Robotech and HG License Debates

[Freiflug88]

HG is no doubt using those Shadow Chronicles cells again for Shadow Rising. Its not like HG should be in a hurry to tone down RSC's fanservice, the the only real service that HG delivers to their fans anyway.

man, lots of thoughts and anger here.

but when i think about it I dont really want a dub of MF, maybe Zero but not MF.

the way bandai usa dubs stuff is horrible. At least with Gundam it is. Its like the sound is flat.

and on top of that there's only 3 networks that would show it. It wouldn't get the air time and it'd be censored to meet fcc (idiots) guidelines.

And if it did get brought over and Bandai bought the rights from HG I dont think they would give it the same treatment a Gundam series gets.

Idk.... I'll write more later I need sleep.

I think dubs of MF and Zero could work well if they used the right VA talent. Bandai showed they can deliver a phenomenal job with Gurren Lagan. In my opioun their Gundam dubs have only been been horrible ever since they started the policy of recasting the same cast from Inuyusha's dub for Gundam Seed onwards.

If Bandai paid big bucks for the trademark rights from HG I would imagine them advertising Macross like crazy to make their money back and then some. Besides Gundam is barely advertised at all these days because of its solid brand recognition, treating Macross exactly like the gundam series that is familiar to virtually every anime fan in the USA would be a huge mistake.

[BeyondTheGrave]

HG is no doubt using those Shadow Chronicles cells again for Shadow Rising. Its not like HG should be in a hurry to tone down RSC's fanservice, the the only real service that HG delivers to their fans anyway.

I think dubs of MF and Zero could work well if they used the right VA talent. Bandai showed they can deliver a phenomenal job with Gurren Lagan. In my opioun their Gundam dubs have only been been horrible ever since they started the policy of recasting the same cast from Inuyusha's dub for Gundam Seed onwards.

If Bandai paid big bucks for the trademark rights from HG I would imagine them advertising Macross like crazy to make there money back and then some. Besides Gundam is barely advertised at all these days because of its solid brand recognition, treating Macross exactly like the gundam series that is familiar to virtually every anime fan in the USA would be a huge mistake.

ok I'm awake now.

Actually ADV did the casting on Gurren lagann. Bandai took it from ADV right before the DVD release. But Bandai did re-record it.

A Better example of Bandai's bad choice in casting is Code Geass. Johnny Yong Bosch should not have been Zero/ Leluch.

What help get Gundam more recognized it the fact that when tthey release Gundam Wing, G Gundam stateside their was an actual Block of programming on cable TV that was dedicated to showing Anime. But now that block of programming is now gone (RIP Toonami) the target audience 13yrs and up can't be reached easily.

But another thing I think is B.S. is that supposedly the music rights for M7 would cost entirely too much and that it would take the combine efforts of all the American anime companies to bring it over.

Upon thinking about Macross being copyrighted maybe that was more WB than HG.

Edited July 26, 2009 by BeyondTheGrave

[RedWolf]

But another thing I think is B.S. is that supposedly the music rights for M7 would cost entirely too much and that it would take the combine efforts of all the American anime companies to bring it over.

Upon thinking about Macross being copyrighted maybe that was more WB than HG.

Victor Records and the music artists have a cut whenever their music is sold. So that is the real situation.

That's how contracts work. Especially if it was made in the late 90's.

WB wasn't even in the scene during HG trademarking Macross and the Tokyo court decision granting who has rights to Macross between Tatsunoko, and Big West and Studio Nue.

Not to make you sound like a total newbie but please read the first page to get a better grasp of the discussion.

[Freiflug88]

ok I'm awake now.

Actually ADV did the casting on Gurren lagann. Bandai took it from ADV right before the DVD release. But Bandai did re-record it.

A Better example of Bandai's bad choice in casting is Code Geass. Johnny Yong Bosch should not have been Zero/ Leluch.

What help get Gundam more recognized it the fact that when tthey release Gundam Wing, G Gundam stateside their was an actual Block of programming on cable TV that was dedicated to showing Anime. But now that block of programming is now gone (RIP Toonami) the target audience 13yrs and up can't be reached easily.

But another thing I think is B.S. is that supposedly the music rights for M7 would cost entirely too much and that it would take the combine efforts of all the American anime companies to bring it over.

Upon thinking about Macross being copyrighted maybe that was more WB than HG.

I have never heard the original Japanese voices for Code Geass, but I did enjoy the English Voice acting of Code Geass none of the less. Everyone has their own thoughts about dubs though. Personally I think Bandai's real failure was having the initial release of Code Geasse in English Dub only with no option for listening to the Japanese Dub.

Exactly, Gundam has the recognition thanks to Toonami. All Bandai has to do is put Gundam stuff on shelves and even teens who aren't anime fans will buy them like hotcakes. Without the great exposure that Toonami once provided to all teens, Bandai will have to work that much harder to market Macross to anime fans via the internet, convention panels, and retail shelves.

[Macross007]

HG is no doubt using those Shadow Chronicles cells again for Shadow Rising. Its not like HG should be in a hurry to tone down RSC's fanservice, the the only real service that HG delivers to their fans anyway.

lol !!! A new sig for me. Thanks dude.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Victor Records and the music artists have a cut whenever their music is sold. So that is the real situation.

That's how contracts work. Especially if it was made in the late 90's.

WB wasn't even in the scene during HG trademarking Macross and the Tokyo court decision granting who has rights to Macross between Tatsunoko, and Big West and Studio Nue.

Not to make you sound like a total newbie but please read the first page to get a better grasp of the discussion.

Yeah but the idea of making a live action movie of Robotech or Macross may have been on someone head at WB/ HG for a while.

They could have been in talks longer than anyone may actually know.

You Have to remember 1999-2002 was the year American comics started being made into Live action films. so that was probably a large motivator of why they trademarked it. And if they wanted WB to do it at the time they just did the Matrix and were working on the rest. So it'd be a logical to go to WB to get your epic, zany,defy all logic movie made. But in order for Wb to say sure lets go for it. They say want total rights for worldwide distribution .

Because for some reason WB will not air there properties in multiples. Ex: batman movie no batman cartoon.

But anyway thats just my conspiracy rant.

Code Geass Japanese dub. There was A deference when Lelouch was talking and when zero was talking.

Mainly Lelouch was a very happy and preppy teen without a care in the world while Zero had a more serious tone of if you don't follow me you will die Imo.

[Freiflug88]

lol !!! A new sig for me. Thanks dude.

What are Tatsunko or something? Who said you could have the interweb distributional rights to what I type?

Yeah but the idea of making a live action movie of Robotech or Macross may have been on someone head at WB/ HG for a while.

They could have been in talks longer than anyone may actually know.

You Have to remember 1999-2002 was the year American comics started being made into Live action films. so that was probably a large motivator of why they trademarked it. And if they wanted WB to do it at the time they just did the Matrix and were working on the rest. So it'd be a logical to go to WB to get your epic, zany,defy all logic movie made. But in order for Wb to say sure lets go for it. They say want total rights for worldwide distribution .

Because for some reason WB will not air there properties in multiples. Ex: batman movie no batman cartoon.

But anyway thats just my conspiracy rant.

Code Geass Japanese dub. There was A deference when Lelouch was talking and when zero was talking.

Mainly Lelouch was a very happy and preppy teen without a care in the world while Zero had a more serious tone of if you don't follow me you will die Imo.

The idea of profiting off a Robotech movie has no doubt been an idea of HG for a long time probably even before they acquired the trademarks. It wasn't until after Transformers was a huge success that HG and WB got together and become serious about the Robotech movie though. If WB and HG really were serious about a Robotech movie back in 1999-2002 like I think your suggesting then they would have at a finalized script to show by now.

I am suprised that Lelouch would even be portrayed as a happy and preppy teen without a care in the world in the Japanese dub. I always saw him as a cross between Light Yagami from Death Note and Char from Gundam personally.

Edited July 26, 2009 by Freiflug88

[BeyondTheGrave]

What are Tatsunko or something? Who said you could have the interweb distributional rights to what I type?

The idea of profiting off a Robotech movie has no doubt been an idea of HG for a long time probably even before they acquired the trademarks. It wasn't until after Transformers was a huge success that HG and WB got together and become serious about the Robotech movie though. If WB and HG really were serious about a Robotech movie back in 1999-2002 like I think your suggesting then they would have at a finalized script to show by now.

I am suprised that Lelouch would even be portrayed as a happy and preppy teen without a care in the world in the Japanese dub. I always saw him as a cross between Light Yagami from Death Note and Char from Gundam personally.

well maybe they had a very good script and WB said THIS IS TOO GOOD and threw it in the fire.

Maybe not a happy care free teen but just a teen with all his attributes. The Japaneses dub was like listening to Kevin Conroy as Batman and Bruce wayne

[Seto Kaiba]

It would be even more awesome if the Veritechs could talk!!!

Robotech Defenders what?

[Freiflug88]

well maybe they had a very good script and WB said THIS IS TOO GOOD and threw it in the fire.

Maybe not a happy care free teen but just a teen with all his attributes. The Japaneses dub was like listening to Kevin Conroy as Batman and Bruce wayne

WB must've hired Basara as the script writer. His scripts are always Fire Bombers and are just too hot for Hollywood to handle. So they always end up tossing them into the fire and tell him to write again write again.

For as we all know Briticana's are a superstitious cowardly lot.

They plan and plot, but they always get caught.

There evil schemes will come to not.

[BeyondTheGrave]

WB must've hired Basara as the script writer. His scripts are always Fire Bombers and are just too hot for Hollywood to handle. So they always end up tossing them into the fire and tell him to write again write again.

For as we all know Briticana's are a superstitious cowardly lot.

They plan and plot, but they always get caught.

There evil schemes will come to not.

that would explain why superman returns and matrix revolutions sucked; and why most all their tv series suck.

[jenius]

On a tangental note, since it was mentioned earlier, the Stealth VF-1S toy is actually not very similar to the 25th anniversary Yamato toy at all. It actually has a lot of navy blue in it, some flat grays, and the obvious gold trim. In most pictures you've seen all the dark colors mesh and all that stands out is the gold on what appears to be black... I'll try to have some really good pictures on my site for my next post.

[Duke Togo]

There were a couple references to Macross Frontier, including one question about whether or not it could be included in Robotech. Tommy stated that as far as he knew there was ongoing litigation in Japan as to the proper ownership of Macross. He then pretty much tap danced around the rights issues, as I imagine he should as he’s no lawyer, and said Macross Frontier “had some pretty impressive animation” but due to the rights issues… shrug. There was no mention of the death of the Beagle line of toys but I didn’t think there would be as that seems like a topic for Toynami directly.

Tommy Yune is full of shite. He is outright lying, here.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Duke Togo

[terry the lone wolf]

On a tangental note, since it was mentioned earlier, the Stealth VF-1S toy is actually not very similar to the 25th anniversary Yamato toy at all. It actually has a lot of navy blue in it, some flat grays, and the obvious gold trim. In most pictures you've seen all the dark colors mesh and all that stands out is the gold on what appears to be black... I'll try to have some really good pictures on my site for my next post.

That was a nice review of the panel. What I found that was interesting is that Carl planned to use DYRL as Robotech the Movie but the rights were too expensive. I always wondered if DYRL could fit in the RT universe and I always end up thinking no. Though, the feature doesn't really fit in the Macross universe either(a movie that generalized Space War One into a two hour feature; yeah right). I really believe if those Canon big wigs would've stayed out of it RT the Movie would've been a decent side story.

[Einherjar]

That was a nice review of the panel. What I found that was interesting is that Carl planned to use DYRL as Robotech the Movie but the rights were too expensive. I always wondered if DYRL could fit in the RT universe and I always end up thinking no. Though, the feature doesn't really fit in the Macross universe either(a movie that generalized Space War One into a two hour feature; yeah right). I really believe if those Canon big wigs would've stayed out of it RT the Movie would've been a decent side story.

Is that what really happened back then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robotech:_The_Movie

[Freiflug88]

That was a nice review of the panel. What I found that was interesting is that Carl planned to use DYRL as Robotech the Movie but the rights were too expensive. I always wondered if DYRL could fit in the RT universe and I always end up thinking no. Though, the feature doesn't really fit in the Macross universe either(a movie that generalized Space War One into a two hour feature; yeah right). I really believe if those Canon big wigs would've stayed out of it RT the Movie would've been a decent side story.

That is interesting. I had always wondered why HG somehow got merchandise rights to DYRL, but never edited DYRL into a Robotech movie. I find it a shame that Carl couldn't afford the rights at the time. Had DYRL been a Robotech Movie then we would have at least had a decent English dub of DYRL instead of "Attack of the Bionoids" and at least a possibly of a DYRL release by ADV.

Is that what really happened back then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robotech:_The_Movie

Probably. It makes perfect sense for Carl to consider DYRL, and then turn to the cheaper Megazone 23 to create an alternative Robotech movie. As for Tatsunko's excuse not to use Macross footage to avoid consfusion between DYRL and Robotech: The Movie it was no doubt just a just a convenient way of telling Carl Macek that he couldn't use SDF Macross footage in a movie PERIOD. Tatsunko no doubt figured that if they allowed Carl to settle with editing SDF Macross footage into a theatrical release like "Robotech: the movie" then their would be no way for them to possibly sell the expensive DYRL rights to HG and Carl at a later date.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Freiflug88

[TheLoneWolf]

Is that what really happened back then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robotech:_The_Movie

Never cite Wikipedia.

That article has several errors and omissions, plus it's only cited sources are two (dead) links to some random fan page.

[jenius]

Carl mentioned Do You Remember Love several times and elaborated quite a bit on Robotech the Movie which I condensed in my post. He said a couple big wigs from Cannon (Canon? Sorry, I probably should know that spelling) were watching the TV and saw a report that compared the popularity of Robotech (currently shown on TV) to Disney's upcoming film, the Black Cauldron (crap, I'm probably spelling that wrong too). The news report seemed to suggest that Robotech would be even more popular as a feature film. Later, while in a hot tub with a couple of lady friends, they started boasting that they had inroads with a property that could be more popular than Disney's next film. They picked up the phone and called the head of HG and said "Hey, we want to make a movie." The head of HG then called Carl some time after 10PM and said "Hey, can you make a Robotech the Movie?" and Carl thought of DYRL? and said "Sure, I think we can do that." They went to Japan to make it happen but Macross had gotten too popular for Carl to secure the rights. From there he started making RT: The Movie using Megazone23. He had mashed together a very rough cut taking place while the SDF-1 was in deep space, before it returned to Earth, but a Cannon/Canon exec flew to Japan, watched it, and HATED it. He flew back to the states, told the other execs about it, and they called Carl back to the states to discuss it. Carl was told to do something different with the film so he essentially made the plot up to the current RT: The Movie film while on the spot. He said he really sold the new plot hard, making it sound much more exciting, and they let him finish and release the film. Then, when the film was later put out, it was released the same weekend as Aliens and that was that. He said it didn't do all that horribly bad compared to some other flops at the time but that it was clear nobody knew how to market it. Crap, I should edit my post and include all this.

[Duke Togo]

So, Carl just basically admitted what HG has been unwilling to for a few years now: They don't own the rights to DYRL?

[Freiflug88]

Its spelled Cannon Films, Jenuis. http://www.cannonfilms.com/films2.html

From what I heard though, Robotech: The Movie never had Macross Footage attached to it ever and that the first version that Carl showed Cannon Films was l a censored and English dub Megazone 23 with spoken references to Rick Hunter, the SDF, etc to tie it in to Robotech. It was only after the Cannon execs were bored with this movie version did Carl get the idea to add Robotech footage to give it more Action is what I was told.

[jenius]

Its spelled Cannon Films, Jenuis. http://www.cannonfilms.com/films2.html

From what I heard though, Robotech: The Movie never had Macross Footage attached to it ever and that the first version that Carl showed Cannon Films was l a censored and English dub Megazone 23 with spoken references to Rick Hunter, the SDF, etc to tie it in to Robotech. It was only after the Cannon execs were bored with this movie version did Carl get the idea to add Robotech footage to give it more Action is what I was told.

That makes sense and wouldn't conflict with what Carl said at all. The "mashed together" version are my words, he said they had "put together a very rough cut that didn't even have audio yet."

So, Carl just basically admitted what HG has been unwilling to for a few years now: They don't own the rights to DYRL?

That was precisely my thought as well. Carl implied that Macross' popularity made the rights to DYRL too expensive to obtain. Thus, HG at that point in time, understood they did NOT have the rights to DYRL? The problem is in that contract that HG has with Tatsunoko and the wording that HG has gotten very greedy with many years after this all happened.

Edited July 27, 2009 by jenius

[Duke Togo]

That was precisely my thought as well. Carl implied that Macross' popularity made the rights to DYRL too expensive to obtain. Thus, HG at that point in time, understood they did NOT have the rights to DYRL? The problem is in that contract that HG has with Tatsunoko and the wording that HG has gotten very greedy with many years after this all happened.

How long before Tommy Yune comes out and claims that Carl really had little to do with Robotech and never officially worked for Harmony Gold?

[Einherjar]

I would have had to look for the Robotech Art book 3 or something if I didn't use the wiki page. There's also rt.com, but how reliable is that?

How long before Tommy Yune comes out and claims that Carl really had little to do with Robotech and never officially worked for Harmony Gold?

Oust Papa Bear himself? Like he and anyone in HG would have the guts to do that.

[taksraven]

There were a couple references to Macross Frontier, including one question about whether or not it could be included in Robotech.

Lets just pause for a second and imagine the bile and hatred that such an event would generate here. :lol:

Taksraven

[Duke Togo]

Oust Papa Bear himself? Like he and anyone in HG would have the guts to do that.

This just in: Tommy Yune says neither HG or BW hold the copyright on Macross; he does.

[Macross007]

How long before Tommy Yune comes out and claims that Carl really had little to do with Robotech and never officially worked for Harmony Gold?

Since when editing other people works can be considered as a form of work in the first place anyway ?

[Gubaba]

Since when editing other people works can be considered as a form of work in the first place anyway ?

"Editor" can be a highly respected job: WORLD'S GREATEST EDITOR.

Magazines and newspapers wouldn't exist if it weren't for editors, yes, editing other people's work.

Film editing can make all the difference between a good movie than a bad movie.

Of course, none of this has anything to do with Robotech, which was more (being charitable here) "revised" rather than edited...

[Freiflug88]

Lets just pause for a second and imagine the bile and hatred that such an event would generate here. :lol:

Taksraven

That is Unless...

Conan O'Brien does the english dub!

http://www.hulu.com/watch/85526/the-tonigh...anga#s-p1-st-i1

MANGAAAAAAA!

Edited July 28, 2009 by Freiflug88

[Einherjar]

Since when editing other people works can be considered as a form of work in the first place anyway ?

Fans and money make all of that possible.

1. Create a demographics openly willing to listen to whatever crazy ideas you have after your initial success. It does not have to last forever, but it helps.

2. Start a merchandising frenzy with the goal of getting all the money you can from said demographics, now called the fandom.

3. Let your ego go so high as to make you break into a position with so many responsibilities, but having little real knowledge of how to handle it, and flop spectacularly.

4. Quietly walk away from the disaster(s) you've created with the money and enduring respect of your diehard fans.

5. Let nostalgia and old laurels turn you into a legend in storytelling, despite the industry you helped create generally frowning down on your legendary methods.

6. Let the company you help succeed preserve your legacy by taking advantage of the origins of your creation legally, ultimately leading to a Catch-22 in your career's favor.

7. Sell out when a new crew derails all the crazy ideas you previously had for more money and fame, especially when they're following dangerously close to the the same methods you took to get where you are in a different thinking world.

8. Let the fans preserve your legacy when the comparisons between old and new crews start.

[jenius]

If anyone here thinks Robotech is just an edited version of Macross* then I think you're not much of a Macross* fan.

EDIT - * insert the name of any of the three shows there.

Edited July 28, 2009 by jenius

[Gubaba]

That is Unless...

Conan O'Brien does the english dub!

http://www.hulu.com/watch/85526/the-tonigh...anga#s-p1-st-i1

MANGAAAAAAA!

Especially when they're directed by Rick Hunter himself!

(God, that Rick voice really IS his normal speaking voice, isn't it...?)

[Macross007]

Fans and money make all of that possible.

1. Create a demographics openly willing to listen to whatever crazy ideas you have after your initial success. It does not have to last forever, but it helps.

2. Start a merchandising frenzy with the goal of getting all the money you can from said demographics, now called the fandom.

3. Let your ego go so high as to make you break into a position with so many responsibilities, but having little real knowledge of how to handle it, and flop spectacularly.

4. Quietly walk away from the disaster(s) you've created with the money and enduring respect of your diehard fans.

5. Let nostalgia and old laurels turn you into a legend in storytelling, despite the industry you helped create generally frowning down on your legendary methods.

6. Let the company you help succeed preserve your legacy by taking advantage of the origins of your creation legally, ultimately leading to a Catch-22 in your career's favor.

7. Sell out when a new crew derails all the crazy ideas you previously had for more money and fame, especially when they're following dangerously close to the the same methods you took to get where you are in a different thinking world.

8. Let the fans preserve your legacy when the comparisons between old and new crews start.

Please mods, create a "Macross World Post Of The Year" for that guy.

[Freiflug88]

Especially when they're directed by Rick Hunter himself!

(God, that Rick voice really IS his normal speaking voice, isn't it...?)

I never even noticed him in the clip.

I rewatched it again and wondered how in the world did I ever miss Tony Oliver's name showing up!

(I would still choose Rick's voice over Vic Mignogna's Hikaru anyday though.)

I would also love to listen to the Audio Commentaries with Rick Hunter speaking about what he thinks of Macross Frontier.

"2059 and you guys are still looking for me, I am touched. Wait a sec Save Minmay Soon! Come on guys don't you have all her CDs already. I am the one with the Protoculture here!

"Great, Lynn Kyle is the hero of this time..."

"Wow, I knew Bro had Jungle fever, but boy I never expected him to actually pull off going black face. And what is he doing with my Lisa!"

"Alright where is Claudia? That Holly Berry look-a-like was always my black fantasy... Oh God No! She got a SEX CHANGE! The horror! The Deculture! Thats it! Dr. Lang I need my Protocutlture dope NOW!"

Please mods, create a "Macross World Post Of The Year" for that guy.

Running out of quote space in you signature, eh?

Edited July 28, 2009 by Freiflug88

[terry the lone wolf]

MANGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

I like fish.

[Einherjar]

9. Let all of the above continue to vindicate your reputation when, every few years, something comes around to challenge the story you made all those years ago. None of it changes the fact that you showed your version to the viewers that mattered first and it will always be readily available compared to the competition.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Einherjar