HG and Robotech Debates

[DarrinG]

I think there's an interesting conversation to be had about what a Robotech movie based on The Macross Saga could be. I don't feel at all that it would have to be a failure and I'm absolutely convinced that it's the perception that it would be a failure that gets all the RT fans whipped up into a furor. Well, it's that and the overwhelming disappointment they feel when they're told that the movie wouldn't be at all a faithful representation of the cartoon. I guess it that's a one-two punch that hurts:

"I want the Robotech Movie to be just like The Macross Saga."

> "Uh, actually it's going to be a complete re-imagining."

"What? That's lame.... well it better have the Zentraedi, Roy Fokker, and Minmay in it still!"

> "Uh, actually, it can't... not without some seriously big re-imagining and renaming."

"Screw you! You're wrong! I won't listen to reason! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!"

I think its still possible, however remote, that WB could strike a deal with BW that allows them things we don't think they'll be allowed to do.

I agree it will be seriously "re-imagined" -- but we may also see some shocking details left IN . . .

[MacrossCN]

Then they can take over the governments and finally all life will be Robotech.

hahahahahaha~~~~

[DarrinG]

HA! I just read some of that RB.com thread - had a LOL moment . . .

PIZZA THE HUTT - "By the way, Frontier ripped off some things from Shadow Chronicles"

MICRONIAN ACE - "I really hope the crackpipe doesn't burn you . . ."

!! (priceless)

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...enumber=17#post

[Duke Togo]

Wow, the dude types everything out like HK-47 would speak in KotOR... that's really sad.

This thread is kinda like reading a tabloid. Its hard not to look. I know no one gives a flying flarn what I think, but I think we need to distance ourselves from this. This kinda shite isn't what MW is about. I understand to a certain degree that having this thread keeps this sort of silliness away from the rest of the forum, but geez. This just really seems beneath us.

[azrael]

HA! I just read some of that RB.com thread - had a LOL moment . . .

PIZZA THE HUTT - "By the way, Frontier ripped off some things from Shadow Chronicles"

MICRONIAN ACE - "I really hope the crackpipe doesn't burn you . . ."

And I care what they yap about... why?

-Roy Fokker: Absolutely has to go. Likely outcome (here's one for free Yune), change his name to "Roy Hunter," and make him "Rick's" actual brother.

Nah, they need a "mentor"-type character for Lick Hunter to go emo about when he dies.

-Lynn Minmay: Again, absolutely has to change, anything would really do.

What? Make her more whiny than they already did?

-Britai & Exedor: Again, absolutely needs to change, and while they're at it, just integrate the male/female alien fleet all together. Take away the Macross "Protoculture" aspect, save some screen time, etc.

Nah, they'll just move Britai's eyepatch to the other side of his face. See different. Or better yet, they'll just combine Britai and Kyron into 1 character.

And of course the hardest workaround, replacing the Valkyries. Likely outcome? Some type of Sparta/Legioss hybrid, maybe jazzed up with modern fighter stylings. Second hardest part? Giving their new alien named threat a line of ship & mecha designs. Solution? Blend in the attackers of Southern Cross with the heroes of Macross. Done right, the most downtrodden red headed stepchild of the robotech franchise could be its savoir. Have the Robotech Masters attack to start with, looking for their own downed ship, save some time, and leave an easy jump into a re-worked Mospeada story, followed by SC.

It would probably look somewhere in-between a F-14, a F-22, a VF-1, and a YF-24. Oh wait...I just described the YF-24 Evolution....

[Seto Kaiba]

I hope they make shadow rising and the RLAM and plenty of sequals to both so that they make a poo-ton of money, then they can buy up BW and spread Robotech everywhere. Then they can make even more money and buy out all the other animation studio's, then all the major Movie studio's and all the TV network,s until All media is Robotech. Then they can take over the governments and finally all life will be Robotech.

I think I threw up a little bit reading that...

What? Make her more whiny than they already did?

Wasn't that Carl Macek's alleged grand plan? To try and make some kind of point by having Minmay/Minmei be incredibly obnoxious, selfish, and stupid?

And I care what they yap about... why?

Well, there is the outside chance that someone WILL finally provide something that adds to the body of information we have on the limitations of Harmony Gold's claim on Macross outside Japan. Of course, as we discovered recently, to our scorn, many of those claiming to have such information were blowing smoke.

Edited August 25, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Gubaba]

I think I threw up a little bit reading that...

Just goes to show what a PROVEN lying Macross purist you are!

Well, there is the outside chance that someone WILL finally provide something that adds to the body of information we have on the limitations of Harmony Gold's claim on Macross outside Japan. Of course, as we discovered recently, to our scorn, many of those claiming to have such information were blowing smoke.

As you imply, that chance is remote.

There's something to be said for trying to force HG's hand and get SOMEONE official to say SOMETHING more specific than "we were not a party to the litigation" and "We own all rights to Robotech," but if they don't want to talk, they won't.

[Freiflug88]

I hope they make shadow rising and the RLAM and plenty of sequals to both so that they make a poo-ton of money, then they can buy up BW and spread Robotech everywhere. Then they can make even more money and buy out all the other animation studio's, then all the major Movie studio's and all the TV network,s until All media is Robotech. Then they can take over the governments and finally all life will be Robotech.

That's the plan. All life on earth goes Robotech then we bring everything back to the stone age with EMP. Humanity won't stand a chance...

I think its still possible, however remote, that WB could strike a deal with BW that allows them things we don't think they'll be allowed to do.

I agree it will be seriously "re-imagined" -- but we may also see some shocking details left IN . . .

Why strike a deal a BW when they can just take things from HG's pal Tatsunko if they can't fill in the gaps with their own creativity? That giant ship that humanity rebuild and now rips through alien ships while its surrounded by energy? Oh that is just the Super Dimensional Phoenix in Firebird mode. Minmay? Nah her name is Jun, but everyone calls her Princess.

Come to think of it maybe that is WB's plan for their other 80's pet project Voltron. They will just use their HG partnership to reach Tatsunko for permission to use Gacthaman to fill in the gaps left by the lack of Go-Lion copyrights. It will be like a Live Action S-Force from Megas XLR! http://www.guba.com/watch/3000036107

[Whamhammer]

Hi all,

Please excuse me if I dont use the interface so well, Im getting use to its set-up.

Some of you might, know me, some not. I am a Robotech fan, wouldnt go as far as to say Im a fanboy so much as some (for obvious reasons to those whove been on Robotech.com in the last year). If I may, please let me give my humble opinion on Robotech.

I first saw it in 85 and loved it, it was different than anything else on the air at the time and I loved the artwork and characters (most of them at least). The show actually showed that going to battle meant some amount of people wouldnt come back alive, so you better fight for a good cause and better fight to win. I was left waiting twenty years for more, grabbing the occasional thing here and there, watching other anime to try to get my fix calmed. I did watch Macross and one or two of its sequels from friends. it opened me to see Bubblegum Crisis and The Slayers (two of my fave's) and anime of its ilk, some good , some bad.

To be honest , I'm not a Macross (the original series and its subsidiaries as well as the portion in Robotech) series fan as much as the content of Southern Cross (Robotech Masters) and Mospeada (New Generation) , it just do it as much for me. That is my opinion, as much others have thier own, and I respect a persons right to have an opinion as much as the next guy. What I do enjoy about the Macross portion in Robotech is that it does work well for getting the ball rolling, it starts from the world as we world normally have and accepted it for and brought us into the real "transformable combat craft fighting space aliens" world, for that I am gratefull. I also believe that all anime projects ,to the most part, have helped each others popularity, and that Robotech with its alterations and combining of series to move a storyline that worked for introducing some Americans that may not have seen it (I think adding the commentator to add more in depth explanation to the storyline was a boon for the series). It has also alowed a divide to be created from the original series and the Robotech fans.

I would like to discuss my opinions on the divide. In regards to the Macross loyal, I am gratefull for the series that you enjoy so much and I would dare not criticize the series (or any other) other than to my interpretation of the series content (art/plot/script/etc). All that said, there have been some few people, who have in the past went over the the Robotech.com website, with no interest in Robotechs content with exception to bash it and insult thehabitants of the website and their enjoyment of the show and related items because of its "unoriginal/impure" origins. When I was there I tried to reason with them the differences between shows, and when that failed I would ask that they wouldnt return unless they wished to contribute in a more constructive manner. I also would have a quarell with those Robotech fans, or anyone else who would go to another "fansite" to bash it. I believe that all fans of different shows can co-exist without the flame wars. Most of us are adults. If you go to anothers website, please dont go there just to show how wrong someone is over there, especially if you dont consume the product. If you own a Mustang dont go Chevy owners websites just to tell the Camaro owners that thier cars are inferior to yours .

Now, that being said. I would like to comment on my disappearance from the Robotech community over the last while. I had been a loyal supporter of that website for sometime (about 4 years) , contributing this and that (sometimes to the mod's dismay) for a while, Im sure Steve and Tommy still have nightmares of me screaming "I WANT MY BETA!!!!" to this day ,lol. ( I am still waitng for Steve to personally present me my Beta in honor of me being the loudest-Beta-fan-ever award.) I would try to be loyal opposition when I felt it was neccesary.

When Shadow Chronicles release dragged on and on and on , somes fansexcitement turned to impatience and frustration.there was some descent to H.G., so deserved, some not. Eventually S.C. was released with raves and criticism, but the fan base wanted more (either it being for improvement or just more from Robotech). As time went on, they had a project name "Shadows Rising" but precious little more than that (after a year and a half).

There had been some people complaining about various issues with the Robotech product in various areas . The individual responsible with customer relations was getting a rough time from some of those that were discussing misgivings, which I felt pretty bad about. I put together a statement where I believed I would streamline some of the complaints and help bring along a betterunderstanding of why someof the customers were upset (I've spent a while in customer service and saw some of the things Ive learned from it.), I figuredit would help everything out and make things better, I honestly did, I would use some examples that Ive seen and try to explain why I believed the people who were complaining were unsatisfied.

I dont know what was behind the scenes on what was going on with the customer relations person, but he took it as I was attacking him and his company, buttoned up and fired back, not even taking into account that I might have been trying to help him understand the customers he was in discussion with. After four years online and twenty plus years of supporting the product, the person who stood as the representative of Harmony Gold and Robotech insulted me what he accounted to a few upset people and went kneejerk on convincing us how good his product was andthat we were wrong, that his customers were wrong.

There is a techniqque taught in many csr/csm classes called L.A.C.E.

L Listen

A Ask questions

C Confirm understandinf of the problem/situation

E Educate (some liketo call it empathize, etc.)

One of the biggest problem with companies today is that people dont listen, they dont try to understand whats going on, they take complaints personal (which I understand, to a point) and they must emerge on the winning side. But what is winning?If you proove the customer wrong without gleaning the solution, he/she doesnt feel like a valued customer and no matterthe product you risk loosing them, and turn an advocate away from helping. Which is what happened to me.

I am going try to turn this place into my new home and learn new things here and enjoy them, please excuse the weird sence of humor.

[Whamhammer]

As far as the L.A.M. , it should be as true to the original as it can. Theres no reason you cant keep the characters and plot.

I believe it would be a shame if the had to reset it and alter it from the original story line. Okay dont call them Zentraedi, you dont have to name thembut keep them square peg-round-hole giant humanoid aliens. Have a spaceship crash on an island , it doesnt have to be the Island of Macross (just dont make it the island of Manhattan, lol.) Keep Rick, keep Lisa , Global , Roy etc. they wont look exactly like them unless we do some real anotomical alterations. Sure the Veritech doesnt have to look exactly like the VF-1 does,it can be altered to be good looking and keep it in the spirit of it without getting sued, yopu could even do it off of the Raptor. I think keeping it in within the scope of the original is the best reciepe.

[taksraven]

Yeah, um. Okay.

Taksraven

[Moly_Sigang]

Hi all,

Please excuse me if I dont use the interface so well, Im getting use to its set-up.

Some of you might, know me, some not. I am a Robotech fan, wouldnt go as far as to say Im a fanboy so much as some (for obvious reasons to those whove been on Robotech.com in the last year). If I may, please let me give my humble opinion on Robotech.

I first saw it in 85 and loved it, it was different than anything else on the air at the time and I loved the artwork and characters (most of them at least). The show actually showed that going to battle meant some amount of people wouldnt come back alive, so you better fight for a good cause and better fight to win. I was left waiting twenty years for more, grabbing the occasional thing here and there, watching other anime to try to get my fix calmed. I did watch Macross and one or two of its sequels from friends. it opened me to see Bubblegum Crisis and The Slayers (two of my fave's) and anime of its ilk, some good , some bad.

To be honest , I'm not a Macross (the original series and its subsidiaries as well as the portion in Robotech) series fan as much as the content of Southern Cross (Robotech Masters) and Mospeada (New Generation) , it just do it as much for me. That is my opinion, as much others have thier own, and I respect a persons right to have an opinion as much as the next guy. What I do enjoy about the Macross portion in Robotech is that it does work well for getting the ball rolling, it starts from the world as we world normally have and accepted it for and brought us into the real "transformable combat craft fighting space aliens" world, for that I am gratefull. I also believe that all anime projects ,to the most part, have helped each others popularity, and that Robotech with its alterations and combining of series to move a storyline that worked for introducing some Americans that may not have seen it (I think adding the commentator to add more in depth explanation to the storyline was a boon for the series). It has also alowed a divide to be created from the original series and the Robotech fans.

I would like to discuss my opinions on the divide. In regards to the Macross loyal, I am gratefull for the series that you enjoy so much and I would dare not criticize the series (or any other) other than to my interpretation of the series content (art/plot/script/etc). All that said, there have been some few people, who have in the past went over the the Robotech.com website, with no interest in Robotechs content with exception to bash it and insult thehabitants of the website and their enjoyment of the show and related items because of its "unoriginal/impure" origins. When I was there I tried to reason with them the differences between shows, and when that failed I would ask that they wouldnt return unless they wished to contribute in a more constructive manner. I also would have a quarell with those Robotech fans, or anyone else who would go to another "fansite" to bash it. I believe that all fans of different shows can co-exist without the flame wars. Most of us are adults. If you go to anothers website, please dont go there just to show how wrong someone is over there, especially if you dont consume the product. If you own a Mustang dont go Chevy owners websites just to tell the Camaro owners that thier cars are inferior to yours .

Now, that being said. I would like to comment on my disappearance from the Robotech community over the last while. I had been a loyal supporter of that website for sometime (about 4 years) , contributing this and that (sometimes to the mod's dismay) for a while, Im sure Steve and Tommy still have nightmares of me screaming "I WANT MY BETA!!!!" to this day ,lol. ( I am still waitng for Steve to personally present me my Beta in honor of me being the loudest-Beta-fan-ever award.) I would try to be loyal opposition when I felt it was neccesary.

When Shadow Chronicles release dragged on and on and on , somes fansexcitement turned to impatience and frustration.there was some descent to H.G., so deserved, some not. Eventually S.C. was released with raves and criticism, but the fan base wanted more (either it being for improvement or just more from Robotech). As time went on, they had a project name "Shadows Rising" but precious little more than that (after a year and a half).

There had been some people complaining about various issues with the Robotech product in various areas . The individual responsible with customer relations was getting a rough time from some of those that were discussing misgivings, which I felt pretty bad about. I put together a statement where I believed I would streamline some of the complaints and help bring along a betterunderstanding of why someof the customers were upset (I've spent a while in customer service and saw some of the things Ive learned from it.), I figuredit would help everything out and make things better, I honestly did, I would use some examples that Ive seen and try to explain why I believed the people who were complaining were unsatisfied.

I dont know what was behind the scenes on what was going on with the customer relations person, but he took it as I was attacking him and his company, buttoned up and fired back, not even taking into account that I might have been trying to help him understand the customers he was in discussion with. After four years online and twenty plus years of supporting the product, the person who stood as the representative of Harmony Gold and Robotech insulted me what he accounted to a few upset people and went kneejerk on convincing us how good his product was andthat we were wrong, that his customers were wrong.

There is a techniqque taught in many csr/csm classes called L.A.C.E.

L Listen

A Ask questions

C Confirm understandinf of the problem/situation

E Educate (some liketo call it empathize, etc.)

One of the biggest problem with companies today is that people dont listen, they dont try to understand whats going on, they take complaints personal (which I understand, to a point) and they must emerge on the winning side. But what is winning?If you proove the customer wrong without gleaning the solution, he/she doesnt feel like a valued customer and no matterthe product you risk loosing them, and turn an advocate away from helping. Which is what happened to me.

I am going try to turn this place into my new home and learn new things here and enjoy them, please excuse the weird sence of humor.

Well, all i can say is it's not your loss, it's theirs. They lost a valuable fan who supported them for how many years. You and many other fans don't deserve to be treated that way, since part of Robotech's success was due to the fanbase's support.

anyway, WECOME TO MACROSSWORLD

[Ginrai]

anyway, WECOME TO MACROSSWORLD

Wecome indeed.

[MacrossCN]

As far as the L.A.M. , it should be as true to the original as it can. Theres no reason you cant keep the characters and plot.

The BIG problem is later Macross Series can not enter U.S.A, Euro and other market because HG.

[Save]

Wecome indeed.

I triple that!!! Welcome!

I was known as SaveRobotech here and boy did I get raked over hot coles when I first came here, but it has been great ever since.

[HappyPenguins]

As far as the L.A.M. , it should be as true to the original as it can. Theres no reason you cant keep the characters and plot.

I believe it would be a shame if the had to reset it and alter it from the original story line. Okay dont call them Zentraedi, you dont have to name thembut keep them square peg-round-hole giant humanoid aliens. Have a spaceship crash on an island , it doesnt have to be the Island of Macross (just dont make it the island of Manhattan, lol.) Keep Rick, keep Lisa , Global , Roy etc. they wont look exactly like them unless we do some real anotomical alterations. Sure the Veritech doesnt have to look exactly like the VF-1 does,it can be altered to be good looking and keep it in the spirit of it without getting sued, yopu could even do it off of the Raptor. I think keeping it in within the scope of the original is the best reciepe.

This is Hollywood we're talking about, and so we can expect the SDF-1 to crash land near New York or even L.A.

Rick Hunter will be an emo wuss, and the minmei type character will be a pop princess or R&B diva.

and as for the soundtrack, just be prepared for mainstream rap, and rock hits, especially linkin park. Can't have an emo Rick hunter without teh linkin park you know?

[Seto Kaiba]

To be honest , I'm not a Macross (the original series and its subsidiaries as well as the portion in Robotech) series fan as much as the content of Southern Cross (Robotech Masters) and Mospeada (New Generation) , it just do it as much for me.

You're probably in the wrong place then... this IS MacrossWorld after all...

All that said, there have been some few people, who have in the past went over the the Robotech.com website, with no interest in Robotech's content with exception to bash it and insult inhabitants of the website and their enjoyment of the show and related items because of its "unoriginal/impure" origins. When I was there I tried to reason with them the differences between shows, and when that failed I would ask that they wouldn't return unless they wished to contribute in a more constructive manner. I also would have a quarrel with those Robotech fans, or anyone else who would go to another "fan site" to bash it.

Feel free to stop me when I lose the plot here...

You didn't like that a few, belligerent fans of the original works criticize the Robotech adaptation on a site which also caters (albeit minimally) to fans of the originals, so you left there and came to a site devoted exclusively to the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross series and its sequels, which you say you don't even like very much, to defend Robotech from perfectly legitimate observations, criticism, and legal discussion?

Forgive me, but your logic seems to be horribly screwed up.

I dont know what was behind the scenes on what was going on with the customer relations person, but he took it as I was attacking him and his company, buttoned up and fired back, not even taking into account that I might have been trying to help him understand the customers he was in discussion with. After four years online and twenty plus years of supporting the product, the person who stood as the representative of Harmony Gold and Robotech insulted me what he accounted to a few upset people and went knee-jerk on convincing us how good his product was and that we were wrong, that his customers were wrong.

I can't imagine why you telling the marketing director how to do his job didn't go over well...

Still, that's par for the course as far as Harmony Gold is concerned. Their three great business strategies are to answer questions with an deliberately vague statement that only superficially appears to answer the question, to deny that criticism is legitimate or widespread in any way, and to shift the blame elsewhere when they can't simply write it off as the muttering of a few malcontents.

As far as the L.A.M. , it should be as true to the original as it can. Theres no reason you cant keep the characters and plot.

Yes there is. The reasons why not can be found here, and in copyright law:

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=29850

For what it's worth... welcome to MacrossWorld.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[jenius]

I kinda have to wonder if the mods at HG aren't intentionally misleading the forum members there. I wonder if Kevin and Tommy kinda gave 'em a pep talk and said "Listen, fans will probably ditch our brand if they hear we can't keep using the Macross designs so please try to keep people believing we can." I mean, I was never one before to believe that HG was that slimy but they did steal one of my pics for their convention tour and a few of their mods are acting so ignorant it seems like it has to be forced.

I wonder if they're really on to something. I wonder if Robotech's fandom would dry up in a huge way if people thought there was no hope of ever seeing a Zentraedi officer pod fight and Invid Royal Command Unit or something like that.

EDIT - I slipped in the stealing of my pic more for humorous reasons as it's kind of non-sequitor and I just like pointing it out

Edited August 26, 2009 by jenius

[Jasonc]

Welcome to the boards, Whamhammer. I remember when Save came to these boards, probably about the same time I did. I do remember all the remarks he got with the name. Anyways, years later, and here he is still going strong in the Macross forums. The good thing about Macross is that the universe has continued to expand, and continues to create and produce toys, shows, and so on. While I am a Robotech fan as well, I had no problems adapting here as well. Being a Macross fan first before watching Robotech, it was easy for me. I guess what I'm saying here is, it seems Whamhammer is here to share his experience, and see what this "Macross" thing is all about.

I did read the link to the license debate on rt.com, and woah, I mean WOAH!!! PTH doesn't seem to have the inteligence to know that Space Fold and Protoculture aren't trademarked or licensed titles, and seems to have free reign on bashing everyone who simply disagrees. Somehow, it's blasphemy to have a staff member shed some light on the issue at hand, and the mods aren't doing the job, and spreading some fanrumor as fact. Even reading some of the diehard RT fans try to correct the situation is getting ugly over there. Sad, it's a civil war over there. LOL

[Keith]

Nah, they'll just move Britai's eyepatch to the other side of his face. See different. Or better yet, they'll just combine Britai and Kyron into 1 character.

Oh no wait, what if they put a bucket on his head!

[Macross007]

I kinda have to wonder if the mods at HG aren't intentionally misleading the forum members there. I wonder if Kevin and Tommy kinda gave 'em a pep talk and said "Listen, fans will probably ditch our brand if they hear we can't keep using the Macross designs so please try to keep people believing we can."

Considering their past of liars, it would not surprise me. But don't worry. I know MANY Macross fans (Seto over robotech.com and robotechx.com is ONE of them of course) who are spreading the truth regarding the legal mess on the Internet as we speak. Like that, most robotech fans are not going to be fooled by harmony gold dirty tactics.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Macross007

[Seto Kaiba]

I kinda have to wonder if the mods at HG aren't intentionally misleading the forum members there. I wonder if Kevin and Tommy kinda gave 'em a pep talk and said "Listen, fans will probably ditch our brand if they hear we can't keep using the Macross designs so please try to keep people believing we can."

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that were the case...

It's common knowledge that the "Macross Saga" is far and away the most popular installment of Robotech, and that many of those who want to see Sentinels or the Shadow Chronicles continued feel that way because they want to follow the adventures of the "Macross Saga" cast, rather than the less-likable berks who came after. If the fans found out that Harmony Gold and Warner Bros couldn't use much of the "Macross Saga" for future works, it would almost certainly mean a massive drop in interest in future Robotech shows, and possibly a massive drop in interest in Robotech itself. Just look at the distribution of products produced since 2001... well over 3/4 of it is Macross-related... toys, apparel, comic books, statues, you name it. Southern Cross is almost nonexistent in their merchandise line, and Mospeada is a token handful of products compared to the huge amount of Macross stuff they've made. Even the sole New Generation comic "Robotech: Invasion" had to have a Macross-related mini-comic about Mars Base and the Zentradi in each issue to make sure it would sell.

For all the empty talk about how Robotech is a whole greater than the sum of its parts, the reality of the merchandising indicates that Robotech has largely been coasting on the success of Macross, and that without it, they have little in the way of future prospects.

Considering their past of liars, it would not surprise me. But don't worry. I know MANY Macross fans (Seto over robotech.com and robotechx.com is ONE of them of course) who are spreading the truth regarding the legal mess on the Internet as we speak. Like that, most robotech fans are not going to be fooled by harmony gold dirty tactics.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that Steve, Tommy, and Kevin are lying... their remarks are, as far as I can tell, truthful. Deliberately misleading, yes, but still truthful. Remarks like "we have all the international rights" and "we own everything Robotech" give the average fan the mistaken impression that Harmony Gold has the right to do whatever they want with all the content of the original works as well.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[HappyPenguins]

It's common knowledge that the "Macross Saga" is far and away the most popular installment of Robotech, and that many of those who want to see Sentinels or the Shadow Chronicles continued feel that way because they want to follow the adventures of the "Macross Saga" cast, rather than the less-likable berks who came after. If the fans found out that Harmony Gold and Warner Bros couldn't use much of the "Macross Saga" for future works, it would almost certainly mean a massive drop in interest in future Robotech shows, and possibly a massive drop in interest in Robotech itself. Just look at the distribution of products produced since 2001... well over 3/4 of it is Macross-related... toys, apparel, comic books, statues, you name it. Southern Cross is almost nonexistent in their merchandise line, and Mospeada is a token handful of products compared to the huge amount of Macross stuff they've made. Even the sole New Generation comic "Robotech: Invasion" had to have a Macross-related mini-comic about Mars Base and the Zentradi in each issue to make sure it would sell.

For all the empty talk about how Robotech is a whole greater than the sum of its parts, the reality of the merchandising indicates that Robotech has largely been coasting on the success of Macross, and that without it, they have little in the way of future prospects.

while this is true, it can change and you know how? First, someone needs to create a story that is original, with characters that people will actually give a damn about. They need something that can take the series in a whole new direction, without losing the appeal that made the original series what it is.

Robotech can't continue relying on the original characters for all of its future works. Rick Hunter has to die sometime, right?

[Seto Kaiba]

while this is true, it can change and you know how? First, someone needs to create a story that is original, with characters that people will actually give a damn about. They need something that can take the series in a whole new direction, without losing the appeal that made the original series what it is.

Good luck with that... you'll probably have an easier time convincing the entire Harmony Gold "creative staff" to commit seppuku. There wasn't much original about the "original" series, for the obvious reasons, and most of what came after just imitated whatever mainstream sci-fi series was popular at the time. Robotech II: the Sentinels was modeled on Star Trek, Robotech 3000 was modeled on the generic CG action shows of the late 90's (Roughnecks, ReBoot), and Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles was modeled on the reimagined Battlestar Galactica. Even many of the comics stole stories, characters, and mecha from other shows. The only parts of Robotech that can honestly be called original with a straight face are probably the McKinney novels... and we all know how much the majority of the fans love them.

Robotech can't continue relying on the original characters for all of its future works. Rick Hunter has to die sometime, right?

Wanna bet? When Rick Hunter dies, that will be the end of Robotech. A great many fans only bought/watched the Shadow Chronicles movie because they were promised that Rick Hunter would return and somehow become relevant to the story again. Take him away, and you take away the reason most of the fans were still watching.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Keith]

Robotech can't continue relying on the original characters for all of its future works. Rick Hunter has to die sometime, right?

Nope, for Robotech fans, "Rick Hunter' has become synonymous with "cock-tease," and apparently you can just have tony oliver record streaming teasers, then toss "rick" into a black hole, to keep those fans coming back for more.

[Whamhammer]

Feel free to stop me when I lose the plot here...

You didn't like that a few, belligerent fans of the original works criticize the Robotech adaptation on a site which also caters (albeit minimally) to fans of the originals, so you left there and came to a site devoted exclusively to the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross series and its sequels, which you say you don't even like very much, to defend Robotech from perfectly legitimate observations, criticism, and legal discussion?

Forgive me, but your logic seems to be horribly screwed up.

Sure, Ill be more than happy to . ...

1) I insist that Macross didnt do that much for me, true , but I do appreciate it and am willing to keep an open mind to things and wish to see more anime in different series, I was also reffered here with the infromation that there is also a Robotech section in here, which Robotech is discussed, which is the section I am in. I was alsotold tha this place is a great place to hold an adult discussion.

2) I dont like belligerent people going to a website with the primary goal of bashing another series no matter what the product is. It doesnt matter what kind of service the site goers get. If they dont like the site and feel they are treated poorly, they can leave, such as . Can we agree on that?

3) I'm not here to defend Robotech , I was giving my point of view of it, if you didnt notice I have also criticized those who currently produce Robotech as well. I dont suggest its superiority to anything. Its not superior to anything,but I do enjoy it.

As you can tell I am also not belligerent, I have given Macross its dues, and I am willing to see more of the product.I Enjoy many types of anime , and can always try something new again, but if you wish I could leave and not keep an open mind to it...

more later, I have an appointment to go to.

[Save]

but if you wish I could leave and not keep an open mind to it...

You made it this far, might as well take off your shoes and stay a while. Don't let Seto make you jump ship so fast, he is kind of like Cotton from King of the Hill. He killed Fidy Men, and he wants his due. He is a war hero, and only wants what he feels needs to be acknowledged.

Seto I want to see that M2 site of yours!!!

[Gubaba]

1) I insist that Macross didnt do that much for me, true , but I do appreciate it and am willing to keep an open mind to things and wish to see more anime in different series, I was also reffered here with the infromation that there is also a Robotech section in here, which Robotech is discussed, which is the section I am in. I was alsotold tha this place is a great place to hold an adult discussion.

2) I dont like belligerent people going to a website with the primary goal of bashing another series no matter what the product is. It doesnt matter what kind of service the site goers get. If they dont like the site and feel they are treated poorly, they can leave, such as . Can we agree on that?

3) I'm not here to defend Robotech , I was giving my point of view of it, if you didnt notice I have also criticized those who currently produce Robotech as well. I dont suggest its superiority to anything. Its not superior to anything,but I do enjoy it.

As you can tell I am also not belligerent, I have given Macross its dues, and I am willing to see more of the product.I Enjoy many types of anime , and can always try something new again, but if you wish I could leave and not keep an open mind to it...

more later, I have an appointment to go to.

Robotech fans (with a small or sometimes nonexistent interest in Macross) signing up here seems to have become an increasing trend over the last six months or so...I wonder why?

(I'm not saying there's anything BAD about that; there isn't. People can post wherever they like...but I find it strange. Why now? And why here?)

[Keith]

Robotech fans (with a small or sometimes nonexistent interest in Macross) signing up here seems to have become an increasing trend over the last six months or so...I wonder why?

(I'm not saying there's anything BAD about that; there isn't. People can post wherever they like...but I find it strange. Why now? And why here?)

"All you will hear now is Sharon

All you will see now is Sharon

You can do nothing, nothing at all"

i.e. they don't have anything to watch, so the Macross side of the force has become more tempting to them.

[Gubaba]

"All you will hear now is Sharon

All you will see now is Sharon

You can do nothing, nothing at all"

Shut up, Marj.

i.e. they don't have anything to watch, so the Macross side of the force has become more tempting to them.

That's not exactly what I'm talking about...

(Before I go on, let me state clearly that what I'm about to say is NOT CRITICISM. I don't think there's anything wrong with coming here to post solely about Robotech, and I don't think there's anything wrong with not being a Macross fan. I'm not singling anyone out, or attacking anyone, I'm just providing examples.)

Yes, there are people like fifbeat who seemed to be MUCH more into RT, but then got into Macross. That took a few years, so I suppose it can happen to any of the RT fans here.

But I'm talking more about people like MEMO, and (more recently) people like Wanzerfan, HappyPenguins, and Whamhammer. HappyPenguins and Whamhammer both came out and said that they're not fans of Macross (yet...heh heh). And I've never heard Wanzerfan say ANYTHING positive about ANY Macross story. There are many others, too...and all of them post in this thread 90% of the time.

Now, I know HappyPenguins joined up to speak out on the legal debate; others joined because they were either banned from RT.com or got frustrated with it. But again, my question is...Why here? I'm not being confrontational, I'm genuinely curious.

[Seto Kaiba]

1) I insist that Macross didnt do that much for me, true , but I do appreciate it and am willing to keep an open mind to things and wish to see more anime in different series,

This much is laudable...

I was also reffered here with the infromation that there is also a Robotech section in here, which Robotech is discussed, which is the section I am in. I was alsotold tha this place is a great place to hold an adult discussion.

's not really a section... it's just the one thread, which is only grudgingly tolerated by the administrators.

I dont like belligerent people going to a website with the primary goal of bashing another series no matter what the product is. It doesnt matter what kind of service the site goers get. If they dont like the site and feel they are treated poorly, they can leave, such as . Can we agree on that?

Yes, but can you say with absolute certainty that those users who you had an issue with on Robotech.com were there for the sole purpose of bashing Robotech? After all, every now and again even I get accused of going over there to bash Robotech (albeit, the ones doing the accusing are usually the ones who think Robotech is somehow above criticism by mere mortals like myself), and yet I spend most of my time there helping people, answering questions and the like. Also, what you may consider "bashing" of the series may just be your interpretation of something that was intended as legitimate criticism (which my criticisms of Shadow Chronicles often are). I say this because there's been a recent, SEVERE upswing in Robotech fans labeling anything they don't agree with, and particularly anything that shows Robotech as somehow less-than-perfect as "bashing", "trolling", etc.

As you can tell I am also not belligerent, I have given Macross its dues, and I am willing to see more of the product.I Enjoy many types of anime , and can always try something new again, but if you wish I could leave and not keep an open mind to it...

I'm all for keeping an open mind, but coming here JUST for the Robotech legal thread kind of defeats the point of it being a Macross site. It's good to know that you're not going to limit yourself to just this thread.

You made it this far, might as well take off your shoes and stay a while. Don't let Seto make you jump ship so fast, he is kind of like Cotton from King of the Hill. He killed Fidy Men, and he wants his due. He is a war hero, and only wants what he feels needs to be acknowledged.

Since I've never given King of the Hill the time of day, I had to look the character up to see what you were talking about... and I'm not sure if I should be offended or not.

Seto I want to see that M2 site of yours!!!

We're working on it... problem is I can't translate fast enough to keep up with the queue of incoming stuff. I've got a bunch of new material on the VF-2SS put together though, and I'm working on the CSS-based layout for the main articles. (Finally figured out why the heck the Super Armed Pack can cram so much stuff into such a small space)

Robotech fans (with a small or sometimes nonexistent interest in Macross) signing up here seems to have become an increasing trend over the last six months or so...I wonder why?

Y'know, I didn't even notice until you'd pointed it out to me the other day...

i.e. they don't have anything to watch, so the Macross side of the force has become more tempting to them.

lol, surely you jest... the fact that Macross Frontier is one of the most heavily-torrented fansubs in the world right now can't possibly have anything to do with it.

But I'm talking more about people like MEMO, and (more recently) people like Wanzerfan

I don't think Wanzerfan belongs in that group... I know for a fact he's a Macross II fan. In fact, he's one of the original members of my Macross II site, from way back in '03 when it was just an attempt to fix the screw-ups in the Palladium RPG.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Whamhammer]

"Yes, but can you say with absolute certainty that those users who you had an issue with on Robotech.com were there for the sole purpose of bashing Robotech? After all, every now and again even I get accused of going over there to bash Robotech (albeit, the ones doing the accusing are usually the ones who think Robotech is somehow above criticism by mere mortals like myself), and yet I spend most of my time there helping people, answering questions and the like. Also, what you may consider "bashing" of the series may just be your interpretation of something that was intended as legitimate criticism (which my criticisms of Shadow Chronicles often are). I say this because there's been a recent, SEVERE upswing in Robotech fans labeling anything they don't agree with, and particularly anything that shows Robotech as somehow less-than-perfect as "bashing", "trolling", etc."

One can interperate one mans help is anothers lambasting, I would definately say I try to give enough berth in my consideration. Those to which I referred to I go by thier tone and words, it was generally negative, generaly devolving into the personal (as opposed to objective) and hardly constructive , per my consideration of what bashing and trolling would be. I try to believe that we are all adults and I judge by that notion. Its is by this guidline that I describe the aforementioned. Does that make help make sence ?

I hardly think Robotech is perfect, it is far from it. Robotech is strewn with errors in script and requires a certain level of suspension of disbeleif . In my opinion Shadow Chronicles did fall short in my expectations, I think it required more attention to detail than it recieved ,but I did enjoy it. I also wish they would be more organized and be able to set up thier projects better as to appearing that they have a plan and a timetable and can manage to keep to it. I believe that the product has potential and that as its being presented it is failing to meet that potential.

"I'm all for keeping an open mind, but coming here JUST for the Robotech legal thread kind of defeats the point of it being a Macross site. It's good to know that you're not going to limit yourself to just this thread."

Im glad youre for keeping an open mind. I would hate to believe that you were otherwise. Im not here just for the Robotech, this place talks about Yamato products, Bandai, Toynami and other product lines which I may be interested in and I can learn from them here, I hope you as well frequent those sections and enjoy them. Just because that section is the first place I posted (as described in the first lines of my introduction) doesnt mean that thats the only reason why I was here which I did end my first posting showing my intention of openess to other things, wouldnt you agree?

"But I'm talking more about people like MEMO, and (more recently) people like Wanzerfan, HappyPenguins, and Whamhammer. HappyPenguins and Whamhammer both came out and said that they're not fans of Macross (yet...heh heh). And I've never heard Wanzerfan say ANYTHING positive about ANY Macross story. There are many others, too...and all of them post in this thread 90% of the time.

Now, I know HappyPenguins joined up to speak out on the legal debate; others joined because they were either banned from RT.com or got frustrated with it. But again, my question is...Why here? I'm not being confrontational, I'm genuinely curious."

I am here because a friend of mine reffered me here. I was told that there were a good sort of people who chatted about here and had mature conversations, and that there were sections that talked about Robotech and other topics sci-fi as well. I believe I presented why I left there , and if you believe Im disengenuous go ahead and read my posting on topics in that site and youll probably agree I am on the up and up. And as far as to the "why here?" question, my responce is "why not?". If my attendance here s an abomination, please let me know.

Hopefully this can clear things up, the the very least , if I leave the lights on in my ride you wont have to guess whos plane is the white Alpha-Beta combo with blue racing stripes on it with the smoking tires (post parking lot donuts). Lol

[Whamhammer]

I don't think Wanzerfan belongs in that group... I know for a fact he's a Macross II fan. In fact, he's one of the original members of my Macross II site, from way back in '03 when it was just an attempt to fix the screw-ups in the Palladium RPG.

I have a group ! Wicked!!!

[Gubaba]

I am here because a friend of mine reffered me here. I was told that there were a good sort of people who chatted about here and had mature conversations, and that there were sections that talked about Robotech and other topics sci-fi as well. I believe I presented why I left there , and if you believe Im disengenuous go ahead and read my posting on topics in that site and youll probably agree I am on the up and up. And as far as to the "why here?" question, my responce is "why not?". If my attendance here s an abomination, please let me know.

I mentioned several times in my post that I wasn't attacking anyone, nor singling people out, nor being confrontational.

So, no, I don't believe you're being disingenuous, nor (as I believe I stressed in my post) do I think you being here is any kind of "abomination."

Anyway, thanks for answering my question.

I don't think Wanzerfan belongs in that group... I know for a fact he's a Macross II fan. In fact, he's one of the original members of my Macross II site, from way back in '03 when it was just an attempt to fix the screw-ups in the Palladium RPG.

Hmmm...the only thing I've ever seen him say about Macross II is that he can tolerate Hibiki better than he can Basara. I guess that's sorta positive...in a way...

[HappyPenguins]

Good luck with that... you'll probably have an easier time convincing the entire Harmony Gold "creative staff" to commit seppuku. There wasn't much original about the "original" series, for the obvious reasons, and most of what came after just imitated whatever mainstream sci-fi series was popular at the time. Robotech II: the Sentinels was modeled on Star Trek, Robotech 3000 was modeled on the generic CG action shows of the late 90's (Roughnecks, ReBoot), and Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles was modeled on the reimagined Battlestar Galactica. Even many of the comics stole stories, characters, and mecha from other shows. The only parts of Robotech that can honestly be called original with a straight face are probably the McKinney novels... and we all know how much the majority of the fans love them.

Of course I'm not talking about any of the HG staff, they have already proven they lack the ability to come up with anything that's not a rip of something else.

I'm saying if someone else could take over, and give the RT fandom something new, then they'd be better off. They have the options of looking for someone else, but apparently they believe crap like TSC is doing so well, that there's no need to find someone with an actual imagination.

Wanna bet? When Rick Hunter dies, that will be the end of Robotech. A great many fans only bought/watched the Shadow Chronicles movie because they were promised that Rick Hunter would return and somehow become relevant to the story again. Take him away, and you take away the reason most of the fans were still watching.

As long as HG is the one behind the creativity then yes, but if someone else can take the reins, then RT can continue without Rick Hunter.

HappyPenguins and Whamhammer both came out and said that they're not fans of Macross (yet...heh heh).

I'm not a hard core fan, but I do like it. I watched macross II on television many years ago and downloaded DYRL and watched that. I'm more attracted to some of the art styles more than anything, and I do have a slight interest in Frontier, being that a friend of mine said it has some similarities with my story, so I'm just curious to find out what those are.

Nope, for Robotech fans, "Rick Hunter' has become synonymous with "cock-tease," and apparently you can just have tony oliver record streaming teasers, then toss "rick" into a black hole, to keep those fans coming back for more

Which is just pathetic, he's old now time to move on.

Edited August 26, 2009 by HappyPenguins