Radd Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 IP laws are pretty crazy and it's been a long time since I studied this in any depth, but I'm pretty sure anyone can file for a trademark. An approved trademark can be successfully challenged. On top of it all, there are international laws regarding different forms of IP protection, such as copyrights and trademarks. The Macross logo counts as design from the series. HG's rights to it are as limited as their rights to SDF:M. They do have rights to it, but it is not the same as the complete ownership. They do have the right to trademark it, as the legitimate distributer for the tv series, but that does not mean BW could not later challenge the trademark if HG used it to infringe on BW's rights, as RedWolf has suggested.
Freiflug88 Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 I don't doubt that BW can challenge HG's trademark in courts, but I do doubt if it would be worth the hassle for BW. Just scheduling and challenging HG's trademark in single case would be expensive and time consuming. Then multiply it by all the countries HG has a Macross trademark in. Even assuming that BW wins no contest in the actual courts BW could easily waste more money then Macross is worth obtaining all those trademarks back. And then once the expensive legal war is finally over how is an exhausted BW going to get back on its feet and produce new Macross series? With its new cash flow from all those now dated Macross series sold in bargain bins across the world?
Bri Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) The Macross logo counts as design from the series. HG's rights to it are as limited as their rights to SDF:M. They do have rights to it, but it is not the same as the complete ownership. They do have the right to trademark it, as the legitimate distributer for the tv series, but that does not mean BW could not later challenge the trademark if HG used it to infringe on BW's rights, as RedWolf has suggested. Yea agreed, the trademark used on SDFM should not affect derivative series owned by Big West. However the easy solution, getting seperate trademarks for Macross Plus, Macross Zero, Macross 7 and Macross Frontier seems impossible with the failure of the attempt with Macross Plus by Big West, the reason might be that the marks are to similar. I don't doubt that BW can challenge HG's trademark in courts, but I do doubt if it would be worth the hassle for BW. Just scheduling and challenging HG's trademark in single case would be expensive and time consuming. Then multiply it by all the countries HG has a Macross trademark in. Even assuming that BW wins no contest in the actual courts BW could easily waste more money then Macross is worth obtaining all those trademarks back. And then once the expensive legal war is finally over how is an exhausted BW going to get back on its feet and produce new Macross series? With its new cash flow from all those now dated Macross series sold in bargain bins across the world? Not really, a trademark in more then one EU country can be challenge through the EU courts, and would affect all member states. Think there is a similar agreement between US and Canada, it would be two cases max. Edited July 22, 2009 by Bri
taksraven Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Slightly OT, but this sort of thing makes me hope that Imagi have had their lawyers check out the legal status and ownership of Gatchaman outside of Japan, because they could potentially have to deal with many previous owners of the franchise and its elements in the West, including Saban Entertainment, ADV films, Sandy Frank, Turner Broadcasting and Urban Vision. I think its pretty safe to assume that they would at least have things sorted out with Tatsunoko. Taksraven
Freiflug88 Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) Not really, a trademark in more then one EU country can be challenge through the EU courts, and would affect all member states. Think there is a similar agreement between US and Canada, it would be two cases max. Didn't know that about the EU. I believe HG also has trademarks in Chile, Mexico, and maybe a few other Spainish speaking countries though. From what I heard Spainish dubs of Robotech and Macross are very popular. Who knows maybe BW will just ignore those 3rd world countries. Slightly OT, but this sort of thing makes me hope that Imagi have had their lawyers check out the legal status and ownership of Gatchaman outside of Japan, because they could potentially have to deal with many previous owners of the franchise and its elements in the West, including Saban Entertainment, ADV films, Sandy Frank, Turner Broadcasting and Urban Vision. I think its pretty safe to assume that they would at least have things sorted out with Tatsunoko. Taksraven Its not too off topic. Harmony Gold actually has the license to the 94' OAV now that Urban Vision's license expired. As for the Original Gatchaman Turner's G-Force was part of a license deal with Sandy Frank in 80s, but Sandy Frank's rights expired sometime in the late 90s. So its only ADV and Harmony Gold with rights over the Gatchaman series and OAVs respectively here in the States. Since this Gatchaman movie is a new derivative though I am sure Tatsunko is the only one Imagi needs approval from. I doubt HG has a trademark on Gatchaman... Now I have doubt Imagi has everything cleared with Tatsunoko. I personally like to call Tatsunoko the "animation whorehouse of Japan" because history has shown they will let anyone have their way with their franchises in exchange for money. By September I will hopefully have some interesting info on the Gatchaman movie though. I am personal friends with the Animation Director of Dragon Con and this year she is bringing in the writer Paul Dini as a guest. Too bad I don't have enough money to finish the Joe The Condor cosplay I was planning though. Edited July 23, 2009 by Freiflug88
Einherjar Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) Let me put your mind at ease right now, that NO nothing announced at Comicon will change the legal situations. I'm assuming that your talking about the ominous statement that people are hinting at. Guess you're right, end of the Beagle MOSPEADA line is the big thing so far. I wonder how Toynami and HG are going to respond to it at tonight's panel? Edited July 23, 2009 by Einherjar
jenius Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Tonight's panel is by HG, I wouldn't be surprised if ther's almost no toynami discussion. Toynami still seems hesitant with the news, I doubt hg would be in a better spot to talk about it
chrisk Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Tonight's panel is by HG, I wouldn't be surprised if ther's almost no toynami discussion. Toynami still seems hesitant with the news, I doubt hg would be in a better spot to talk about it Saw this image: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3427/374994...3bbeb5c.jpg?v=0 I'm guessing the "Battlepod" toy seen behind the "Stealth Valkyrie" (Robotech names can seem so generic at times...) is the only "new" Toynami clunker in the market?
Duke Togo Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Saw this image: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3427/374994...3bbeb5c.jpg?v=0 I'm guessing the "Battlepod" toy seen behind the "Stealth Valkyrie" (Robotech names can seem so generic at times...) is the only "new" Toynami clunker in the market? /point /laugh
Einherjar Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I'm guessing the "Battlepod" toy seen behind the "Stealth Valkyrie" (Robotech names can seem so generic at times...) is the only "new" Toynami clunker in the market? It's not even going to be released for either the Robotech or Macross toy lines, but part of the "Robot Vinyl Collection." From other pictures I've seen, 01 is going to be both the original and black spray-painted versions of Voltron and 02 being the Battlepod "pending licensing approval." It could turn out to be a hodgepodge of anime toys featuring all the licenses the company has. And that Stealth Veritech is still mislabeled as a Robotech item.
valkyriepilot Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) It's not even going to be released for either the Robotech or Macross toy lines, but part of the "Robot Vinyl Collection." From other pictures I've seen, 01 is going to be both the original and black spray-painted versions of Voltron and 02 being the Battlepod "pending licensing approval." It could turn out to be a hodgepodge of anime toys featuring all the licenses the company has. And that Stealth Veritech is still mislabeled as a Robotech item. sounds like they're imitating Bandai's Robot Damashii line... Edited July 24, 2009 by valkyriepilot
jenius Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) The 1/100 toy is a Robotech Veritech, not a Macross Valkyrie, there is no mislabeling. Toynami has the rights to either name and they chose to make the Stealth a Robotech toy. That's not a mistake, that's a decision. As the stealth didn't appear in either Robotech or Macross there's no reason to argue it should be one instead of the other. "Stealth Valkyrie" (Robotech names can seem so generic at times...) To be fair, Yamato made a "Stealth" nearly all black valkyrie. So, you should say "Robotech and Macross names can seem so generic at times. Edited July 24, 2009 by jenius
Einherjar Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 To be fair, Yamato made a "Stealth" nearly all black valkyrie. So, you should say "Robotech and Macross names can seem so generic at times. It doesn't help when companies like Toynami deliberately do stuff like this to make it stay that way. Non-canon toys are fine, a la different color schemes, but here not only is this a non-canon toy, to a point it's also non-relevant to Robotech, a design never seen before in it. But hey, these days Robotech can't help but be only merchandise driven, right? Slap the Robotech/Macross label on it and it will be a guaranteed seller.
sharky Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 That battlepod looks pretty sweet. http://sdcc09.figures.com/showphoto.php?photo=1503
Freiflug88 Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 What scale is that Pod? If its just the repainted Revoltech Scout Regult that was released last year then should be 1/130th scale. No scale was listed on the actual Revoltech box, but since the toy is listed as being 14cm tall and the Regult Scout is listed at a height of 18.20 meters on Macross Compendium I calculated the scale to be 130 after dividing 1820 by 14. http://www.kirinhobby.com/shop/product_inf...roducts_id=1578 http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Regult
anime52k8 Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) If its just the repainted Revoltech Scout Regult that was released last year then should be 1/130th scale. No scale was listed on the actual Revoltech box, but since the toy is listed as being 14cm tall and the Regult Scout is listed at a height of 18.20 meters on Macross Compendium I calculated the scale to be 130 after dividing 1820 by 14. http://www.kirinhobby.com/shop/product_inf...roducts_id=1578 http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Regult it's not a Revoltech. it's a new Vinyl toy. http://sdcc09.figures.com/showphoto.php?photo=1504 Hard to say from the pics but it looks about the same height as the 1/100 valks on stands with FAST packs. that would make it maybe ~20cm, so about 1/75~76 there about. Edited July 25, 2009 by anime52k8
Freiflug88 Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) it's not a Revoltech. it's a new Vinyl toy. http://sdcc09.figures.com/showphoto.php?photo=1504 Hard to say from the pics but it looks about the same height as the 1/100 valks on stands with FAST packs. that would make it maybe ~20cm, so about 1/75~76 there about. Didn't see the 1/100 valks for the last post. Are they from the same Vinyl toyline as well? Even though its not a Revoltech Regult it not to hard for me to believe that HG and Vinyl just copied Revoltech's idea of a 1/130 scale Regult for their battlepod. Also 1/75 Scale sounds way to big for me. Take a look at how Revoltech's own 1/100 Valks with Fastpacks (no stands though) are about the same size as their 1/130 Regult in a side by side comparison 2:30 into Collection DX's video toy review . Also take a look of the Zentradi-mecha comparison photo here: EDIT: I don't see how the battlepod toy is huge enough to be 1/75 scale considering how much a Battlepod towers over a VF-1 on a 1 to 1 scale. Edited July 25, 2009 by Freiflug88
jenius Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) If you haven't been following my Comic-con posts, here's a pic of the battlepod from a distance to give you an idea about scale: I'm of the impression they're 1/100 scale. Edited July 25, 2009 by jenius
anime52k8 Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Didn't see the 1/100 valks for the last post. Are they from the same Vinyl toyline as well? Even though its not a Revoltech Regult it not to hard for me to believe that HG and Vinyl just copied Revoltech's idea of a 1/130 scale Regult for their battlepod. Also 1/75 Scale sounds way to big for me. Take a look at how Revoltech's own 1/100 Valks with Fastpacks (no stands though) are about the same size as their 1/130 Regult in a side by side comparison 2:30 into Collection DX's video toy review . Also take a look of the Zentradi-mecha comparison photo here: EDIT: I don't see how the battlepod toy is huge enough to be 1/75 scale considering how much a Battlepod towers over a VF-1 on a 1 to 1 scale. the 1/100 are a line of transforming toys, not part of the new robot vinyl line. For the Scale this is what I did: Just from looking at the pics, the Regult figure looks about as tall as the 1/100 scale figures in battroid mode, with stands and fast packs. I have a 1/100 1J myself so I measured how tall it was on the stand and with the fast packs it was in the 20cm range so I rounded it off to an even 20cm. (the 1/100 VF-1's are actually more like 1/90 scale. The basic Regult stands 15.12 meters (the extra 3 meters on the scout comes from the large sensor mast) so 15.12 meters= 1512cm, 1512cm/20cm = 75.6 so 1/75~76 scale.
terry the lone wolf Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 From the robotechnews twitter feed: "Warner Bros. and Harmony Gold in merchandising deal for Robotech." "More trade paperbacks of Robotech comics coming, starting with Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles! New material!
chrisk Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) Lots of really cool stuff coming out of Comic Con, notably Tron (of all things) and Avatar. I can't really say the same for Robotech... yet. Yet another year of promises and... a battlepod. Pending licensor approval. From the robotechnews twitter feed: "More trade paperbacks of Robotech comics coming, starting with Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles! New material! I must warn you - the new material may not mean a new comic drawn by the Udon crew. Obviously a new cover and foreword by Tommy Yune and an addendum written by some unpaid fan trying to explain the nonsensical plot of Prelude. You'll probably find better value downloading the series off the net and reading Captain JLS' excellent notes. Yamato made a "Stealth" nearly all black valkyrie. So, you should say "Robotech and Macross names can seem so generic at times. In any case, the Robotwitter has the toy has predictably sold out in record time. Horray! Macross is lucrative! Oh, and Ain't It Cool posted stuff about that Voltron movie thing... Chuck Rover ditched Robotech for this? Hollywood Reporter's Risky Business blog has delved into the efforts to kickstart the live action of combining giant robot Voltron. ImageAtlas Entertainment’s Charles Roven, Richard Suckle and Steve Alexander, the producers behind "Get Smart" and "The International" (and Roven of course also produced "The Dark Knight) have acquired the rights to make a live-action feature based on the robot-lion property, pushing the project forward after several years in development with the Mark Gordon Company. Cool. Read this pretty nifty write-up on the Robotech panel: http://anymoon.com/blog/2009/07/24/day-2-u...robotech-panel/ Here's an interesting quote: There were a couple references to Macross Frontier, including one question about whether or not it could be included in Robotech. Tommy stated that as far as he knew there was ongoing litigation in Japan as to the proper ownership of Macross. He then pretty much tap danced around the rights issues, as I imagine he should as he’s no lawyer, and said Macross Frontier “had some pretty impressive animation” but due to the rights issues… shrug. There was no mention of the death of the Beagle line of toys but I didn’t think there would be as that seems like a topic for Toynami directly. Edited July 25, 2009 by chrisk
Freiflug88 Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 I'm of the impression they're 1/100 scale. I had the same impression Jenius, until... The basic Regult stands 15.12 meters (the extra 3 meters on the scout comes from the large sensor mast) so 15.12 meters= 1512cm, 1512cm/20cm = 75.6 so 1/75~76 scale. Dow! That explains it. This whole time I thought the Basic Regults were considered scouts. So Revolttech's Regult is only a 1/108 scale then: 1512cm/14cm. They probably rounded down and consider their Regult 1/100 scale like their Valks. With the Revoltech Regult more accurate scale and the fact that it is on a much smaller scale then the Battlepod in question I can see now its extremely likely the Battlepod is in the 1/75~76 ballpark. Unfortunately there is no way to tell if the 20cm is truly accurate for the Battlepod toy from this photos, but they sound close enough for me. Has anyone at Comic Con considered just asking an HG representative the scale of their Battlepod toy? I am sure they wouldn't exaggerate the size of their battlepod, like they do with their "tripods" all the time. "Warner Bros. and Harmony Gold in merchandising deal for Robotech." "More trade paperbacks of Robotech comics coming, starting with Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles! New material! LOL. HG and WB have had a merchandising deal for Robotech ever since the Robotech comics started to be published by Wildstrom comics, part of Warner Brothers Entertainment. YAY! Finally "new" paperback Robotech comics! HG must of heard the complaints from guys like Montage that the hardbacks were harder to burn.
terry the lone wolf Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 I had the same impression Jenius, until... LOL. HG and WB have had a merchandising deal for Robotech ever since the Robotech comics started to be published by Wildstrom comics, part of Warner Brothers Entertainment. Well that started the relationship. That and the fact Tommy Yune was an ex-employee of Wildstorm. This new deal cements the joint venture with a emphasis on pushing the Robotech brand to all sorts of media. WB has recently acquired Midway games. Could be a possible RT video game heading down the pipeline?
Freiflug88 Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Oh, and Ain't It Cool posted stuff about that Voltron movie thing... Chuck Rover ditched Robotech for this? Well WB has to have someone to produce Voltron after obtaining it. See only after America gets used to the concepts of combing mecha, transforming Kawamori fighters, emo pilots with their formfitting jumpsuits, etc through the Voltron, Robotech, and Evangelion LAMs will Hollywood and movie goers be prepared for a possible Aquarion LAM which screams a Micheal Bay urinating super robot hit! Best part is that an Aquarion movie would is nearly guaranteed to have at least one awesome merge scene with hot chicks and veiled nudity otherwise there is no point in releasing an Aquarion movie period.
Einherjar Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) Well that started the relationship. That and the fact Tommy Yune was an ex-employee of Wildstorm. This new deal cements the joint venture with a emphasis on pushing the Robotech brand to all sorts of media. WB has recently acquired Midway games. Could be a possible RT video game heading down the pipeline? Since this is going to be a joint venture between both companies, or something WB agreed to do with HG's approval, I'd like to hear more from someone in WB for a change. Get their perspective on the project. They could have at least had a representative from WB at the panel to say some generic lines about the LAM progress rather than have the regular people say it. There would be no better place for positive publicity. Just like the issues between Tatsunoko and BW/Studio Nue, HG seems like the only party who cares about talking about the situation with the movie regularly. Then again, the future of the franchise is riding on it. Also, they haven't done much these days to show or talk about besides it. Edited July 25, 2009 by Einherjar
Freiflug88 Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Yeah, it would be nice to hear what the guys at WB actually think of Robotech and if they really agree with HG that RT will be the next Star Wars, but with nothing solid to actually show for the LAM at this point its no doubt in WB's own interest to remain silent on the issue at least until they have started production. HG has been vocal because they have nothing to lose and everything to gain with the LAM. If WB says they disagree with HG then it will hurt the movie's image. If they agree and the movie fails then they lose alot of their creditability the next time they announce plans for a future movie adaption.
VF5SS Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Robotech has all the appeal of Wing Commander. Mix some Wing Commander with Independence Day and robots and you've got a Robotech movie.
Gubaba Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Robotech has all the appeal of Wing Commander. Mix some Wing Commander with Independence Day and robots and you've got a Robotech movie. It would be even more awesome if the Veritechs could talk!!!
chrisk Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 Since this is going to be a joint venture between both companies, or something WB agreed to do with HG's approval, I'd like to hear more from someone in WB for a change. Get their perspective on the project. I sometimes forget Warner Brothers has any involvement in this project. It's been the same boring rhetoric from Tommy and Kevin in all the major cons... albeit, with lots of free giveaways!! Another thing I don't get is why some fans just can't let go of Shadow Rising. Come on. Already there are fans predicting the Robotech movie will beat Transformers in the box office even though nothing's out yet... WB has recently acquired Midway games. Could be a possible RT video game heading down the pipeline? Hey, with big robot video game franchises coming back in a big way, Midway should definitely jump in the bandwagon! God knows they need a hit. Robotech has all the appeal of Wing Commander. Mix some Wing Commander with Independence Day and robots and you've got a Robotech movie. IN 3D!!
Freiflug88 Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) It would be even more awesome if the Veritechs could talk!!! Are you kidding me? Mouthed Mecha with emo pilots never talk! They scream and go berserk after the pilots yell "Mommy" or "Deculture"! The whole point of the Veritech Units having months in the upcoming "New Genesis Robotech: Do You Remember Loneliness" movie is so that they can devour Protoculture pellets every 5 minutes rather then pluging into the Protoculture Matrix that was found on the "Adam Space Ship 1" after Second Impact. Besides no one would be able to hear them scream "All Veritechs roll out" in the vacuum of space in the first place. Only the "angel" voices of Basara Nagisa and Lynn Min Rei could possibly be heard in the vacuum of space silly. I sometimes forget Warner Brothers has any involvement in this project. It's been the same boring rhetoric from Tommy and Kevin in all the major cons... albeit, with lots of free giveaways!! Cause WB's policy must be if you don't have anything good to say about your movie then don't say anything. Edited July 26, 2009 by Freiflug88
Gubaba Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 Are you kidding me? Mouthed Mecha with emo pilots never talk! They scream and go berserk after the pilots yell "Mommy" or "Deculture"! The whole point of the Veritech Units having months in the upcoming "New Genesis Robotech: Do You Remember Loneliness" movie is so that they can devour Protoculture pellets every 5 minutes rather then pluging into the Protoculture Matrix that was found on the "Adam Space Ship 1" after Second Impact. Besides no one would be able to hear them scream "All Veritechs roll out" in the vacuum of space in the first place. Only the "angel" voices of Basara Nagisa and Lynn Min Rei could possibly be heard in the vacuum of space silly. Gosh, you're right. My ideas suck. Time to nip off and shoot myself, I guess. Or...wait... Something's coming to me... How 'bout this: ALIENS VS. PREDATOR VS. YELLOW DANCER
Freiflug88 Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 Gosh, you're right. My ideas suck. Time to nip off and shoot myself, I guess. Or...wait... Something's coming to me... How 'bout this: ALIENS VS. PREDATOR VS. YELLOW DANCER Come on your ideas didn't suck. We all make mistakes and when we just have to "fly away" and "try again!" Now ALIENS VS. PREDATOR VS. YELLOW DANCER would actually be very entertaining. Yellow Dancer would no doubt come out on top. He is armed with the power of song, a beta full of missiles, and an Invid girlfriend who has all of Ariel's power except her giant boobs: all devastating weapons in there own right. Plus Predators have a strict policy against killing females except in absolute life or death combat situations and Yellow's female disguise might work on them if he figures out how to hide the IR signature of his manhood... As for dealing with the Aliens hopefully Yellow Dancer will realize its not safe to touch there blood like it is with the Invid other wise fighting with blue balls will be the least of his worrys.
Einherjar Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) I sometimes forget Warner Brothers has any involvement in this project. It's been the same boring rhetoric from Tommy and Kevin in all the major cons... albeit, with lots of free giveaways!! Another thing I don't get is why some fans just can't let go of Shadow Rising. Come on. I heard a rumor that the more they give out free giveaways at panels, the more the value of free Robotech II: The Sentinels animation cells depreciates. Maybe they should upgrade to fanservice Shadow Chronicles cells. If that's all they have to say to get people pumped up for Robotech for another year, I'm not impressed. WB had people and maybe a panel at Comic-Con, right? And they still didn't say anything significant to support HG's position? Oh well, I guess better off next year Robotech fans, again! I honestly don't get why this is still fun for people. At this point it's more of a money trap. Edited July 26, 2009 by Einherjar
BeyondTheGrave Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 man, lots of thoughts and anger here. but when i think about it I dont really want a dub of MF, maybe Zero but not MF. the way bandai usa dubs stuff is horrible. At least with Gundam it is. Its like the sound is flat. and on top of that there's only 3 networks that would show it. It wouldn't get the air time and it'd be censored to meet fcc (idiots) guidelines. And if it did get brought over and Bandai bought the rights from HG I dont think they would give it the same treatment a Gundam series gets. Idk.... I'll write more later I need sleep.
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