Yamato VF-1A 1/60 v.2 - Broken shoulder

[geepogi]

This is very helpful, as I'm too scared to even touch the 1J on the shelf now.

Just a quick question, the superglue used, is it the gel or the putty version?

most probably the gel.

by the way, can we use the ordinary quick dry cement glue or do we

have to use those sold in hobby shops? any difference?

TIA

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

thanks man!

maybe a needle dipped into the glue will work.

problem is we have to work fast lest the glue

seep near the pin and dry with the pin.

So long as you move the hinge while the glue is drying, you won't have to worry about the glue drying with the pin. Moving the hinge while drying will prevent the pin from sticking to the hinge.

What I did with mine was let the glue seep into the crack, and constantly move the hinge so that the glue wouldn't stick the pin to the hinge.

The crack on the left shoulder was kind of wide, but the dried glue made a hard layer connecting both sides of the crack, so that it will most likely not crack further *crossing fingers*. I moved the shoulder without bracing the hinge after the glue dried, and the dried layer of glue didn't budge, and didn't look like it would.

The crack on the right shoulder hinge was not cracked all the way, so chances are the glue will keep it from cracking further.

This fix works best if the hinge is not cracked to the point where a piece of it is cracked off. After looking at mine closely, the burred end of the pin is definitely a contributing factor to the breakages, it's simply too wide for the hinge, and the hinge cracks under the stress. In theory the new fixed hinges with the smaller diameter pin should work well without breakages.

I used Krazy glue, the one that is purple then turns clear when dry. Just make sure to move the hinges constantly while they are drying.

I am much happier now, but am worried that my figure may still break at the hinges in the future. Crossing fingers, but it may turn out to be break-free in the future.

[geepogi]

So long as you move the hinge while the glue is drying, you won't have to worry about the glue drying with the pin. Moving the hinge while drying will prevent the pin from sticking to the hinge.

What I did with mine was let the glue seep into the crack, and constantly move the hinge so that the glue wouldn't stick the pin to the hinge.

thanks dre!

by the way, is there no way to oil the pins before gluing the crack

so that the glue will not stick to the pin?

for uncracked shoulders, will oiling the pins help? though i have

little confidence that this will actually prevent cracking as the

configuration of the shoulder joints will really subject that portion

to concentrated stresses.

[Graham]

OK, got a reply back from Yamato regarding the running changes to the 1/60 V2 shoulders starting from the DYRL Max VF-1S type and the only thing that has been changed is that the knurling has been removed from the ends of the shoulder pins.

I was hoping as I'd discussed with Yamato and the Chinese factory owner a few months ago, that the pin diameter would be made smaller, thus allowing the plastic around the pin to be made thicker.

Hopefully, removal of the knurling will lessen pressure on the plastic and eliminate the cracking issue, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Honestly, I was hoping for more, but hopefully Yamato and the factory have done their homework and this change is all that is required.

Graham

[Agent-GHQ]

I don't understand why Yamato can't use a lighter type die-cast metal??!

[Graham]

I don't understand why Yamato can't use a lighter type die-cast metal??!

I don't think typical toy-grade, die-cast pot metal zinc would hold up unless the parts were made much thicker.

Machined aluminum or steel would do the trick, but may be too expensive.

Graham

[geepogi]

i really think locking that

piece on to the back of the

chest plate will mitigate, if

not eliminate, the cracking.

[DyNo]

i really think locking that

piece on to the back of the

chest plate will mitigate, if

not eliminate, the cracking.

Both my Roy shoulders were already cracked when I put it out of the box for the first time.

Edited May 5, 2009 by DyNo

[MR_Hyde]

Even if Yamato removed the knurling, from what I have heard the diameter of the pin may still be too large. What about finding a suitable alternative to the pin, perhaps slightly smaller? Stores that sell model railroad supplies stock various sizes of metal rod, ranging from aluminum to brass and also steel. With a digital caliper someone could find something slightly smaller that might resist future hinge cracking.

Also, what about melting sprue plastic and putting it on the cracks that have appeared in the hinges? Melt it, apply it to the crack and then brush a layer of superglue over the top. The hot plastic should bond to the plastic of the hinge, the superglue would harden over the top and could provide a stronger bond, thus resisting repetitive transformations and holding together much better than just a single superglue application.

[m0n5t3r]

i think removing the knurling might do the trick... i removed the knurling part on all the shoulder hinge pins of my v.2 valks (except the 1D) and they are all still fine. one drawback might be that the swiveling motion of the hinge might be a little loose coz the pin isn't fastened to the plastic anymore. the smooth part of the hinge pin is a nice exact fit for the hole/s on the two pieces of plastic that make up the hinge, no chance of it slipping out on its own. it's pretty obvious that the stress that's causing the breakages is due to the fat end of the pin esp. when its forced in.

but yeah, i was expecting that they would change to a smaller diameter pin and also make the hole smaller. does making that hole (where the pin is inserted) smaller require re-tooling??? if it does, i guess that's the reason for Yamato's shortcut solution...

Edited May 5, 2009 by m0n5t3r

[Omegablue]

i removed the knurling part on all the shoulder hinge pins of my v.2 valks (except the 1D)

Please share how?

Also, isn't there anyone here with the skills of remaking the piece and selling it as custom?

Graham, I do have a question, what is the chance of Yamato sending the new pins to us?

[eriku]

Hmm, I guess it was just wishful thinking that made the comparison photos look like the pins were smaller. Hopefully the unknurling will be sufficient, but it's still a worrisome area considering the hinge gets so much pressure put on it and has nothing to keep it from twisting (aside from a strategically placed finger).

Regardless, I'm sick of worrying about the shoulders so I'm just enjoying my Max 1A and not giving it any special treatment while transforming or posing it.

[do not disturb]

also keep in mind that some overseas sellers(as well as US sellers) are quick to stick it to a US customer.

they know it costs a lot of ship something back so they send you a crappy/broken one knowing full well you'll probably just suck it up and deal with it.

Edited May 5, 2009 by do not disturb

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Honestly, I was hoping for more, but hopefully Yamato and the factory have done their homework and this change is all that is required.

I'm hoping so too, it's a shame to see the v2 1/60 VF-1 maimed at such a simple part, because it is an otherwise solid toy, more solid in many areas than even the 1/48 VF-1.

[SHMOGUN]

I feel for you guys I have the VF 1J Hikaru, VF 1S Roy, and the VF 1D. I put the VF 1J in all three modes--no cracks--thank you, but as for the VF 1S and 1D I am very afraid-- might have to put my fears aside and try it.

Like to pose the 1S in battloid mode with the 1D slung under the arm.

[geepogi]

but it's still a worrisome area considering the hinge gets so much pressure put on it and has nothing to keep it from twisting (aside from a strategically placed finger).

as i said, locking that piece on to the back of the chest

plate may mitigate, if not eliminate, the cracking as it

prevents it from twisting. however, that piece will still

be subject to bearing stresses due to the pin bearing

on the plastic whenever the arms are pulled away from

the body. if it is a bearing failure, then the only solution

will be to thicken the plastic at that part or reinforce it.

[cazzalora]

I just want to enjoy my VF-1A withouth having to worry when I move/touch the shoulders. I may try to build something that will competently replace the piece..... I don't know. Another user in this forum posted a really interesting solution for fixing the breakage area. Here the picture and associated thread:

from eugimon: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...mp;#entry744414

Btw, I am still waiting for HLJ reply. The store now looks close due to the golden week....

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

I think the best alternative, is to make a hinge designed very similar to the v1 1/60 VF-1. There were absolutely no reported shoulder breakages on that hinge at all. There is also no metal pin side either. It's basically a rectangle with 2 nubs at the end that keep the hinges in place securely. It may have been made out of POM.

[anime52k8]

I think the best alternative, is to make a hinge designed very similar to the v1 1/60 VF-1. There were absolutely no reported shoulder breakages on that hinge at all. There is also no metal pin side either. It's basically a rectangle with 2 nubs at the end that keep the hinges in place securely. It may have been made out of POM.

I don't think the v.1 shoulder would work with the design of the v.2; I'd think they would get in the way of the metal swing bar and mess up the transformation.

also while I've never seen/heard of the part breaking specifically on a v1 1/60, I've seen parts on other toys of similar design break very easily and be almost impossible to fix without a replacement part. the little rods that stick out are major week points. On the Toynami MPC's they use essentially the same design except the rectangle is die cast and I've had several of those break.

[eyesonme78]

just curious, does any one who had 1/60 VF-1S hikaru ( fast pack set) have the same problems as well?

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

also while I've never seen/heard of the part breaking specifically on a v1 1/60, I've seen parts on other toys of similar design break very easily and be almost impossible to fix without a replacement part. the little rods that stick out are major week points. On the Toynami MPC's they use essentially the same design except the rectangle is die cast and I've had several of those break.

They are weak points on other toys, but not on the v1 1/60. It may also help that the hinges are locked into place securely both on it, and the 1/48.

[bandit29]

They are weak points on other toys, but not on the v1 1/60. It may also help that the hinges are locked into place securely both on it, and the 1/48.

The only weak point I ever encountered on the V1 1/60 was the plastic surrounding the hip joint had cracked. Happened to me twice.

Amazing that V2 is still having these shoulder problems...

and amazing to me after all these years that members here still shrug off Yamatos crap QC. Both old and new members....must be something in the plastic...lol

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

and amazing to me after all these years that members here still shrug off Yamatos crap QC. Both old and new members....must be something in the plastic...lol

Shrug off? I don't, I'm always aware of it, I've been Yamato'd at least 3 times.

[cazzalora]

just curious, does any one who had 1/60 VF-1S hikaru ( fast pack set) have the same problems as well?

My first order this year was a 1/60 VF-1S Strike Valkyrie Hikaru with fast pack (Yamato code: 085, Release date: December 2008, HLJ catalog: http://www.hlj.com/product/YMT00085). This model impressed me on how hard it was to transform and move the different pieces. I didn't see any breakage in the shoulder, and everything give me the impression of being more solid than the 1/60 VF-1A (Yamato code: 094, Release date: September 2008, HLJ catalog: http://www.hlj.com/product/YMT00094.

From my personal opinion I would say that Yamato with December 2008 release fixed all the problems of September 2008 release.

Edited May 7, 2009 by cazzalora

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

From my personal opinion I would say that Yamato with December 2008 release fixed all the problems of September 2008 release.

It didn't, there are a few reported breakages on the 1J.

[Omegablue]

K, anyone else know how to remove this knurling?

[Nexx Stalker]

Not a broken shoulder warning, but I've got to report that my Hikaru 1S broke the missile pods attachment on the wing on the first removal. The part where the pod attaches to the wing just came out along with the missiles. Nothing that some super glue won't repair, but maybe they've used some crappy plastic for these new toys?

[m0n5t3r]

K, anyone else know how to remove this knurling?

sorry man, i thought you weren't serious w/ the smiley.

first i removed the shoulder hinge by disassembling the backplate of the valk. remove the 3 screws - 2 for the wings, 1 for the swingbar. backplate not glued together. unscrew off the shoulder hinge. remove the whole arm assembly by removing the shoulder armor and loosening the 2 screws that were previously covered.

i dipped the area of the hinge where the pin is in some oil/lubricant (btw, i removed the pin from uncracked hinges. if it's already cracked, the pin might come out even w/out the oil)... i used the smallest pointy precision screwdriver i could find to push out the pin, fat end out first. i found that the easiest way to hold the hinge is to open it up and hold one piece/side of the hinge with your thumb and middle finger and use your index finger to counteract the force from the screwdriver pushing the pin out.

after i removed the pin, i sanded down the knurling... i remember somebody posted that they used a dremel... i just used cheap sandpaper.

the hardest part is pushing out the pin... just make sure its well lubricated and the oil has had the chance to seep into the pin. after the first one, i found it relatively easy to push the pin out of the other hinges that i did.

good luck... though i've found that there are a lot of people who are uncomfortable doing surgery or even simply disassembling their $100+ toys...

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Not a broken shoulder warning, but I've got to report that my Hikaru 1S broke the missile pods attachment on the wing on the first removal. The part where the pod attaches to the wing just came out along with the missiles. Nothing that some super glue won't repair, but maybe they've used some crappy plastic for these new toys?

I've found that removing the missles by tilting them forward works better than pulling them straight out. This way the back end of the missle clusters braces against the wing and adds more force to get the peg out.

[Omegablue]

sorry man, i thought you weren't serious w/ the smiley.

good luck... though i've found that there are a lot of people who are uncomfortable doing surgery or even simply disassembling their $100+ toys...

No hassle m0n5t3r. I don't mind a bit of surgery, and thanks. This is great advice.

[Agent-GHQ]

What is a Knurling?!

[Omegablue]

What is a Knurling?!

It's the rough end area of the pins where the hinges have been breaking. It appears that this has been causing the stress leading to the breaks.

Edited May 8, 2009 by Omegablue

[m0n5t3r]

No hassle m0n5t3r. I don't mind a bit of surgery, and thanks. This is great advice.

cool... when i did this mod, it really gave me some peace of mind... not having to support the hinge while veeerrrry gingerly posing and/or moving the arms during transformation... now i can be as rough as i can w/ my v.2 VF-1's w/out having to worry about something breaking... but still, bad Yamato...

[cazzalora]

Today I got an email from HLJ. It looks like my 'case' about the broken shoulder was passed to the HLJ parts department.

[Nexx Stalker]

I've found that removing the missles by tilting them forward works better than pulling them straight out. This way the back end of the missle clusters braces against the wing and adds more force to get the peg out.

thanks for the advice, I'll try that way with the surviving pegs