Bandai 1/48 Scale Macross Frontier Model Kit Thread

[Excillon]

Strike is really solid. I saw it, once, on the front of one foot, in a crazy pose, completely solid.

Also, I wanna get the PG RX-78-2. That's been selling for 10 years, so it must be good.

And, I would guess it'll be a May 2010 release.

I have 3 Strike Gundam PG's, all built and all I can say is too date it still remains the best PG kit. It can stand on one leg in a firing pose, do mad ninja poses, and that's all with the armor on, take the armor off and anything is possible. It even beats out it's retool/revamp version, the Red Frame in terms of articulation (red frames armor hinders it more).

I fully believe that this will be a PG kit. Bandai owes us a good non-gundam PG kit after sucky ass EVA-01. As someone who has built and owns all the PG gundams to date (not including the cheezy event exclusives except Casaval's RX-78) I welcome a non PG Gundam. Plus, it's an easy buck for them, because all they really need after a solid skeleton are minor retools on the heads and whatnot to make them all. I expect super packs also to come later, hopefully in a skygrasper style, with stands included, which aside from the strike is the biggest drawback to the line not having stands. I wasn't impressed with the 1/72 scale kits (although they were OK), and the 1/60 stuff I've heard only bad things about, so I really hope they get this one right. As someone who also owns 2 Zeta PG kits, I can tell you that they can definately do it right (the transforming kit), I have no doubt about that, it's more of a matter of whether they give the design as much love as the Zeta got.

[wm cheng]

I would say, as per your percentage, that there's a very slim chance of that happening.

Boo! sniff... sniff... ;-(

(never say never, I wasn't going to bite on the 1/72 scale... but I know have them all and will get the Armoured Ozma when it comes out...)

[cobywan]

I never would have imagined Bandai would do Gundam kits that were nearly as good as Tamiya kits. So who knows...

[SchizophrenicMC]

I have 3 Strike Gundam PG's, all built and all I can say is too date it still remains the best PG kit. It can stand on one leg in a firing pose, do mad ninja poses, and that's all with the armor on, take the armor off and anything is possible. It even beats out it's retool/revamp version, the Red Frame in terms of articulation (red frames armor hinders it more).

I fully believe that this will be a PG kit. Bandai owes us a good non-gundam PG kit after sucky ass EVA-01. As someone who has built and owns all the PG gundams to date (not including the cheezy event exclusives except Casaval's RX-78) I welcome a non PG Gundam. Plus, it's an easy buck for them, because all they really need after a solid skeleton are minor retools on the heads and whatnot to make them all. I expect super packs also to come later, hopefully in a skygrasper style, with stands included, which aside from the strike is the biggest drawback to the line not having stands. I wasn't impressed with the 1/72 scale kits (although they were OK), and the 1/60 stuff I've heard only bad things about, so I really hope they get this one right. As someone who also owns 2 Zeta PG kits, I can tell you that they can definately do it right (the transforming kit), I have no doubt about that, it's more of a matter of whether they give the design as much love as the Zeta got.

Th- THREE?!

Well, well, then. One for Kira, One for Mu, One for... Damn, there were only 2 Strikes...

You paint your pilots? If not, do one in Kira colors, one in Mu, and the other in red.

[shiroikaze]

I'm pretty sure a PG kit would have just as much detail as a Hasegawa kit with an added bonus. But then, I'm not really one to say...

Th- THREE?!

Well, well, then. One for Kira, One for Mu, One for... Damn, there were only 2 Strikes...

You paint your pilots? If not, do one in Kira colors, one in Mu, and the other in red.

What? Pink Gundam not to your taste?

Edited May 25, 2009 by shiroikaze

[SchizophrenicMC]

I'm pretty sure a PG kit would have just as much detail as a Hasegawa kit with an added bonus. But then, I'm not really one to say...

What? Pink Gundam not to your taste?

Strike Rouge (Sexy as hell) is not the same type of mobile suit. It's an MBF-02, not a GAT-X105.

PGs are as detailed as Hase's, even without paint.

Sometimes, they're more so. (Example: My cousin (Gunpla Cousin) has a Hase 1D. It pales in comparison to his PGs... Given, his painting skills lack a bit...)

Edited May 25, 2009 by SchizophrenicMC

[Excillon]

Th- THREE?!

Well, well, then. One for Kira, One for Mu, One for... Damn, there were only 2 Strikes...

You paint your pilots? If not, do one in Kira colors, one in Mu, and the other in red.

Yeah, Strike is my favorite Gundam in any series. It's so multi- functional, that's why I love it. I'd even buy a forth if they came up with sword and launcher packs. The RD versions just fall flat to me. Anyhow, I have a regular straight build Strike, one I airbrushed into Deactive mode, and another I got on the cheap and display with just the skeleton (Although I'm thinking of battle damaging the armor). I guess I actually have four if you count the Strike Rouge. I also have 3 Wing Zero Customs, but that was an accident. One that I bought, one I battle damaged ala EW, and unfortunately a 3rd my wife bought me, the awful ass pearl mirror coating (I hate special coating models) that's still sitting unbuilt. PG's/1/60/HY2M/G-system are my main collection focus, and seeing as how we just got a new one after 5 years, it means you end up with duplicates, and in some cases triplicates. The G-system conversions are nice as well. Next I want to build an entire platoon of PG Zaku's.

Back on topic, try not to be to hard on the first kit in the series. My first PG build was the Wing Zero, and it's no secret that the kit sucks compared to the others (Finicky LED's, really tight joints, super back heavy), I will probably buy one of or all the MF PG kits, however, unless the first gets a stellar review, I might wait for Ozma or Michel and give them a chance to work out some bugs before I go back. I really hope the same design team for the Strike builds these, I'd hate to see another interlocking type frame like the MK.II's, with a bunch of needless crap. The Strike frame is perfect, simple, yet VERY effective and functional. My only bitch is I build them too quick, my first Strike I built the Skeleton in one day.

Edited May 25, 2009 by Excillon

[SchizophrenicMC]

Yeah, Strike is my favorite Gundam in any series. It's so multi- functional, that's why I love it. I'd even buy a forth if they came up with sword and launcher packs. The RD versions just fall flat to me. Anyhow, I have a regular straight build Strike, one I airbrushed into Deactive mode, and another I got on the cheap and display with just the skeleton (Although I'm thinking of battle damaging the armor). I guess I actually have four if you count the Strike Rouge. I also have 3 Wing Zero Customs, but that was an accident. One that I bought, one I battle damaged ala EW, and unfortunately a 3rd my wife bought me, the awful ass pearl mirror coating (I hate special coating models) that's still sitting unbuilt. PG's/1/60/HY2M/G-system are my main collection focus, and seeing as how we just got a new one after 5 years, it means you end up with duplicates, and in some cases triplicates. The G-system conversions are nice as well. Next I want to build an entire platoon of PG Zaku's.

Back on topic, try not to be to hard on the first kit in the series. My first PG build was the Wing Zero, and it's no secret that the kit sucks compared to the others (Finicky LED's, really tight joints, super back heavy), I will probably buy one of or all the MF PG kits, however, unless the first gets a stellar review, I might wait for Ozma or Michel and give them a chance to work out some bugs before I go back. I really hope the same design team for the Strike builds these, I'd hate to see another interlocking type frame like the MK.II's, with a bunch of needless crap. The Strike frame is perfect, simple, yet VERY effective and functional. My only bitch is I build them too quick, my first Strike I built the Skeleton in one day.

Wow... Now, I REALLY want that Strike...

[shiroikaze]

Strike Rouge (Sexy as hell) is not the same type of mobile suit. It's an MBF-02, not a GAT-X105.

Oh, I did not know that.

Back on topic, try not to be to hard on the first kit in the series. My first PG build was the Wing Zero, and it's no secret that the kit sucks compared to the others (Finicky LED's, really tight joints, super back heavy)

Did they ever go back and update the kit and fix any of the problems or are they using the same mold to this very day?

It's not really a bad idea to wait and see for the perfect Perfect Grade. But I don't know if they'll actually do a line...

[Excillon]

Oh, I did not know that.

Did they ever go back and update the kit and fix any of the problems or are they using the same mold to this very day?

It's not really a bad idea to wait and see for the perfect Perfect Grade. But I don't know if they'll actually do a line...

Not that I know of. Both my built Zero's are ver. 1, and I haven't seen or heard otherwise. I'll have to check when/if I build my Pearl mirror ver., as that's the latest version made. I doubt it though, as I built the EVA PG and the extra coating EVA (another cheap buy at the time), and it's been a while but I don't remember any changes, and that kit needed them badly.

I think they will do a line of them, like I said, it would really only require different headsculpts/decals for the most part (except Luca). Unless they do a GP01/Tallgeese 1/100 HG type kit, with parts for 2 different valks and you build what you want. Hopefully there are waterslide or dry transfers though, I've never understood why a PG kit would come with stickers. However, they are pretty sheer and with some trimming look ok.

[Excillon]

Wow... Now, I REALLY want that Strike...

You should snag one. It's badass in Aile mode with the stand, the grand slam is awesome, and even though the Red Frame is a retool/update of it, the Strike still blows it out of the water. Pretty much anyone who has built even 2 PG's will tell you the Strike is the best one, and probably the best representation of an MS period. And the stickers make the kit, really. The Beecraft design is incredible. The armor even "shifts" and moves to allow more posing without interference. I would think to make a transformable PG VF you would have to use this method on a scale this size. I hope they also include metal parts/springs like on the Gundams, it really helps them by weighing down the legs. I think Gerwalk might be difficult though, it would be really off balance unless they found a way to shift parts of the skeleton to the approriate places to balance it.

[PetarB]

Gundam talk is banned from Macrossworld :lol:

[shiroikaze]

Gundam talk is banned from Macrossworld :lol:

Not unless we pepper it with bits of Macross

The armor even "shifts" and moves to allow more posing without interference. I would think to make a transformable PG VF you would have to use this method on a scale this size. I hope they also include metal parts/springs like on the Gundams, it really helps them by weighing down the legs. I think Gerwalk might be difficult though, it would be really off balance unless they found a way to shift parts of the skeleton to the approriate places to balance it.

What really? I didn't know that. Which PG gundam came with springs?

As for the PG VF in Gerwalk model, if they place most of the weight a little bit behind the center of the craft right between the legs, it should be able to balance. Unless they include a stand as a "fix" for Gerwalk... :\

The kit for sure has to come with a stand though.

What I'm wondering though, is how they're gonna make it not sag with all that weight.

Edited May 26, 2009 by shiroikaze

[Excillon]

Gundam talk is banned from Macrossworld :lol:

A-ha, but not in this case! I'm using gundam PG's as comparison against the possible PG VF...and if someone asks me a question about a Gundam kit, that would be just bad form not to answer...

Bottom line, I really hope it's an improvement over the 1/72. Without a true inner skeleton, it's pointless and I won't waste my time.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Excillon

[Excillon]

Not unless we pepper it with bits of Macross

What really? Which PG gundam had springs?

As for the PG VF in Gerwalk model, if they place most of the weight a little bit behind the center of the craft right between the legs, it should be able to balance. Unless they include a stand as a "fix" for Gerwalk... :\

The kit for sure has to come with a stand though.

What I'm wondering though, is how they're gonna make it not sag with all that weight.

Actually it shouldn't be a problem if you think about it, however the only ways to pull it off is make the inner frame modular, and connect/disconnect in various modes, or more likely, a torso that can split in half vertically on a hinge, flattening out for fighter/gerwalk mode. I guess actually you could make the frame REALLY skinny, but I don't think that would work given the weight of the armor, let alone FP/armor/etc.

[SchizophrenicMC]

I think with the tightness I've witnessed in PGs, I wouldn't worry too much about weight as long as people actually chicken-leg their GERWALK. GERWALK is NEVER seen with the legs STRAIGHT DOWN, but at a forward angle.

As long as the joints are tight and people angle their legs forward, the feet are big enough to support it.

[captain america]

PGs are as detailed as Hase's, even without paint.

Sometimes, they're more so. (Example: My cousin (Gunpla Cousin) has a Hase 1D. It pales in comparison to his PGs... Given, his painting skills lack a bit...)

Hasegawa, like Fine Molds, is a true model kit manufacturer: their crispness, attention to detail and ultra-fine recessed panel lines have never been matched, let alone surpassed by Bandai, who, for all intents and purposes, merely make highly-detailed toys that one must assemble one's self.

This isn't to say that Bandai is bad or inferior; I myself just love their Perfect Grades (and have snapped together more than a few with much pleasure) but if you stop and think about it, a PG is really just an overly-elaborate Kinder Egg toy... Without the awesome chocolate outer shell

[Excillon]

Hasegawa, like Fine Molds, is a true model kit manufacturer: their crispness, attention to detail and ultra-fine recessed panel lines have never been matched, let alone surpassed by Bandai, who, for all intents and purposes, merely make highly-detailed toys that one must assemble one's self.

This isn't to say that Bandai is bad or inferior; I myself just love their Perfect Grades (and have snapped together more than a few with much pleasure) but if you stop and think about it, a PG is really just an overly-elaborate Kinder Egg toy... Without the awesome chocolate outer shell

I'm going to have to respectfully (and I say that because your skills far surpass my own) disagree. While yes, it's an action figure, at the same time, I treat Hasegawa kits and Bandai kits as entirely different things. It's like a Green apple vs. a Red apple. Here's why:

Hasegawa kits are models, in the purest most traditional sense. Yes, they're detail is unmatched, however, construction is VERY simple. Even battroid kits, which have movable joints, are simple, even more so than the most basic 1/100 Gundam kit. Hase puts more emphasis on appearance, painting, etc.

Bandai PG's look great as well, even without paint. Unless I'm doing a custom scheme, I don't even paint mine, just washes/weathering. However, Bandai kits, especially MG and PG, focus more on the assembly side of things. Moving parts, very elaborate, more sturdy, and yes, made for light play. Personally, my paint skills are average, and I enjoy the construction more than painting and detailing, so these cater to me more.

Bottom line, PG's aren't 'toys', just a different form of model catering to a different crowd. I love building both types, but I'd never dare to call a PG a toy. I think that you just can't compare the two really, except to give both credit that they are models.

[captain america]

I'll have to agree that they are both very different in their approach. Not so much red versus green apple, as much as perhaps apple versus orange.

Hasegawa kits are models, in the purest most traditional sense. Yes, they're detail is unmatched, however, construction is VERY simple.

You've never built Hasegawa's 1/48 F-14 or F-18s, or Tamiya's 1/12 Williams FW-14B have you? They are many things, but not simple. In fact, they are infinitely more challenging since complexely-curved shapes must be both bonded and alligned, then skilfully puttied, sanded, lightly rescribed, and then painted; sometimes sub-assemblies must be painted and then inserted into another construct, whereby it must be carefully masked again to avoid overspray when painting the surrounding construct. And then you have decals (don't even get me started on those!) With a Perfect Grade, you just need to "assemble" and be able to exert enough strength to snap fit the parts together.

Even if one does decide to paint a PG, it barely (if at all) requires any skilful masking or puttying. They certainly do have more pieces in a kit than almost anything else I can think of by any other company, but more parts does not mean more complex. If anything, the only challenge I can think of comes from designing them.

Hase puts more emphasis on appearance, painting, etc.

Yes, because true models are made for display, to be enjoyed with one's eyes, not fingers

Bandai PG's look great as well, even without paint. Unless I'm doing a custom scheme, I don't even paint mine, just washes/weathering. However, Bandai kits, especially MG and PG, focus more on the assembly side of things. Moving parts, very elaborate, more sturdy, and yes, made for light play.

Made for light play... The operative word to describe a toy

That's the whole point I was trying to make. Bandai "kits" don't cultivate true modelling skills, such as painting, puttying, masking, sanding/finishing, decaling, etc. The very fact that most Gunpla "builders" just snap their kits together sans paint and slap-on stickers is pretty much what a Kinder Surprise toy is: molded in color, no glue required; just snap & apply stickers and voila: instant gratification.

Please don't take this as me poo-poo-ing on Bandai or MGs, or even your enjoyment of the latter, because I like them too. In fact, if/when that PG VF-25 comes out, I'm down for two without batting an eyelash--and this, from a guy who hasn't bought himself a "real" model kit in almost 4 years.The very fact that PGs are toy-like is what makes them so interesting to me, even if they aren't real models.

Edited May 26, 2009 by captain america

[Excillon]

I'll have to agree that they are both very different in their approach. Not so much red versus green apple, as much as perhaps apple versus orange.

Hasegawa kits are models, in the purest most traditional sense. Yes, they're detail is unmatched, however, construction is VERY simple.

You've never built Hasegawa's 1/48 F-14 or F-18s, or Tamiya's 1/12 Williams FW-14B have you? They are many things, but not simple. In fact, they are infinitely more challenging since complexely-curved shapes must be both bonded and alligned, then skilfully puttied, sanded, lightly rescribed, and then painted; sometimes sub-assemblies must be painted and then inserted into another construct, whereby it must be carefully masked again to avoid overspray when painting the surrounding construct. And then you have decals (don't even get me started on those!) With a Perfect Grade, you just need to "assemble" and be able to exert enough strength to snap fit the parts together.

Even if one does decide to paint a PG, it barely (if at all) requires any skilful masking or puttying. They certainly do have more pieces in a kit than almost anything else I can think of by any other company, but more parts does not mean more complex. If anything, the only challenge I can think of comes from designing them.

Hase puts more emphasis on appearance, painting, etc.

Yes, because true models are made for display, to be enjoyed with one's eyes, not fingers

Bandai PG's look great as well, even without paint. Unless I'm doing a custom scheme, I don't even paint mine, just washes/weathering. However, Bandai kits, especially MG and PG, focus more on the assembly side of things. Moving parts, very elaborate, more sturdy, and yes, made for light play.

Made for light play... The operative word to describe a toy

That's the whole point I was trying to make. Bandai "kits" don't cultivate true modelling skills, such as painting, puttying, masking, sanding/finishing, decaling, etc. The very fact that most Gunpla "builders" just snap their kits together sans paint and slap-on stickers is pretty much what a Kinder Surprise toy is: molded in color, no glue required; just snap & apply stickers and voila: instant gratification.

Please don't take this as me poo-poo-ing on Bandai or MGs, or even your enjoyment of the latter, because I like them too. In fact, if/when that PG VF-25 comes out, I'm down for two without batting an eyelash--and this, from a guy who hasn't bought himself a "real" model kit in almost 4 years.The very fact that PGs are toy-like is what makes them so interesting to me, even if they aren't real models.

Only Hasegawa's I've built are Macross. Those are simple, I'm sorry, not taking anything away from Wm cheng, HWR, or any other talented hase builders. And I rather liked the decals, never had a problem yet. I say complex because Hasegawa's have limited moving features, as PG's have TONS. PG's have there problems and challenges too, I remember swearing like a sailor at my Zeta and my Mk.II (those stupid gold springs that have to be just the right length through the PC. I play with my Battroids too sometimes, does that mean they're toys as well? I agree with most of what you said, the only area I disagree on is the "Toy" label. You should try G-systems stuff, conversion kit or even full blown 1/60 (I recommend Kampfer). Or if your really brave, the 1/35 RX-78 is incredible and you wouldn't dare call that a toy. I also disagree, to an extent, on the "snap and play" thing. This is true, I did it for a while, however, once I went from MG to PG, then to Hasegawa kits and back to Gundam kits, I found myself modding older kits like the Wing Zero Big scale, G Gundam 1/60 kits, etc. and making them better. I think a Gundam/Bandai kit, no matter what, is like any other kit from any other company, it's all what you put into it. I mean, I've even seen some incredible HG 1/144 builds that blow my stuff and most everyone else's out of the water. So I've rambled enough, I'm just saying that you can't generalize the snap and play thing because like anything else, it depends on the builder.

[anime52k8]

You've never built Hasegawa's 1/48 F-14 or F-18s, or Tamiya's 1/12 Williams FW-14B have you?

no, but I've been in the process of building a Hase 1/48 F-4E and F-15C for the last year. does that count for anything?

I think it's fare to say that a hasegawa kit is from a design standpoint much simpler than a bandai kit. the actual building process is obviously more complex, but looking strictly at the engineering that went into the kit, bandai's engineers deserve the bigger paycheck hands down.

A hase kit has to crisply and accurately replicate an intensive level detail and be easily injection molded, a Gundam kit needs to be mass producible and retain good levels of detail while still being extensively articulated, durable enough to survive repetitive posing, and need to be both consistent and intuitive enough that a 10 year old can build one out of the box with only common household items.)

That's the whole point I was trying to make. Bandai "kits" don't cultivate true modelling skills, such as painting, puttying, masking, sanding/finishing, decaling, etc. The very fact that most Gunpla "builders" just snap their kits together sans paint and slap-on stickers is pretty much what a Kinder Surprise toy is: molded in color, no glue required; just snap & apply stickers and voila: instant gratification.

Honestly, I've tried the whole "true" modeling thing. I got my first plastic model when I was 8 and have been doing it on and off ever since. over the last 11 years I've gone through dozens and dozens of kits, and still have about about a dozen more I need to build. after hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars, I've had a realization. I find absolutely nothing fun in modeling

Of all the plastic models I've built, I have all of 2 left, both car models. Every other kit I've ever built I've thrown out for one reason or another at this point. some were broken due to various cleaning and moving accidents, others were destroyed by failed build experiments, and most ended up looking like crap despite considerable care and effort on my part and found themselves in the trash can shortly after finishing them. By contrast, I currently have 6 have six surviving gunpla or about half of the kits I've owned not sub HGUC level gundam wing kits from back when gundam was almost popular in the US.

Everything about conventional model building I fined at best frustrating and at worse hazardous. I've burned myself, cut myself, smashed my fingers, torn off finger nails, jabbed myself with a running dremel, partially blacked out do to unintentional paint fume inhalation and gotten half molten plastic shavings in my eye. I swear model building has taken a decade off my life at least.

I think it's absolutely amazing when someone can take a pile of plastic parts and make something that looks like a real vehicle out of it, but I think that honestly some people just are not capable of building models. All the practice, patience and published how-to's in the world aren't going to make a difference if you aren't born with that inherent talent. I'm a strong believer that some people are just born better than others and there's nothing one can do about it.

True models are frankly a lot meaner spirited than gundam kits. Models are so demanding of YOU, they expect you to have all the skill and knowledge without any thought as to how you feel. Then if you don't live up to THEIR expectations they get all indigent and start to mock you. Gundam kits are so much more personable, with a gundam kit it's not about them, it's about YOU. A gundam kit never judges you or insults you if you arn't a master builder. A gundam kit just wants you to be happy with who you are.

Really, a Gundam kit is less like a model and more like a more complex set of LEGOs. I like LEGOs. Lego's are fun, peaceful toys. LEGOs aren't about being the best or a slave to detail and accuracy, they're about the the satisfaction of tinkering away with small parts until you have something that's nice to look at and fun to play with, all while giving you that little satisfaction at the back of your head that it was your hands and not the hands of some under payed Chinese factory worker that made it.

when I started writing this, I had some sort of point I was trying to get across, but I can't remember what it was anymore. anyways, all I want is a VF-25 battroid mode that's bigger and nicer looking than the DX, that doesn't take a lot of time and effort to make look nice on my shelf next to my other gunpla and yamato toy's. the VF-25's fighter mode is only so so anyways, and I'm more of a battroid mode person.

[Excillon]

dude don't feel bad, I've sliced my fingertips open and had to get stitches more than once, bathed my hands in nail polish remover and then sanded them to get rid of the super glue, and I also had a recent bad expierience with an airbrush and alcad II resulting in quite a head rush.

[wm cheng]

Hasegawa, like Fine Molds, is a true model kit manufacturer: their crispness, attention to detail and ultra-fine recessed panel lines have never been matched, let alone surpassed by Bandai, who, for all intents and purposes, merely make highly-detailed toys that one must assemble one's self.

This isn't to say that Bandai is bad or inferior; I myself just love their Perfect Grades (and have snapped together more than a few with much pleasure) but if you stop and think about it, a PG is really just an overly-elaborate Kinder Egg toy... Without the awesome chocolate outer shell

+1 (couldn't agree more, or said it better myself)

...yes, true modelers are a bit sadistic self torturing bunch, but its through this pain that we appreciate the final results

[SchizophrenicMC]

I'm gonna disagree with a few points here.

I've built a Hase, once. It went together just like a Tamiya or a Revell. Really simple, not too many parts. Puttied her up, sanded her down... Paint was too damned expensive. She looks horrid, now.

Given, this was no 1/48 F-14, but a cheapo model I got off of someone.

However, the Master Grade I built, not even getting into Perfect Grade yet, took 4 days and a lot of fiddling parts into the right positions. No paint, putty, or nothin' and she looks great. My cousin's Perfect Grade Strike (One of the most straightforward) took him, who's been into Gunpla for 13 years, a week and a half. He had to rebuild several sections a few times because he misarranged bits and pieces.

Finally, it was complete and looks uber-sexy.

What's the point?

Bandai, while not as great in detail as Hase, is still a model company that requires skill. All the "Display" modellers say that it's a "Snap-fit" so it must be simple, detailless, and brutishly assembled. However, a "Display" model only requires one to align major parts and apply glue. Small parts are a lot fewer and farther between in a "Display" model than a poseable model. I'm in no way saying that a "Display" model is simple. Far from it. I'm just saying that a poseable isn't simple, either. Each builds in its own token. A "Display" model means glue, paint, and putty. A poseable model means hundreds of tiny parts, each snapped into an exact position.

And the end result? With a "Display" model, the result is often better-looking. However, with a "Display" model, it's not just assembled but has paint added and lines smoothed. Smoothing lines is almost cheating. A poseable model, assembled without paint, is not puttied, and still looks pretty, damn good.

Now, all you "Display" modellers, stop hoping for a Bandai static. It's obvious they're going to cash in on the poseable market. Hope for that from Hasegawa. They're better at it, anyway.

-Schiz-crest out!

[Lolicon]

Why is the word "display" in quotations? Are we talking about a metaphorical display? Do people who talk about such models do more than display them? Is it a euphemism that I'm unaware of?

I thought this thread was about the upcoming 1/48 VF-25? This thread was interesting until it degenerated into gunpla talk and how awesome/lame Bandai is for their snap-fit models.

I'm cool with Bandai releasing a transforming 1/48 so long as it's not a pain to assemble. It's not like I'm some hardcore pro-modeler; I don't mind the snap-fit or poseability. But a model that's a pain to assemble is a pain to assemble, snap-fit or glued. The 1/72 has a number of stupid things about it, the most annoying being the crappy decals that are the wrong size and shape. That's unacceptable for a static or transforming model.

[anime52k8]

Why is the word "display" in quotations? Are we talking about a metaphorical display? Do people who talk about such models do more than display them? Is it a euphemism that I'm unaware of?

by "display" he means

buttsecks

[PetarB]

Interesting discussion.

Let's not derail the thread though! We need more pics from Bandai of the 1/48 to drool over...

[SchizophrenicMC]

Well, of the "display" models I've built, they rarely end up being displayed, but broken on the floor.

I hate it when my sisters come into my room :didn't we used to have a cry?:... I've lost many a good model or figure to them. CURSE YOU, KELLY AND RISSA!

At least poseables are a bit more durable...

[ruskiiVFaussie]

hMMM, hope she's variable, now i need to figure if i want to start 1/72 or 1/48, probably just have a fav in 1/48 and a full squad in 72. DX? piff.

Edited May 29, 2009 by ruskiiVFaussie

[Excillon]

hMMM, hope she's variable, now i need to figure if i want to start 1/72 or 1/48, probably just have a fav in 1/48 and a full squad in 72. DX? piff.

I've collected a lot of different toys in different scales, built a lot of models in different scales, and all I'm gonna say is when it comes to robots, BIGGER IS BETTER.

[Nightingale]

Hasegawa, like Fine Molds, is a true model kit manufacturer: their crispness, attention to detail and ultra-fine recessed panel lines have never been matched, let alone surpassed by Bandai, who, for all intents and purposes, merely make highly-detailed toys that one must assemble one's self.

This isn't to say that Bandai is bad or inferior; I myself just love their Perfect Grades (and have snapped together more than a few with much pleasure) but if you stop and think about it, a PG is really just an overly-elaborate Kinder Egg toy... Without the awesome chocolate outer shell

Agreed.

However, the Master Grade I built, not even getting into Perfect Grade yet, took 4 days and a lot of fiddling parts into the right positions. No paint, putty, or nothin' and she looks great. My cousin's Perfect Grade Strike (One of the most straightforward) took him, who's been into Gunpla for 13 years, a week and a half. He had to rebuild several sections a few times because he misarranged bits and pieces.

You and your cousin (especially if he has been doing Gunpla for 13 years) need some practice and lessons in basic building and following clearly drawn out step-by-step instructions. 4 days to build 1 MG is waaay to damn long, it took my 8 year just 6 hours to build a MG NT-1, now mind you I don't think he is ready to build a PG, but on average I can build one in about 10 hours (and PG Zaku is one of the most straightforward PGs, not Strike). Now, by build I mean exactly what you said, just snap and build straight oob, no painting or anything else done.

So either you guys need to get some schooling on building or you are overly exaggerating the times it took you to put together them toys. YES TOYS. Lets face it, current Bandai Gundam kits have been made for a younger market and don't compare to anything I grew up on. The Gundam Kits of old were very much like the Hasegawa kits of today (except old Gundam Kits lacked tons of detail) in that you needed glue, paint, and some skill to complete.

Now I love Gundam kits (even some of the new ones coming out), I'd bought them since I was a youngling, but they are now just build 'em yourself toys that do not require much on the part of the builder (can't call the person a modeler unless they paint and take care of seamlines ) but they do not compare with other kits as far as detail goes, such as Fine Molds or Hasegawa.

[Excillon]

Agreed.

You and your cousin (especially if he has been doing Gunpla for 13 years) need some practice and lessons in basic building and following clearly drawn out step-by-step instructions. 4 days to build 1 MG is waaay to damn long, it took my 8 year just 6 hours to build a MG NT-1, now mind you I don't think he is ready to build a PG, but on average I can build one in about 10 hours (and PG Zaku is one of the most straightforward PGs, not Strike). Now, by build I mean exactly what you said, just snap and build straight oob, no painting or anything else done.

So either you guys need to get some schooling on building or you are overly exaggerating the times it took you to put together them toys. YES TOYS. Lets face it, current Bandai Gundam kits have been made for a younger market and don't compare to anything I grew up on. The Gundam Kits of old were very much like the Hasegawa kits of today (except old Gundam Kits lacked tons of detail) in that you needed glue, paint, and some skill to complete.

Now I love Gundam kits (even some of the new ones coming out), I'd bought them since I was a youngling, but they are now just build 'em yourself toys that do not require much on the part of the builder (can't call the person a modeler unless they paint and take care of seamlines ) but they do not compare with other kits as far as detail goes, such as Fine Molds or Hasegawa.

As the proud owner of both the Zaku and Strike PG's, I will tell you that you are totally wrong. I have multiples of BOTH kits, I've built 4 Strike kits to date, and 6 Zaku's. Zaku is A LOT more of a pain in the ass than the Strike, I can build a Strike in 7 hours flat now, A Zaku, with all those finicky hoses? The minor, annoying fit issues? As someone who has just built the Red frame as well, I can tell you for a FACT that PG's are getting more straightforward as they go on, and last I checked Strike came a few YEARS after the Zaku II. So MC is right on that one. Didn't you notice how many LESS screws there were between the 2 kits? And an NT-1 ? Whoopie. My Daughter built the Strike Rouge MG and the Wing Zero Custom when she was 8, and she built the Zeta 2.0 about 6 months ago at age 9, and they actually has an inner frame of sorts. I agree yes, that they have gotten easier to cater to a younger market. However, I don't think it's fair you're bashing on MC about his model skills (who's fairly young himself, no offense MC), everyone has to start somewhere for one, and two, if he wants to practice patience building his kits, and make them come out a little better, then good for him. And so he makes mistakes, we all do. I still make the occasional flub, I had to rip apart an MK.II chest 3 weeks ago because I didn't fit the pilot chair and pilot in the cockpit right. So what? Does that mean I have to go back to school? I'm a fully trained and educated machinist who can use Pro engineer, Autocad, XP100, and Mastercam and have probably seen more blueprints and schematics than most people in their lifetimes. And I messed up on something as simple as a cockpit seat. Oh well, sh*t happens. Maybe you should go back to school, and learn some BASIC social skills (maybe your 8 year old could teach you) so you don't come off so unjustly condescending.

Now that I got that out of the way, I looked at those pics again, and can anyone see any kind of separations where things would move? I've been combing over it nightly and I still can't see any. Either that's just a total mock up, or it's a really good sign if it is a variable...

Edited May 29, 2009 by Excillon

[anime52k8]

You and your cousin (especially if he has been doing Gunpla for 13 years) need some practice and lessons in basic building and following clearly drawn out step-by-step instructions. 4 days to build 1 MG is waaay to damn long, it took my 8 year just 6 hours to build a MG NT-1, now mind you I don't think he is ready to build a PG, but on average I can build one in about 10 hours (and PG Zaku is one of the most straightforward PGs, not Strike). Now, by build I mean exactly what you said, just snap and build straight oob, no painting or anything else done.

I'm going to agree with him on this one. If you're not painting and it takes you more than 1 afternoon to finish about 90 percent of the MG kits out there you're doing something wrong. heck, even I PG GP-01 took me less than 20 hours and at the time I built it I had a lot less that "13 years experience."

But in defense of Bandai models, I think it's unfair to bash them just because they're easier to build out the box. Maybe I've been mislead but I've always been under the impression that what defines a true model builder is the effort they put into the build and not what kit they're building. Honestly, I've seen just as many people who build gundam models that produced exceptional finished work as I have good traditional builds and In some way's I find there's a lot more skill being demonstrated by those gundam builders than the traditional builders. The people who put the real effort into their Gundam kits do just as much if not more to their kits to make them look good as any traditional builder and they do it all to something that isn't conducive to that style of build.

As far as Conventional models go, I find that Hase and Tamiya kits really involve the least amount of skill to make something good. I feel like the people with the most skill are the ones who can take a cheap, junky kit and turn it into something amazing. I've seen quite a few builds where people have taken a POS Ravell or Italeri kit (the kind of stuff you find buried with the cheap toys in the back of Walgreen's) and turned them into something that blows away most of the Japanese kit builds out there.

I also don't think that it's a bad thing that the minimum skill level needed to make gunpla look passable is very low. To turn out something REALLY good you're still going to have to do just as much work as you would on a conventional model, so what's wrong with making it possible for someone who isn't at that level able to make something they're happy with too. I don't think I'll ever fully understand this elitist attitude of if it doesn't punish you for not meeting the minimum height skill requirements, it's an inferior product.

anyways, it's not like all people who build static models are part of an elite core that are superior to all those snap-fit loving troglodytes either. There are a hell of a lot of people who buy static models, slap them together with way to much cheap testators glue and little to no paint and call it a finished model. You just tend not to notice them as much because there's a lot more shame involved in showing models that aren't absolutely perfect.

Edited May 29, 2009 by anime52k8

[Nightingale]

But in defense of Bandai models, I think it's unfair to bash them just because they're easier to build out the box.

I wasn't bashing them, I still buy a lot of Bandai kits, but I was just saying overall they don't really compare with other companies like Fine Molds ets etc when it comes to attention to detail because of lot of these kits are now meant to be build 'em yourself toys.

I'm going to agree with him on this one. If you're not painting and it takes you more than 1 afternoon to finish about 90 percent of the MG kits out there you're doing something wrong. heck, even I PG GP-01 took me less than 20 hours and at the time I built it I had a lot less that "13 years experience."

And an NT-1 ? Whoopie. My Daughter built the Strike Rouge MG and the Wing Zero Custom when she was 8, and she built the Zeta 2.0 about 6 months ago at age 9, and they actually has an inner frame of sorts. I agree yes, that they have gotten easier to cater to a younger market.

You just expressed my point: so easy, a kid can do it with no probs, which makes me question what he and his cousin are doing wrong?

Maybe you should go back to school, and learn some BASIC social skills (maybe your 8 year old could teach you) so you don't come off so unjustly condescending.

Social skills are over rated on teh internets.

[Valk009]

I totally agree with the Captain, Hasegawa makes true model kits for true modellers. You cannot complete a Hasegawa kit without a tube of putty, model cement glue and paint to get a halfway decent finish.

BanDai, on the other hand, though also a very respective model kit producer, makes kit more of a toy nature. Their pre colour molding, no glue snap fit finish and hidden sprue points make them well loved by less skilled modellers and enjoyed by toy buyers.