1/2500 SDF-1 Macross

[MechTech]

I'm in. I think Jason did a great job building that. Having it printed in 3D would be great. It will take a while to get the dough together, so once again, give us a heads up when you're ready and a final cost. I think you'll have more people say "yes" as the project progresses and people see progress photos too. - MT

[cobywan]

After finally realizing that you're going to base the kit on my SINGLE FAVORITE SDF-1 mesh ever...

I'm definately interested. To a certain price point.

[Justiciar]

I've posted on a half-dozen or so different web sites and the response hasn't been quite what I was hoping for. I'm sure it's my own fault for not being super clear and whatnot. At this point in time I'm not sure if I'm going to proceed, if only because I really, really can't afford to eat the cost if it turns out that people just don't want it. That said, I'll keep plugging away on it and push off the final decision until I'm ready to actually grow the prototype. So we're not dead, but I'm not committing yet. I'll post updates periodically and if anyone has suggestions, please shout 'em out.

[electric indigo]

Since you already have access to a very good mesh, maybe it would help to produce some juicy visuals. That usually helps a lot in firing up people's appetite. Put the model on a (virtual) desktop next to a coke can so everyone can get an idea of what they'll eventually get.

[cobywan]

You should really put together a package of images to illustrate what it would look like and have a final size figured out. And a good ballpark price as well. I know I was working blind until I figured out exactly what you were proposing.

[Justiciar]

You should really put together a package of images to illustrate what it would look like and have a final size figured out. And a good ballpark price as well. I know I was working blind until I figured out exactly what you were proposing.

There are already a bunch of images available of the specific mesh in question, rendered by Jason himself. I would not be able to add anything new, until I have additional work done on it (paneling, destroid cupolas). But I'm not going to go to that expense if there's not enough interest to warrant it.* Perhaps I should have waited to bring up the subject until after he and I had agreed on a deal. I was thinking that I did not want to waste his time if there wasn't at least a little bit of interest here. I've been pretty consistent in stating that my intention was for 1/2500 with the only divergence that I was willing to listen to alternatives if that's what the community wanted. Also, I said in the very first post that it would likely be in the $250-$300 ballpark. That assumes either ARMDs or Prometheus & Daedalus. I'm not sure what else I can offer: You know what it looks like, you know how big it is, and you have a pretty good idea of what it will cost. It'll be less, maybe $50-$100, if it doesn't include any "arms."

Right now, I feel like I'm going about this the wrong way, but I'm not sure why that is.

*I'm not a 3D modeler. I'm just an idiot that's frequently willing to commission 3D work and grow prototypes, at my own expense, to bring to market cool kits. But this undertaking is much more massive than normal and I simply cannot afford to eat the cost if there's not interest in it.

[Kremmen]

Since you already have access to a very good mesh, maybe it would help to produce some juicy visuals. That usually helps a lot in firing up people's appetite. Put the model on a (virtual) desktop next to a coke can so everyone can get an idea of what they'll eventually get.

Seconding this suggestion, I reckon you'll see people suddenly sitting up and taking a lot more interest. Just having the material right there in the thread will have an effect. Always assume people are lazy and forgetful, a lot of potential customers might not be prepared to bother go looking for the info elsewhere. Hell, people are like that with *contracts*, something I struggle with every day at work.

Also, I agree with Cobywan; Jason's mesh is the greatest!

Edited August 2, 2009 by Kremmen

[cobywan]

I guess I should make myself a little more clear. If you don't do it, some body else should. It's a project that should be done. And done very well.

[EXO]

Though I love Jay-Lew's mesh of the SDF-1, I had feelings that this project wouldnt go thru. There's a lot of factors that would make people shy away from getting this.

1. One is the looming 1/2000 Yamato Macross. Transforming and made of plastic and probably die cast joints.
2. Flooded market. Too many Macross products, Toys and models out there that people are saving up for.
3. Economy, 'nuff said...

After the Thunder Hammer, I was planning to come out with a transformable 1/1500 DYRL Macross. It was gonna be big and expensive. Then someone heard about the intention and told me about the Yamato version about a year before it was announced and I promptly put the project on hold. But now with the flooded market and the economy, I wouldnt even have offered the Thunder Hammer. What Cobywan is saying has merit though. I think the success of the TH lends to the fact that the project was done and pictures were posted before it was offered to the members of this board. The model/toy accessory sold out in less than three hours as I recall and we had a limited second run just based on the waiting list alone, no announcements.

But I was still hoping that the project would go thru.

[cobywan]

This project has two great aspects that set it apart.

The model would be 19" long.

It the TV version. Which has had NO love in 25 years. It's the one I really want a super detailed model of.

The Yamato toy doesn't look so hot in the photo's I've seen so far. I thought there was more elegance to the TV version as well. It certainly closes up tighter in cruise mode when compared to the motion picture version.

[cobywan]

This project has two great aspects that set it apart.

The model would be 19" long.

It the TV version. Which has had NO love in 25 years. It's the one I really want a super detailed model of.

The Yamato toy doesn't look so hot in the photo's I've seen so far. I thought there was more elegance to the TV version as well. It certainly closes up tighter in cruise mode when compared to the motion picture version.

[Ghadrack]

I've seen the quality of the 1/2500 models that justicar has done. I know he has the capcity to do a great kit, and I agreewith Cobywan that the TV version hasn't had the love in a long time and I want one.

As a garage kit buyer, i also knwo the hesitation that people have in agreeing to pay for something without seeing what the end product actually looks like, so i don't know how you get a real honest guage of desire without a prototype or kit in hand. Since the initial one is going to be uber expensive, i don't know what you do. I'd be willing to bet that even if you didnt' get flooded with order right off, this would be a kit that you will be able to sell several every few months, probably forever.

Ask Christpher Doll who made the Moya kit from Farscape, he doesn't sell a ton of them every month but they sell continuously and he has had to keep remolding that kit for the last 6 years.

[cobywan]

Speaking of which, I still need to finish that kit. I've got it in Champagne Gold right now.

So STL isn't the ONLY way to get this model done. I've been taking baby steps with the capacity of our CNC router these days at work...

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sn...6_1092524_n.jpg

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2...160_4614746.jpg

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sn...64_857629_n.jpg

[Justiciar]

Not actually using STL/SLA, but Polyjet instead. Somewhat similar process, in that it builds layers up, but otherwise different. Polyjet has a layer thickness of 0.0006" thick, which is an order of magnitude better than most rapid-prototypers. I'm considering looking into running it on a CNC mill, but that costs a helluva lot more than growing, unless one knows a guy with mill (I was quoted $125,000.00 to CNC a 1/285 Tomahawk mold). I know two people that might be able to do it.

If I grow it, it really will look like the renders. I have over 20 models available for sale that were created in this process, so I know it to be true. I'm still working on getting photos of casted parts, but anyone who has seen them will say the same.

I'm just not willing to spend $3300 developing this and then hoping that people want it. I can almost understand not wanting to commit to a model without seeing it, except that I can think of several instances here where that has not been the case. Community involvement and reputation has its privileges, which is only natural. Still, I did ask that no one say "Go for it!" if they weren't willing to ante up when the time came. So I got what I asked for and that's quite all right.

[EXO]

How about starting off with a smaller project to fund the SDF-1? Say the Prometheus or Deadalus or something completely different? It'll give people an idea what they will get and make some money to develop the main project? Just a thought.

[Justiciar]

How about starting off with a smaller project to fund the SDF-1? Say the Prometheus or Deadalus or something completely different? It'll give people an idea what they will get and make some money to develop the main project? Just a thought.

I currently have 24 kits available, ranging in price from $8.50 to $35 apiece, all of which include decals. I posted info for this in my initial post for this thread. I wish that sales of those kits provided funding for developing this, but they're still haven't paid for themselves. My reasoning was similar to yours; it just hasn't worked out in practice that way.

[big F]

How about starting off with a smaller project to fund the SDF-1? Say the Prometheus or Deadalus or something completely different? It'll give people an idea what they will get and make some money to develop the main project? Just a thought.

Or what if you made the Prometheus and/or Deadalus available as a part 1 and then got everyone fired up then dropped an SDF1 with out the Prometheus and Deadalus that way people would have to get both, later if interest was sufficiant you could just offer it as a complet set also.

[neptunesurvey]

Or you can start with the ARMD platform.

[thegunny]

Is this project shaking hands with the Titanic or is it just floating off shore waiting for the tide to come in

[Ghadrack]

Is this project shaking hands with the Titanic or is it just floating off shore waiting for the tide to come in

Justicar can do this and do it well, I've got a half dozen of his Star Trek kits, they are tiny and highly detailed. After the 1/2000 toy fiasco I hope that enough people decide that they'd rather have a model kit and get interested but only time will tell.

[Justiciar]

I feel like I did a bad enough job representing what I wanted to do that people here don't trust me. It's as if they feel that I'm trying to pull a fast one, violate their childhood or some other unsavory act. I'm sorry if that's the impression I've given because it was not my intent. This past year has been financially ruinous for me and I don't want to invest in a gamble. I rarely outright cancel a project, but I will back-burner it until circumstances change to something more favorable.

What's the "1/2000 toy fiasco?"

[Ghadrack]

I feel like I did a bad enough job representing what I wanted to do that people here don't trust me. It's as if they feel that I'm trying to pull a fast one, violate their childhood or some other unsavory act. I'm sorry if that's the impression I've given because it was not my intent. This past year has been financially ruinous for me and I don't want to invest in a gamble. I rarely outright cancel a project, but I will back-burner it until circumstances change to something more favorable.

What's the "1/2000 toy fiasco?"

Not at all, We just need to get a couple pictures of your completed scale kits posted in the thread so people can see what you've done, a little eye candy never hurts

1/2000 toy fiasco was referring to the fact that Yamato toys was going to make a large scale version of the SDF-1, it was mentioned back in the thread several months ago and probably lead to some people gettnig cold feet about the idea of a model kit. There was price speculation, but then the company came out and the thing was going to retail for like $2,300.00 and just be a high end resin kit made by a prototyping company, so someone in the US was going to be looking at nearly $3,000.00 after purchase and shipping costs to get one, if they could at all.

[THOR]

count me in should i still have a job when you're done

-THOR

Edited November 12, 2009 by THOR

[jontom]

For me, the "real" SDF-1 has the Prometheus and Daedalus attached. I've been wanting a version of that classic look for ages!

[thegunny]

Justicar can do this and do it well, I've got a half dozen of his Star Trek kits, they are tiny and highly detailed. After the 1/2000 toy fiasco I hope that enough people decide that they'd rather have a model kit and get interested but only time will tell.

I didn't question Justicar's abilities nor do I give a rats arse about the toy and I'm sure most other serious modellers don't either, all I wanted to know is it ever going to happen.

Justicar has given his reasons although I'm not sure where the pulling a fast one came from unless there were behind the scenes carryings on. It is good to know that he hasn't completely abandoned the idea and once your economy climbs out of the toilet hopefully it will get off the ground.

[Ghadrack]

I didn't question Justicar's abilities nor do I give a rats arse about the toy and I'm sure most other serious modellers don't either, all I wanted to know is it ever going to happen.

Justicar has given his reasons although I'm not sure where the pulling a fast one came from unless there were behind the scenes carryings on. It is good to know that he hasn't completely abandoned the idea and once your economy climbs out of the toilet hopefully it will get off the ground.

I wasn't accusing you of anything, just trying to give some positive reinforcement that there are people around who know his work, trying to inject some positivity I think there was some internet miscommunication early on.

[Justiciar]

The "fast one" comment was based on the response when I said I was thinking about DYRL ARMDs with TV SDF-1. I personally think it's the best of both worlds, but apparently that's Not Cool. No misdeeds were intended and no, there hasn't been anything going on "Behind the scenes."

[cobywan]

Why not make the TV version ARMD platforms. That would be totally Kosher.

[Justiciar]

Why not make the TV version ARMD platforms. That would be totally Kosher.

I don't have a 3D model of one already, which is another cost. Beyond cost, I find the TV ARMD to be unappealing and I have a harder time getting motivated to do things that I'm not interested in. That is not to say that it won't happen, just that it might take me longer than normal. Right now, I'm leaning towards doing each "ship" as a separate kit and letting people roll their own. For the short list, that's Jay-Lew's TV SDF-1, Prometheus, Daedalus, TV ARMD, DYRL ARMD-01 and -02.

[THOR]

add me to the list.

-THOR

[neko_fr]

Hello!

Despite the bad futur of my wallet , count me in too, please.

Whatever is the model of SDF-1 you'll build, I'll be interrested

[Ranger565]

Which is why we're talking about it before I actually proceed with anything. (Star Trek fans can be pretty hardcore as well)

The SDF-1, regardless of film or TV version, is just that: It's the SDF-1 and nothing more. In both versions the ship was meant to dock with the ARMD platforms, yes? (and actually did in DYRL?) My personal preference would be to do it as it was intended, but that's just me. That's why I'm asking for feedback.

An added bonus is that I already have an ARMD mesh that I can use. It's a film ARMD. I don't have Prometheus and Daedalus meshes and generating them would cost me. I don't want to do that for obviously reasons, but again, I'm perfectly willing to go that route if that's what the masses desire.

OTOH, we could also do this as just the SDF-1 and keep Prometheus, Daedalus and ARMD models as separate kits. That would make the SDF-1 itself cheaper. Or we could go with an uber-kit that has all of the above, though that would make it cost more. Plenty of time to hammer out the kinks.

I guess my general thought on the subject is that it's not uncommon to see garage kits with some liberties taken, making them stylized, etc. But it's completely OK if others don't agree. There's nothing binding here. Like I said, right now we're talking about it to figure out if it's viable and how we want it. It'll be crystal clear what's in the kit once we start talking about real money.

I am in for the TV version. BUT I would love the ARMD to go next to it as if they are in a fleet. That would be sick!

[cobywan]

I don't have a 3D model of one already, which is another cost. Beyond cost, I find the TV ARMD to be unappealing and I have a harder time getting motivated to do things that I'm not interested in. That is not to say that it won't happen, just that it might take me longer than normal. Right now, I'm leaning towards doing each "ship" as a separate kit and letting people roll their own. For the short list, that's Jay-Lew's TV SDF-1, Prometheus, Daedalus, TV ARMD, DYRL ARMD-01 and -02.

The ARMD from the TV series doesn't have to be 3D printed.

[Justiciar]

The ARMD from the TV series doesn't have to be 3D printed.

Somebody makes a 1/2500 TV ARMD? Or are you suggesting that since the TV ARMDs were destroyed early on that there's no desire for them? Or that I could find an alternate method of making them?

[Dobber]

I would also like to say that Davids (Justicair's) kits are beautiful, I have two of them...the MacArthur and the Abbe. Incredible detail and casting at such a small scale 1/2500. Sorry Daivid I didn't see this thread before. I like the idea of making the "components" separate so people can mix and match as they like.

Chris