Bandai 1/48 Scale Macross Frontier Model Kit Thread

[SVF-Gerwalk]

I really hope your wrong because that sounds absolutely horrible.

+1

Make a non variable 1/48 to fight the Hasegawa kits is ridiculous, cos they can make variable 1/48 kits and destroy them totally.

A variable kit can satisfy who want variable kits and "traditional" builders, both, but a non variable kit only satisfy one of them, so is more reasonable do it variable if you dont want lose money.

A kit of a Macross Variable Figther that have no change is a miss, like a car kit that have not open doors, Im traditional builder, and I think that the Macross Variable Figther kits must be variable, logically.

I dont understand the complains about the variable kits, if you dont want a variable kit dont transform it, simple like that, the transformation is a plus, is not bind do it, and the transformation do the kit more posable.

Edited May 22, 2009 by SVF-Gerwalk

[Ghadrack]

I dont understand the complains about the variable kits, if you dont want a variable kit dont transform it, simple like that, the transformation is a plus, is not bind do it, and the transformation do the kit more posable.

One of the big complaints from true modelers and accuracy addicts is that transformation kits historically have had to sacrifice line art accuracy to make up for anime-magic that occurs in the transformation process, shape changing chest plates, shrinking verniers and thrusters, swing bars, floating joints etc, etc, etc. So having a nearly perfectly detailed static model is much more pleasing to some than having what amounts to a fragile, inaccurate toy that takes many many hours worth of work to complete for a substandard looking end result.

PS. I'm hoping that these are going to be essentially Macross PG Kits.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Ghadrack

[SVF-Gerwalk]

One of the big complaints from true modelers and accuracy addicts is that transformation kits historically have had to sacrifice line art accuracy to make up for anime-magic that occurs in the transformation process, shape changing chest plates, shrinking verniers and thrusters, swing bars, floating joints etc, etc, etc. So having a nearly perfectly detailed static model is much more pleasing to some than having what amounts to a fragile, inaccurate toy that takes many many hours worth of work to complete for a substandard looking end result.

PS. I'm hoping that these are going to be essentially Macross PG Kits.

Yep, the Bandai VF-1 variable kits are horrible, but the problem is a bad desing, not the transformation, cos in a Macross kit the transformation is part of accuracy.

Bandai did a good job in Macross Frontier 1/72, I hope the same of 1/48 and hope that it´ll be a PG with stratospheric detail.

EDIT:

Traduction anyone ?

Edited May 22, 2009 by SVF-Gerwalk

[honkhet]

One of the big complaints from true modelers and accuracy addicts is that transformation kits historically have had to sacrifice line art accuracy to make up for anime-magic that occurs in the transformation process, shape changing chest plates, shrinking verniers and thrusters, swing bars, floating joints etc, etc, etc.

well,

i dont see any line art accuracy sacrifice for the 1/72 vf-25

and it still can transform.

thing is the vf-25 was designed to transform with minimum anime magic from the very beginning.

not like the vf-1. yf-19, yf-21 etc

[valkyriepilot]

@honkhet: i agree with you sir, it seems like the VF-25 was designed from the start with the objective of having a VF design that will work both in animation and kit form. it's all part of the marketing strategy, probably one of the major things Kawamori-sensei and Bandai talked about during the planning of the show.

Edited May 22, 2009 by valkyriepilot

[captain america]

well,

i dont see any line art accuracy sacrifice for the 1/72 vf-25

and it still can transform.

thing is the vf-25 was designed to transform with minimum anime magic from the very beginning.

not like the vf-1. yf-19, yf-21 etc

Bingo!

And depending on the nature of Bandai and the Whory Froating Head's collaboration, it's entirely possible that the VF designs were done specifically with product already in mind, or perhaps with input directly from Bandai, which they were notorious for doing with Gundam. Either way, I wouldn't lose any sleep over transformation/proportional accuracy, if indeed they do go that route.

Could it be a static, non-variable model? While it's possible, I feel that this scenario is highly unlikely. I liken Macross Flontier to Evangelion: something non-Gundam that Bandai saw potential in, and was able to sink its marketing claws into; good for Bandai, and good for the fans.

[aquilon]

I really hope your wrong because that sounds absolutely horrible.

I'm a traditional model builder and I don't build my models to be toys; therefore the transforming aspect of Bandai's models I can take it or leave it. A non-transforming model will also be much cheaper and easier to build. Also, how many of us have built the 1/72 VF25's, transformed it once or twice, mess up the decals/ stickers and then left it in whatever mode we like? Then we go out, buy two more so we can have one of each mode!

That said, this is Bandai and I highly doubt they will release a non-transforming VF25 since Hasegawa does that better than anyone else (except maybe Tamiya but the Big T don't do Macross).

[SVF-Gerwalk]

I'm a traditional model builder and I don't build my models to be toys; therefore the transforming aspect of Bandai's models I can take it or leave it. A non-transforming model will also be much cheaper and easier to build. Also, how many of us have built the 1/72 VF25's, transformed it once or twice, mess up the decals/ stickers and then left it in whatever mode we like? Then we go out, buy two more so we can have one of each mode!

That said, this is Bandai and I highly doubt they will release a non-transforming VF25 since Hasegawa does that better than anyone else (except maybe Tamiya but the Big T don't do Macross).

There no doub that if the kit haven´t transformation probably won´t mess the decals, but it fail at accuracy and at main detail that is the transformation of Macross valkyries.

I made VF-25 kits to be toys, with stikers, and won´t have any problem.

And made VF-25 kits to be models, with decals, with full accuracy of Macross valkyrie transformation, just I dont play with them like a toy through.

[wm cheng]

+1

Make a non variable 1/48 to fight the Hasegawa kits is ridiculous, cos they can make variable 1/48 kits and destroy them totally.

A variable kit can satisfy who want variable kits and "traditional" builders, both, but a non variable kit only satisfy one of them, so is more reasonable do it variable if you dont want lose money.

A kit of a Macross Variable Figther that have no change is a miss, like a car kit that have not open doors, Im traditional builder, and I think that the Macross Variable Figther kits must be variable, logically.

I dont understand the complains about the variable kits, if you dont want a variable kit dont transform it, simple like that, the transformation is a plus, is not bind do it, and the transformation do the kit more posable.

I think Graham was talking about ME! hehe, I have to agree, if its another transformable model, then I'll definitely pass on it. I'll only be interested if its a static aircraft model... (although I thought I was going to pass on the 1/72 transformable one, but I caved and all that I feared has come true during the course of building it - you can following along my miserable trek in the build up thread, I'm not even really having fun anymore trying to finish it - and its all because of the transformations!).

There are so many horrible compromises for transformation I can't even begin to list... the most hideous is the huge big-ass backplate hinges that are not in the original lineart - these really ruin the scale of the model and reduces it to a "toy". Come on, are these giant 36" hinges made with 6" thick steel in scale?! The alignment of all the various back/shoulder/hip gun pieces are completely problematic and ruins the flowing lines of the aircraft fuselage with these giant cracks! Due to the moveability of numerous pieces, the construction steps and construction order makes it really hard, if not impossible to properly paint and mask in a logical order, I find I have to assemble and keep disassemble pieces and partially paint bits and bobs here and there to get it painted before assembly. It is impossible to properly protect all the decals and paint from the binding and rubbing of surfaces during transformations, whatever effort you put into all that work, it WILL eventually be ruined with each time you transform it. Its a great kit to just not paint it, and slap on the stickers and call it a day! But its a nightmare for anyone wanting to do a little more. I'd prefer a static mode model like Hasegawa anyday! I thought about glueing my kit in the aircraft mode only, but you still have to assemble all the innards and hinges in the (@ss-backwards order) anyways to get it to into the plane mode - which still doesn't make it any easier to paint. Argh! are you sensing my frustration!! Don't get me started on the joke they call a landing gear and gear well and the severely undersized 1/100 scale pilot and cockpit - I didn't know Alto was a muchkin at 4 feet tall? I could go on...

Simply said; If I want a toy, I'd buy one... but I want to build a model properly. I'm a plane/aircraft nut anyways!

I agree with the Captain, given Bandai's expertise, its highly unlikely that it will be a static model. I'm sure I'm the small/minority demographic here, and the vast majority wants a fun toy that they can snap together, play with and not worry about painting.

[aquilon]

I think Graham was talking about ME! hehe, I have to agree, if its another transformable model, then I'll definitely pass on it. I'll only be interested if its a static aircraft model... (although I thought I was going to pass on the 1/72 transformable one, but I caved and all that I feared has come true during the course of building it - you can following along my miserable trek in the build up thread, I'm not even really having fun anymore trying to finish it - and its all because of the transformations!).

There are so many horrible compromises for transformation I can't even begin to list... the most hideous is the huge big-ass backplate hinges that are not in the original lineart - these really ruin the scale of the model and reduces it to a "toy". Come on, are these giant 36" hinges made with 6" thick steel in scale?! The alignment of all the various back/shoulder/hip gun pieces are completely problematic and ruins the flowing lines of the aircraft fuselage with these giant cracks! Due to the moveability of numerous pieces, the construction steps and construction order makes it really hard, if not impossible to properly paint and mask in a logical order, I find I have to assemble and keep disassemble pieces and partially paint bits and bobs here and there to get it painted before assembly. It is impossible to properly protect all the decals and paint from the binding and rubbing of surfaces during transformations, whatever effort you put into all that work, it WILL eventually be ruined with each time you transform it. Its a great kit to just not paint it, and slap on the stickers and call it a day! But its a nightmare for anyone wanting to do a little more. I'd prefer a static mode model like Hasegawa anyday! I thought about glueing my kit in the aircraft mode only, but you still have to assemble all the innards and hinges in the (@ss-backwards order) anyways to get it to into the plane mode - which still doesn't make it any easier to paint. Argh! are you sensing my frustration!! Don't get me started on the joke they call a landing gear and gear well and the severely undersized 1/100 scale pilot and cockpit - I didn't know Alto was a muchkin at 4 feet tall? I could go on...

Simply said; If I want a toy, I'd buy one... but I want to build a model properly. I'm a plane/aircraft nut anyways!

I agree with the Captain, given Bandai's expertise, its highly unlikely that it will be a static model. I'm sure I'm the small/minority demographic here, and the vast majority wants a fun toy that they can snap together, play with and not worry about painting.

LOL - looks like we're in the same boat! I was originally going to build my VF25F w/ all the usual enhancements: pre-shading, panel line washes, weathering, etc. Then I read through the instruction manual and couldn't figure out a way to do that without building the thing to transform with all the screwy sub-assemblies & impossible masking that entails. So now I'm just building it w/o paint although I plan to use the decals - it would just PO me to use stickers because then it is a toy and not a model.

Edited May 22, 2009 by aquilon

[SVF-Gerwalk]

Lol cheng

Made a variable valkyrie kit, with paint and decals, is the most difficult work you can faced.

Is a true challenge cos is an unexplored terrain by Bandai and the builders, so the kit come with issues that must be solved, and the builders should faced new problems, like parts that rub the decals ... etc

I dont transform my models, but I have plan made a model that can do it using cars model techniques, strong sand ... strong paint and high amount of gloss layers to protect the decals, airbrush all ofcourse.

It´ll be hard but I must try

[Lolicon]

You guys typed up all the same complaints I had with the 1/72 problems caused by the compromises made by including the transformation much more eloquently than I could have. And I'm hardly a pro modeler.

[wm cheng]

Oh good... I feel better now that I'm not the only one in this boat, all alone... ;-(

I haven't read anyone word of discontentment about Bandai since these models came out. I thought I was the only nay-sayer around here (and I hate being the bearer of bad news).

I was beginning to think maybe its just me (I haven't built in a while so I thought I was just rusty).

[Vifam7]

Some of the issues on the 1/72 kit could probably be fixed on the larger 1/48 scale kit.

With regards to non-transforming Valk kit vs. transforming Valk kit, I personally wouldn't mind a fighter mode only kit. But I think the truth is - the majority prefers a transforming kit. And since that's where the money will be, that's likely where Bandai goes.

When it comes to transforming mecha, whether it's a Valkyrie or not, there seems to be very little support behind one-mode only models or toys. When Graham suggested a fighter mode only 1/100 GNU, the idea was quickly trashed by the majority even though there was a PT 1/60 line going on strong.

Among Japanese fans, I've read comments like - "a Valkyrie that doesn't transform isn't a Valkyrie". Kinda like how some people feel about non-alcoholic beer. Or a beef bowl without the beef.

On the other hand, I believe Hasegawa did pretty well with their Macross kits line (though probably not to the sales level of a gunpla). I think it wouldn't hurt for Bandai to also release a fighter mode only VF-25 kit in their EX line which is aimed at the experienced hard core modeller.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Vifam7

[EXO]

I'd rather get a non transforming kit with good detail. The problem with transforming kits is that the paint will scratch off and it's usually not that sturdy. I wouldn't want to have that paint scratch off after detailing and weathering it. Plus you'd have to add some screws, heavy plastics and maybe even some die cast parts. Articulated models are ok. But full transforming ones... I don't know.

[Dobber]

I wouldn't mind one way or the other, but...after hearing what a PG kit costs, I'd much rather just have a straight fighter kit. It would be much more affordable and my 1/72's are always in ighter mode anyway.

Chris

[anime52k8]

I'm a traditional model builder and I don't build my models to be toys; therefore the transforming aspect of Bandai's models I can take it or leave it. A non-transforming model will also be much cheaper and easier to build. Also, how many of us have built the 1/72 VF25's, transformed it once or twice, mess up the decals/ stickers and then left it in whatever mode we like? Then we go out, buy two more so we can have one of each mode!

That said, this is Bandai and I highly doubt they will release a non-transforming VF25 since Hasegawa does that better than anyone else (except maybe Tamiya but the Big T don't do Macross).

I build both and find both enjoyably but prefer gunpla style kits because I find them a lot easier, and safer (I've never managed to become sick or injured while working on a gundam kit).

my comment was more along the lines of I don't like the idea of BANDAI making a static model. my first thought when I hear bandai and stating aircraft model together is there EX series, which I dislike. maybe Maybe if they turned out more along the lines of their hard graph kits but I'm not overwhelmingly optimistic.

my other thought is that if it was a fighter mode only kit, that would kind of be a big f**k you to everyone who likes battroid mode (like myself). I don't usually build macross models because I prefer battroid mode, all the toys I have are displayed in battroid mode 80-90 percent of the time. I want a large scale, anime accurate battroid, not a fighter.

[honkhet]

i just dont understand people that keep saying the 1/72 models are fragile,

screw up decals when transform, paint job and blah blah blah

i have made 3 models of the 1/72 vf-25, all with super parts

did some painting, water slide decals and lastly some layers of clear coat.

didnt even take me more than 2 weeks for each of them

i have been playing non-stop with them eversince,

not a single decal or joint had any problem.

i just hope the 1/48 improves on the size and on the already almost perfect 1/72.

spending more effort than 2 weeks, or months, or half a year just to paint and build a small, 1/72 model,

and then just leaving it on display forever in jet mode??? thats just too boring for me

1/72 is not even grand enough scale to be called a display

bring on the 1/48 ASAP

Edited May 23, 2009 by honkhet

[shiroikaze]

I don't think the 1/72 is perfect but it's pretty damn good too me.

[honkhet]

anyway, i was never part of the modelling community before this,

so i may not understand what a modeller wants or thinks.

and the 1/72 vf-25 was my first ever model kit.

the only reason why i took up modelling was the thing called the DX vf-25

Edited May 23, 2009 by honkhet

[PetarB]

anyway, i was never part of the modelling community before this,

so i may not understand what a modeller wants or thinks.

and the 1/72 vf-25 was my first ever model kit.

And this is the reason why I think Bandai did a HUGE favour to modelers (and their bank account) by making a model kit that would appeal to a wider audience. I think its a good thing.

HOWEVER...

...as a scale modeler who loves to do a 'realistic' finishes, I really wish they would make a non-transformable line of the fighter. I endorse WMCheng's sentiments. There are just too many compromises in building the transformable 1/72 VF-25. A static one would be simply awesome. But honestly, I doubt we will see one.

[honkhet]

I endorse WMCheng's sentiments. There are just too many compromises in building the transformable 1/72 VF-25. A static one would be simply awesome. But honestly, I doubt we will see one.

Can you tell me what are the "too many comprimises" are you talking about?

please enlighten me

[SVF-Gerwalk]

And this is the reason why I think Bandai did a HUGE favour to modelers (and their bank account) by making a model kit that would appeal to a wider audience. I think its a good thing.

HOWEVER...

...as a scale modeler who loves to do a 'realistic' finishes, I really wish they would make a non-transformable line of the fighter. I endorse WMCheng's sentiments. There are just too many compromises in building the transformable 1/72 VF-25. A static one would be simply awesome. But honestly, I doubt we will see one.

Yeah, I understand that, is a cuestion of what detail you want, if you want a fighter model that is all.

But the people want a Variable fighter, that is the VF-25 at all, so under my point of view the VF-25s transformation is part of detail, like the engines in cars models, although we would display the model with down hood, they should have it.

Anyway I´m sure that the 1/48 versions come with exelent detail level at all levels

[shiroikaze]

Anyway I´m sure that the 1/48 versions come with exelent detail level at all levels

Pretty much.

Though if anyone wants it in fighter mode only, isn't it possible without revealing all the compromises?

[SchizophrenicMC]

On the note of non-anime accurate transformation, look at the PG Zeta! It's about perfect in its transformation, and it doesn't have gaudy hinges.

This is gonna be even bigger, which means hinges will be proportionally smaller. Do people complain about gawdy hinges on the 1/60 v.2? I can honestly say I don't remember the VF-1 being double-jointed at its elbows and knees.

[PetarB]

Can you tell me what are the "too many comprimises" are you talking about?

please enlighten me

Massive seams between panels

Out-of-scale landing gear

Out-of-scale cockpit and pilot

Huge out-of-scale hinges

Lack of alignment between parts

Heaviness from internal armature leading to sag

I could go on, but this is a start.

Having said all this, I still think its a brilliant kit! In fact I've got two, and will certainly purchase the one due in July. It's just that the compromises would not be there in a fighter-only version.

[ntsan]

And add to add the ankle of my RVF-25 broke while I was applying sticker on it! (guess too much paint applied on the joint..?)

Luckily still have my DX for playing, the feel on hand is day and night between toy and model

Any way there is lot of different camp in this discussion heh

[badboy00z]

I haven't built my PG Zeta yet but I heard it gets floppy. Not as bad as the MG V1 though.

[SchizophrenicMC]

I haven't built my PG Zeta yet but I heard it gets floppy. Not as bad as the MG V1 though.

I've heard that, too. However, I also heard that there are screws that secure several of the joints.

I'm taking this off of what I know of my cousin's PG Zeta. He is a Gunpla FANATIC. Got like 26 models in their boxes on a shelf in his closet, more on the floor.

I wanna get the PG Strike this summer...

[badboy00z]

I heard the Strike is pretty solid.

Any guess as to when the 25 will be out?

[shiroikaze]

At least another year, that's my guess.

[SchizophrenicMC]

I heard the Strike is pretty solid.

Any guess as to when the 25 will be out?

Strike is really solid. I saw it, once, on the front of one foot, in a crazy pose, completely solid.

Also, I wanna get the PG RX-78-2. That's been selling for 10 years, so it must be good.

And, I would guess it'll be a May 2010 release.

[Graham]

I'd guess it will be out by the end of this year. I don't think it will take Bandai another 12 months to get it out of the door.

Still undecided if I will buy this.

If it is transformable and if all the red and black markings are actually correctly colored plastic parts and not stickers or decals, I will buy it, if not, then not.

I still think there is a possibility (about 15% chance), that Bandai will go the Hasegawa route and make this a highly detailed non-transforming fighter mode only kit, which would be great for WM Cheng and all the other traditionalist model kit guys.

Graham

[badboy00z]

How long did it take the 1/72 to hit the market from the first prototype pictures?

[PetarB]

I still think there is a possibility (about 15% chance), that Bandai will go the Hasegawa route and make this a highly detailed non-transforming fighter mode only kit, which would be great for WM Cheng and all the other traditionalist model kit guys.

I would say, as per your percentage, that there's a very slim chance of that happening.