MickyG's (Slow) VF-25G Build

[Lolicon]

That looks beautiful! I must say, you finished quite quickly.

That's such a great looking paint job. Taking the effort to actually paint it makes such a world of difference, as I'm learning with my Armored. Sadly I'm not as efficient and it'll be awhile before I'm done.

Also, now that I've started assembling parts, I definitely like the more varied grey-white and blue-white color structure of the 25S and 25G more than the all-white 25F. (Note: Not bothering to paint another pilot since it's staying in battroid mode, and it looks really dumb seeing a pilot figure facing upwards through the side crack.)

Edited August 13, 2009 by Lolicon

[wm cheng]

That said, I've got semi and gloss clear of the Model Master bottles and am still wondering what I'll end up using to thin it. The automotive stuff is just something I had lying around from an old project and I'm not sure I'll end up using it. Looking at WM Cheng's builds, he never uses a high gloss even for what he decals over. So perhaps it's easier for me to just abandon the can and stick to airbrushing with what I've got.

Sorry to hear about your lacquer run-in - I trust that you read my post to your question on my VF-25 thread. Mixing paints is tricky business. I cheat a lot (because I'm lazy) but I decal over semi-gloss finish only on white models, as you can see most of my Valkyries have been white or very light in colour. Its very hard to see the "silvering" on the edges of decal film against a light colour. However, since you guys are applying decals onto a fairly dark surface, I would DEFINITELY do a very smooth gloss coat on prior to decalling. I always do a gloss ModelMaster Acryl clear-coat on anything that is darker than very light grey. Dark rough surfaces are the worst at showing the decal film - called silvering. I've tried using future as suggested by many modellers, but I find it quite thick and can obscure fine engraved details (not a problem here with Bandai) but when spraying the flat/matte clear-coat on afterwards, one must do so in very light even coats to start off - a heavy wet coat will "reticulate" on the surface of the future. In fact, always spray light even coats, its always better to spray lots of light even coats than one heavy wet one. So definitely do a smooth gloss coat before decalling this dark blue puppy! Additionally, the ModelMaster Acryl clear-coats I use have specific airbrush thinner and a dried paint solvent for them which I highly recommend using instead of experimenting with alternatives.

These are the clears I use:

http://www.testors.com/category/136694/Clears

http://www.testors.com/category/137115/Thinners

http://www.testors.com/category/137118/Cleaners

[Cent]

Thanks for the advice, Cheng. I definitely had a ton of silvering issues on the decals along the underside. While I did use a few coats of future on the parts that I expected to decal over, it was still not enough for the 003 on the tail fin or the large black arrow below the fuselage. I'm considering pulling them off to redo it, but I'm out of time atm.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Cent

[mickyg]

Yes thanks so much! So now I'm a bit annoyed I didn't search harder when I bought my paints. This is what I've purchased (all except flat): http://www.testors.com/category/136299/Int...re_Enamel_Paint

And it's obvious these are not acrylics! They'll probably be durable but I've got a lot less wiggle room if I screw anything up because it's going to be next to impossible to remove. Note: I haven't even opened these paints yet so I can't comment on how they look or what they'll be like to apply. I imagine they'll be pretty durable though.

[BeyondTheGrave]

You guys are making me want to blow some cash on another model.

Sorry to hear about your mishap with the clear coat. If you had said you were going to use it before I probably could have stopped you.

Be happy it didn't melt the plastic.

I think why the finish on your gun is coming out wrinkled is b/c the paint underneath wasn't rough( can't think of a better word), or it wasn't evenly applied.

[mickyg]

Yeah, it sucks. I'm fairly certain it reacted with the Testors Dull Cote. There were a few places the dullcote wasn't applied and the gloss went on fine there. It didn't react with the underlying acrylic paint or the plastic anywhere I could see. I'm still contemplating a test on some spare styrene sheets I've got. Some with paint, some without, some with the dullcote. I think it'll confirm my suspicions.

[TER-OR]

Yeah, it sucks. I'm fairly certain it reacted with the Testors Dull Cote. There were a few places the dullcote wasn't applied and the gloss went on fine there. It didn't react with the underlying acrylic paint or the plastic anywhere I could see. I'm still contemplating a test on some spare styrene sheets I've got. Some with paint, some without, some with the dullcote. I think it'll confirm my suspicions.

Testor's Dullcoat is much too aggressive. I greatly prefer PolyScale's Flat Clear, but you have to dilute it pretty well.

[mickyg]

I don't think the dullcote was the problem. The gloss was, in my opinion. The dull did slightly attack the purple markings, though I think I accelerated that by soaking the parts in weak water/dishsoap solution. Still, it was OK after the dull. The problem came after I applied the gloss. I think the gloss was pretty hot and attacked the dull cote, which caused the wrinkling. I could be wrong though!

Edited August 14, 2009 by mickyg

[shiroikaze]

@Cent: Awesome pictures of your VF-25G. I noticed that the intakes are flush and there are hardly any big gaps. Did you use magnets? What sizes were they if you did?

Edited August 15, 2009 by shiroikaze

[mickyg]

Yes, do tell! They look very tight. I've got magnets but the longer this build drags out, the more I'm wondering if I'll ever get around to fitting them.

Got the top all masked so far for the slightly darker blue accents this weekend. Also experimented with the new future knock off that I managed to find. So far, just retinting the canopy. Two coats and the second didn't eat the first. So far, so good! Pics forthcoming, of course.

[Cent]

I didn't use magnets, the kit was super tight as I was assembling it already. Squeezing the parts together and pushing them up into place, they locked and held just on grip and stiffness. The tightness is enough to scrape paint off if you're not careful. I'm not sure if it was because it was the first time assembling it (I didn't do preassembly) or if the several coats of paint increased the tightness, but magnets are completely unnecessary for it. I can't even raise the legs to a higher position if I tried, its already pushed up as far as it can be against the body, and doesn't sag at all.

Edited August 16, 2009 by Cent

[honkhet]

the normal bare naked Valkyrie has no problems with the legs sagging in jet mode, even without clear coat tightness.

you'll only start seeing the problem when you add the super parts.

clear coat will help a little.

but only magnets will truly solve the problem.

luckily, the armored version has tabs to lock itself together.

so, i just want to say that the super parts are quite poorly design from this perspective (only).

Edited August 16, 2009 by honkhet

[mickyg]

Pics forthcoming, of course.

First the canopy, along with the front sensor array (I'm guessing that's what it is) that was done with my old mix. You can see there's a bit of a difference in colour. I think I'm OK with it though:

And the masking, masking, masking! Wow this is tedious!

I still have the tailfins to do (the white parts on the top and backs) and some bits on the hip/crotch area left but otherwise, I think we're almost there! Oh, and the super parts, of course. I'm wondering if I'll bother to paint them, or just leave them as is and overcoat in flat clear. In some lighting, they look grey enough for my liking. In others (mainly flourescent) they look too purple.

[honkhet]

hi micky! (i'm back from my hiatus due to ROTF fever;))

i would like to see you paint the super parts

for mine, i really regreted not painting them

they really look too purple/blue

its too late for me now as all my decals have already been applied

but js wondering what would be the correct color to paint them?

i am thinking of painting my armored alto parts with something close to metallic dark iron...

[mickyg]

I had a darker grey in mind but not quite german grey as I've seen done on an Ozma S floating around here somewhere. Not sure about metallic though. I think that might potentially clash with the metal inner frame parts. I'll experiment a bit. Still a few weeks off before I get to that point.

[mickyg]

I had some success with the gun this weekend. I managed to wet sand the wrinkles out of the top gloss coat and then sprayed it down with the dullcote (flat) again. I know, I know, what am I thinking using the dullcote again?! I had a hunch I wanted to test though and it seems I proved it right! The dullcote is not the problem, it's the much harsher, highly lacquer based gloss coat that was reacting with the dullcote. So I'll relegate that gloss to something that I don't care about in the future.

I'm still looking for a less reactive lacquer thinner for my Testors clear coats I've got. I think there will end up being something that'll work, just have to keep checking my local hobby stores for something. Maybe Gunze mr colour thinner? I think that's all I've seen at my local stores here in Australia.

Anyway, here's some pics of the gun in its almost finished state. I've applied a black wash but it's mostly lost in the darker paint. The parts not covered by the tines were what got dull coted. So the insides of the tines, and the parts directly underneath are still glossy. I'll give those a quick spray as well and then the gun will be finished.

[mickyg]

I played around a bit today with colours for the super parts. I thought a grey with some blue cast to it would be appropriate. I'm not sure I like it yet so wanted people's opinions. Of course my crappy phone cam isn't going to help here. I've colour corrected the shots but they're still too purple with flash and too grey without. The real colour is somewhere in between what you see here.

Oh, and because I know I'll forget, I'll put the colour mix here. At least I know it's here and not committed to my (terrible) memory!

5 parts Neutral Grey, one part Midnight Blue, one part Blue, one part white. The "parts" here were drops off the end of a toothpick. Hard to believe only 8 drops of paint, with some thinner covered that much of the booster part. And I had some leftover!

I've put the blue parts in the shot to offer some contrast. Opinions?

Oh, and if I decide I hate it, I can wipe it off with windex. I love that aspect!

Edited August 26, 2009 by mickyg

[honkhet]

hmm... trying to go for a TV Max kind of scheme? doesn't really work... just my opinion

ur gunpod looks ace tho

[mickyg]

Thanks Honkhet! No, TV max isn't intentional. Probably subconscious though.

The more I look at it, the more it starts looking green. Crap! I guess nothing ventured, nothing gained, right? I might try doing a bit more of a blue cast to it. I think midnight blue is responsible for the green component. I might go neutral grey mixed with bright blue next time. Or just regular blue. We'll see how it looks with that.

Edited August 26, 2009 by mickyg

[pd78]

I'm sorry but what is the rationale for having to spray a layer of dullcoat when you're going to gloss coat it in the end?

[mickyg]

Not sure what you mean. Where did I do that? Oh, are you talking about the gun? The dullcoat folowed by gloss was kind of an accident. If you're referring to something else, I'm a bit lost.

But if you're wondering what would be the rational behind dullcoat, then gloss. It comes in handy if you want to drybrush, as drybrushing over a dull surface is easier than a gloss (sticks better). You could then go over it with a gloss, if that's the effect you're after. I don't know what that effect would be though!

Most of what I'll be doing though will likely be gloss first, then flat or semi over the gloss. Gloss is easier to apply a wash over then wipe off, whereas a dull would tend to stain when you wipe it off. Gloss is also necessary for decals to look like part of the paint work. If you apply a decal over a matt finish, you'll likely get tiny bubbles under the surface, which will make the carrier film appear opaque (also called silvering). So you usually gloss, apply decals, then put whatever matt, semi-gloss, or gloss over that to seal it all in.

Anyway, hope that answers your question.

Edited August 26, 2009 by mickyg

[mickyg]

hmm... trying to go for a TV Max kind of scheme? doesn't really work... just my opinion

ur gunpod looks ace tho

Hey, did you mean the colour or the grey on purple scheme? Because the "scheme" wasn't intentional. The whole part will be painted whatever colour I decide on. The half grey/purple was just me getting an idea of the difference in colour.

As you can probably tell, I'm still trying to decide what I'll do. The anime shows a fairly dark grey with a purple cast to it, and I'm not sure I like that. I'm going for something that looks believable. Maybe the anime colours would be but I'm not going to be convinced till I actually see it!

[mickyg]

I think I may have found something that will work for super parts colours. It's the colour listed on the box but lots more grey and a touch of tire black. Actually, the box shows "dark grey" and by adding tire black, I probably made the same colour.

I experimented with just adding grey to the darker blue from the main model, but that was so close to what I did yesterday that it might as well have been the same colour.

Pics (the first with crappy LED flash, the second without):

You can just make out the colour difference between the blue-greys in that bottom panel with the three thrusters. The middle portion is the new purple-grey, and the second half is just the new purple-grey (with the original purple so you can see the difference). Again, all the parts will be one colour eventually.

Colour mixing guide:

Violet: 4 parts

Purple: 1 part

Neutral Grey: 4 parts

Tire Black: 1 part

[honkhet]

ok, now i get that you want to paint the entire booster in the same color,

firstly i thought u only wanted to paint the booster "pockets" in blue ala TV super max VF-1J

as for the latest mix you have, i still dont think it would go well with the blue valk...

perhaps a dark grey would be better

still, if you could show us a pic with a booster on one of the blue wings we can make a better judgement

as in the end, we want them both (wing/valk and booster) to look good together

[mickyg]

I know what you mean. I put the two together yesterday for that reason (some blue parts). But it won't look right till I have it mounted on the wing. And I can't do that while the wing's all taped up for painting. So I'll need to get that second, darker contrast coat on the wing/back parts before I can get another picture up.

[mickyg]

I stole my wife's camera and brought it to work this morning so I could get some decent pics of this pesky super parts colour. Hopefully she doesn't need it today!

So here are two pics that show a few things. Firstly, some blue sprue for contrast, a few body parts that will be close to the boosters (along with all the masking...) and perhaps most important, some of the grey sprue (with intake covers) to give an idea of how close this "custom" colour is to the grey in the kit. There's a hint more purple going on here but not much. I think the colour will look even better once I put a matt clear over it. If you hadn't noticed, I think I'm 90% ready to choose this as my final colour for the super parts.

Here's some comparison shots of what's in the anime (best I could find in my stash):

And what I'm up against in terms of realism (from yahoo japan - these have been floating around these forums a fair bit):

I absolutely love this guy's work, but in my opinion, the super parts are too blue for what I'm going for.

And finally, the finished pics of the sniper rifle, completely flat coated now. I gave up on dry brushing (for now). Still, I'm pretty happy with it.

Edited August 27, 2009 by mickyg

[honkhet]

yup i agree, this is the color u are looking for!

[mickyg]

Some progress with the darker blue panels on the top of the model tonight. I found a mixture that was just dark enough but I'm not sure how it'll look once I get a semigloss top coat on it at the end. I could end up losing any differentiation. I also had some issues with the amount of paint I let flow and the pressure, resulting in some pebbling before I got it right. I don't think I care enough to do it over though.

Anyway, here's some pics:

Before I forget, it's one part dark blue to two parts regular. Those are model colours, not generic terms. So refer to the parts around the nose area for the "regular" and "dark" I'm referring to.

Edited August 28, 2009 by mickyg

[wm cheng]

If it gets too close after the clear coat at the end, you could alter the clear coat too - so the darker parts gets a semi-gloss and the lighter parts gets a flat matte - its amazing what the clear coat finish can do to alter the colour beneath them. Take a look at my Yukikaze Mave thread, those greens were done with varying shades of clear-coat finish. The glossier finishes tend to darken (makes the finish look wet) the colour and the flatter matte finishes tend to lighten the colour beneath.

Looking good!

[Lolicon]

Looking great so far. I really like the two tone main fuselage. Ah, if only I wasn't so lazy...

Got a question. For the Super parts, were you trying to color match the anime or studio model, or are you just tinkering around with colors until you find one you're happy with? There's no wrong way to do it, I was just wondering what your intent was.

Terrified of using masking tape over any surface with decals, even with clearcoat over it. I've ripped off decals with tape before.

I don't think a good semi-gloss clearcoat will affect your final colors so much that the differences in the shades of blue will be lost. Right now the difference is pretty harsh due to them being different finishes.

[mickyg]

If it gets too close after the clear coat at the end, you could alter the clear coat too - so the darker parts gets a semi-gloss and the lighter parts gets a flat matte - its amazing what the clear coat finish can do to alter the colour beneath them. Take a look at my Yukikaze Mave thread, those greens were done with varying shades of clear-coat finish. The glossier finishes tend to darken (makes the finish look wet) the colour and the flatter matte finishes tend to lighten the colour beneath.

Looking good!

Thanks!

I saw that effect on your YF-21 build too. Loved the end result but I'm not sure if I've got the patience to remask the whole thing after I finish! I'll have to cross that bridge when I get to it, I guess.

I hope you saw all your "fingerprints" on this stage of the build! Inspired completely by your 25F build. And don't worry, if it turns out crappy, I won't blame you. ; )

Looking great so far. I really like the two tone main fuselage. Ah, if only I wasn't so lazy...

Got a question. For the Super parts, were you trying to color match the anime or studio model, or are you just tinkering around with colors until you find one you're happy with? There's no wrong way to do it, I was just wondering what your intent was.

Terrified of using masking tape over any surface with decals, even with clearcoat over it. I've ripped off decals with tape before.

I don't think a good semi-gloss clearcoat will affect your final colors so much that the differences in the shades of blue will be lost. Right now the difference is pretty harsh due to them being different finishes.

Thanks Lolicon! I know what you mean by lazy. I actually had fun masking it but I'm pretty sure I don't want to do it again! It's tedious and if you slip while trimming the tape, you've gouged your precious work. Luckily that didn't happen to me - sharp knife and deep panel lines helped a lot.

To answer your super parts colour question - I'm trying to match the anime mostly but also want some sort of colour combination that looks good and isn't to starkly contrasting. As for the "studio model" you're referring to, I didn't know one existed! Do tell.

What did you mean by masking over clear coated decals? I'm trying to think of a point on this that I'd have to do that and am coming up blank. Are you meaning the application of different types of clear coat?

I agree on the semi-gloss. I'm hoping that since all the main aircraft will be semi-gloss, regardless of colour that any darkening/lightening will be uniform. However, given PetarB's comanche build and what a gloss, then matt did to his meticulous camo pattern, I could be surprised! And as for the harsh difference, that's mostly due to the way I sprayed the lighter and darker blues. The lighter one was a fine mist that probably dried too quickly, giving it an almost flat finish. The darker blue I sprayed on thicker and it went glossy as a result. Both are made up entirely of gloss paints so they should have looked the same in terms of sheen. Still, the lighter will likely darken up once the clear coat brings the glossy-ness to a more uniform level.

I'm rambling again, aren't I?

Edited August 29, 2009 by mickyg

[Lolicon]

Hehehehe I understand completely. I got tired of masking anything right around the second set of tailfins.

When I said 'studio model' I was just referring to the pictures on the box and in the manual. The one allegedly built by a professional modeler that's often inaccurate.

Yeah I meant trying to mask over everything again to apply two different types of clearcoat finishes, after you're done painting and have applied all the decals. The color tone difference is harsh because the darker paint is glossy and the lighter paint has a flat appearance, and it ought to look pretty good once it's all coated in the same finish. Unless you plan on masking it all again to do two different finishes.

On the blue paints, are you just applying a single thick coat or multiple thin coats?

[mickyg]

A bit of both, actually. On the lighter blue, I sprayed 4 or 5 very light coats but all in the course of about 5 minutes. The darker blue, I did 3 very light coats, noticed it was probably drying before it hit the surface, then adjusted the flow to give me more paint and did about 2 more quick coats.

I've got a Pasche VL dual action airbrush and I'm still learning how to use it and how to set it up consistently each time. It's not necessarily a steep learning curve but it seems it's different each time I use it.

[mickyg]

Ok, I know it's been said numerous times already but man, do these decals suck! I decided to start decaling the wings and bits I've just painted, as I want to get the panel lining done before I put the clearcoat on. My reasoning is that the paint was a bit thick and I'm afraid I'll lose the panel details if I clearcoat first. So I set to work on trimming the decals exactly on the colour demarcation lines, rather than roughly cutting them out and letting the carrier film potentially show up. This went really well. After that, it was all pain!

Firstly, the decals for the wings aren't really shaped properly to follow the panel lines - for the leading edge of the wing at least. No matter, I'll just slightly bend the decal to make it work. Bzzzt!!! Wrong! These decals are weird. They remind me of vinyl and they don't bend without some sort of decal softener. No problem, I'll use Mr Mark Softer. that actually worked a lot better than I'd hoped and I didn't have the beading problems that Lolicon did in his Armored build. But I used a lot of it.

I should point out now that I didn't even think about chemical composition of the decal softener. It became apparent only after I'd liberally applied it and was starting to massage the decal into position that I started thinking "hey, what's this blue that's showing up on the white decal?" Yes folks, Mr Mark Softer and likely a lot of other softeners desolves acrylic paints!

It wasn't terrible and not like it completely ate through the paints and made a horrible mess, but it does seem to desolve the top layer of paint and had I noticed this with the first decal (on the inside of the wing root pointy thing) I could have saved myself some grief on the white wing decal. Oh well, you live and learn. My advice, use the softener sparingly so it just goes on the decal and doesn't run onto the paint. This probably sounds more difficult than it is. Just use the edge of the supplied brush and sparingly apply it.

Oh, and did I mention the colour innaccuracies? Yeah, the dark, dark blue in the instructions is, well, it's purple. Not happy about this either. I think I mentioned I was going to paint these instead of decaling. Perhaps, that would have been the best option, after all...

PICS:

Just after cutting - showing the way the decal doesn't fit the panel lines:

And various stages of placement:

Last one shows the trailing edge line and it's not dry or settled down yet. But you can see the PURPLE!

[mickyg]

More fun with decals!

I've discovered a few things that will hopefully prevent anyone reading this from a bit of frustration. Firstly, Mr Mark Softer works. It works really well, as long as you follow a few guidelines that I only figured out through trial and error.

1. This stuff definitely softens even the thick bandai decals
2. it makes decals conform but not when the decal has to fold to fit a wierd shape (the fold on the knee pieces, near the bottom, for example)
3. The tailfin trailing antenna area was impossible for me to get the decal to conform to. No matter how much of the softener I used.
4. And most importanly, if you leave the solvent on the decal in a wet state, it will dry but deposit melted bits of decal to the surface, or simply leave them underneath, creating an ugly mark on the decal. Solution - let it soak in for a minute or two tops, then dab it off with a damp cloth or cotton bud.
5. Also important - this stuff will disolve acrylic paints, so again, don't let it soak into the surrounding paint for too long.

I attempted to use the tailfin decal (the white top and trailing edge one) as an experiment. I'd heard they were awful and just wanted to see what everyone was talking about. Yes, they suck, badly. The don't meet at either the leading or trailing edges, where the two are supposed to meet. And even if they did, they're just transparent enough that you'd likely end up with a whiter line where they met or overlapped. Instead, you get a dark line where they don't meet. The trailing antenna was a complete joke. There's just nowhere near enough material to fully cover that part. I shudder to think of what it would be like to use the stickers on this part!

In the end, I scratched the decal off with my fingernail. Since I didn't paint the darker blue on the fins, this has left no scratches or marks on the bare plastic underneath.

I again experimented on the knee decals and they're actually not too bad. Acceptable enough that I think I'll use them instead of painting these areas. The before mentioned cut out in the decal that's supposed to allow it to conform to the sharper edge of the bottom part of the knee required a little extra persuasion but that was no big deal (softener, then just pushing the area down with the handle of a paint brush, to gently roll it down). This is also an area where I learned how the softener can melt the decal though, and you'll see in the pics that there are a few holes where the blue is visible. I'm guessing the white just melted away in these spots.

And finally, I've put an oil wash onto everything. Unfortunately, the gloss acrylic shows the smudges up quite a bit after wiping the wash away. It looks like a nice postshade effect if you're looking directly at it and can't see the surrounding gloss. To fix the smudging and fingerprints, I bought some Tamiya Finish polishing compound. It worked great!

Pics (I'll add more soon):