Frontier triangle revisted...

[DeeBot]

After something like nine months since the finale, and my umpteenth run-through of the whole series, I think I've finally, finally figured out what the **** happened... at least to my personal satisfaction. (Obviously, you can never satisfy everyone on something like this.)

Anyway, before someone jumps in with partisan commentary, let me lay out my thesis first:

The final episode resolves the triangle conflict... between Sheryl and Ranka.

Alto? Yeah, he's still pretty much as indecisive as ever. The final scene teases us with the idea that, well, maybe he's going to choose in just one more second, but after repeated viewing, I think it's at most symbolic, at worst a troll, and that any resolution of the love triangle would have taken multiple episodes-worth of time to fully play out--weeks, months, even years. Just look at how long the SDFM triangle took to play out (years in-universe), and in the final scenes, Sheryl and Ranka seem to be preparing for an extended courtship.

So in short, while I think he's become much more open and accepting about his romantic feelings (represented by him finally acknowledging that he can't be such a loner), he's still just as undecided about who, if anyone, he should choose. He's no longer acting clueless, but the decision is still as hard as ever.

That elephant temporarily disposed of, back to what I find intriguing.

The one thing that's always really struck (and puzzled) me about the Frontier triangle is how well Sheryl and Ranka get along--even admire each other. (Something I wish their partisans would emulate.)

Ranka's always been a big fan of Sheryl's, of course, and Sheryl takes an immediate liking to Ranka that only grows over time. They never seem jealous of each other's successes.

True, Ranka initially seems stymied by Sheryl's omnipresence (such as when her variety show appearance got canceled), but she never blames Sheryl (quite correctly) of any intentional malice. (Besides, Leon seems to have his fingers all over this stuff.)

And sure, Sheryl at one point seems distraught over why her voice can't reach the Vajra, while Ranka's can--but her ire is directed at her personal failing, not at Ranka. It's her inability to "I'm Sheryl Nome!" her way to reaching the Vajra that really bothers her--I get the feeling at times that, idol though she may be, there's also a little Basara in there. She really is quite passionate about being a singer, and being a singer in the Macross universe really means something. Singers in the Macross universe are more important than the newest and shiniest weapons--they're the keepers of culture, the most powerful force in the universe.

So their professional rivalry doesn't seem to be any great source of conflict--they like each other personally, and there's no reason to believe why they can't both be successful. Outside factors (*cough* Grace *cough*) seem to be a bigger influence on their professional fortunes than direct competition. Heck, maybe they'll decide to form a duet and crush all comers.

Which just leaves... the love triangle. My hypothesis: Sheryl and Ranka don't realize there's a love triangle until the very end. They get to be close runner-ups in the cluelessness prize to Alto.

"Preposterous!" I can already hear you saying. Well, yes, the love triangle is obvious to us, pretty much from the very beginning, but is it that obvious to them? I'd argue no.

Think about all those times Ranka was on the verge of asking Sheryl or Alto about the nature of their relationship, and conveniently got interrupted. Think about all those times Sheryl refuses to admit she has any special feelings for Alto, or even seems to be taken by surprise by particularly strong ones. Think about how little (at least intentional) sabotage goes on between the two. Think about how near the end, each is convinced that Alto is really in love with the other one.

These aren't the behaviors of women vigorously pursuing victory over a rival in a contest of the heart. They're the acts of women who probably believe they've already lost, or never had a chance, or are desperately afraid to take the risk, who love almost in spite of themselves. I'm pretty sure if Ranka had known for sure that Sheryl and Alto were an item, she would have stopped pursuing him. Likewise, I get the impression Sheryl doesn't want to come between Ranka and Alto--at first, she doesn't even think she'll see them again, but will be whisked off back to Galaxy--but she can't control her own heart: What begins as innocent flirtation gets out of her control.

The triangle is missing a side.

The real conflict, then, is that they both like Alto romantically, but they also both like each other as friends. What they end up struggling with is how to reconcile those two seemingly-contradictory relationships.

The answer that comes in the final episode? It's not as much of a contradiction as it seems.

By the time they reach the final few scenes, all three have become incredibly close, after sharing so much hardship together. When the two women simultaneously call out to Alto, they both look momentarily guilty, feeling ashamed to be in love with someone her close friend is also in love with.

And then, very classily, they turn to each other and agree that it's OK to have a friendly rivalry. Just because they're now competitors in both song and love doesn't mean they have to give up being friends. Whoever prevails in the end, their friendship will survive that.

And so ultimately, it doesn't really matter who Alto chooses. Nobody loses. Not really. All three will always be close to each other. It's their three-way friendship that's truly important, not the romantic conflict. Roll credits.

Edited June 21, 2009 by DeeBot

[dreamweaver13]

Which just leaves... the love triangle. My hypothesis: Sheryl and Ranka don't realize there's a love triangle until the very end. They get to be close runner-ups in the cluelessness prize to Alto.

"Preposterous!" I can already hear you saying. Well, yes, the love triangle is obvious to us, pretty much from the very beginning, but is it that obvious to them? I'd argue no.

Think about all those times Ranka was on the verge of asking Sheryl or Alto about the nature of their relationship, and conveniently got interrupted. Think about all those times Sheryl refuses to admit she has any special feelings for Alto, or even seems to be taken by surprise by particularly strong ones. Think about how little (at least intentional) sabotage goes on between the two. Think about how near the end, each is convinced that Alto is really in love with the other one.

These aren't the behaviors of women vigorously pursuing victory over a rival in a contest of the heart. They're the acts of women who probably believe they've already lost, or never had a chance, or are desperately afraid to take the risk, who love almost in spite of themselves. I'm pretty sure if Ranka had known for sure that Sheryl and Alto were an item, she would have stopped pursuing him. Likewise, I get the impression Sheryl doesn't want to come between Ranka and Alto--at first, she doesn't even think she'll see them again, but will be whisked off back to Galaxy--but she can't control her own heart: What begins as innocent flirtation gets out of her control.

The triangle is missing a side.

first off, i like how you discussed the relationship between Sheryl and Ranka. While you did point out the points in the series where they seemed to grow wary of each other, i think you're right in saying that most of the anguish was not against each other. in that sense, Sheryl and Ranka seemed to genuinely like each other, without (or very minimal) hints of personal jealousy. i too never got the impression that they were directly and consciously competing with each other (well, except for ep15, of course) .

But to say that they aren't aware of the triangle? hmm... i can't see that. ep 15 showed that both Sheryl and Ranka were aware of a competition going on. it was very blatant, actually. Ranka would thank alto for saving her. Sheryl, not to be defeated, likewise thanks alto for saving her life numerous times. sheryl mentions the date at the folmo mall, ranka mentions the paper plane. sheryl starts to sing along to ranka's song (which, by the way, was originally sheryl's song), and ranka draws some strength to sing along as well. battle lines were clearly being drawn already, albeit in a seemingly friendly and non-malicious way. if anything else, ranka (or sheryl) was even making a triangle sign with her hands.

when sheryl asked alto to come with her to look for her earring ("Star Date"), she already teased that something was going on between Alto and Ranka. In the same episode, ranka saw that sheryl and alto were on a date. In episode 10, both Sheryl and Ranka's behaviors were, in part, influenced by what the other was doing. Nanase constantly reminds Ranka that sheryl and alto are getting too close.

In summary, they know something is going on between the other two characters. but since as far as they know, there's no relationship yet, they're just doing what they can to get closer to the person they like. for ranka, it's inviting alto to celebrate her birthday. for sheryl, it's picking him for guard detail. i think they're quite aware that there's someone else that can take alto's attention, but they're not necessarily undermining the other one. they're just... for lack of a better word, just doing what they can to be with alto.

well, at least until the last episode. looks like they finally came clean to each other that they're both going after the same guy. and thus, they said that "this is where it begins."

Edited June 22, 2009 by dreamweaver13

[Killer Robot]

In summary, they know something is going on between the other two characters. but since as far as they know, there's no relationship yet, they're just doing what they can to get closer to the person they like. for ranka, it's inviting alto to celebrate her birthday. for sheryl, it's picking him for guard detail. i think they're quite aware that there's someone else that can take alto's attention, but they're not necessarily undermining the other one. they're just... for lack of a better word, just doing what they can to be with alto.

When Sheryl invited Alto with her for his birthday, she knew full well that Ranka was asking him and that it was important to her, and the responded by making an offer that she knew he couldn't turn down. I don't think there was any pointed cruelty to Ranka in the act, and she did offer because she knew how much Alto wanted a chance to fly in a real sky, but there's no question she saw competition and decided to cut in hard and put an end to it. On the other hand, one could even argue she thought it would be less painful than to let Ranka get more caught up with the man she wanted before they competed for him - with what happened after that it's hard to know how things would have gone otherwise.

That said, I couldn't agree more. The triangle in Frontier was about two girls both after the same guy, but it was also about their friendship with each other, and their friendships with him quite apart from the romantic angle. It's not like SDFM where Minmay and Misa barely knew each other, and further even Alto's platonic friendships with the girls seemed to be more played upon than Hikaru's. It was a story about three friends with romantic entanglements in the middle of a war, and the resolution in the end was that the three and their friendship survived the attempts of both romance and war to put an end to it. Sure, who Alto ends up with in the end isn't resolved, but the ending marks the point past which Alto can choose one or the other without the three breaking apart. Both because they are all alive and safe, and because they've all grown a lot since the start of the series.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Sure, who Alto ends up with in the end isn't resolved, but the ending marks the point past which Alto can choose one or the other without the three breaking apart. Both because they are all alive and safe, and because they've all grown a lot since the start of the series.

Or he can be a Mormon and choose BOTH!

Very well thought-out, Dee. It really makes sense that way.

Whoever wrote the story for this one, you're not completely useless after all! (Was it SK? I can't keep up with who wrote what)

[Gubaba]

Whoever wrote the story for this one, you're not completely useless after all! (Was it SK? I can't keep up with who wrote what)

All the scriptwriting for Frontier is credited to Hiroyuki Yoshino.

Kawamori did the storyboards, though.

[VFTF1]

Really? I heard somewhere that this Ohnogi guy wrote the script - you know; the same guy who wrote Misa Hayese: Intimate Thoughts novel, as well as having personally done the art work for the scene in DYRL where Hikaru confesses his love to Misa. Didn't you know?

Pete

[Gubaba]

Really? I heard somewhere that this Ohnogi guy wrote the script - you know; the same guy who wrote Misa Hayese: Intimate Thoughts novel, as well as having personally done the art work for the scene in DYRL where Hikaru confesses his love to Misa. Didn't you know?

Pete

Yeah, I heard that somewhere too. And it's gotta be true...IT WAS ON THE INTERNET!

[DeeBot]

In summary, they know something is going on between the other two characters. but since as far as they know, there's no relationship yet, they're just doing what they can to get closer to the person they like. for ranka, it's inviting alto to celebrate her birthday. for sheryl, it's picking him for guard detail. i think they're quite aware that there's someone else that can take alto's attention, but they're not necessarily undermining the other one. they're just... for lack of a better word, just doing what they can to be with alto.

Yeah, I wasn't really happy with how that particular point came out, although I'm pleased the most important part (about the key contributions made by Ohnogi, naturally--no, I'm talking about the friendship angle) doesn't seem very controversial.

I'm pretty busy these days, so I either have to get my thoughts down as quickly as I can, or not do it at all. Had to go with what I had, basically.

I still don't think either one is fully aware of how deep the other's feelings go, though. They're certainly aware that they're not the only ones seeking Alto's attention, but it's really hard to tell how serious the threat is. I think most of the blame for this can be put on Alto--he just so unreadable, especially when it comes to romantic matters. You can give him a big kiss on the lips, and he'll just sorta look at you funny until you make up some lame excuse to salvage your pride. (Ahem.)

With that sort of reaction, I think you could easily tell yourself that there's nothing going on with the other girl. Or equally, that he's completely uninterested in you. Plenty of girls swoon over <insert random hunky male idol here>, but that doesn't mean they're part of a love triangle, if you get my drift.

I just get the impression that they spend a lot more time trying to get Alto's attention at all, rather than competing with each other. Maybe if Alto were a little more responsive, there'd be more to fight over. The girls do seem to really pour it on whenever they manage to crack his stoic facade.

When Sheryl invited Alto with her for his birthday, she knew full well that Ranka was asking him and that it was important to her, and the responded by making an offer that she knew he couldn't turn down. I don't think there was any pointed cruelty to Ranka in the act, and she did offer because she knew how much Alto wanted a chance to fly in a real sky, but there's no question she saw competition and decided to cut in hard and put an end to it. On the other hand, one could even argue she thought it would be less painful than to let Ranka get more caught up with the man she wanted before they competed for him - with what happened after that it's hard to know how things would have gone otherwise.

First off, thanks for expanding on my point, KR. Some good insights there; I liked how you tied Alto's friendships with the girls into an overall picture of a friendship triangle.

Now then, I expected this particular incident to come up. I've never really bought into the whole idea that Sheryl did it purposefully to stymie Ranka, which if true, would have been a pretty jerky thing to do. But I think it's certainly open to debate.

Just from the way I read the characters, Sheryl always comes off as more impulsive and reckless than calculating (she has Grace for that, after all). She pretty much never manages to make a plan that doesn't backfire on her in some way (although sometimes it backfires pleasantly). She makes her way through life by vigorously pressing forward without looking back or ahead. She's very much a person who lives in the moment.

Looking at the way the events played out, Sheryl was already feeling under the weather at the time. She instantly perceives that the ticket Ranka secures is for Alto, but she really doesn't seem to care that much about it. I'm not sure if this is because she was feeling ill, putting up a front, or just was feeling ill-disposed towards Alto at the time (I personally lean towards a mix of the first and last), but she doesn't do anything to discourage Ranka from her plans.

(At this point, Ranka is wondering about Sheryl's attitude towards Alto, and is about to ask her when Sheryl faints. The Queen has an awful lot of dramatically-timed fainting spells, but I guess you can't blame her for the virus and Plotonium infusions.)

Later, when Sheryl thinks of her great idea, all she wants to do is meet Alto in their special place, and spring it on him in her usual exuberant way. Once again, she's let herself get carried away, without really thinking about the consequences. Of course, there's never a scene where she goes "Oops, I totally cut Ranka off!" or "Mwahaha, take that, little girl!", but I think that just tends to lend credence to the whole idea that it never crossed her mind.

It's hard to believe anyone can really make it through life with that little forethought, but she is Sheryl Nome.

Edited June 24, 2009 by DeeBot

[-Snowblind-]

Looking at the way the events played out, Sheryl was already feeling under the weather at the time. She instantly perceives that the ticket Ranka secures is for Alto, but she really doesn't seem to care that much about it. I'm not sure if this is because she was feeling ill, putting up a front, or just was feeling ill-disposed towards Alto at the time (I personally lean towards a mix of the first and last), but she doesn't do anything to discourage Ranka from her plans.

(At this point, Ranka is wondering about Sheryl's attitude towards Alto, and is about to ask her when Sheryl faints. The Queen has an awful lot of dramatically-timed fainting spells, but I guess you can't blame her for the virus and Plotonium infusions.)

Later, when Sheryl thinks of her great idea, all she wants to do is meet Alto in their special place, and spring it on him in her usual exuberant way. Once again, she's let herself get carried away, without really thinking about the consequences. Of course, there's never a scene where she goes "Oops, I totally cut Ranka off!" or "Mwahaha, take that, little girl!", but I think that just tends to lend credence to the whole idea that it never crossed her mind.

It's hard to believe anyone can really make it through life with that little forethought, but she is Sheryl Nome.

I went back and watched episode 11 again (or the relevant bits of it, anyway). I don't see how Sheryl couldn't have known, impulsively or not, that she was stepping on Ranka's toes. It's simple association... she knows that Ranka has a gift for Alto (she's even the one to point out that it's a birthday present), and later on she proudly presents her counter present. While impulsive, I certainly don't think that she's that forgetful, and she's definitely not dim.

[dreamweaver13]

I went back and watched episode 11 again (or the relevant bits of it, anyway). I don't see how Sheryl couldn't have known, impulsively or not, that she was stepping on Ranka's toes. It's simple association... she knows that Ranka has a gift for Alto (she's even the one to point out that it's a birthday present), and later on she proudly presents her counter present. While impulsive, I certainly don't think that she's that forgetful, and she's definitely not dim.

I have always seen sheryl's actions the way Deebot explained it: she just got excited about this wonderful idea for her gift for alto, and she completely ignored that ranka was planning to invite alto to her concert. sheryl's quite impulsive and rarely backs down from a course of action once she decides on it. sheryl's not the type to change her mind just because of the possibility that ranka will follow through with her plan to invite alto. or even with the possibility that ranka likes alto. i'm sure it's in the back of her mind, somehow, but i don't think it would dictate her actions at all.

you're saying she had to have known ranka was inviting alto to the concert, and you're right. all i'm saying is that i don't think that was the reason that sheryl asked alto to go with her. i don't think it was a case of sheryl coming up with a plan to destroy ranka and alto's date. in that sense, i don't think it was a "counter present". rather, she just had a brilliant idea for a gift and acted on it. ranka was just collateral damage.

[Gubaba]

I have always seen sheryl's actions the way Deebot explained it: she just got excited about this wonderful idea for her gift for alto, and she completely ignored that ranka was planning to invite alto to her concert. sheryl's quite impulsive and rarely backs down from a course of action once she decides on it. sheryl's not the type to change her mind just because of the possibility that ranka will follow through with her plan to invite alto. or even with the possibility that ranka likes alto. i'm sure it's in the back of her mind, somehow, but i don't think it would dictate her actions at all.

you're saying she had to have known ranka was inviting alto to the concert, and you're right. all i'm saying is that i don't think that was the reason that sheryl asked alto to go with her. i don't think it was a case of sheryl coming up with a plan to destroy ranka and alto's date. in that sense, i don't think it was a "counter present". rather, she just had a brilliant idea for a gift and acted on it. ranka was just collateral damage.

I'd agree with that. Sheryl's determined, but she's not malicious.

And I think that at that point in the story, she doesn't have as much empathy for others as she does later on in the series. I'm sure Ranka and her giftnever crossed Sheryl's mind.

[Bri]

That's one of the mysteries of Frontier. There is this whole sempai/sister dynamic between Sheryl and Ranka. But they don't have an established shared past unlike the similar Roy/Hikaru relationship. There is still the possibility of them having met at a younger age with Ranshe Lee and Mao Nome worked together, but that has never been touched upon by the writers.

[DeeBot]

With regards to the whole birthday gift incident: I think you can legitimately read it in different ways. It really depends on your read of the characters, at that particular point of the story. There probably isn't much use arguing it too much, there just isn't enough evidence to firmly say one way or another.

That's one of the mysteries of Frontier. There is this whole sempai/sister dynamic between Sheryl and Ranka. But they don't have an established shared past unlike the similar Roy/Hikaru relationship. There is still the possibility of them having met at a younger age with Ranshe Lee and Mao Nome worked together, but that has never been touched upon by the writers.

I agree that it's a possibility, but as you said, it's never really hinted at. There's never a time where Ranka or Sheryl seem to go, "Oh, hey! We totally knew each other when we were two." I think it's likely that Sheryl's parents kept her on Galaxy, rather than taking her out to some research fleet that they had no business being other than to visit Mao. (And I'm not sure how likely that was.)

I have been really intrigued by this whole mentor dynamic you mentioned, though, and I had some recent thoughts on that point, too. I think Ranka might have reminded Sheryl a lot of herself at an early stage of her career (strange as it sounds to claim that Ranka is anything like Sheryl), which is why Sheryl goes out of her way to encourage her.

In particular, I think back to the Folmo Mall incident, where Ranka makes her debut. Near the end, Sheryl is looking on approvingly, then gets her determined face and mutters something along the lines of, "They make it all by themselves."

I always found that moment hard to read. Was Sheryl recognizing a competitive threat from Ranka, and steeling herself to stay on top? Honestly, I think no. Again, Sheryl was planning on leaving for Galaxy again, and it doesn't really jive with the dialogue anyway.

Instead, I think Sheryl was thinking back to her own rise to stardom. She takes a lot of pride in her self-image of being a self-made woman. While she offers Ranka advice and help, she mostly urges Ranka to make it on her own, by her own efforts.

(I also had the interesting thought that perhaps Sheryl's initial launch to stardom came in a Miss Macross competition, which would be why she encourages Ranka to go down that route. Of course, I find it hard to believe that Sheryl would have lost such a competition... it's equally likely she never participated, though, and just rose to the top of the charts over time. Or she wouldn't have been suited to the interview parts of such a competition. I can just imagine her chewing out some poor judge with less than beauty pageant decorum...)

Of course, we find out later that Grace was instrumental in manufacturing Sheryl's success, so this raises some interesting questions about whether her expression was simply reflecting back on the hard road she had to her current success, or whether she's always harbored some doubts about the legitimacy of her success. (She just seems so certain all the time, though... I don't know if she really had any doubts. But maybe she's compensating. That sounds almost probable, actually, although maybe she'd just be compensating for her childhood misery.)

What I think is really intriguing about all this is how the whole "you can make it on your own!" philosophy is basically rejected by the overall arc of the story. By the end, all three main characters have realized that no, you can't. When Sheryl reboots her career, she certainly doesn't try to do it alone again--she seems quite accepting of Elmo's help, for example. Ranka's attempt to end the war by herself doesn't work--despite feeling personally responsible, it's not a problem she can solve alone. At the climax, Alto shouts out something along the lines of, "Because we're alone... we love!" I take this to be a message that because humans are individuals, we need the support of other human beings all the more.

Edited June 24, 2009 by DeeBot

[Killer Robot]

What colored my take on the birthday incident was this post from Sheryl's blog back when I read through the translations. Which is probably a step down from going by a drama CD, I know, but it was too cool a promotion not to follow and gave some great windows on the character otherwise, so it stuck with me.

Here's the latest Sheryl blog entry.

2008-06-17

Title: If only this were a song...

I'm not very good at bargaining.

But I'm even worse at taking things as they stand.

That's why I've thought up a somewhat unfair plan that may change the thought process.

Really, if only this were a song, I would be able to let them know straight out,

right...?

Sheryl

July 23, 2059

July 23, 2059 makes that the posting the day after the one where she announced she was going to Gallia 4. On my first reading way back I thought her admission of an "unfair plan" was how it shut out Ranka so much at such a poor moment that couldn't be helped, but I suppose on re-reading it works as well for just how unfair an offer it is to give Alto. Sheryl's strict "never name names" policy makes reading some of her blog careful guesswork. Also, she writes like a crazy woman. As a more relevant note, she spoke quite positively of Ranka a couple times along the way too, and those times quite clear(if not by name) about her identity. She was very stricken by the girl's energy and saw a star in the making.

[Bri]

[...]

What I think is really intriguing about all this is how the whole "you can make it on your own!" philosophy is basically rejected by the overall arc of the story. By the end, all three main characters have realized that no, you can't. When Sheryl reboots her career, she certainly doesn't try to do it alone again--she seems quite accepting of Elmo's help, for example. Ranka's attempt to end the war by herself doesn't work--despite feeling personally responsible, it's not a problem she can solve alone. At the climax, Alto shouts out something along the lines of, "Because we're alone... we love!" I take this to be a message that because humans are individuals, we need the support of other human beings all the more.

That's basically the main theme of Frontier. Even the Vajira are alone and need another hive every few million years or so.

[DeeBot]

That's basically the main theme of Frontier. Even the Vajira are alone and need another hive every few million years or so.

See, and I always thought it was just about robot-airplanes IN SPACE blowing stuff up.

[SchizophrenicMC]

See, and I always thought it was just about robot-airplanes IN SPACE blowing stuff up.

Well, see, that's what separates US from the Gundam fanatics.

We have a meaningful plot!

I just realized something. This Love Triangle isn't a Triangle, but a crazy, messed-up other polygon of some sort.

This clearly visualizes that Alto wants Sheryl, who is reciprocative, Brera wants his sister in some screwed-up Deep Southern American way, and Ranka wants Alto, but will settle for Sheryl...

Screw it. I like the SDFM triangle more. It's actually Triangular.

Hell, even Mac+'s was a triangle... Sort of. I mean, there are 3 Sharon Apples... 4, if you count the actual computer. 5, if you count the SDF-1.