Stargate Universe

[CoryHolmes]

I agree that SGU is a good ride, but I miss some of the fun and adventure of SG1 and SGA. Still, good episode this week.

The problem being the "fun and adventure" of yonder has long since gone stale. Besides, that's what DVDs are for

[eugimon]

The problem being the "fun and adventure" of yonder has long since gone stale. Besides, that's what DVDs are for

I dunno, I thought both SG-1 and Atlantis had life in them, especially Atlantis, thought the last two seasons had some of the strongest episodes.

I'm liking SGU though

[Scream Man]

I agree with Eugi; not every show needs to be super hardcore smart and twisty and dramatic. I like SGU and Flashforward but also enjoy me some Castle and Legend of the Seeker. Sometimes just silly fun is the order of the day

[CoryHolmes]

I dunno, I thought both SG-1 and Atlantis had life in them, especially Atlantis, thought the last two seasons had some of the strongest episodes.

I'm liking SGU though

I disagree with the bolded bits SGU is what Atlantis should have been. Trapped and cut off from Earth, there should have been political divisions, bickering, and interpersonal clashes. Instead we got The Big Red Reset Button after every episode, and an extra-super generous helping of the Good Guys Are Always Right (also tm). The number of times I wanted SGA to at least acknowledge when their Heros made a mistake are manifold, and yet... nada. Also, I blame Martin Gero for Atlantis having a massive slapstick streak that just got over-the-top as the show went on.

All that aside, I really did enjoy watching Atlantis and was sad to see it go. But the more I watch SGU, the more I see the flaws that I'd held against SGA and not voiced them. It was a good show, but retrospect hasn't been kind to it.

[eugimon]

I disagree with the bolded bits SGU is what Atlantis should have been. Trapped and cut off from Earth, there should have been political divisions, bickering, and interpersonal clashes. Instead we got The Big Red Reset Button after every episode, and an extra-super generous helping of the Good Guys Are Always Right (also tm). The number of times I wanted SGA to at least acknowledge when their Heros made a mistake are manifold, and yet... nada. Also, I blame Martin Gero for Atlantis having a massive slapstick streak that just got over-the-top as the show went on.

All that aside, I really did enjoy watching Atlantis and was sad to see it go. But the more I watch SGU, the more I see the flaws that I'd held against SGA and not voiced them. It was a good show, but retrospect hasn't been kind to it.

No, you're just wrong.

[CoryHolmes]

No, you're just wrong.

Grr.

Edited April 15, 2010 by CoryHolmes

[bluemax151]

The more I watch SGU the more I hate Rush. He's a truly unsympathetic character and he got what he deserved when Young left him on that planet. It's a pity he didn't die there, slowly... I'm quickly losing my patience for Chloe as well.

For being Battlegate Voyager this show is still surprisingly boring. Watching it always seems like a chore or a duty to be honest.

[eugimon]

I disagree with the bolded bits SGU is what Atlantis should have been. Trapped and cut off from Earth, there should have been political divisions, bickering, and interpersonal clashes. Instead we got The Big Red Reset Button after every episode, and an extra-super generous helping of the Good Guys Are Always Right (also tm). The number of times I wanted SGA to at least acknowledge when their Heros made a mistake are manifold, and yet... nada. Also, I blame Martin Gero for Atlantis having a massive slapstick streak that just got over-the-top as the show went on.

All that aside, I really did enjoy watching Atlantis and was sad to see it go. But the more I watch SGU, the more I see the flaws that I'd held against SGA and not voiced them. It was a good show, but retrospect hasn't been kind to it.

The Atlantis crew were constantly dealing with the mistakes they made. The first season was all about how they screwed up and woke the wraith up. How Sheppard thinks he let Ford down, how Ford went batshit insane. And then later on it was all about how they screwed up against the replicators, how their mr fixit drug against the wraith screwed up. In the last season there was a lot of continuing tension between the characters on the fixit drug they wanted to give to the Wraith and their relationship with Michael.

And if anything, the slapstick became *less* of a component as the series went on, not more. The later seasons were quite dark. Their was Rodney getting space Alzheimer, the whole story arc with Michael and the all of the "testing" he was doing, Wier dying and then resurrected as a replicant and then committing suicide to save Atlantis, committing genocide to stop the replicators, Dex's old team becoming Wraith agents, etc.

So no, I'm not crazy!

Edited April 15, 2010 by eugimon

[CoryHolmes]

The Atlantis crew were constantly dealing with the mistakes they made. The first season was all about how they screwed up and woke the wraith up. How Sheppard thinks he let Ford down, how Ford went batshit insane. And then later on it was all about how they screwed up against the replicators, how their mr fixit drug against the wraith screwed up. In the last season there was a lot of continuing tension between the characters on the fixit drug they wanted to give to the Wraith and their relationship with Michael.

And if anything, the slapstick became *less* of a component as the series went on, not more. The later seasons were quite dark. Their was Rodney getting space Alzheimer, the whole story arc with Michael and the all of the "testing" he was doing, Wier dying and then resurrected as a replicant and then committing suicide to save Atlantis, committing genocide to stop the replicators, Dex's old team becoming Wraith agents, etc.

So no, I'm not crazy!

As I said, I blame Martin Gero for that. It seems that when he was less involved, the show was markedly superior. And we seem to have different interpretations of the latter seasons, but that's okay. One of the good things about the Stargate franchise is the way it brings discussions to the front and centre.

Also, you?

[sketchley]

I dunno, I thought both SG-1 and Atlantis had life in them, especially Atlantis, thought the last two seasons had some of the strongest episodes.

I'm liking SGU though

Agreed. All of it. Atlantis still had life, and it's a shame that the last episode was as rushed as it was. I hope that the SGA movie gives the series a proper conclusion like Arc of Truth did for SG1/the Ori arc.

SGU is good. BUT, it's way too much at times. I miss the light-heartedness. Which is one of the main reasons why I started Stargate in the first place. (The other reason is location spotting. Former Vancouver resident, here).

Probably the weakest part of SGU, so far, is too many characters with too many agendas (ex: who was the guy who got the Ancient database DLed into his head? Why do all the secondary characters blur together? Why has the plot forgotten about the brain DL thing? (referring to eps. 11 and 12 here). The other weak part was the first episode - honestly, I felt it was boring at times.

(Now before the uber pro-SGU people start dissecting my post, remember the first parts of my post.)

[taksraven]

Agreed. All of it. Atlantis still had life, and it's a shame that the last episode was as rushed as it was. I hope that the SGA movie gives the series a proper conclusion like Arc of Truth did for SG1/the Ori arc.

SGU is good. BUT, it's way too much at times. I miss the light-heartedness. Which is one of the main reasons why I started Stargate in the first place. (The other reason is location spotting. Former Vancouver resident, here).

Probably the weakest part of SGU, so far, is too many characters with too many agendas (ex: who was the guy who got the Ancient database DLed into his head? Why do all the secondary characters blur together? Why has the plot forgotten about the brain DL thing? (referring to eps. 11 and 12 here). The other weak part was the first episode - honestly, I felt it was boring at times.

(Now before the uber pro-SGU people start dissecting my post, remember the first parts of my post.)

You sum it up pretty well. And it still kicks "V"'s arse too......

Taksraven

[CoryHolmes]

And it still kicks "V"'s arse too......

QFT. I can think of several other shows that it beats into the ground, but won't mention them for fear of my own safety

One thing I like about SGU over SGA is that the ship has a sense of scale to it. It looks like a honkin' big spacecraft, while the Lost City of the Ancients always felt more like the Lost Hamelet of the Ancients. I give extra-special props to the aerobraking manouver used in 1x04.

[eugimon]

As I said, I blame Martin Gero for that. It seems that when he was less involved, the show was markedly superior. And we seem to have different interpretations of the latter seasons, but that's okay. One of the good things about the Stargate franchise is the way it brings discussions to the front and centre.

Also, you?

Okay, so how am I wrong?

What was the reset for Wier becoming a replicator? Or the replicator genocide, or Ford going insane. Rodney had a nice multi-season character arc as well as did Dex and Teyla. Even Becket's clone wasn't the same character as Becket and had his own story arc. They even kept track of how offing the various wraith affected that group as a whole and opened it up to making the Todd story arc plausible.

I can understand if you just didn't like it (you do have horrible horrible taste after all ), but that the characters fought, made mistakes, fought over those mistakes and that the characters grew and changed over the seasons isn't really open to interpretation, only the competence in which those things were handled.

The more I watch SGU the more I hate Rush. He's a truly unsympathetic character and he got what he deserved when Young left him on that planet. It's a pity he didn't die there, slowly... I'm quickly losing my patience for Chloe as well.

I think this is a problem the SG franchise has in general. They're so rah-rah pro-military that they make the civilian characters extra pathetic just to help sell it.

[CoryHolmes]

Okay, so how am I wrong?

What was the reset for Wier becoming a replicator? Or the replicator genocide, or Ford going insane. Rodney had a nice multi-season character arc as well as did Dex and Teyla. Even Becket's clone wasn't the same character as Becket and had his own story arc. They even kept track of how offing the various wraith affected that group as a whole and opened it up to making the Todd story arc plausible.

I can understand if you just didn't like it (you do have horrible horrible taste after all ), but that the characters fought, made mistakes, fought over those mistakes and that the characters grew and changed over the seasons isn't really open to interpretation, only the competence in which those things were handled.

How did the City always get repaired between episodes? It sustained massive damage during the Siege (still one of the best episodes of the franchise) and yet was magically repaired by the start of the next episode. Any interpersonal arguments between the characters was ignored at episode's close, as was most injuries sustained. I don't disagree that Atlantis did have some story arcs and some character growth (though McKay did take up a disproportionate amount of screentime towards the end), but the series was far more episodic than I prefer. I don't need B5 levels of serialness, but at least some carry-over between episodes would be nice.

And I DID enjoy SGA. I staunchly defended it when it was on the air, but I've discovered that I enjoy SGU just that much more. SGA is like... a G1 transformer: nice to remember, but blown away by the new stuff (even though Fort Max still is best). SGU has the right combination of plot, character drama, pew pew pew, humour (yes, it is there!), and serialness for me to really enjoy it.

I think this is a problem the SG franchise has in general. They're so rah-rah pro-military that they make the civilian characters extra pathetic just to help sell it.

Dr. Jackson would like to have a word with you about that. Eli, too

Rush is a special case since he was written, right from the start, to be a deeply Machiavellian personality. And he's fulfilled that role beautifully

[Ghost Train]

We're all overthinking here... SGU is just some generic CG space battle and contrived character drama to keep the slot warm for Caprica.

[bluemax151]

Yeah on a technicality we have non military types shining in SG especially in SGA (since everyone but the marines are civvies?) but honestly they're still a component of the protagonist military force.

[azrael]

The problem I'm seeing with SGU, character-wise, is part of the premise of the show. In SGA, the characters all volunteered for the mission or were sent there by orders or whatnot. So everybody who was there, served a purpose there. In SGU, you have a lot of people there who are not suppose to be there. Col. Young wasn't suppose to be the leader of the expedition, Col. Telford was. Etc...... I think from a writing standpoint, it is an interesting dilemma of what to do with these characters. It is both a interesting challenge but at the same time, the writers need to really think about what to do with these people, otherwise, it's going to drag down the show.

[eugimon]

How did the City always get repaired between episodes? It sustained massive damage during the Siege (still one of the best episodes of the franchise) and yet was magically repaired by the start of the next episode. Any interpersonal arguments between the characters was ignored at episode's close, as was most injuries sustained. I don't disagree that Atlantis did have some story arcs and some character growth (though McKay did take up a disproportionate amount of screentime towards the end), but the series was far more episodic than I prefer. I don't need B5 levels of serialness, but at least some carry-over between episodes would be nice.

And I DID enjoy SGA. I staunchly defended it when it was on the air, but I've discovered that I enjoy SGU just that much more. SGA is like... a G1 transformer: nice to remember, but blown away by the new stuff (even though Fort Max still is best). SGU has the right combination of plot, character drama, pew pew pew, humour (yes, it is there!), and serialness for me to really enjoy it.

Uhm no. The tension between Ronan and Sheppard gets carried over the entire Todd story arc. And Rodney brings up how they treated Weir over and over again. There was plenty of carry over for an episodic format show.

Dr. Jackson would like to have a word with you about that. Eli, too

Rush is a special case since he was written, right from the start, to be a deeply Machiavellian personality. And he's fulfilled that role beautifully

Yeah, two protagonist characters who side with the military versus all of the sneaky IOA programs, the evil, corrupt and cowardly politcians, the other various judgmental or profiteering civilians? And even Eli is shown to be whiny and in need of a boot to his ass to get him moving.

[Arthurius]

Well, here is my thoughts on Episodes 10 - 11 - 12

But before i start, let me say that episode 5, light, is still my favorate, but thus far i like all the episodes. Also, i must admit it is fun to see how diverse we all are in what we look for.

Episode 10 was very very dramatic, i have seen Young as a hero, and up till then, always agreed with everything he did. After what he did to Rush. that image has shatered, and i dont like him as i did before. Would i have done teh same thign in his shoes: maybe.... But this is a show, and for the captain, i want him / her to be better than that, though not perfect in everything eather. Still, a huge cliffhanger, good addition to the series.

Episode 11. First time i watched it, i.... HATED it. But the reason is not exactly same as other people. I hated it cause till now, i found the inter-relation between the different episodes to be perfect. On this however, i felt that it was not rightly looking at episode 10. What i mean is, at the end of episode 10, everybody had believed Young on his version that Rush couldnt make it, there was no doubt, because, he already prooved himself he wasnt a murderer, and people who doubted him, especially the asian chick (sorry i forgot her name, no racism intended), trusted Young at that point. The only one who may had doubts on young was Eli..... So what hapened to that. In episode 11, the asian chick, and most civilians, now doubt Young, how did everything change? I was quiete mad at this, and also that, as many have mentioned, the Rush / Young drama ended too soon.

However, after having watched episode 12, and going back to episode 11, and forgetting about episode 10, i quite enjoyed episode 11. Just have to forget the end of episode 10, and all is well. I very much liked the aliens, and the fear in meeting them, very well made, specially when young got into their ship suddenly, that was spooky and unexpecrted. As well, rush saving chloe was a nice moment too. Have to say, in my eyes, Rush gained some points as good guy, though frankly, i see them all as good guys anyways.

Now, episode 12, i have to say, is now my second favorate episode, right after light. I really liked this one, lotsa twist, when the civilians took over the ship, wow that was great, and alians attacked with 3 ships, the bond between Rush and Chloe, i have to say, i liked that alot (most would not). First time around, i was on the milatary's side for taking back the ship, but after having finished watching that episode, and rewatching it, i was on the civilians side 100% (well almost, i did find them a bit too cowardly toward the end), as i felt they did not use violence, and they mostly stood up to what they believed, whilst the milatary ram them over at the end, with no regrets. Have to say greer and the lady soldier lost alot of point there for me, and respect for the civilians won in return. All in all, really really good episode, i doubt the next one will be as good, but honestly cant wait for it.

So, SGU has just somethign where i always cant wait for the next episode to come, no other show had that much apeal to me in a long time.

[Scream Man]

I think this is a problem the SG franchise has in general. They're so rah-rah pro-military that they make the civilian characters extra pathetic just to help sell it.

Up till SGU, and debateably Atlantis that's true. But SGU especially is making the military guys look like real dicks. In fact of all the characters, I think that TJ comes off the best.

[taksraven]

How did the City always get repaired between episodes? It sustained massive damage during the Siege (still one of the best episodes of the franchise) and yet was magically repaired by the start of the next episode.

They have the same repair crew that was responsible for the Space Cruiser Yamato...

Taksraven

[Scream Man]

...or every startrek ship ever except nx-01 Enterprise (Just watched the ep where they had to go to a repait station thing to get fixed up)

[Ghost Train]

...or every startrek ship ever except nx-01 Enterprise (Just watched the ep where they had to go to a repait station thing to get fixed up)

A bit off topic - but in either TNG or TOS the Enterprise(s) never got completely wrecked to the point of needing to dock for repairs. The only exception is when they fought the Borg, and then the Enterprise was shown being docked- even though the ship didn't look that damaged on screen.

The movies are a completely different story. The Enterprise in STII was severely damaged by Khan's manly chest, and as a result it's seen wobbling back to space dock in the beginning of III. And in Nemesis, the -E was literally a few hits from being destroyed (I believe it was the first time ever we see a decompression on the main bridge), and the movie concludes in spacedock. Damm... Picard must have trained Engineering Team III.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Ghost Train

[bluemax151]

I'm developing the exact opposite feelings of Arthurius for the most part. The civvies really annoy me and their actions I've interpreted as pretty petty.

I'm not even sure why the civilians even trust Camile. Yes technically the IOA is a civilian operation by acronym but in practice it's not exactly non military in it's actions. Most especially here in SGU.

[Scream Man]

A bit off topic - but in either TNG or TOS the Enterprise(s) never got completely wrecked to the point of needing to dock for repairs. The only exception is when they fought the Borg, and then the Enterprise was shown being docked- even though the ship didn't look that damaged on screen.

The movies are a completely different story. The Enterprise in STII was severely damaged by Khan's manly chest, and as a result it's seen wobbling back to space dock in the beginning of III. And in Nemesis, the -E was literally a few hits from being destroyed (I believe it was the first time ever we see a decompression on the main bridge), and the movie concludes in spacedock. Damm... Picard must have trained Engineering Team III.

Voyager should have looked more beat up and patchwork by the time the series was drawing to a close, yet always looked pristine at the end of the day

[CoryHolmes]

I'm developing the exact opposite feelings of Arthurius for the most part. The civvies really annoy me and their actions I've interpreted as pretty petty.

I'm not even sure why the civilians even trust Camile. Yes technically the IOA is a civilian operation by acronym but in practice it's not exactly non military in it's actions. Most especially here in SGU.

Bolded for truth. Rewatching that episode gives me so many arguments I wish TJ had thrown in Camille's face (and the rest of her mutineers). Or Rush, for that matter. Why anyone trusts him is beyond belief, it really is...

[lechuck]

...

And in Nemesis, the -E was literally a few hits from being destroyed (I believe it was the first time ever we see a decompression on the main bridge), and the movie concludes in spacedock. Damm... Picard must have trained Engineering Team III.

Every time Nemesis and the damage the -E sustained is mentioned, I always imagine Picard sitting on the edge of his chair,

face-palming and asking why his Enterprise doesn't have a neck and saucer separation.

Voyager should have looked more beat up and patchwork by the time the series was drawing to a close, yet always looked pristine at the end of the day

Lack of attention to plausible external details has sadly always been Star Trek problematic.

Remember DS9, why was the Federation sending out Galaxy-class ships WITH saucer attached to fight the Dominion???

Back on topic:

Watched the first 10 episodes, slow and a bit on the boring side (like season 1 of DS9). I hope the pacing in the episodes pick up a bit.

Oh, and I really wish the trend with shaky cams and constant zooming in and out would just DIE!!!!

[Ghost Train]

Agreed with Voyager's pristine condition lol... no way can a ship look brand new after taking 7 years of beating out in the Delta Quadrant and fighting THE BORG no less. But Voyager sucked, that's my nerd way of explaining things I don't agree with or I don't like.

Every time Nemesis and the damage the -E sustained is mentioned, I always imagine Picard sitting on the edge of his chair,

face-palming and asking why his Enterprise doesn't have a neck and saucer separation.

Lack of attention to plausible external details has sadly always been Star Trek problematic.

Remember DS9, why was the Federation sending out Galaxy-class ships WITH saucer attached to fight the Dominion???

The saucer-separation was just done for coolness imo (oh how easily people were impressed in the 20th century!). Evacuation of civilians so the battle section could continue to fight seemed to be the main point of the separation, but doing so would severely gimp the ship's weaponry, as the saucer section itself contained quite a few phaser arrays. I mean, literally every time the -D fired its phasers on the show it was through the saucer's array.

Back on topic for me too : ... so tonight is the swimsuit fanservice episode?

[Arthurius]

I'm developing the exact opposite feelings of Arthurius for the most part. The civvies really annoy me and their actions I've interpreted as pretty petty.

I'm not even sure why the civilians even trust Camile. Yes technically the IOA is a civilian operation by acronym but in practice it's not exactly non military in it's actions. Most especially here in SGU.

Well, thats how i felt the first time around, was really on the military side. But watching it again, i changed sides!!!! I didnt like how greer and the lady milatary beat up the civilians who have no gun or any means of defense. As well, when Camile just came in between the milatary who was pointing a gun at the civilians, who again didnt have any weapons, i thoughed yah, the civilains are more peacefull . Of course, i hate their cowardness at the end when the milatary just ram in the room and pointed their guns at everyone... I think the civilians should have continued their defiance and fight for their rights... i mean, if they really believed in their cause that is, they were brave enough to defy in milatary in the first place, why chicken out now!!! Oh well, maybe third time around, i will be on the aliens side, haha!!!!

but again, it is great to see such diversity in opinions.

[David Hingtgen]

The Ent-E was designed for saucer separation (at least, John Eaves drew it up and planned it out and everything, and the physical model had the seams and everything--and the saucer was a separate molding--dunno if they actually made the big physical model able to separate after it was finished though).

However, the infamous "CGI tweaks" for Nemesis eliminated that possibility---the saucer got some flares/fairings that "blended" the neck into the saucer, and thus ret-conned-out the separation feature.

Or---the physical Ent-E can, the CG one can't.

::edit:: Here it is: http://www.starshipdatalink.net/art/images/dee-7.jpg (cut-n-paste, no hotlinking)

[Arthurius]

well, watched Hope last night, and yea, it was pretty good (more than expected thats for sure), wander what next episode will bring.

[CoryHolmes]

well, watched Hope last night, and yea, it was pretty good (more than expected thats for sure), wander what next episode will bring.

Ain't that the truth? I thought for sure that it was gonna put me to sleep, but amazingly enough I found myself rivited to the screen and desperate to see what happened next. And threaten to kill someone whenever a commercial break came on Much, much better than I expected and a great episode all-around.

[miles316]

A bit off topic - but in either TNG or TOS the Enterprise(s) never got completely wrecked to the point of needing to dock for repairs. The only exception is when they fought the Borg, and then the Enterprise was shown being docked- even though the ship didn't look that damaged on screen.

The movies are a completely different story. The Enterprise in STII was severely damaged by Khan's manly chest, and as a result it's seen wobbling back to space dock in the beginning of III. And in Nemesis, the -E was literally a few hits from being destroyed (I believe it was the first time ever we see a decompression on the main bridge), and the movie concludes in spacedock. Damm... Picard must have trained Engineering Team III.

In the Next Generation episode Disaster the Enterprise is heading for a Star base for repairs after being hit by the Quantum Filament at the end.

Voyager episode "Year of Hell" Voyager bridge is damaged to the point of having a hole section blown out with only a Force Field holding in the air (yes it Technically did not happened).

Voyager episode "Deadlock" Voyager bridge is rendered uninhabitable, and is abandoned for several days.

The reason why before Voyager's third season they never showed damage was they were using Physical models for the ships meaning they only had one or two detailed models for the show.

In the last season of Voyager in the episode "Nightingale" Voyager is shown undergoing a substantial overhaul they even show several sections of her hull striped of the outer plates either they were being replaces, or just remover to get access to internal parts of the ship.

It is easier to build a model for a Movie that can be altered to show damage like in Wrath of Khan than for a sries like the TNG or Voyager.

[sketchley]

Interesting twists in this latest episode (#13). Alliances appear to be shifting. Though, given the two leads, it's probably just for the moment, and while it's convenient.

Had a major thought running through my head while watching the episode: was that the same location as the one used for the alien village in SG-1's "Paradise Lost"? I swear it is.

The mountains also look familiar. But that could just because I used to live near their - the Fraser Valley. You know, where they film the majority of the outdoor on-location stuff for the various SG series.

Anyhow... the other thought I had was, "alien's will show up" fighting with "but it's a quiet episode" and then "the ancients built it, after they ascended, and are currently watching over the group"... So, for the last 20 minutes, I kept expecting an ancient to appear... nevertheless, I really liked the religion vs realism debate and the optimism vs pesimism that kept popping up. Almost Trekkian.

Random thoughts: during the month that it took for the ship to circle the star, didn't Earth try to contact the ship through the stones?

[eugimon]

I didn't buy it. Last week the civies were staging mutiny, waving guns in people's faces, willing to let people die because they were so distrustful and angry at the military. Now they finally get a chance to escape, to some idyllic garden of eden and young (of all people) is able to convince them to come home.

I get what the episode was trying to do, but I think in terms of story this episode should have come before last week's.