MickyG's (Slow) VF-25G Build

[honkhet]

the diff shades of blue are now coming out really nice man

i wish i did that on my alto but its a bit too late now

almost went insane cleaning up all the smudges too

alto's being white is so prone to smudges

i'll try to find the Tamiya Finish polishing compound you recommended...

[mickyg]

Thanks man! And these pics are on my crappy E71 phone's cam. I'll try to take some better ones this weekend when I've got my wife's camera again.

Regarding the Finish compound, it's really fine so will get in the panel lines very easily. Just means you need to use a toothbrush to wash it off afterward.

[mickyg]

Took some pics with the good camera yesterday. I've completed a few more decals, and as I get more used to these, they're coming up better and better. The left wing is almost flawless. Unfortunately, the SMS003 decal on the right wing stuck almost instantly and no amount of water or softener would allow me to move it. So it's probably a bit farther away from the line than it should be. At least it's straight though!

Almost done, except for oil wash on left side parts:

Red circled part = parts of the decal etched/melted away due to softener that I left on. This was the point where I realised what was happening and learned that I have to come back with a damp cloth and get rid of any excess, before it dries and ruins the decal. The orange circle is the point where the decal folds over to match that sharper contour of the knee. I mentioned it in a previous post. This knee is ugly and will likely require some touch up or repainting.

Edited September 3, 2009 by mickyg

[Lolicon]

Ouch! Sorry to hear about the problems with the decals and softener. It's those kinds of issues that make me reluctant to use Mr Mark Softer except where absolutely necessary. Although I've never had any decal tears like that, the areas where excess wasn't wicked off right away would have a pock mark where the texture differed, though it was visible only from certain light angles.

Do you use any kind of decal setting solution like Mr Mark Setter? It's made decaling so much easier, it's unbelievable.

[mickyg]

No I haven't. I've only found Mr Mark Softer out here, which is annoying. However, the last 4 decals I've done (2 stripes on the left wing, the one on the left wing root, the SMS003 label) all went flawlessly without the setter solution. Although, I don't know what I'm missing, perhaps the setter would make things easier than they already are. Ignorance is bliss in this case though!

I think the combination of acrylic paints and laziness is my main issue. I should be clearcoating over the acrylics but didn't. I expect that would have made things a bit less fiddly. I'll consider this for the super parts, although that paint will be glossy there as well... Maybe, maybe not, we'll see.

[Lolicon]

My experience with Mr Mark Setter is that it really makes it easy line decals into place. I don't know how to really describe it, but the buoyancy of the liquid is different from water and it's not as easy to shift a decal out of place on accident. And as it dries o as you wick excess off, it just pulls the decal down into place better and has some kind of sticky element to it that makes decals stick better. This is poor explanation, as I don't know how else to describe it.

It's helped me avoid using Softer on almost every decal.

If you have no problems with just water though, more power to you! With modeling, do whatever works best for ya!

Gloss clearcoating over acrylics (or any paint really) is good since it protects your paintjob and makes decaling easier (smooth surface).

I'm finishing up the arms myself. I am now master of the shoulder hexes!

[mickyg]

Well, if I eventually do find it, I'll pick some up!

In the meantime, I had an OK experience last night with the next few I applied. Although the tops of the shoulder "puzzle pieces" were a bit of a pain!

[honkhet]

hi mickyg,

same as lolicon i also use mr mark setter all the time,

its a really good product!

do try ur best to find it... will make ur life easier

meanwhile, keep up the good work

[mickyg]

Not much to report for yesterday/today. I got the decals for the front part of the lerx on - that was pretty easy. It's also much easier knowing I'm doing the super parts scheme only on this build so exactness of the "puzzle piece" parts and their decals is a non-issue.

I painted the feet the other day with a metallic grey that I really like. I mixed - wait for it - 4 different colours to get what I liked. Here's my mixing guide (so I don't forget it):

6 parts Neutral Grey

2 parts RLM 75 Grey

1 part Light Gull Grey

2 parts Steel

2 parts Gun Metal

The greys were basically what was called for on the box (kind of - I didn't have exactly what was called for) and the metallics just seemed like a good idea.

I also painted the inside of the feet with steel to give it a more jet exhaust look. I had thought the inserts at the bottom would do this but the sides of the feet "shell" are still exposed on the inside. This should bring everything together.

[honkhet]

that looks like a great color to go with the blue!

i really admire your patience and attention when it comes to getting the right color

[oldpainless]

Hey mickig

The paint job you have done looks great!! I have one VF-25G waiting for assembly, so I will follow your build. Sorry for your problem with the bandai decals, if your not happy with the results of the stripes, you can alway rip them and paint them ( I did it once !!)

Regards

[mickyg]

Hey mickig

The paint job you have done looks great!! I have one VF-25G waiting for assembly, so I will follow your build. Sorry for your problem with the bandai decals, if your not happy with the results of the stripes, you can alway rip them and paint them ( I did it once !!)

Regards

Thanks for the kind words! And a warm welcome to the forums!

I'm glad I've done well enough with this build that someone would actually think to use it. I hope it comes in handy for those that wish to use it.

I haven't got pics yet but I've done a fair bit this weekend on the super parts. I also got some (un-documented, pic-wise) work done on the legs. They're almost done now. The decals for the feet still need doing (black marks) and the SMS designations on the shins. Then it's on to the super parts. Man those ankle pieces were a nightmare! The back ones especially. None of them are quite long enough and getting them to line up and sit flat was a joke.

For this weekend, I've airbrushed the grey/purple. Unfortunately, I ran out of paint before I made to the big parts. Not only that, I'm using an air storage tank with a 12v compressor that I "charge" it with. That lasts about 5 minutes it seems. I haven't rigged it up to be self regulating but would love to. It's a pain to stop/start with disconnecting, charging, using it, disconnecting, etc... This is the first time it's run out in the middle of a job and I didn't notice. I could tell I wasn't getting much consistency in the paint near the end but I thought it was because I'd run out of paint. So my last few pieces are thick and inconsistent, paint wise. I'll likely start over on these (gotta love windex and a toothbrush!).

Another area that I spent considerable time on was the micro-missile port on the top of the boosters. The tops are slotted for the fold communication device on Luca's valk. No other valk uses this. It's nice that Bandai made the kit universal but in my opinion, the hole is ugly for the rest of the valks. And actually, it's unecessary on the other side anyway, as only one side gets the device.

Anyway, I used some very thin (.03mm) plaplate and cut out a tiny little cover for this piece. It is very crude but seems to do the trick. I scribed the little opening marks into the piece as well. For that I use the Tamiya plastic scriber, wich worked very well.

Pics:

Edited September 13, 2009 by mickyg

[honkhet]

the super part colors look very nice indeed!

i'm jealous of your work man

[mickyg]

Hah! Thanks man. I'm jealous of yours as well, and especially so of the fact that you've got all of the squadron!

[mickyg]

Have I mentioned how much I hate some of these decals?

I was experimenting a bit with the super parts and decals to see whether I could get away with applying them over a flat surface - I REALLY don't want to gloss coat the super parts if I don't have to. The paint application has just been too thick and the parts are so large and irregularly shaped that putting another layer of anything on is a royal PITA. The flat, final coat will by my goal for clearcoating.

Anyway, I tried out the little triangular parts on the bottom of the boosters and it actually came up well with a bit of Mark Softer. No silvering that I can see. Once I get that final flat clear on it, I doubt it'll be visible. So I'm ok with this so far. So I decided to go for the intake cover decals next, since this is over bare plastic, I figured it'd be easier and would give me a good indication of how this was going to look. BZZZZT! Wrong! That decal has to be the most painful thing I've ever tried to apply. There are cutouts to get it to conform around the bottom, but strangely, nothing for the top. There is no way this will fit and if anyone's been successful, please share some pics of how it ended up.

Mine ended up like this:

[Lolicon]

Hey MickyG, are you talking about the decal that goes over the top of the legs and wing boosters? The Armor parts have a similar decal. I was able to get mine to fit well. You have to accept that it's not going to be a perfect fit and work from there. I always put down Mark Setter on the part before attempting to apply a decal, so that may have helped. However, this is one of the few decals where I had to break out Mr Mark Softer. Using a fine tip brush (the default brush out of the bottle is way too big) I applied Mr Mark Softer across the decal... and then sat there for a little while softly brushing the entire decal to keep the liquid from beading up and spread evenly across the entire decal. Rather tedious work, but it worked out in the end!

In the future, I'd rather just paint that part and apply the little red triangle decal separately (the kit comes with alternate decals for those who wish to paint that section). Looking at my Super parts decal sheet, it looks like the intake decal is even worse. I see that the decal requires you to notch the edges of the decal. The circular spheres on the ankles are very similar to that also. I carefully notched the decal where the edges were supposed to fold together, and after application, I applied a large amount of Mr Mark Softer and hoped for the best.

As I've said before, I avoid using Mr Mark Softer if I can on these decals, due to poor absorption. I believe those two decals are the only ones on the entire kit I've used it on so far!

Hope this helps!

[mickyg]

Yep, the ones in your first two pics are the ones I'm talking about. It looks like the armored takes a simpler approach to the intake "plug" than the super parts does. And yours looks great! That ankle piece looks like it'd be a nightmare!

I'll definitely be painting the intake plug on mine. Upon further inspection, this will actually be easier, as there's a distinct line between the blue and the white part. Should be very easy, even to brush paint, after I mask it off. In fact, I think I'll paint all the super part blue areas, none of them look terribly difficult. The white pinstripes on the missile covers look to be the most challenging but I think I can manage that by painting it blue, then masking and airbrushing for the pinstripes.

[Lolicon]

Hehehe the answer to 90% of the problems associated with Bandai decals: just paint it!

Heck, you don't even have to paint the whole thing. You could trim off the problematic section of the decals (say the white part or one of the blue sections) and paint that in, then just apply the easier part of the decal over the rest. I don't have the decal sheet in front of me right now, but could you say paint the entire intake part in blue, and then just trim out the white part of the decal and apply that? Or vice versa?

[mickyg]

I sure could! In fact, that's my plan on most of this now. Unless it's tiny (like all the white marks on the super parts) or really complex (sms symbols for instance) I'll just paint it. The intake parts and tips of the boosters are already molded in white so I'll just need to paint the blue. Should be a piece of cake!

Progress for the last few days has been on the missiles. I started by painting the whole block the recommended white + light gull grey. I ended up with a very yellow looking offwhite though. So I put a second coat of just white on to even it out. After that I attempted to use a small brush and ammonia to wipe the tips off, but for whatever reason it didn't work. I then tried a sponge - same thing, the paint just stuck too well. Finally, I used a toothpick, soaked in ammonia. That worked. It's not a great line and there's some chips here and there but it's acceptable. After that was done, I applied a very dark grey wash to the base, trying to be careful not to get it on the missiles themselves. It was a bit difficult because the surfaces isn't really flat, so it tended to pool up in places. I let that sit a few hours and then carefully wiped off as much as I could around the base, without actually removing the "stain" of the grey. In my opinion, it looks really dirty and grimey. I'm not sure what the base of a missile launching device should look like but I'm guessing they're probably not real clean.

First pic is from the good camera, the rest are from my phone:

[mickyg]

Wow, those look terrible! They're a lot softer and less grainy to the naked eye. They're still not what I want though...

[mickyg]

Got some work done this week on the missle covers. Epic fail! Brush painting gloss blue over white is a complete joke! Here's the results:

Yeah, not pretty. So given this will need to be airbrushed, I windexed it, then masked for the white borders. Tiny strips of masking tape here! Ruler and a sharp knife is a must!

Missiles after they've been cleaned up some. Also helps that they're now in their housings, otherwise, they just look really crappy.

Also had a chance to experiment with the decals on a flat surface. To my surprise, the decals, even without softener look OK on the flat super parts. I futured one, applied the decal, then futured over the top to see if it'd hide the clear carrier borders any better, but to my eye, it looks the same or possibly worse. I also experimented with just futuring over the decal after it'd been applied but that was about the same too. Honestly, I think the decal applied on the flat paint, without softener, was the best looking out of the bunch. Not sure how but it looks like these decals aren't the same as what I'm used to. Anyway, you probably can't tell from these pics what they really look like, but I think once I get another flat coat on them, they'll look pretty good.

And on to the really nasty part of this so far. This has to be my 2nd least favourite decal so far! The irregular shape, the fact it doesn't match ANY of the panel lines in this thing and the stark contrast, all conspire against getting a decent result. Oh that, and somehow the decal softener didn't do much of anything this time around. Anyway, it seems to be responding to a second application of the softener, even the day after, so this might just require a bit more time to get it to conform to the panel lines a bit better. Or I could decide I really don't care and just go with what I've got...

[Lolicon]

That's some insane masking! Your masking fortitude and precision amazes me! I went nuts just at the amount of masking to paint the tailfins. I want to see how the airbrushing turns out.

Bandai decals are pretty thick and require a lot of coats to hide the edges...

[mickyg]

Some call it fortitude and precision, others call in "anal retentive!"

Either way, thanks! This wasn't actually so bad, all the tape was applied to a straight edge so it wasn't too difficult to line it all up properly. I'm sure more complex surfaces will give me more problems. I'll try that out on the booster and intake covers/tips.

So I'm assuming you're referring to the landing gear door in that last pic? I'm going to clear coat it, perhaps put a second one on too (gloss) then go over it with a flat coat. As much as I love the results you've gotten with Gunze spray clears, I've got a few dollars invested in testors lacquers that I'm going to have to at least try! I'll see how it goes and update accordingly.

More progress on decalling only yesterday. I'll post again with more details and pics later.

[mickyg]

Small progress these last few days. Got some decaling done 2 days ago:

I decided against using the nasty, dotty, brown-like panel and will paint it with some mix of metallic colours I've got on hand. I also ended up cutting this into 3 sections. Kind of as an experiment. If I had it to do again, I would not have left the black "panel line filler" there and would just have cut it off. I thought it'd help me align the decal better with it on though. And I suppose it did. But the black doesn't really conform to the shape of the panel lines all that great and if you look closely, you can see it coming outside the lines. I may scrape the black off if it offends me too much!

I didn't do any model yesterday, due to this new arrival:

Very impressive but not up to the same quality level as the guy in the lower left corner. No, not my son, the valk! (My son trumps all my toys, by the way). I think Yamato did an incredible job with the v2 VF-1s and you really start to appreciate it when you get an older valk. It's like these weren't even made by the same company! And the SV is a cool toy, don't get me wrong. Oh, and did I mention it was broken out of the box? Yeah. Anyway, that's for another thread.

Today, got more masking done. Pics are crap again but the technique is pretty repeatable for this sort of thing:

1. Trim thin strips with a ruler (preferably a metal one so you don't cut chunks out of it).
2. Place them over any panel lines or sharp contours.
3. Press them down with something sharp, like a toothpick
4. Cut along the depressed lines
5. Remove what you don't want.

More to do still!

Edited September 23, 2009 by mickyg

[mickyg]

I did some more on Friday but not tons. I got a bit annoyed with the seam line in the super booster packs, so glued them together, then used Mr. Surfacer to fill in the seam. I don't have any lacquer thinner with me at work and hate using the stuff if I can help it so just used a toothpick to put the surfacer on. I like this stuff because it both spreads out and dries quickly, something which would seem impossible. Anyway, I sanded it down after a few hours, applied another layer to areas that still needed it and sanded again.

I also managed to get the blue on the super parts done this weekend. these came out good but not as good as I'd hoped. The paint mixture was a bit too thinned and required a few fairly wet coats to really cover the white parts. The booster tips came up best, with a very glossy blue that you probably can't see in the pictures. I'll flat coat all these so any gloss will disappear.

as you can see, the lines aren't the cleanest. They're really small though so I hope a slight bit of cleanup, the scale and a flat coat will make it look a bit better.

Edited October 2, 2009 by mickyg

[honkhet]

nice work and keep the updates coming!

the white stripes on top of ur blue missle cover is amazing man...

ur seriously tempting me to buy another 25G + super packs

the one i have now has so much bare plastic it cant even hold a candle to ur work lol

[mickyg]

thanks man. If I can inspire people to try new things, I'm a happy man!

I didn't get much done this week. Work has been crazy busy and my typical free lunch break has been pretty chaotic. I got my PE parts from newca this week so will likely do the cockpit first and hopefully soon.

Anyway, about the only item got done this week is the metallicy brown bits on the leg super parts. No pics yet and I'm not even sure I like the colour yet. More tomorrow...

[Lolicon]

I like the masking and painting you did for the missile covers. That's both insane and awesome.

Hey, have you decided what color you're going to paint the gunpod? I'm at an impasse at how what color to paint because the default color is so seemingly... festive. The armor pack fins are the same color, which is why I haven't finished those either.

[mickyg]

I've got the sniper rifle, remember? Plus, I already finished that a few pages back.

If I can imagine I was lucky enough to have an armoured, I would likely paint it a similar colour to what I've done the super parts with. I don't know, I don't have a huge problem with the default colour because in my mind, the guns looks decidedly Zentradi anyway. That whole split thing just reminds me of their cap ships. So yeah, when I look at it that way, at least it's not green, right?

Another take would be what WM Cheng did with his gun pod - I think he went Alclad aluminum, then dipped it in the same future mix he did the canopy with. Some may hate that candy, purpley, sort of colour, but I thought it looked very cool!

[Lolicon]

Oh right, you have the sniper rifle. What the hell am I thinking?

I don't have any Alclad, but I did try the purple Future mix I had for the canopy... it didn't work out so well for me. Ah well back to the drawing board with that...

[mickyg]

How to Ruin a Meticulous Paint Job:

So I thought I'd spray some of that Testor's dull cote on my freshly painted, blue super part pieces yesterday. I figured they weren't going to have any decals on them and a flat coat would seal them up so they didn't get scratched while I'm working on everything else.

It was a nice sunny day, so I put the parts back on bamboo skewers and took them outside. I did everything I've always done, shook the can up, made sure there was no wind or bugs around, and then just sprayed from the normal 10-12" distance. To my horror, I watched as the paint just started to run! It was like I'd painted them 5 minutes ago and, since they're acrylics, sprayed windex on them! This did not happen when I painted the sniper rifle with my grey metallic concoction (gun metal plus neutral grey, I think). There must be something about the gloss paints that's different to metallics or flat paint.

So here's the damage:

So I figure I'll sand everything back and start again. Luckily, most of these pieces are made up of relatively flat faces, so sanding shouldn't be terribly difficult. And as complicated as the masking looked, it's not too bad and will be easier the second time around. Look on the bright side, right?

Edited October 4, 2009 by mickyg

[BeyondTheGrave]

That sucks.

Only thing I can think of is that the testors paint is more aggressive than Tamiya paint.

[mickyg]

PHEW!!!

I started sanding with very fine grit paper (1200 I think) and noticed the paint was either very thin, or very soft. Either way, it came off the face of the intake cover very easily. For some reason, I decided to spray a bit of windex on the part. Maybe it was because I thought the edges of paint exposed under the clear would soak some of it up, who knows. Anyway, to my surprise, the paint disolved! Thinking it was a fluke, I sprayed about a teaspoon of windex into a cup, dropped the rest of the parts in and was astonished to find they all responded to the windex! So I've got white parts again and no real effort to get rid of the paint and flat clearcoat.

My guess is that this clearcoat didn't go on very thick at all. I'm also thinking perhaps 10 year old canned paint shouldn't be expected to perform as new! Either way, from now on, I'll be taking a scrap piece of polystyrene with me any time I paint to make sure I'm not going to screw up my work.

Next step will be after I repaint these parts. I'll test out using the testors bottle clear coats and their recommended lacquer thinner. I'm hoping several very light coats at a low pressure will be OK on this. But this time I'll test it first to see what happens.

Oh, and BeyondTheGrave: No doubt it's more aggressive! I just didn't know or hadn't heard anyone say that testors lacquer flat ("dull cote" as they call it) would behave like windex! I especially wasn't prepaired for it given what an easy time I had with it a few months back when I did the sniper rifle. Oh well, you live and learn.

Edited October 4, 2009 by mickyg

[wm cheng]

Hey mickyg,

Was it you with the dessolving paint on the gun? Sorry, I can't remember since I get so many questions all the time. Lets just say; "Stay away from Testors!" I learnt that most of my problems usually stem from that company and I haven't used them for years. My guess is that the Testors dullcoat was a lacquer (or even enamel) and that reacts "hotly" to the acrylics underneath. I love Tamiya (acrylics are easy to clean up, doesn't smell - only they don't adhere as well to plastics) - but you should stick to acrylic clear coats on acrylic paints. Acrylics will not react to any of the other paints such as Lacquers or enamels. On a scale;

"HOT" highly reactive paints (start with these at the bottom - against the plastic and work your way down the list) -

Lacquers (first coat against the plastic) - because of their reactive natures, they "etch" into the plastic - very hard to remove, but can be sanded to feather out the paint to be seamless (often primers are lacquers) - never use them for anything transparent as they will make it foggy due to its etched quality. I'm sure the solvent is quite toxic too. Definitely where a respirator mask with a filter for "Organic" solvents (most unhealthy). Aclad metalizers are lacquers and I've never applied them over acrylics.

Enamels - doesn't etch/melt the plastic like lacquers, but very durable - must use enamel solvent to remove or sand off. Some can feather out when sanded, but glossy paints tend to form a skin that doesn't feather so nicely. The paint and solvent stinks, so it can't be too good for your lungs.

Acrylics (top coat - or only stick to these paints) - least reactive, most inert - unfortunately, it means the paint just lays on top of the plastic. Easy to remove especially with alcohol or windex (I use windex to clean out my airbrushes all the time - cheap and effective, I think the active ingredient is ammonia, only the blue regular windex with Ammonia D works well). The flat paint can scratch off easily unless its sealed in with a clear-coat (I always recommend Model Master Acryl clear coats). Thats why I always use these clear coats to seal in a paint job/layer that I like so subsequent layers doesn't affect the underlying layer.

Good luck,

Wm

[mickyg]

Hi William,

Thanks for your comments. We really should put stuff like that in an FAQ for this section of the forum!

Yes, that was me - but the story's a bit different for my gun experience.

I painted the gun in Tamiya acrylics (gun metal + neutral grey mixture), then sprayed a coat of Testor's Dull Cote flat clear. I had no problems at all. Where it all came apart was when I decided, "hey wait, I want a gloss coat over this so I can do the oil wash and not have a terrible time wiping it off a flat coated surface" so I then used an automotive spray can of lacquer based, high gloss acrylic. That's where my problem was originally. That didn't really melt the paint so much as cause this nasty, crazing/wrinkle effect. There were no places in the paint were it looked like it had dissolved through or thinned the paint like it did on my blue parts.

Hopefully that clarifies why I'd try this a second time. But just to re-iterate:

1. I used Tamiya Acrylics - a metal and a flat mixed for the gun, then overcoated with my Testor's flat, clear coat - no problems here.
2. I had problems not with the flat, but with my gloss clear, automotive lacquer acrylic that I sprayed over the flat
3. The blue parts are all Gunze Sangyo (GSI) acrylics (Bright blue, sky blue and a few drops of clear blue) and they're all gloss
4. Since I had the problem with the gun but only with the automotive, gloss clear coat, I figured there'd be no reason to worry about the blue paint and flat clear coat.

So either the flat clear reacted differently to gloss paints, or it reacts to GSI paints and not Tamiya (I'm thinking this is doubtful), or the only other option I can think of is that perhaps the flat clear has separated over the last 10+ years I've had it and rather than spraying paint, I was spraying the lacquer solvent. That might also explain why there was such a thin layer of clear over the blue and why I was able to simply soak the parts in windex for a few seconds to remove the paint. In places where it was just white plastic, I really couldn't see much flat clear coat remaining.

Anyway. I'm at a bit of a stuck point now. I wanted to use lacquers for my clear coats for the reasons you've outlined. It bites better, and so ends up being a lot more durable. I was hoping I could get away with using a more aggressive clear so it would bond with the underlying paint better and be more chip/wear resistant. In fact, this is what Lolicon is doing and I'm sure he'll chime in. I think he uses acrylic paints with a GSI lacquer clear over the top, then an acrylic "topcoat" as the last coat.

Lolicon, can you comment on how whether or not you use gloss acrylics or flats before your clear coats?

Edited October 5, 2009 by mickyg