HG and Robotech Debates

[anime52k8]

Looks like someone had had fun during production.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFGo041te08 (at 3:55)

[Whamhammer]

Looks like someone had had fun during production.

@ warhammer

I think what everyone is trying to say is that Robotech lacks the key elements that remain the same and make it stand out as Robotech.

You brought out Star Trek. Star Trek has the same key elements through out its long film history. Even if its not the enterprise you still by the elements scattered through such as Starfleet, vulcans, photon torpedo, red shirt, guy who always flips over the railing.

Proculture doesn't count b/c it changes meaning through out the series. At first it comes off as sex, then energy of life, then finally star ship fuel.At one point Gobal ask Exedor if the zentradi are decendants of protoculture. So which is it?

What vf5ss is saying is that other fans have been buying the same three items(Valkyries,Rpg books,RT.com) re-packaged over and over again.

I don't have an issue with Bob Dylan haven't heard much of his music. Just Imagine Brittany Spears singing Don't Be Late.*shutters*

In Robotech , Exodore was asked if they thought that humans and the Zentraedi might have had the same decendents not "decendants of protoculture". In Robotech "protoculture" is the energy given off in a power conversion process of the plants that develop into the "flower of life", which powers the vast majority of Robotech mecha. The Reflex furnaces and reactors are reverse engineered from the wreckage create that same power but dont require an organic (ie flower) powersource , which is why they were so crucial to the Masters. The Invid are obsessed with protoculture to the point they detect its energy readings as a primary function.

The Zentraedi were confused by emotions such as love and by music (and I guess all happy happy joy joy things), thier society had filtered these things out , not that it was protoculture.

I know what vf was saying , albeit his lives in some emotionally disturbed land that we the sane should make a point to avoid. (" Those whom disagree are the enemy no ands ifs or butts"-land). Some fans prefer the first saga others the third and a minoirty the second. He also suggested that the Macross should be the crux of Robotech, I attest it isnt. Macross is not the father the sun and the holy ghost, just a part of it a cog in the gears of the story.

I also attest that moving on from the New Generation timeline is feasable and can be succesfull with propper project development. It remains to be seen if H.G. will be able to do that judging by the finished productof Shadow Chronicles and lack of public development of Rising (which should have been developed right along with Chronicles). I think they need to bring a staff in that will do that, and use any W.B. movie along side of it in place of prioritizing the live action (if they wish to remain having Robotech as an anime product instead of live action). The only reasons why H.G. should even try to work alonside more Macross in ventures is if they arent willing to take a chance and devlop more New Gen and boyond products or that they just totally give up, (and then might as well do nothing).

Edited September 10, 2009 by Whamhammer

[Whamhammer]

Or better yet, forget about movies, forget about animation, and just let Robotech fade into oblivion.

Thats your right to hope for it, and if H.G. isnt carefull that very may well happen. I see an opportunity for them and hope that they make something of it.

[Gubaba]

In Robotech , Exodore was asked if they thought that humans and the Zentraedi might have had the same decendents not "decendants of protoculture". In Robotech "protoculture" is the energy given off in a power conversion process of the plants that develop into the "flower of life", which powers the vast majority of Robotech mecha. The Reflex furnaces and reactors are reverse engineered from the wreckage create that same power but dont require an organic (ie flower) powersource , which is why they were so crucial to the Masters. The Invid are obsessed with protoculture to the point they detect its energy readings as a primary function.

The Zentraedi were confused by emotions such as love and by music (and I guess all happy happy joy joy things), thier society had filtered these things out , not that it was protoculture.

So...maybe you can answer the question that nobody's been able to answer for me...

If Protoculture is energy, why did Dolza shout "Protoculture!" when he saw Rick and Lisa kissing?

[BeyondTheGrave]

So...maybe you can answer the question that nobody's been able to answer for me...

If Protoculture is energy, why did Dolza shout "Protoculture!" when he saw Rick and Lisa kissing?

THANK YOU!!!

HEHEHE

And that's when you connect sex and protoculture.

[HappyPenguins]

You aren't a human being. You people have literally bought the same show for twenty something years with no change at all and when they finally give you sequels they suck yet you still farting buy it. And thanks to you this poo is still profitable enough for it to keep farting up my ability get Macross stuff.

So yeah you're not a human being, you're a robotech drone.

The only robotech fans who aren't human are the ones who believe robotech is worth defending.

However, I do not believe it's worth defending, and that may brand me as a "hater" in the fandom, but

I don't care. Robotech isn't unique nor is it amazing, it's just a generic scifi franchise and I like it.

(I know that certain RT fans who read this will probably add me to their hit list)

Robotech absolutely has nothing going for it, all the sequels and attempts to revive it have been failures

so all it really has are the 85 episodes and that's it, and even those arent unique

so go figure

[anime52k8]

So...maybe you can answer the question that nobody's been able to answer for me...

If Protoculture is energy, why did Dolza shout "Protoculture!" when he saw Rick and Lisa kissing?

well right when the kissed, he realized that he had left his oven on and that when he got home his protoculture bill was going to be HUGE.

[Whamhammer]

So...maybe you can answer the question that nobody's been able to answer for me...

If Protoculture is energy, why did Dolza shout "Protoculture!" when he saw Rick and Lisa kissing?

Ummmmmmmm, he didnt. Maybee in Macross he did but Robotech, he didnt.

[Whamhammer]

The only robotech fans who aren't human are the ones who believe robotech is worth defending.

However, I do not believe it's worth defending, and that may brand me as a "hater" in the fandom, but

I don't care. Robotech isn't unique nor is it amazing, it's just a generic scifi franchise and I like it.

(I know that certain RT fans who read this will probably add me to their hit list)

Robotech absolutely has nothing going for it, all the sequels and attempts to revive it have been failures

so all it really has are the 85 episodes and that's it, and even those arent unique

so go figure

Whos going to add you to thier hit list? You are allowed to have an opinion. However to deny someone elses opnion based on an emotional reaction and no consideration of it is folly.

[BeyondTheGrave]

So...maybe you can answer the question that nobody's been able to answer for me...

If Protoculture is energy, why did Dolza shout "Protoculture!" when he saw Rick and Lisa kissing?

Ummmmmmmm, he didnt. Maybee in Macross he did but Robotech, he didnt.

http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category...6158602zPRHPzfR

At the 17 minute mark if you can't access veoh, episode 11 "First Contact"

I'll look for another link.

[HappyPenguins]

Whos going to add you to thier hit list? You are allowed to have an opinion. However to deny someone elses opnion based on an emotional reaction and no consideration of it is folly.

not according to Memo and his cronies... they already consider my RT community

to be the KKK of the fandom

well right when the kissed, he realized that he had left his oven on and that when he got home his protoculture bill was going to be HUGE.

sounds plausible enough

Edited September 10, 2009 by HappyPenguins

[Gubaba]

Ummmmmmmm, he didnt. Maybee in Macross he did but Robotech, he didnt.

Okay, I misquoted...he doesn't shout "PROTOCULTURE," he shouts, "THIS RESULTS FROM PROTOCULTURE!?"

Jeez, you don't have to be so literal...

EDIT: And my question still stands.

Edited September 10, 2009 by Gubaba

[Seto Kaiba]

Ummmmm, it does make sence for them to use bits of Mospeada and Sentinels for thier future project. The continuation of Robotech timelines from the end of episode 85 (if you decide to have a project set in time approximate of ep' 85) is the return of the Robotech Expidionary Force following the Invids depature from Earth.

To use bits of it, yes... but to build a sequel ENTIRELY out of set pieces and characters salvaged from Carl Macek's failed Robotech II: the Sentinels project? I'll be blunt here, Whamhammer, Robotech: Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles was almost 100% recycled material from the old Sentinels comics, and Shadow Chronicles itself wasn't much better.

It's a fandom problem then. They see something Macross, understand the relationship it had with Robotech, and come to the conclusion that it should fit because of the obvious similarities. Most of the time that means only the mecha and visuals. Fans want Robotech, but with Macross characteristics.

This causes problems with HG because they're expected to deliver the same quality because of those similarities.

Oh yes, I've lost count of the number of times Robotech fans have e-mailed me asking for my input on their insane attempts to fit Macross sequels into the Robotech universe. Unfortunately, this pattern of behavior is unlikely to stop anytime soon, because the Macross Saga is, for all practical purposes, the only part of Robotech most of the fans give a poo about, and the only part of the "original 85" they can't manipulate as they see fit. Harmony Gold is, essentially, screwed coming and going.

I still don't see why fanboys are fighting tooth and nail over Robotech especially in light of the originals being so readily available. A lot of people trying to act like the mindless middle just say they're not that different. So really what are the fans defending? The people in charge barely acknowledge all of that mindless extended universe crap save for some vague poo scrawled on a napkin by Carl Macek. The show itself barely has any of this generational epic crap the fans keep raving about.

No kidding... most anime hobbyists have no clue what Robotech fans see in Robotech, since it's a heavily bowdlerized rewrite of three unrelated shows. With frankly absurdly easy access to the original works thanks to the internet and widespread DVD distribution, the few Robotech die-hards are just clinging to a childhood memory by viewing it through some heavily rose-tinted glasses. The fans are, for the most part, deep in denial that Robotech is not an original work, and particularly that it wasn't the huge, wildly popular generational epic that Harmony Gold wants to think of it as. Of course, these days doing something as simple as pointing out that most of the anime hobbyists regard Robotech as poo not worth watching, and that the rest of the world doesn't even remember it gets you flamed by the fans and hounded across multiple sites.

I disagree with you highly, a product need not anchor istelf on just one segement of its history unless it wants to.

No, but in order for a product to succeed, it has to be something that people want.

The vast majority of Robotech fans have made it abundantly clear that they don't give a toss about the Masters Saga and New Generation, they're only in it for the Macross, and Harmony Gold recognizes that... which is why virtually all of the merchandise was Macross-based, and why most of the NEW stuff is all still Macross-based.

I would be very happy if H.G. puts out a product and doesnt have a Valk/VF-1 or Rick Hunter or Minmay in it ever again. Im happy with the succession of these three (now four) wars and dont need to see related Macross stuff in Robotech anymore, the original saga served its purpose and Im ready to move on.

You realize that this statement is in direct contradiction with the expressed wishes of most Robotech fans, right? Very few fans profess to feel as you do. Most of them are only following RTSC because of the promise of seeing Macross characters again.

"You people" and "farting" have always been the hallmarks of the beginning of an intellegent responce. I'm still waiting for an intellegent argument, I'd really like to hear one.

It's a word-filtering thing... this site has an automatic censoring system built in.

I assure you, we're still waiting for you to post a response that doesn't follow the pattern of "blatant Robotech apologist", desperately trying to defend your rose-colored memories, which really doesn't give you the right to claim the arugments of others aren't intelligent. Based on your posts, you seem to be every bit as deep in denial as the typical Robotech die-hard... in your particular case, denial of one of the most easily quantifiable aspects of Robotech fandom... that the majority of fans could care less about the Masters Saga and New Generation... they're much more interested in Macross Saga characters, mecha, and stories... to say nothing of your apparent desire to try and make Robotech out to be more than the sum of three unrelated shows glued end to end with some truly awful editing.

Edited September 10, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Freiflug88]

Is it time for this pic again...?

That is just from Dai Con IV the greatest AMV that will ever be.

I just know the SDF for the Robotech LAM will have the Enterprise and the Galactica for arms. It also shoot giant spider webs from its wrist to ensnare enemy ships manned by giant alien Zentradi Celestrials. Its greatest weapon though will be Minmey Minnie Mouse singing the Mickey Mouse song.

Ummmmmmmm, he didnt. Maybee in Macross he did but Robotech, he didnt.

I remember he did the last time I watched Robotech, but it was the Remastered Robotech DVD episodes not the Original Robotech episodes that were originally broadcasted and then put to VHS and DVD. Does anyone have the Original Robotech DVDs to look back at?

A lot of people forget that Harmony Gold added in a few new scenes when they had to redit remastered Macross, Southern Cross, and Mosepedia footage into the Remastered Robotech collection after the Original Robotech edited footage was damaged in a flood. So I say it is possible that the Dolza yelling Protoculture as Rick and Lisa kissed was never shown in the original 85 that were broadcasted just as Robotech edited out that scene where Minmay jokes that her hair looking good is more important then her life in Episode 2.

[Gubaba]

Y'know, I feel a little bad for Whamhammer...I'm not sure he realized the kind of reception a Robotech fan who ISN'T also a Macross fan would get here...

But I really have to ask...Memo thought "Dana" was a Mospeada character, Whamhammer didn't know that Dolza mentioned Protoculture when Rick and Lisa kissed.

I haven't watched a complete episode of Robotech in nearly twenty-four years...why do I know more about it than these fans do???

[Gubaba]

I remember he did the last time I watched Robotech, but it was the Remastered Robotech DVD episodes not the Original Robotech episodes that were originally broadcasted and then put to VHS and DVD. Does anyone have the Original Robotech DVDs to look back at?

Well...I've never seen the Remastered, Extended Robotech, and *I* remember that scene from when I watched it on TV oh so many years ago...

[VF5SS]

I know what vf was saying , albeit his lives in some emotionally disturbed land that we the sane should make a point to avoid. (" Those whom disagree are the enemy no ands ifs or butts"-land).nd devlop more New Gen and boyond products or that they just totally give up, (and then might as well do nothing).

Man that's an intelligent argument right there.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Y'know, I feel a little bad for Whamhammer...I'm not sure he realized the kind of reception a Robotech fan who ISN'T also a Macross fan would get here...

But I really have to ask...Memo thought "Dana" was a Mospeada character, Whamhammer didn't know that Dolza mentioned Protoculture when Rick and Lisa kissed.

I haven't watched a complete episode of Robotech in nearly twenty-four years...why do I know more about it than these fans do???

Some people just don't pay attention to the details.

@Feriflug

You frogot to mention that instead of a space fold it'll be a Stargate that sends them to the edge of the solar system.

[Seto Kaiba]

I remember he did the last time I watched Robotech, but it was the Remastered Robotech DVD episodes not the Original Robotech episodes that were originally broadcasted and then put to VHS and DVD. Does anyone have the Original Robotech DVDs to look back at?

I have the original DVDs, and in there he shouts "This results from Protoculture?"

A lot of people forget that Harmony Gold added in a few new scenes when they had to redit remastered Macross, Southern Cross, and Mosepedia footage into the Remastered Robotech collection after the Original Robotech edited footage was damaged in a flood.

You're mixing histories here... the "new" scenes were material that had originally been cut from Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada due to broadcast standards and cultural differences (mainly gory deaths, fanservice, and partial nudity). The Robotech footage that was damaged beyond repair was the footage for the Robotech: the Untold Story movie. I haven't heard anything about the Robotech original series footage being damaged in a flood.

Y'know, I feel a little bad for Whamhammer...I'm not sure he realized the kind of reception a Robotech fan who ISN'T also a Macross fan would get here...

Give him no pity... we DID forewarn him.

But I really have to ask...Memo thought "Dana" was a Mospeada character, Whamhammer didn't know that Dolza mentioned Protoculture when Rick and Lisa kissed.

I haven't watched a complete episode of Robotech in nearly twenty-four years...why do I know more about it than these fans do???

You have a good memory for detail? It beats me why the die-hards can't even remember things like that... maybe their highly selective memories account for why they defend the series so adamantly... they can only remember the parts they liked.

[anime52k8]

Okay, I misquoted...he doesn't shout "PROTOCULTURE," he shouts, "THIS RESULTS FROM PROTOCULTURE!?"

Jeez, you don't have to be so literal...

EDIT: And my question still stands.

Remember how in Robotech Kamjin was a "Protoculture addict" instead of an alcoholic. well, when they kissed, Dolza thought that they were high on protoculture and it had made them all horny.

see, it all makes sense now, doesn't it.

[Gubaba]

Remember how in Robotech Kamjin was a "Protoculture addict" instead of an alcoholic. well, when they kissed, Dolza thought that they were high on protoculture and it had made them all horny.

see, it all makes sense now, doesn't it.

Oh. Yes.

Clear as day.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Remember how in Robotech Kamjin was a "Protoculture addict" instead of an alcoholic. well, when they kissed, Dolza thought that they were high on protoculture and it had made them all horny.

well , he realized that he had left his oven on and that when he got home his protoculture bill was going to be HUGE.

So he sticks his head in the oven to get high?!

Edited September 10, 2009 by BeyondTheGrave

[HappyPenguins]

So he sticks his head in the oven to get high?!

XD

[Einherjar]

On the animation front, if HG can't find a way to continue Robotech by themselves with some dignity, they should at least give the fans some closure for a story that hasn't ended for 25 years. People from all sides of the fandom deserve at least that for having to go through this crap for so long. I don't care if they copy the ending from the novels or something, just end on a high note for once, instead of "to be continued for an indefinite amount of time."

Shadow Chronicles could be considered closure of some kind for the original series, but with another war brewing and the lives of very important characters on the line, especially G1 character Rick "Macguffin" Hunter, is it really?

EDIT - Correction, instead of "We will win."

Edited September 10, 2009 by Einherjar

[Keith]

No I am associating Reba West with one of the worst American singers in the history of our nation. Dylan might be able to right, but the man couldnt hold a tune to save his life!!!

While I don't see how you couldn't like Bob Dylon, fact remains:

-He plays his own music

-He writes his own music

-Regardless of whether you like him or not, he's passionate about his music, and puts that passion into his songs.

Reba West on the other hand.

-Hack actor of the street whom they had to get drunk to get into the recording studio

-No Passion

-No talent

-Regardless of whether you like her or not, the old addage is true, when you poo-in, you get poo-out.

[VFTF1]

But I really have to ask...Memo thought "Dana" was a Mospeada character, Whamhammer didn't know that Dolza mentioned Protoculture when Rick and Lisa kissed.

I haven't watched a complete episode of Robotech in nearly twenty-four years...why do I know more about it than these fans do???

They never kissed. That never happened. It was an animation error. The Japanese are legend for those.

When the Japanese made the Robotech cartoon, based off the great American novels by Jack McKinny, they added a lot of crazy stuff that Harmony Gold has been having to deal with ever since then. Like that kissing scene.

You know how the Japanese are. They'll always try to throw something mushy like a kissing scene into a cartoon about robots and aliens.

The kiss never really happened, but due to legal problems, HG couldn't edit it out.

To focus too much on that animation error is pointless. It's like that one scene where Max's Veritech Fighte had missiles on its' tail fins. Of course the Veritech fighter doesn't have those.

Do we see people claiming that just because it was on screne, therefore veritech fighters can carry missiles on their tail fins?

No.

So just because Rick and Lisa kiss doesn't mean it really happened.

Just go read the original novel that started it all and you'll know.

Pete

EDIT: And you DO realize, Gubaba - don't you? - that Macross (Japanese), Mospedea and Southern Cross were all originally ONE STORY called Robotech? And that when Harmony Gold tried to export these to the international market, the Japanese said that due to how their TV syndication works they need to split Robotech into three parts - which the Japanese ended up making unrelated as a plot.

I know this is hard for Macross fans to accept, and for Mospedea or Southern Cross fans too: but you guys DO all realize that all of these three cartoons were originally one cartoon called Robotech?

Edited September 10, 2009 by VFTF1

[Jasonc]

I do have to say, that labelling RT fans as "Not human", and "Robotech drones" or whatnot, will definitely invalidate your argument from the word go. While you say that, there's enough other people saying the same thing about die-hard Macross fans, and probably have the same disdain for us as well. I do find it amusing to see people who get so bent out of shape because someone likes something they don't. While I am not much of a Robotech fan like I used to, I can still be considered a fan. Something that has seemed to bug me, is when Robotech fans trash Macross cause it's not Robotech, and Macross fans trash Robotech because it still has ties to Macross. It's that thinking from both sides, that make those people into "drones". I do understand that there are some RT fans that are just blind, and naive, and simply act as RT drones, but just because someone would like to see a good Robotech series, film, or whatnot, I doubt that qualifies.

In the past couple pages here, I'd like to comment on a couple things. For one, I do think Robotech is undeniably tied to Macross, for good or bad, it is what it is. As long as the same characters are mentioned, shown, etc., Macross will always be looked back upon as reference to what Robotech is making itself now. I know HG has tried to use Mospeada as the anchor for it's new films, but how successful do you think they'll be if they moved away from all things Macross (characters, implied Zentraedi offspring, on and on)?

Pete also brought up an interesting point...Robotech itself isn't the evil that some Macross fans make it out to be. Heck, most here probably would have no clue about all this stuff if it wasn't for Robotech. What HAS made Robotech ugly, is basically the choices they've made in screwing the Macross fans, the lies, spin, so-on, and so-forth. What doesn't help is the handful of rotten apples that do spoil it for them even more, and perpetuate the "war" of words between both sets of fans.

Oh, and to answer the question of why Dolza makes reference to protoculture when Rick and Lisa kiss, most of the VA's had to improvise lines, and that was one of the improvised lines I believe. I've been lucky to talk with a few of the VAs, and much of the voice sessions were full of improvisation. From what I've gathered, it ended up being a fill in, that ended up moving into other things, like the power of protoculture when Miriya holds up baby Dana. Is it goofy, hell yeah, but back then, I was just happy to see a version of Macross come over. I was a Macross fan first, thanks to Japanese friends in elementary school.

[VFTF1]

Pete also brought up an interesting point...Robotech itself isn't the evil that some Macross fans make it out to be. Heck, most here probably would have no clue about all this stuff if it wasn't for Robotech. What HAS made Robotech ugly, is basically the choices they've made in screwing the Macross fans, the lies, spin, so-on, and so-forth. What doesn't help is the handful of rotten apples that do spoil it for them even more, and perpetuate the "war" of words between both sets of fans.

That Pete guy is a total Macross-drone. He's not human. And his wish-washy let's all get along approach is just cover for the fact that he knows that he has no arguments on his side. Whenever someone is in favor of getting along, it just means they know they're wrong. But remember - when you compromise between Food and Poison - poison always wins.

The fact of the matter is that Robotech is totally superior in every way AND that the novels came first. Harmony Gold approached the Japanese in good faith, asking them to make the Robotech Cartoon, which could have also done a lot to bring the Japanese anime industry out of its' stagnation. And what happened? Well - it was the 1980s and language barriers were a lot bigger than they used to be and I guess whether it was a mistranslation or misinterpretation - but the Japanese split the cartoon into three pieces that had nothing to do with the original McKinney plot.

Now, I think that what is really causing the bad blood between the fandoms is the insistence of the Macross-drones to NOT ACCEPT THE FACTS THAT MEMO HAS LAID OUT IN BIG LETTERS! Clearly and without a doubt the author has a moral right to their work - and Jack McKinney IS the owner and brain behind Robotech, and its' derivatives like Macross.

Some people have gone so far as to state, based solely on the fine print in Jack McKinney's Robotech novels, that Jack McKinney is a pen name for two seperate people. This is completely not true. Anyone who has followed McKinney's career knows that he's just very humble and thinks up elaborate ways to downplay his person in any venture.

But still the ignorance and hate continues.

And now there's this big competition going on in the market between Macross Frontier and The Shadow Chronicles. We still don't know which venture will end up being the most popular. So far, I think Shadow Chronciles has an edge because it's in english and the whole world knows english. Macross Frontier is in Japanese, so of course not many people are going to watch it until it gets dubbed, which probably will not happen. But hey - the Japanese have really isolated themselves by making their cartoons in Japanese. I guess this is why they have that slurmty Cherry Nomy character - because if you can't have understandable dialogue - then the next best thing is sex appeal.

But I have faith that in this day an age, no matter how many semi-pornographic cartoons the Japanese churn out, quality story telling and attention to detail will always win out because people ultimately - in the long run - are always looking for a deep and meaningful story.

Besides, from what I've read, Macross Frontier was written by a guy named Eggnogy, who apparently also did some earlier cartoons that were popular in Japan. Lots of Macross fans made a big deal out of this, though I can't see why. I check Eggnogy's credits and stuff he has worked on in the past is so obscure that nobody has ever heard of it. Not even worth mentioning really. No wonder that crazy "I know Japanese" Macross-drone Gubaba has been so busy trying to "prove" that Eggnogy has nothing to do with Macross: Frontier - having someone with as bad a reputation as Eggnogy attached to the show would just sink its' prosepcts.

In any event, we'll see. Bad as what the Japanese did with Robotech, chopping it up into three series - I will say one positive thing about Macross: it could have been worse.

Just look at what the Japanese did to the original Go Bots ("Gun Dam" in Japan).

Pete

[Keith]

NO, you are so WRONG! Jack Mckinney IS the pen name for two writers. Carl Macek & Frank Agramamamajama!

[VFTF1]

NO, you are so WRONG! Jack Mckinney IS the pen name for two writers. Carl Macek & Frank Agramamamajama!

I know that, but what you don't know - and what people don't realize - is that Carl Macek and Frank Agramamamjama are the same person. It's a pretty elaborate set up, but you can tell if you look closely. And when they appear together - one of them is always actually an actor done up to be the other one. Notice that usually one does all the talking while the other one just nods - the nodding one is the real one (not the actor, who does the talking...it's counter-intuitive, I know).

Now what most people don't understand is that Carl and Frank used to BE Jack.

Huh?

Lemme explain:

Jack was born as twins combined at the hip and at the brain. So technically, even though he had two heads, he was one person. But then, thanks to an operation that was successful, they were split - and suddenly you had two people. Hence Carl and Frank.

But when later in life they teamed up to write the Robotech novels, they thought it would be great to use the pen name Jack McKinney (McKinney is Irish for "Two Minds/One Heart").

See - this is the problem with Macross drones. NEVER checking your facts. Always going off of conjecture. Always sure of yourself. And always flat out wrong.

Pete

[Gubaba]

Oh, and to answer the question of why Dolza makes reference to protoculture when Rick and Lisa kiss, most of the VA's had to improvise lines, and that was one of the improvised lines I believe. I've been lucky to talk with a few of the VAs, and much of the voice sessions were full of improvisation. From what I've gathered, it ended up being a fill in, that ended up moving into other things, like the power of protoculture when Miriya holds up baby Dana. Is it goofy, hell yeah, but back then, I was just happy to see a version of Macross come over. I was a Macross fan first, thanks to Japanese friends in elementary school.

I'm sorry...but I'm not sure I believe that. In Macross, Bodolza shouts out "PROTOCULTURE!" in that scene...so if the actor ad-libbed the line, he either checked the Japanese version (unlikely) or else it's an amazing coincidence that he created the same word as the Japanese version had (REALLY unlikely). Unless you're just talking about the "This results from..." part of the statement. THAT, I can believe was improvised.

It think it's more likely that the Robotech writers were making up the Protoculture stuff as they went along. So they references to it in the Macross Saga don't square with what they later say it is in the Masters Saga and New Generation.

But it's a mistake, pure and simple. And, as the first mention of Protoculture in the show, it's a pretty big mistake at that.

[EXO]

What? You dont scream "Gasoline!" everytime you see 2 tiny people making out?

[Roy Focker]

What? You dont scream "Gasoline!" everytime you see 2 tiny people making out?

Yes. Because making out leads to sex and sex is a sin. You know what isn't a sin? Purification by fire. I scream for Gasoline to be splashed on people making out so I set them free.

Doesn't everybody else?

[VFTF1]

What? You dont scream "Gasoline!" everytime you see 2 tiny people making out?

No, because my car runs on gas, as in Natural Gas - not gasoline...aka the vaporous stuff rather than the stuff from petrolium/oil or whatever (I don't know tech stuff so well).

But Natural Gas is great. I just tanked up again for 3 USD after covering 275 Kilometers for 5 bucks - which is what I paid about a week and a half ago when I last filled her up with Natural Gas

So, when I see people making out, I shout NATURAL GAS!

Pete

[Funkenstein]

From what I understand now, Protoculture is a precursor civilization that got turned into fuel and manifests as a sentient space flower that sings but also produces energy , and that when two people kiss, that energy is released, which can then get people high and/or cooked.