Sheryl Nome: Building a better Basara?

[Fadooski]

I should preface this by saying that I've haven't seen all of Macross 7. I should also disclose that I don't like Basara.

I think of how Sheryl incorporates elements of DYRL Minmei, Sharon Apple and Basara. One of the reasons I didn't like Basara is that he came across very self-centred. He never sings to anyone, he sings at them. He tries to force people to be affected by his music. He's also narcisistic in his dealings with the rest of Firebomber, to the point of being unprofessional. Showing up to gigs on time and making it to rehearsal often seem to be too much for him. When Mylene quite reasonbly gets upset at this, he ignores her.

Sheryl has the same agressiveness that Basara has, the same ballsy stage presence and even a simillar refrain. However, she is a professional. She takes the 'work' aspect of her art very seriously. Even at the end when she's generating fold waves against the vajra, she still applies that strong professionalism.

I don't know, I just feel like what they were trying to present with Basara, the did better with Sheryl. She's certainly easier to take.

[Gubaba]

I should preface this by saying that I've haven't seen all of Macross 7. I should also disclose that I don't like Basara.

I think of how Sheryl incorporates elements of DYRL Minmei, Sharon Apple and Basara. One of the reasons I didn't like Basara is that he came across very self-centred. He never sings to anyone, he sings at them. He tries to force people to be affected by his music. He's also narcisistic in his dealings with the rest of Firebomber, to the point of being unprofessional. Showing up to gigs on time and making it to rehearsal often seem to be too much for him. When Mylene quite reasonbly gets upset at this, he ignores her.

Sheryl has the same agressiveness that Basara has, the same ballsy stage presence and even a simillar refrain. However, she is a professional. She takes the 'work' aspect of her art very seriously. Even at the end when she's generating fold waves against the vajra, she still applies that strong professionalism.

I don't know, I just feel like what they were trying to present with Basara, the did better with Sheryl. She's certainly easier to take.

I think it's a difference of perspective. Basar'as into music, not the music business. Being free to pay what he wants when he wants in of paramount importance to him, far more than if he makes any money or pleases anyone by doing so.

Sheryl, on the other hand, loves music, but she also wants to live the life of a pop star. She enjoys the fame and attention, and being adored. Basara doesn't really care.

So it seems to me that Sheryl is the one being narcissistic (and pragmatic).

But I will agree that I'd rather spend a weekend with her than with Basara.

[iker]

i see Basara as the typical indie artist :"I don't give a damn about the critics or record labels. I won't give it up until you hear why my album/song is the greatest thing since sliced bread because music is art not a business". And his kind of carefree attitude is also a big turn off.

And sheryl is almost the perfect opposite, "just because is art doesn't mean this isn't a bussiness".

[dreamweaver13]

But I will agree that I'd rather spend a weekend with her than with Basara.

Funny, the rest of your post seems jumbled somehow, and this is the only part i was able to read...

i keed. i keed.

[Keith]

Entirely different animals. Sheryl is an Idol, Basara is an idealist. Basara was out to move mountains with his song, Sheryl was out to be, well Sheryl. Non sequitur comparison!

Edited June 25, 2009 by Keith

[dreamweaver13]

Entirely different animals. Sheryl is an Idol, Basara is an idealist. Basara was out to move mountains with his song, Sheryl was out to be, well Sheryl. Non sequitur comparison!

i agree, but you'd have to wonder if there's a little basara somewhere deep inside sheryl. one of her greatest frustrations upon observing ranka's rise to fame is her inability to affect the enemy with her music. sounds familiar.

[VFTF1]

There is a little Basara inside Sheryl, just like there was a little Basara inside Myung.

But I don't see Sheryl as badly as all of you. She STILL kept singing even after her professional life fell apart. Remember - she had her bout of depression and doubt, and a lot of that could have been laced with her knowledge of having the V Virus and her imminent death - but she didn't stop singing.

Remember when Sheryl stood up in the shelter and sang to comfort people after the Vajra attacked and Ranka Lee was no where to be found or heard?

Give Sheryl some credit. She was MADE by Grace to be an idol - but in reality she is an idealist. The only reason she yearned for idol status was because of her lingering insecurities. She had no parents, no family - she was a poor starving orphan.

The life of an idol was the only world she knew where she could feel loved and safe.

The prospect of that world falling apart meant returning to a world where no one knew her or cared about her. For most of us who have familieis and friends - even if we lose our jobs or have some similar hardship - people still love us.

Sheryl had no one to love her beyond the fans.

But that's when Alto stepped in - and it's Alto who showed her that she doesn't need to worry about being an "idol" to feel loved - but she should simply sing because it's what she does (just like flying is what Alto does) [reference episode 5 and the discussion about why people sing/fly etc with Klan/Sheryl/Alto].

So...

I think you guys are basing your view of Sheryl merely off of the beginning of Frontier - particularly episode 1 - where she did come across as a typical vapid idol...

Oh - and final argument:

Look how Sheryl treats Ranka - encouraging her, helping her, but also knowing when NOT to "lend a hand" in order for Ranka to experience some hardship in making her own path.

If Sheryl weren't an idealist - she wouldn't care about helping Ranka as much as she did.

Heck - perfect example: episode 10, the set of Birdman.

The winner of the Miss Macross contest walks up to Sheryl - "oh - sheryl-san..."

And Sheryl doesn't even say "hello" - she just walks past her and goes up to Ranka and then makes a show of forcing Alto to be nice and say encouraging things.

This isn't the behavior of a pragmatic pro. This is the behavior of an idealist. She basically told that chick "the only reason you won the contest was because of your boobs [which are smaller than mine!] and the only reason you star in this movie is because of your boobs too." while she knew that Ranka was someone who had a future and was someone special.

So...

Basara and Sheryl would likely get married if they met - perfect fit!

Pete

[Keith]

i agree, but you'd have to wonder if there's a little basara somewhere deep inside sheryl. one of her greatest frustrations upon observing ranka's rise to fame is her inability to affect the enemy with her music. sounds familiar.

And both were ressurected...hmm.

[Killer Robot]

I think it's a difference of perspective. Basar'as into music, not the music business. Being free to pay what he wants when he wants in of paramount importance to him, far more than if he makes any money or pleases anyone by doing so.

Sheryl, on the other hand, loves music, but she also wants to live the life of a pop star. She enjoys the fame and attention, and being adored. Basara doesn't really care.

So it seems to me that Sheryl is the one being narcissistic (and pragmatic).

But I will agree that I'd rather spend a weekend with her than with Basara.

All the same, it feels simplistic to say the difference is Sheryl caring about the business side of things and Basara not.

There are a lot of common threads between them: strong sense of independence(even if Sheryl was guided behind her back), demanding artists who want things to go according to their plan, and above all they, yes, want to move the galaxy with their song. Basara doesn't measure his share of the limelight by TV appearances and record deals and such, it's true: he just wants to sing when and where he wants to, and he wants even the mountains to move to his call. By contrast, Sheryl does put a great deal into the social niceties of her role - she'd never miss an interview or a performance, she always wants to look her best...but then, that goes with her always being ready to perform.

But is that willingness to perform on demand, at the call others rather than her own, a self-centered thing either? As said, Basara's freedom to sing when and how he wants matters more than whether he pleases anyone. Even his desire to move people is strictly on his terms - he'll sing the same thing at you again and again until you give in, whether it's from slow-onset music appreciation, J-rock induced Stockholm Syndrome, or sheer power of plot. Sheryl's pushy too(poor Alto) but does seem to care for the experience of her audience in addition to her song and her fame: when she wants someone to listen to her song she works to motivate and fascinate, give people what they want as well as what she wants to give them. Even if she's not feeling it, she's got a way of motivating herself into being Sheryl Nome as well.

Not to be too harsh on Basara: they're different archetypes all the same. Basara is fundamentally a musician, perhaps moreso than anyone else in the Macross continuity. Sheryl is a performer, likewise perhaps moreso than anyone else we've seen in a Macross series. Still, he seems to more be broadcasted message to the world and she seems to be more shared experience of the crowd, and I'd say the second comes closer to embodying the core of culture as it is presented in Macross.

As an addendum, I think one thing that makes the comparison and contrast hard to do is that Sheryl is the first time we've really gotten much look at an established star in a Macross series, comfortable with fame after a couple of years in the spotlight. SDFM Minmay, Fire Bomber, and Ranka were all rising from their modest ambitions to star status in the course of their series, and even DYRL Minmay and Sharon Apple were stars when introduced but still the newest thing - Myung had the public assurance act down but it was complicated by her being the woman behind the curtain, and Sharon herself wasn't the interview type. It's hard to call her too used to being famous when she's the only major character we've seen that's had a chance.

P.S.: Checking preview after writing this and seeing the new posts since I started writing this, it is an important thing that even before Sheryl's life came apart and she had to learn to rely on her friends, she was about more of the fame. In the referenced scene in Episode 5 she was the one that told Alto people sing because they can't not sing. When news came of the attack on Galaxy, she was the one that told him she was going on with the concert because singing was what she did. Alto and Ranka, and Michael and Klan for that matter, showed Sheryl she had people to turn to, but performance being her nature and her calling were her own words, and Alto using them to pull her from despair was more calling her on a lie than telling her a new truth.

[Killer Robot]

Basara and Sheryl would likely get married if they met - perfect fit!

He's old enough to be her father. By past Macross experience, some tabloid has probably already claimed he is.

[dreamweaver13]

But I don't see Sheryl as badly as all of you. She STILL kept singing even after her professional life fell apart. Remember - she had her bout of depression and doubt, and a lot of that could have been laced with her knowledge of having the V Virus and her imminent death - but she didn't stop singing.

whoah, whoah, WHOA! where did that "all of you" come from? and why the impression that we were dissin on sheryl at all? I don't know about the others, but if you were including me in your reply, you might have missed my bias towards sheryl from all my posts in MW. i resent not being labeled an irrational sheryl fanboy!!

Edited June 25, 2009 by dreamweaver13

[VFTF1]

I guess given all the Ranka-Love that I have been spewing for over a year, my guilty conscious got the better of me and initiated a cathartic pro-Sheryl outburt that targeted random bystanders

Pete

[Bri]

Sheryl and Basara are polar opposites. As killer robot already mentioned, Basara is a musician and Sheryl a performer. Personality wise they also differ a lot.

Basara is a solitary being, independant and as low maintenance as humans can be. No interest in material wealth, fame or a desire to please and fiercely true to his principals, a ronin. Fundamentally, Basara has no insecurities as he has no ego to speak of. His disregard for social convention annoys people but he is a kind and loyal person.

Sheryl is a social creature, high maintenance, ambition stemming from an insatiable need for attention and acceptance. Socially gifted she worked her way up in the idol/music business. Her selfesteem is based on her achievements. I guess this is why the revelations by Grace hit so hard and cause her selfconfidence to take a hit. Sheryl shares Basara's kindness and for both goes that it is not immediately apparent, be it for different reasons.

Edit: Come to think of it, I can just imagine each of them doing better in the others role, Sheryl working with the M7 military in soundforce and Gigile, smitten by her, turning on his own kind. Basara would not have cared for Graces manipuations to his carreer, nor would he allowed him self to be used against the Varija. He just would have made Grace listen to his song and turned her in to a drooling fan girl. Heck, Ozma would have kicked Alto out of his valk and given it to Basara. I can see serious improvements here

Edited June 25, 2009 by Bri

[nexxstrait]

i resent not being labeled an irrational sheryl fanboy!!

Hey, you are an irrational sheryl fanboy!

[VFTF1]

Socially gifted she worked her way up in the idol/music business.

I wonder to what extent this is true? This is how Sheryl would like to see things (and herself) - but in reality, the Corporation (Grace et. Co.) was pulling the strings the whole time.

In fact; one could even say that what distinguishes Sheryl's music from Ranka's is that Sheryl's is kind of "manufactured heart" while Ranka's is all heart - which is something I think I opined at the very beginning of Frontier.

This doesn't mean "Sheryl's music sucks" - but I think it really goes to show how much work was put into Frontier when they sat down and composed the music for Sheryl and then for Ranka, because Sheryl's music has much more structure to it. It relies heavily on form, structure, and propriety - all of these elements are driven to perfection and it's that perfect execution which is moving, not the music itself (don't know if I'm being clear on that point).

Ranka's songs don't have so much rigor in them. They are "easy listening" - but they have tons more heart to them; something special that can't be grasped.

Sheryl is, in that sense, a lot like Myung+Sharon. She has talent, she has a bit of heart but she is also manufactured and the music can be stale sometimes - just like Sheryl.

Ranka on the other hand is truly like Minmey - her music comes from the heart. Yeah, yeah, Minmey took lessons and had to learn the ropes of the business - but all throughout she was cutesy in a way that Ranka is more than Sheryl... at least the Minmey of SDFM TV ...

Hmm...

Which makes me realize something:

Minmey SDFM TV ---> Ranka

Minmey DYRL ---> Sheryl

Amazing - but seriously - in DYRL she is way more like the aloof manufactured IDOL whereas in SDFM TV she has time to develop as the "girl next door" type...

In any event - I still say Bassara and Sheryl would fall madly in love

Pete

[Bri]

I wonder to what extent this is true? This is how Sheryl would like to see things (and herself) - but in reality, the Corporation (Grace et. Co.) was pulling the strings the whole time.

[...]

In any event - I still say Bassara and Sheryl would fall madly in love

Pete

Oh, I agree. Sheryls carreer has been supported by the coorporation, however she did put in effort on her own, which should have have made the rise to stardom easier. I am sure she is a lot more in control (even though for plot reasons Grace has massive influence) over her carreer then Minmay who never seemed to care for the bussiness side of things.

And off course would Sheryl take Bassara over the whiny kid Alto. I just wish they'd animate the dump scene.

[Roy Focker]

There is a little Basara inside Sheryl, just like there was a little Basara inside Myung.

Basara you stud!

[SchizophrenicMC]

Yeah, but Sheryl doesn't have this:

or this:

BOMBAA!!!

Credit to Mr March for the motivator.

Did I mention Basara can actually pilot a Valkyrie?

Edited June 25, 2009 by SchizophrenicMC

[Mr March]

LOL

Like much of Macross Frontier, I can see elements of Minmay, Sharon and Basara in Sheryl Nome. Which I think is pretty much the point. Frontier is very much a collection of homages from all Macross to date and then goes forward with a new story. Sheryl was her own character (and one of the strongest characterizations in Macross), but the Minmay/Sharon/Basar elements were only references. She wasn't written to be any one particular character other than Sheryl.

Edited June 25, 2009 by Mr March

[VFTF1]

From latest Hobby Japan interview with Shoji Kawamorii (translations by some guy named Shaloom from some other Macross site):

Interviewer: So how much of the former song idols is there in Sheryl?

Kawamori: Actually, we concieved of the idea that Sheryl IS Nekkii Basara after a sex change operation that was the only path to recovery after a freak guitar accident in the shower. Mylene walks in on Basara in the shower and his electric guitar is plugged in and in the ensuing comotion it fries part of him which is very important to his manhood. Then they go to Galaxy in hopes of using the technology to restore the manliness, but by the time they get there - due to fold faultes it takes very long - the manhood shrivels beyond all salvation and there is nothing left. This not only encourages Basara to become Sheryl, but it also encourages Basara-Sheryl to help Grace hunt the Vajra for fold quartz, because Basara-Sheryl blames them for the shriveling of his manhood.

Interview: Wait - no where in Frontier was there even a HINT that this kind of plot was underlying the story. Sheryl was a tool used by Grace...

Kawamori: This is because Onegi re-wrote these episodes and re-wrote my original story. Frontier as we know it today was not what I intended. But how can I fight Onegi - the author of Macross: 9000.

Interview: Macross 9000?

Kawamorii: The novel that explores how Hikaru and Misa were sucked into a parallel dimmension where they met Leon and exchanged hawaian kakis with him.

That pretty much explains it all

Pete

[dreamweaver13]

Hey, you are an irrational sheryl fanboy!

Thank you very much!!

There! d'ya all hear that? I am an irrational sheryl fanboy! oh-yeahhhh!!!

In fact; one could even say that what distinguishes Sheryl's music from Ranka's is that Sheryl's is kind of "manufactured heart" while Ranka's is all heart - which is something I think I opined at the very beginning of Frontier.

This doesn't mean "Sheryl's music sucks" - but I think it really goes to show how much work was put into Frontier when they sat down and composed the music for Sheryl and then for Ranka, because Sheryl's music has much more structure to it. It relies heavily on form, structure, and propriety - all of these elements are driven to perfection and it's that perfect execution which is moving, not the music itself (don't know if I'm being clear on that point).

Ranka's songs don't have so much rigor in them. They are "easy listening" - but they have tons more heart to them; something special that can't be grasped.

Now there you are VFTF1! i was wondering where you were. hey, someone was posing as you a while back and posting some blatantly pro-sheryl stuff.

In any event - I still say Bassara and Sheryl would fall madly in love

If sheryl falls for a guy who talks to her like a commoner, imagine how hard she'll fall for someone who ignores her completely.

She wasn't written to be any one particular character other than Sheryl.

Wow, that's sounds exactly like something Sheryl herself would say!

Edited June 25, 2009 by dreamweaver13

[ff95gj]

IMHO... There are 2 aspects to this question "Building a better Basara?"

#1 building a character upon Basara

#2 building a character better than Basara

I see no point to do #1, and I see no difficulties to do #2.

Sorry, I just don't buy Basara.

Flying amidst a battle to sing? This alone may cause other pilots to die because they don't want to friend-fire on you and then get killed themselves. Or while defending him.

He has no respect for anyone, there is only his desire to sing. He is not evil, but "singing" is above all. Some said it's his dedication to music, but I see a selfish jerk.

Sorry again. Can't help to kick dirt (again) at someone piloting with a guitar on a valk with a mouth within the Macross universe.

[Gubaba]

Flying amidst a battle to sing? This alone may cause other pilots to die because they don't want to friend-fire on you and then get killed themselves. Or while defending him.

People mention this every once in awhile, and I always say the same thing: I can't remember that happening in the show. Can you give me a reference?

Basara's enough of a jerk already without made-up charges of endangerment.

[SchizophrenicMC]

"Hey! What happened to the flying karaoke ninja?"

-Random VF-17 pilot

[ff95gj]

People mention this every once in awhile, and I always say the same thing: I can't remember that happening in the show. Can you give me a reference?

Basara's enough of a jerk already without made-up charges of endangerment.

Does he make it more dangerous for others by doing so? Definitely yes.

It does not take death tolls to say he is wrong. I don't see this charge as "made-up".

I don't understand what are you picking at...?

[Gubaba]

Does he make it more dangerous for others by doing so? Definitely yes.

It does not take death tolls to say he is wrong. I don't see this charge as "made-up".

I don't understand what are you picking at...?

Well, considering that the whole project was done with Max's blessing (and perhaps funding), you're saying the Captain increased the threat to his own men.

Based on the evidence of the show, though, it never happened. Nobody died or was injured because of Basara. No one even seemed to be terribly distracted by him, except Gamlin.

Plus, nobody needed to protect him. Both Max and Gamlin pointed out that he was an excellent battroid pilot. (His gerwalk skills left something to be desired, though, as Milia found out.)

I dunno. For all the things that bothered me about Macross 7 (and there are many), that wasn't one of them. Although I wanted to scream at him when he initially refused to help City 7 escape that star's gravity...

[Keith]

Sorry, I just don't buy Basara.

You don't have to buy Basara, Basara doesn't care if you buy him or not, he'll sing to you and rock your heart regardless.

-Guitar piloted Valkyrie is just a Valkyrie with an alternately styled control scheme, get over it.

-No one ever died in battle due to Basara's singing, if anything, he protected lives by throwing another target out there.

-No UN Spacy pilot could stop the Protodevelin, not even max with a bigass reaction missile, ONLY Basara could do it! When your enemy has a ibgger gun than you do, as well as the ability to take your biggest gun away from you and throw it right back into your backyard, no amount of fighting will save you.

-You seriously act like you've never seen any anime outisde of Macross, faces on mecha are hardly uncommon, and your stance is an ninsult to the entire super robot genre, the most awesome passionate hot blooded genre of all!!!

-You don't have to care about Basara, because Basara loves you no matter what you think, he's just that big a guy!!!

-BOMBA!

[VFTF1]

I like you Keith

Pete

Edited June 26, 2009 by VFTF1

[anime52k8]

-Guitar piloted Valkyrie is just a Valkyrie with an alternately styled control scheme, get over it.

NO GOD DAMN IT! the guitar hero controller for a flight stick was stupid and I WILL NOT GET OVER IT! EVER. He should have just been flying the plane with normal controls while playing a regular guitar at the same time because he's just that awesome. makes way more sense and is still cooler.

[azrael]

NO GOD DAMN IT! the guitar hero controller for a flight stick was stupid and I WILL NOT GET OVER IT! EVER. He should have just been flying the plane with normal controls while playing a regular guitar at the same time because he's just that awesome. makes way more sense and is still cooler.

I see someone is in Guitar Hero-withdrawal.

[Keith]

NO GOD DAMN IT! the guitar hero controller for a flight stick was stupid and I WILL NOT GET OVER IT! EVER. He should have just been flying the plane with normal controls while playing a regular guitar at the same time because he's just that awesome. makes way more sense and is still cooler.

Basara was too good a pilot to just use normal controls, if he had, the Protodevelin would have been hypnotized by his mad skilz, and sent Sivil out much sooner, resulting in a very short series. The guitar stick added extra challenge for showyness.

[Kelsain]

NO GOD DAMN IT! the guitar hero controller for a flight stick was stupid and I WILL NOT GET OVER IT! EVER. He should have just been flying the plane with normal controls while playing a regular guitar at the same time because he's just that awesome. makes way more sense and is still cooler.

Well, that's what he did in Dynamite.

[Garou Kuroryuu]

For whatever reasons, a guitar-hero flight control scheme is plain stupid.

And one of the many many reasons why I won't watch M7 ever.

Keith:

yeah, I've watched other anime, also super robot anime (love Mazinger)... but.... honestly....

THIS.IS.MACROSS!!!! Not some generic super robot show. And Macross oughta have some decency. M7 totally lost it.

Edited June 26, 2009 by Garou Kuroryuu

[Keith]

For whatever reasons, a guitar-hero flight control scheme is plain stupid.

And one of the many many reasons why I won't watch M7 ever.

Keith:

yeah, I've watched other anime, also super robot anime (love Mazinger)... but.... honestly....

THIS.IS.MACROSS!!!! Not some generic super robot show. And Macross oughta have some decency. M7 totally lost it.

What lack of decency? The only fundamental differences between Basara & Isamu are

-Isamu kills, Basara doesn't

-Basara sings, Isamu doesn't

-Isamu's a letch, Basara isn't.

You guys get too hung up on the singing in battle over fighting aspect, and totally miss teh bigger picture.

[nexxstrait]

Sorry, I just don't buy Basara.

And that's where you get it wrong. You don't have to buy Basara: you have to LISTEN TO HIS SONG!

Then again, what's wrong with piloting a fighter with a guitar? I mean, we are talking about the most awesome thing ever happened in an anime based on music. It's quintessential coolness, man!

Edited June 27, 2009 by nexxstrait