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Posted (edited)
Ah, yes. Janice and that other fellow. Janice was the only interesting character in the whole movie.

That doesn't speak well of the movie...

Yeah, they certainly did arrange a lot of the shots to better show off the "assets" of Janice, Ariel, and Maia. My favorite by far is the one where Louie and Janice are talking in Louie's lab and Maia comes in to see him, and he peeks out around Janice's ass (which takes up like 2/3 of the screen).

True to form, despite having essentially copied the movie's tone, several plot elements, and many of the mechanical designs from Battlestar Galactica, those elements taken from Carl Macek's Robotech II: the Sentinels are still imitating Star Trek. Did anyone else notice that Janice is a fairly obvious carbon copy of Data, right down to the way she talks? Heck, they even hired an actress from Star Trek to voice her. I really can't say that she's the most interesting character, since 99% of her purpose was sex appeal (note the slurmty dress from the lounge scene, and the multitude of T&A shots of her throughout the movie... more than any other character).

Still, that she easily ranks in the top three doesn't bode well for their staff of writers.

the problem with the staff now, from what I see, is their lack, or inability to create characters deep enough to sustain the interests of the fans. Marcus Rush??? That's seriously a good laugh. I understand what you are saying, and it's sad that they believe they can build their franchise around such a shallow character.

Take note, as with many other characters who are "new" in Sentinels and Shadow Chronicles, an arbitrary relation to a more important, pre-existing character is crucial to that new character's appeal. Here's a breakdown of several of the more blatant ones:

Vince Grant: Originally created for Robotech II: the Sentinels, as the father of Masters Saga bitch-boy Bowie Grant, and brother of Macross Saga bridge bunny Claudia Grant. In his first appearance, a two-dimensional cardboard cut-out of a character, and time has not improved him.

Marcus Rush: New character created for Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles. Brother of Marlene Rush, the dead girlfriend (and motivation du jour) of New Generation leading whiner Scott Bernard.

Maia Sterling: New character created for Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles. Sister of Masters Saga leading lady Dana Sterling, daughter of Macross Saga characters Max and Miriya Sterling, and de facto replacement for Sentinels character Aurora Sterling.

Janice M2: Nominally a new character created for Shadow Chronicles, more accurately a literal reincarnation of Janice Em, a character from Robotech II: the Sentinels.

If that was their goal, they've failed miserably. The people that stuck out of the movie, if even just slightly, was the staples that are already in place from the first series. Scott, Marlene, and of course, the geriatric version of Rick the Hunterrrrr.

Which was, of course, entirely the point of having them there... to give the movie some kind of appeal for the fans of the original. If they hadn't done that, 9/10ths of the fanbase wouldn't give a toss.

Edited by Seto Kaiba
Posted (edited)
the problem with the staff now, from what I see, is their lack, or inability to create characters deep enough to sustain the interests of the fans. Marcus Rush??? That's seriously a good laugh. I understand what you are saying, and it's sad that they believe they can build their franchise around such a shallow character. If that was their goal, they've failed miserably. The people that stuck out of the movie, if even just slightly, was the staples that are already in place from the first series. Scott, Marlene, and of course, the geriatric version of Rick the Hunterrrrr. What's bad with the feature film approach, is that you only have those 90 minutes to create a deep character, which can be done. But the problem with RTSC, is that there are so many other things that need to be covered, the character development got squashed down to almost nothing. Without a series, the franchise doesn't have the ability to expand the characters like a series can.

If anything it was forced development, especially with having his best friend die so soon. I'm hoping they weren't expecting the same reaction from the fans like when Fokker died.... because if you look at it like this, we as the audience got to know Fokker and like him, so when he died we were shocked and devastated. And when Alex died, it was different because we didn't get to know him at all, so no one really cared. Which by the way killing him off too quickly was a bad move in my opinion >_> but then again what do I know?

Also you are right, character development is best done in a series, which they should of looked into instead of a bunch of movies.

Yeah, they certainly did arrange a lot of the shots to better show off the "assets" of Janice, Ariel, and Maia. My favorite by far is the one where Louie and Janice are talking in Louie's lab and Maia comes in to see him, and he peeks out around Janice's ass (which takes up like 2/3 of the screen).

Yeah it seems the movie relied more on that rather than telling a decent story

Edited by HappyPenguins
Posted

capture%20small%203.JPG

Seriously, that red shirt has to work the poles as soon as she's off duty. The folks at the cafeteria must always wonder why she pays with glitter covered ones that smell like coconut.

Posted (edited)
Did anyone else notice that not even the word Zentraedi wasn't used in Shadow Chronicles?

Bingo, R use Aliens replace Zentraedi.

NO rights~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Edited by kresphy
Posted
And when Alex died, it was different because we didn't get to know him at all, so no one really cared. Which by the way killing him off too quickly was a bad move in my opinion >_> but then again what do I know?

When Alex died, nobody cared because it was so painfully obvious that he'd been marked for death that most of us were surprised he'd lasted almost the entire movie. He's like that guy in every horror movie who dies right after saying "Everything's going to be OK", or a red-shirted ensign beaming down to a hostile planet with Kirk, Spock, and McCoy... you just KNEW he was going to die.

Seriously, that red shirt has to work the poles as soon as she's off duty. The folks at the cafeteria must always wonder why she pays with glitter covered ones that smell like coconut.

Yeah, Tommy's background in the American comic book industry really shows in the character and mecha designs of Shadow Chronicles. All of the men, regardless of age, are absurdly buff and handsome. All of the women, regardless of age (or species), have perfect hourglass figures and improbably large, gravity-defying breasts. The aliens are all your standard DC/Marvel fare... evil robots, anthropomorphic animals (dogs, bears, etc.), amazons, rock people, coneheads, etc. The mecha and ships are all boxy, with Star Trek-style touchpad controls. I could go on like this for ages...

Posted
When Alex died, nobody cared because it was so painfully obvious that he'd been marked for death that most of us were surprised he'd lasted almost the entire movie. He's like that guy in every horror movie who dies right after saying "Everything's going to be OK", or a red-shirted ensign beaming down to a hostile planet with Kirk, Spock, and McCoy... you just KNEW he was going to die.

Yeah, Tommy's background in the American comic book industry really shows in the character and mecha designs of Shadow Chronicles. All of the men, regardless of age, are absurdly buff and handsome. All of the women, regardless of age (or species), have perfect hourglass figures and improbably large, gravity-defying breasts. The aliens are all your standard DC/Marvel fare... evil robots, anthropomorphic animals (dogs, bears, etc.), amazons, rock people, coneheads, etc. The mecha and ships are all boxy, with Star Trek-style touchpad controls. I could go on like this for ages...

Yeah, there's no diversity at all :|

Posted (edited)

Just for yuks, I fired up WinDVD and fast-forwarded thru Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles and took some screen captures that best illustrate the movie's juvenile obsession with tits and ass. Those folks at Harmony Gold know their target market frighteningly well... the 30-something die-hard Robotech fans who've never seen a naked women without paying for the privilege, and the pocky-garling 12-17 year old Naruto fans who'll be in the same boat in a decade or two.

So, with no further mucking about... enjoy my montage entitled "Let them eat (cheese)cake..

EDIT: I just noticed... the "boob windows" in Janice and Ariel's uniforms get bigger and bigger as the movie goes on...

post-2536-1251434238_thumb.jpg

Edited by Seto Kaiba
Posted
Just for yuks, I fired up WinDVD and fast-forwarded thru Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles and took some screen captures that best illustrate the movie's juvenile obsession with tits and ass. Those folks at Harmony Gold know their target market frighteningly well... the 30-something die-hard Robotech fans who've never seen a naked women without paying for the privilege, and the pocky-garling 12-17 year old Naruto fans who'll be in the same boat in a decade or two.

So, with no further mucking about... enjoy my montage entitled "Let them eat (cheese)cake..

EDIT: I just noticed... the "boob windows" in Janice and Ariel's uniforms get bigger and bigger as the movie goes on...

LOL yeah I noticed that too

Posted
Yeah, Tommy's background in the American comic book industry really shows in the character and mecha designs of Shadow Chronicles. All of the men, regardless of age, are absurdly buff and handsome. All of the women, regardless of age (or species), have perfect hourglass figures and improbably large, gravity-defying breasts. The aliens are all your standard DC/Marvel fare... evil robots, anthropomorphic animals (dogs, bears, etc.), amazons, rock people, coneheads, etc. The mecha and ships are all boxy, with Star Trek-style touchpad controls. I could go on like this for ages...

It could always be worse. Rob Liefeld could have done the character art.

What could have been and be thankful it didn't happen or was ever considered!

Posted
Just for yuks, I fired up WinDVD and fast-forwarded thru Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles and took some screen captures that best illustrate the movie's juvenile obsession with tits and ass. Those folks at Harmony Gold know their target market frighteningly well... the 30-something die-hard Robotech fans who've never seen a naked women without paying for the privilege, and the pocky-garling 12-17 year old Naruto fans who'll be in the same boat in a decade or two.

So, with no further mucking about... enjoy my montage entitled "Let them eat (cheese)cake..

EDIT: I just noticed... the "boob windows" in Janice and Ariel's uniforms get bigger and bigger as the movie goes on...

At least there was a contrast between Ranka's and Sheryl's boobs in Frontier. Not all the women were stacked like Pamela Anderson. And with Klan you had the contrast in one person.

Taksraven

Posted

Not just contrast, but a self-awareness and dristance towards the whole notion of fanservice and t&a in anime. I mean, the Miss Macross episode was pretty laced with sarcasm and kind of making fun of the tendency in anime to use all of these big boobed girls.

On the other hand, there is nothing per se WRONG in using beautiful women. The problem with the women in Robotech is that they ARE NOT BEAUTIFUL!

See, take that red shirt in the above screen grab, the one who "works the pole" (supposedly). Look at her. Ok - so her tits can rival Pam Anderson. But then what? Her hair can rival Tom Seleck. Her face has about as much grace and femininity in it as Colombo. And her outfit?

Compare what these people wear to what uniforms SMS has? Also - compare the intelligence of having SMS be a private military provider and getting into the whole notion of the UN Spacey/government run military being less efficient then private providers (which, as I noted elsewhere, shows a consciousness of the times, just like SDF Macross had rationing in war time and it was shown that starting the restaurant in war, under those circumstances, was an unorthodox move that proved more beneficial than rationing and central control).

Robotech doesn't ever deal with that. Politics in Robotech is always static. Because once Rick Hunter becomes Big Leader, then politics doesn't have to happen. There don't need to be any complexities. Rick Hunter is the heroic leader and that's that.

Yeah - there is some rather decent stuff with General Edwards.

But that happens in the books.

Doesn't take place in Shadow Chronicles where it's just a bunch of people flying around in big ships.

Pete

Posted
capture%20small%203.JPG

Seriously, that red shirt has to work the poles as soon as she's off duty. The folks at the cafeteria must always wonder why she pays with glitter covered ones that smell like coconut.

OMG, Daria, what are you doing!

Posted
Not just contrast, but a self-awareness and dristance towards the whole notion of fanservice and t&a in anime. I mean, the Miss Macross episode was pretty laced with sarcasm and kind of making fun of the tendency in anime to use all of these big boobed girls.

On the other hand, there is nothing per se WRONG in using beautiful women. The problem with the women in Robotech is that they ARE NOT BEAUTIFUL!

See, take that red shirt in the above screen grab, the one who "works the pole" (supposedly). Look at her. Ok - so her tits can rival Pam Anderson. But then what? Her hair can rival Tom Seleck. Her face has about as much grace and femininity in it as Colombo. And her outfit?

Compare what these people wear to what uniforms SMS has? Also - compare the intelligence of having SMS be a private military provider and getting into the whole notion of the UN Spacey/government run military being less efficient then private providers (which, as I noted elsewhere, shows a consciousness of the times, just like SDF Macross had rationing in war time and it was shown that starting the restaurant in war, under those circumstances, was an unorthodox move that proved more beneficial than rationing and central control).

Robotech doesn't ever deal with that. Politics in Robotech is always static. Because once Rick Hunter becomes Big Leader, then politics doesn't have to happen. There don't need to be any complexities. Rick Hunter is the heroic leader and that's that.

Yeah - there is some rather decent stuff with General Edwards.

But that happens in the books.

Doesn't take place in Shadow Chronicles where it's just a bunch of people flying around in big ships.

Pete

In fact, did they ever explain how "Rick" suddenly massively outranked "Lisa" ??

Posted

I'm okay with boob play in anime but the female character designs in Shadow Chronicles were actually distracting on my first watching of that movie. It really did look like they took the same body and put different outfits on it to make different people. This wouldn't have been so noticeable if the one body they cut and pasted wasn't that of a banging porn star.

Posted
In fact, did they ever explain how "Rick" suddenly massively outranked "Lisa" ??

Yes, actually they did... in Robotech: Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles.

Lisa's originally an Admiral, and Rick's a Major General, but Rick takes over command (I know not how) after Lisa gets horribly injured (how, exactly is a mystery) when Edwards and the Regent attack the SDF-3 in 2043. She spends a year recovering from her injuries (which cause her to miscarry, so no Roy Hunter like in the old comics), and after that she resigns her commission, leaving Rick to command the REF, and joining the Sentinels Council as Earth's representative.

Posted
If anything it was forced development, especially with having his best friend die so soon. I'm hoping they weren't expecting the same reaction from the fans like when Fokker died.... because if you look at it like this, we as the audience got to know Fokker and like him, so when he died we were shocked and devastated. And when Alex died, it was different because we didn't get to know him at all, so no one really cared. Which by the way killing him off too quickly was a bad move in my opinion >_> but then again what do I know?

Out of that whole waste of time, I did think Alex was the best character. He seemed like the only character to have some cahones in the story. If anything, he seemed like a salvagable character. The idea of changing Aurora to Maia was a joke, and made no sense. I think that was done simply cause they wanted to. I think I was more upset with him dying cause he was the only good character, while the rest seemed like forced puppets in a flat story.

If Robotech was to simply move out from the lingering strings, and create an in-depth story, characters, and even new mecha, I could support that. But the logic they are following will not do that. And unfortunately, for a good, sound money making reason.

Posted
Yes, actually they did... in Robotech: Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles.

Lisa's originally an Admiral, and Rick's a Major General, but Rick takes over command (I know not how) after Lisa gets horribly injured (how, exactly is a mystery) when Edwards and the Regent attack the SDF-3 in 2043. She spends a year recovering from her injuries (which cause her to miscarry, so no Roy Hunter like in the old comics), and after that she resigns her commission, leaving Rick to command the REF, and joining the Sentinels Council as Earth's representative.

Weak!

Posted (edited)
Weak!

The weird part is it's one of those spontaneous injuries with no explanation, like Vince's broken leg in RTSC. She was on the bridge, and the battle damage was all at the prow. The bridge was pristine, but somehow she suffered massive internal injuries that kept her wheelchair-bound for a year and caused her to miscarry.

Edited by Seto Kaiba
Posted

It's just poor writing. Let's face it, HG is pretty much just a staff of fans. Some fans have computer skills, those become the web guys. Some fans have an art background, they become the creative guys. Some fans were just sycophants.. and they're still just sycophants. Honest question here, besides creating Shadow Chronicles, had anyone at HG ever written anything of note before?

Posted (edited)
The weird part is it's one of those spontaneous injuries with no explanation, like Vince's broken leg in RTSC. She was on the bridge, and the battle damage was all at the prow. The bridge was pristine, but somehow she suffered massive internal injuries that kept her wheelchair-bound for a year and caused her to miscarry.

Well, to be fair, being on the Bridge in a Robotech ship is the absolute most dangerous place you can be. Hell, nearly all of the original bridge crew died when the Daedelus arm was hit in the original series :)

I think they're designed like those ST:NG bridges where nothing is grounded, and any hit the ship takes automatically surges up to the bridge and kills anyone near a panel.

Macross bridges on the other hand are the safest place in the universe. Hell, in Macross II, the whole ship went up, but the bridge coasted down to safety.

Edited by Keith
Posted
n fact, did they ever explain how "Rick" suddenly massively outranked "Lisa" ??

I read a Jack MicKinney novel, the Zendradi Rebellion, where Rick is just promoted to command and that's it. Also, in the Robotech Sentinels that was finished, Rick is grappling with being given command of everything.

All in all, they basically take "Rick" and "Lisa's" relationship and turn it into a bloody soap opera.

In Macross, we had a love story, a romantic story, and it knew when to end. Robotech transforms this love story into Days of Our Lives.

Pete

Posted
It's just poor writing. Let's face it, HG is pretty much just a staff of fans.

Common knowledge, yeah.

Some fans have computer skills, those become the web guys.

Who are you referring to here? The construction of Robotech.com was contracted out to a design firm. You can't possibly mean Steve Yun, since his degree is in creative writing, and his only other noteworthy experience was a brief stint as a digital animator.

Some fans have an art background, they become the creative guys.

Tommy Yune actually went to a really good art school... the problem is he just can't do sci-fi. He was fine s'long as he was doing someone else's universe (Speed Racer, Superman), but ask him to create original sci-fi content and you're out of luck.

Some fans were just sycophants.. and they're still just sycophants.

Yeah, that's Kevin McKeever for you. Shame so many fans aspire to repeat his feat of getting hired by HG by kissing as much ass as possible. Just look at MEMO.

Honest question here, besides creating Shadow Chronicles, had anyone at HG ever written anything of note before.

Tommy Yune did that one Buster the Amazing Bear series that was supposedly really good, but other than that he's done nothing noteworthy or remarkable. His time as Robotech creative director has been marked mostly by reuse of Sentinels concepts dreamed up by Carl Macek and the Waltrips. Everyone else's credentials are a cavalcade of mediocrity.

Posted (edited)
Well, to be fair, being on the Bridge in a Robotech ship is the absolute most dangerous place you can be. Hell, nearly all of the original bridge crew died when the Daedelus arm was hit in the original series :)

I thought that the bridge crew survived that impact?? Didn't they only die in the Robotech version?

Taksraven

Edit: Or are you just talking about RT as opposed to Macross?

Edited by taksraven
Posted
I thought that the bridge crew survived that impact?? Didn't they only die in the Robotech version?

We're only talking about the Robotech version here... where the entire bridge crew (except Lisa, who was pushed into an escape pod) bought the farm during the final ep.

Posted
The weird part is it's one of those spontaneous injuries with no explanation, like Vince's broken leg in RTSC. She was on the bridge, and the battle damage was all at the prow. The bridge was pristine, but somehow she suffered massive internal injuries that kept her wheelchair-bound for a year and caused her to miscarry.

To be honest every Sci-Fi show animated or Live action has their utterly ridiculous moments especially with regards to near invincible "hero" ships. Take Space Battleship Yamato for instance: great show, but very unrealistic. In the Battle of Pluto Captain Okita's ship suffers about 3 direct hits from the main cannons of Gamillion Crusiers then another direct hit blows a huge circular hole in the side of the bridge. A bridge officer gets sucked out into space then the camera moves to a shutter sealing off a hallway to the engine block that was blown open, when the camera moves back to the bridge all we see is that Captian Okita has an injured shoulder and that all the windows are cracked, but no sign of the huge hole in the bridge room. Oh, and then it only takes Okita's crippled ship 3 days and 3 hours to reach Mars to pick up Kodai and Shima.

Posted
It's just poor writing. Let's face it, HG is pretty much just a staff of fans. Some fans have computer skills, those become the web guys. Some fans have an art background, they become the creative guys. Some fans were just sycophants.. and they're still just sycophants. Honest question here, besides creating Shadow Chronicles, had anyone at HG ever written anything of note before?

I thought across the board these days HG and "friends" are filled with opportunists and sell outs to their own fandom.

Posted
The Yamato is special, it's the freakin' Yamato!

True. I am just saying EVERY show has their ridiculous and utterly impossible moments to get the plot moving.

Though to be honest in Robotech's case having Lisa suffer massive internal injuries, losing her baby, and being bound by a wheelchair as a result of the SDF-3 being shaken violently by an attack sounds like a textbook "women stuffed in the refrigerator" comic book moment to me considering that the worst thing that ever happened to Captain Global while the SDF was just being shaken about was dropping his hat.

What is even sadder is that everyone in Robotech is portrayed as comic book hero physiques in Sentinels. If Lisa was portrayed as an old women in a frail degenerative body then injuries from a roller coaster ride in the captain's chair would be believable, but having her build as a short wonder woman and then getting injured from such a trivial thing just proves all those muscles are just there for show.

Posted

I personally don't see much sense in bad mouthing people at HG as "opportunistic" or anything along those lines, because to be "opportunistic" you first need - you know - an opportunity.

And really - these guys don't have that. Their biggest opportunity happened back in the 80s when they got the US rights for great anime and they had a golden chance not just to do something cool with it, but more importantly to forge a lasting relationship with Japanese anime companies that could have translated into a very fruitful relationship right now.

Independent of what we think of Robotech, I would remind everyone that for the time it was concieved, it seemed like a pretty good compromise with the necessities of TV syndication. Now - the problem is that HG are pretending Macross wasn't and isn't still its' own seperate entity and fighting to protect something arcane and fake, and making it more and more mediocre as they go along.

Really - they could have, if they actually tried to nurture a good business relationship, tried to bring over new Macross shows AS Macross. They could have tried to build themselves as the conduit of Japanese anime to the western market.

Instead of focusing on building a lasting business relationship with Japanese anime industry, they took the fanwank route and decided to masturbate to Robotech for the next twenty five years.

I don't really see anything "opportunistic" about this approach. More like "Lost Opportunity."

Pete

Posted
I personally don't see much sense in bad mouthing people at HG as "opportunistic" or anything along those lines, because to be "opportunistic" you first need - you know - an opportunity.

And really - these guys don't have that. Their biggest opportunity happened back in the 80s when they got the US rights for great anime and they had a golden chance not just to do something cool with it, but more importantly to forge a lasting relationship with Japanese anime companies that could have translated into a very fruitful relationship right now.

Independent of what we think of Robotech, I would remind everyone that for the time it was concieved, it seemed like a pretty good compromise with the necessities of TV syndication. Now - the problem is that HG are pretending Macross wasn't and isn't still its' own seperate entity and fighting to protect something arcane and fake, and making it more and more mediocre as they go along.

Really - they could have, if they actually tried to nurture a good business relationship, tried to bring over new Macross shows AS Macross. They could have tried to build themselves as the conduit of Japanese anime to the western market.

Instead of focusing on building a lasting business relationship with Japanese anime industry, they took the fanwank route and decided to masturbate to Robotech for the next twenty five years.

I don't really see anything "opportunistic" about this approach. More like "Lost Opportunity."

Pete

Yeah...it kind of reminds me of the scene in the Muppet Movie where they pick up Gonzo, who's on his way to...Kalamazoo or Albuquerque or someplace like that. The other muppets ask him why he's going there, and he says "To be a movie star!" One of them asks, "Souldn't you go to Hollywood for that?" And Gonzo replies, "Oh, sure...if you want to do it the EASY way!"

Posted
back on the topic of the LAM, could you imagine if the RT movie was anything like Space Balls? :p

That sounds like Pizza the Hutt's dream come true! ^_^

Hell, he could even have a role in the film...

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