSON ON THIS THREAD THAT WANTS TO REALLY DEBATE. I WILL POST WHAT WE BEEN TALKING.

(YOU HATE HIGH CAPS, SKIP THIS POST)

WHAT I SAY IS NOT INSIDE SOURCE FROM HG SO I JUST JUSTIFY WHAT I KNOW WITH WHAT IS OUT THERE AND WHAT I HAVE COLLECTED HERE, LONG TIME AGO WITH GOOD DEBATERS, AND OFF THREAD. INLCUDING LAWYERS (MIND THAT THEY GO BY WHAT I KNOW), PEOPLE IN THE INDUSTRY HERE IN HOLLYWOOD, AT CONS AND EVENTS.

1. BW/TATSU/STUDIO NUE IN THE EARLY 80’S CREATED MACROSS. WHO DID WHAT IS IRRELEVANT BUT WHAT MATTERS THE MOST IS THE FINAL DEAL OR SAID CONTRACT. WHO SIGNED WHAT AND WHO KEPT WHAT I DON’T KNOW.

2.AT THE TIME WE KNOW THERE WAS A LINE DRAWN ON WHERE THESE RIGHTS WOULD GO TO THE SPECIFICS OF SDF MACROSS. THAT FINAL DEAL/CONTRACT IS NOT KNOW OR NEVER BEEN PUBLISHED OUTSIDE OF HG, BW, STUDIO NUE OR TATSU. JUST THAT WHATEVER BW DOES IS KEPT INSIDE OF JAPAN AND EVERYTHING ELSE OUTSIDE OF JAPAN TATSU KEEPS. (NO SPECIFICS IS KNOW). (ONLY FANDOM DEBATES)

3.AT THE TIME NONE OF THE PARTY INVOLVED COPYRIGHTED ANYTHING OR GOT DOWN TO SPECIFICS. HG GETS RIGHST THROUGH TATSU AND LATER HG EXPANDED THEM THROUGH ROBOTECH AND IN THE 90’S WENT AND STARTED CORNERING THE MARKET WITH INTERNATIONAL RIGHTS. WHAT THEN WAS A CONTRACT WITH TATSU EXCLUDING JAPAN.

4.MOVE TO YEAR 2002 AND LATER, BW DECIDES TO GO TO COURT TO FIGHT OVER SPECIFIC RIGHTS AND COPYRIGTS.. JAPAN HANDS BW SOME ELEMENTS AND TATSU OTHER ELEMENTS.

PROBLEM WITH 4 IS WITH BW AND TATSU INITIAL CONTRACT HG WAS ABLE TO GET INTERNATIONAL RIGHTS EVEN BEFORE A JUDGMENT FROM THE JAPANESE COURTS. HG HAS RIGHTS THROUGH THE FIRST CONTRACT. SOMETHIG THAT BW AND ALL PARTYS INVOLVED FAILED TO NEGOTIATE INTO SPECIFICS.

BEST WAY I CAN GIVE AN EXAMPLE IS,

YOU ARE A RENTER IN AN APARTMENT COMPLEX. YOU SIGN A DEAL WITH OWNER OR LANDLORD. YOUR DEAL IS SET REGARDLES OF NEW CONTARCT WITH NEW RENETERS 20 YEARS LATER. YOUR CONTRACT IS GOLDEN TILL YOU LET IT EXPIRE OR MOVE OUT. IF LANDLORD DECIDES TO DO CHANGES TO THE COMPLEX YOU RENTING, THE LANDLORD IS STILL BINDED BY ITS INITIAL CONTRACT. WE ALL KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY BREAK THAT CONTRACT AND ONE TAKES IT TO COURT.

SAME HERE WITH BW. EVEN THOUGHT THEY HAVE RIGHTS WICH ONLY PERTAIN TO JAPAN (AS OF 2002 AND LATER), SINCE HG NEVER WENT INTO JAPAN TO EXPAND ON SAID RIGHTS TO INTERNATIONAL MARKET BW WAS ABLE TO TAKE JAPAN AND HG WAS ABLE TO TAKE ALL OF OUTSIDE JAPAN WITH SAID INITIAL CONTRACT. WHY THOSE PAPERS THAT BW GOT MEANS NOTHING OUTSIDE OF JAPAN. HG ALREADY EXPANDED BY RIGHT WITH ITS FIRST CONTRACT WICH OF COURSE COURTS OUTSIDE OF JAPAN WILL FIRST SITE. DEAL IS A DEAL TILL HG DOES NOT RENEW OR GIVES UP A INTERNATIONAL MARKET. BW HAS COPYRIGHT AS OF LATE 2002 TO EXPAND ON FROM THERE. BUT THEY STILL HAVE TO HONOR THE FIRST CONTRACT RIGHST THAT HG HAS BEEN GIVIN AND EXPANDED BY RIGHT IN THE 80'S AND 90'S.

BUT THE NEW JUDGMENT OF JAPAN DOES NOT BREAK THAT FIRST DEAL WICH BW NEVER EXPANDED ON AND WENT AND SIGNED CONTRACTS WICH BECOMES THE CATCH 22. WISH WE ALL KNEW WHAT THOSE DEALS ARE.

JASONC IS RIGHT IN ONE SENCE. IF WB WANTS TO GO INTO THE JAPANESE MARKET, THE MACROSS RLAM WOULD HAVE TO CHANGE CONSIDERABLE OR WB HAS TO FRONT UP SOME ROYALTIES TO BW. IT’S A WAIT AND SEE.

20 YEARS MACROSS WENT WITHOUT RIGHTS AND HG JUST STARTED PICKING IT UP IN THE 90’S. THAT FIRST CONTRACT IS SET IN STONE SINCE BW SIGNED THOSE DEALS WAY BACK. GET THOSE DOCUMENTS, THEN YOU KNOW WHAT HG HAS AND DON’T HAVE. TILL THEN, BW IS AT A LOSS OUTSIDE OF JAPAN. AND BW KNOWS THAT AND WHY THEY WILL NOT RAISE A FINGER OUTSIDE OF JAPAN. THEY HAVE MADE NO MOVE SINCE 2002 AND AFTER. THEY DID PUT THAT PAPER UP. THAT MEANS NOTHING TO HG. BUT THEN TAKEN DOWN.

ONE THING IN HOLLYWOOD IS KNOWN, A RLAM IS AN EXPANSION IN MERCHANDISING. JUST THINK OF IT AS ANOTHER ROBOTECH VIDEO GAME. ONLY AS AN RLAM.

THERE. I PUT IN SHORT. WHAT I STAND BY AND SO FAR NOTHING HAS CHANGED OUTSIDE OF JAPAN SINCE THE JUDGMENT CAME DOWN.

THOSE THAT WANT TO CONTINUE TO DEBATE.. FEEL FREE TO GO AHEAD. I CAN DO IT OUTSIDE OF FORUM AS WELL.

AND I WAS ALSO PERVY TO THE SAME SOURCE AS JASONC WAS. JUST THAT TO MANY FRIENDS INVLVED THAT I JUST WANT TO KEEP THE TRUCE WITH THE GUYS AT MW, SOME EX RT.MEMBERS, AND FEW POSTERS IN THIS THREAD. AND I KNOW THE BAD ONES DONT SPEAK FOR THE FANDOM.

SEE YOU GUYS LATER.

HEHEHE

Man .. It's so baddly written that I can't even understand what the guy is trying to say ... And the f*cking ABUSE of the cap lock key does not make the situation easier.

Edited August 16, 2009 by Macross007

[Funkenstein]

I got a question. Now that MechWarrior (5) is coming out, does that mean that the developers need permission from Harmony Gold to include the Warhammer, or would they go through Big West or something entirely different? As far as I could tell, it still looks very similar to the Tomahawk.

[Funkenstein]

Fan dubs would make the license much less lucrative. If numerous anime fans are enjoying Macross fandubs for free on youtube, why would companies like ADV and Viz have an incentive fight for Macross licenses and pay professional VAs to dub them? Besides Frontier already seems to be the most popular Macross yet with newer Anime fans if all those fansub and hentai doujin downloads are any accurate indication.

ADV or VIZ will likely never get the license to any modern Macross series till way after Harmony Gold disappears. Fan dubs would just be for fun anyway, like the parody fan dub of the first episode of Macross thats on youtube

[Gubaba]

Nowhere, just an assumption I made, and looks like a worng one at that.

You might want to make that clearer, then. Saying "it seems that Harmony Gold bought (or stole) the name when Revell folded" makes it sound like you heard the information somewhere, not that it's something you came up with yourself.

There are enough lies, damn lies, and statistics HG spokesman utterances going around already without adding more.

[Seto Kaiba]

Man .. It's so baddly written that I can't even understand what the guy is trying to say ... And the f*cking ABUSE of the cap lock key does not make the situation easier.

If you actually muddle through that mess he calls an argument, you'll quickly discover that it's nothing more than a mix of his opinion stated as fact and information he claims to have gotten from "industry lawyers" he can't name, who have nothing to do with Harmony Gold or Warner Bros, and who didn't have access to any of the hard evidence.

You could manure several acres of farmland with the contents of MEMO's posts.

Edited August 16, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[akt_m]

In the end if HG use the VF-1 valkyrie, will just prove more their lack of any talent.

I watched mospeada and couldn't believe that even the SONG NAME they couldn't create their own. At the original opening he sings "lonely soldier boy", when i went to youtube to search for it i found that there is a RT song with the same name.

[Gubaba]

In the end if HG use the VF-1 valkyrie, will just prove more their lack of any talent.

I watched mospeada and couldn't believe that even the SONG NAME they couldn't create their own. At the original opening he sings "lonely soldier boy", when i went to youtube to search for it i found that there is a RT song with the same name.

Hang on a sec...I always thought the main criticism against RT was that it changed too many things (at least, that was always MY problem with it)...attacking it for keeping something the same seems a little unfair...

[taksraven]

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I just fixed up his text so it makes more sense, enjoy!

Taksraven

[akt_m]

Hang on a sec...I always thought the main criticism against RT was that it changed too many things (at least, that was always MY problem with it)...attacking it for keeping something the same seems a little unfair...

The song is totally diferent, i never watched robotech, they just got the same name from the chorus of the Mospeada OP. I mean they can't even make their own song name.

Edited August 16, 2009 by akt_m

[Radd]

(YOU HATE HIGH CAPS, SKIP THIS POST)

It's not that people hate all-caps, it's just that using all caps to write a book, magazine article, or web post looks really kinda silly. It's generally a (useless) tactic to make one's post stand out from a crowd (akin to "shouting down opponents") and generally employed by younger, less rational contributers. More often than not, it speaks negatively of the person doing it.

4.MOVE TO YEAR 2002 AND LATER, BW DECIDES TO GO TO COURT TO FIGHT OVER SPECIFIC RIGHTS AND COPYRIGTS.. JAPAN HANDS BW SOME ELEMENTS AND TATSU OTHER ELEMENTS.

PROBLEM WITH 4 IS WITH BW AND TATSU INITIAL CONTRACT HG WAS ABLE TO GET INTERNATIONAL RIGHTS EVEN BEFORE A JUDGMENT FROM THE JAPANESE COURTS. HG HAS RIGHTS THROUGH THE FIRST CONTRACT. SOMETHIG THAT BW AND ALL PARTYS INVOLVED FAILED TO NEGOTIATE INTO SPECIFICS.

BEST WAY I CAN GIVE AN EXAMPLE IS,

YOU ARE A RENTER IN AN APARTMENT COMPLEX. YOU SIGN A DEAL WITH OWNER OR LANDLORD. YOUR DEAL IS SET REGARDLES OF NEW CONTARCT WITH NEW RENETERS 20 YEARS LATER. YOUR CONTRACT IS GOLDEN TILL YOU LET IT EXPIRE OR MOVE OUT. IF LANDLORD DECIDES TO DO CHANGES TO THE COMPLEX YOU RENTING, THE LANDLORD IS STILL BINDED BY ITS INITIAL CONTRACT. WE ALL KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY BREAK THAT CONTRACT AND ONE TAKES IT TO COURT.

Here's where the argument falls apart. BW did not deal with HG. HG dealt with Tatsunoko. The court decision did not "change" the contract between the two, it clarified the rights of the individual parties as observed through the eyes of the law. If Tatsunoko sold HG rights that they themselves did not own, then yes it does affect HG. HG does not have those rights and their only course of action would be to work with BW on BW's terms, or sue Tatsunoko for damages, which of course they don't want to do.

I'll borrow your rental analogy. You rent a room. Turns out, the "landlord" didn't actually own the building, and had no right to rent the room to you. Uh-oh. The actual owners come around to find you in their building. You try and argue with the real owners that they can't "change the deal" and you're going to be very disappointed, as well as homeless.

20 YEARS MACROSS WENT WITHOUT RIGHTS AND HG JUST STARTED PICKING IT UP IN THE 90’S. THAT FIRST CONTRACT IS SET IN STONE SINCE BW SIGNED THOSE DEALS WAY BACK. GET THOSE DOCUMENTS, THEN YOU KNOW WHAT HG HAS AND DON’T HAVE. TILL THEN, BW IS AT A LOSS OUTSIDE OF JAPAN. AND BW KNOWS THAT AND WHY THEY WILL NOT RAISE A FINGER OUTSIDE OF JAPAN. THEY HAVE MADE NO MOVE SINCE 2002 AND AFTER. THEY DID PUT THAT PAPER UP. THAT MEANS NOTHING TO HG. BUT THEN TAKEN DOWN.

It's just as likely that BW doesn't see the north american market as being worth the legal battle. This is a tactic that is used in Hollywood, as I'm sure you know. A company threatens a bogus lawsuit to fend off a competitor. It doesn't matter that the person threatening has no legal standing, it will still cost a lot of time and money to get it all cleared up. In Hollywood, the usual outcome is the studio being threatened with legal action either backs off to avoid the hassle, or settles with the company tossing around bogus claims.

ONE THING IN HOLLYWOOD IS KNOWN, A RLAM IS AN EXPANSION IN MERCHANDISING. JUST THINK OF IT AS ANOTHER ROBOTECH VIDEO GAME. ONLY AS AN RLAM.

That is an absurd statement. There's no polite way to say it. A movie or a videogame is a derivative, not merchandise. The thing is, videogames (like comic books) are considered merchandise under American law. Movies, however, are correctly categorized as a derivative work and there is simply no credible way to argue that it would somehow fall under the category of "merchandise".

What it all comes down to is what the companies in question do. HG has been conspicuously backing away from Macross. The stories, designs, characters, everything. An odd thing to do, considering it's the most popular part of the franchise. BW has been neglecting the north american market. It seems both companies are biding their time, avoiding a potentially costly legal showdown.

So, while BW hasn't budged. HG has been backing down. At the very least, we can infer that HG does not have all the rights they've been claiming and that the Tokyo Circuit court case has affected their actions, which beforehand were more aggressive.

Beyond what the actual companies in question do, everyone we argue here is pretty much moot.

[Keith]

Ok, I'll play.

FROM A GOOD PERSON ON THIS THREAD THAT WANTS TO REALLY DEBATE. I WILL POST WHAT WE BEEN TALKING.

(YOU HATE HIGH CAPS, SKIP THIS POST)

Protip: using bigger letters doesn't make you "right," just an ignorant person at a keyboard.

WHAT I SAY IS NOT INSIDE SOURCE FROM HG SO I JUST JUSTIFY WHAT I KNOW WITH WHAT IS OUT THERE AND WHAT I HAVE COLLECTED HERE, LONG TIME AGO WITH GOOD DEBATERS, AND OFF THREAD. INLCUDING LAWYERS (MIND THAT THEY GO BY WHAT I KNOW), PEOPLE IN THE INDUSTRY HERE IN HOLLYWOOD, AT CONS AND EVENTS.

Larry H. Parker? Mayhaps the paralegals at 1800-THE-LAW2??

1. BW/TATSU/STUDIO NUE IN THE EARLY 80’S CREATED MACROSS. WHO DID WHAT IS IRRELEVANT BUT WHAT MATTERS THE MOST IS THE FINAL DEAL OR SAID CONTRACT. WHO SIGNED WHAT AND WHO KEPT WHAT I DON’T KNOW.

Fallacy #1: Who did what was at the core of the matter, and the court case in Japan. Who did what decided who got the rights to what. If you're claiming you don't know, then you're ignoring the facts that have been out for years.

-Big West/Studio Nue created the story, character designs, scenario, music, mecha designs, etc. Tatsunoko was brought to supply cash, and contracted out some of the animation work due to Artland not being able to handle hte workload. The terms of the agreement were international distribution of the completed animation, and merch rights outside of Japan.

2.AT THE TIME WE KNOW THERE WAS A LINE DRAWN ON WHERE THESE RIGHTS WOULD GO TO THE SPECIFICS OF SDF MACROSS. THAT FINAL DEAL/CONTRACT IS NOT KNOW OR NEVER BEEN PUBLISHED OUTSIDE OF HG, BW, STUDIO NUE OR TATSU. JUST THAT WHATEVER BW DOES IS KEPT INSIDE OF JAPAN AND EVERYTHING ELSE OUTSIDE OF JAPAN TATSU KEEPS. (NO SPECIFICS IS KNOW). (ONLY FANDOM DEBATES)

The terms were officially announced during the tral years ago, and upheld by the Japanese court system.

-Big West Owns all story/scenario, character designs, mecha designs, music, etc, and as such has right to continue making new properties based on Macross.

-Tatsunoko owns copies of the completed animation, and has rights to distribute it internationally, and merchandise based on it.

4.MOVE TO YEAR 2002 AND LATER, BW DECIDES TO GO TO COURT TO FIGHT OVER SPECIFIC RIGHTS AND COPYRIGTS.. JAPAN HANDS BW SOME ELEMENTS AND TATSU OTHER ELEMENTS.

Pay attention children:

-BW all intellectual property

-Tatsunoko international distribution of the animation they helped pay to produce, and merchandising rights for itemsi ncluded in that animation. The end.

PROBLEM WITH 4 IS WITH BW AND TATSU INITIAL CONTRACT HG WAS ABLE TO GET INTERNATIONAL RIGHTS EVEN BEFORE A JUDGMENT FROM THE JAPANESE COURTS. HG HAS RIGHTS THROUGH THE FIRST CONTRACT. SOMETHIG THAT BW AND ALL PARTYS INVOLVED FAILED TO NEGOTIATE INTO SPECIFICS.

Incorrect, read above, Japanese courts upheld the terms of the original contract between Big West & Tatsunoko.

BEST WAY I CAN GIVE AN EXAMPLE IS,

YOU ARE A RENTER IN AN APARTMENT COMPLEX. YOU SIGN A DEAL WITH OWNER OR LANDLORD. YOUR DEAL IS SET REGARDLES OF NEW CONTARCT WITH NEW RENETERS 20 YEARS LATER. YOUR CONTRACT IS GOLDEN TILL YOU LET IT EXPIRE OR MOVE OUT. IF LANDLORD DECIDES TO DO CHANGES TO THE COMPLEX YOU RENTING, THE LANDLORD IS STILL BINDED BY ITS INITIAL CONTRACT. WE ALL KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY BREAK THAT CONTRACT AND ONE TAKES IT TO COURT.

SAME HERE WITH BW. EVEN THOUGHT THEY HAVE RIGHTS WICH ONLY PERTAIN TO JAPAN (AS OF 2002 AND LATER), SINCE HG NEVER WENT INTO JAPAN TO EXPAND ON SAID RIGHTS TO INTERNATIONAL MARKET BW WAS ABLE TO TAKE JAPAN AND HG WAS ABLE TO TAKE ALL OF OUTSIDE JAPAN WITH SAID INITIAL CONTRACT. WHY THOSE PAPERS THAT BW GOT MEANS NOTHING OUTSIDE OF JAPAN. HG ALREADY EXPANDED BY RIGHT WITH ITS FIRST CONTRACT WICH OF COURSE COURTS OUTSIDE OF JAPAN WILL FIRST SITE. DEAL IS A DEAL TILL HG DOES NOT RENEW OR GIVES UP A INTERNATIONAL MARKET. BW HAS COPYRIGHT AS OF LATE 2002 TO EXPAND ON FROM THERE. BUT THEY STILL HAVE TO HONOR THE FIRST CONTRACT RIGHST THAT HG HAS BEEN GIVIN AND EXPANDED BY RIGHT IN THE 80'S AND 90'S.

Innaccurate analogy is equal parts innacurate & poor. A Better analogy would be:

You make a cartoon, and it runs over budget. In order to finance it, you find an outside investor to finance in lieu of international distribution rights. The financer finds someone who wants to distribute it, and that company mutilates your cartoon into a pale shambles of its former self, mixing it with 2 lessor cartoons in the process. Boosh!

BUT THE NEW JUDGMENT OF JAPAN DOES NOT BREAK THAT FIRST DEAL WICH BW NEVER EXPANDED ON AND WENT AND SIGNED CONTRACTS WICH BECOMES THE CATCH 22. WISH WE ALL KNEW WHAT THOSE DEALS ARE.

Yeah, wish you knew how to read & do research. Also wish you knew how to turn off your caps lock. Mayhaps you downloaded some type of capslock virus?

JASONC IS RIGHT IN ONE SENCE. IF WB WANTS TO GO INTO THE JAPANESE MARKET, THE MACROSS RLAM WOULD HAVE TO CHANGE CONSIDERABLE OR WB HAS TO FRONT UP SOME ROYALTIES TO BW. IT’S A WAIT AND SEE.

20 YEARS MACROSS WENT WITHOUT RIGHTS AND HG JUST STARTED PICKING IT UP IN THE 90’S. THAT FIRST CONTRACT IS SET IN STONE SINCE BW SIGNED THOSE DEALS WAY BACK. GET THOSE DOCUMENTS, THEN YOU KNOW WHAT HG HAS AND DON’T HAVE. TILL THEN, BW IS AT A LOSS OUTSIDE OF JAPAN. AND BW KNOWS THAT AND WHY THEY WILL NOT RAISE A FINGER OUTSIDE OF JAPAN. THEY HAVE MADE NO MOVE SINCE 2002 AND AFTER. THEY DID PUT THAT PAPER UP. THAT MEANS NOTHING TO HG. BUT THEN TAKEN DOWN.

ONE THING IN HOLLYWOOD IS KNOWN, A RLAM IS AN EXPANSION IN MERCHANDISING. JUST THINK OF IT AS ANOTHER ROBOTECH VIDEO GAME. ONLY AS AN RLAM.

THERE. I PUT IN SHORT. WHAT I STAND BY AND SO FAR NOTHING HAS CHANGED OUTSIDE OF JAPAN SINCE THE JUDGMENT CAME DOWN.

THOSE THAT WANT TO CONTINUE TO DEBATE.. FEEL FREE TO GO AHEAD. I CAN DO IT OUTSIDE OF FORUM AS WELL.

AND I WAS ALSO PERVY TO THE SAME SOURCE AS JASONC WAS. JUST THAT TO MANY FRIENDS INVLVED THAT I JUST WANT TO KEEP THE TRUCE WITH THE GUYS AT MW, SOME EX RT.MEMBERS, AND FEW POSTERS IN THIS THREAD. AND I KNOW THE BAD ONES DONT SPEAK FOR THE FANDOM.

SEE YOU GUYS LATER.

HEHEHE

Bottom line, If Tatsunoko (and by proxy HG) owned the rights to the intellectual property side of Macross, then they'd be pimping sequals out the ass. Robotech II: The Sentinels would have used Macross designs in "all new footage," instead of stock footage, and "The Shadow Chronicles" wouldn't have made every effort "not" to mention Macross in any way shape or form, including the making of documentary which for some reason pretends that all Macross is baed on Mospeada. HG wouldn't have to rely on video games & comic books (which fall under Tatsunokos' merch contract) to make new material including Macross characters & mecha designs. HG woudn't have to psusyfoot around the issue with doubletalk & ignoring questions.

If Tatsunoko owned Macross, then through them, HG would be able to demand masters be sent for Plus, II, DYRL, FB 2012, 7, Zero, & Frontier, so HG could distribute them domestically with no questions asked. IF Tatsunoko owned Macross, you wouldn't have to look at Tommy Yune's masculine fanart big tittied static-animated POS that is Shadow Chronicles. You'd be watching Macross Frontier (in some form?) on domstic television.

But instead, all you can see now is Sharon, all you can hear now is Sharon. You can do nothing, nothing at all!

If Big West didn't own the intellectual properties of Macross, Mr. Bilra wouldn't have a picture of Minmay in his locket, Basara & Mylene wouldn't have been in a remake of DYRL, there woudln't be a VF-1 on the roof of Alto's school, Ranka wouldn't be singing "Watashi no Kare wa Piloto".

I don't mind you being an ignorant robotech fan, god know's they're dying breed, and need all the members they can get, but really, do the right thing, and bug HG to make you some original material, and leave the Macross franchise alone. Your kind doesn't like awesome hot blooded mecha action with fanservice tits that bounce & great music. You prefer shitty dubs & long winded expositin that insults the intelligence of 5 year olds. You prefer Last Starfighter era CG animation put to the animation of Korea's C class production houses. You prefer bad fanfiction novels with magic hats.

Your kind arenm't anime fans, and as such, stay out of the matters of anime fans. If you don't like us trolling your boards, then take it up with HG, and tell them to stop trolling our franchise. If want to come over here and troll with your capslock on, then by all means, expect me to spam you with Firebomber lyrics, that is when I'm not too busy watching new productions based on my favorite shows. As hard as that may be for you to comprehend.