Whats the next macross series?

[Seto Kaiba]

Oh, how I'd wish for any sort of thing following up Macross II!

From the rest of your post, I don't think you really know anything about the real Macross II backstory... sounds like you've got a BAD case of Palladium. Seriously, it's remarks like this that motivated me to start my website project in the first place.

It's a damn shame, really, since there are at least three major Zentradi conflicts, all of which would be ripe for animated adaptation (particularly the ones in 2037 and 2054), and the whole unexplored (in animation) angle of the colony fleets, like the one that was ambushed by the Zentradi in 2054, or that business with the one in the novelizations. I'd love to see them do an animated adaptation of Macross 2036 or Macross: Eternal Love Song... especially if they use the character designs Mikimoto did for both games. Adult Komilia is just awesome on SO many levels, plus the upgraded VF-1, and the return of Quamzin... what's not to like?

Heck, for an RPG, I imagined the idea that the Marduk were Protoculture or perhaps Zentraedi dissidants who watched the original Republic fall apart becuase it kept trying to assimilate cultures and blend them to ascend to greatness. (Thus the whole adoration of the Varja, the fan-idea that the Protoculture had known of the Galactic Whales, and their inpiration upon other worlds...)

Um... the business with galactic whales and the Vajra has nothing to do with Macross II... 's not even part of the same continuity. For that matter, it's "Mardook", not "Marduk". Yes, they're homophones, but the spelling (and the subsequent romanization) are different and the difference is intentional (and thus significant enough to matter).

Funny thing is... then you could imagine the Alus to be a ship of the Marduk that breaks off from this plan and sets off to try and discover what happened to the race they abandoned.... (But of course, if memory serves me correctly... DYRL tries to say the ship was a part of the Supervisionary Army, right?)

There is no Supervision Army in DYRL or Macross II, they were replaced by the Meltrandi. Not sure where you're going with this Alus business either... the Macross was originally a Meltrandi gun destroyer in Macross: Do You Remember Love? and Macross II: Lovers Again, it was not a Mardook ship. The colony they found in DYRL was a Protoculture city, not a Mardook one.

(But you know, the VF-2SS does have some rather interesting design similarities to the 25 and the 27... a transformable armor pack, a heavy beam cannon... man... some clever rewriting and... heh...)

No... just no. For one, the VF-2SS Valkyrie II's Super Armed Pack has very little in common with conventional super or armor packs. For two, that is NOT a heavy beam cannon, that's a railgun.

Edited November 29, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Tolarin]

Oh, no, no, no... you get me all wrong!

I'm WELL aware that Macross II doesn't fit into the real continuity and of Macross 2036 (Though I never seen/played Eternal Love Story)

Originally I had put in my post a line that this might sound like bad-fanfictioning... and indeed it is! I'm doing the hypothetical "What if" with that post... what if one tried to tie Macross II with the main continuitty.

I'll save the major Macross II convo for the Macross II thread... your comment had just made me think of the RPG campaign I ran and its crazy OBVIOUSLY non-canon story line... *laughs* By no means was it supposed to suggest any real sort of connection.

[shadow strikers]

Shadow Strike:

Pete

exactly nothing.

[shadow strikers]

Okay, take your time and write properly. Let's see some proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation. It'll make it a lot easier to understand what you're trying to say.

In fact, I DID answer your question, and my response was essentially the same as David Hingtgen's... that what you're asking for is Robotech, not Macross. Macross has always been about love stories and music. The mecha, wars, and all the rest are just a backdrop upon which the love story can play out. Macross's writers can write new, compelling characters and settings, so they don't need to fall back on Robotech cop-outs like having apocalyptic war after apocalyptic war, each one with "new" mecha to disguise weak or absent characterization and plot development.

Nobody's here to debate your bizarre views on humanity, and you're entitled to your opinion about what you'd like to see in a future Macross series. What we're telling you is that you've missed the entire point Macross, which is NOT war or giant fighting robots, but rather the love stories, the music, and often the futility of war.

But war is unavoidable so how does it make it futile. Because it's only human nature to fight for dumb things and kill your own species and try to conquer. Just like in the anime the zentradi built for war it's what they like and so do people they like war.

Don't tell me that isn't true because if you do your lying, why else do they all fight?

But I understand what your getting at, macross is a love story kinda like a soap opera, with love drama and the occasional fighting scenes to help the love and plot go on.

[Tolarin]

War isn't unavoidable... you obviously haven't listened to Basara's song enough!

[shadow strikers]

War isn't unavoidable... you obviously haven't listened to Basara's song enough!

Thats a song now lets look at real life. War is unavoidable other wise we wouldn't fight if wanted too. But because the primitive instinct kicks in, they all start going on with man I really want that land or the resource or those objects.

It's not anyone's fault but it's hard or impossible to remove 200,000 years off biological programing.

[VFTF1]

But because the primitive instinct kicks in, they all start going on with man I really want that land or the resource or those objects.

And they end up with NOTHING - hence war is futile.

Believe it or not - war, like slavery, is economically inefficient and insofar as human beings are self-interested by nature, they tend to try to serve their interests rather than not. Nowhere in history has war ever led to any advance in human civilization. Always war has led to destruction. And before you raise the point that the damage of warfare was something that allowed for new construction, google the broken window fallacy.

Whenever and whereever men fight over land, resources and other objectives rather than competing for them peacefully, waste and poverty follows.

It is not a coincidence that the most impoverished places on Earth are also the most war-wracked. Capital acculumation, which is the condition for human progress, does not happen under conditions of warfare - this is why most people strive to maintain peace.

And if you want to be exact - please just look at the statistics. There are roughly 6 billion human beings on Earth.

Not even 1% of that number are engaged in warfare. Even if we account for the millions displaced by war, it is still a radically small number compared to the growing population of people who are ONLY engaged in peaceful exchange and voluntary cooperation.

So everything, I think, in your premise is flat out wrong. War does not serve the ends for which it is often waged - whatever those ends, noble or even ignoble - they could be achieved EASIER and in a more EFFFICIENT manner through peaceful acquisition. War is also not a natural human activity insofar as it is not necessary to the survival of the species - in fact it threatens the survival of the species and is not unlike a cancer or a virus - it is an accident that occurs in a minute fraction of the population due to a variety of circumstances.

As for the pictures - I can post 10 hot guys if 10 hot girls doesn't do it for you

Pete

[shadow strikers]

And they end up with NOTHING - hence war is futile.

Believe it or not - war, like slavery, is economically inefficient and insofar as human beings are self-interested by nature, they tend to try to serve their interests rather than not. Nowhere in history has war ever led to any advance in human civilization. Always war has led to destruction. And before you raise the point that the damage of warfare was something that allowed for new construction, google the broken window fallacy.

Whenever and whereever men fight over land, resources and other objectives rather than competing for them peacefully, waste and poverty follows.

It is not a coincidence that the most impoverished places on Earth are also the most war-wracked. Capital acculumation, which is the condition for human progress, does not happen under conditions of warfare - this is why most people strive to maintain peace.

And if you want to be exact - please just look at the statistics. There are roughly 6 billion human beings on Earth.

Not even 1% of that number are engaged in warfare. Even if we account for the millions displaced by war, it is still a radically small number compared to the growing population of people who are ONLY engaged in peaceful exchange and voluntary cooperation.

So everything, I think, in your premise is flat out wrong. War does not serve the ends for which it is often waged - whatever those ends, noble or even ignoble - they could be achieved EASIER and in a more EFFFICIENT manner through peaceful acquisition. War is also not a natural human activity insofar as it is not necessary to the survival of the species - in fact it threatens the survival of the species and is not unlike a cancer or a virus - it is an accident that occurs in a minute fraction of the population due to a variety of circumstances.

As for the pictures - I can post 10 hot guys if 10 hot girls doesn't do it for you

Pete

Once again you fail to read. I said it can't be helped because of human nature you love fighting whether you agree or not sub consciously you do which is why we are arguing now. Also the picture's doesn't show how great the human race is females are females that's nothing that makes this species special. When I said a list of ten things ten things that are actually 100% fact proven that makes you think humans are great and it has to be 100% true not based off your opinions.

[hulagu]

From the rest of your post, I don't think you really know anything about the real Macross II backstory... sounds like you've got a BAD case of Palladium. Seriously, it's remarks like this that motivated me to start my website project in the first place.

It's a damn shame, really, since there are at least three major Zentradi conflicts, all of which would be ripe for animated adaptation (particularly the ones in 2037 and 2054), and the whole unexplored (in animation) angle of the colony fleets, like the one that was ambushed by the Zentradi in 2054, or that business with the one in the novelizations. I'd love to see them do an animated adaptation of Macross 2036 or Macross: Eternal Love Song... especially if they use the character designs Mikimoto did for both games. Adult Komilia is just awesome on SO many levels, plus the upgraded VF-1, and the return of Quamzin... what's not to like?

Well it's somewhat disappointing and a little unbelievable that UN Spacy advances in VF design in the alternate 2036 amounts to supergluing superpacks onto the backs of VF-1s (I feel the same way about some of the Macross II designs). I like The updated Zentran designs though.

Um... the business with galactic whales and the Vajra has nothing to do with Macross II... 's not even part of the same continuity. For that matter, it's "Mardook", not "Marduk". Yes, they're homophones, but the spelling (and the subsequent romanization) are different and the difference is intentional (and thus significant enough to matter).

Did they ever mention why the Mardook know about the "legendary" Ark of Alus that is less than a century old? Is it just rumors from captured slave Zentradi? Or is there some weird time travel plot device involved?

Edited November 29, 2009 by hulagu

[shadow strikers]

Pete fighting is in human nature we fight for space what we want and so on. You can't say fighting brings nothing because it brought you your home where you live and so on. It's what kept you from having to be ruled by a queen or king. Also fighting could be more then just shooting and so on it could fighting verbally. Even that brings you stuff, another thing to add 200,000 years ago when even more primitive homo species then our selves lived all's we did was fight to be dominant and so on. If it wasn't for fighting we wouldn't have been competing for dominance and become the pest and infestation we are now.

[Tolarin]

I wasn't aware that I was a pest and infestation....

Can pests and infestations listen to songs? Becuase really, I think that's what is important here!

[shadow strikers]

I wasn't aware that I was a pest and infestation....

Can pests and infestations listen to songs? Becuase really, I think that's what is important here!

I'm talking about people 6.3 billion and growing.

07/01/09 6,768,167,712

08/01/09 6,774,705,647

09/01/09 6,781,243,583

10/01/09 6,787,570,618

11/01/09 6,794,108,554

12/01/09 6,800,435,588

01/01/10 6,806,973,524

02/01/10 6,813,511,460

03/01/10 6,819,416,692

04/01/10 6,825,954,628

05/01/10 6,832,281,663

06/01/10 6,838,819,599

07/01/10 6,845,146,634

here's the definition for infestation ill provide two.

1.The presence of a large number of organisms in an area or field

2.invade in great numbers

We sure are we just can't stay in one place, we sure can't stop growing in size and destroy rare or valuable resources and land. All's we do is scurry off to a location mate and mate and mate growing and growing. Then spreading off infesting the whole planet with disease ridden pest. That's all we are we are a pest we just steal from the land then move on only caring about our selves. So like any pest and infestation what do you do you end it, i.e where war and action take place. I really could careless about people.

And the great part about this is in Christianity, I'm still going to heaven because all the requirements in that religion are you follow the 10 commandments and believe Jesus is your savior. Yes I know it a primitive practice to believe we are so special we are loved by a great being. But I don't want to take the chance so I follow it. That and after 16 years you get hooked on it because of Christmas and all the stuff.

Edited November 29, 2009 by shadow strikers

[Tolarin]

A shame... becuase I think you are missing the WHOLE point of Macross.

[shadow strikers]

A shame... becuase I think you are missing the WHOLE point of Macross.

I am not talking about macross I'm talking about humans if you read my posts. Though even if we are a infection, and pest you guys kinda grew on me. Dang now im starting to like you guy's if this "love" and so on keeps up I may end up using my plans to bring peace. Well they're easy plans to follow nothing to hard or to dramatic but it could bring peace. But if I stop you guys or anyone from showing this "love" then I wont change into a good person and I could use the plans for evil. Like I become a high ranking admiral or something and "accidentally" start a 20 year war.

Edited November 29, 2009 by shadow strikers

[VFTF1]

Also fighting could be more then just shooting and so on it could fighting verbally

But that's not war

War is not "fighting verbally." War is using physical force to kill other people on a mass scale. It has nothing to do with a verball argument.

If you want to say that it's human nature to disagree - then yes - of course. By all means, this is true. But to say that war is in the nature of man? Sorry, I just think Hobbes is wrong and Locke and Rousseau are right if we're going to have that debate.

War is a social construct. By nature, people don't need to fight one another for anything. They do it because someone first taught them that they desperately need something the other guy has at all costs, or that the other guy has to be hated and is evil, or that God commands it or that [fill in the blank].

Violence on a small scale sometimes happens of course, and Aristotle is right that war often starts as a justified reaction of self-defence against a percieved wrong. But it's the "percieved" that is key here - because if you can manipulate people's perceptions, you can get them to fight.

But a manipulated perception is not nature - since it's been manipulated.

As for this:

It's what kept you from having to be ruled by a queen or king.

I can equally say that fighting is what caused me - or others in general - to be ruled by a King or Queen in the first place, since a Monarch, like any other soveriegn of the State, is by definition someone who attempts to secure a monopoly on the use of violence amongst human beings, usually by taking away everybody's guns or having bigger proverbial guns.

The things is though - that there's no reason to fight a war against tyranny and all wars fought against tyranny have ended in more tyranny and tragedy.

Name one war that has ever actually caused an increase in human happiness. Name one war that has not ended in the betrayal of the ideals for which it was fought and in the establishment of some alternative form of tyranny and in negative unintended consequences that were far more horrific and bad than the "bad" situation that ostensibly led to the war?

Meanwhile, look at the fate of all tyrannies that have been left to themselves - they collapse. They die of internal causes because they are incapable of sustaining themselves. Incapable, of course, unless you feed them through war, which gives them something to do and draws out their deaths.

Just like the Zendradi, mind you - they can't maintain their ships. They don't have a division of labor because they don't allow for the flourishing of Minkanjin - free civil society - and so they loose. All they know how to produce are ever bigger explosions - but so what? That is not a replacement for happiness.

In any event - every time a war starts, it must eventually stop or must be carried out to its' logical conclusion. If it does not stop, it will end in the destruction of all civilian society - and I do not mean nuclear or armed destruction - I mean that more and more resources, time, lives and effort will go towards blowing things up than to other pursuits and that societies that engage themselves thus will see their standard of living fall, will see mass disease, poverty, hunger, and a general reduction - regression to cave man like days proceed. It could take 10 years, it could take a hundred - but the longer a war goes on for - the more is lost and less is gained.

At best, wars that are fought quickly and concluded quickly might produce some short term gain - but their unseen consequences are always to leave bitterness, resentment and the seeds for a wider conflict - which will surely erase any potential short term gains in resources or land.

And while we're on the subject of "rescources or land" - how's Hong Kong look on both those counts? Don't see many mineral reasources or space over there for that matter. Switzerland is kind of short of both of those as well. Yet both these places, the one a city and the latter a country, are very prosperous nonetheless. So - when was the last time Switzerland or Honk Kong fought a war? Could the fact that they tend to stay out of armed conflict have anything to do with people putting all their money there and prefering to bring their expertise and wisdom there than to...oh...I dunno...Afghanistan?

I just don't see this thesis of yours as very convincing - it has no grounding in either history, philosophy or statistics. War takes place - yes. It is always terrible - yes. Sometimes it is fought because one side believes (wrongly) that it will 'gain' some benefit or another believes that it must resist some injustice. But never is it the most efficient way to resolve a dispute between people. Again - show me at least one historical example where war solved any kind of dispute in a way that was better than not having a war? And dig a little deeper than the Civil War/Slavery, since slavery happened to have been abolished in Europe and throughout many parts of the world without any wars whatsoever...

Finally - think about how the Cold War ended - not a single shot fired. The bad guys just got tired of not eating and never having any fun and decided - screw this! And came over to the side of the good guys.

If the good guys had bombed them before that happened - the bad guys would have been pissed for the next four generations and the conflict would have escalated and we'd be right back where we were - death, destruction and war without end.

And for the record - I also see no reason for you to be so pessimistic about human beings. So you noticed that people do terrible things to eachother - ok - I understand that. And you're a kid and you're going emo over that - fair enough.

Certainly I think that just shows that you've got a good heart and are sensitive to human suffering. That's good. But don't be so danged pessimistic because it's not that bad.

Find a girlfriend and stop thinking about war

Pete

Edited November 29, 2009 by VFTF1

[shadow strikers]

Finally - think about how the Cold War ended - not a single shot fired. The bad guys just got tired of not eating and never having any fun and decided - screw this! And came over to the side of the good guys.

Isn't good another point of view that isn't 100% true, because what you see as right and true some people see it as wrong and bad. Same for evil, it's just another point of view what you see as bad they see as good.

But never is it the most efficient way to resolve a dispute between people. Again - show me at least on historical example where war solved any kind of dispute in a way that was better than not having a war?

I never said it was bad or good. Once again you fail to read I said and I quote my self "its unavoidable people love to fight its in human nature", no were in that am I saying that it's bad or good.

Also people have been fighting for thousands of years, your far more primitive ancestors fought to stay dominate. Life is about fighting and I know what I am saying now is contradicting to before but its true. If the homo species didn't fight we would still be the the prey for a stronger species, if we didn't fight we wouldn't have been able to eliminate competing species and become top of the food chain you get me?

Edited November 29, 2009 by shadow strikers

[VFTF1]

If the homo species didn't fight we would still be the the prey for a stronger species

Do you even have any idea how amazingly laugh out loud funny that sounds?

Pete

[shadow strikers]

Another thing in human nature is the need to know all about your self, and everything around you. That and wanting to have everything. So the thing in hong kong with the money seemed to be more powerful then the war instinct. More money is better so in the future you can afford to fight. What I see is them just saying lets work together to get alot of money then in the future we can start wars with other people to take what they have.

[shadow strikers]

Do you even have any idea how amazingly laugh out loud funny that sounds?

Pete

Do you know how stupid you are not know its about survival of the fittest if your species can't fight back they will die out we did that now look at us we are even more stupid and weak, but we are at the top.

[VFTF1]

What I see is them just saying lets work together to get alot of money then in the future we can start wars with other people to take what they have.

Wouldn't it just be easier to...you know...BUY what they have...if you have all that money?

And wouldn't going to war just...you know...REDUCE the value of that money?

By your logic - I work and save money so that one day I can buy an M-60 machine gun and take out my next door neighbor.

That's ridiculous

Pete

[shadow strikers]

pete why are you trying so hard to make me see good and right? Like I said earlier I won't let you change me so I could bring pain and suffering in the future.

It's the only way to teach everyone a lesson. You can't just expect people to change you have to teach them why. Like a child for example you can't just say don't touch that it's hot, they wont learn their lesson till they get burned a little at least once. Or grown adult homo sapiens how to behave and expect them to do it they have to learn. How did we learn not to use extremely destructive weapons we say the deaths and so on so we stopped using nukes on people. How do you learn to care for someone that is being bullied you have to had been bullied at least once in your life to learn what iyt feels like.

Edited November 29, 2009 by shadow strikers

[hulagu]

Already been covered, actually... in a segment in Macross: Perfect Memory. Let me tell you right now it's nowhere near as exciting as you think it is. Aside from Hikaru doing a brief stint at the U.N. Spacy's moon base, giant Meltrandi pro wrestling, and a bit about Minmay's life after the war, there's really not much noteworthy that goes on during that period.

Sure, nothing important for the Macross protagonists. Well, ideally such a story would be about the lives of other new characters, or even from the Zentran POV, about a more personal story rather than earth-shaking events.

I'll second that emotion... buncha crazy newbies who can't tell the difference between Macross and Robotech or want Macross to be more like Robotech came out of the woodwork all at once. I realize that taste is subjective, but I'd like to avoid having anyone who actually thinks Robotech 3000 was a good idea involved in the production of Macross if at all possible.

:facepalm: That was intended to be a sardonic statement about how the nebulous nature of Protoculture in Robotech could make such a thing happen in a hypothetical Robotech sequel, not some kind of endorsement.

Edited November 29, 2009 by hulagu

[VFTF1]

Do you know how stupid you are not know its about survival of the fittest

Compared to a lion or a killer shark or a Cobra or a 20 foot Python - a human being is not "the fittest."

And yet human beings rule the planet.

That's because human beings can think creatively and reason - something other animals cannot do.

That was intended to be a sardonic statement about how the nebulous nature of Protoculture in Robotech could make it plausibly happen, not some kind of endorsement.

Don't be too harsh on Seto He got banned from Robotech.com for sardonic statements and is a bit sensitive. Besides - it just seems that there are plenty enough interesting courses for Macross to develop within the framework of the Macross universe without even having to reference Robotech

Pete

Edited November 29, 2009 by VFTF1

[shadow strikers]

Compared to a lion or a killer shark or a Cobra or a 20 foot Python - a human being is not "the fittest."

And yet human beings rule the planet.

That's because human beings can think creatively and reason - something other animals cannot do.

Don't be too harsh on Seto He got banned from Robotech.com for sardonic statements and is a bit sensitive. Besides - it just seems that there are plenty enough interesting courses for Macross to develop within the framework of the Macross universe without even having to reference Robotech

Pete

pete this is how humans rose to the top they acted like the little pathetic creatures they are stayed out of other creatures ways or developed small tools to help protect them selves that's how. Also animals can reason but food and survival come first just like a person. If you had nothing there for you like you do now if you had to acctually take care of the plants your self for crops and try to hunt your food you would be completely different then you are now surviving would be your top priority but because you never lived that life like your ancestors did thousands of years ago you can easily say we are nice we don't get grouchy we don't fight because we need too.

[VFTF1]

this is how humans rose to the top they acted like the little pathetic creatures they are stayed out of other creatures ways or developed small tools to help protect them selves that's how.

How is "staying out of other creatures way" or "developing small tools to help protect them" qualify for "acting like the little pathetic creatures they are."

Why is it pathetic to mind your own business and make useful things?

pete why are you trying so hard to make me see good and right?

Because I think you're a smart kid who talks too much and doesn't recognize his own short comings - kind of like me when I was your age. I'd like to see you grow and develop and not be misunderstood.

I'm not at all worried, like some of our other friends here are, about your opinions being slightly unconventional - after all - how many of us older guys used to think lots of different things when we were half as old or younger - and how much we've changed our opinions in life since then?

But it would be good if you tried to work on your writing dude - because lots of people will never see the thoughts you have - all they'll see is the mess that your sentences and paragraph structure are. And you won't have the benefit of being able to actually have a conversation where you can learn something since people will keep pointing fingures at your bad form and laugh instead of discuss stuff with you.

That said - we're totally off topic.

Pete

Edited November 29, 2009 by VFTF1

[shadow strikers]

Is it so hard for you to see pete that people are just naturally bad, you aren't born good you are taught how to be good. You learn not to make fun of him or her because he or she is different. You learn not hurt people because they did something that you think is wrong. You learn not to kill or steal and so on.

In order to change human nature you need to change the law, and vice versa.

So lets just come to a agreement here people are naturally bad but we don't have to fight because we are blessed with the gift of abundant food and so on. But we fight because people weren't given a choice. Do you agree?

[shadow strikers]

How is "staying out of other creatures way" or "developing small tools to help orotect them" qualify for "acting like the little pathetic creatures they are."

Why is it pathetic to mind your own business and make useful things?

Because I think you're a smart kid who talks too much and doesn't recognize his own short comings - kind of like me when I was your age. I'd like to see you grow and develop and not be misunderstood.

I'm not at all worried, like some of our other friends here are, about your opinions being slightly unconventional - after all - how many of us older guys used to think lots of different things when we were half as old or younger - and how much we've changed our opinions in life since then?

But it would be good if you tried to work on your writing dude - because lots of people will never see the thoughts you have - all they'll see is the mess that your sentences and paragraph structure are. And you won't have the benefit of being able to actually have a conversation where you can learn something since people will keep pointing fingures at your bad form and laugh instead of discuss stuff with you.

That said - we're totally off topic.

Pete

I'm sorry pete for being a evil sadistic fool. Teach me how to write properly help me unwind the wrong I have written and lets be friends.

[VFTF1]

Obviously I don't agree. So we're just going to have to disagree and try to get back on topic....

And yes - it's my fault. Sorry. But I figured maybe it was better to engage Shadow Strike a little bit than to let his writings flow into every single thread he's in.

Anyways...we really do need to get back on topic because I sense that any tolerance the mods might have for our discussion is probably wearing thin by this point

Therefore - maybe I'll try to wrap this up by saying that the next Macross series should address the following QUESTIONS:

1) Is war natural or is it the result of manipulation?

2) Are human beings similar to the Vajra insofar as they are just a swarm spreading in the galaxy or do they have redeeming traits (and for that matter do the Vajra have redeeming traits)?

See - basically all of the stuff we are discussing IS touched upon in all of the Macross series - I think. But the problem with how we're talking about it is that we're not referencing those series, but instead going off on tangents that are way out off topic

I'm sorry - it's my fault - I kind of let it expand... but now I fear the wrath of Exo ....

GOMENE!

Pete

[shadow strikers]

Obviously I don't agree. So we're just going to have to disagree and try to get back on topic....

And yes - it's my fault. Sorry. But I figured maybe it was better to engage Shadow Strike a little bit than to let his writings flow into every single thread he's in.

Anyways...we really do need to get back on topic because I sense that any tolerance the mods might have for our discussion is probably wearing thin by this point

Therefore - maybe I'll try to wrap this up by saying that the next Macross series should address the following QUESTIONS:

1) Is war natural or is it the result of manipulation?

2) Are human beings similar to the Vajra insofar as they are just a swarm spreading in the galaxy or do they have redeeming traits (and for that matter do the Vajra have redeeming traits)?

See - basically all of the stuff we are discussing IS touched upon in all of the Macross series - I think. But the problem with how we're talking about it is that we're not referencing those series, but instead going off on tangents that are way out off topic

I'm sorry - it's my fault - I kind of let it expand... but now I fear the wrath of Exo ....

GOMENE!

Pete

I'm sorry for going off topic. But I agree those three things should be in the next series.

[Ignacio Ocamica]

Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool

Another Macross series is better than no Macross at all. Whatever the direction it may take, all of us will find something to praise and something to complain about

[Ghost Train]

Recalibrating thread .... standby .... we get signal!

[Gubaba]

Further recalibrations necessary...please hold...all right! We're back on track!

[Marzan]

Further recalibrations necessary...please hold...all right! We're back on track!

You make me tremble sir. I fear indeed a High School Musical in space for our next installment!

[dreamweaver13]

You make me tremble sir. I fear indeed a High School Musical in space for our next installment!

You know what, forget about high school musical. the way Sheryl and Ranka mashed-up several songs in the Nyan Nyan medley, they'd fit right in with Glee. Glee even had a diva-off episode once. perfect.