Einherjar Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 Recently, I've never seen any of the Robotech novels for sale in bookstores in northern California. However, there was one time when I saw one from the Masters Saga in a bargain bin at Boarders. Your best bet for finding them these days could be online stores, but is there still a demand for them with its current status in the series?
RavenHawk Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 Recently, I've never seen any of the Robotech novels for sale in bookstores in northern California. However, there was one time when I saw one from the Masters Saga in a bargain bin at Boarders. Your best bet for finding them these days could be online stores, but is there still a demand for them with its current status in the series? I don't think there is much demand, but for what there is, I'm sure eBay can satisfy it with old printings. I bought the complete run, all 21 books or whatever it was, a couple years back on eBay for $30.
Bri Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 (edited) You do make a very good point. However, Harmony Gold is still using their "Macross" trademark on novels in the USA. You're absolutly right, I hadn't realised they could just put a Macross logo on one of their Robotech books, whether it has any link to the content or not. The only remaining question then is if the trademark covers novels or not. Must admit that McKinley book surprised me that it covers part of the Macross saga. Found an article about characters and merchandising rights in Japanese law written by Ishida Masayasu, a professor in Japanese intellectual property law. According to the paper no copyrights can be transfered due to licensing. Paper If I interpret the paper correctly, a licensee who has merchandising rights can only reproduce the characters, and at best create derivative works. In short if this is correct then anything that uses the Macross story or characters or likenesses including merchandise such as books, toys and videogames are derivatives of the original Macross copyright of BW and under their creative control unless agreed otherwise. This really wants to make me curious what kind of agreement Tatsunoko and BW have made on merchandising. edit-spelling Edited May 13, 2009 by Bri
Einherjar Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 I heard that outside the country of origin, it's really difficult to enforce intellectual property rights. Even with agreements made between the involved parties, HG could be stretching the limits of their license(s) these days.
Ginrai Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 Recently, I've never seen any of the Robotech novels for sale in bookstores in northern California. However, there was one time when I saw one from the Masters Saga in a bargain bin at Boarders. Your best bet for finding them these days could be online stores, but is there still a demand for them with its current status in the series? I live in San Francisco and I bought all of the Robotech novels in this area. The catch is this was years and years ago. I still see the recent reprinting of the omnibus editions around a lot though, both new and used, especially used.
VF5SS Posted May 13, 2009 Posted May 13, 2009 Tie-in novels are the cheapest thing for any franchise. Easy to make and they always ship a ton of them all over. They never disappear.
Einherjar Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 Tie-in novels are the cheapest thing for any franchise. Easy to make and they always ship a ton of them all over. They never disappear. Before the retcon, can they be considered only tie-in novels for Robotech? Sure, they followed the original series to an extent, vaguely at some points, but went in a completely different direction when they couldn't animate it near the middle to end of it. Even with all the positive and negative elements in them, for a time it was considered the best version of the entire series for at least people who liked them.
VF5SS Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 But the thing about all tie-in novels is that they just don't matter. Like I said, they're cheap fodder. If this was Star Wars, their contribution would be quickly forgotten with the next round of books.
Einherjar Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 Fans sure had a fit about it when Shadow Chronicles was in the works, but it was probably going to happen with a future animated production in the works anyway. Besides legal issues, I don't even think they could animate the novels without causing controversy with its content. A Star Wars novel example; the way they killed off Chewie and deaths depicted in the books in general. Some of them were pretty gruesome even for Star Wars. In fact, I thought the brutality in Robotech II: The Sentinels was more over the top than even Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada put together.
sketchley Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 ? Are they copying a preexisting design? If not, and I'm presuming that it's from Palladium Books, it's a much better offering than their previous mecha. At least this one has similar features to the MOSPEADA bikes and looks like it was produced in the same universe. Kinda.
RavenHawk Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 ? Are they copying a preexisting design? If not, and I'm presuming that it's from Palladium Books, it's a much better offering than their previous mecha. At least this one has similar features to the MOSPEADA bikes and looks like it was produced in the same universe. Kinda. Yes, all the "new" designs in Shadow Chronicles are old MOSPEADA designs which hadn't previously been animated, or like this, which is taking a AMDriver design and putting on some MOSPEADA parts.
Jasonc Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 Everytime I look at that jeep, I just cringe. Makes me really understand how under-creative this franchise has been for a looooonnnnnnggggg time. I think Robotech has been blessed, and now cursed by continuing to use the original design works. It was the original designs that got so many interested in the series, but now they are almost forced to use those same designs due to the length of time they've had with no original content. 20+ years, and all the fans boast how well the series can do after all that time (a sad misconception), but I wonder how well it'd do with a movie, or series with completely new mecha, and all new characters? It seems like they can't escape from the licenses they have.
VF5SS Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 Amdriver's Land Bisar Behemoth is a much better jeep thing. Predates Shadow Chronicles by a few years.
Einherjar Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 It was the original designs that got so many interested in the series, but now they are almost forced to use those same designs due to the length of time they've had with no original content. 20+ years, and all the fans boast how well the series can do after all that time (a sad misconception), but I wonder how well it'd do with a movie, or series with completely new mecha, and all new characters? It seems like they can't escape from the licenses they have. Is there anything from the Southern Cross and Mospeada linear notes, artbooks, etc. that HG hasn't used in Robotech yet? By now I thought they've abused everything that was ever made and planned for in each show.
Gubaba Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 Is there anything from the Southern Cross and Mospeada linear notes, artbooks, etc. that HG hasn't used in Robotech yet? By now I thought they've abused everything that was ever made and planned for in each show. Did they ever use the Southern Cross Navy Division armor? I used to have a model kit of that guy...
Einherjar Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 Maybe it's somewhere in the new Southern Cross RPG book they released a couple of months ago. Those seem to get much of what was left out of the comics and novels.
Gubaba Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 Look at the originality! Where? Where? I can't see it! (Is this like those old "Magic Eye" things? I could never make those work, either...) Maybe it's somewhere in the new Southern Cross RPG book they released a couple of months ago. Those seem to get much of what was left out of the comics and novels. Hmm...I dunno. I kind of expect RPG books to steal every design available (and get the stats all wrong). But yeah, there is something VERY strange about trotting out twenty-five-year-old, thrown-away designs, and stating that it's "new" mecha. I'm just surprised the didn't do the same for the characters. Some of the original Southern Cross designs looked very different from the final versions in the show, and also looked HEAPS better than the designs that they ended up using for TSC...
Einherjar Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 I'm just surprised the didn't do the same for the characters. Some of the original Southern Cross designs looked very different from the final versions in the show, and also looked HEAPS better than the designs that they ended up using for TSC... They were probably going to if they made more money from the comics and RPG books. Either that or they were venturing into "new," crazy areas like this one. Robotech Adventure: Lancer's Rockers Fans give us a hard time for stuff like Macross 7, but then they get something like this? Any Mospeada fans know if this was based on something planned for the show, maybe from Love Live Alive?
Moly_Sigang Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 Is there anything from the Southern Cross and Mospeada linear notes, artbooks, etc. that HG hasn't used in Robotech yet? By now I thought they've abused everything that was ever made and planned for in each show. It's obvious that HG is creatively bankrupt. If they don't even bother designing new mecha and just simply take unused designs, it only goes to show how much they lack originality.
VF5SS Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 Any Mospeada fans know if this was based on something planned for the show, maybe from Love Live Alive? Love Live Alive is 90% clipshow a la Flashback 2012 with some new footage of Yellow's concert and there's even an interview with Yellow. Also it shows that he now lives with Soruji in a cabin near a lake. Stick even shows up despite the fact that he getting his ass to Mars last time we saw him. I seem to recall it implied that he and Aisha we're getting back together so maybe they stole that for SC.
RavenHawk Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 Robotech Adventure: Lancer's Rockers Fans give us a hard time for stuff like Macross 7, but then they get something like this? Any Mospeada fans know if this was based on something planned for the show, maybe from Love Live Alive? I don't think any of that was planned for the show and, on the off chance that it was, I'm going to pretend it never happened... It's obvious that HG is creatively bankrupt. If they don't even bother designing new mecha and just simply take unused designs, it only goes to show how much they lack originality. HG is creatively bankrupt, or Tommy Yune is creatively bankrupt? Love Live Alive is 90% clipshow a la Flashback 2012 with some new footage of Yellow's concert and there's even an interview with Yellow. Also it shows that he now lives with Soruji in a cabin near a lake. Stick even shows up despite the fact that he getting his ass to Mars last time we saw him. I seem to recall it implied that he and Aisha we're getting back together so maybe they stole that for SC. Yeah, I was never clear on how Stick was there but, then again, then weren't really too clear on WHEN, exactly, it was happening. I was under the impression that it was at least a good few months later.
Einherjar Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 HG is creatively bankrupt, or Tommy Yune is creatively bankrupt? Maybe they're bankrupt in general, but they somehow have the money to keep a brave face.
RavenHawk Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 Maybe they're bankrupt in general, but they somehow have the money to keep a brave face. I feel like the whole business model now is how to make just enough money to keep Tommy and Steve employed and bragging about how creative and brilliant they are.
Ginrai Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 I feel like the whole business model now is how to make just enough money to keep Tommy and Steve employed and bragging about how creative and brilliant they are. Where did they ever brag about that? I'd like to see that quote.
RavenHawk Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 Where did they ever brag about that? I'd like to see that quote. I'm not referring to a specific quote, just voicing my personal opinion about the general attitude that I get from them in interviews and press releases, etc.
Einherjar Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 (edited) I feel like the whole business model now is how to make just enough money to keep Tommy and Steve employed and bragging about how creative and brilliant they are. People keep talking about just Tommy, Steve and Kevin, but there must be other "talented" people in the HG crew still working on Robotech besides the office staff. Edited May 15, 2009 by Einherjar
RavenHawk Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 People keep talking about just Tommy, Steve and Kevin, but there must be other "talented" people in the HG crew still working on Robotech besides the office staff. How many people ACTUALLY work for Harmony Gold? I mean, I'm sure they outsource a ton of stuff, like animation work, possibly customer service, etc. So, how many people does it actually take to go to a few conventions, to run an out-dated website where mods to a ton of the work for free, to approve Toynami repackaging products with "Robotech" on the box, negotiate a handful of licensing matters, and maybe have an internal shipping and receiving and purchasing department? I'd be surprised if there were more than 20 employess, including interns (and have worked for companies that handled all of the above with a dozen employees and using some smart outsourcing and shared resources).
Einherjar Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 (edited) I meant staff in the creative process of new Robotech material that's not merchandising... if they still made "new" Robotech material. Those three gotta have underlings doing something that people never get to hear because they're treated as insignificant in the whole thing. But I guess they could be outsourcing those positions as well, leaving the only person in-house who's at least creative is Tommy by default. EDIT: There's Palladium, but who knows if they really care what they're doing to Robotech. Edited May 15, 2009 by Einherjar
VF5SS Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 (edited) Where did they ever brag about that? I'd like to see that quote. I once talked to him about that YF-1R on that Robotech talkshoe podcast he frequents and he was like, "yeah we got a lot out of that one haha." Edited May 15, 2009 by VF5SS
Jasonc Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 How many people ACTUALLY work for Harmony Gold? I mean, I'm sure they outsource a ton of stuff, like animation work, possibly customer service, etc. So, how many people does it actually take to go to a few conventions, to run an out-dated website where mods to a ton of the work for free, to approve Toynami repackaging products with "Robotech" on the box, negotiate a handful of licensing matters, and maybe have an internal shipping and receiving and purchasing department? I'd be surprised if there were more than 20 employess, including interns (and have worked for companies that handled all of the above with a dozen employees and using some smart outsourcing and shared resources). For the entire company itself that work in that building on Sunset, I think there's about 30 or more, give or take a few. That's just from what I've seen. From those there that actually work with Robotech, it's Tommy, Kevin, and Steve pretty much. It's not really a well oiled machine, just a bunch of half skilled rag tags, but I'm sure there are other depts. that work with them from time to time on specific things, such as licensing and legal matters. As far as unused designs, I haven't seen the new books, except for the RTSC book. I don't think they've used all the designs intended. There was a design of a MOSPEADA ride armor with hover characteristics, and a space version ride armor suit. Wait, I do know there was a design for RTSC for a hoover cyclone that looks like the original, so scratch that. I can only think of the space ride armor for now. As for Southern Cross, I believe I have lineart of a Hoover tank with a top for space. Don't know if that was the modified one in the show or supposed to be a concept or later design for the story, but I don't think they've exploited that.
Ginrai Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 (edited) As for Southern Cross, I believe I have lineart of a Hoover tank with a top for space. I bet you could really CLEAN UP with one of those! Edited May 15, 2009 by Ginrai
Wanzerfan Posted May 15, 2009 Posted May 15, 2009 They were probably going to if they made more money from the comics and RPG books. Either that or they were venturing into "new," crazy areas like this one. Robotech Adventure: Lancer's Rockers Fans give us a hard time for stuff like Macross 7, but then they get something like this? Any Mospeada fans know if this was based on something planned for the show, maybe from Love Live Alive? I have that particular module. Talk about a writer who's mentally bankrupt. Suck doesn't even begin to describe it.
Einherjar Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 For the entire company itself that work in that building on Sunset, I think there's about 30 or more, give or take a few. That's just from what I've seen. From those there that actually work with Robotech, it's Tommy, Kevin, and Steve pretty much. It's not really a well oiled machine, just a bunch of half skilled rag tags, but I'm sure there are other depts. that work with them from time to time on specific things, such as licensing and legal matters. Was there even a department that used to work on material like stories and designs for new projects before everything went silent? I'm not talking about marketing or legal areas, but one where they were brainstorming what to do next with the series story wise; perhaps the department that came up with the Shadow Rising leaked script, unless it was all Tommy's work. They did want to continue the franchise before, so there had to be other people besides him planning that part of the operation. That is unless all of the work for stuff like Shadow Chronicles were left entirely with DR Movie and Wildstorm, then that pool of talent disappeared leaving them with Tommy, Palladium, and fans again.
Jasonc Posted May 16, 2009 Posted May 16, 2009 Was there even a department that used to work on material like stories and designs for new projects before everything went silent? I'm not talking about marketing or legal areas, but one where they were brainstorming what to do next with the series story wise; perhaps the department that came up with the Shadow Rising leaked script, unless it was all Tommy's work. They did want to continue the franchise before, so there had to be other people besides him planning that part of the operation. That is unless all of the work for stuff like Shadow Chronicles were left entirely with DR Movie and Wildstorm, then that pool of talent disappeared leaving them with Tommy, Palladium, and fans again. As for a department that does that, no. It's just those 3 as of now. A number of years ago, it was 5, with Alan Letz, and Tom Bateman. But now it's just the 3 unqualified, so there's why what you've seen is what you get.
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