A question of VF Aero Dynamics

[SchizophrenicMC]

oh... OH I see what you mean now. for some reason I thought we were talking about why the ELINT fin was swept back... durrr.

anyways, what he said plus out canted tail fins help reduce RCS.

Yeah.

And, I mean, I see the ELINT fin retracted in a few cases, but that said, I've seen the RVF go into combat with it extended.

Then, there's the ADF-01F Falken and ADFX-02 Morgan from the Ace Combat series that fly always with a fin in the same location extended. However, it's not for an ELINT purpose.

By the way, Mike, your sig: The last thing you saw before you lost conciousness in the collapse was Misa getting up.

Edited May 17, 2009 by SchizophrenicMC

[anime52k8]

Yeah.

And, I mean, I see the ELINT fin retracted in a few cases, but that said, I've seen the RVF go into combat with it extended.

Then, there's the ADF-01F Falken and ADFX-02 Morgan from the Ace Combat series that fly always with a fin in the same location extended. However, it's not for an ELINT purpose.

I don't remember the morgan having the tail fin, all though the Giant back mounted laser couldn't possibly be good for performance.

the Fin on the falken was a lot smaller than the ELINT fins of the RVF and the Yukikazae. I think it was some kind of flight control or stabalizer... or something. (I tend not to worry too much about a seemingly superfluous fin when the the plane splits in half like a zentraid battleship mid flight.)

By the way, Mike, your sig: The last thing you saw before you lost conciousness in the collapse was Misa getting up.

[SchizophrenicMC]

I don't remember the morgan having the tail fin, all though the Giant back mounted laser couldn't possibly be good for performance.

the Fin on the falken was a lot smaller than the ELINT fins of the RVF and the Yukikazae. I think it was some kind of flight control or stabalizer... or something. (I tend not to worry too much about a seemingly superfluous fin when the the plane splits in half like a zentraid battleship mid flight.)

Shi-! You're right! I mixed up the ADFX-02 and the ADFX-01 again.

Both incarnations of the Falken had the fin, and it was pretty damn big. Further, it didn't seem to do much. It may not have been as volumetric as an ELINT fin, but it was as long as one, and presented the same forward drag profile, as well as an elevated roll drag profile.

[David Hingtgen]

anyways, what he said plus out canted tail fins help reduce RCS.

Yeah, but that's not an aerodynamic reason/effect.

[edwin3060]

I've seen the RVF go into combat with it extended.

Perhaps the need to detect/transmit signals to co-ordinate between Skull and the other squadrons etc outweighs the reduction in maneuverability. For that matter, we've never seen the RVF-25 operate in atmosphere, and in space, the aerodynamic drawbacks of the fins are nil-- and depending on the mass of the fin, the limitations on maneuverability might not be significant as well.

[Bowen]

Perhaps the need to detect/transmit signals to co-ordinate between Skull and the other squadrons etc outweighs the reduction in maneuverability. For that matter, we've never seen the RVF-25 operate in atmosphere, and in space, the aerodynamic drawbacks of the fins are nil-- and depending on the mass of the fin, the limitations on maneuverability might not be significant as well.

Besides, it's not like Luca does any real dogfighting (and if he tries, he sucks ).

[SchizophrenicMC]

Perhaps the need to detect/transmit signals to co-ordinate between Skull and the other squadrons etc outweighs the reduction in maneuverability. For that matter, we've never seen the RVF-25 operate in atmosphere, and in space, the aerodynamic drawbacks of the fins are nil-- and depending on the mass of the fin, the limitations on maneuverability might not be significant as well.

Besides, it's not like Luca does any real dogfighting (and if he tries, he sucks ).

You forget G loads.

In a roll, the Gs on the fin would be enormous, and in a banked turn, you'd get a somewhat lesser (Depending on the situation) effect on the fin. If it gets ripped off, it can't be beneficial.

Gs are present in space and an atmosphere.

Further note that when it came to the RVF, I only use G loading as an issue. The aerodynamic issues come to play only when I mention the ADF-01 and the Super Sylph.

[anime52k8]

You forget G loads.

In a roll, the Gs on the fin would be enormous, and in a banked turn, you'd get a somewhat lesser (Depending on the situation) effect on the fin. If it gets ripped off, it can't be beneficial.

Gs are present in space and an atmosphere.

Further note that when it came to the RVF, I only use G loading as an issue. The aerodynamic issues come to play only when I mention the ADF-01 and the Super Sylph.

considering how nigh indistinguishable valks aredue to technobabel construction, G loading probably isn't an issue. As for the super sylph, they don't do any real maneuvering with the fin down (that I recall) and it's been stated repeatedly by the creators that the planes in the OVA are designed to be aerodynamically wrong on purpose, chances are no thought was given to structural strength either.

and as for the ADF-01F... IT SPLITS IN HALF TO FIRE A CHEMICAL LASER!!!

[SchizophrenicMC]

considering how nigh indistinguishable valks aredue to technobabel construction, G loading probably isn't an issue. As for the super sylph, they don't do any real maneuvering with the fin down (that I recall) and it's been stated repeatedly by the creators that the planes in the OVA are designed to be aerodynamically wrong on purpose, chances are no thought was given to structural strength either.

and as for the ADF-01F... IT SPLITS IN HALF TO FIRE A CHEMICAL LASER!!!

Perhaps you are right...

Which reminds me, the CFA-44... IT POPS OPEN TO FIRE A SAP RAILGUN!!!

[anime52k8]

Perhaps you are right...

Which reminds me, the CFA-44... IT POPS OPEN TO FIRE A SAP RAILGUN!!!

I love the VFCFA-44

[SchizophrenicMC]

I love the VFCFA-44

We all do. We ALL do.

I'm an excellent flying sniper with that gun.

Would you like to XBL sometime? Actually, never mind, I don't have Gold anymore...

All this talk reminds me of the, what was it, XFA-27? The one from AC2 or 3 with the VG wings...

Aha! This is it!

It pioneered COFFIN, for starters.

And COFFIN pioneered the VF-27...

So, the XFA-27 is like the VF-27... Hm...

[edwin3060]

We all do. We ALL do.

I'm an excellent flying sniper with that gun.

Would you like to XBL sometime? Actually, never mind, I don't have Gold anymore...

All this talk reminds me of the, what was it, XFA-27? The one from AC2 or 3 with the VG wings...

Aha! This is it!

It pioneered COFFIN, for starters.

And COFFIN pioneered the VF-27...

So, the XFA-27 is like the VF-27... Hm...

The XFA-27 looks kinda like the VF-11B, to be honest, and the cockpit view on that page looks like the cockpit of the YF-19.

[SchizophrenicMC]

The XFA-27 looks kinda like the VF-11B, to be honest, and the cockpit view on that page looks like the cockpit of the YF-19.

Eh... It doesn't look much like a VF-11, really.

I'm just saying that the whole Ace Combat thing led my thoughts into COFFIN, which is much like the VF-27 cockpit.

[anime52k8]

Eh... It doesn't look much like a VF-11, really.

I'm just saying that the whole Ace Combat thing led my thoughts into COFFIN, which is much like the VF-27 cockpit.

Well first I figure the interface on the VF-27 is more based off the BDI/BCS from the YF-21 than anything form any other property.

Anyways, the COFFIN system first shows up in Ace Combat 3 which came out in 1999 and Macross Plus came out in 1994, so it's possible that the idea for the COFFIN system came from Macross.

Also the XFA-27 doesn't really use COFFIN, but rather screens on the sides and floor of the cockpit like the YF-19. Now the XFA-27 first shows up in Ace Combat 2 which was released in 1995, but since cockpit view wasn't introduced to the Ace Combat series until AC4 so the XFA-27 didn't get an official cockpit design until ACX in 2006. Either way, you could also argue that the XFA-27's cockpit was also inspired by Macross.

Then there's the obvious example of the CFA-44 which has the Itano Circus weapon that's a strait copy of every VF in Macross.

Edited May 24, 2009 by anime52k8

[SchizophrenicMC]

Well first I figure the interface on the VF-27 is more based off the BDI/BCS from the YF-21 than anything form any other property.

Anyways, the COFFIN system first shows up in Ace Combat 3 which came out in 1999 and Macross Plus came out in 1994, so it's possible that the idea for the COFFIN system came from Macross.

Also the XFA-27 doesn't really use COFFIN, but rather screens on the sides and floor of the cockpit like the YF-19. Now the XFA-27 first shows up in Ace Combat 2 which was released in 1995, but since cockpit view wasn't introduced to the Ace Combat series until AC4 so the XFA-27 didn't get an official cockpit design until ACX in 2006. Either way, you could also argue that the XFA-27's cockpit was also inspired by Macross.

Then there's the obvious example of the CFA-44 which has the Itano Circus weapon that's a strait copy of every VF in Macross.

Well, yeah.

I was never insinuating it to be opposite.