Moderating Styles

[MacrossMan]

I feel most of the moderators here do a fine job, but there is always room for improvement. I see a need for consistency and standards in moderating. Just as members here have rules to follow, maybe some sort of code of conduct should be developed for moderators to follow.

I imagine this post will probably be locked, but I am curious to know what others think.

I'm also responding a to post by >EXO< that has to do with my opinion regarding moderating styles.

Macrossman is the best reason for a mod not to explain their action.

He just ignores the mods explanation and mulls over how the mods hate him.

Money talks; bull$hit runs a marathon. Money being legitimate explanations, I will respond to them. Bull$hit being senseless explanations, I ignore those; mod or no. If it’s meant for me to have access to the forums then it will be or it won’t be. I have far too much other stuff going on in my life to give power to nameless people on a forum to the degree that it matters whether or not they like or dislike me. It’s just not that important.

As far as “the mods hate me”, I think most do a fine job of walking the fine line of moderating. I commend them and have a lot of respect for their style of moderating, but there are a few who remind me of cocky police officers; the ones that usually show no restraint when they feel irritated by a member. They tend more to react and flex in the open forum instead of keeping a cool head.

Or if a seller reports him for trolling his thread, his reply is "well he posted that he wants to get rid of it, now's his chance... why doesn't he take my deal..."

This is news to me that I was reported for trolling. I have no idea what trolling is. Anyone with half a brain could have read that post and realize that your interpretation of how things played out has been overly dramatized and reduced to pettiness.

The way I see it, a seller offered up a couple of items, I asked if he was willing to sell part of the deal, the seller said no, after the items had not sold the seller made an open plea to help him out, I then asked again if he was willing to split the sale and made a snod comment and I shot back letting him I was trying to meet his need by helping him out since he asked.

A mod then stepped in and said play nice. I explained my position and the conversation went the way of my fascination with balls; balls meaning testicles with an underlined insinuation in my opinion. I cleared up the mod’s “fascination with balls” statement and the mod did not like it. Him not liking the comments or feeling irritated ended in my suspension.

I'm sure he has a retort to this post on how unjust I am...like I said before, it's the few like him that complain over and over how unfairly this forum is ran.

>EXO<, of course I have a retort when my comments go misconstrued and puts me a negative light. I’ve conducted business on the forums and people tend to not want to deal with those who are cast in a bad light so I have to clear things up.

I know you’re an important person in the Macrossworld forums, but you’ve given yourself too much credit in regards to my opinion. My comments in regards to the inconsistent styles of moderating did not mention anything about “how unjust you are.” With all due respect, it wasn’t even about you. You were not the one that handed down the temporary suspension. Even when you made your comments regarding the situation, the fact remains that it was not about you.

I’ve never said you’re unjust, but I have said that some mods get beside themselves. Again, with all due respect, your comments above puts you beside yourself, because my opinion regarding moderating styles and the suspension had nothing to do with you; you brought yourself into it.

And for the record, I have not complained “over and over again” about “how unfairly the forum is ran”. I think the forum runs just fine, but feel there should be some standards in moderating. My opinion about the moderating style of some was not a complaint. The issue has come up twice and twice my opinion has not changed; and for the third time I will move on.

As long as the overwhelming majority don't complain, that's what matters most. There's a few things that I don't like about the forum, but if no one else is saying anything, I'm assuming that it's just a personal pet peeve.

I found about Macross and MacrossWold by accident. It’s simply a place for me to come view toys and share pics of my all while making the occasional comment.

Like many others here I’ve amassed a boatload of Yamato Macross toys (fairly quick I might add) just because I fell in love with how cool they are. The toys are what brought me here so chances are my comments made on the forums will be simpleton statements regarding how cool a toy is with the occasional opinion about something outside the toys. Nothing more, nothing less.

I am still a fairly new kid on the block. I’ve only been around the forums for a little over a year. How dare I come here and complain about the moderating styles? Right? Like most, I have opinions. I might stand alone in my opinion and that’s okay, but it’s my opinion nonetheless.

You’re absolutely right that if the majorities are not complaining then what’s my beef? I have two options: I can either put my opinion aside and continue to participate on the site or move on. After my suspension I chose to put my opinion aside and continued participating on the forum and never made mention of my opinion up until now.

Even though I still feel to this day the suspension I received was not for breaking a rule, but rather a moderator flexing, I recognize that reasonable people can agree to disagree. My opinion on the style of moderating only came up because it was stated that the original post about “being open” so took the opportunity to express my opinion about it. We have a difference of opinion on how things played out and that’s cool, but that’s no reason to paint things up and make them appear different. A blind could have seen what the suspension was about. It’s black and white no matter how it’s painted. When the color is gone, it is what it is.

Edited May 1, 2009 by MacrossMan

[Gubaba]

I think you're taking this too personally.

But I understand >EXO<'s frustrations...he provided in excruciating deal just how many chances the moderating staff gave Ryno before they decided on a three-day ban, and why that three-day ban turned into a permaban.

And many people (not just you) had the bright answer, "Give him another chance!"

>EXO< laid it all out very plainly...I'm not sure why you're callling it BS.

Anyway, it DOES seem pretty consistent. I've only really seen a couple of people here being banned, and both of them flaunted the rules time and again, and then acted like five-year-olds when the mods tried to get them back in line.

I've never had any problems with any of the moderating staff (Well...Roy Focker's Robotech Love got a bit annoying...), although I was warned once about spamming. I took it to heart, and tried to be a little more careful after that. It's not such a big deal.

And the mods here are pretty permissive over all. You don't bug them, they don't bug you. If they warn you that you breaking the rules, you stop. That's simple enough, isn't it?

[VFTF1]

No matter how hard people try - those with power over others will always feel that they are being asked to do the impossible by making a judgement about who went over board, who crossed the line, and who didn't. If they never make a judgement - they are weak and chaos ensues - if they make a judgement they will forever themselves be judged for it and expected to spell out in precise detail what their justifications were.

Newsflash: Human beings and judgements about human things can never be precisely explained. If you are waiting for a mod to present a mathematical proof for why somebody got a warning, temp-ban or suspension - you won't get it because no person is capable of giving it to you. All judgements by humans over humans are imperfect - yet they have to be made.

On the other hand - those who are being judged will always want the judgements explained and always will tend to find holes in those explanations.

In the end - we either agree to be reasonable and moderate or we quarrel into infinity.

I've been given a warning twice - once publically by Exo (who probably dishes out so many warnings he might not remember this particular one) and one privately by Hurin (who wrote me a five trillion page email justifying his actions which was totally appreciated).

In the end - my reaction when I got a warning was to simply depart from the thread in which the situation that led to my warning came up. To withdraw yourself helps immensely - it cuts the potential cycle of he-said-she-said and back and forth bickering and it guarantees that you won't be warned again and the potentially bad situation won't develop.

There are enough threads on MW that you can quickly find another one to go to and - eventually return to the one in question when emotions cool off.

Above all - as members - let's take responsibility for ourselves.

If you feel a moderator went to far and over-stepped and was unfair - here's my advise:

Be the bigger Dude. Back off. Bow. Apologize and smile.

I've noticed that the people who got into the worse trouble (Roger and Ryano) were the ones who couldn't just smile, say "sorry" and go back to having fun but had to make a melodrama out of their predicament. Meanwhile - the people who were humble -Agent 1 - are back kicking and cooler for it.

Pete

[Gubaba]

Meanwhile - the people who were humble -Agent 1 - are back kicking and cooler for it.

Congratulations for being the first person ever to call Agent ONE "humble."

[chen]

I've been here for awhile but haven't really posted much so my opinion here really doesn't matter. But I've been a Mod and a Admin for years at other boards and if there enough complaints about a certain Mod from VARIOUS members then whoever actually runs this board should have a serious look at that Mod IF it is warranted. The purpose of Mods is to help facilitate what's best for the board in general and not individual members or their own self interest.

Perhaps a rotating staff of Mods is possible, that way no Mod, no matter how long they've been here or how many posts will get a sense of entitlement. Or perhaps time limits on their "terms", how about this board elects new Mods every year from members who have shown proper respect to their fellow members, are helpful and helped guide this board in a positive way, and are knowledgeable of Macross but not arrogant enough to think they know everything and are willing to learn.

But in the end you can't please everyone and a little show of respect goes a long way.

[Bri]

When someone is not to happy with the mod style here, feel free to check out the Elitist Jerks forums(gaming). That's an example of how a real police-state forum is run. You may find the mods here to be a little more relaxed after that.

[MacrossMan]

Before this thing goes sideways, this is not about Ryno so please refrain beating a dead horse to death.

This is about moderating styles and moderating styles only.

That being said, let's not bring that up the dead post and focus truly on moderating.

[eugimon]

I'm happy with the mods and the style. There's incredible leeway here and honest and sincere discussions that stray into the forbidden topics are allowed up to a certain point... where members involved are allowed to say their piece, and respond in kind before being nudged back in line. And for the most part, the mods here let members work out our own issues. I respect that they respect us (well, you guys at least, I'm not sure about me) to let us handle their own junk and don't play the baby sitter.

I've also been a mod on a board and I can tell you... we had celebrity posters (for that particular hobby) and those members were not to be criticized or made fun of in any way. That prohibition also extended to companies that advertised on the board. The posts of regular members were frequently edited or out right deleted and the threat of perma-ban was brought out frequently and it wasn't an idle threat.

So yeah, I like that there are rules and boundaries, and I don't need to know every little reason for why a thread was closed or a member brought in line. I just appreciate that those things are being done and that I'm not the one doing it.

[Mr March]

I believe in Macross World.

Macross World has made my fandom. And I raised my website in the Macross fashion. I gave her life and honored Macross World with her birth, but I vowed never to dishonor those who had helped me achieve my dream. One day a boy joined the forums. He posted in threads. He wrote extensively. I didn't protest. Then he began spamming the forums. Posting inappropriate pictures. Berating the members like animals. He was breaking the spirit of our beloved message board. A beautiful message board. Now she will never be beautiful again. I went to my fellow members, like a good Macross World member. We confronted this boy and tried to teach him a lesson. The boy laughed at us and our petty lessons. He trolled as never before, that very day! I stood among my fellow Macross World members like a fool, and that bastard, he smiled at me. Then I said to my fellow members, "For justice, we must go to Don EXO."

[Sulendil Ang]

But beating the dead horse to death is FUNNNNNNNNNNN!!!

Really, why so serious? Sounds to me that you still have quite an issue with your suspension even it's already quite a while. Just like Gubaba, I think you're taking things far too personally.

Me? I personally think the moderators are doing their jobs fine, and I have seen worse. (although I admit the Elitist Jerks forums Bri mentioned is an eye-opener)

And LOL at March. Why I have a feeling that I heard the similiar thing before?

Edited May 1, 2009 by Sulendil Ang

[bigkid24]

Personally I think if a member is having a run-in with the mods on a regular basis then it's the member and not the mods that are an issue. There are over 8800 members on MW but it's always the same few people that have issues with the mods so interpret that as you will.

This is a private board that can be run however Shawn wants it to be run. He pays the bills and if he thinks things are fine then cool. Nothing more to be said. If people don't like the mods then either don't be an asshat or don't post here.

[jenius]

I blame Exo.

[Vostok 7]

Before this thing goes sideways, this is not about Ryno so please refrain beating a dead horse to death.

This is about moderating styles and moderating styles only.

That being said, let's not bring that up the dead post and focus truly on moderating.

BEWARE! EXTREME IRONING!!!

The irony is delicious.

Vostok 7

Edited May 1, 2009 by Vostok 7

[Kicker773]

LoL.

But seriously I'm happy with the moderating here, I believe they've done a great job in keeping order and most people of who will fall under the end of the stick that regulates will feel like they've been isolated and persecuted and then point out the "inconsistencies" of moderating. I seriously don't see any inconsistencies really, well at least none that's shown on the toy forum and for sale section.

I believe everyone is free to make their opinion known but to an extent. This is a forum, but its not just your forum. Like what everyone was saying your taking it too personally. I have never been banned or suspended on the forum, but if I was it would be a good reason. Although Exo might have said it that it doesn't need explanation, i'm sure they sent out pm's and e-mails on why people get suspended and banned from the forum.

We appreciate your addition to the forum especially with your pictures and your love for macross, but constantly complaining about the moderating who majority of us don't have a problem with creates tension, which we try to avoid. Like what VFTF said, let it go and move on.

Edited May 1, 2009 by Kicker773

[EXO]

This thread is less about moderating styles and more about Macrossman... it's unfair until I get it my way. You even admitted to it. You ignore it unless you agree with it. That's a good way of dealing with things.

And seriously, what is your opinion? The only opinion you have is "the mods suck, you better watch yourself." But no real opinion about the site itself. You were burned once and you just can't get over it. If the mods here are such tyrants then why are you still posting? You'd think that one of us insanely unjust a-holes woulda banned you by now. And no, that's not a warning... just a point you have to consider. Quit picking on your wounds and let it heal already.

[Vostok 7]

Someday they should make me a moderator. Then you'll all see how REAL moderating should get done!

Muah! Muah!! Muuuaaaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahah!

I mean...

MUAAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA!

Vostok 7

[MacrossMan]

I think you're taking this too personally.

Not taking things personal. Just trying to have an open conversation.

You don't bug them, they don't bug you.

I’d like to think that members here are not here to bug or irritate anyone; at least not intentionally. If someone is irritated or bugged then there is a way to handle it.

If they warn you that you breaking the rules, you stop. That's simple enough, isn't it?

You have to know you’ve broken a rule. In my case, any rule that had been broken was not made known. The only thing being made known is that I was being handed a temporary suspension. This was all done in the open forum and I feel it should have taken place in PM. Maybe that could be part of the moderator’s code of conduct: Inform members of broken rules in PM. If member fails to comply inform then of possible suspension.

The moderating style of this particular mod I feel was inappropriate and uneccessary.

Really, why so serious? Sounds to me that you still have quite an issue with your suspension even it's already quite a while. Just like Gubaba, I think you're taking things far too personally.

Again, I don’t take this personal. I’d like to put this experience in the open forum in hopes that we can learn from it and help those moderators who might need some direction in better dealing with a situation when a member breaks a rule.

I don’t have an issue with the suspension, but rather the way and reason it was handed down. If at all possible I’d like to not see it happen to anyone else.

I've been here for awhile but haven't really posted much so my opinion here really doesn't matter. But I've been a Mod and a Admin for years at other boards and if there enough complaints about a certain Mod from VARIOUS members then whoever actually runs this board should have a serious look at that Mod IF it is warranted. The purpose of Mods is to help facilitate what's best for the board in general and not individual members or their own self interest.

Perhaps a rotating staff of Mods is possible, that way no Mod, no matter how long they've been here or how many posts will get a sense of entitlement. Or perhaps time limits on their "terms", how about this board elects new Mods every year from members who have shown proper respect to their fellow members, are helpful and helped guide this board in a positive way, and are knowledgeable of Macross but not arrogant enough to think they know everything and are willing to learn.

But in the end you can't please everyone and a little show of respect goes a long way.

I think this should really be given some consideration. There are several active members here who have been around for quite some time that I think would be happy to take on this responsibility to for the forum. I imagine being a mod can be a headache at times and would give mods a break from the hassle of it all.

When someone is not to happy with the mod style here, feel free to check out the Elitist Jerks forums(gaming). That's an example of how a real police-state forum is run. You may find the mods here to be a little more relaxed after that.

I think the moderators here are laid back. The one issue I had wasn’t with all the moderators here; it was with one, but I have seen behavior in others that puts me in the mindset of corrupt police. I guess in the scope of things the behavior really doesn’t matter since I’m referencing only one incident from one mod. That being said, I have no problems with the other behavior I have seen, but I see that if this one mod is allowed to moderate in the fashion he did, then it is inevitable that he will continue in this fashion. We all screw up and react at times, but it’s all about learning from those screw ups. Sometimes we have get outside our feelings and re-assess a situation to see if we could have done things differently. It doesn’t make us bad, it just makes us human and we grow from it.

So yeah, I like that there are rules and boundaries, and I don't need to know every little reason for why a thread was closed or a member brought in line. I just appreciate that those things are being done and that I'm not the one doing it.

I agree and do appreciate that I am not the one doing it. I moderate people’s lives everyday in my job and I get paid for it. I can tell you, it’s no fun being in a position of authority because you can never make all of the people happy all of the time.

Personally I think if a member is having a run-in with the mods on a regular basis then it's the member and not the mods that are an issue.

I agree with that to a certain extent, but it doesn’t exempt a mod from moderating inappropriately.

There are over 8800 members on MW but it's always the same few people that have issues with the mods so interpret that as you will.

Bull$hit runs a marathon.

This is a private board that can be run however Shawn wants it to be run. He pays the bills and if he thinks things are fine then cool. Nothing more to be said. If people don't like the mods then either don't be an asshat or don't post here.

I think it says a lot about Shawn and Graham devotion to the hobby to put in the kind of work it takes to maintain site. I would gladly pay a small fee to be a member here and I’m sure others would too. Would probably help these guys off-set some of their expense and maybe do other things like hold drawings for toys and what not or maybe even help fund different MW Cons. I have to believe that they could easily whore the site out from advertisers who are willing to pay, but them not doing that says a lot.

That being said, I have nothing but appreciation for these guys.

This is just an attempt for us to be open about moderating practices. We can agree to disagree, but I think we can have an open and honest conversation about this without fear of offending anyone.

[MacrossMan]

This thread is less about moderating styles and more about Macrossman... it's unfair until I get it my way. You even admitted to it. You ignore it unless you agree with it. That's a good way of dealing with things.

And seriously, what is your opinion? The only opinion you have is "the mods suck, you better watch yourself." But no real opinion about the site itself. You were burned once and you just can't get over it. If the mods here are such tyrants then why are you still posting? You'd think that one of us insanely unjust a-holes woulda banned you by now. And no, that's not a warning... just a point you have to consider. Quit picking on your wounds and let it heal already.

Your interpretation of things are dangerous man. This is not about me. It's about having an open conversation without getting childish.

My opinion is that the one incident was handled inappropriately and let's see what we can do COLLECTIVELY to make things better. Follow the rules is only part of the answer.

Come on >EXO< let's not be silly about this. No way have I even ensinuated that "the mods" suck. That's really immature. I've continually said I think that most do a fine job.

Just trying to have an open conversation, but if it can't happen let's lock this thing down, and I can put this whole moderating style thing to rest and move forward without looking back.

[Vostok 7]

I can put this whole moderating style thing to rest and move forward without looking back.

If you can, then why don't you just do it?

Vostok 7

[eugimon]

Meh, why not leave this thread up and see if there are a bunch of people who have issues or suggestions on the way their forum is moderated?

If there is some good idea out there, I'd like to hear it.

[Mr March]

And LOL at March. Why I have a feeling that I heard the similiar thing before?

It's a paraphrase of Bonasera's speech from the opening to The Godfather. Seemed fitting

Edited May 1, 2009 by Mr March

[MacrossMan]

>EXO< it is no secret you can be a butt in your replies. You’ve admitted it and everyone sees it. Does this mean I don’t like you? Not at all. I actually think you can be cool when you want and be a butt when you want, but it’s all in fun and everyone knows and accepts that about you on the fourm.

This is not about me and it is not about you. It’s about a particular incident regarding a moderating style that I didn’t think was appropriate and I thought we could have a reasonable discussion about without retorting to silliness.

I never even knew this area of the forum existed until I was reminded in the previous thread that spawned this discussion that this is an open forum for members to discuss things openly.

But seriously, if we can’t discuss, we can agree to disagree and just move on from here. It doesn’t have to get ugly.

Too exciting of a time to be a Yamato Macross fan to get bogged down in an endless conversation. Let’s just let by-gones be by-gones and move forward and lock this thing down. Delete the entire discussion even if that’s possible.

[Kicker773]

I think with the track record of what has happened and who is associated with who (dead horse) the tension is still high and this post could have waited a few weeks, instead of bringing it up now. I think some parties are still tensed and need some relief/relaxation/vacation. That is the best way to approach a good conversation and to get to a solution. Take a step back and breathe, let some time go by and we can discuss it again. I think this thread would be helpful collectively, but not right now especially with that other "dead horse" thread up.

~kicker773

Edited May 1, 2009 by Kicker773

[EXO]

Your interpretation of things are dangerous man. This is not about me. It's about having an open conversation without getting childish.

My opinion is that the one incident was handled inappropriately and let's see what we can do COLLECTIVELY to make things better. Follow the rules is only part of the answer.

Come on >EXO< let's not be silly about this. No way have I even ensinuated that "the mods" suck. That's really immature. I've continually said I think that most do a fine job.

Just trying to have an open conversation, but if it can't happen let's lock this thing down, and I can put this whole moderating style thing to rest and move forward without looking back.

Are you really sure it's not about you? First you say that there really is no issue but you want to make it better. The way I keep seeing it is your not happy about one thing and until it's molded to the way you want it, you're not gonna drop it. I'm assuming that the issue isn't me because I never let the hammer down on you. I'm just the one that constantly notice that you want some sort of member rise up just to have it... for Ryno? maybe? And I think that your use of such words like "dangerous" and "immature" is still just another way of spinning things to bend the argument your way. I'm happy about most of the replies on here, but I know you're not going to stop until you hit the nerve you're looking for and then run with that. To me that's where it's "dangerous" and "immature". But not enough to concern me. I'm sure whatever little issue you have will turn out to be some small selfish waste of time.

[EXO]

This is not about me and it is not about you. It’s about a particular incident regarding a moderating style that I didn’t think was appropriate and I thought we could have a reasonable discussion about without retorting to silliness.

But seriously, if we can’t discuss, we can agree to disagree and just move on from here. It doesn’t have to get ugly.

If it was one particular incident then it really is a personal thing. If it was an event that constantly made members unhappy then it's an issue. That's what I'm getting at. And what's your definition of ugly. The little remarks you leave all over the forums about "watch your back, you don't have to do anything to suffer the wrath of the mods" is ugly... so now all of a sudden we're civilized? Give me a break. Keep it coming Macrossman, and I'll show you exactly what you're after.

[Gubaba]

>EXO< it is no secret you can be a butt in your replies. You’ve admitted it and everyone sees it.

As someone recently said, "BS runs a marathon"...

Okay, I'll take you at your word that this isn't about Ryno, and it isn't about you. Who or what is it about, then? Most of us seem to think the mods are doing a good job, even falling on the side of leniency most of the time (unless it involves VFTF1 and Jennifer Aniston). What's the problem here?

[MacrossMan]

I think with the track record of what has happened and who is associated with who (dead horse) the tension is still high and this post could have waited a few weeks, instead of bringing it up now. I think some parties are still tensed and need some relief/relaxation/vacation. That is the best way to approach a good conversation and to get to a solution. Take a step back and breathe, let some time go by and we can discuss it again. I think this thread would be helpful collectively, but not right now especially with that other "dead horse" thread up.

~kicker773

I think you're right Kicker. The sad part is, is that this is not even about the dead horse. There was a statement made in that thread that it is not about the dead horse, but about being open. I took that and ran with it and brought this whole thing about mod style. If I had known about this area of the forum when things went down way back when I would have posted it then. I just accepted the suspension, sat out until the suspension expired and came back. I didn't get as active as I have been lately until the announcement of the 1/48 Max and all the current stuff coming out.

This is cool place for people who collect the toys. I don't get knee deep into the hobby. I just have a display in my office with a bunch of cool expensive toys and I have developed a passion for collecting them. Call me your bastard or red-neck collector who knows jack-$hit about the hobby. I think that might bother some people that not everyone is a true fan and that's pretty sad.

[Phyrox]

MW runs just fine. Much better than nearly any other forum I visit/lurk. Which is why I've been here so long.

Since I only hear the same half-dozen or so members bitching, I tend to think it's not really the mods who need readjusting. I don't have a problem with those who call for a change, I just disagree with 'em.

Once again, keep up the good, largely invisible work, MW mods.

[MacrossMan]

If it was one particular incident then it really is a personal thing. If it was an event that constantly made members unhappy then it's an issue. That's what I'm getting at. And what's your definition of ugly. The little remarks you leave all over the forums about "watch your back, you don't have to do anything to suffer the wrath of the mods" is ugly... so now all of a sudden we're civilized? Give me a break. Keep it coming Macrossman, and I'll show you exactly what you're after.

My definition of ugly what this discussion has become >EXO<. My apologies for attempting to have this conversation. I will bow out of the discussion and hopefully it will become locked.

I appreciate the replies though.

[taksraven]

I think that having the Ryno thread open for a while was a really good idea, like I said, it allowed some to let off a little steam and it also allowed some constructive criticism.

BUT, I think that the idea of having an ongoing "lets pick the mods apart thread", which seems to be the point of this, is not such a great idea.

I know that these forums cannot operate like a total democracy where everybody has a say in everything that happens, but on the other hand I don't want it to operate like a total 1984 police state either. (Which it doesn't, by the way) Ultimately I think that we do have to put faith and trust in the mods to run this place properly, which I am willing to do, since we are all really just "guests" here anyway.

If a mod makes a decision that is *totally* unreasonable, I will take it up privately with the mod via PM. So far I have not really had to do that (although one thread I started was renamed in such a way as to take the piss out of it by some mod without any justification, didn't like that one... http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...mp;hl=megaforce ) but I accept that if I had to I could do that and not expect to be banned for dissent.

The one thing that the Ryno thread did demonstrate to me, though, was that there is one major rule that I think could be overturned (or at least given leniency in one dedicated thread) and that is the rule about politics. The thread about Ryno was pure politics and I think that everyone taking part was totally reasonable and we had a lively discussion. I think that if a thread dedicated to politics was established and any political discussion had to be kept there I think that the mods might get a surprise and find out that we can act in a reasonable way about this touchy subject. It would certainly be interesting. I think that when people talk about government and party politics here now it usually gets really silly really quickly but I think thats because it is a banned subject and people know that they can only go for so long before being warned or the thread being closed. I think with a dedicated thread things might be a little different. Just my idea, I'm sure it will get howled down and rejected.

Taksraven

Edited May 1, 2009 by taksraven

[Vostok 7]

This may not be a thread about a particular dead horse, but there's definitely plenty of long dead horse beating going around here.

Here's a hint, if you have a problem with a moderator (or the moderators as a group), take it up with Shawn and Graham (especially Shawn). This is Shawn's playground, he's put the mods in to place and told them what he wants them to do. You don't like that? Take it up with Shawn or leave. That's the brass tacks.

Sitting and bitching about it constantly does absolutely NO good. If I had a freaking Yamato valks for every time I've seen a thread like this come up, I'd have several warehouses full of Yamato valks. And what are the outcomes? Usually massive waves of banning. Because in the end, this is Shawn's playground and he can do what he wants.

There's another website I'm on dealing with "moderator issues". Here's the Admin's response to the issue, and I feel it's very applicable here as well:

First of all let me start by saying you don't have an inalienable right to post, rate or say whatever you want on these sites. I've been saying this for 8 years and I'll continue to say this; this isn't the U.S. of A., this is a website with clear terms, conditions and rules. Your false perceptions of free speech don't exist here. "But Dark0ne", I hear you say, "that sounds so Draconian, you're not going to make any friends like that!", well, that's how it is folks. It's our way or no way.

We're not some crazy mad men on power trips, we're active members of this community who want to see as many people happy as possible. We're nice like that you see. Unfortunately we want to run a tight ship, a ship where the people making the great (and sometimes not so great) content that you download (for free, I'll add) can feel free to do so without being spat on by every Tom, Dick and Harry that doesn't like something for one reason or another.

This was a game modding site, the specific issue was people would complain about mods by posting crap in the comments and rating the mods poorly for no good reason at all. Banning and moderating began, people complained about that. This was the answer. The same thing here, MacrossWorld doesn't have a constitution that gives rights to everyone. It's Shawn's (and the Moderator's) word or the highway. End of discussion.

Vostok 7

[EXO]

My definition of ugly what this discussion has become >EXO<. My apologies for attempting to have this conversation. I will bow out of the discussion and hopefully it will become locked.

I appreciate the replies though.

Oh it was going to get a lot uglier if it would have continued, only because I find your little stunts and whinings offensive, though I stayed quiet about it until now (starting with the last thread). The thing is, this obviously stemmed out of ONE isolated event that you couldn't get over. I guess the mods should have a 100% record because anything else is unacceptable.

Just for the record... Macrossman is not on any "ban radars" or anything (that I know of). He's definitely on my annoyance radar personally, not on any official terms. And if you open up a forum for it, I'll certainly address it.