Michael Jackson RIP

[anime52k8]

Good riddance. I was more of a Prince fan as a kid although I like the Jackson 5 stuff, however, he was a pedophile, and we all know he was, and I like to think as a parent that there's a special place in hell for a piece of f***ing piece of sh*t like him. I feel bad for Ed and Farrah, and don't wish death on anyone unless they truly deserve it, and he did. At least per his will McCartney gets back all the Beatles catalog.

I think if you do something great enough you get a free pass when it comes to being a pedophile. Roman Polanski made Rosemary's Baby, Michael Jackson made thriller.

[Keith]

As I recall, he was never convicted. Yeah, Jackson was weird... is that why everyone is so quick to label him a child molester without looking at the evidence? Is it more believable to think that a man-child was getting on with little boys than to think that the boys and/or their parents weren't trying to extort some money out of a wealthy celebrity?

Exactly, Micheal Jackson may have been many things, a bit misguided at times, and a self inflicted victim of plasitc surgury, but to label someone a child molsester just because he had a huge target on his back that screamed "$$$" is complete bullsh!t. As far as me goes, I'll be watching my Japanese import DVD of Moonwalker, and hoping someone decides to release Captain EO on bluray with full 3D.

Kudo's to a great musical genius, both in his younger years, and 80's pop heyday. It's just too bad we don't have real singers & artists anymore, at least domesticaly.

Edited June 26, 2009 by Keith

[eugimon]

He put that target on his own back. I'm sorry, grown man who has slumber parties with prepubescent boys again and again even after paying out millions in shush money... maybe he wasn't a molester, i don't know and I don't care. Personally I think the parents who let their kids spend the night with him are the only ones we know for sure are sick in the head but I can understand why the charge of pedophile has stuck with MJ for all this time.

[VFTF1]

Given some of the comments in this thread, I begin to understand why MJ left the US.

I never had any attachment to the man's music. My only memory is of being at a friend's house when I was a kid and her brother had Thriller and I think we listened to it for a while. Then, later, I remember his "come back" with Black and White, which I found mildly entertaining.

I was always amused by his style and looks (amused in a positive way). His music wasn't bad, but it just didn't move me. I was into ass rock way more than into MJ.

Truth be told - I developed my biggest sympathy for MJ when he was being pulled from court to court, accussed by everyone, used and abused by everyone, and appeared to basically be looked upon as a walking ATM or a freak just because of how he looked/dressed.

So - I guess you can say I'm a "Later-MJ fan" because I don't like when people are ragged on.

Michael Jackson got a full blown court trial - he was acquitted, but the whole affair basically ruined his publicity state-side and compelled him to go into exile.

I think that's sad.

Second of all - because OBVIOUSLY I don't know for a fact that he wasn't a pedophile - although I do know as a matter of law that he was not proven guilty, which means that legally he is innocent - I still would like to make the point that when a human being dies, it is impolite (to put it mildly) to rejoice at that death. Every one of us has something to be ashamed of - and I'm sure there are people who have gone through our lives who can point their fingers at us and say "he's the one who...[fill in the grudge]" - but I still say that all of us deserve some basic respect.

At worse - fine - yes - pedophiles are bad. Liars are bad. Crooks are bad. They are all terrible. If this guy was one of them - he too is bad.

But you know who else is bad?

People who spit on the dead instead of taking the time to for a moment step outside of their justified or unjustified view of that dead person and pay their respects.

Which is what this thread is about IMO.

Pete

[eugimon]

He wasn't proven innocent. He was found not guilty. There's a huge difference.

The man was a polarizing figure, telling people to shut up who voice their opinions about a man who purposefully mired himself in controversy is rather silly. MJ courted the publicity and profited off of his fame and notoriety. I think it's perfectly reasonable for people who have issues with honoring a man so often accused of heinous actions against children to continue to voice their issues with him, dead or not.

Edited June 26, 2009 by eugimon

[D_Unit]

In life there are those who are truly evil and those who are mentally ill. I tend to think Micheal was the latter.

He may well have done some very inexcusable things or he may have been taken advantage of.

But in O.J.'s case; that mofo's gotta die and rot in hell soon! Either that or get rapped in jail for the rest of his miserable life! And same to you Phil Spector... loved the Wall of Sound BTW... but you still suck!

Edit: Whoopee; now I can wax armor instead of swabbing decks.

Edited June 26, 2009 by D_Unit

[VFTF1]

I know - that's why I wrote:

I do know as a matter of law that he was not proven guilty,

The idea of finding someone "innocent" is anathemic to American law. And good - because people shouldn't have to prove their "innocence." The burden of proof always rests on the accuser.

But my point wasn't to argue about whether or not he was or wasn't innocent, but rather the end portion of my post was my point.

But in O.J.'s case; that mofo's gotta die and rot in hell soon! Either that or get rapped in jail for the rest of his miserable life!

It has always amazed me how people tend to think that being right justifies them in thinking thoughts that are wrong.

Pete

Edited June 26, 2009 by VFTF1

[myk]

People who spit on the dead instead of taking the time to for a moment step outside of their justified or unjustified view of that dead person and pay their respects.

Pete

Your words are truly humane and honorable, but I have to say that respect is earned, it isn't given away. Am I glad that a fellow human being has prematurely died? No. Am I glad that a potential-pedophile is on his way to burn in whatever hell he believes in, f**k yeah. At this point, unless you actually believe in some sort of higher ethereal power, the only person that knows the truth about MJ's guilt or innocence has died and taken the truth with him; I say we let the man and his truth rest in peace. Whether he was innocent or guilty doesn't matter anymore...

Edited June 26, 2009 by myk

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Anyways, he was a massive one of a kind talent, and it's a sad day. HOOOOOOOOO! Forever love your music Michael! Edited June 26, 2009 by ruskiiVFaussie

[D_Unit]

I know - that's why I wrote:

The idea of finding someone "innocent" is anathemic to American law. And good - because people shouldn't have to prove their "innocence." The burden of proof always rests on the accuser.

But my point wasn't to argue about whether or not he was or wasn't innocent, but rather the end portion of my post was my point.

It has always amazed me how people tend to think that being right justifies them in thinking thoughts that are wrong.

Pete

Thou art as benevolent as thou art understanding my friend. I have to admit that it is a terrible though about O.J.. In then end, life really isn't about heaven or hell... it's much much more than that (believe me... I've had a near death experience).

At times I find myself alone, adrift in a sea of opinion, hypocrisy, and ignorance... it's cool to hear a voice of reason from time to time. It truly smooths the eternal rage within me.

[Hiriyu]

Honestly, I'm a bigger fan of his Jackson 5 and late 70's/early 80's (pre-Thriller) stuff.

Hearing THOSE songs again on the radio today reminded me what made him so damn good. I mean I never hear "Got To Be There" EVER on the radio, and I heard it probably two or three times just this evening alone.

It's just too bad most folks tend to forget those R&B parts of his catalogue and focus more on the later, more pop stuff.

Is he a weirdo? Yes. But dammit, the music he and his brothers made before all the zany-ness and the nosejobs was pretty tight.

Damn straight.

[Keith]

And don't forget, without Micheal Jackson, emo kids wouldn't have anything to wear, nor would Cloud Strike, Kira Yamato, the list goes on!

[eugimon]

And don't forget, without Micheal Jackson, emo kids wouldn't have anything to wear, nor would Cloud Strike, Kira Yamato, the list goes on!

MJ is responsible for spawning Kira Yamato??? Just one more reason to spite him.

[eugimon]

I know - that's why I wrote:

The idea of finding someone "innocent" is anathemic to American law. And good - because people shouldn't have to prove their "innocence." The burden of proof always rests on the accuser.

But my point wasn't to argue about whether or not he was or wasn't innocent, but rather the end portion of my post was my point.

It has always amazed me how people tend to think that being right justifies them in thinking thoughts that are wrong.

Pete

Thinking thoughts that are wrong? lol.

You know what other thoughts are "wrong" standing on the dead to try to make yourself look better.

If someone thought a guy was a murderer, rapist, molester, tax cheater, whatever, in life, it's reasonable that they would think those thoughts about the person in death. Why should people who didn't respect someone in life have to feign respect in death?

Edited June 26, 2009 by eugimon

[Keith]

MJ is responsible for spawning Kira Yamato??? Just one more reason to spite him.

[eugimon]

omg... I wasn't ever a fan of his music so I never saw that piece of costuming before.... gah!

[D_Unit]

A bit off topic but thinking about all the celebrities that have passed away and how one was mired by allegations of pedophilia, one with drug abuse, and one with financial ineptitude.

Yet look at what they have accomplished in their lives. I make no excuses for people's faults but we all have them. Sometimes I look at what I've done in my life and it pales in comparison.

It's kinda strange but I've never been they guy to judge others, either I hate them or I don't... that's it. I'm more interested in who I am and what I can do with my life. I know it's cool to criticize/compare ourselves to others but I guess I'm more critical about myself.

I know many of us can look ourselves in the mirror and be proud that we've lived a good and honest life... but I want more than that dammit! I want excitement, romance, giant robots & alien spacecrafts!!! I guess what I'm saying is, I'm envious of some people who although their lives may have faults; they lived in their brief moments what some of us can't in many lifetimes.

[D_Unit]

Thinking thoughts that are wrong? lol.

You know what other thoughts are "wrong" standing on the dead to try to make yourself look better.

If someone thought a guy was a murderer, rapist, molester, tax cheater, whatever, in life, it's reasonable that they would think those thoughts about the person in death. Why should people who didn't respect someone in life have to feign respect in death?

Yeah, I'd like to be feel at peace with people as much as I can... but I'm ashamed to say that I do want O.J. to die from massive rapage.

[Keith]

Maybe it's more of an issue of reasonable doubt. People who believe he did those things do so on no real evidence of it, just as those who believe he didn't don't truly have evidence that he didn't. That's the whole point of a trial, if there's firm evidence to pin a crime on someone, than they go to jail, if there isn't they don't. As someone mentioned earlier, this isn't an OJ style issue with a history of domestic voilence, documented evidence, and a court trial that hinged more on racial issues then anything else. This is about a man who had his name ruined based on little more than conjecture from morally questionable people.

Those hwo believed he was some weirdo because of the way he acted/dressed tend to believe he was a pedophile based on those parameters. Those who followed his career and accepted his quirks as just that, tend to believe he was innoncent of those actions. Personally, I fall into the catagory of the latter.

If anything, had he been some normal guy who hung out with kids and had sleepovers, then yeah, I would be inclined to believe he was some demented pervert. Most (as there are acceptions to all rules) pedophiles aren't weirdo's who stand out in public, they're average Joe looking sports coaches, scout leaders, or bicycle shop owners who lull in Arnold & Dudley with candy, alchohol & pornography, then take pictures of them without their shirts on. They don't invite parents over to hang out with them too, build theme parks with crazy zoo animals, etc. A bit misguided? Yes, I think that was the whole point. but I believe more than anything, Micheal Jackson was someone who understood what it was like to have a childhood screwed with, so I honestly don't believe he would impose that on anyone else.

I'm reminded of the whole matter of Paul Ruebens. Jeffrey Jones gets tagged for possessing child pornography, then makes a deal to help snag someone bigger, i.e. Paul Ruebens. So what happens? He stays over Paul Rueben's house under friendly pretences, uses "his" computer to download child porn, then turns him in for it. Who got tagged & dragged through the mud? Who walked away smelling like a rose?

Edited June 26, 2009 by Keith

[Keith]

Yeah, I'd like to be feel at peace with people as much as I can... but I'm ashamed to say that I do want O.J. to die from massive rapage.

And chronic herpies.

[Twoducks]

Never convicted and it always stank from the side of the parents and the media circus so I'll leave it at him being a weirdo man-child celebrety.

Still, the weirdo man-child has left a mark on popular culture very difficult to top.

And I'm more outraged at all the bastards that have put us in the current world economic situation, that live happily in their impenetrable castles and of whom I won't even get to know their names, much less their faces.

THOSE have really hurt/killed millions of people, THOSE deserve a good hell raping, not a public figure elevated to legend when he clearly wasn’t mentally fit to handle it and whose biggest sin was being accused of touching some boys by a media circus and some parents who were really quick to shut up once a few bucks were flashed.

[taksraven]

But you know who else is bad?

People who spit on the dead instead of taking the time to for a moment step outside of their justified or unjustified view of that dead person and pay their respects.

Which is what this thread is about IMO.

Pete

Nope. I can never accept the view that if a person is dead they should then be given some sort of magical social shield to protect them from the sins that they have committed during their lives.

As far as I am concerned "don't speak ill of the dead" is crap.

I went to high school with an absolute moron, who saw fit to abuse me physically and emotionally in very extreme ways. But it seemed that it was only myself and a few others that he decided to be nasty to. To other people, he was all sweetness and light.

Twelve months after high school, he died horribly in a car crash. After his death, and at the funeral, from what I heard, everybody was saying what a great guy he was, like he was some sort of hero.

And I did not have one ounce of sympathy for his death. In fact, I was glad. And it still makes me smile today knowing all the sort of stuff that bastard missed out on by dying so young.

This is why i take a dim view of people who treat me like crap for no apparent reason and yet brown nose others.

Getting back to today. Just remember, chances are that there are people out there now who are not so sad that Jackson died. There are people who probably don't have such fond memories of him.

If you like him and wish to ignore this, fair enough, worship him however you want, just don't expect everybody to tow the line.

Taksraven

[kanedaestes]

Hey guys I started this thread knowing that there would be issues surrounding such a controversial figure, thus the subtitle. I really don't want this to turn into a forum about if the man is or isn't a pedophile. I was a fan of his music and I started the thread to pay recognition to a great artist. If you have problems with the guy, which most of us do including myself, please let's not bring it in here.

[anime52k8]

And same to you Phil Spector... loved the Wall of Sound BTW... but you still suck!

come on, without Phil Spector we wouldn't have You've lost that lovin' feelin' what would the world be without that? what would Top Gun have been like without that?!? That's got to count for something...