The Ohnogi Question

[bustaf]

Well, first of all, I am a user of Macross Generation, and I think the majority is to be prudent, we have not crucified Gubaba is more, we believe it is a great contribution to the community, but we are the first prudent and rational in all this.

Best regards and hope to continue here, and I hope that my English (which is somewhat rusty) is legible.

Greetings

[Gubaba]

Well, first of all, I am a user of Macross Generation, and I think the majority is to be prudent, we have not crucified Gubaba is more, we believe it is a great contribution to the community, but we are the first prudent and rational in all this.

Best regards and hope to continue here, and I hope that my English (which is somewhat rusty) is legible.

Greetings

Your English is perfectly fine.

And thank you.

[Fuun]

Neh I don't think your reputation was damaged in any way, it's just that all of a sudden a totally unknown guy for them (in this case, you ), comes and starts questioning A LOT of what they considered, at that point, veridical facts. But the "shocking" factor was the involvement of Shaloom on it.

That's why they refuse to accept it right now, just give'em some time (at least that's what i hope).

[Lindem Herz]

As the guy who translated the Ohnogi essay into Spanish for Gubaba to post at Macross Generation, I've also translated the Shaloom answer into English for him as soon as I knew about it. I'm going to post it here too, as Gubaba suggested, "for the sake of records, and so no one can say we didn't give Shaloom a fair shake." Since this was a quick and dirty guerrilla translation, I ask all Spanish speaking MWers who find anything wrong with it to comment about it.

Well, here I am.

There are many things to be said, and many things to be explained.

Even though by the 3 threads I’ve read I see that many have already judged me, made their own conclusions, and determined attitudes due to my presence in other channels: Twitter, youtube, other forums I frequent, etc.

First fact. I decided not to come to MG in the last 3 weeks.

Why? Because I decided to prioritize other things.

I’ve invested money in other forums and projects that demanded the attention of my short free time. And, under my own criteria, I’ve decided to tend those sites before coming here.

Just on Saturday I took notice of the huge snowball rolling here. So I decided to copy all your posts and I’ve read them the whole weekend.

In these 3 weeks I haven’t logged on MG nor MSN [translator note: Windows Live Messenger, IM system similar to AIM, popular to the point of ubiquity in Latin America]; I decided to shut off the last one by the recommendation of my boss at the office, and, for the ones who know me, I’m not very prone to connect on the evenings unless I was working in my PC (due to MSN logging in automatically [when I turn the PC on]).

Secondly, as the staff has known for more than a month and a half (but you didn’t), I am starting a new major. Not a Master’s Degree, not a Certification, an entirely new major. And my schedule has became tighter. I try not to turn on my computer at night because I want to sleep at least 8 hours. Of which, on a good day, I get 6 thanks to my work, school, research, etc. schedule.

If I play xbox live, it has been on Friday nights, which I’ve been doing for... 5 years. Actually, I’ve mentioned it on the forum many times, and many forum members have added me to their gamertag lists. By the way, I played with the member ‘goca’ last Friday, and he didn’t tell me anything about this issue. I guess that, as many members of the forum, ‘goca’ hasn’t come here in months. So, also he didn’t know about this issue.

The third point. About my twitter, yes, I made it private... I made it private because at my work they were “checking it out” (and I will keep it like that). As the lurkers that read it know, I wrote (among chats and fun things) work related stuff. That upset my superiors. That was a mistake on my part because I didn’t know that the nickname was known by the people at my work, or that people at work used twitter (I guess that writing my name next to my nickname didn’t help). But if many think that I made it private to “hide,” well, that’s your belief. I just received friends request from rickhunter21 and I authorized him to read my Twitter. I invite Iker to befriend me if he is interested in knowing what I do, as well as all the MG members that use this tool.

I applaud Iker’s and bauhaus 45’s opinions, but I don’t share them. With this I don’t mean to say that I disapprove them. I applaud them because I would have done the same, but I’d have done a little more. I would have call their cell or home phones and talked about it. I wouldn’t have written my opinion on a forum if I hadn’t talked to them in 3 weeks, specially when they even know my house. They have been there, and as Mexicans say, “we have drunk together,” equivalent to “we know everything about you.” When I was reading the posts this weekend, I thought that both had had the cold head to establish personal priorities apart from the things that are said in a forum, but after reading their opinions, well I don’t know what to think anymore.

Having that personal communication channel, I would have liked to know their opinions, or at least get phone calls, if this was growing rapidly (“Hey, you ****head, show up in the forum!”) But that didn’t happen. They know where I live, know where [t.n.: it should be “when” instead of “where”] I speak, and if I don’t sign on MSN is for a reason. In this moment, signed on MSN (exceptionally, and abusing the absence of my boss) I have no communication with them. Not even a hello. I can say that I feel personally disappointed with them. But I applaud their professional action in the website and the way they are handling this issue. I reiterate, I would have done the same, although I’d have done a little more.

If you feel betrayed, iker, I’m sorry. I ignore why you take it to that level the fact being that you have the door open at my house to ask me directly and find out what could happen. I could today mark many reasons why I also feel betrayed. But I leave this forum apart, being it a virtual environment, from the person who you are; and I thus prefer to preserve the person who you are away from here. After all, the experiences we have lived pay me a million times more and better than what you have done in this forum. Because even after that outburst, I consider my dear good friend, you know it, as well as hector, erick (who called me and knows even a little more than what I say in this topic) and other friends who minded enough to call me or visit me to ask why I was not in MSN (Jorge Pratt for example).

In this moment I’m not an admin nor moderator (maybe they thought I’d erase messages all over the place, or I’d ban everybody in the forum), there are more than 500 PMs that I have to go over and I cannot read them until I clear my inbox. I’ve seen that users have sent me PMs asking about forum support; I ask them to sent these questions to Bauhaus or Iker, who have the power to help you. I don’t know if I’ll get that status back. That is their decision, and yours, MG community.

As why I didn’t come, I’ve explained it already. Reading emails I see also that many people assume I should live chained to the forum. I hope you know that at least in this moment it is impossible for me to visit the forum like I used to.

About the insults and labels I’ve been given, well, I can’t do anything more. I know that this nickname has existed for more than 10 years, that there are people who hate me, people who wishes me bad, or people who can’t even stand me. That I cannot avoid. Being away allows me to see who are those who thing like that or those who change their mind quickly about other people. There are many things that happen away from here with me and they have no idea of that. Sometimes one has to make choices, and I took the choice to be away from here to focus on other issues and allocate my short free time to something else.

I’m guilty of not making a notice. That’s it.

About Ohnogi:

I could write a mountain of why I write these things. I wrote them because I believe them, because I listened to those web recordings and because I translated it without making sure of things basing myself on my memory (like erroneously thinking that he had written Macross Plus). Actually, I’ve wanted to make a new revision of things about the episodes, but I haven’t have time. Mea culpa.

My mistake was publishing MYSELF the info, although if you go back and read my comments and the comments of everybody else, we always speculated and proved those speculations (which doesn’t mean that is Oficial). Many people asked me to publish them on the web portal and make them available as PDFs. I always denied these petitions (and many users should check their PM), the reason why being the necessity to OFFICIALLY verify them in external publications.

Many know that I stopped buying printed material, stopped buying Macross Chronicle, and haven’t even bought the novels because of the import fees. I have even said that many times in the forum, I didn’t know why the name of the script writers was not published.

My fault is publishing things without a solid base and not maintain the perspective of what is official and what is speculation. I had already communicated 3 times with people from Macross World (not Gubaba, but other members) telling them exactly that, that were write ups for the community and that I expected to verify information before publishing them on the portal. I’ve even told Bau by MSN that they asked me about the material so it could be added to the Macross wiki. I denied releasing it (again) just because I wanted to do the revision of it myself.

In the web portal (not in the forum, and I say that for the doubtful) everything that is published has a physical source and that’s why we have the ISBNs, catalogue numbers so you can buy them and see/translate the sources. There is people who take this chance to ventilate their frustrations about me and, by the way, about the website (that’s why I congratulate bau and iker’s attitudes, because there is WORK from then published them, as well as Axel Vant’s). Macross Frontier has no published section because there is no material from me to make an analysis at the same level as the other titles. There is also a laziness and time mismanagement issue, I’ve only finished the summaries of the episodes. But there is no production information nor anything else because I, right now, have no money to buy material, and because of that, I withheld its publishing.

To Gubaba (a tremendous Macross fan), I say to him I appreciate his presence here and I’m sorry for the amount of time he lost by following/translating this information. I, in the personal level, admire him a lot because from that old Macross World he took the job of broadcasting information to the community. And many of my years as a fan and the way I broadcast the information myself is similar to his methods. I’m very sorry.

That’s the actual state of things. It is impossible to negate that people already passed judgement, called me traitor, mythomaniac, egocentric, liar. I guess that in other forums there are threads dedicated to me, this cannot be changed. I’m not going to talk about my achievements before the Ohnogi issue, after all, we people tend to have short memory, and in this moment MG’s achievements are not mine, but from a group of people who have been able to go on without me being with them.

I’m neither trying to negate what cannot be negated and believe that with a single post I can revert this. The only thing I can say is that I thank the people for all their messages, positive or negative. Filled with hatred or mockings. Maybe today I made a mistake and allowed this to grow to levels it should have had. But I also have to go on. I founded this website, and with the years it became the home of all of you, and I will do whatever I can to ensure this house keeps on growing, out of my own pockets so it will go on, and keeping it open even if it is to speak about its founder.

What can I do? The only thing I can do now is ask all of you and every single one of you to forgive me for the time you lost in this issue. I can’t do more. I also take this opportunity to apologize to everybody who believe I am a traitor, a mythomaniac, an egocentric, and even an “assh*le.” I hope this thread helps you take out everything you feel about me, and keep it about me, because MG is more than me.

I only started it, but this would never be the same it is without you, old or new members. If I’m not here anymore, this place will grow and keep on growing. Believing me or not from this day on.

Omar peimbert - Shaloom

PS. About the fansub, I’ll explain it on the thread about it.

[stray]

Doh I TL'ed it for Animesuki, and was about to post here, from what I can tell that's pretty much fine Lindem.

[Gubaba]

Doh I TL'ed it for Animesuki, and was about to post here, from what I can tell that's pretty much fine Lindem.

Too bad Kawamori interviews don't get this kind of attention!

[stray]

Too bad Kawamori interviews don't get this kind of attention!

Hey, I did actually TL one of Shaloom's earlier works... In hindsight, maybe a bad idea.

Either way, it seems like he's trying to do right by the MG community, if not the fandom as a whole. Damn, I haven't been around here for a while either way.

[Fuun]

The translation is great, no complaints about it from here

Personally i found Shaloom's reply as a big bunch of excuses and personal issues with other members that nobody cares about, no real explanation of why he lied and altered the information of Ohnogi and all the liner notes.

But well, that's pretty much everything he's gonna say, so I think this is it, now knowing for sure that Gubaba was right.

[DeX-kun]

Alright everyone, I translated the most important part of the post which is everything after he says "Sobre lo de Ohnogi," which roughly translates to "About Ohnogi." Sorry I took so long but I just wanted to make sure things were in order and I was also juggling between a paper that's due

This post really did annoy me, mainly because he avoided the issue completely and kept making excuses rather then try and provide us with some solid evidence in which he never did. His explanation was weak and still doesn't excuse him for the false information.

Just a quick summary about the beginning which is just hot air considering all he talks about is how disappointed and disheartened he feels about Iker and Bau (other MG members and mods I believe) because they don't believe in him and how they didn't try hard enough to contact him in order to get his side of the story. Shaloom also pulls out the "we've even had drinks together" card and plays the sympathy role. Oh please, Shaloom is still in denial about how he was exposed and I for one won't forgive him at all for the fallacies he has spread.

Well enough of my rant and let's get to the good stuff, here's my translation of Shalooms response to Gubaba's great exposition (My translation is about 96% accurate aside from some typos and phrases unique to the Spanish language.) Also, whatever is in brackets and in red are my little side comments:

About Ohnogi,

I can write many reasons why I write these things. I wrote it because I believed it considering I listened to those web recordings, because I translated it without checking things based on my memory (and erroneously thought that he had written Macross Plus). In fact I wanted to make a new revision of the episodes and stuff, but I did not have time. My fault.

My mistake was that I published the info although if you go back and read my comments and the comments of others, we have always speculated and checked those speculations. (not to say that it's official) Many people have asked me to publish it on the portal [Portal refers to the front page of the site, not the forums.] and download PDF. I always refused (and multiple users should review their PM's) the reason I decided to omit this information was because it needed to be checked officially in the publications.

Many know that I've stopped buying printed materials, I suspended the purchase of Macross Chronicle and I have not even bought the novels for the cost of importation. Even I said several times on the forum, ignore the reason why the screenwriter's names weren't published.

My biggest fault is publishing things without a solid foundation and not being able to maintain my perspective of the official and speculated. I've already received 3 messages from people at Macross World (not Gubaba but other users) and I told them the same thing, that they were written for the community and the information was waiting to be checked in order to post it on the portal [Again, Portal refers to the front page of the site, not the forums.]. Actually, I was able to contact Bau via MSN who asked about the material for Macross Wiki. In which I refused (again) precisely because I wanted to make revisions of the same info.

In the portal (not in the forum for those that are doubting) everything that is published, it's physically possessed and that's why we manage the ISBN, catalog numbers for those that purchase and look/translate the source. Some people used this to take their frustrations out on me and took advantage of doing the same to the portal (this is where I applaud the attitude of bau and iker because they've published works there, as well as Axel Vant). Macross Frontier does not have their section published because there is no material on my part to make an analysis at the level of the other titles. Also because of my own laziness and bad time management, I have only finished the reviews for each episode. but there is no information regarding production or other information material because I don't have money at the moment to buy the material therefore, I've stalled it's publication.

To Gubaba (a huge fan of Macross), I would say that I appreciate your presence here and I am very sorry that he lost time to be following/translating this information. I personally admire him very much because since the old Macrossworld, he decided to be responsible for disseminating information to the community. And much of my years as a fan and how I disseminate the information is based on your methods. I'm very sorry.

And as things stand today. It is undeniable that people have already made their judgments, and they called me a traitor, mythomaniac, egocentric, liar, I suppose that in other forums they will have topics dedicated to me, and this can not be changed. I will not mention my achievements before Ohnogi [he's avoiding the point of Gubaba's exposition], in the end, people usually have short-term memory, and by this time the achievements of MG are not mine but a group of people that have managed to continue without me.

I can not try to hide the sun with a finger [I'm sorry but this made me laugh, I don't know who he's trying to impress] and believe that one post can reverse what has transcended. All I can say is thanks to the people for the messages, whether bad or good. Whether they're full of hatred or ridicule. Maybe today I made an error and let it grow to levels that it shouldn't have. But I also must continue, I founded this place and after years, it has become home to all of you and I will do what I can from my part in order for this house to continue growing, putting in money from my pocket so it can continue even if it means talking about it's founder.

What can I do? All I can do at this moment is ask everyone and every single one for forgiveness because of the time wasted on this case. I can not do more. I would also like to apologize to each person who believes that I am a traitor, a mythomaniac, an egocentric person and even a "p.3ndejo" [A phrase in Spanish that has no literal translation but could mean someone who's a Jerk to put it nicely since it's a profane and offensive word]. I hope this topic will help people vent out everything about my persona, because MG is bigger than me. [Are you serious? No Joker-pun intended. I mean seriously, talk about avoiding the subject matter]

I alone founded this, but this will never be what it is without you, old or new users. If I'm not here, this place will grow and continue to grow. Believing in me from today or not. [Oh c'mon, who's the real victim here? Those that were fooled by your fabricated information.]

Omar Peimbert - Shaloom

PS - About the fansubs, I will explain it on it's respective topic.

Edited June 30, 2009 by DeX-kun

[dreamweaver13]

Thanks guys for the translations.

well, that's about as much an admission as we'll ever get from him. i'm not at all surprised, and it's actually what i thought his reply would be. it's not as if he would come out and say that "i made it all up!"

funny how he made a big deal of how the issue could have been put to rest earlier if his "friends" had contacted him directly, when he doesnt' really resolve it at all, in the end.

so what else can i say, but...

[-Snowblind-]

He's playing the martyr now. Poor Shaloom. So misunderstood....

[nexxstrait]

a mitomano [Again, this phrase is difficult to translate for me tongue.gif]

That means mythomaniac

I'll simply add once again that the work of Gubaba (and the others involved in the investigation) has been astonishing. I also think this "incident" has produced a great opportunity to build a bridge with the great MG community. A that's a good thing.

[Mr March]

Shaloom's reply is very unfortunate, if not unexpected. That reply feels like an attempt at playing the victim, courting sympathy as a martyr and relying upon his questionable reputation to defend what is, by his own admission, a series of falsehoods. I will say one thing that is absolutely for certain: Shaloom's reply is not the reply of an innocent man. An innocent man would have explained himself, accepted responsibility and let the chips fall where they may. If Shaloom had explained himself honestly and humbly, I would have accepted his apology. Admittedly, I would have still blamed him for misleading others (intentionally or innocently) and I would have expected Shaloom to repair the shameful damage done by posting retractions on AnimeSuki and MW. If Shaloom had accepted responsibility and made an effort at reconciliation, I would have accepted his reparations and defended his efforts to make things right.

However, this reply from Shaloom is not a reconciliation, it's an excuse. Shaloom has offered insufficient explanation for factual errors far too numerous to be expected from a Macross fan of his knowledge. More important than that, Shaloom did not even try to explain why there was so much completely manufactured fiction from no verifiable source. Shaloom has replied in such a way as to imply blame upon anyone expecting the unrealistic of Shaloom's "memory." That's not an explanation or an acceptance of responsibility; that's an attempt to manufacture "plausible denial."

Digressing, official, verifiable facts are on the side of Gubaba. Shaloom's answer has only made the situation worse and the only verifiable truth in his reply is his own admitted indiscretion. If he chooses to avoid responsibility, he'll have to live with the consequences of public opinion. No doubt, anyone questioning his explanation will be blamed, if such discussion is even permitted on the MG forums anymore. I suspect such discussion is not allowed. The tone clearly being taken is that this matter is being closed by Shaloom in spite of his questionable "explanation."

To Gubaba, you were always fighting a losing battle on MG, a website that runs at the mercy of Shaloom's character. Even under those unfavourable circumstances, you've done well, Gubaba. The truth is out there, the lies have been exposed and Shaloom's poor explanation is now written in stone three weeks after the fact. Perhaps some MG members will ignore you or marginalize your contribution. But there will always be those who saw through Shaloom's scam and don't accept his excuses. If even one person re-evaluates Shaloom, your effort was worth it. From the sounds of things, you've got more than just one person on your side, so I'd be proud if I were you. And I suppose we have to thank a few in the MG community for having the presence of mind to realize when Shaloom fooled them and the courage to stand behind Gubaba.

I will also say this; the MG community has it's work cut out for them. Shaloom is clearly not accepting responsibility for his actions and he's gained no discipline because no one is forcing him to accept that responsibility. This means a situation like the Ohnogi controversy could easily happen again. Perhaps Shaloom has been shamed enough that he'll either avoid falsehoods like this again or he'll be much more clever manufacturing his falsehoods in the future. Either way, I recommend vigilance on behalf of the MG community and all Macross fan communities. I hope for the best for the Macross Generation community.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Mr March

[DeX-kun]

That means mythomaniac

I'll simply add once again that the work of Gubaba (and the others involved in the investigation) has been astonishing. I also think this "incident" has produced a great opportunity to build a bridge with the great MG community. A that's a good thing.

Alright, thanks for letting me know, I'll edit my post then.

Website

Pseudologia fantastica, mythomania, or pathological lying

I know he is avoiding saying something as simple as "sorry" "my mistake" i never check anything...etc., let me check the topic on MG the pm, my regular job and i will come back asap..

Thanks , I understood it now. I was confused when I read the word but mythomaniac fits the bill here.

Edited June 30, 2009 by DeX-kun

[iker]

[i'm not exactly sure what the "portal" is]

Website

[this is a phrase in Spanish is difficult to translate into English]

Pseudologia fantastica, mythomania, or pathological lying

I know he is avoiding saying something as simple as "sorry" "my mistake" i never check anything...etc., let me check the topic on MG the pm, my regular job and i will come back asap..

[cool8or]

Hello everybody.

You know, I'm not a Hardcore Fan, I'm just a model kit builder. I don't know too much about Macross information, continuity, etc. But I'm very sad about this situation, because I'm a MG user also. There are too much good users there, who feels terrible with this situation.

Thanks to Gubaba, who exposed this issue as a perfect Gentleman.

Long life to Macross, MW & MG!

Edited June 30, 2009 by cool8or

[Bri]

I'm not sure if it was realistic to expect a public apology or admission of guilt, but this seems like an attempt at damage control. Even with his reputation damaged, a fan who can translate material, is still in demand. It's unfortunate that this kind of disinformation can get out of hand due to the language barrier.

[dreamweaver13]

Shaloom's reply is very unfortunate, if not unexpected. That reply feels like an attempt at playing the victim, courting sympathy as a martyr and relying upon his questionable reputation to defend what is, by his own admission, a series of falsehoods. I will say one thing that is absolutely for certain: Shaloom's reply is not the reply of an innocent man. An innocent man would have explained himself, accepted responsibility and let the chips fall where they may. If Shaloom had explained himself honestly and humbly, I would have accepted his apology. Admittedly, I would have still blamed him for misleading others (intentionally or innocently) and I would have expected Shaloom to repair the shameful damage done by posting retractions on AnimeSuki and MW. If Shaloom had accepted responsibility and made an effort at reconciliation, I would have accepted his reparations and defended his efforts to make things right.

However, this reply from Shaloom is not a reconciliation, it's an excuse. Shaloom has offered insufficient explanation for factual errors far too numerous to be expected from a Macross fan of his knowledge. More important than that, Shaloom did not even try to explain why there was so much completely manufactured fiction from no verifiable source. Shaloom has replied in such a way as to imply blame upon anyone expecting the unrealistic of Shaloom's "memory." That's not an explanation or an acceptance of responsibility; that's an attempt to manufacture "plausible denial."

Digressing, official, verifiable facts are on the side of Gubaba. Shaloom's answer has only made the situation worse and the only verifiable truth in his reply is his own admitted indiscretion. If he chooses to avoid responsibility, he'll have to live with the consequences of public opinion. No doubt, anyone questioning his explanation will be blamed, if such discussion is even permitted on the MG forums anymore. I suspect such discussion is not allowed. The tone clearly being taken is that this matter is being closed by Shaloom in spite of his questionable "explanation."

To Gubaba, you were always fighting a losing battle on MG, a website that runs at the mercy of Shaloom's character. Even under those unfavourable circumstances, you've done well, Gubaba. The truth is out there, the lies have been exposed and Shaloom's poor explanation is now written in stone three weeks after the fact. Perhaps some MG members will ignore you or marginalize your contribution. But there will always be those who saw through Shaloom's scam and don't accept his excuses. If even one person re-evaluates Shaloom, your effort was worth it. From the sounds of things, you've got more than just one person on your side, so I'd be proud if I were you. And I suppose we have to thank a few in the MG community for having the presence of mind to realize when Shaloom fooled them and the courage to stand behind Gubaba.

I will also say this; the MG community has it's work cut out for them. Shaloom is clearly not accepting responsibility for his actions and he's gained no discipline because no one is forcing him to accept that responsibility. This means a situation like the Ohnogi controversy could easily happen again. Perhaps Shaloom has been shamed enough that he'll either avoid falsehoods like this again or he'll be much more clever manufacturing his falsehoods in the future. Either way, I recommend vigilance on behalf of the MG community and all Macross fan communities. I hope for the best for the Macross Generation community.

well said. +1.

[Gubaba]

However, this reply from Shaloom is not a reconciliation, it's an excuse. Shaloom has offered insufficient explanation for factual errors far too numerous to be expected from a Macross fan of his knowledge. More important than that, Shaloom did not even try to explain why there was so much completely manufactured fiction from no verifiable source. Shaloom has replied in such a way as to imply blame upon anyone expecting the unrealistic of Shaloom's "memory." That's not an explanation or an acceptance of responsibility; that's an attempt to manufacture "plausible denial."

I don't think it holds up. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but why, for example, would "Bobby" even interview Ohnogi about Frontier if Ohnogi had no connection to the show? And if even that basic fact is wrong, what are we left with?

To Gubaba, you were always fighting a losing battle on MG, a website that runs at the mercy of Shaloom's character. Even under those unfavourable circumstances, you've done well, Gubaba. The truth is out there, the lies have been exposed and Shaloom's poor explanation is now written in stone three weeks after the fact. Perhaps some MG members will ignore you or marginalize your contribution. But there will always be those who saw through Shaloom's scam and don't accept his excuses. If even one person re-evaluates Shaloom, your effort was worth it. From the sounds of things, you've got more than just one person on your side, so I'd be proud if I were you. And I suppose we have to thank a few in the MG community for having the presence of mind to realize when Shaloom fooled them and the courage to stand behind Gubaba.

It's not as bleak as all that. Shaloom is no longer a moderator there, just a simple member.

And hey, either way, I got what I wanted: confirmation that Ohnogi did NOT work on Frontier.

And...well, I don't want to come off as callous and unsympathetic there, so please bear in mind that I have really grown to like a lot of the people at Macross Generation, and I'm willing to help them however I can (and I hope everybody who reads this will do the same), but...

...while Shalom's innocence or guilt it's understandably a matter of vital importance to Macross Generation, for the fandom at large, I think the problem is solved. It matters not a whit to the people at MacrossWorld or AnimeSuki or MyAnimeList whether Shaloom is lying or is simply mistaken. The fact remains that his information is unreliable, and came without clear warnings of its unreliability.

He may still have some bit of information to exonerate him, but still: HE IS AN UNRELIABLE SOURCE.

No matter what happens next, that will never be in dispute.

[Xeros]

Case closed then????

[Gubaba]

Case closed then????

For what I set out to find? Yes.

For all the little detailed questions I have? Not yet.

But maybe soon...Shaloom is posting as I type this.

[mxhz]

For what I set out to find? Yes.

For all the little detailed questions I have? Not yet.

But maybe soon...Shaloom is posting as I type this.

Nothing is closed.

The only question that has already been answered is about "where was shaloom?".

In the MG Forum there are some users that are agree that the Shaloom's answer isn't enough about the Ohnogi theme.

Now this is near to be closed, but we need some other answers, as you also may want.

[Fuun]

Well Shaloom answered again in Mg, this time clearly saying that all the info involved in this issue, is false because he doesn't have any way to prove it.

Even though Gubaba confirmed that nobody heard the infamous audio radios, that the Famitsu interview was greatly altered and a big etcetera, I guess this is it. From his explanation, he says he didn't do it to deceive or make fun of everybody...

He even mention this:

"Until I cannot prove it, through calls, investigation, interviews, printed material, the information is false. Or a rumour if you didn't like that label."

Implying and insisting he listened/saw all about he wrote previosly, but being unable to prove it, well...

So I guess this is it.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Fuun

[Gubaba]

Well Shaloom answered again in Mg, this time clearly saying that all the info involved in this issue, is false because he doesn't have any way to prove it.

So I guess this is it.

Only because he has no way to prove it? Not because he made it up?

Man, getting this guy to be honest is like getting blood from a stone...

Oh well...the result is the same. It's not true.

[Fuun]

Haha yeah you caught me editing my previous post, but I came to the same conclusion

And when the translation is ready, you'll see he's talking about his time managing AGAIN, in response to the link you left there previosly, the one about his activity in some other games webpage or something.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Fuun

[mxhz]

Well, all its FAKE/FALSE.

I think that if you want something else like "I made it from my mind" or "I made this to fans"..is ask too much.

At least... he said its false, anything else maybe is too much for him to be said.

Edited July 1, 2009 by mxhz

[Mr March]

Yeah, fake/false was pretty much the answer we suspected from almost the beginning of this whole affair. But Shaloom didn't make it easy to get to the bottom of all this. Even now, he's still trying to save a little face after being cornered with the truth.

Well, thank you Fuun and mxhz. Your help is much appreciated.

[DeX-kun]

Well here it is guys, sorry it took me so long again but I always like to keep things organized. Anyways, enjoy the square-dance :

*Again, the comments in red that are contained within brackets are just my own comments about his response*

Well, it seems like I was irresponsible

As such, my irresponsibility was presenting information and constructing judgments on that information. By the facts itself, I obviously can't verify anything, therefore it's FALSE.

I'm writing this. So that there will be no doubt.

Until I can prove it by checking through calls, investigations, interviews, printed materials, the information is false. Or a Rumor if you don't like ugly words. [We've been waiting a month, actually, even longer than that, for you to be able to prove it. Wait, he might go and interview Kawamori again ]

Now let's make it clear:

I did not write the information to deceive.

Or to make fun of you.

Or publicity for the site.

The site crashed because if you remember, this is the forum in Spanish to discuss the series, putting images of quality, what we saw in streaming, to comment (even the old hosts threw us away because of over load of users, not because of the liner notes). [Let's take a trip down memory lane, although this still has nothing to do with Ohnogi. /facepalm]

You can not deceive people in an era of internet and the sacred copy paste, it's extremely difficult.

Because this site is not an unknown hidden club. It's a site that google has classified as the official number 1 source in Spanish. And it's obvious that there are 20 forums and users who love to copy paste things that are here.

That's why I call my attitude IRRESPONSIBLE. If you want to believe that I wanted to see your faces is like believing that I (the founder of this site) would have wanted to see this site destroyed. Of course I wasn't looking for that, this site is my pride and if you are upset with this error, I am very pissed at myself for not being wise in finding a better way to fix or handle this. [Your course of action is irresponsible, not just your attitude ]

Obviously NOT EVERYONE will comply with my explanation. There will be people who want more details, questions, interrogations, trial and sentencing. And even create a gif of myself to post it on 4chan. There will be people that from now on will doubt if I exist, if I am a (insert insult tag here) or there will be people that turn their backs to the page and continue with their life. There are plenty of people that are bothered. To them, I give them my apologies and again I reiterate my apologies. [Really now...you're apologizing for all the wrong reasons]

But I can't do any more than that.

Administratively, I've received my punishment, the indifference between the "friends" of the forum (not all, some are greeting me on MSN at the moment) but I brought it upon myself and I want to try and go back to the way things were 3 weeks ago.

Will it take years? I don't know, I guess as long as it takes. The easy way out is to leave the forums. But I will not.

This will obviously cause discomfort, I have no idea what is going to happen with my friends iker and bau, at least I've spoken with Erick and I have no problems with him (hey...my right hand man, don't do it again and apologize).

And that, I'm once again doing it here.

You can post questions and questions: "why did you say x things? why?, I can not believe you do not want to cheat the people"

When it comes down to it, they are the beliefs of others and I can't change that.

In this "trial", I stand before the judge as guilty, and I have pleaded guilty. If there are prosecutors who wish to interrogate me even though I pleaded guilty, then I can't avoid it, even though every question can be simply answered with:

EVERYTHING IS FALSE - I don't have a way to prove anything. I'm guilty. I'm sorry. [Contradiction?]

Don't waste your time and dictate sentencing. My reputation has already been tarnished and no matter what I do, it will not amend. What is going to change is what I do tomorrow, Saturday, Sunday, next week. And the next few years I devote to this site.

How? By not being absent, being "here" in the forum and trying to win back a spot in the community. I will not leave. Because this is my house just like it is yours.

================================================

Now to Gubaba and all of my "stalkers" I want to say something serious.

What I do with my free time during the day, if I visit site X or if at 4pm I'm on veteransclan forum is my decision and my business. I decide when to respond here and when to come here. I do not have any obligation to precisely be here because I have to attend to matters in veteransclan, youtube, or bajocontrol.vg

If you all believe that because I'm on veteransclan (where I am the deputy leader) bajocontrol.vg (where I am an assistant) and because I'm not in MG means that I am "evading" your answers or thinking of a response, understand this. [I wasn't sure about this line, "sabra el FSM que piensen," but I tried. It seems that he's speaking with authority now ]

I will continue doing it, I will preferentially continue to visit those websites until I can find a balance and am able to visit MG more frequently.

I don't need to explain myself as to what I do on those sites and why at that certain time, I won't be here, but I will do it.

[I will proceed to summarize the following]:

Veteransclan es un videogame clan de xbox live y ps3 mexicano al cual pertenezco desde hace 6 años, desde mayo de este año, yo y su lider (gamertag inubass por si le quieren preguntar) invertimos dinero para volver un clan profesional de videojuegos. Tiene patrocinadores, tienen los jugadores elite un sueldo.

Y hoy como secretario, tengo que coordinar apoyos y premios con patrocinadores porque estamos en un torneo de eliminatoria al Word cyber Games que en unos dias se celebrará en Santa Fe en Mexico DF. Veteransclan es un sitio que merece en este momento una atencion preferencial porque tengo dinero invertido y tengo que coordinar muchos eventos, los que sigan mi Twitter sabran que tipo de gente me sigue y de lo que hacemos.

Tambien soy editor adjunto y patrocinador de Bajocontrol.vg Es un magazine online de Cine, musica y videojuegos. El editor en Jefe es Jose Mario Saucedo Aka Azevrec. Yo ayudo un grupo de editores y le damos forma a ese magazine, antes era la revista en Fisico "factor game rush" que la publicaba la cadena de tiendas Blockbuster. A mi me invitó saucedo a participar en su magazine desde hace 1 año y desde que la revista se canceló para convertirse en Magazine Online, me integré a su staff, inclusive poniendo capital para su funcionamiento. Pronto por ejemplo vamos a tener inclusive un programa de Televisión. Y por ende, el movimiento administrativo es muy grande. Me esta siviendo el como trabajar en una revista del lado "editorial". El cual ignoraba mucho el como funciona el trabajar en un medio impreso.

Asi que stalkers, si realmente quieren seguirme a donde vaya, les invito a que entren a estos sitios:

forums.veteransclan.net

bajocontrol.vg

Si quieren decirle a las comunidades alla lo que ha sucedido aqui, adelante. Yo de hecho ya les dije todo lo que ha sucedido e inclusive fui "botnana" en los chats del staff (porque tenemos en los foros de alla un chat integrado). Les pase los links de sus temas en el chat. No tienen link a esta discusion porque este tema solo lo pueden leer los usuarios registrados en MG. Pero pues si quieren llevar su odio y deseo de justicia a otros foros, adelante. Es su tiempo, no el mio. Les reitero que aqui en MG ya me he disculpado y lo volvi a hacer aqui de nuevo en este post.

[Basically all he talks about here is the other sites he mentions in which he visits frequently, which are "forums.veteransclan.net" and "bajocontrol.vg" and he goes on to explain what his role is within each of those websites, which of course is irrelevant to us since all we want to know about is all the false information that he has spread He also goes on to explain how he has invested money into those sites and how he takes those places as a higher priority than MG (Macross Generation.)

He then goes on to invite his so-called "stalkers" to follow him because he won't care since they're just wasting their time (I think you're one of his stalkers Gubaba ) Then he re-states how he has already apologized , etc, etc.]

[Now onto the last part of the post]:

Seriously, do not waste your time in watching my online activities. You will still see me on veterans clan at lunch time instead of MG. You will still see me online at Bajocontrol.vg in the mornings instead of MG. You will still see me on youtube while I'm on MG. It's my time and I decide how to spend it.

If you take my activities to a very personal level of offense and despite my personal apology, even if you take it personally, then... personally, I ask forgiveness. (again).

Omar Peimbert - Shaloom

PS - Incidentally, I'm going to play for a while in SFIV Xbox live, someone wants to split the snout virtually? My gamertag is Shaloom.Los to see xbox live and chat with me if you wish. [So much for taking it seriously ]

Edited July 1, 2009 by DeX-kun

[Mercurial Morpheus]

Wow, I love how he continues to play the victim and act like it all resulted from some "mistakes". That's a hell of a lot of errors to just shrug them off and play the "poor me" card. Especially how he contently puts off any explanation based entirely on his audience having preconceived notions and making up their minds against him. He seemed to have no trouble posting stuff when everyone viewed him as an expert, but now that he's a "liar" he clams up. Wonderful. I agree with Mr. March, this is not the response of an innocent man.

"I didn't do it to decieve, make fun or publicize the site". Then why the hell did you do it? We'll probably never know, but it doesn't really matter anymore. I still say it was probably for the accolades.

The stalker line is just insulting. You go missing for three weeks, it's sort of unusual. I drop out of forums myself (hence my lack of posting), but that's just crazy. It's not what he does with his time that we care about, it's why he persists in claiming things that don't exist do.

I say it's time to move on. There's more fruitful things to persue than a guy that only gives half-truths to try to cover his already bare end.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Mercurial Morpheus

[Fuun]

Mmm dex-kun, hope this doens't bother you but I found a paragraph with errors.

Specifically this one:

Obviously NOT EVERYONE will comply with my explanation. There will be people who want more details, questions, interrogations, trial and sentencing. And even create a gif of myself to post it on 4chan. There will be people that from now on will doubt if I exist, if I am a (insert insult tag here) or there will be people that turn their backs to the page and continue with their life. There are plenty of people that are bothered. To them, I give them my apologies and again I reiterate my apologies.

In the first bold words, it would be better "will be satisfied with my explanation"

In the second ones, "to turn the page and continue with their life".

No more complaints

Ah, about the "FSM" thing, he's referring to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Yeah, pretty stupid but well

Now, my opinion.

He got cornered by Gubaba, and actually by not having any solid response, mounted all this ridiculous "defense" posts explaining things nobody cares about.

And he do that twice.

At least he admits his info was false from the very beginning, but it seems like he doesn't really see the damage he did to the community, because A LOT of people changed their visions of Macross F and the staff involved on it, by reading his liner notes, translated interviews, etc.

That's the mayor thing that bothers me the most, he even said at some point "for the ones who wanna post that all is false in other involved forums, go ahead and do it, because I won't", like saying "i don't care".

Anyway, the admins and several users of MG are questioning his reactions to all this. That's a very good signal.

Well, Mercurial Morpheus is right, it's time to move on.

And finally, quoting Gubaba too, "getting this guy to be honest is like getting blood from a stone"

So, even when Gubaba doesn't got all the answers, i believe this is over.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Fuun

[mike_s_6]

I say it's time to move on.

I agree with this. The most important thing is that everyone already knows that he's an unreliable source. I doubt people would continue to believe in his words the same way as before, especially if he can't produce hard evidence. The objective here, which is to falsify the translations, has been done, and the only thing left hanging here is this person's honesty, which all of us can't change if he doesn't want to change himself.

[DeX-kun]

Mmm dex-kun, hope this doens't bother you but I found a paragraph with errors.

Specifically this one:

In the first bold words, it would be better "will be satisfied with my explanation"

In the second one, "to turn the page and continue with their life".

No more complaints

Ah, about the "FSM" thing, he's referring to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Yeah, pretty stupid but well

Oh don't even worry about that, I'm glad that you caught errors because there are bound to be some. I don't mind at all, if anything it's better because I'll be able to sort my translation out. Now as for the errors you caught:

The first one is essentially the same thing, being satisfied or agreeing with his explanation is just about the same thing so I think it's fine in it's original form

For the second correction, I agree with you completely so I just changed it

I don't know what the Flying Spaghetti Monster has to do with anything

Edited July 1, 2009 by DeX-kun

[stray]

Thanks DeX, the translation/summary on Suki that I did was a little too sloppy to bring over here. Although I would have phrased a couple things differently you got the point across.

Anyway I said this over on suki... albeit with alot more cursing. I think the fandom has basically gotten as much of an answer as it's going to get and... well I kind of feel like crap about translating one of the first interviews of his way way back with cheesie that spread throughout the English fandom as we all started believing BS about Ohnogi.

It sucks, and the guy... well, nevermind, f**k Shaloom. I think everyone can appreciate Gubaba getting to the bottom of this. I haven't been hanging around the Macross fandom much lately, but I think this proves we are one hell of a group, and are a hell of alot stronger than some BS lies. One.

[DeX-kun]

Thanks DeX, the translation/summary on Suki that I did was a little too sloppy to bring over here. Although I would have phrased a couple things differently you got the point across.

Anyway I said this over on suki... albeit with alot more cursing. I think the fandom has basically gotten as much of an answer as it's going to get and... well I kind of feel like crap about translating one of the first interviews of his way way back with cheesie that spread throughout the English fandom as we all started believing BS about Ohnogi.

It sucks, and the guy... well, nevermind, f**k Shaloom. I think everyone can appreciate Gubaba getting to the bottom of this. I haven't been hanging around the Macross fandom much lately, but I think this proves we are one hell of a group, and are a hell of alot stronger than some BS lies. One.

You're welcome, I took the job of translating this because what he wrote really pulled my strings so-to-speak because no matter how bad things look, he's constantly avoiding responding directly as to how he jumped to so many conclusions and speculations and never bothered to reiterate that everything he was releasing were just his own assumptions and ideas. I felt it was necessary for everyone to read this.

Yeah, there are definitely different ways to phrase things but I spent more time trying to get a literal translation that made sense rather than convert it completely to English if that makes sense

Well, after everything that has happened, I think it's pretty much a done deal. What goes on at MG is not up to us so all we can do is wish them luck and hopefully they make the right decisions.

Edited July 1, 2009 by DeX-kun

[Fuun]

I don't know what the Flying Spaghetti Monster has to do with anything

Let's just say that for the Pastafarian theory (some crazy internet phenomenon), the FSM is like a God (I tell you, I don't have any interest in this, so, dunno why he is a God or whatever ).

So what Shaloom was saying with the "o sabra FSM que piensen", would be, by logic "or will God know what are you thinking".

Yeah it's stupid but maybe Shaloom follows this Pastafarian stuff and... well nevermind, the thing is that he was talking about a God-like being .

Edited July 1, 2009 by Fuun