The making of a 1/72 Tacticar Pod Graug--the musical!

[captain america]

I came to this thread late. All kits are spoken for correct? (rats)

1/72 would still look OK with 1/60 valks no?

And how much will they be total with shipping? - just curious.

P.S. - Freaking amazing if I did not mention that already . . .

There's a possibility that I'll be able to extend the run to 30 in stead of 20. Some of the larger molds are currently at their mid-life point and are holding up nicely, though I will err on the side of caution and wait before accepting any new orders. Total with shipping has yet to be determined, as I don't yet have full kits that I can weigh for postage.

Edit: as for how well this will display with 1/60 Valks, that's entirely subjective. The "purists" will say that my Graug is way too big for 1/72, but that's just two-dimensional thinking. I actually think it'll look fine next to either 1/72 or even 1/60 scale, though a closed cockpit would be better for the latter.

Edited August 20, 2009 by captain america

[Bri]

The model looks absolutely fantastic. I'm curious, did you have to make any consessions in regard to the line art at all?

[AJCarrington]

There's a possibility that I'll be able to extend the run to 30 in stead of 20.

This is great news - will be keeping my eyes on the forums very closely...

AJC

[captain america]

The model looks absolutely fantastic. I'm curious, did you have to make any consessions in regard to the line art at all?

Many. But if you have to ask at all, I take that as a good sign

Truthfully, many of the "concessions" are in the cockpit area, as what you see in the line art and the dimensional shape of the cockpit conflict greatly; a little bit like if you were shown a small camping trailer from the outside, and then a photo of the inside, showing lots of space with a full kitchen and a waterfall; you know the two just don't add up.

[tetsujin]

Edit: as for how well this will display with 1/60 Valks, that's entirely subjective. The "purists" will say that my Graug is way too big for 1/72, but that's just two-dimensional thinking.

Meaning that the model is taller than 16.55/72*100 cm tall? Yeah, I'm with you - it's better to compromise, and come up with a model that looks right and still comes close to working (in terms of fitting the pilot inside) - I do consider myself a "purist" when it comes to mecha design, but in a case like this, something's got to give...

[Kremmen]

There's a possibility that I'll be able to extend the run to 30 in stead of 20. Some of the larger molds are currently at their mid-life point and are holding up nicely, though I will err on the side of caution and wait before accepting any new orders. Total with shipping has yet to be determined, as I don't yet have full kits that I can weigh for postage.

Edit: as for how well this will display with 1/60 Valks, that's entirely subjective. The "purists" will say that my Graug is way too big for 1/72, but that's just two-dimensional thinking. I actually think it'll look fine next to either 1/72 or even 1/60 scale, though a closed cockpit would be better for the latter.

That's promising news, as long as I'm first in line. Seriously, as noted earlier I'm desperate not to miss out. Heck, I'd even take two in the unlikely event you end up with extras.

The "official" stats for this mech are just plain wrong. That's all there is to it; anyone who gets purist over that is gonna have to be considered sillier than a very silly thing, I'm afraid.

PS it is looking sensationally gorgeous. Can't say how glad I am you've tackled this mech, John, even if I do miss one. It's the mech that got me into anime modelling in the first place - just love it, it's up there with the P.k.F 85 Falke from Ma.K as one of the all time great designs. Just curious, do you have an estimated height figure for the completed model?

Edited August 24, 2009 by Kremmen

[ahiachris]

That's promising news, as long as I'm first in line. Seriously, as noted earlier I'm desperate not to miss out. Heck, I'd even take two in the unlikely event you end up with extras.

The "official" stats for this mech are just plain wrong. That's all there is to it; anyone who gets purist over that is gonna have to be considered sillier than a very silly thing, I'm afraid.

Yeah it's very concourage news that it might past the twenty mark due to the fact that I'm right at the end of the queue.

As for the stats I truly understand that not all dimension stated in the official lineart were that accurate when I was tackling a recast Glaug and figuring how on earth can a Zentradi soldier sculpt by John can be fit into the tiney cockpit. And when I was doing my Centiipede I also figured out that the dimension was again not accurate.

[Kremmen]

Yeah it's very concourage news that it might past the twenty mark due to the fact that I'm right at the end of the queue.

As for the stats I truly understand that not all dimension stated in the official lineart were that accurate when I was tackling a recast Glaug and figuring how on earth can a Zentradi soldier sculpt by John can be fit into the tiney cockpit. And when I was doing my Centiipede I also figured out that the dimension was again not accurate.

Yes! That bugged me back in '82, building my IP version of the same kit. It was an obvious cheat.

[captain america]

Just curious, do you have an estimated height figure for the completed model?

Yes! Yes I do. Roughly 35.5cm tall, or about 14 inches, if you prefer Imperial.

[ahiachris]

Yes! That bugged me back in '82, building my IP version of the same kit. It was an obvious cheat.

I think that it was because in the older days technology and budget will never allow a 35cm tall Glauge to be release. In those day people will think that it's impossible to release a 1/400 Gundam battleship

[DarrinG]

Seems like 14" tall would be perfect for display with 1/60 valks.

I would love the chance at one of these (if I can afford the final price). Saving for a Garfish right now too.

Will watch this closely . . .

[jadefalconguard]

Yes! Yes I do. Roughly 35.5cm tall, or about 14 inches, if you prefer Imperial.

That makes it about 1/35th scale for a Battletech Marauder...dam..Should have taken two

[tetsujin]

Yes! Yes I do. Roughly 35.5cm tall, or about 14 inches, if you prefer Imperial.

Dang - so roughly 25m tall if you scaled it back up to "full size"? The thing could stand in for a Monster... And still the pilot only just fits in there... XD I can really see why they decided not to include the Regult in the Macross movie - though the fact that the DYRL battlesuits were frikkin awesome could be another reason.

Though somehow the idea of a Glaug being on par with a Monster in terms of height (if not overall bulk) kind of fits... Even if it's not official I think it works, for reasons I can't readily articulate...

[Kremmen]

Thanks for the figure, John. I'm really looking forwards to the buildup threads for this thing.

Though somehow the idea of a Glaug being on par with a Monster in terms of height (if not overall bulk) kind of fits... Even if it's not official I think it works, for reasons I can't readily articulate...

Well...it is official, really. What's more easily corrected - the height figure for one mech, or the height figure for every single Zentran?

If a Zentran is the accepted size, then the Glaug can't be any smaller than this. 25m is a lower limit.

[ahiachris]

Thanks for the figure, John. I'm really looking forwards to the buildup threads for this thing.

Well...it is official, really. What's more easily corrected - the height figure for one mech, or the height figure for every single Zentran?

If a Zentran is the accepted size, then the Glaug can't be any smaller than this. 25m is a lower limit.

At least it will be official in this forum. Like for my ground vehicles, I adjust the dimesion of the vehicles according to an average height human in 1/72.

[Kremmen]

At least it will be official in this forum. Like for my ground vehicles, I adjust the dimesion of the vehicles according to an average height human in 1/72.

No plastic, scaled pilot should have to sit in something smaller than the plastic, scaled cockpit of a plastic, scaled Spitfire. It's more than a good idea, it's the right thing to do.

[cool8or]

According with official info, Glaug's height is 16.55 mts. In 1/72 scale, this is 22.98 cms... so if Captain's Glaug heights 35.5, x72 = 25.56 mts. This is more than the Monster, which height is 22.46 mts.

Here is the size chart:

Anyway, a couple of meters more is not problem to me, if this means a more credible result.

[MechTech]

Let' face it, the official numbers looked cool on paper. Then you get suckas like us who actually try to build it and only then do we discover that the numbers can't work and that there is a lot of "anime magic" to the designs. As cool as many of the Macross mecha are, the designs and many of the stats just aren't realistic. Then again, we are talking about an animated series

All the same, AWESOME work John. It sound like a few choice individuals will get a little something extra under the tree this Christmas - MT

[Ranka-Killer]

According with official info, Glaug's height is 16.55 mts. In 1/72 scale, this is 22.98 cms... so if Captain's Glaug heights 35.5, x72 = 25.56 mts. This is more than the Monster, which height is 22.46 mts.

Here is the size chart:

Anyway, a couple of meters more is not problem to me, if this means a more credible result.

Hummmm.... supposedly, a battroid VF-1 should be the same height as a Zentraedi soldier (that was the reason for the battroid mode, as explained in the first Macross), we saw they had the same size the first time Hikaru faces a Zentraedi, but in this table, we see the VF-1 battroid almost double Zentran soldier size. Who's right???

[cool8or]

MechTech, I totally agree with you. In fact, I'm glad that John uses this criteria in this aspects. I hate all those 80's zentran model kits because its disproportion. John give us a more credible and congruent point of view of these mechas.

Ranka Killer, welcome to MW. About your doubts, you can read the following article:

http://www.new-un-spacy.com/forfansonly/zentradiheight.html

Edited August 25, 2009 by cool8or

[Ranka-Killer]

Thanks cool8or !

[DarrinG]

"If Kamjin is nearly 12 meters tall, he is clearly too large to fit inside the cockpit of the Glaug. At best, the Glaug might accomodate a 10 meter tall Zentradi. In this case we can assume that either Kamjin's height is wrong, the size of the Glaug is wrong or that both sizes are correct and we are meant to ignore the problem."

Who cares! Bring on the Glaug!

[cool8or]

Who cares! Bring on the Glaug!

Yeah, that's the spirit. All this info is only anecdotal, in the modelling meaning. In fact, I think if Kawamori could see the Captain's Glaug, he would want to change the official info and ask a reprint of all Macross books to fix the info

[Sdf-1]

According with official info, Glaug's height is 16.55 mts. In 1/72 scale, this is 22.98 cms... so if Captain's Glaug heights 35.5, x72 = 25.56 mts. This is more than the Monster, which height is 22.46 mts.

No Problem. We just make the monster bigger. Just like in Spinal Tap: it goes to eleven.

[tetsujin]

Well...it is official, really. What's more easily corrected - the height figure for one mech, or the height figure for every single Zentran?

If a Zentran is the accepted size, then the Glaug can't be any smaller than this. 25m is a lower limit.

Well, no, not quite.

See, there's more than one way you can fudge this to make things fit. You can shrink the pilot, you can make the Glaug larger... Or you can make just the pod larger.

Now, don't make the mistake here of thinking I advocate this course, or that I think it would be preferable to simply scaling the Glaug up. Personally I think the proportionality of a design trumps logic about how the design should work - which in turn trumps official figures. (And yes, it's a transitive relationship in this case...) If one were to go messing with the proportions of the Glaug just to make the pilot fit without making the Glaug much taller overall, I think the results would be very ugly. My point is simply that a 25m size for the Glaug is neither official nor, strictly speaking, necessary. It is, however, a good compromise given the contradictions at play.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with it. Even "purists" have to be realistic about compromise in the face of contradictions, and Cap's work is always fantastic.

[captain america]

Oh, just for fun, here is a comparative example using two different "official" pieces of line-art. I scaled a side-view of the Graug to match the size chart: if you look at the Quamzin/pilot representation and side-view at right, you will see that for the sake of continuity, it is not physically possible to maintain size continuity, given the numerical values of the mech and pilot AND fitting a pilot inside the Graug.Also, you have to take battle armor into consideration, which makes the pilot bulkier, as well as slightly taller. Quite simply, they fudged it, and that's alright cos I like to fix things.

Gotta remember that back in the day, the staff probably never expected the artwork to be scrutinized so closely, and have massive mass appeal 20 years+ onward, and also, marketing influences may or may not have played a role in the size of the mechs, and how they can be applied to product that has to meet a given price-point. When I did the Heavy Gear/Jovian Chronicles designs, I had to wing it proportionally too, because I simply didn't have time to be as elaborate as I would've liked to be.

Anyway, here I am, 22 molds later, pouring 1.5kg of resin to get one Graug, made with far, far fewer concessions than the artwork it was derived from

Edited August 25, 2009 by captain america

[ultimateone]

Meh, like you said, I guarantee they never expected this level of scrutiny, so making it work is up to us.

Any chance of the booster being built for this at a later date? Or has that already been addressed in this thread?

[captain america]

Any chance of the booster being built for this at a later date?

Not a snowball's chance in hell

[ultimateone]

Not a snowball's chance in hell

I dunno, I'm hearing maybe... My wife said the same thing the first time I asked her out.

[Kremmen]

Well, no, not quite.

See, there's more than one way you can fudge this to make things fit. You can shrink the pilot, you can make the Glaug larger... Or you can make just the pod larger.

It's official in the sense that it's what we see onscreen. We see a 12-m pilot who fits in a cockpit, and we see more-or-less consistent proportions for that mech, depending on the skill of whoever was animating that scene.

So that's the primary canon. You can't do any of the other retcons if you want to stay canonical, because we never saw a Matchbox version with a giant pod running around (or if we did, I've repressed the memory).

Just nitpicking really. I agree with your other points, I just don't see this as a compromise - more a very overdue correction.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Kremmen

[cool8or]

Wow John, your image is a match point. Also considering that the Kamjin showed in the image doesn't heights 10 meters, as he should be.

About the booster, I think that it should'n be so complicated scratch it, but we would need a second Glaug, and that is the hard part

Edited August 26, 2009 by cool8or

[captain america]

I think that it should'n be so complicated scratch it, but we would need a second Glaug, and that is the hard part

It would be hard on the wallet, that much I can say. The booster hull would either have to be vac-formed, or laid-up in fiberglass--most likely the latter to get good detail, and probably $1200 apiece. Like I said, not a snowball's chance in Hell

[tetsujin]

It's official in the sense that it's what we see onscreen. We see a 12-m pilot who fits in a cockpit, and we see more-or-less consistent proportions for that mech, depending on the skill of whoever was animating that scene.

So that's the primary canon. You can't do any of the other retcons if you want to stay canonical, because we never saw a Matchbox version with a giant pod running around (or if we did, I've repressed the memory).

Right, yeah, a 20m Glaug would have to look like the Matchbox version... It's not a good look, really - had I remembered who made that toy I would have even cited it as a flaw in that approach. XD

With regard to what we see in the anime - of course it's full of errors that go beyond the fundamental ones that exist in the official stats - but generally they did not convey the Glaug as being over 25m tall, either. So none of the various fixes to the Glaug design (either make it taller, "Matchboxify" it, or make the pilot smaller) really fit the anime. So, to me, making the Glaug taller is probably the best option. But it's not the only option.

Just nitpicking really. I agree with your other points, I just don't see this as a compromise - more a very overdue correction.

<shrug> The way I figure it, there are always compromises. This is not necessarily a bad thing, it's just what one does to turn a good 2-D design into a good model. You compromise the aspects that are less important to you in order to try and emphasize the more important elements of the design. It's a compromise in the sense that something has had to give way in order for you to reach that solution...

[baxojayz]

$1200 sounds reasonable, I'll take 2.

[Ranger565]

John my dream from you is the Cats Eye. My Favorite of all. I have the original, but man that puppy from you would be awsome.