HG and Robotech Debates

[Seto Kaiba]

I believe it was Rem, Zor's clone that got into that trashy American 24 hr 7-11 version of a fake Minmay. Robotech lost a lot of points when I read that book, but it's been a lonnnnng time.

Yeah, I think you're right... it was Rem who knocked up Minmei as part of the whole time-travel shenanigans, turning the entire series into one massive predestination paradox. (The sick part is that it was Carl Macek's idea, and if everything had gone according to plan, would have been animated)

Edited September 11, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Einherjar]

I believe it was Rem, Zor's clone that got into that trashy American 24 hr 7-11 version of a fake Minmay. Robotech lost a lot of points when I read that book, but it's been a lonnnnng time.

Just curious, by the end of the novels which characters died or actually survived through the entire storyline?

Edited September 11, 2009 by Einherjar

[Keith]

Just curious, by the end of the novels which characters died or actually survived through the entire storyline?

After the time travel incident, they were all carbon frozen underneath the Macross bridge, and died when Kamj...khyron rammed the Daedelus arm.

[VFTF1]

Kaifun was killed by General Edwards during that fight over the gun where they were arguing about who was better at sex with Minmey. I know that because I have that particular novel. It also features Rick calling Lisa "pussy cat" or something to that tune.

Speaking of which - this is one thing that is so superior in Robotech when comparred to Macross - namely the intellectual level of the dialogue and the things people discuss.

In Macross, you usually get a lot of gushy-wushy mumbo-jumbo with big words that try to be all filosofical and stuff but it just means nothing. Or maybe it's like that Hinduism stuff they have in Asia or something.

Anyways - in Robotech, the dialogue is always so realistic and cool. I could give examples, which I think I will soon. I've got three Robotech Novels (I had all of them, but I gave most away to charity and sold others on the net to pay for my car [they are pretty popular]) and will dig through them to give you guys some choice quotes.

Hopefully this will help convince the naysayers and Macross drones about the genius of Robotech.

Pete

[terry the lone wolf]

Oh no wonder Tommy started the Prelude series with Kyle being shot and not the reason why he was shot by Edwards. I haven't read the novels but I do remember Minmay dating Johnathan Wolff during some of the early Sentinels comics. Though, I did kinda dig that Minmay became the mother of Robotech.

[Roy Focker]

I'm just so glad that for the Shadow Chronicles they adapted a lot from the "End of Circle" and prior "Sentinels" storyline instead of just trying to forget all though wonderful ideas.

[Whamhammer]

http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category...6158602zPRHPzfR

At the 17 minute mark if you can't access veoh, episode 11 "First Contact"

I'll look for another link.

Allright, I am big enough to admitt when I am incorrect. After watching that point of the episode, he did say that. What he means can still be argued.

In Robotech, exposure to the Flower of Life did bring about effects such as hallucinations and other mind altering effects. Points of refference would be Dana's exposure as well as Rand's exposure, both had a hallucengenic/mind altering reaction and had changes of thier understanding of situations that would seem to be brought about by an outside sourceof knowlesge. Maybe Dolza's assertion of effect of protoculture (even a few moments later) is that the Flower of Life and its byproducts brought about behavioral traits in the Zentraedi that the Robotech Masters filtered out by minimal exposure to protoculture/flower of life and able to being able to act out on reactions of the past . Male and female units being seperated (I know this is standard in many militaries for the same reason as the Zents did , but possible for a more intense fear of reaction.) The Zentraedi didnt maintain their ships , maybe because they were disallowed to avoid being accidentally exposed to protoculture . This would explain a lack of maintenance of a military vessel. This goes against typical known military beliefs of being very strict on maintenance on equipment , albeit Ive never heard of alien militaries, but would believe they would do the same unless they have a very good reason.

[Funkenstein]

Or, they mixed up Macross Protoculture with Robotech protoculture.

[sketchley]

Guys - are you brain dead?

The most unique thing about Robotech is - let me count the way:

1. Transforming airplanes which turn into robots (vehicles turning into robots NEVER was done before! It's the first!)

2. A mature story line where characters die (it's mature because they die - death = maturity)

3. An epic story line where all 85 episodes are perfectly connected by a linear well thought out plot (most cartoons couldn't even connect two episodes)

4. The first Space-based science fiction odyssey

I could go on.

In any case - suffice it to say that if it wasn't for the huge success of Robotech and its' massive impact on the imaginations of people everywhere, you guys wouldn't have any Macross to enjoy.

Pete

Don't forget:

5. having an international crew

6. having a female commander

[VF5SS]

Or because apparently Macek watched Southern Cross with the sound turned off he never anticipated that the Protozor flowers were meant to have a symbiotic relationship with the Zor and thus it totally messed up his whole idea about Protoculture being a fuel.

All they ever did in Robotech was tie together all the Macguffins until they achieved some kind of super macguffin that does anything you want it to.

And WTF is this about "Rands" exposure to protoculture? I've only watched Mospeada but when Rey has his hallucination it due to a lack of water.

Edited September 11, 2009 by VF5SS

[akt_m]

Allright, I am big enough to admitt when I am incorrect. After watching that point of the episode, he did say that. What he means can still be argued.

In Robotech, exposure to the Flower of Life did bring about effects such as hallucinations and other mind altering effects. Points of refference would be Dana's exposure as well as Rand's exposure, both had a hallucengenic/mind altering reaction and had changes of thier understanding of situations that would seem to be brought about by an outside sourceof knowlesge. Maybe Dolza's assertion of effect of protoculture (even a few moments later) is that the Flower of Life and its byproducts brought about behavioral traits in the Zentraedi that the Robotech Masters filtered out by minimal exposure to protoculture/flower of life and able to being able to act out on reactions of the past . Male and female units being seperated (I know this is standard in many militaries for the same reason as the Zents did , but possible for a more intense fear of reaction.) The Zentraedi didnt maintain their ships , maybe because they were disallowed to avoid being accidentally exposed to protoculture . This would explain a lack of maintenance of a military vessel. This goes against typical known military beliefs of being very strict on maintenance on equipment , albeit Ive never heard of alien militaries, but would believe they would do the same unless they have a very good reason.

That's a good parody of those hardcore fans.

Edited September 11, 2009 by akt_m

[jenius]

Or because apparently Macek watched Southern Cross with the sound turned off he never anticipated that the Protozor flowers were meant to have a symbiotic relationship with the Zor and thus it totally messed up his whole idea about Protoculture being a fuel.

All they ever did in Robotech was tie together all the Macguffins until they achieved some kind of super macguffin that does anything you want it to.

And WTF is this about "Rands" exposure to protoculture? I've only watched Mospeada but when Rey has his hallucination it due to a lack of water.

Robotech re-wrote the scene. I haven't watched in a long time but I believe the animation shows sand blowing across the desert before Ray falls. In Robotech the sand was said to be "spores from the flower of life" and it's breathing the spores that give Rand his dream more than it is the dehydration.

[VF5SS]

But its just sand! So does that mean if someone in robotech cracks open an HBT canister and huff the magic gasoline they will get the most awesome high ever?

[Einherjar]

Robotech re-wrote the scene. I haven't watched in a long time but I believe the animation shows sand blowing across the desert before Ray falls. In Robotech the sand was said to be "spores from the flower of life" and it's breathing the spores that give Rand his dream more than it is the dehydration.

Gosh, they could have attributed anything that happened on screen to Protoculture if they wanted.

[VF5SS]

That episode was just filler in Mospeada anyway. I think they intended to setup an Aisha/Rey/Stick love triangle but it never panned out. Also I can't shake the feeling some writer at Tatsunoko just want to do his own version of Macross's Phantasm episode.

[Jasonc]

Man, the power of those Shrooms,,, I mean, Protoculture. It boost your Verytech, powers your ships fold systems, creates life, and puts your libido in high gear!

On a more serious note, a lot of what Robotech did back then to make the series tie in was pretty good. Like Whamhammer explained a good portion of the questionable things can be explained off fairly decently. As a kid, it didn't really matter, cause we were all getting something different for its time. As of now, I've tried to do away with explaining it all just to make it fit, because there are some areas where it simply doesn't. It also doesn't help that they continue that confusing way of things with RTSC, i.e. why is Maia not named Aurora? I know in Macross Max and Milia had what, 7 daughters, but RTSC just comes out of left field with this new daughter that has no back story. She's just there. In trying to be differnt (somewhat) from the originals, they sucked out a good possible backstory. Don't know if it would've saved the movie (probably not), but at least there would've been something to fall back on.

[RavenHawk]

Robotech re-wrote the scene. I haven't watched in a long time but I believe the animation shows sand blowing across the desert before Ray falls. In Robotech the sand was said to be "spores from the flower of life" and it's breathing the spores that give Rand his dream more than it is the dehydration.

Actually, if I remember correctly from the interview booklet that came with my MOSPEADA DVDs, there was intended to be a subplot where people on Earth were developing telepathic powers over the years of being in the presence of the Inbit. This episode, and Ray's "hallucinations", were the only part of that subplot that really made it to the final series.

[VF5SS]

So as long as you can make BS offscreen retcons everything is ok. Gotcha.

[Whamhammer]

That's a good parody of those hardcore fans.

Explain please.......

[VFTF1]

Speaking of on-screan wierdness.... I was just watching Star Wars A New Hope and...

Ok - we all know that David Prowse initially spoke all of Darth Vader's dialogue (with a scotish accent IIRC?) and then later Lucas dubed over it with that guy from Dr. Strangelove.

BUT... it appears that not all of the original dialogue was what we heard in the dub!

Catch the scene where Governor Tarkin is told that the Rebel base isn't on Debbyland (or whatever that planet was called) and Darth Vader says something like "she may still be of some use to us" about Princess Lea.

Now - ALMOST immedietely the scene changes over to the next act of the movie...ALMOST...

but for a microsecond you see something very wierd...

Namely - I swear to God - go check it out on your DVDs guys...Vader is gesticulating wildly!

He suddenly throws his arm up like he's going to give Tarken the choke-hold, but the scene cuts to the next act.

Now - I actually think - looking at it - that originally, Vader and Tarken were arguing, and Vader didn't say "she may yet be of some use to us" but probably something like "You fool! We can't kill Princess Lea! We need her alive! Are you brain dead signing her execution order!?" -- or something like that...

In any event - it's pretty awesome because with the dub Vader sounds calm - but then gesticulates wildly for a microsecond...

Wait.

What is the subject of this thread?

Pete

[BeyondTheGrave]

I am more confused now about what protoculture means in Robotech. Versus the whole who owns what part of Macross debate. I understand it more than I do protoculture.

[Einherjar]

So as long as you can make BS offscreen retcons everything is ok. Gotcha.

Have a gas problem?

Protoculture

Want to travel faster than light/fold space?

Protoculture

Wanna get high?

Protoculture

Starting to hallucinate?

Protoculture

Want to time travel?

Protoculture

Want to start a war over something?

Protoculture

What's this cult based on?

Protoculture

What are these inorganic aliens afraid of?

Protoculture (why? don't know)

What makes you evolve?

Protoculture

Need a mood stabilizer?

Protoculture

Why do we need to rescue some old dude heading towards a black hole?

Protoculture

Why are people singing horrible songs?

Linn Minmei (Robotech)

Edited September 11, 2009 by Einherjar

[Gubaba]

Have a gas problem?

Protoculture

Want to travel faster than light?

Protoculture

Wanna get high?

Proculture

Starting to hallucinate?

Protoculture

Want to time travel?

Protoculture

Want to start a war over something?

Protoculture

What's this cult based on?

Protoculture

What are these inorganic aliens afraid of?

Protoculture (why? don't know)

What makes you evolve?

Protoculture

Need a mood stabilizer?

Protoculture

Why are people singing horrible songs?

Linn Minmei (Robotech)

Hey, hey, hey, calm down, you two. New Protoculture is both a floor wax AND a dessert topping! Here, I'll spray some on your mop...and some on your butterscotch pudding.

[Gubaba]

Allright, I am big enough to admitt when I am incorrect. After watching that point of the episode, he did say that. What he means can still be argued.

In Robotech, exposure to the Flower of Life did bring about effects such as hallucinations and other mind altering effects. Points of refference would be Dana's exposure as well as Rand's exposure, both had a hallucengenic/mind altering reaction and had changes of thier understanding of situations that would seem to be brought about by an outside sourceof knowlesge. Maybe Dolza's assertion of effect of protoculture (even a few moments later) is that the Flower of Life and its byproducts brought about behavioral traits in the Zentraedi that the Robotech Masters filtered out by minimal exposure to protoculture/flower of life and able to being able to act out on reactions of the past . Male and female units being seperated (I know this is standard in many militaries for the same reason as the Zents did , but possible for a more intense fear of reaction.) The Zentraedi didnt maintain their ships , maybe because they were disallowed to avoid being accidentally exposed to protoculture . This would explain a lack of maintenance of a military vessel. This goes against typical known military beliefs of being very strict on maintenance on equipment , albeit Ive never heard of alien militaries, but would believe they would do the same unless they have a very good reason.

That's a lot of intellectual hoops to jump through to try to (I believe) cover up the fact that they were making it all up as they went along.

Stiil, an "A" for effort.

[Lolicon]

Explain please.......

Occam's Razor, my friend.

[VFTF1]

Occam's Razor, my friend.

God I miss those. I use an electric razor now. It's easy, but sometimes I miss a clean shave that only the old handheld razors could give you. But yeah...I always wanted to go to a barber shop and get a shave (like something out of the 30s) where they'd still use those.

Pete

[BeyondTheGrave]

God I miss those. I use an electric razor now. It's easy, but sometimes I miss a clean shave that only the old handheld razors could give you. But yeah...I always wanted to go to a barber shop and get a shave (like something out of the 30s) where they'd still use those.

Pete

Your on the Protoculture...aren't you?!

[jenius]

Actually, if I remember correctly from the interview booklet that came with my MOSPEADA DVDs, there was intended to be a subplot where people on Earth were developing telepathic powers over the years of being in the presence of the Inbit. This episode, and Ray's "hallucinations", were the only part of that subplot that really made it to the final series.

I do remember reading that somewhere. I believe Ray's bio also included mention of budding pyschic abilities (which I think was supposed to make him more in tune with his surroundings than the others). So it seemed there was supposed to be an intimation that the humans were becoming more Inbit like while the Inbit were becoming more human.

[Wanzerfan]

What does FASA have to do with Big West...?

I was talking about the Battletech Unseen fiasco (Battletech was owned by FASA at the time)

Speaking of on-screan wierdness.... I was just watching Star Wars A New Hope and...

Ok - we all know that (1) David Prowse initially spoke all of Darth Vader's dialogue (with a scotish accent IIRC?) and then later Lucas dubed over it with that guy from Dr. Strangelove.

BUT... it appears that not all of the original dialogue was what we heard in the dub!

Catch the scene where Governor Tarkin is told that the Rebel base isn't on (2) Debbyland (or whatever that planet was called) and Darth Vader says something like "she may still be of some use to us" about Princess Lea.

Now - ALMOST immedietely the scene changes over to the next act of the movie...ALMOST...

but for a microsecond you see something very wierd...

Namely - I swear to God - go check it out on your DVDs guys...Vader is gesticulating wildly!

He suddenly throws his arm up like he's going to give Tarken the choke-hold, but the scene cuts to the next act.

Now - I actually think - looking at it - that originally, Vader and Tarken were arguing, and Vader didn't say "she may yet be of some use to us" but probably something like "You fool! We can't kill Princess Lea! We need her alive! Are you brain dead signing her execution order!?" -- or something like that...

In any event - it's pretty awesome because with the dub Vader sounds calm - but then gesticulates wildly for a microsecond...

Wait.

What is the subject of this thread?

Pete

Don't talk about Star Wars if you don't know what you're talking about.

(1) James Earl Jones is the voice of Darth Vader, David Prose did do the dialogue for 3CPO.

(2) The decoy rebel base was located on Dantoine.

Edited September 12, 2009 by Wanzerfan

[jenius]

Shouldn't be snooty and mispell the name of the planet

[Gubaba]

I was talking about the Battletech Unseen fiasco (Battletech was owned by FASA at the time)

Yes. Which involved HARMONY GOLD, not Big West as you claimed. Big West was never involved in any kind of lawsuit with FASA.

Don't talk about Star Wars if you don't know what you're talking about.

(1) James Earl Jones is the voice of Darth Vader, David Prose did do the dialogue for 3CPO.

(2) The decoy rebel base was located on Dantoine.

David Prowse (not Prose) played Darth Vader. And yes, Prowse did Vader's voice during filming. James Earl Jones's voice was dubbed in later. C-3PO (not 3CPO)'s voice was done by Anthony Daniels.

VFTF1 is right. You are wrong.

Wanzerfan...again, I don't want to offend, but you are wrong an AWFUL LOT of the time, even with stuff that is easy to verify. I'm not saying that everything on a message board has to be 100% factual 100% of the time, but I'd respectfully suggest CHECKING YOUR INFORMATION before posting. Especially if you're going to get snippy about it.

Edited September 12, 2009 by Gubaba

[EXO]

Haha... that's all sorts of hilarious.

[VFTF1]

Don't talk about Star Wars if you don't know what you're talking about.

(1) James Earl Jones is the voice of Darth Vader, David Prose did do the dialogue for 3CPO.

(2) The decoy rebel base was located on Dantoine.

David Prowse (not Prose) played Darth Vader. And yes, Prowse did Vader's voice during filming. James Earl Jones's voice was dubbed in later. C-3PO's voice was done by Anthony Daniels.

And James Earl Jones WAS "the guy from Dr. Strangelovee" - he played the token black dude on the strategic bomber :-) (a role later "re-cast", albeit in more "serious" hues in the nuclear war movie "By Dawn's Early Light")

As for Protoculture - If I recall correctly, they made a big deal out of that one "Doctor's" eyes being all black in SDFM TV. I think Robotech called him Dr. Grant, even though the dude was just "superfluous technician number 1" in SDFM TV and made two key appearances (first to inform Global that the superdimmensional drive had been replaced by fairy dust, and later to debate human nature in "Satan's Ninios"). He always had these beedy black eyes in contradistinction to everybody else who have wide anime eyes.

The Robotech novels specifically describe that when you get high on Protoculture, your eyes get all beady. And Dr. Grant's eyes would be all beady because he made contact with Protoculture in the form of Fairy Dust.

The thing I don't get is...why the elaborate plot?

Why couldn't they just be more literal in their translations and - given that they had to syndicate 85 episodes - they could have made "Robotech" a kind of general name for "Anime time" - and "Robotech" would then have just been an umbrella name for three seperate anime brought over from Japan.

I guess they must have just really wanted to tinker with it and "westernize" it. Though I'm not exactly sure why...

Pete

Pete

[Keith]

Prediction: After a successful trilogy of movies, Robotech will end in a Dallas/Newhart style plot twist, with Tommy Yune waking up in the mid 80's after accidentaly getting into his parents pot stash. "Woah, that was a bad trip."

[Penguin]

I think Robotech called him Dr. Grant

My powers of pointless recollection name him Emil Lang, I think. He shows up again in the Sentinels footage with the same eyes, and may or may not have died off-screen inbetween Prelude to... and Shadow Chronicles.

Edited September 12, 2009 by Penguin