HG and Robotech Debates

[akt_m]

Let's just put it this way: Macross rules, Robotech drools.

One day I will win big in the lottery (I'm talking 20 million+), at which time I will contact BW and purchase a license to one of the unlicensed Macross projects and release it in the states. When HG comes knocking at my door with a C&D I will take them to court and make sure everything is public, just so we will all finally know exactly what is HG has rights to.

Man, there are many better things to spend money than hating Robotech...

Edited September 8, 2009 by akt_m

[Einherjar]

Somebody point me to a thread full of serious analysis of the Robotech novels?

This is either serious analysis of the Robotech novels or justification of why they changed things in it.

http://robotech-aod.com/mckinney.html

The rest might be too dark to talk about compared to the animation.

Edited September 8, 2009 by Einherjar

[the white drew carey]

Man, there are many better things to spend money than hating Robotech...

Not really. Money is just money. Its not as much about hating RT as it is hating HG. If people like RT, more power to them. But HG is a different beast. I'd feel fine getting everything out in the clear so that we can all go on our merry way.

[Einherjar]

Not really. Money is just money. Its not as much about hating RT as it is hating HG. If people like RT, more power to them. But HG is a different beast. I'd feel fine getting everything out in the clear so that we can all go on our merry way.

These days they are one and the same. Do you see Harmony Gold doing anything besides promote Robotech all the time? Besides that theater they run in Southern California, it's really the only thing the company does now. And with the recent legal fiasco, it's the only thing audiences of various media will remember them for.

[Jasonc]

Legally speaking, there is nothing wrong with those statements from HG. It is only fan interpretation of those statements (i.e. substitute Robotech with Macross/Southern Cross/etc) that confuses the statement and makes it very wrong.

I wasn't implying that there was anything legally wrong with what they were saying, but moreso in the context in which they say it. They say it in a way that is vague, as to give a bunch of people the ideas that lead us to the debate/debacle we keep going back to. It's probably done intentionally as to tactfully mislead those that don't understand the legal verbage. Just look through youtube at all the various convention Q&A's HG staff do at their panels...they do it in many of the questions that are very direct, they skirt around the question, and shift it to other examples. Classic spin cycle.

[Gubaba]

You're crossing streams again. It could not be in Shadow Chronicles because BW owns the intellectual property rights, not the merchandising rights. Like Seto pointed out, HG has sold Southern Cross merchandise before. I have no idea how the Southern Cross rights work though, never cared to look.

You're right. I do know that Big West at some time owned some part of Southern Cross, since I got most of the model kits as a kid, and they all had that silvery "Big West" sticker on them. Which *may* be an impediment to Harmony Gold using anything from Southern Cross...or it may not.

As always, though, once the topic of Southern Cross comes up, the usual response from most people is apathy and indifference...in other words, I'm not going to start digging around to find who owns what, either.

Which is true. SC was cancelled because of low ratings.

Facts about SD Southern Cross.

*Big West was the sponsor

*created by Studio Nue and Artland

*entirely produced by Tatsunoko

So Tatsunoko get production credit only much like SDF Macross TV and DYRL.

But mechanical designs are a bit vague as it is said that its sister studio Ammonite was responsible for them.

So my analysis is that Big West has the IP while Tsunoko gets credit for production and mechanical designs made by Ammonite.

I don't *think* Studio Nue had anything to do with Southern Cross. At least, the show is not listed in the Studio Nue Entertainment Bibles as one of their works, and that has a complete listing of their projects from 1972 to 1990.

[taksraven]

This is either serious analysis of the Robotech novels or justification of why they changed things in it.

http://robotech-aod.com/mckinney.html

The rest might be too dark to talk about compared to the animation.

Those books sucked, plain and simple.

Taksraven

[Freiflug88]

Yes, it's true. Which is why there's no Southern Cross stuff in Shadow Chronicles.

I could have sworn Shadow Chronicles had Space Station Liberty, Louie, and whats that crap called again... oh yeah protoculture.

Not really. Money is just money. Its not as much about hating RT as it is hating HG. If people like RT, more power to them. But HG is a different beast. I'd feel fine getting everything out in the clear so that we can all go on our merry way.

So is buying a DVD with the HG logo on it and getting it autographed by Richard Epcar at Dragon Con an unforgivable sin?

Edited September 8, 2009 by Freiflug88

[Gubaba]

I could have sworn Shadow Chronicles had Space Station Liberty, Louie, and whats that crap called again... oh yeah protoculture.

First off...Protoculture comes from Southern Cross???

Have you NEVER seen any Macross shows?

As for Space Station Liberty and Louie Nchols...didn't we already go through this with Rick Hunter?

[Freiflug88]

First off...Protoculture comes from Southern Cross???

Have you NEVER seen any Macross shows?

As for Space Station Liberty and Louie Nchols...didn't we already go through this with Rick Hunter?

Master's Saga/Southern Cross same difference. Without Southern Cross there would be no Space Station Liberty, Louie, or nuclear plants growing in the core of SDF class Ships.

[HappyPenguins]

Imagine someone attaching themselves to Robotech like that? Well - if you really want to be a commited fan, you want to know EVERYTHING - the history behind the show, the details....but Robotech is unique insofar as the more you dig, the more you see one thing springing up time an time again: MACROSS. This is true

And not "the Macross saga" but MACROSS - as in the original, Japanese Macross.

As hard as you might try to ignore or avoid it, it is almost unimaginable that the things you love about Robotech (the love triangle, the mecha, the characters) won't eventually bring you to MACROSS.

Also true as I have watched DYRL

And then the dilemna appears: you see the Japanese original and compare it to Robotech and discover that - hey - this Japanese thing is really, really great. And you appreciate what might have inspired the creators of Robotech to bring this great stuff to America 20 years ago - and you also realize that Robotech was just a vehicle meant to introduce Americans and westerners in general to the wonders not just of Macross, but of Japanese anime - which you suddenly begin to fall in love with.

Or you decide you can appreciate them both just the same.

And what remains of Robotech? Well - a fond memory, the Paladium games if you played them as a kid, and the thrill of the imaginative adventure that you once experienced but now know to have been a small sampling of a much larger and more fantastic world that you suddenly fall in love with - Macross and Japanese anime as a whole.

OR

You realize all of this and conclude:

Thank GOD Harmony Gold made something worthwhile out of all this retarded Japanese crap, cut out that horrible singing and replaced it with seriously good music and then got rid of the whole music/culture/love theme and made it about psychedelic flowers and generic space ships and transforming robots fighting bug like aliens!

There's things I like and don't like, but I know that without those three separate shows, RT wouldn't exist today and it did help introduce a lot of people to anime, excluding myself lol I got introduced to anime through the old speed racer cartoon

and then you see Shadow Chronicles and wonder aloud why this is not being nominated for an Oscar for the third straight year in a row? No

To me - it is hard to imagine that the second type of person exists.

sad but true, some like that DO exist

I watch Doug Bendo on youtube. I don't even need to listen to what he is saying - it is enough to look at his desk. His screensaver is some splash from Robotech...but...where are the awesome figures? Where is the collection?

Who out there is proud of and cherishes their "MASTERPIECE" Robotech collection? Where is the "strike a pose" thread for those and on what forum?

Where are the gamers who can't get enough of piloting their "veritech fighters" into battle? Oh...they're all playing Macross VF-X?...ooops...

yeah not everyone can afford HG's expensive toys and the macross ones look nicer >_> not to mention there haven't been any RT games worthy of replay value.....L4D plz

See - this is the problem with being a 'Robotech Fan' - it is NOT POSSIBLE.

You can still be a fan just not a die-hard one.

By definition - a fan is someone seriously commited - and if you're going to seriously commit to Robotech - it will lead you to Macross.

Either that or lead you to create your own universe, which also requires the same amount of commitment and lack of a life

At which point you either decide to leave your brain at the door and just believe everything Harmony Gold says OR...you begin to really enjoy Macross...and start building Frontier kits and striving for the latest Yamato release and singing along to Sheryl and Ranka's songs...

Or you create a community for those who share the same opinion about HG and end up getting banned from the official site and branded for life

Somebody tell me I'm wrong here and show me some good, high quality Robotech fan sites and fanfiction and fan art and fan discussion? www.Robotecha.com - not my site, but a friend of mine. also this one

http://robelwell202.webs.com/

Somebody point me to a thread full of serious analysis of the Robotech novels?

That's a fairly big body of literature...and it seems nobody cares about it at all?

Some do and some don't, another flaw which divides the fandom.

It's hard to care for something that turned out to be the 1980s equivalent of bootlegged pirate DVDs from Tanzania

Like I said it just depends on the person, I'm a fan of the story, but not considered a die-hard.

Edited September 8, 2009 by HappyPenguins

[Gubaba]

Master's Saga/Southern Cross same difference. Without Southern Cross there would be no Space Station Liberty, Louie, or nuclear plants growing in the core of SDF class Ships.

Shadow Chronicles' Louie Nichols looks about as much like Southern Cross's Louis Ducasse as Rick Hunter looks like Hikaru Ichijo. There's nothing recognizably Southern Cross in Shadow Chronicles...at least, nothing that I can recall.

And Robotech Protoculture is one of those (few) things that is uniquely Robotech.

[VF5SS]

You sure about that? Harmony Gold did release Southern Cross merchandise under the Robotech name... first with Matchbox, then with Playmates as part of their Exo-Squad line, and they're still selling merchandise (mugs, apparel, and posters) with Southern Cross characters and the Southern Cross Army logo.

See the Big West sticker. Even the DVD jacket for the Japanese release markets it as part of the Super Dimension Saga along with Macross and Orguss. You can even find Southern Cross on Big West's website. I think the situation is reversed with Southern Cross. All of the design work was done by Tatsunoko's design studio, Ammonite and it was animated by Tatsunoko with Big West handling the production and marketing side. It may only apply to Japan, but Tatsunoko clearly does not have total control over Southern Cross like it does Mospeada.

[Freiflug88]

Shadow Chronicles' Louie Nichols looks about as much like Southern Cross's Louis Ducasse as Rick Hunter looks like Hikaru Ichijo. There's nothing recognizably Southern Cross in Shadow Chronicles...at least, nothing that I can recall.

And Robotech Protoculture is one of those (few) things that is uniquely Robotech.

I know what you mean appearance wise. I was talking about idea wise how their would be no character named Louie in Shadow Chronicles if Southern Cross never existed.

[Gubaba]

I know what you mean appearance wise. I was talking about idea wise how their would be no character named Louie in Shadow Chronicles if Southern Cross never existed.

And there would be no character named Rick Hunter in Shadow Chronicles if Macross hadn't existed...but that doesn't mean HG can use the original Macross designs.

And it's possible that they can't use Southern Cross, either.

[Seto Kaiba]

Yes, it's true. Which is why there's no Southern Cross stuff in Shadow Chronicles.

Um... wrong. Louie Nichols, the Robotech equivalent of Southern Cross secondary character Louis Ducasse, has rather a lot of screen time in Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles, and unlike "Rick Hunter", he's actually RECOGNIZABLE.

You're crossing streams again. It could not be in Shadow Chronicles because BW owns the intellectual property rights, not the merchandising rights. Like Seto pointed out, HG has sold Southern Cross merchandise before. I have no idea how the Southern Cross rights work though, never cared to look.

We don't know that... you're asserting a hypothesis as fact.

In truth, the evidence suggests that Tatsunoko owns the intellectual property rights to Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, as they were involved in the production from the very beginning, including the creation of the concepts and designs of the series. Remember the court's rationale for confirming that Tatsunoko had no claim on the Macross IP... they weren't involved in its creation. This is the reverse situation, where Tatsunoko WAS involved in the creative process from the very beginning. Tatsunoko and Harmony Gold made extensive use of Southern Cross IP in the failed Robotech II: the Sentinels series, and did use some characters from the Southern Cross series in Shadow Chronicles as well.

I think the reason you dont see Southern Cross stuff in Shadow Chronicles is that it is(overall) the least popular of the three sagas.

This, given the evidence, is a MUCH more likely conclusion.

Legally speaking, there is nothing wrong with those statements from HG. It is only fan interpretation of those statements (i.e. substitute Robotech with Macross/Southern Cross/etc) that confuses the statement and makes it very wrong.

Yeah... that's the main problem with MEMO1DOMINION and Maverick_LSC... they try to reinterpret statements like "we own all of Robotech" to mean "we own all of the shows that were used to make it".

Which is true. SC was cancelled because of low ratings.

Facts about SD Southern Cross.

*Big West was the sponsor

*created by Studio Nue and Artland

*entirely produced by Tatsunoko

So Tatsunoko get production credit only much like SDF Macross TV and DYRL.

But mechanical designs are a bit vague as it is said that its sister studio Ammonite was responsible for them.

So my analysis is that Big West has the IP while Tsunoko gets credit for production and mechanical designs made by Ammonite.

Some of your facts aren't facts at all... in fact most of them aren't. Do check your facts before posting, or you'll end up as bad as the people we're having so much trouble with.

Big West sponsored Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, but the show was created almost entirely by Tatusnoko Productions, with mechanical design done by Tatsunoko-contracted studio Ammonite. Tatsunoko should, under the law, get both the production credit and intellectual property rights, as they did all of the animation and creative legwork (and the little creative work that was done outside Tatsunoko was done on Tatsunoko's dime). By all the evidence, Tatsunoko has every right to use and authorize the use of Southern Cross intellectual property, as its legal owners.

The really revolting part of what you guys have been posting lately is that the information necessary to prove your point wrong is so piss-easy to find and understand that you all have NO excuse for this mistake.

Edited September 9, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Freiflug88]

Oh your talking about original designs. I was thinking ideas in general from the show. HG has shown time and time again that even though they can't always rip-off the original visual design they will rip off the ideas when they can.

[Gubaba]

Um... wrong. Louie Nichols, the Robotech equivalent of Southern Cross secondary character Louis Ducasse, has rather a lot of screen time in Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles, and unlike "Rick Hunter", he's actually RECOGNIZABLE.

We don't know that... you're asserting a hypothesis as fact.

In truth, the evidence suggests that Tatsunoko owns the intellectual property rights to Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, as they were involved in the production from the very beginning, including the creation of the concepts and designs of the series. Remember the court's rationale for confirming that Tatsunoko had no claim on the Macross IP... they weren't involved in its creation. This is the reverse situation, where Tatsunoko WAS involved in the creative process from the very beginning. Tatsunoko and Harmony Gold made extensive use of Southern Cross IP in the failed Robotech II: the Sentinels series, and did use some characters from the Southern Cross series in Shadow Chronicles as well.

This, given the evidence, is a MUCH more likely conclusion.

Yeah... that's the main problem with MEMO1DOMINION and Maverick_LSC... they try to reinterpret statements like "we own all of Robotech" to mean "we own all of the shows that were used to make it".

Some of your facts aren't facts at all... in fact most of them aren't. Do check your facts before posting, or you'll end up as bad as the people we're having so much trouble with.

Big West sponsored Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, but the show was created almost entirely by Tatusnoko Productions, with mechanical design done by Tatsunoko-contracted studio Ammonite. Tatsunoko should, under the law, get both the production credit and intellectual property rights, as they did all of the animation and creative legwork (and the little creative work that was done outside Tatsunoko was done on Tatsunoko's dime). By all the evidence, Tatsunoko has every right to use and authorize the use of Southern Cross intellectual property, as its legal owners.

The really revolting part of what you guys have been posting lately is that the information necessary to prove your point wrong is so piss-easy to find and understand that you all have NO excuse for this mistake.

Okay, I give...except on one point.

These two people are NOT recognizably the same. Same hair color, yes. And they both have funky goggles (but DIFFERENT funky goggles). Other than that, they don't resemble each other.

[Seto Kaiba]

These two people are NOT recognizably the same. Same hair color, yes. And they both have funky goggles (but DIFFERENT funky goggles). Other than that, they don't resemble each other.

It's close enough to be actionable were it a case of disputed intellectual property. You show that screen capture and concept art to someone who's never seen RTSC and they'll say "That's Louis Ducasse/Louie Nichols" without needing the caption. It's an update of the existing Louis Ducasse design, rather than a complete redesign of the existing Hikaru Ichijyo design like they did with Rick Hunter.

[Gubaba]

It's close enough to be actionable were it a case of disputed intellectual property. You show that screen capture and concept art to someone who's never seen RTSC and they'll say "That's Louis Ducasse/Louie Nichols" without needing the caption. It's an update of the existing Louis Ducasse design, rather than a complete redesign of the existing Hikaru Ichijyo design like they did with Rick Hunter.

Mmm...I don't really think so (although I'll agree that Rick Hunter is a MUCH more radical departure as far as character design goes), but I guess it's an honestly contestable point.

And even WATCHING Shadow Chronicles, I didn't realize it was Louie for quite a while. Maybe I'm just dim, but I'd like to think not. Or maybe it was because I was watching it on Youtube, so the "OVA quality animation" was not really discernible.

[Freiflug88]

And even WATCHING Shadow Chronicles, I didn't realize it was Louie for quite a while. Maybe I'm just dim, but I'd like to think not. Or maybe it was because I was watching it on Youtube, so the "OVA quality animation" was not really discernible.

That explains a lot. I recognized him as Louie right after he walked in and spoke thanks to seeing all the "OVA quality animation" through my friend's DVD.

[TheLoneWolf]

I'm no Southern Cross legal expert and what I'm about to say is hearsay. But it was my understanding that Big West only owns/owned the Southern Cross merchandising rights in Japan, which is why ARII and Matchbox were able to produce Southern Cross models & toys in Japan and the USA during the 80's. Whether or not Big West still has the Japanese merchandising rights is unknown.

If my information is correct, then Harmony Gold is free to use Southern Cross characters and mecha is TSC. I suppose the lack of Southern Cross in TSC is due to its small fan base and the movie's time restraints.

[Whamhammer]

Yeah, well - being off the radar alone isn't bad. I mean, Transformers was off the radar for a few years too - but look how the fan community flourished back then? You had lots of great fanfiction, great fan websites went up, dealers, conventions, fan comics - and eventually Hasbro got back on the bandwagon with Beast Wars and lots of good stuff later.

For all the complaining I do nowadays about Transformers - I realize that I'm complaining about something that has sort of become a victim of its' own success.

Seriously - it's HARD to expect people to remain interested in a dead product based on a show that turned out not to ever have really existed, and what's worse, a show whose three component parts are more interesting as stand alones seen in the original Japanese than as a hybrid with bad dubs.

But Robotech fans themselves are to blame - although...I can't "blame" them for being to blame...if that makes sense...lemme try an' explain:

See - what defines a fan of a given franchise, I think, is a level of dedication bordering on psychotic (and I mean that as a compliment). Take Gubaba for instance. He knows everything and spend hours translating things lots of us have never heard of (or at least I haven't) and actually takes the time to write long essays pointing out misperceptions. Same for Seto who is on top of the legal issues, or Mr. March who has a website and is on top of fictional mecha science...

Now - it's a given that this level of dedication is characteristic of a segment of the market - not the "casual" consumer of "cartoons" or "toys" - but a very dedicated type who is attached to a story and a mythology on a level bordering on religious commitment.

My point?

Imagine someone attaching themselves to Robotech like that? Well - if you really want to be a commited fan, you want to know EVERYTHING - the history behind the show, the details....but Robotech is unique insofar as the more you dig, the more you see one thing springing up time an time again: MACROSS.

And not "the Macross saga" but MACROSS - as in the original, Japanese Macross.

As hard as you might try to ignore or avoid it, it is almost unimaginable that the things you love about Robotech (the love triangle, the mecha, the characters) won't eventually bring you to MACROSS.

And then the dilemna appears: you see the Japanese original and compare it to Robotech and discover that - hey - this Japanese thing is really, really great. And you appreciate what might have inspired the creators of Robotech to bring this great stuff to America 20 years ago - and you also realize that Robotech was just a vehicle meant to introduce Americans and westerners in general to the wonders not just of Macross, but of Japanese anime - which you suddenly begin to fall in love with.

And what remains of Robotech? Well - a fond memory, the Paladium games if you played them as a kid, and the thrill of the imaginative adventure that you once experienced but now know to have been a small sampling of a much larger and more fantastic world that you suddenly fall in love with - Macross and Japanese anime as a whole.

OR

You realize all of this and conclude:

Thank GOD Harmony Gold made something worthwhile out of all this retarded Japanese crap, cut out that horrible singing and replaced it with seriously good music and then got rid of the whole music/culture/love theme and made it about psychedelic flowers and generic space ships and transforming robots fighting bug like aliens!

and then you see Shadow Chronicles and wonder aloud why this is not being nominated for an Oscar for the third straight year in a row?

To me - it is hard to imagine that the second type of person exists.

I watch Doug Bendo on youtube. I don't even need to listen to what he is saying - it is enough to look at his desk. His screensaver is some splash from Robotech...but...where are the awesome figures? Where is the collection?

Who out there is proud of and cherishes their "MASTERPIECE" Robotech collection? Where is the "strike a pose" thread for those and on what forum?

Where are the gamers who can't get enough of piloting their "veritech fighters" into battle? Oh...they're all playing Macross VF-X?...ooops...

See - this is the problem with being a 'Robotech Fan' - it is NOT POSSIBLE.

By definition - a fan is someone seriously commited - and if you're going to seriously commit to Robotech - it will lead you to Macross.

At which point you either decide to leave your brain at the door and just believe everything Harmony Gold says OR...you begin to really enjoy Macross...and start building Frontier kits and striving for the latest Yamato release and singing along to Sheryl and Ranka's songs...

Somebody tell me I'm wrong here and show me some good, high quality Robotech fan sites and fanfiction and fan art and fan discussion?

Somebody point me to a thread full of serious analysis of the Robotech novels?

That's a fairly big body of literature...and it seems nobody cares about it at all?

It's hard to care for something that turned out to be the 1980s equivalent of bootlegged pirate DVDs from Tanzania.

Pete

Pete

Sure, I will take a shot at it. If Robotech fandom leads one to an orignal form of the sagas, my pilgrimage wouldnt go towards swing-wing Valks' it would be toward Alphas and Betas and Cyclones! OH MY! (Just imagine the Wizard of Oz scene there.). I love that mecha the best, the backdoor storyline of redemption is good as well. There is a history that is worked between the meshing of the three stories. Transformers itself is a borrowed product made into its own story, you do know this, right?

I do give credit where it is due however. I own four MPC Valks (including fastpacks for two) (got Ben Dixons for 30 bux including shipping on E-bay), theyre nice. I Also own nine MPC-Alphas and Three Betas with a smidgen of a single Aoshima Alpha to be sure (As well as a Rand Cyclone,not the Beagle or Toynami, the brand eludes my head at the moment.). All roads dont lead back to Macross from Robotech, some do, but not all. And if youve ever been on their site you'd have seen I am far from the park my brain at the door sort of guy.

Whats Macross VF-X? Is that a Playstation thingie game? (dont have a game console myslef).

There are also different levels of fandom. There are the guys who go in debt to buy everything a product has, the guys who buy what they can afford and really, really want. And the guy who courts his girlfriend with love poetry , all in its original Klingon. You can be a fan and still have an open mind to other things. You can be equally satisfied with a Reflex Cannon volley, or firing off the Wave Motion Gun or watching the awe of firepower and destruction from Lina Inverse firing off a Dragonslave, can we not?

[Einherjar]

Whats Macross VF-X? Is that a Playstation thingie game? (dont have a game console myslef).

PS1 Macross game, there were 2 of them. One was supposed to come out in the U.S., but HG stopped that from happening. It only exists in demo form on a PSM disc.

He might be talking about Macross VOXP, a PC multiplayer fighter sim. Fans went through the trouble of turning it into Robotech VOXP through conversions. It sounds like they just translated it to English and replaced the music and sound effects to match Robotech. Classy.

[Gubaba]

PS1 Macross game, there were 2 of them. One was supposed to come out in the U.S., but HG stopped that from happening. It only exists in demo form on a PSM disc.

He might be talking about Macross VOXP, a PC multiplayer fighter sim. Fans went through the trouble of turning it into Robotech VOXP through conversions. It sounds like they just translated it to English and replaced the music and sound effects to match Robotech. Classy.

Enh. It's still classier than this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfwj2IVc4OI

I have NO IDEA why someone would make such a video...

[RedWolf]

Some of your facts aren't facts at all... in fact most of them aren't. Do check your facts before posting, or you'll end up as bad as the people we're having so much trouble with.

Big West sponsored Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, but the show was created almost entirely by Tatusnoko Productions, with mechanical design done by Tatsunoko-contracted studio Ammonite. Tatsunoko should, under the law, get both the production credit and intellectual property rights, as they did all of the animation and creative legwork (and the little creative work that was done outside Tatsunoko was done on Tatsunoko's dime). By all the evidence, Tatsunoko has every right to use and authorize the use of Southern Cross intellectual property, as its legal owners.

Thank you for the interpretation I understand better now.

But it still means Tatsunoko lost money on Southern Cross on not being very profitable.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Enh. It's still classier than this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfwj2IVc4OI

I have NO IDEA why someone would make such a video...

Do you have an issue with reba west.

Granted she is annoying and her singing voice is not the greatest. But it's not her fault someone else has horrible music taste.

It could always be worse Vic Mignogna could be singing instead or doing the voice of Hikaru Ichijyo.... too late.

[Keith]

Not liking Reba West has nothing to do with musical taste's, and everything to do with shitty dubbing.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Not liking Reba West has nothing to do with musical taste's, and everything to do with shitty dubbing.

good point.

in mentioning bad dubs. If you liked soul eater. Funimation has done a cast for the dub.....it looks painful already.

[Gubaba]

Do you have an issue with reba west.

Granted she is annoying and her singing voice is not the greatest. But it's not her fault someone else has horrible music taste.

It could always be worse Vic Mignogna could be singing instead or doing the voice of Hikaru Ichijyo.... too late.

I have nothing against Reba West. (Want proof? Check here: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=9275 )

I have EVERYTHING against taking Macross Zero (or II, or Plus, or 7, or Frontier, or DYRL) and trying to connect it to Robotech.

[BeyondTheGrave]

I have nothing against Reba West. (Want proof? Check here: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=9275 )

I have EVERYTHING against taking Macross Zero (or II, or Plus, or 7, or Frontier, or DYRL) and trying to connect it to Robotech.

well that clears it all up(takes foot out of mouth).

[Einherjar]

I have EVERYTHING against taking Macross Zero (or II, or Plus, or 7, or Frontier, or DYRL) and trying to connect it to Robotech.

Yes, even if they shared similar qualities back in the day, Macross and Robotech are no longer the same thing. They're legally not related to each other either; it's now just one show riding the coattails of the continuing progress the other one makes. Sorry if fans like the mecha and storylines from a completely separate product and insist on trying to fit it into the other. That's what happens when a franchise only buys the core of its material rather than make it themselves.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Yes, even if they shared similar qualities back in the day, Macross and Robotech are no longer the same thing. They're legally not related to each other either; it's now just one show riding the coattails of the continuing progress the other one makes. Sorry if fans like the mecha and storylines from a completely separate product and insist on trying to fit it into the other. That's what happens when a franchise only buys the core of its material rather than make it themselves.

I don't even think it would be coat tails. more like a child trying to step in the footsteps of his father made in the snow.

[RedWolf]

Yes, even if they shared similar qualities back in the day, Macross and Robotech are no longer the same thing. They're legally not related to each other either; it's now just one show riding the coattails of the continuing progress the other one makes. Sorry if fans like the mecha and storylines from a completely separate product and insist on trying to fit it into the other. That's what happens when a franchise only buys the core of its material rather than make it themselves.

On the other side of the coin companies like Hasbro and Takara-Tomy (formerly just Takara before the merger) are competitive with their Transformers franchise despite ups and downs.

Unlike HG with Robotech that is static as hell.

[VFTF1]

Transformers itself is a borrowed product made into its own story, you do know this, right?

Oops. You're right. That kind of blows up my argument, or at least proves I'm not a fan of Transformers (going by my own definition of what consistutes a fan), since I haven't ever ventured to discover the full story of Diaclone...

Man - I hate it when I write a book's worth of arguments that all get blown up in one sentence...

Pete