Expressions of Interest - Custom Shoulders for Yamato v.2 1/60 VF-1

[mickyg]

I'm thinking of doing some custom replacement shoulders for our v.2 VF-1 yammies. If you've got one, you know the problem: weakened plastic around the pin for the shoulder hinge. This sometimes results in a crack, sometimes just a faint stress line.

I need some feedback to get an idea of how many people are interested and how much you'd be willing to pay for it.

Here's what I'm thinking:

• CNC'd aluminium construction - possibly one piece but not necessarily
• only looking to reproduce the "trouble part" and not the second half of the hinge. To clarify, the part with the ball joint (Highlighted in red here):

  

• potentially pre-primered in white
• I'd like to include a tool to remove the old pin and insert the new one so factor that into what you'd be willing to pay
• would sell them as pairs but singles would be an option
• shipping worldwide
• these won't be cheap

I won't be able to come up with a price without some rough idea of quantity so if you're interested, please post and let me know. If you've got ideas you'd like to see integrated, feel free to put that in here too. If you think I'm insane, and that this'll never work, lemme know!

Edited June 24, 2009 by mickyg

[valhary]

in my opinion that part should be done in metal if you make it will sure that i bought al least 3 pairs for my 3 vf 1s

[miriya]

Great idea.

I would probably be in for at least one set.(depending on the price)

Edited June 24, 2009 by miriya

[eriku]

Sounds like a great idea! I'd be interested in a set if the fixes from Yamato turn out to be insufficient.

Does anyone forsee any issues with an aluminum ball moving within a plastic socket?

[EXO]

would like to know what the "won't be cheap price is first" but this sounds like a good project.

[eugimon]

I might be interested depending on how pricey it is.

[Vi-RS]

If you plan to do it in diecast or alluminium, there is really no point to paint them in the first place.

[anime52k8]

I honestly don't see the point in this. The new pins they're using seem to fix the problem fine (I've been very rough with my 1S and the shoulder is still pristine) and if you've got an older toy I'd think most of the DIY fix's already posted do the job just fine.

Really, I think this would only be worth it if they cost less than ordering a replacement arm from OD. I just don't think these are necessary, but that's just me.

[eugimon]

some people don't trust the new pins either, they won't be satisfied short of metal or an entire redesign.

[eriku]

I'm cautiously optimistic of Yamato's new pin/hinge setup. The Max 1A I bought a month or two ago is still holding up fine after several transformations and posing, none of which have been overly gentle. However it is time that will tell us weather the fix is a real fix. Many of the original shoulder hinges were fine for several months and then people started noticing cracks and breaks.

To be honest my major point of concern has switched from the shoulders to the hip bar/nosecone door area. I just don't like how that whole setup works going into and coming out of Battroid. I haven't had any problems, but every time I transform the thing I have visions of that door busting off. But that's for another thread...

[mickyg]

would like to know what the "won't be cheap price is first" but this sounds like a good project.

Good point!

I'm reluctant to guess at this stage because it depends so heavily on how many of these we make. But I can say that the part, while being small and looking simple, really isn't. All the little shapes in the piece are necessary for the various modes so we can't just get away with machining a flat square with a post/ball on the end of it. That and the CNC is set up to do big stuff, so a smaller cutter would need to be purchased. Combine that with the setup time, prototyping, test fitting, etc... and it's not going to be simple.

I'll see if I can crunch some figures for at least a rough idea of price. Really depends on quantity though.

[mickyg]

I honestly don't see the point in this. The new pins they're using seem to fix the problem fine (I've been very rough with my 1S and the shoulder is still pristine) and if you've got an older toy I'd think most of the DIY fix's already posted do the job just fine.

Really, I think this would only be worth it if they cost less than ordering a replacement arm from OD. I just don't think these are necessary, but that's just me.

This is also a good point. However, how many people out there have already purchased the first run v.2s? My rationale for this was that there are a lot of the "fragile shoulder" units out there already. Some people are happy to try the DIY fixes, but a lot of others would appreciate a packaged replacement that removed all doubt of there being any problems. That and a nice instruction guide to show them how to do it!

Regarding the metal ball in a plastic socket

I thought about this too but I don't think there'd be any real issues as long as the ball were smooth enough. Depending on how fine the machine work is, I doubt this would be much of an issue. The socket is actually constructed of 3 parts on the arm, the two white side pieces of the arm and a black plastic backing, inside the arm. I think the black part is a bit softer to allow it to "squish" instead of wear away. I think a metal ball would be right at home with this arrangement.

Regarding the nose/hip door

Another good area to look at. I can't say mine's been too troublesome. It's fiddly to get engaged for me but not an issue to pull the legs out (I use the "seperate the chest/backplate to introduce an angle to the swingbar, then rotate the legs to pop it free" manouvre and it works really well).

What does concern me though is the hinge area between the battroid's chest and back plates (those on top of the body/adjacent to neck). Mine shows evidence of cracking on those hinges. Whether this was there from the start or a result of careless transforming on my part, I'm not sure.

Here's some pics to show what I mean:

Part:

Cracks Highlighted:

Edited June 23, 2009 by mickyg

[mickyg]

If you plan to do it in diecast or alluminium, there is really no point to paint them in the first place.

Well it'd be less work for me that way if I don't have to paint. But I figure silver on an otherwise white/light grey valk won't look fantastic. Primered would at least get you part way to blending.

[Jasonc]

Seems like a decent idea, but I'd make my decision upon knowledge of the price. Don't wanna make a commitment and then realize I need a loan for them.

[mickyg]

I've done some checking into this and bearing in mind this is preliminary figuring only, mostly dependant on interest/quantity, the price could be anywhere from $30 - $40 for a pair of shoulder hinges (For simplicity, this is in US Dollars). What I haven't factored in is the cost of the tool to remove/insert the pin. This could be negligable or add another $5 depending on how complicated it ends up.

So please factor that into any expressions of interest. If there is enough interest, the lower of the price estimates is much more possible.

Thanks for the feedback so far - I was happy to see so many responses in less than 24 hours.

So, who's (still) interested?

[Vi-RS]

Well it'd be less work for me that way if I don't have to paint. But I figure silver on an otherwise white/light grey valk won't look fantastic. Primered would at least get you part way to blending.

it's simple, you are looking at part that will swing and rotate, the paint will chip off eventually and make it more ugly.

[Dangard Ace]

Not looking but a suggestion. Alot of people will not commit unless they know a price so the easiest way to get them to commit is to do the math upfront. Just say the initial run will be..... 50 units at $xx.xx price and only if those 50 are spoken for. If the demand goes up to 100 units then the price is $xxx.xx etc etc etc The next part will piss off some users but do a non-refundable deposit system. This guarantees you have the initial startup cost etc etc etc and if people flake you're not on the hook for too much.

I'm suggesting this from experience. When mechamaniac, myself and whatshisname designed the Paul Trumphour MW Exclusive Macross DVD boxset cases we were only going to do it if X amount of people were going to buy. We polled it asking people not to vote unless they were sure they were committed to the project and we did alot of mock ups and stuff. Poll got the numbers we wanted but when it came time to buying only slightly more then 1/3 of the numbers came through and for those guys I thank you. Project was almost cancelled because the final numbers weren't there but PT was cool enough to go ahead with the lesser order at the initial pricing.

[mickyg]

it's simple, you are looking at part that will swing and rotate, the paint will chip off eventually and make it more ugly.

Ah, I actually meant an etch primer - the type that chemically combines with the skin of the metal to prevent corrosion. This isn't going to be pure Al so corroding won't be a massive problem, but Al alloys tend to dull when left uncoated. Still, it's probably going to be up to the final tally on these as to whether it's cost effective to pre coat the units.

Dangard, thanks for the tip! I'm having a hard time putting a firm number/price on these because it's still so early. There are a lot of variables to consider so I can't really do a firm analysis on price/numbers until I get some feedback (even if it's sketchy) from the community on demand.

If this is something that people want to go ahead with, I'd then get a firmer price locked in (plus or minus 10% or something) and start asking for deposits. Due to the nature of this thing, it won't be worth my time or effort if there aren't enough to make. Setting up the jigs to machine the parts will be costly and time consuming so if the demand's not there, we won't ever get to that stage.

[mickyg]

I'm not sure if anyone noticed my reply a few posts up but these are looking to be somewhere between $30-$40 (US Dollars) for a pair. The price will be closer to the lower end if I can get this to over 100 pieces (50 pairs).

Apologies if people have already seen this.

[mickyg]

Alrighty then...

It at least appears this isn't something people are going to be interested in, based purely on the lack of any replies since a bit over a week ago. That's OK.

However, if people care to comment, would you mind letting me know why the lack of interest? Please feel free to post anything you feel weighs into the argument. IE, price, necessity, lack of a history/trust (talking about mine, not yours), etc... Feel free to PM me if you'd rather.

If the issues are something I can resolve, I'd obviously like to still do this.

[shadow strikers]

Sounds like a good idea, this maybe a dumb question but how do i install those hinges with the ball joints on them onto the Valk. BTW I take my time transforming my Valks that's why nothing of mine brakes.