Einherjar Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) BW and Tatsunoko settled that dispute in court years ago, look it up. HG's "interpretation of licensing" includes taking liberties on what they really have access to and their influence on another franchise overseas. Even if all it does is stall real progress in the situation, they want more money on their terms. EDIT: Not being rude, people have talked about the court thing A LOT. Save space, check the first page or something. Edited July 16, 2009 by Einherjar
Gubaba Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 For the third time: WHY DOES TATSUNOKO'S VIEW MATTER, UNLESS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ORIGINAL MACROSS SERIES?
Macross007 Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 For the third time: WHY DOES TATSUNOKO'S VIEW MATTER, UNLESS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ORIGINAL MACROSS SERIES? Exactly. On robotech.com, Seito has explained the legal mess regarding Macross and robotech quite many times. So I can't understand why MEMO1DOMINION can't get it with all do his respect.
Keith Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 It boils down to this. It was established in court that Big West owns Macross, its concepts, designs, derivatives, etc outright. Tatsunoko owns the international distribution & merch for the original Macross series internationally (outside of Japan). Tatsunoko tried to contest the ruling, and were shot down. Harmony Gold applied for a copyright on the name "Macross" in the U.S., and attained it. They use this to try & blockade all attempts at licensing Macross series/products (despite not being included in what Tasunoko, and by proxy they have), on that contention alone. To date, no one has wanted to spend the cash in court to tell them otherwise, which is a damn shame. My question, shouldn't our courts ackonwledge the ownership of the name/etc internationally by its rightfull owners?
RedWolf Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) Capslock is a privelidge, not a right! Dammit my eyes! My question, shouldn't our courts ackonwledge the ownership of the name/etc internationally by its rightfull owners? Comes down to Big West having the same drive as Tsuburaya Productions ,when they sued Chaiyo, in regards to HG stealing their property. Edited July 16, 2009 by RedWolf
Einherjar Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 To date, no one has wanted to spend the cash in court to tell them otherwise, which is a damn shame. My question, shouldn't our courts ackonwledge the ownership of the name/etc internationally by its rightfull owners? I think they talked about that in one of the classes I had recently. In the book I read, or what I got from it, international organizations like the World Trade Organization have problems with protecting intellectual property and enforcing copyright laws outside the country of origin. They're still working on an agreement to that stuff, and they're working really slow because all the member countries have to agree with whatever rules they come up with. That means for now it's up to the systems of the individual countries to settle it. Unfortunately, I don't think they are required to enforce it as much in the U.S. as in other countries, probably because of unbridled capitalism. So the courts don't have to do anything unless someone from Japan takes HG to court in the States.
taksraven Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 It boils down to this. It was established in court that Big West owns Macross, its concepts, designs, derivatives, etc outright. Tatsunoko owns the international distribution & merch for the original Macross series internationally (outside of Japan). Tatsunoko tried to contest the ruling, and were shot down. Harmony Gold applied for a copyright on the name "Macross" in the U.S., and attained it. They use this to try & blockade all attempts at licensing Macross series/products (despite not being included in what Tasunoko, and by proxy they have), on that contention alone. To date, no one has wanted to spend the cash in court to tell them otherwise, which is a damn shame. My question, shouldn't our courts ackonwledge the ownership of the name/etc internationally by its rightfull owners? Comments like this one that sum up pretty much the entire mess being debated here really show the pointlessness of the overall debating going on here. Unless there is a serious change in the status quo (ie, the collapse of HG), I think its pretty clear that things are not really going to change. What this thread is really about is venting against Robotech.com and its forums, Shadow Chronicles, Tommy Yune, on occasion Carl Macek and anybody and anything else that gets in the way of projects like Macross Frontier getting a proper release in the West. There, I said it. Taksraven
chrisk Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) What this thread is really about is venting against Robotech.com and its forums, Shadow Chronicles, Tommy Yune, on occasion Carl Macek and anybody and anything else that gets in the way of projects like Macross Frontier getting a proper release in the West. There, I said it. Well, this thread has been going on since 2003... http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=153 Edited July 16, 2009 by chrisk
Freiflug88 Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 For the third time: WHY DOES TATSUNOKO'S VIEW MATTER, UNLESS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ORIGINAL MACROSS SERIES? I am not MEMO, but I think I understand his point: THAT IF ANOTHER COMPANY, THAT MANNY HERE WOULD LIKE TO SEE HANDLE THE RIGHTS TO MACROSS OTHER THAN HG, WOULD HAVE TO ALSO RESPECT THE WISHES OF TATSUNOKO. NOT LETTING MACROSS OUTSIDE OF JAPAN. LIKE BIG WEST WONT LET HG "ROBOTECH/MACROSS" INTO JAPAN. According to him Tatsunoko wish is to have Macross not leave Japan. He is trying to say Tatsunko wants to deny all of Macross (except SDF of course) from leaving Japan because they were left out of their production. Its simple supply and demand: With SDF Macross practically the only Macross avaliable outside of Japan Tatsunko can demand a huge fee for their SDF Macross rights with HG, replace HG with a nicer company that allows the rest of Macross to be supplied all over the world and suddenly Tatsunko's aged SDF stuff are nearly worthless as fans rush to buy all the newer Macross thats now the Fad. On an unrelated, but still interesting note... during that discussion an interesting theory was proposed about the whole Harmony Gold/Warner Bros partnership. With the huge emphasis on the live-action movie as thought it were a make-or-break situation for Robotech, some of them have started to think that Harmony Gold may be shopping around for someone with more experience to take over creative control of Robotech, leaving them free to just sit back and collect royalty checks. The theory is that the live-action movie project is to get Robotech back into the spotlight long enough to make it a marketable property for them to sell. Makes perfect sense to me. Start off by getting the crew that produced "The Dark Knight" to put Robotech in the spotlight, then hope it becomes popular enough for the WB's animation crew that did "The Animatied Series of Batman" to renew the animated franchise as you sit back and collect the checks from the mail.
VF5SS Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 There, I said it. Taksraven Better to keep all the venting in one thread anyways. It's almost unavoidable.
Einherjar Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 According to him Tatsunoko wish is to have Macross not leave Japan. He is trying to say Tatsunko wants to deny all of Macross (except SDF of course) from leaving Japan because they were left out of their production. Its simple supply and demand: With SDF Macross practically the only Macross avaliable outside of Japan Tatsunko can demand a huge fee for their SDF Macross rights with HG, replace HG with a nicer company that allows the rest of Macross to be supplied all over the world and suddenly Tatsunko's aged SDF stuff are nearly worthless as fans rush to buy all the newer Macross thats now the Fad. Would Tatsunoko really be that vengeful over the court decision? In fact, who would be more concerned with the survival of the Robotech franchise? Tatsunoko does anime and other projects for a living and probably won't be effected as much if something goes wrong with it. They still get money through HG I guess, but with all the other business they do these days it's probably not as much by comparison. HG has more to lose with it being their only big property at the moment. They have to keep it going to stay afloat because, from what we know, business for them is not as lucrative outside the franchise. Everything that happens regarding the Macross/Robotech situation is influenced more by HG because their survival really depends on it. Depending on how much Tatsunoko gets from it, they may or may not care at this point.
Freiflug88 Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) I was just stating my theory on MEMO's point. Honestly I don't know what Tatsunko opinion on the matter, but I do know that they are competing companies and business is business. Their sales figures and income statemens aren't exactly public knowledge, but anime production isn't a the lucrative business that otaku often imagine and common sense dictates that as a business they would fight for every potential dollar. I don't think its vengance over the courtcase, not that the court case was a big inconvenience for Tatsunko. Its just that its undeniable that BW selling their newer Macross overseas would competes and hurt Tatsunko's profit from selling SDF Macross overseas to HG. So its only natural for HG and Tatsunko to cooperate in there common interest of preventing Frontier from leaving Japan and pushing Robotech/SDF Macross aside as everyone's new favorite Space Opera. Edited July 16, 2009 by Freiflug88
Einherjar Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) If that's the case, it's weird to see Tatsunoko letting HG do all the work, being the only party interested in talking about it regularly. However, with the way they've they've addressed it recently, I don't blame them for keeping their distance. At least they're obligated to give money to Tatsunoko regardless of their situation. In fact, HG has to pay a lot of people to get their stuff done: toys, RPGs, cartoons, games, trademarks, etc., even when nothing is happening. Edited July 16, 2009 by Einherjar
TheLoneWolf Posted July 16, 2009 Author Posted July 16, 2009 YOU ALSO HAVE TO REMEMBER, TATSUNOKO DOES NOT JUST ONLY WANTS SOMEONE WHO CAN WORK THE LICENSE BUT AS WELL DEFEND THEIR LICENSE OUTSIDE OF JAPAN. MEMO, are you saying that Harmony Gold must renew their Macross license with Tatsunoko (at Tatsunoko's discretion) every X number of years? Or does Harmony Gold have a permanent license with Tatsunoko?
VF5SS Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 Uh no. When you license stuff out, the people with the license do all the work while the owner collects money.
Einherjar Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) So when Palladium makes money on the Robotech RPG books a percentage of the profits go to HG while a percentage of what HG gets goes to Tatsunoko. EDIT: Wait a minute, does that mean HG doesn't own anything and they're just a middleman? Edited July 16, 2009 by Einherjar
RavenHawk Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 MEMO, why do you type all of your posts in all caps (capital letters)? You do it here and on Robotech.com too.
EXO Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 What this thread is really about is venting against Robotech.com and its forums, Shadow Chronicles, Tommy Yune, on occasion Carl Macek and anybody and anything else that gets in the way of projects like Macross Frontier getting a proper release in the West. There, I said it. Taksraven What this thread is really about is to keep all the Robotech, Shadow Chronicles, Tommy Yune, on occasion Carl Macek bitching out of the rest of the forums. Otherwise it would be locked already... but locking it would mean the spillage of said bitching to the rest of the forums.
Bri Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 I think it's more of a question why BW isn't reacting. We know they own the designs etc, but they have never commented on the situation outside of Japan afaik. Unless they give an explination anything we can do is speculate on the matter.
VF5SS Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 So when Palladium makes money on the Robotech RPG books a percentage of the profits go to HG while a percentage of what HG gets goes to Tatsunoko. EDIT: Wait a minute, does that mean HG doesn't own anything and they're just a middleman? HG owns Robotech. They get the money from Toynami and Palladium.
Einherjar Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 Ok, so HG pays Tatsunoko for the use of the animation and designs from the three series, but they can do whatever they want with it. Is that right?
Freiflug88 Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 Ok, so HG pays Tatsunoko for the use of the animation and designs from the three series, but they can do whatever they want with it. Is that right? No, designs aren't in the deal cause BW owns the designs. HG pays Tatsunonko for the SDF footage and the rights to sell SDF and DYRL Merchandise which they are allowed to do whatever they want with to turn it into Robotech. Then Toynami and Palladum agree to pay HG royalities in exchange for the rights to use Robotech in their toys and RPG books.
taksraven Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 What this thread is really about is to keep all the Robotech, Shadow Chronicles, Tommy Yune, on occasion Carl Macek bitching out of the rest of the forums. Otherwise it would be locked already... but locking it would mean the spillage of said bitching to the rest of the forums. Yeah, that too. Gotta love a Catch-22 situation.... Taksraven
MEMO1DOMINION Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 Freiflug88 THANK YOU FOR THE HELP WITH MY EXPLENATION. VERY WELL EXPLAINED. TheLoneWolf MEMO, are you saying that Harmony Gold must renew their Macross license with Tatsunoko (at Tatsunoko's discretion) every X number of years? Or does Harmony Gold have a permanent license with Tatsunoko? NOW, BACK IN ANIME EXPO 2004 (I THINK, HAVE TO CHECK MY VIDEO), THESE QUESTIONS WERE BEING ASKED BY MW FANS. AND ONE HAD TO DO WITH LICENSING. ONE ANSWER STOOD OUT.. TOMMY REPLIED (NOT IN SPECIFIC AND GOING BY MEMORY) WAS THAT THEY HAD TO RE-AQUIERE THE LICENSE FROM TATSUNOKO.. WICH THEY HAVE NOW FOR MACROSS BUT NOT BACK THEN. NOT SURE IF THE QUESTION WAS ABOUT THE CLASH OF THE BIONOIDS OR MACROSS PLUS. SOMEONE HERE HAD TO REMEMBER. WAS AT THE AX HELD IN LONG BEACH. 2003 I THINK. OR WHY WAS M+ SOLD IN THE USA THAT WAS TEH FIRST TIME I HEARD OF A HG/TATSUNOKO DEAL. OR WHAT ROLE THEY PLAY. BUT THAT TATSUNOKO WAS HAPPY WITH HOW HG WAS HANDELING THEIR LICENSE (I DONT KNOW ANY SPECIFICS) AND GLADLEY GAVE THEN A RENEWD EXTENSION. (AND DONT KNOW THE COST OR DEAL) SORRY GUYS. ALL I GET IS FROM PANELS AND DEBATES AND HERE. WHY I ALWAYS POP IN ONCE IN A WHILE, SKIMMING THE, " What this thread is really about is venting against Robotech.com and its forums, Shadow Chronicles, Tommy Yune, on occasion Carl Macek and anybody and anything else that gets in the way of projects like Macross Frontier getting a proper release in the West." AND TO THE REAL DEBATE AT HAND. AS OTHER USERS HAVE NOTICED THE SUDDEN URGENCE OF " What this thread is really about is venting against Robotech.com and its forums, Shadow Chronicles, Tommy Yune, on occasion Carl Macek and anybody and anything else that gets in the way of projects like Macross Frontier getting a proper release in the West." BY NEW MEMBERS......AS OLD AS IT IS BUT OH WELL... WHATEVER MAKES A THREAD MOVE.
Einherjar Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) WHATEVER MAKES A THREAD MOVE. Now what exactly does that mean, Memo? A criticism of how things are here? Edited July 17, 2009 by Einherjar
RedWolf Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 MEMO1DOMINION is your caps lock broken? If it isn't please write like a normal poster.
MEMO1DOMINION Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 BROKEN.. OK GUYS, LAST POST TILL WAY AFTER COMIC CON... SOME OF YOU GUYS HERE HAVE GOT TO GET TOGETHER WITH THE ORGANIZERS FROM MACROSS CON OR POST QUESTIONS IN THE MCON THREAD. TOMMY AND OR STEVE YUN HAVE BEEN GOING TO MACROSS CON BEFORE AND PRETTY SURE THEY MIGHT SHOW UP AGAIN. ASK THE CON ORGANIZERS OR MW FANS FOR A SMALL SIT DOWN WITH EITHER AND GET FANS TO ASK THESE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS. I WILL BE THERE LATE SUNDAY BUT DONT KNOW WHAT DATE TOMMY/STEVE MIGHT SHOW UP. HE USUALLY SHOWS UP IN FIRST DAY. I MYSLEF WONT KNOW TILL HE SHOWS.
Wanzerfan Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 BROKEN.. OK GUYS, LAST POST TILL WAY AFTER COMIC CON... SOME OF YOU GUYS HERE HAVE GOT TO GET TOGETHER WITH THE ORGANIZERS FROM MACROSS CON OR POST QUESTIONS IN THE MCON THREAD. TOMMY AND OR STEVE YUN HAVE BEEN GOING TO MACROSS CON BEFORE AND PRETTY SURE THEY MIGHT SHOW UP AGAIN. ASK THE CON ORGANIZERS OR MW FANS FOR A SMALL SIT DOWN WITH EITHER AND GET FANS TO ASK THESE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS. I WILL BE THERE LATE SUNDAY BUT DONT KNOW WHAT DATE TOMMY/STEVE MIGHT SHOW UP. HE USUALLY SHOWS UP IN FIRST DAY. I MYSLEF WONT KNOW TILL HE SHOWS. Jesus, man, it costs less than 30 bucks to get a decent USB keyboard. That man has had that freaking problem since we first met about 6 years ago on Robotech.com. Fix the damned problem already!!!
Gubaba Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 Comments like this one that sum up pretty much the entire mess being debated here really show the pointlessness of the overall debating going on here. Unless there is a serious change in the status quo (ie, the collapse of HG), I think its pretty clear that things are not really going to change. What this thread is really about is venting against Robotech.com and its forums, Shadow Chronicles, Tommy Yune, on occasion Carl Macek and anybody and anything else that gets in the way of projects like Macross Frontier getting a proper release in the West. There, I said it. Taksraven What I find interesting is that we have a number of members who post almost EXCLUSIVELY in the Robotech thread. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course, but there are quite a few people that I see a lot here, but never in any of the "Macross-centric" portions of the site....which strikes me as a little strange. I am not MEMO, but I think I understand his point: According to him Tatsunoko wish is to have Macross not leave Japan. He is trying to say Tatsunko wants to deny all of Macross (except SDF of course) from leaving Japan because they were left out of their production. Its simple supply and demand: With SDF Macross practically the only Macross avaliable outside of Japan Tatsunko can demand a huge fee for their SDF Macross rights with HG, replace HG with a nicer company that allows the rest of Macross to be supplied all over the world and suddenly Tatsunko's aged SDF stuff are nearly worthless as fans rush to buy all the newer Macross thats now the Fad. Makes perfect sense to me. Start off by getting the crew that produced "The Dark Knight" to put Robotech in the spotlight, then hope it becomes popular enough for the WB's animation crew that did "The Animatied Series of Batman" to renew the animated franchise as you sit back and collect the checks from the mail. Well...if that's true, it's quite dickish of both Tatsunoko and Harmony Gold.
Einherjar Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 That's business for you, there's no fairness in any of it. Jesus, man, it costs less than 30 bucks to get a decent USB keyboard. That man has had that freaking problem since we first met about 6 years ago on Robotech.com. Fix the damned problem already!!! He showed he can type without caps, so it looks like he really doesn't have a problem. He just likes typing like that for some reason.
Gubaba Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 That's business for you, there's no fairness in any of it. True, but hasn't HG been saying, "We WANT to release more Macross...but Big West won't work with us!" Either they're blocking it or they're not. And if they are, they shouldn't be playing the victim.
Xeros Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 True, but hasn't HG been saying, "We WANT to release more Macross...but Big West won't work with us!" Either they're blocking it or they're not. And if they are, they shouldn't be playing the victim. In that case HG wants to be the middleman, just sit around and count money while BW and Banday do all the work
Einherjar Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 True, but hasn't HG been saying, "We WANT to release more Macross...but Big West won't work with us!" Either they're blocking it or they're not. And if they are, they shouldn't be playing the victim. If it isn't true, then I guess it's been a public relations scheme they've been using for a very long time; trying to discredit the other party and make themselves look good in the public's eye, which is also the fan's eyes. The real situation may be really different, but they don't need to be truthful about everything that happens with them, it's fair play. Think about it, whenever they say things like that it's always during an event they have planned, like a convention panel, a venue that supports them, like a podcast, or a response on a website they either own or are comfortable communicating with, like rt.com. Because they have a certain degree of control over those areas, they can use it to their advantage in any way they want. If it is the case, it also helps when the other party doesn't respond to it.
Freiflug88 Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 Freiflug88 THANK YOU FOR THE HELP WITH MY EXPLENATION. VERY WELL EXPLAINED. Your welcome anytime. Jesus, man, it costs less than 30 bucks to get a decent USB keyboard. That man has had that freaking problem since we first met about 6 years ago on Robotech.com. Fix the damned problem already!!! I don't think he should fix the capslock, its his own unique signature. Its just wouldn't be same to see MEMO's posts in lowercase. What I find interesting is that we have a number of members who post almost EXCLUSIVELY in the Robotech thread. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course, but there are quite a few people that I see a lot here, but never in any of the "Macross-centric" portions of the site....which strikes me as a little strange. I thinks its cause we feel we know everything we really want to know about Macross and we subconsiously feel that if we continue to rant about HG blocking Macross things will magically work themselves out. Kinda like the people always ranting about the the end of world, global warming, the return of Christ, alien invasions, new world order, etc. because deep down part of them wants it to happen sooner so they can shout "I told you so." Except in our case its more like we want to say "Listen to this song!" to friends before loading an R1 release of Macross Frontier into our DVD players. True, but hasn't HG been saying, "We WANT to release more Macross...but Big West won't work with us!" Either they're blocking it or they're not. And if they are, they shouldn't be playing the victim. Of course HG wants to release more Macross with there golden HG stickers attached so they can get in on the profit. HG has set themselves up in a win-win situation where they could tell BW "release Macross on our terms and share the revenue or keep it in Japan and don't bother our Robotech franchise." Naturally BW has chosen to just keep Macross to themselves rather then deal with Harmony Gold and all three companies seem pretty content with the Status Que so far to me.
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