Variable Fighter heavy weapons

[Mr March]

A discussion recently arose on the forums that got me thinking more about variable fighter heavy weapons. Or to be more specific, the topic made me think about those high-firepower valkyrie weapons in Macross which go largely unnoticed because they aren't specifically designated as heavy weapons even though they appear to be heavy weapons in practice. I suppose the problem identifying heavy weapons is that unless they have some spectacular visual effect (like an Itano circus or big beam gun) no one thinks much of them. But Macross has often shown firepower through more conventional means like penetration. The XS-06 long-range high-piercing-round gun pod was shown blasting through a Varauta frigate, the two-part prototype heavy blaster was seen blowing up a Uraga carrier and the The SSL-9B Dragunov sniper rifle was enough to destroy even the most heavily armored enemy, but none of them had particularly spectacular visual effects.

So I looked over the statistics of the Macross valkyries and I found a semi-consistent theme. When a heavy weapon is described in the literature, it seems to be designated using terms like high-speed, armor-penetrating, high-powered, high-piercing-round, high-velocity or anti-ship. There are a few exceptions where heavy weapons are not described as such yet they are shown in the animation as very powerful weapons (such as the VF-17 Nightmare gun pod beam adaptor). There is also at least one exception where a high-powered weapon doesn't appear to be a heavy weapon (the VF-22 Sturmvogel II has a "fixed high-powered converging energy cannon"). But for the most part, it seems that the writers do identify most variable fighter heavy weapons with some kind of distinguishing language in the official write-ups.

Heavy Weapons, All-eras:

large-size anti-ship reaction missiles (mounted on any variable fighter)

Heavy Weapons, Space War I-era:

Mauler RO-X2A high-powered double-action beam cannon pod (found on the VF-1S Strike Valkyrie)

18 x Erlikon GA-100 Crusher high-speed armor-penetrating projectiles (found on the VF-1J GBP-1S Armored Valkyrie)

Heavy Weapons, 2012-2044:

Large beam cannons (found on the VF-4 Lightning III)

heavy weapon cluster (found on the YF-19, used by Isamu to destroy a Destroid Monster)

Heavy Weapons, 2045-2047:

XS-06 long-range high-piercing-round gun pod (found on the VF-11C Thunderbolt Protect Armor, used by Kinryu to penetrate and destroy a Varauta Vanguard Frigate)

gun pod beam adapter (found on the VF-17S Nightmare, used by Gamlin to repeatedly shoot down Gavil's fighter/bomber in one shot)

two-part prototype heavy blaster (found on the Fz-109F Elgerzorene, used by Gigile to destroy a Uraga Class Escort Battle Carrier)

Heavy Weapons, 2048-2059:

SSL-9B Dragunov Electromagnetic Rail Anti-Armor Sniper Rifle with ultra-high-speed armor-piercing ammunition (found on the VF-25G Messiah)

Ohto/Sentinel 57mm anti-warship anti-air rapid-fire swiveling beam turrets (found on the VF-25S APS-25A/MF25 Armored Messiah)

30 x 200mm anti-armor high-initial-velocity rockets (found on the VF-25S APS-25A/MF25 Armored Messiah)

heavy quantum beam gun (found on the VF-171EX Nightmare Plus)

BGP-01β 55mm heavy quantum reaction beam gun pod / beam grenade (found on the VF-27 Lucifer)

I think these are supposed to be the big guns for the valkyries, used against large and heavily armored targets or even against warships. What do you think?

[SchizophrenicMC]

Well, it makes sense. The VFs are nothing without their modular weapons capacity.

We know the VF-25F can carry the SSL-9B, and that any VF-1 can mount a GPB-1S, Strike Pack, or the reaction warheads.

It's like a real fighter, in which the payload can be selected by the pilot, according to the mission's needs. I can definitely see the use of a heavy gunpod, over the norm, somewhat similar to loading a rocket pod in place of the gunpods on the Hawker Harrier.

[edwin3060]

I wonder if the VF-25 could be modified to mount this:BGP-01β 55mm heavy quantum reaction beam gun pod / beam grenade Maybe it would show up in the movie.

OTOH, I'm not sure if this:

Ohto/Sentinel 57mm anti-warship anti-air rapid-fire swiveling beam turrets (found on the VF-25S APS-25A/MF25 Armored Messiah)

is really a heavy weapon since we didn't see it really take out any warships. The calibre is same as that of the gunpod as well so I'm not sure how we can justify it's effectiveness. It could be another case like the YF-22S.

I'm also not sure if we can classify itano-circus-allowing missiles as heavy weapons-- yes, combined they are pretty deadly at taking out multiple or single targets, but individually each missile is probably quite weak? That would be like saying that the gunpod is a heavy anti-ship weapon because if it fired off all its ammunition it could probably damage a ship?

Still, I think this is a great effort by you which showcases how the writers try to emphasize different aspects of the weapon in order to differentiate them more

[Mr March]

SchizophrenicMC

Yeah, the modular nature of the variable fighter weapons appears to make them great for all kinds of missions. The variable fighters themselves are highly versatile and capable of all kinds of varied roles. But I never really examined the weapons in terms of standard vs. heavy armament. It was a fun exercise.

edwin3060

Hmmm, I'm not sure I follow. The SSL-9B Dragunov Sniper Rifle uses 55mm ammunition, but it's clearly far more powerful than the 58mm GU-17A gun pod. We're also talking beam weapons, for which the size rating has an unknown meaning since beams weapons do not use physical projectiles. At any rate, if the 57mm beam guns are labeled "anti-ship", we're definitely talking heavy weapon.

[azrael]

edwin3060

Hmmm, I'm not sure I follow. The SSL-9B Dragunov Sniper Rifle uses 55mm ammunition, but it's clearly far more powerful than the 58mm GU-17A gun pod.

Just to add, current sharpshooters/marksmen use special ammunition for their weapons. It's equivalent to match-grade ammo. Often hand-loaded by the user. So while it may look like normal ammo, it certainly does not act like it. So while a SP-55X may fit an olde GU-11, chances of it working in a GU-11 are highly questionable.

[Bri]

Very interesting topic. Some questions, are there any non-standard weapons that are not heavy weapons?

Macross seems to use mission types for weapon selections. Each mission type might have a preselected weapons package which may or may not be classed as heavy.

Some examples from the top of my head: Hikaru's VF-1S gets decked out in Anti-ship reaction weapons for the attack on Bodolza's fleet as Exedols battle plan aims to attack the 2000 command ships of the Bodolza fleet. Misa scolds Hikaru for using an armor pack for a patrol mission.

Birla authorises super and armor packs for V3 type missions in Fontier 1.

So by this definitition if a VF25G flies with just the Sniper Rifle then it's armed with a heavy weapon but still carries a light mission pack? And vice versa if a VF carries superpacks with only Air to Air missle clusters it is using light weapons?

Edited May 12, 2009 by Bri

[anime52k8]

Just to add, current sharpshooters/marksmen use special ammunition for their weapons. It's equivalent to match-grade ammo. Often hand-loaded by the user. So while it may look like normal ammo, it certainly does not act like it. So while a SP-55X may fit an olde GU-11, chances of it working in a GU-11 are highly questionable.

just an addition to your addition, Just because two rounds are the same caliber does not make them the same round. example: all the fallowing are .30 caliber (7.62mm) rounds.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Further, the round, while smaller, is launched at much higher speed, and appears to be a "hybrid" round.

In some science fiction, a Hybrid Round is a physical weapons round that is charged with energy, surrounded by plasma, or the like. It's a directed energy weapon, as well as a physical weapon, thus Hybrid.

Since it's known to be a physical round, but it has the blue trail, even in space, I believe it to be a hybrid round.

This would further explain its effectiveness, despite smaller size, since it would have more penetrative capability, being surrouned by superheated plasma.

[Mr March]

Just to add, current sharpshooters/marksmen use special ammunition for their weapons. It's equivalent to match-grade ammo. Often hand-loaded by the user. So while it may look like normal ammo, it certainly does not act like it. So while a SP-55X may fit an olde GU-11, chances of it working in a GU-11 are highly questionable.

I'd agree. From just the description of the SP-55X 55mm round, and by virtue of the much smaller ammunition load of the SSL-9B Dragunov, I'd say the same diameter size of the round belies a many other significant differences between the GU-11 round and the SP-55X round. Clearly the SP-55X 55mm round weighs a lot more than a standard shell, especially if they are using really dense materials like gold (super polymerized gold cartridge covered in super-hard metal). We also don't know the length or weight of the round.

Very interesting topic. Some questions, are there any non-standard weapons that are not heavy weapons?

Macross seems to use mission types for weapon selections. Each mission type might have a preselected weapons package which may or may not be classed as heavy.

Some examples from the top of my head: Hikaru's VF-1S gets decked out in Anti-ship reaction weapons for the attack on Bodolza's fleet as Exedols battle plan aims to attack the 2000 command ships of the Bodolza fleet. Misa scolds Hikaru for using an armor pack for a patrol mission.

Birla authorises super and armor packs for V3 type missions in Fontier 1.

So by this definitition if a VF25G flies with just the Sniper Rifle then it's armed with a heavy weapon but still carries a light mission pack? And vice versa if a VF carries superpacks with only Air to Air missle clusters it is using light weapons?

I assume most micro-missile launchers are not heavy weapons, even though they may not be not standard weapons on a given valkyrie. Examples of other non-standard but not heavy weapons could be the grenades on the VF-0S Reactive Armor and VF-1J GBP-1S Armored Valkyrie and the shoulder-mounted laser guns on the VF-11C Protect Armor.

Well the term "heavy weapon" is just a generalized term to describe any weapon that possesses more firepower than the standard valkyrie weapons. Now what those weapons are used for specifically is a totally different story. For example, the XS-06 long-range high-piercing-round gun pod and the SSL-9B Dragunov Sniper Rifle are both heavy weapons possessing much more firepower than a standard valkyrie gun pod. But the XS-06 is a rapid-fire, general purpose weapon while the SSL-9B is a semi-automatic, precision strike weapon.

It appears that some heavy weapons are part of more elaborate hardware (such as the Mauler RO-X2A high-powered double-action beam cannon pod on the VF-1S Strike Valkyrie) while other heavy weapons can be carried simply as optional hardware easily afixed upon any standard valkyrie (such as the SSL-9B Dragunov Sniper Rifle loaded onto a VF-25G Messiah or a VF-171 Nightmare Plus).

just an addition to your addition, Just because two rounds are the same caliber does not make them the same round. example: all the fallowing are .30 caliber (7.62mm) rounds.

Very true. Given the extensive description of the SP-55X round, it's pretty clear it's something much different than the norm.

Further, the round, while smaller, is launched at much higher speed, and appears to be a "hybrid" round.

This would further explain its effectiveness, despite smaller size, since it would have more penetrative capability, being surrouned by superheated plasma.

It may be a smaller diameter, but it's likely a much larger round in length and weight. After all, if that huge SSL-9B Dragunov Sniper Rifle can only hold 12+1 rounds while a much smaller GU-11 gun pod can hold 200 rounds, the SP-55X 55mm round must be significantly longer and heavier. At least, I would think so.

[SchizophrenicMC]

I'd agree. From just the description of the SP-55X 55mm round, and by virtue of the much smaller ammunition load of the SSL-9B Dragunov, I'd say the same diameter size of the round belies a many other significant differences between the GU-11 round and the SP-55X round. Clearly the SP-55X 55mm round weighs a lot more than a standard shell, especially if they are using really dense materials like gold (super polymerized gold cartridge covered in super-hard metal). We also don't know the length or weight of the round.

It may be a smaller diameter, but it's likely a much larger round in length and weight. After all, if that huge SSL-9B Dragunov Sniper Rifle can only hold 12+1 rounds while a much smaller GU-11 gun pod can hold 200 rounds, the SP-55X 55mm round must be significantly longer and heavier. At least, I would think so.

That said, the GU-11 uses a belt and a larger magazine. The SSL-9B uses a 12 round removable clip magzine, similar to that of the VF-19. By their very nature, these hold fewer rounds.

Now, I'm in no way disagreeing with what you said. I said smaller and meant "in diameter."

I would assume a super-dense round uses Tungsten, as it is hard and dense; perfect for this application. Further, it takes well to plasma, as we see in lightbulbs. This would further support my Hybrid Theory (12 points if you get the joke).

[anime52k8]

I'd agree. From just the description of the SP-55X 55mm round, and by virtue of the much smaller ammunition load of the SSL-9B Dragunov, I'd say the same diameter size of the round belies a many other significant differences between the GU-11 round and the SP-55X round. Clearly the SP-55X 55mm round weighs a lot more than a standard shell, especially if they are using really dense materials like gold (super polymerized gold cartridge covered in super-hard metal). We also don't know the length or weight of the round.

I think there has to be more to the use of gold in these rounds than just density. both Tungsten and DU are both some 70+ percent denser than gold, even lead is slightly more dense. Like some people have speculated in other threads the use of gold probably has more to do with conductive properties.

This would further support my Hybrid Theory (12 points if you get the joke).

BOO! bad Linkin Park joke

[SchizophrenicMC]

I think there has to be more to the use of gold in these rounds than just density. both Tungsten and DU are both some 70+ percent denser than gold, even lead is slightly more dense. Like some people have speculated in other threads the use of gold probably has more to do with conductive properties.

BOO! bad Linkin Park joke

The worst part is, I was on a Collison Course with that pun.

Anyway, the SSL-9B is a railgun, so it must fire a ferric round.

Ferric Tungsten, anyone?

This furthers my theory, somewhat, since the high amount of energy that is used to fire a railgun can magnetize a round, as well as surround it in superheated plasma if certain conditions with temperature and material are met.

[Mr March]

That said, the GU-11 uses a belt and a larger magazine. The SSL-9B uses a 12 round removable clip magzine, similar to that of the VF-19. By their very nature, these hold fewer rounds.

Now, I'm in no way disagreeing with what you said. I said smaller and meant "in diameter."

I would assume a super-dense round uses Tungsten, as it is hard and dense; perfect for this application. Further, it takes well to plasma, as we see in lightbulbs. This would further support my Hybrid Theory (12 points if you get the joke).

Collision Course was much better because Encore/Numb rocks (big Jay-Z fan here)

Not sure about plasma. What kind of interaction has to happen for it to turn into plasma? I mean, from the description of the round, the thing is obviously designed to be some super-strong projectile. I can't imagine they'd go through all the trouble of polymerizing and super-hardening the round if it was just going to be blown into a super-heated gas with each firing.

I think there has to be more to the use of gold in these rounds than just density. both Tungsten and DU are both some 70+ percent denser than gold, even lead is slightly more dense. Like some people have speculated in other threads the use of gold probably has more to do with conductive properties.

Well I was writing only in terms of size and weight. The ferromagnetic gold is obviously part of the electromagnetic rail system in the cannon itself. Though I suppose the "super-polymers" and the "super-hard metal" may have other properties of which we aren't aware that could contribute to the density of the round. Point being, you don't build a gun like that and then use it to fire light weight rounds, not if you really want to seize advantage of it's destructive capabilities (which is the reason for building the thing in the first place).

[anime52k8]

Collision Course was much better because Encore/Numb rocks (big Jay-Z fan here)

I preferred Meteora, much better album. actually my favorite is Live in Texas... the live versions are awesome and the DVD is a nice extra.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Collision Course was much better because Encore/Numb rocks (big Jay-Z fan here)

Not sure about plasma. What kind of interaction has to happen for it to turn into plasma? I mean, from the description of the round, the thing is obviously designed to be some super-strong projectile. I can't imagine they'd go through all the trouble of polymerizing and super-hardening the round if it was just going to be blown into a super-heated gas with each firing.

Well I was writing only in terms of size and weight. The ferromagnetic gold is obviously part of the electromagnetic rail system in the cannon itself. Though I suppose the "super-polymers" and the "super-hard metal" may have other properties of which we aren't aware that could contribute to the density of the round. Point being, you don't build a gun like that and then use it to fire light weight rounds, not if you really want to seize advantage of it's destructive capabilities (which is the reason for building the thing in the first place).

Well, plasma is formed when matter is exposed to a specific amount of heat or energy levels.

If you ever put a lightbulb in a microwave, you will see plasma run along the surface of the inside, generated as the Tungsten filament changes phase from solid to plasma. Using a ferromagnetic round in a railgun, one could theoretically generate plasma on the external surface and prevent its dissipation though the magnetic field generated in the round. It would take a lot of calculations to get it to fire correctly, but when the sweet spot is found, the round would have better penetration, since it doesn't only rely on impact, but superheated plasma cutting through the target as it contacts it.

I preferred Meteora, much better album. actually my favorite is Live in Texas... the live versions are awesome and the DVD is a nice extra.

Agreed.

[edwin3060]

Hmm the use of plasma would present tonnes of difficulties-- and if plasma was the intended use in the first place, there are better materials to use than tungsten--which is a dense metal and would require more energy to accelerate, ionise etc. Also, plasma has the irritating tendency to dissipate, making it a poor choice for a penetrating weapon. For some things, good old DU is still the best

Again, the whole wording for the SP-55X 55mm ammunition description is quite dubious, IMO. A cartridge doesn't follow the bullet downrange-- it stays in the chamber and I assume is ejected when the VF cycles the weapon-- so I don't get the point of it being covered in a super hard metal, nor the use of gold.

Now, if the cartridge was a sabot instead, or maybe a throwback to the olden days of muskets, just a bullet, then possibly the gold was there for its electrical properties (and/or magnetic properties in the case of nanogold) and the hard metal covering would be there to prevent degradation of the round due to friction while being accelerated, and to improve penetration.

P.S. I know my firearms just fine, thank you. I was pointing out whether we could really determine the firepower of those beam guns from the name, and no proof shown in the anime, since Mr March himself pointed out that "the VF-22 Sturmvogel II has a "fixed high-powered converging energy cannon"" which was no more than just the head laser.

[Mr March]

Well, plasma is formed when matter is exposed to a specific amount of heat or energy levels.

If you ever put a lightbulb in a microwave, you will see plasma run along the surface of the inside, generated as the Tungsten filament changes phase from solid to plasma. Using a ferromagnetic round in a railgun, one could theoretically generate plasma on the external surface and prevent its dissipation though the magnetic field generated in the round. It would take a lot of calculations to get it to fire correctly, but when the sweet spot is found, the round would have better penetration, since it doesn't only rely on impact, but superheated plasma cutting through the target as it contacts it.

I don't think plasma is part of this specific weapon, at least not a total conversion anyway. Conversion to plasma would probably have been mentioned before and the gun would most likely be classified as a particle projection weapon if total conversion took place. The plasma would also scatter upon firing and accuracy with it would be nowhere near as good as it's described. Having said that, there would be a certain amount of intense heat involved in the process, so the round itself is probably very hot. The glowing trail could be plasma, or visible gases (like the missiles), coolant, or other ejected materials.

Hmm the use of plasma would present tonnes of difficulties-- and if plasma was the intended use in the first place, there are better materials to use than tungsten--which is a dense metal and would require more energy to accelerate, ionise etc. Also, plasma has the irritating tendency to dissipate, making it a poor choice for a penetrating weapon. For some things, good old DU is still the best

Again, the whole wording for the SP-55X 55mm ammunition description is quite dubious, IMO. A cartridge doesn't follow the bullet downrange-- it stays in the chamber and I assume is ejected when the VF cycles the weapon-- so I don't get the point of it being covered in a super hard metal, nor the use of gold.

Now, if the cartridge was a sabot instead, or maybe a throwback to the olden days of muskets, just a bullet, then possibly the gold was there for its electrical properties (and/or magnetic properties in the case of nanogold) and the hard metal covering would be there to prevent degradation of the round due to friction while being accelerated, and to improve penetration.

P.S. I know my firearms just fine, thank you. I was pointing out whether we could really determine the firepower of those beam guns from the name, and no proof shown in the anime, since Mr March himself pointed out that "the VF-22 Sturmvogel II has a "fixed high-powered converging energy cannon"" which was no more than just the head laser.

I agree, I don't think it's a plasma gun. If it were, it would be called a plasma gun, especially since they have plasma guns in Macross (like the gun Alto used to defeat the Vajra, taken from the dead Zentradi in the power armor).

As for the shell itself, I think the official description is just using cartridge as a catch-all for the projectile. I suppose the SSL-9B Dragunov could use cartridged bullets, but I fail to see the point of doing so in an electromagnetic rail gun. One of the main advantages of a rail gun is non-cartridge ammunition and utilizing the effects of kinetic energy to cause damage without the need for explosives.

Personally, the SSL-9B doesn't sound like a traditional gun. It appears to operate more like an artillery piece, especially given it's size and function. Since it is a rail gun, the projectile would most likely be similar to a kinetic energy penetrator, like what they use in tanks and mobile guns.

[Killer Robot]

I think there has to be more to the use of gold in these rounds than just density. both Tungsten and DU are both some 70+ percent denser than gold, even lead is slightly more dense. Like some people have speculated in other threads the use of gold probably has more to do with conductive properties.

Other way around, lead is the light one out. By Wikipedia:

Gold: 19.3 g/cm³

Tungsten: 19.25 g/cm³

DU: 19.1 g/cm³

Lead: 11.3 g/cm³

All the same, you're right that gold must not have been chosen just for density: it's only a tiny bit denser than DU or the much harder tungsten but differs in being much more conductive, and might have other relevant properties that haven't been raised yet.

As for the cartridge vs. bullet discussion, I'm suspecting awkward translation there, if anything. If it's a railgun the "cartridge" defined as the whole unit that goes in the magazine is going to be different in design than the cartridge of a conventional firearm, not needing primer or propellant as used with chemical guns. Some railgun designs can use a sabot, but even that is going to have a different structure and function than in a conventional weapon. Even if it's some sort of weird chemical/electromagnetic hybrid gun, the phrasing just doesn't match up if it's talking about a case or sabot - it pretty clearly is speaking of the projectile.

[Mr March]

As for the cartridge vs. bullet discussion, I'm suspecting awkward translation there, if anything. If it's a railgun the "cartridge" defined as the whole unit that goes in the magazine is going to be different in design than the cartridge of a conventional firearm, not needing primer or propellant as used with chemical guns. Some railgun designs can use a sabot, but even that is going to have a different structure and function than in a conventional weapon. Even if it's some sort of weird chemical/electromagnetic hybrid gun, the phrasing just doesn't match up if it's talking about a case or sabot - it pretty clearly is speaking of the projectile.

I agree that the text is clearly talking about a projectile and not a casing or cartridge. After all, why go through all that description of ultra-high-speed armor-piercing munitions made of gold, super-polymers and super-hard metals if one isn't talking about the projectile itself? It certainly isn't the cartridge/sabot that is penetrating 300mm of GFS-a2 composite Destroid armor

I think the rail gun bullets will be like kinetic energy penetrators. I've attached two pictures, one of a kinetic energy penetrator from a tank cannon and a picture of a round used in rail guns. The two projectiles certainly have a very similar size and shape. While the diameter of the Dragunov round might be 55mm, these are big projectiles of more significant length than a bullet. The SSL-9B's clip is certainly very wide and if it holds the ammunition vertically, the projectiles would indeed be very long.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Mr March

[azrael]

Even if it's some sort of weird chemical/electromagnetic hybrid gun, the phrasing just doesn't match up if it's talking about a case or sabot - it pretty clearly is speaking of the projectile.

IIRC, early texts describe the SP-55X as "conventional ammunition". It was only later that they gave this "conventional ammunition" a designation, namely "SP-55X". And those text (one of the early issues of the Chronicle) describes the sniper rifle as a gun that uses gunpowder/propellant and electromagnetic rails to accelerate the round/bullet/projectile. So it sounded more like a hybrid weapon than a "true" rail gun. Later texts haven't bothered to repeat the wording. Now the Chronicle's VF-25G article may clear it up but until then:

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...st&p=737188

Edit: Correction, they have repeated it in the 1/72 kit manual. It describes the SP-55X using gunpowder/propellant and then gets a boost from the rails.

And everything I've seen calls it a "SSL-9B Dragunov Anti-Armor Sniper Rifle", not "SSL-9B Dragunov Electromagnetic Rail Anti-Armor Sniper Rifle".

[SchizophrenicMC]

Well, my basis for the use of plasma is the very element that would possibly prevent its dissipation:

The generation of a magnetic field in the ferrous tungsten, which would hold the plasma in as the round flies.

A layer of nanoparticles could be on the outside of the round. When fired, the electromagentic charge that fires the round generates a magnetic field, allowing the plasma to be contained. Also, at this point, the round has been heated up significantly, and the nanomaterial changes phase to plasma. Finally, the plasma, which is extremely hot, is used to melt away armor as it impacts, increasing damage.

Of course, this is all speculative, and relies on a lot of things at once.

[Rbstr]

It's also not how plasma works. Unless speculative matters include physical laws. Given this is Anime...I guess that's entirely possible. You just aren't going to contain a plasma on the outside of a single magnetized slug in a meaningful way.

The only particularly weaponizable way of shooting plasma at something is to somehow get it compressed inside of some kind of containment so it can't radiate it's heat out very well. But you're talking a lot of energy to do that.

It makes far more sense to use available energy accelerate a heavy slug than to heat up something up until it ionizes.

When you start talking railgun speeds...that slug is either going to blow a hole right through or, more likely, melt/vaporize/ionize itself and whatever it's hitting.

But Like I said...that doesn't really matter....it's anime they can do whatever they want to physics

Still, similarly to Killer Robot, I think we might be hitting some translation snags. I wouldn't know: what's the difference between sabot and cartridge in Japanese?

I mean...Gold makes sense to use as a component of railgun ammunition because of its conductivity. It doesn't make too much sense as the actual penetrator...it's not very hard. DU and tungsten are both better options.

I suspect the gold is actually used as a sabot. It could very well be totally ionized in the firing process by the way, if you've seen on go off - that flash is plasma from the projectile/sabot being ablated.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Rbstr

[edwin3060]

IIRC, early texts describe the SP-55X as "conventional ammunition". It was only later that they gave this "conventional ammunition" a designation, namely "SP-55X". And those text (one of the early issues of the Chronicle) describes the sniper rifle as a gun that uses gunpowder/propellant and electromagnetic rails to accelerate the round/bullet/projectile. So it sounded more like a hybrid weapon than a "true" rail gun. Later texts haven't bothered to repeat the wording. Now the Chronicle's VF-25G article may clear it up but until then:

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...st&p=737188

Edit: Correction, they have repeated it in the 1/72 kit manual. It describes the SP-55X using gunpowder/propellant and then gets a boost from the rails.

And everything I've seen calls it a "SSL-9B Dragunov Anti-Armor Sniper Rifle", not "SSL-9B Dragunov Electromagnetic Rail Anti-Armor Sniper Rifle".

That would certainly make sense. IIRC EM/solid projectile weapons in the real world have a big problem with the initial acceleration of the projectile and one of the proposed solutions was using conventional gunpowder/explosives to get the projectile up to speed before the rail gun portion took over. Thanks for the clarification Azrael!

[Mr March]

And everything I've seen calls it a "SSL-9B Dragunov Anti-Armor Sniper Rifle", not "SSL-9B Dragunov Electromagnetic Rail Anti-Armor Sniper Rifle".

Okay, I've uploaded corrections to the VF-25, VF-171 and Macrosspedia pages. THanks.

[SchizophrenicMC]

I still like the idea of a hybrid tungsten slug...