MickyG's (Slow) VF-25G Build

[mickyg]

Not heaps to report - I did manage to get a gloss clear coat on the non-super parts. I didn't manage to get the pressure right on the airbrush (not sure how, it's been fine before) so the finish isn't consistent, with some orange peal on some parts but not on others. I'm not overly concerned though, it's not as bad as efforts in the past.

I still have a few decals to apply so this was in prep for that. I'll either go one more gloss coat and follow up with a satin (semi-gloss) or just go satin after the decals. I guess it depends on how motivated I am when I get to that point.

Edited May 9, 2010 by mickyg

[Maxtype]

Looks good,Micky.

I'd say you've hit a major milestone on this kit. It's great to see it coming along.

Mods, would you sticky this please? MickyG's thread is a great example of how to tackle a VF-25.

[mickyg]

You're far too kind! Mods, if you actually considered this - could you also find some way to make it look like I've done all this in a month, rather than a year?

In all seriousness, I think the stuff of stickies is what you currently see in this section - there's no way I'm up to that level yet! Maybe a sticky for "how to build a Bandai VF-25 kit very slowly, think of all kinds of ways to make it perfect, lose patience with ever actually doing any of those things, then cut corners wherever possible to make it look 'good enough' on a work desk" I'd be OK with that.

Edited May 9, 2010 by mickyg

[mickyg]

New board version - new look (for now)!

I've been working on decals the last few days. Got the tail SMS logos done yesterday and the cockpit SMS and rescue markers done today. Both were a pain but the tails were much harder due to being out of practice! I also made the mistake of cutting the carrier film off the SMS logo for one tail, but not leaving anything to grab onto. Since the water I was using was very hot, the decal curled up and off the paper in a second! I had a very difficult time fetching it and applying it. Amazingly, it went on but I managed to tear one small section of the black outline. It's not terribly obvious but I learned a valuable lesson - always leave something on the decal to hold onto. If you must cut all the clear off, just cut through the clear only in one section, leaving a paper "finger" to hold onto. Move the decal into position and usually the clear cut section will stay behind and the decal will be applied. It helps if your tweezers are actually grabbing the clear part you don't want applied, too.

I used that approach today and the results were much better! However, I had a very hard time getting the decals to pull down into the fuselage panel lines. I'm still not totally satisfied with how they went and will probably cut through them, prior to weathering and clear coating the final time.

Pics later today...

[Chronocidal]

I'm almost thinking of documenting my current build.. it's not that I've done anything horribly fancy, but I'm finding a bunch of little tweaks to apply that are having some interesting effects on the way it looks. Sometimes, small things that make a big difference are easy to overlook, which is what these longer build-ups are great for.

For instance, the nose sensor windows look much better if you cut off the pegs and sand it smooth, or, I think it's actually easier to paint Alto's head stripes on than use the decals, as long as you do a little sanding on the head pieces... stuff like that.

I just hope on my later builds I have the guts to do as much work as you've done here. I'm just scared to experiment too much.. although, I might buy myself another Alto in case this one dies a horrible hand-painted death.

[mickyg]

Tweaks are a great reason to document! And for slow builds like mine, it's also a great way to remember how you did what.

I wish I'd thought to cut the sensor pegs. Now that it's together, I can't bear to take it apart though. Oh well...

I didn't take pictures today but here are the ones from yesterday (first shows tiny little tear that folded under, right in the middle of the pic, the second is a general, flash blown shot to show the decals about 5 minutes after they were applied, the final is a less blown out shot to show colour):

Ignore the fingerprints, they'll rub off with a bit of polishing compound.

[mickyg]

Here's the stuff I did yesterday:

Left side, showing some of the panel line sinking (I think this side is better than the next):

Right side - this didn't sink as well as the other:

Please complete meeeeeee!

[wm cheng]

Great work so far! I'm glad you're still sticking to it (I'm so slow now that its pretty much at a standstill until I can find some time!).

A tip for getting the decals to conform is that I usually get a wet paper towel and fold it a few times so there's some thickness to it and I press it over the decal down onto the fuselage so the "cushiness" of the towel and finger presses/stretches the decal into the panel lines. Once that's in there, I often dab some MicroSOL on it to let it conform even more (although it didn't work with this type of decal that Bandai is using - it works for everything else though). Lastly, when its mostly dry, I slice it with a ultra sharp exacto knife so that it separates on either side of the panel line (gives a nice painted on effect) and dab it again with MicroSOL.

Keep going!

[mickyg]

Great advice! I was planning to cut it but thought I'd wait till it was dry, then micro-sol it. It's worked in the past to soften the decal up a touch (enough to get it to sit down). Doing it before it's completely dry is probably much better though.

My technique if you can call it that is as follows:

• cut out as much of the clear film as possible from the decal (not possible with complex shapes - well, not worth it to me, at least)
  
• dip it in hot to warm water for as long as it takes for the decal to change colour and the bubbles to stop coming out (usually 6 or 7 seconds with hot and longer for warm).
  
• sometimes let it sit on a paper towel, mostly just straight on though
  
• dab a bit of water on the part with a small brush
  
• hold decal with sharp tweezers and use said brush to slide decal into position
  
• dab on some Mr Mark Setter and let it soak in for a few seconds until it isn't all beaded up on the surface
  
• reposition the decal with my brush
  
• when it's in place, dab away any excess setting solution
  
• if it's not sitting down into the recesses, apply a bit of Mr Mark Softer and "push" the decal into the recesses with my damp brush
  

As long as I make sure the softening solution doesn't stay wet on the decal (sitting on top and not actually soaking in) it doesn't damage the decal. Let it sit more than 20-30 seconds with it looking wet though, and you're in for a ruined decal! So I always let it sit for 10 seconds or slightly more, then soak up the excess with a damp paint brush.

[mickyg]

Got 4 decals on today. Whoo hoo!

Can you find them?

[cool8or]

Great job! Looks perfect for me.

I hope to have one of these in the near future...

[wm cheng]

Funny, I found that the MicroSOL had absolutely no effect on these Bandai decals (I hate them!)

[mickyg]

It's Mr Mark Softer (and Setter). I don't know that it's much different to the Microscale products but it at least seems to soften the decals somewhat. So in that regard, I guess it must be a little different. I've got no idea how it's going to go with my cartograph decals on the Hasegawa VF-1D I plan to build at some point (or any of the other regular Hasegawa decals on my other kits).

[wm cheng]

So the Mr. Mark Softer works on the Bandai stuff? The Microscale stuff works on everything I've ever used before EXCEPT these Bandai decals - it definitely works on the Hasegawa stuff. I guess I'll have to try to track down some of this Mr. Mark Softer stuff for the next VF-25 build. Only one down and 3 more to go! ARGH!!

[Lolicon]

I can tell what decals were added!

When it comes to nightmarish decals on the Frontier models, the VF-27 takes the cake, in annoyance factor and sheer quantity. I've built two of them, and because of that I've had to take a break from any modeling... for the next several months. The worst decals were the canopy.

I've found that Mr. Mark Softer works fairly well on Bandai's decals, so long as you use a brush to spread out the liquid and keep it from beading up until it's absorbed by the decal. If you let it bead up it'll often leave an ugly pock mark on the decal (though usually not noticeable unless you're looking really closely).

Though I trimmed the excess film on the majority of the 27's decals, I found that the Mark Softer will actually melt the carrier film itself but leave the pigment/markings intact, which is good for large solid decals, but death for all the tiny little white markings that are found all over. Since I'm softly brushing to prevent beads, I end up sloughing off the carrier film. I use as little Mark Softer as possible, but it still beads up and I don't dare try to soak it up for fear of touching and messing up the decal. It really does absorb so slowly on Bandai's decals.

There were also a couple of instances where in order to get a decal to fit into a recess, I would use the tip of my knife to put in a tiny slash or puncture; this would allow me to press down and squeeze out any liquid more easily. The puncture would be invisible.

I generally don't use any water at all except the water that adheres to the decal when I pull it out of the water dish. I just put a small amount of Mark Setter where the decal will go, and then just lay the decal over it and adjust as needed. If the decal is being particularly troublesome, then I may have to add a drop or two to continue adjustments (since Mark Setter actually does what it says!). Something about the Mark Setter just pulls the decal into place better for me. It's a slip and slide game when I use water.

Not particularly professional, but it's worked for me so far.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Lolicon

[Lolicon]

So the Mr. Mark Softer works on the Bandai stuff? The Microscale stuff works on everything I've ever used before EXCEPT these Bandai decals - it definitely works on the Hasegawa stuff. I guess I'll have to try to track down some of this Mr. Mark Softer stuff for the next VF-25 build. Only one down and 3 more to go! ARGH!!

Only 3 more? Not going to build anything outside of the SMS Skull Squadron?

[mickyg]

I believe this is indicative of the situation

I've built two of them, and because of that I've had to take a break from any modeling... for the next several months.

[mickyg]

So the Mr. Mark Softer works on the Bandai stuff? The Microscale stuff works on everything I've ever used before EXCEPT these Bandai decals - it definitely works on the Hasegawa stuff. I guess I'll have to try to track down some of this Mr. Mark Softer stuff for the next VF-25 build. Only one down and 3 more to go! ARGH!!

What Lolicon said.

Although, I haven't had as much of an issue with the solution beading up on the surface. I have experienced the "melted carrier film" feature though. It's good if you can plan for it. Not so great when it disolves and leaves this gooey mess around the decal though!

Aren't GSI (Mr Hobby products) also the makers of Gundam paints, therefore the recommended supplies for all of Bandai's kits? Surely they wouldn't have made the decals with Mr Mark products in mind, would they?

[mickyg]

More decals today. I really hate the verniers but somehow these went on way easier than the ones for the legs. I did the typical approach I use for decaling (cut it out, soak it for a few seconds in hot water, apply with a soft brush, use more water if it's wanting to stick too soon, etc...) but this time I dabbed down a bit of Mr Mark Setter first, got the decal into position, then applied a small amount of Mr Mark Softer, let it sit for about 10 seconds, then soaked up the excess with a damp brush. Seems to have worked OK (although you can't tell from the photos). The rest of the decals were pretty straight forward.

Pics:

[Chronocidal]

Now those turned out nice! They pretty much look painted on.

[mickyg]

Thanks man. The photos are pretty kind though. There's some carrier film to be seen on the round decals (can't cut that off with my shaky hands!) but it should disappear after the next clear coat.

[mickyg]

Got the last 4 decals on yesterday!!! That leaves maybe a few for the super parts (though I can't remember which, off the top of my head). Next is another clearcoat (think I'll go another light gloss coat), followed by a more semi-gloss final coat.

I got to use more of my custom Jasmine Model decals on these last ones. I don't like the included Bandai ones, not because of the quality (that's well established) but because of their size and shape. The Jasmine ones are much longer, and to my eye, look more accurate to the anime.

Bandai decals:

What I did yesterday (intake marking and crotch grey piece):

I still have the wing tip white areas to do (underside only) so these were masked off today. Don't know why I don't use newspaper more often. Saves me using up lots of tape!

[mickyg]

Nothing like tiny updates...

Painted the white tips. Twice. Yeah, the first time went on not so smooth so I figured I'd spray some of the same colour, thinned with windex. Bad move. Blotchy mess. Actually it looked fine until it dried. Anyway, wiped off the white with a paper towel dampened in windex. Worked fine!

Boring....

Whoo hoo!

And for the first time, I managed to tear a decal with masking tape. Tamiya masking tape, no less! And this, after I sprayed it with a clear coat. I thought the clear coat was meant to protect the decals. Oh well, nothing I can't touch up with a brush.

[mickyg]

I mentioned in a previous thread about airbrushes, that I'd post up some pics of why I'm frustrated with mine. I forgot all about doing that. So here's that, plus some progress I made yesterday and today.

This was mostly due to some tape marks after masking that little white part on the wingtip (underside). I resprayed it with clear gloss and thought I had good coverage. Turns out I didn't. Not sure why this ended up so bad either, as previous coats, while orange peely in texture, certainly wheren't this bad. Note: this settled down a bit over the next few days. Almost like that coat softened before completely hardening.

I later rubbed it down with some Tamiya polishing compound (fine type) and an old T-shirt. That helped a bit and with the final semi-gloss coat, will hopefully hide it enough to be acceptable.

Yesterday did above mentioned polishing (came up very smoot on the stabilisers, no idea why that worked when the rest is so bumpy) and masked the jewel "sensors" on the nose, as I want them to stay glossy:

You start by laying a piece of tape over the part, then using a toothpick, carefully "draw" with the pointed tip around the shape, making sure you press down hard enough to get the tape to completely conform. Then just cut the outside with a sharp hobby knife.

Today, I decided I wasn't happy with the previous wash I applied to the white parts (or the blue, for that matter). So I went over it again with a lighter colour. I also found I hadn't washed the left wing and wing glove - at all! Oops. So I went over them with a slightly different approach. Which meant I had to redo the other side too. I don't know how this dark grey, vs black wash is going to look. It looks a bit iffy at this point and a bit lighter than I'd planned. The white parts though, they look great. I used a white oil, with a tiny amount of the grey for the rest. So it's a very light grey but looks pretty dark against the pure white parts.

[mickyg]

Finally got my Iwata HP-C Plus yesterday! Whoo hoo! After spending the better part of the morning trying to find a solution for a hose, I finally made something work (long story but I thought it came with an adaptor to make my Paasche hose work and instead it was just a barbed end for a hose so it could attach to the airbrush). Anyway, I did a quick test with some windex to make sure it was clean and also to figure out what to expect in terms of coverage. I was a bit concerned it'd be too narrow to do base coats. I was wrong. If you pull it away from your work and let more paint out, it'll cover almost 2 inches. That's not bad at all! And if you're up close and only let a small amount of paint flow, it's down to fine lines that I could never get with my Paasche. My only complaint is it has no preset for the paint flow. The Paasche allowed you to "lock" the needle in a paint flowing setting so you didn't have to pull the lever to get paint to flow. Of course it wasn't as smooth as the Iwata and I might not miss that feature. And it's also possible I could put the needle in "loose" so that even with the lever all the forward, I could still get paint flow. I imagine this would be messy though and probably not the way the brush is designed to work.

Next up - satin coat on all the parts, some assembly and some burn marks/weathering on the feet.

Edited June 18, 2010 by mickyg

[mickyg]

Wow!

Night and day difference between a Paasche VL and an Iwata HP-C Plus (no idea about the other Iwatas but I'm sure they're all good too). Paint atomization was better, paint usage was better, control was better, precision is better, cleanup was easier. This really is an amazing tool! And the Paasche wasn't terrible, mind you! Anyway, if there's anyone reading this and wanting some ideas about airbrushes, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend an Iwata.

Now that my little promo for Iwata is finished here's what I got done in the last hour. Firstly, I didn't like the glossy finish I got on the main parts of the valk. There's something to be said for high gloss on exhibition aircraft but for some reason, I just think it looks a little too "flashy" on a valk. I know, I know, I'm talking about a blue painted aircraft! Still, it just didn't look quite right to me. So I thought a semi-gloss would work better. I don't have a semi-gloss clear available to me in a bottle so I mixed GSI gloss clear acrylic with GSI flat base. I checked all over the place for the proper ratio and couldn't find anything for GSI and ended up using a ratio for Tamiya flat base mixed with future, in a 1-15 ratio. It's hard measuring out the flat base - it's very thick and almost like a gel. I used my trusty medical syringe and measured out .1cc (at least I think it's in CC, the markings have worn off from paint solvents), then 1.5cc of gloss clear, and 1.5cc of tamiya thinner. So what's that, about 3cc of paint in total? That covered the whole model with 2 coats and I had about a 3rd left over! See what I mean by paint usage? Did I mention I'm impressed?

No pics yet, as semi-gloss is hard to photograph and I want to wait till I have some parts assembled before I take more photos.

Thanks for stopping by!

[PetarB]

Great to hear about the Iwata going well - its always a bit of a worry investing a lot of money in a new tool but in this case it sounds like money well spent.

I'm about 75% through the assembly of my VF-25 and it been going for 6 months I think! Threads like this are inspirational!

[mickyg]

The fact that a thread like this can inspire a seasoned modeller such as yourself is high praise indeed and makes all this slow and tedious work that much more worthwhile! Thanks Petar - glad you've stopped in.

Here's current progress:

The white parts of the wing root hinge after being painted blue, seem OK (sorry about the grainy, not so in focus pics - they're crops of the bigger one):

The overall sheen of the last clearcoat, as best a photo taken late at night under halogen ceiling downlights can do:

[leading edge]

The fact that a thread like this can inspire a seasoned modeller such as yourself is high praise indeed and makes all this slow and tedious work that much more worthwhile! Thanks Petar - glad you've stopped in.

Here's current progress:

The white parts of the wing root hinge after being painted blue, seem OK (sorry about the grainy, not so in focus pics - they're crops of the bigger one):

The overall sheen of the last clearcoat, as best a photo taken late at night under halogen ceiling downlights can do:

Nice choice with the Iwatta they really do a good job blending colors. Are you planning on adding a metalized finish to the cockpit? It tends to make the canopy look like a mirror/ translucent sunglasses like the FA/22 canopy except in this case a more bluish purple. here is an example.

[mickyg]

Funny you should mention that. There was a recent thread where the different canopy treatments were being discussed. Some have that rainbow affect, like the Yamato VF-1 (v2) toys, and others have a metallic gold affect. I was only planning to do the purple tint on this build (and still do). I've got an SV-51 that I would like to do the gold on though. Unfortunately, the consensus is that it's very difficult to achieve a decent gold tint on a plastic model. Partly due to the size of the metal flakes in most any gold paint, and probably also due to the small size of the canopies. Still, I do plan to try to do something to my SV-51 when I eventually get to it.

[leading edge]

Funny you should mention that. There was a recent thread where the different canopy treatments were being discussed. Some have that rainbow affect, like the Yamato VF-1 (v2) toys, and others have a metallic gold affect. I was only planning to do the purple tint on this build (and still do). I've got an SV-51 that I would like to do the gold on though. Unfortunately, the consensus is that it's very difficult to achieve a decent gold tint on a plastic model. Partly due to the size of the metal flakes in most any gold paint, and probably also due to the small size of the canopies. Still, I do plan to try to do something to my SV-51 when I eventually get to it.

Actually I found a way that is cheap and easy. http://image.misterart.com/grouppix/528x352/000/g467.jpg rub and buff. This is only a part of the process to change your canopy's surface shine and color. the first part is keeping the color from being distorted here are a few solutions 1. mount a iridescent mylar alumilzed wraping behind the canopy this is done with eiter a adhesive or a what I like to do is just use a heat gun or hairdryer to apply the film to the back of the canopy. 2. If the tinting is not enough or you want a single color in the spectrum to dominate like orange purple or green just dye the canopy or use a transparent color and paint via an airbrush. Remember to have a thinning solution ready and use test pieces to get the color right. It is also in my experience that you should wait to apply the irredescent film permanently it tends to be kind of distracting. A final note on this is to check in natural sunlight to maktre sure the color is working well with canopy and there are no blotches or bubles in the film. 3. If the coating of transparent film is not metalic enough just apply a little rub and buff wax ( be sure there is a clear coat of thin transparent acrylic on the surface before you do this) without a clear coat of protection the transparent layer on the canopy can be rubbed off. Wax from rub and buff is pretty easy from there just polish gently or as the instruction tell you and you should have a incredible finish. A final advice make sure to do all these steps as fine as you can and practice before you try this or you will have to repeat the process again.

[mickyg]

That sounds really scary on something as small as the canopies on all these 1/72 scale models. I can't imagine being able to do it on the VF-25 series kits, as there's just way too many extra ribs and pegs on the inside of the canopies. On a hasegawa kit, perhaps. It's certainly something I'll consider as I get closer to doing my 3 kits (one each of VF-1D, VF-0S, SV-51y).

[mickyg]

I got most of the model put back together at work today. And of course forgot my camera!

A couple of observations that I'd forgotten about and they could stand to be repeated.

• The legs fit so badly on these kits. I forgot how fiddly it is to get them in exactly the right shape with the knee and hip joints to get them to sit right.
  
• The arms are even worse! Getting the shoulder/wing root puzzle piece to align properly is a royal pain. One of the joints has cracked and it's frustrating as anything trying to get the arm positioned without completely snapping the joint in two.
  
• Despite all that, it really looks impressive and I'm glad I've taken my time as I have.
  
• Oh, did I mention I'd purchased tiny magnets for this way back at the beginning of this crazy long build? Yeah, not going to use them. No way I can be bothered trying to get them positioned now that I've come this far. Plus, there's very little chance I'm going to transform this, given how fragile the joints are and how much time and effort I've spent on painting and decaling it. I'm feeling a bit sick now that I think of all the details I've added that will never be seen in fighter mode...
  

[mickyg]

Brought the camera this morning so here's some pics. They were rushed and half of them are at a crazy ISO (1600) so the colours aren't very pretty. The other half are OK and give a better idea of how this looks. Still more super parts to add. I'll do my best to get that done today. Worth noting in pic 1 is the gap between the knee and thigh. Am I doing something wrong here? It's a huge gap that can't possibly be the way it should be. Or can it?

Edited June 23, 2010 by mickyg

[mickyg]

Well, I'm starting to officially hate this kit! I got an extra few minutes to add a few more parts to the kit this afternoon (no pics though) and to my dismay, in the process of fitting the missle launch mounts (which are white - what the?), hip guns, and boosters, managed to scratch paint, distort the legs so they can't possibly line up without practically disassembling them, and tear a decal on the dreaded shoulder/wing root puzzle piece. Gah!!!

There are a few things working against me right now. The kit is very fragile. Maybe I got a dud, I don't know, but it's just so incredibly easy to make parts rub and slip out of alignment. I feel like if I actually do get it right, one wrong touch is going to completely mess it up! And the other thing is the super close tolerance of some of the parts but not all. The hip guns, shoulders, wing roots, and legs all must go together in exactly the right shape/allignment or nothing fits. Add the microscopically thin layer of paint and it makes it even harder to fit things up right. It's just incredibly frustrating!

OK, venting complete. I'll hopefully look at this fresh tomorrow. Hopefully...