HG and Robotech Debates

[Einherjar]

Instead of focusing on building a lasting business relationship with Japanese anime industry, they took the fanwank route and decided to masturbate to Robotech for the next twenty five years.

But isn't that opportunism? Robotech was trying to be revived in the 2000's by a bunch of new people who accomplished very little beforehand. It helped further their careers focusing on nostalgia up until Shadow Chronicles, but they are still making money out of it.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/opportunism

All their attempts didn't necessarily need to be successes, they just needed to make them some money.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Einherjar

[Freiflug88]

back on the topic of the LAM, could you imagine if the RT movie was anything like Space Balls?

The RT will be be exactly like Space Balls after all Mel Brooks was Carl Marcke's father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate.

Seriously though, I think Mel Brooks was at least some what familiar with Robotech: the Macross Saga when he made Space Balls. The fact that the movie came out 2 years after Robotech in 1987 and featured a giant ship named "Space Ball 1" that transformed into a giant humanoid seems too much to be mere coincidence.

[jenius]

Yeah, that's Kevin McKeever for you. Shame so many fans aspire to repeat his feat of getting hired by HG by kissing as much ass as possible. Just look at MEMO.

Whoa, watch your tongue! I'm currently enjoying a ban from robotech.com for two reasons: 1) I repeated what Tommy says at conventions (and even Memo heard what I heard and world knows we never agree) and 2) things I said here that Kevin McKeever didn't like.

You keep telling the truth and slamming Kevin and you're going to have one less place you can hang out online.

[BeyondTheGrave]

I personally don't see much sense in bad mouthing people at HG as "opportunistic" or anything along those lines, because to be "opportunistic" you first need - you know - an opportunity.

And really - these guys don't have that. Their biggest opportunity happened back in the 80s when they got the US rights for great anime and they had a golden chance not just to do something cool with it, but more importantly to forge a lasting relationship with Japanese anime companies that could have translated into a very fruitful relationship right now.

Independent of what we think of Robotech, I would remind everyone that for the time it was concieved, it seemed like a pretty good compromise with the necessities of TV syndication. Now - the problem is that HG are pretending Macross wasn't and isn't still its' own seperate entity and fighting to protect something arcane and fake, and making it more and more mediocre as they go along.

Really - they could have, if they actually tried to nurture a good business relationship, tried to bring over new Macross shows AS Macross. They could have tried to build themselves as the conduit of Japanese anime to the western market.

Instead of focusing on building a lasting business relationship with Japanese anime industry, they took the fanwank route and decided to masturbate to Robotech for the next twenty five years.

I don't really see anything "opportunistic" about this approach. More like "Lost Opportunity."

Pete

That would imply that someone over at HG has actual intelligence and a working brain. Not a Degree (not bad mouthing them just more so the individuals who have the degree and zero intelligence) actual intelligence.

And that may not exist in there world.

Edited August 28, 2009 by BeyondTheGrave

[taksraven]

The Yamato is special, it's the freakin' Yamato!

True, but the space battleship he is referring to in the Battle of Pluto is not the Yamato, its the pre-yamato cruiser that Kodai's brother saves by the kamikaze run.

Taksraven

[Seto Kaiba]

Whoa, watch your tongue! I'm currently enjoying a ban from robotech.com for two reasons: 1) I repeated what Tommy says at conventions (and even Memo heard what I heard and world knows we never agree) and 2) things I said here that Kevin McKeever didn't like.

Y'know, I'm really not that fussed about it. If it happens, it happens. I don't think it will, since I usually refrain from causing trouble over there, and I'm a well-known figure in the community known for helping new and old members alike, but if it does, it won't really be any skin off my back.

That would imply that someone over at HG has actual intelligence and a working brain. Not a Degree (not bad mouthing them just more so the individuals who have the degree and zero intelligence) actual intelligence.

In all fairness, there is one at least reasonably competent individual working on Robotech at Harmony Gold. Tommy Yune went to a top flight art school, and his early forays into comic books were actually pretty good. The problem is he's completely and totally out of his element trying to do sci-fi.

[Freiflug88]

True, but the space battleship he is referring to in the Battle of Pluto is not the Yamato, its the pre-yamato cruiser that Kodai's brother saves by the kamikaze run.

Taksraven

Exactly, It was Captain Okita's cruiser that Mamoru Kodai saved right before his Kamikaze run that I was referring to specifically.

Both the show and the ship itself had their fair share of "invincible unsinkable hero" moments. Then again they can get away with it when they have an an epic theme song sung by the voice of Joe the Condor.

[Wanzerfan]

NO! Only one man can play Exedor!

OMG, I just watched the whole clip, OJ could be Britai!!!

Who the hell is that? The only way that bastard can play Exedore is if they used computer graphics to shrink his happy ass.

The weird part is it's one of those spontaneous injuries with no explanation, like Vince's broken leg in RTSC. She was on the bridge, and the battle damage was all at the prow. The bridge was pristine, but somehow she suffered massive internal injuries that kept her wheelchair-bound for a year and caused her to miscarry.

Maybe some son of a bitch on the bridge got sick an tired of taking orders and tried to kill her, I don't know. Another reason to not like the new stroylines.

[HappyPenguins]

Whoa, watch your tongue! I'm currently enjoying a ban from robotech.com for two reasons: 1) I repeated what Tommy says at conventions (and even Memo heard what I heard and world knows we never agree) and 2) things I said here that Kevin McKeever didn't like.

You keep telling the truth and slamming Kevin and you're going to have one less place you can hang out online.

That's BS you shouldn't of gotten banned over that

[jenius]

That's BS you shouldn't of gotten banned over that

What I really got banned for was pointing out that Kevin was wrong. Whatever, that place is a den of misinformation at the moment and it's a whole lot less frustrating trying to set them straight than just ignoring the whole scene. I just checked the thread of my banning, Kevin seems to now be implying that I, a master seargent and not nearly enough free time to pull off that rank while loggin in under other names, had multiple accounts and since I didn't quote Tommy word for word exactly as it was spoken at Comic-con I was "putting words in his mouth." Yeah, right, somebody should put up the unedited film from Comic-con so everyone can hear Tommy say loudly and clearly that Shadow Rising will remain in pre-production while they wait to see what kind of roads WB opens up for the Robotech franchise. The man said it there and so it should be something we can say to all Robotech fans... but I think Kevin is still reeling from getting yelled at for calling the extended pre-production a "hiatus".

Y'know, I'm really not that fussed about it. If it happens, it happens. I don't think it will, since I usually refrain from causing trouble over there, and I'm a well-known figure in the community known for helping new and old members alike, but if it does, it won't really be any skin off my back.

If you ever decide to stand up to all the crap, I think your eventual banning will be good for you. You can only argue in circles with people who feel it is their duty to lie to the members of that forum for so long before you're wasting a ton of time and energy that can be sent on your own projects.

It's a shame that nothing will happen to prove how wrong everyone is about the rights issues over there (especially if the movie never happens). If the movie does happens Memo will make up excuses for why the Macross elements were abandoned way before he'll admit he was wrong. That's the kind of people you have to argue with there... not really a worthwhile venture.

[Keith]

Who the hell is that? The only way that bastard can play Exedore is if they used computer graphics to shrink his happy ass.

Damn you kids, you've never seen "Mork & Mindy" ? That is a character from the aforementioned show named "Exidor" that predates the Macross character by several years, and suspiciously has the same haircut.

[Jasonc]

Whoa, watch your tongue! I'm currently enjoying a ban from robotech.com for two reasons: 1) I repeated what Tommy says at conventions (and even Memo heard what I heard and world knows we never agree) and 2) things I said here that Kevin McKeever didn't like.

You keep telling the truth and slamming Kevin and you're going to have one less place you can hang out online.

You know what's funny about that??? It's the fact that there's more and more of that coming from them than ever before. The sad thing is, it really makes them look bad, because it puts them in defense mode, and most people realize that when you really have to defend yourself, there's something you are trying to defend. I've seen on other sites, this site get thrashed to pieces, and still has some of those same people on here. But, as it stands, no one makes a big fuss because this site doesn't need to be defended against. It stands on its own, and for the most part, its members have the confidence in knowing that this site that's dedicated to the franchise of Macross, can stand on it' own, just like the franchise itself. If you're gonna get banned from a site because they are so fragile in regards to opinions that go against what they feel, they're in the wrong business for sure. I'd say grow some balls, but that would imply that they even had that ability. That goes for the people running the site. I don't think Tommy gives a flying flip about the negative comments, but it seems the other two can't stand it, at least it appears that way. I've told Tommy back in the day when things sucked, as did my wife, and back then, he seemed to understand that it was done with constructive criticism attached. The other ones, and many of the fans, take constructive criticism as a personal attack, and label those, a "Macross Purists" for whatever that means.

Everytime I read one of them attempt to bash the Macross fans, I laugh, cause you don't see a bunch of whiny butthurt people over here complaining (although, there maybe one or two). What I am glad for, is the fans that I have befriended on rt.com. Those don't seem to be enthralled by the sissified antics of what seems to be the new emo fandom. those that are my friends from that site know who they are, and know that the bond goes beyond some bootlegged, disect and paste job anime. It may have been what caused some of us to meet, but not what made it last. For those that remember the 241st (Started in 05 AX) there's roughly about 12-15 that are still around. Just a shame that the good rt fans get overshadowed by the psycho fanboy others. I'd be quite embarassed if I was on that side of the fence.

[Seto Kaiba]

Kevin seems to now be implying that I, a master seargent and not nearly enough free time to pull off that rank while loggin in under other names, had multiple accounts

That seems to be their default accusation these days. Either they're so dense they don't understand a simple concept like dynamic IP addressing, or they just want to try and trump up charges to get rid of people that don't follow the party line.

Is your ban permanent, or just temporary?

The man said it there and so it should be something we can say to all Robotech fans... but I think Kevin is still reeling from getting yelled at for calling the extended pre-production a "hiatus".

This, I think, is the real reason for your ban... Tommy must've let slip something the public wasn't supposed to know, and now Kevin McKeever is doing damage control by calling anyone who repeats Tommy's statement a liar.

If you ever decide to stand up to all the crap, I think your eventual banning will be good for you. You can only argue in circles with people who feel it is their duty to lie to the members of that forum for so long before you're wasting a ton of time and energy that can be sent on your own projects.

I don't think I'll ever get banned, really... and I don't think it'll be necessary.

Lately, I've just gotten so sick of the paranoia from Harmony Gold about how the few remaining fans perceive the franchise, and the asinine behavior of the few remaining moderators, that I can't even muster the energy to get good and angry at these people anymore. With the current state of affairs, the Robotech franchise has fallen right off of my critical spectrum into the cold void of dispassionate loathing. It's like the reaction many people have when they see Paris Hilton... she's so obnoxious and disgusting that you just find yourself changing the channel without even having to think about it... it's almost a reflex. It's rapidly becoming that way for me and Robotech.com. Anytime I see a thread packed full of those same, few idiots who kiss Harmony Gold's ass all day, my first instinct is to close the browser or navigate somewhere else.

Reading MEMO and Maverick's posts in the legal debate thread over there is a lot like watching the Detroit Lions play football. They CLAIM to represent you, but more often than not you're embarrassed just to be associated with them, and you keep hoping someone with a brain will take over. They've posted some of the worst, most misinformed crap that I have EVER read. The really horrible part is they're the only ones who can't see how ridiculous their arguments really are. For whatever reason, they actually think they have a case and that they know what they're talking about. These are the people who hold themselves up as the representatives of the fanbase... the veteran fans who are supposed to be the best examples of what the fanbase is all about.

When that's all I have to look forward to by loading up Robotech.com, is my current attitude towards that site really that surprising?

Edited August 29, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Jack Verse]

I couldnt agree with you more, espically since i was reading the latest replies in that so called debate. I swear its like watching the Oakland Raiders play football. Just a big dissapointment but with less beer involved.

[VFTF1]

As the old saying goes -the best defense is a good offense.

Let me put this in perspective:

Imagine if instead of producing Macross Frontier and having Bandai and Yamato churn out Macross figures/toys/models, Shoji Kawamorii and a bunch of guys from Big West did nothing else but sit on Macrossworld.com, in THIS thread, arguing over and over and over that SDF Macross and DYRL were the greatest achievements of human culture in a thousand years, and proclaiming that "very soon" there will be a new Macross series and movie, it's "just around the corner" it's "all in pre-production" and Robotech sucks and Toynami sucks, and Gubaba - you get banned from this discussion for stating the obvious, and hey aren't Misa and Minmay just the bomb?

My point?

The guys at HG, Tommy Yune, Kevin McKeever and everybody else could really be spending their time more constructively. Don't have enough money to make a good series? Fine - write some good science fiction. Robotech novels were not half bad from a pure writing stand point, and writing science fiction novels is sure cheaper than making a live action movie. Heck - the one does not cancel out the other.

Oh - and all those fantastic artists they have on board? Maybe they could go about designing some new mecha? Heck - maybe they could go ahead and make some fanart portraying what the "veritech" fighters could look like in the live action movie?

I mean - on numerous Transformers boards, there was tons of fanfiction and fanart all the time.

But it seems that all the Robotech community is good at is banning people and proclaiming they own the rights to something fewer and fewer people care about.

Ultimately, what is really keeping Robotech down - and I say this not as a fan, but just as a casual observer - is the LACK of creative, interesting material coming out of that fandom. There are no interesting toys - the "masterpiece" line was a joke, basically a fairly decent re-deco/knock off of Bandai's original Valkyrie design. The Alpha fighters were interesting, but it's been how long since they came out? Yamato has managed to do three versions of the vf-1 in that time, improving on the sculpt, the design and the transforation technology in the process. Toynami has done what? Made a cheap mould and milked it for the last...what?...FIVE years now?

Again - I am not ragging on them for having few funds or financial trouble.

I am ragging on their marketing strategy.

I run a small business built from scratch so I know something about how hard it is to get an enterprise moving when you don't have a large cash flow, and lying to people, banning people, and failing to turn out good product/services in favor of vague promises of the Garden Of Eden to come around the corner aren't the way that you go about it.

I might eat my own words in the future when it suddenly turns out that Brad Pitt as Rick Hunter and Britney Spears (in her big comeback) as Lyn Minmey and Michelle Pfieffer as Lisa Hayes and Jack Nicholson as Captain Global and Arnold Schwarzenegger (in his big comeback) as Britai break all box office records with Robotech: The Live Action Movie.

But somehow, I doubt it.

Pete

[HappyPenguins]

The other ones, and many of the fans, take constructive criticism as a personal attack, and label those, a "Macross Purists" for whatever that means.

Especially any criticism regarding TSC for example. Some fans have been starved for something new for so long that they've become delusional and to them TSC was the next best thing compared to sliced bread. The whole labeling issue is just silly, they even label Seto a purist just because he's explaining to them that WB can't use the macross designs.

But not all Robotech fans are this crazy, it's just the die-hard fanatics it seems.

Edited August 29, 2009 by HappyPenguins

[BeyondTheGrave]

Damn you kids, you've never seen "Mork & Mindy" ? That is a character from the aforementioned show named "Exidor" that predates the Macross character by several years, and suspiciously has the same haircut.

Morky and Mindy was on Nick at Nite for a while. Didn't watch it due to my interest at the time did not involve TV shows good writing and a unique an original story line.

Now on the other hand I may give it a shot.

[Gubaba]

Especially any criticism regarding TSC for example. Some fans have been starved for something new for so long that they've become delusional and to them TSC was the next best thing compared to sliced bread. The whole labeling issue is just silly, they even label Seto a purist just because he's explaining to them that WB can't use the macross designs.

But not all Robotech fans are this crazy, it's just the die-hard fanatics it seems.

The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.

[Jasonc]

If ignorance is a good representation of the fandom, I'm glad I only see it from the outside. Sometimes, it seems like the blind leading the blind, no it is!!! What I find amusing is that for Maverick, the facts don't add up right for him. Then, there's that kid Pizza the Hutt, who's only contribution to the thread, is "you got owned", "you're a troll", and a "you tell em" attitude. Ignorance breeds ignorance, and it's painting a bad picture for the staff and fans over there.

The more diplomatic approach the mods could've taken is the simple, we agree to disagree, and "we'll just have to wait and see what happens". Even if they are wrong, at leastthey could've kept themselves from ruining more of rt's reputation. That's the route it should've gone, but instead, they've allowed themselves to get into argument, and to allow some stupid kid to keep talking over there. As I'm sure the staff and some fans read over here, if you really care about the Robotech franchise, save your other fans the trouble of looking bad, and put the false info to rest.

It's pretty obvious that if HG could use more things, like the name Zentraedi, and lineart in their new productions, they would've. Why would their legal team expressly say not to use anything Macross related in RTSC, which did occur? I don't know, maybe cause they CAN'T! I'm not gonna spend time trying to call out the staff there, but they need to either shed light on the subject (not from the spin side of it that is always done), or tell the mods to stay away from the subject. The mods are an extension of themselves, so what they say, is what the staff is going to say, and right now, it's making the entire staff of Robotech look very bad.

[Gubaba]

If ignorance is a good representation of the fandom, I'm glad I only see it from the outside. Sometimes, it seems like the blind leading the blind, no it is!!! What I find amusing is that for Maverick, the facts don't add up right for him. Then, there's that kid Pizza the Hutt, who's only contribution to the thread, is "you got owned", "you're a troll", and a "you tell em" attitude. Ignorance breeds ignorance, and it's painting a bad picture for the staff and fans over there.

The more diplomatic approach the mods could've taken is the simple, we agree to disagree, and "we'll just have to wait and see what happens". Even if they are wrong, at leastthey could've kept themselves from ruining more of rt's reputation. That's the route it should've gone, but instead, they've allowed themselves to get into argument, and to allow some stupid kid to keep talking over there. As I'm sure the staff and some fans read over here, if you really care about the Robotech franchise, save your other fans the trouble of looking bad, and put the false info to rest.

It's pretty obvious that if HG could use more things, like the name Zentraedi, and lineart in their new productions, they would've. Why would their legal team expressly say not to use anything Macross related in RTSC, which did occur? I don't know, maybe cause they CAN'T! I'm not gonna spend time trying to call out the staff there, but they need to either shed light on the subject (not from the spin side of it that is always done), or tell the mods to stay away from the subject. The mods are an extension of themselves, so what they say, is what the staff is going to say, and right now, it's making the entire staff of Robotech look very bad.

What I find so unfortunate about this whole debacle, here and elsewhere, is that it never should've turned into an ego contest.

You saw the same thing with Frontier, where people were vowing that, say, Alto would end up with Sheryl, and anyone who thought different was just an idiot. The expected outcome turned out not to happen, and a lot of people's egos got bruised.

Here, the fight over whether HG can use Macross designs or not has turned into a reputation war, almost a litmus test of "faith"...if you believe that HG can use Macross designs, you're a true fan. If you don't, you're not. And it really shouldn't be that like. It shouldn't even be a topic of debate; HG should come out and say either, "Yes, we can use original Macross designs," or "No, we can't," or even "Our lawyers are looking into this." That would have ended the discussion. But now, so many people's egos are on the line, that no matter what HG says, I don't think the ball will stop rolling.

Letting that Pizza kid run amok over what was initially a heated-but-reasonable debate seems like an unwise choice to me, but I'm not a mod there, so it's not my problem (thankfully).

Anyway, it'll all come to a head sooner or later if the movie comes closer to development. We'll learn if the aliens will be called the Zentradi, and if Lynn Minmay will sing or not. Until that time, all this bashing and hammering seems premature. I think the best way to view it is as a Schrödinger's Cat situation. We can theorize 'til the cows come home, but, pending some clear, unevasive response from HG, we won't KNOW the answer until the movie production is well underway.

In the meantime, let 'em believe what they want to believe. If even a million people believe a lie, it's still a lie. And the truth will out...eventually.

[Seto Kaiba]

The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.

Poetic AND accurate... can't fight that.

If ignorance is a good representation of the fandom, I'm glad I only see it from the outside. Sometimes, it seems like the blind leading the blind, no it is!!! What I find amusing is that for Maverick, the facts don't add up right for him. Then, there's that kid Pizza the Hutt, who's only contribution to the thread, is "you got owned", "you're a troll", and a "you tell em" attitude. Ignorance breeds ignorance, and it's painting a bad picture for the staff and fans over there.

The problem with Maverick_LSC and MEMO is that rather than examine the evidence of the legal situation and then form a conclusion based on that evidence, they STARTED with a conclusion (that Harmony Gold can use whatever they want) and then tried to ignore or reinterpret anything that contradicted that conclusion. It's like arguing with a creationist, no matter how much evidence you browbeat them with, they're going to hold up their crackpot theory as the absolute truth.

Pizza the Hutt is a whole other problem... if you ask me, the reason he hasn't gotten a permanent ban for his behavior so far has been because he's the only person in those legal threads who believes MEMO and Maverick's crackpot, provably wrong claims to be accurate. Of course, they're not going to shoot their own argument in the foot by banning the only person who believes them, no matter how poorly he behaves or how many rules he breaks. Because of that, he thinks he's been given carte blanche to do as he pleases and attack Macross fans for no reason. I get the feeling that kid's got some serious issues, and that he's defending Robotech so adamantly because he experienced real quality Macross (DYRL, Frontier), and it threatened to overwhelm his role-tinted memories of Robotech. So I think he's doing what he's doing to try and convince himself that he hasn't been wasting his time with Robotech.

It's pretty obvious that if HG could use more things, like the name Zentraedi, and lineart in their new productions, they would've. Why would their legal team expressly say not to use anything Macross related in RTSC, which did occur? I don't know, maybe cause they CAN'T! I'm not gonna spend time trying to call out the staff there, but they need to either shed light on the subject (not from the spin side of it that is always done), or tell the mods to stay away from the subject. The mods are an extension of themselves, so what they say, is what the staff is going to say, and right now, it's making the entire staff of Robotech look very bad.

Since when have they cared about how things looked? They've always depended on one tried and true strategy to keep themselves looking good in their own eyes... whenever something goes tango uniform, they blame whoever they were working with at the time. For Sentinels, it was Matchbox. For Untold Story, it was Cannon Films and Idol Co.. For Robotech 3000, it was Netter Digital. For Robotech: Crystal Dreams, it was GameTek.

How much y'wanna bet if the Shadow Rising movie goes under, they'll blame FUNimation (their old release partner), Warner (for holding the project up), or whoever they hire to animate it?

Here, the fight over whether HG can use Macross designs or not has turned into a reputation war, almost a litmus test of "faith"...if you believe that HG can use Macross designs, you're a true fan. If you don't, you're not.

It's pretty much ALWAYS been like that with Robotech fans... it's just never been this blatant. If you thought the new stuff coming out (whether it was the horrible comics, the mediocre novels, or the feeble sequel attempts) was great, you were a "real fan", and if you didn't, you were labeled a troll, a basher, a Macross purist, etc.

In the meantime, let 'em believe what they want to believe. If even a million people believe a lie, it's still a lie. And the truth will out...eventually.

The problem with the current state of affairs in Robotech is that even if the truth comes out, there will still be some people (like MEMO) who want to continue to believe the lie SO BADLY that they will make up other lies to try and somehow make the first lie true.

Just look at how MEMO is trying to hard to find an excuse for the absence of Macross references in Shadow Chronicles.

[Gubaba]

Poetic AND accurate... can't fight that.

Can't go wrong with Yeats, can you?

Since when have they cared about how things looked? They've always depended on one tried and true strategy to keep themselves looking good in their own eyes... whenever something goes tango uniform, they blame whoever they were working with at the time. For Sentinels, it was Matchbox. For Untold Story, it was Cannon Films and Idol Co.. For Robotech 3000, it was Netter Digital. For Robotech: Crystal Dreams, it was GameTek.

How much y'wanna bet if the Shadow Rising movie goes under, they'll blame FUNimation (their old release partner), Warner (for holding the project up), or whoever they hire to animate it?

Didn't Tommy already blame the "boob factor" of Shadow Chronicles on the animators...?

Just look at how MEMO is trying to hard to find an excuse for the absence of Macross references in Shadow Chronicles.

I have to say that this is, I think, not a good example, since the counter-argument (that SC was set so much later, and that they didn't want to confuse new viewers) holds up relatively well. At the very least, it's not going to convince anybody except the already-convinced. I'm not saying it's not true (it porbably is), I'm just saying that it's not so glaringly obvious that only a moron could fail to see it.

The court documentation is much more convincing, but requires a certain amount of patience to wade through...more than a lot of RT fans seem willing to give.

I dunno. I think we need some kind of really blatant, obvious smoking gun...and we don't have it yet. I think the movie itself will be the most obvious we can get.

And who cares if Memo keeps making excuses? What he believes or doesn't believe has no effect on the reality of the situation. If the RT movie contains no Macross elements, he can make all the excuses he wants. It won't change the fact that the majority of RT fans will be disappointed with the final product.

Just wait. The proof will be in the pudding. Assuming the pudding gets made, of course.

[Whamhammer]

"You know what's funny about that??? It's the fact that there's more and more of that coming from them than ever before. The sad thing is, it really makes them look bad, because it puts them in defense mode, and most people realize that when you really have to defend yourself, there's something you are trying to defend. I've seen on other sites, this site get thrashed to pieces, and still has some of those same people on here. But, as it stands, no one makes a big fuss because this site doesn't need to be defended against."

Exactly, Kevin McKeever and the gang are so much on the defensive they don't seem to see the difference between someone bashing thier product and someone stating an objective complaint or offering constructive critisim. More times than not there seems a disconnect that equates to them working harder to proove a fan wrong rather than listening to the fan, comprehending that fans concern and addressing it properly. Its easy to write off a fan/customer that is not in agreement with what the fan/customer sees and experiences as a naysayer or a troublemaker, harder yet to satisfy them once that person is branded that by ones remarks. All the Cannes film festival awards in the world dont do a thing to a saga when the follow up is off and the fans start feeling it, or even worse yet loose interest due to a lengthy follow up in product. I.M.H.O. , while they were making Chronicles , they should have already had the follow ups (at least wo) ready to go into production and set themselves up logistically for it even before producing Chronicles. It almost feels like the true problem has always been in the planning of these projects. I really feel that H.G. tries to look into the long term , but only sees the long term as one project at a time. Stories and sagas dont happen one at a time you plan them out and line them up first to fit together. This is what has many fans concerned as far as I see.

[azrael]

The problem with the current state of affairs in Robotech is that even if the truth comes out, there will still be some people (like MEMO) who want to continue to believe the lie SO BADLY that they will make up other lies to try and somehow make the first lie true.

Then, let them believe it. No use trying to convince them otherwise.

The court documentation is much more convincing, but requires a certain amount of patience to wade through...more than a lot of RT fans seem willing to give.

I dunno. I think we need some kind of really blatant, obvious smoking gun...and we don't have it yet. I think the movie itself will be the most obvious we can get.

In honesty, the court docs are our "smoking gun". But as you said, they don't seem to have the patience to sit there and read it, let alone understand it. Legal documents are written such that they are interpreted as literal as possible, so that there's no room for misinterpretation. In doing so, there's a certain amount of vocabulary that would give most people headaches. But it's suppose to cover the bases so that's why it's written like that. When you sign documents for work or the bank and they're a page or more, in font size 10, Times New Roman, with several paragraphs, take a moment to read those documents and you'll understand. Honestly, most people won't read those documents.

All the Cannes film festival awards in the world dont do a thing to a saga when the follow up is off and the fans start feeling it, or even worse yet loose interest due to a lengthy follow up in product. I.M.H.O. , while they were making Chronicles , they should have already had the follow ups (at least wo) ready to go into production and set themselves up logistically for it even before producing Chronicles.

As I understood it, they were showing RT:SC at the Cannes Film Festival to shop for a distributor (the Cannes Marketplace), not looking for awards. The Marketplace is a fairly common venue for studios looking for independent works to market.

[Keith]

As I understood it, they were showing the movie "outside' of the actual film festival, in nearby theatres, pretending they were part of Cannes.

[Jasonc]

Didn't Tommy already blame the "boob factor" of Shadow Chronicles on the animators...?

Yeah, in the last thread, I pointed out the situation where he blamed it on young Korean animators, which was basically throwing them under the bus for designs that they signed off as approved. The animators don't do stuff under their own accord, and especially when it comes ot characters, those are pre-approved by the people running the entire thing, namely, HG.

And, what you say Gubaba, seems pretty accurate. This whole pissing match over something that has already been defined is simply ridiculous. The only thing that could really fuel a false sense of fact, is if WB goes to BW and gets permission to use the designs, or names. While HG doesn't use them, perhaps WB would be able to do business with them and get that expressed permission. I'm sure to the fans not "pervy" (LOL) to how the legalities work, they'll translate that as HG being able to use all the Macross designs in their productions, even though it would be WB. Not saying this would happen, but that could be a possible outcome, far-fetched or not.

Ugh, what a mess. While it's semi-amusing to see some alpha-male fest of who can interpret and manipulate court rulings the best, While the staff do what they can to protect themselves and their image, I wonder if they realize that their extensions are degrading it for them. Oh well, people are people.

[VFTF1]

You guys don't nuderstand anything!

My cousin was a law school student before droping out and going into the fast food business where he now MANAGES a Wendys, and he says that anything HG put on TV in America is the pervperrty of Americans not of Japanese people who bootleg everything from China anyways. ANd the animation errors in Shadow Chronicles ARE due to koreans and their horny animation techniques because it is a stated fact stated factually by Tommy during a Q & A at the last WonderFest that the whole problem resulted from a miscommunication and the exchange rate crash.

So instead of bad mouthing the greatest movie since Citizen Kane, you might as well just accept that Robotech is th best So there you guys.

Pete

[Whamhammer]

"As I understood it, they were showing RT:SC at the Cannes Film Festival to shop for a distributor (the Cannes Marketplace), not looking for awards. The Marketplace is a fairly common venue for studios looking for independent works to market"

You missed my whole point to what I was saying. All the awards (whic they love to mention when trying to show how sucessfull the project was) arent going to win over a customer base if they have no product and continue to whittle away at thier fan base in the way they respond to that fan base.

[Whamhammer]

"The only thing that could really fuel a false sense of fact, is if WB goes to BW and gets permission to use the designs, or names. While HG doesn't use them, perhaps WB would be able to do business with them and get that expressed permission. I'm sure to the fans not "pervy" (LOL) to how the legalities work, they'll translate that as HG being able to use all the Macross designs in their productions, even though it would be WB. Not saying this would happen, but that could be a possible outcome, far-fetched or not."

The truth of the matter is, with the proper negotiations, they can put up anything that is agreed to by all parties. If W.B. sweetens the pot enough they could replicate all of the imagery. But they dont need to. They can use a completely different design on the planes and ships. They can alter the names and storyline enough to where it keeps within the realm and doesnt bring about a law suit at the same time. They dont need to re-enact the episodes verbatum to do the movie. This isnt the problem that theyre going to have. The problem is a willingness to see the big picture a plan accordingly while portraying that that is what they are doing.

[Jasonc]

The truth of the matter is, with the proper negotiations, they can put up anything that is agreed to by all parties. If W.B. sweetens the pot enough they could replicate all of the imagery. But they dont need to. They can use a completely different design on the planes and ships. They can alter the names and storyline enough to where it keeps within the realm and doesnt bring about a law suit at the same time. They dont need to re-enact the episodes verbatum to do the movie. This isnt the problem that theyre going to have. The problem is a willingness to see the big picture a plan accordingly while portraying that that is what they are doing.

This is a good point. What I was referring to, was that those that don't understand the court rulings would easily be misunderstood, is say, by some strange turn of events, WB strikes a deal with BW/SN to be able to use the lineart for works in the Robotech movie. I can just see all the naive fanboy rants, "see HG did own all of it, and they can use any bit of it they want", while again, being misled, and not understanding that this isn't a HG deal, but a WB deal that was struck. Wether that happens exactly as I state it, or some other, smaller deal gets worked out, the facts would again, be misinterpreted. That's why I don't try to argue with the fans over there. It's like trying to make a dead horse walk.

[Gubaba]

You guys don't nuderstand anything!

My cousin was a law school student before droping out and going into the fast food business where he now MANAGES a Wendys, and he says that anything HG put on TV in America is the pervperrty of Americans not of Japanese people who bootleg everything from China anyways. ANd the animation errors in Shadow Chronicles ARE due to koreans and their horny animation techniques because it is a stated fact stated factually by Tommy during a Q & A at the last WonderFest that the whole problem resulted from a miscommunication and the exchange rate crash.

So instead of bad mouthing the greatest movie since Citizen Kane, you might as well just accept that Robotech is th best So there you guys.

Pete

Well...I'm convinced.

[Keith]

You guys don't nuderstand anything!

My cousin was a law school student before droping out and going into the fast food business where he now MANAGES a Wendys, and he says that anything HG put on TV in America is the pervperrty of Americans not of Japanese people who bootleg everything from China anyways. ANd the animation errors in Shadow Chronicles ARE due to koreans and their horny animation techniques because it is a stated fact stated factually by Tommy during a Q & A at the last WonderFest that the whole problem resulted from a miscommunication and the exchange rate crash.

So instead of bad mouthing the greatest movie since Citizen Kane, you might as well just accept that Robotech is th best So there you guys.

Pete

With Sexy Results!

[Freiflug88]

You guys don't nuderstand anything!

My cousin was a law school student before droping out and going into the fast food business where he now MANAGES a Wendys, and he says that anything HG put on TV in America is the pervperrty of Americans not of Japanese people who bootleg everything from China anyways. ANd the animation errors in Shadow Chronicles ARE due to koreans and their horny animation techniques because it is a stated fact stated factually by Tommy during a Q & A at the last WonderFest that the whole problem resulted from a miscommunication and the exchange rate crash.

So instead of bad mouthing the greatest movie since Citizen Kane, you might as well just accept that Robotech is th best So there you guys.

Pete

I nevar knew thar wus any southr'n red necks up thare in Poland. I allways fiqared red necks wus just as american as Robotech and apple pie.

[Einherjar]

Important, Space Station Liberty back, live right now. The usual suspects logged on like always.

http://terrania.us/liberty/

Kevin is online.

Edited September 2, 2009 by Einherjar

[anime52k8]

Important, Space Station Liberty back, live right now. The usual suspects logged on like always.

http://terrania.us/liberty/

Kevin is online.

I cannot talk about that...

:edit:

they're not in this for a quick buck, seriously... (at least they're honest about how screwed comics are)

Edited September 2, 2009 by anime52k8