Robotech and HG License Debates

[Freiflug88]

Thanks for that info, much appreciated....

Taksraven

Your welcome anytime.

I also have some interesting news to report. It looks to me like FASA or whoever is running BattleTech/Mechwarrior has actually gotten the license to the macross "lost mechs" back as they have been doing more then just simply reprint old images of the "lost mechs." Just look at the Warhammer aka Tomahawk Destroid 20 in the ingame trailer for Mechwarrior 5 on youtube. According to IGN its been confirmed that the game is actually a Mechwarrior reboot and is officially titled just"Mechwarrior."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl4eI3htAuA

http://www.videogamer.com/news/mechwarrior..._confirmed.html

I say we wait to see if they really acquired the rights or if there will be a legal conflict once Big West sees the new Mech Warrior. It would poetic justice though if FASA's Mechwarrior reboot were to somehow deny HG from using the Macross designs in Robotech this time around.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Freiflug88

[VF5SS]

FASA has changed hands so many times I think they've lost track of what they do and don't own. Once Big West or Harmony Gold finds out they will issue C&D letters.

[Freiflug88]

FASA has changed hands so many times I think they've lost track of what they do and don't own. Once Big West or Harmony Gold finds out they will issue C&D letters.

I actually have an update. After further digging I discovered that FASA redesigned all their "unseen" mechs into the "reseen" mechs that were laid out in"Technical Readout: Project Phoneix" back in 2003: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Technical_Readout:_Project_Phoenix. All thanks to an old forgetten thread here in MacrossWorld of all places: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/lofiversio...php/t26711.html

That Warhammer in the new Mech Warrior is no doubt the "reseen" WarHammer that looks a lot like the original Macross Tomahawk...

Tomahawk

Redesigned Warhammer

Now if FASA has been getting away with Macross redesigns like this since 2003 then I doubt redesigns for the RLAM will have any of the legal probelms that we've been speculating.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Freiflug88

[TheLoneWolf]

That "Redesigned Warhammer" image is hosted on a fan wiki, so it's pretty much inconsequential. Do you have any evidence that it's currently being used on an official BattleTech or Mechwarrior site?

I'm not trying to sound rude, but I don't really follow BattleTech of Mechwarrior.

[VF5SS]

Man, you don't anything. That's not even the "Re-seen" Warhammer! That's from the friggen original 3025 Technical Readout book. You know the one with a Glaug on the cover? FASA was doing stuff like THIS for years until Playmates and Harmony Gold shut them down.

This is the redesigned Warhammer from the Project Phoenix book. The thing in the trailer is clearly not this design, but the original Destroid Tomahawk with a few details changed.

[TheLoneWolf]

VF5SS, can you take a screenshot from that trailer? I can't access youtube from my location.

[VF5SS]

IGN's own page has pictures.

Even with some of the details changed, that is pretty clearly a Destroid Tomahawk. What happens if they start putting Crusher Joe and Dougram designs in the game? Wouldn't Sunrise do something?

[Freiflug88]

My bad on the Warhammer design. Here are some snapshots of the trailor. You can even see in the third shot that Warhammer is posted on the cockpit screen in the 3rd image.

http://img3.imageshack.us/i/vlcsnap45039.png/

http://img3.imageshack.us/i/vlcsnap45039.png/

http://img5.imageshack.us/i/vlcsnap45870.png/

http://img3.imageshack.us/i/vlcsnap46079.png/

I am beginning to think that FASA and Microsoft must have obtained the rights to atleast the Macross inspired Lost Mechs. For one losing the most popular mechs in a legal battle isn't something FASA would just forget and there is no way Microsoft would pour millions into rebooting the Mechwarrior franchise over just continuing their platinum selling Mechassualt series unless the licensing issues were all squared away.

[TheLoneWolf]

Thanks for posting those screencaps.

You're right, that mech bears too many key similarities to the Destroid Tomahawk, it shouldn't be able to seek shelter through the Fair Use doctrine. Since this mech appears in a North American video game (ie: merchandising), it should fall within Harmony Gold's jurisidiction.

If this game has already hit the shelves, I can see Harmony Gold filing an injunction, getting the game recalled, and seeking damages. But if it hasn't been released yet, the game's publisher could simply yank that mech from the game and call it a day.

edit: It's always possible that Piranha Games licensed the Tomahawk likeness from Harmony Gold, but I doubt it. Otherwise, I'm sure this game would be all over the RT.com homepage.

Edited July 10, 2009 by TheLoneWolf

[VF5SS]

Microsoft isn't involved in the production. It's from Piranha Games.

[Einherjar]

Maybe there's a connection between the unveiling of Mechwarrior 5 and the planned return of the unseen mecha. They may have cleared the mess prior to the news of both coming out, meaning someone possibly got paid. If that's the case, then who?

EDIT: They could still get a C&D from another party who thinks they should get a piece of the pie.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Einherjar

[Seto Kaiba]

I am beginning to think that FASA and Microsoft must have obtained the rights to atleast the Macross inspired Lost Mechs. For one losing the most popular mechs in a legal battle isn't something FASA would just forget and there is no way Microsoft would pour millions into rebooting the Mechwarrior franchise over just continuing their platinum selling Mechassualt series unless the licensing issues were all squared away.

You're half-right.

FASA sold the rights to the Mechwarrior line ages ago... Wizkids had it for a while, and I think the current owner is Catalyst Game Labs, who made an announcement June 24th of this year that they had acquired the rights to the "unseen" (aka Lost Mechs) artwork from the early Battletech/MechWarrior games.

The announcement can be found here: http://catalystgamelabs.com/2009/06/24/cat...gs-back-unseen/

Edited July 10, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Freiflug88]

edit: It's always possible that Piranha Games licensed the Tomahawk likeness from Harmony Gold, but I doubt it. Otherwise, I'm sure this game would be all over the RT.com homepage.

It can't be Harmony Gold. They got merchandising rights to any products bearing the names Macross in North America, but they don't have any rights over the actual Tomahawk or any other Mecha design in Macross. The Tomahawk and all other Macross Mecha design is the Intellectual Property of Big West.

Maybe there's a connection between the unveiling of Mechwarrior 5 and the planned return of the unseen mecha. They may have cleared the mess prior to the news of both coming out, meaning someone possibly got paid. If that's the case, then who?

I was thinking the same thing. I am betting my money on Big West though cause their the undisputed owner of the mecha design rights. Considering that Piranha Games/FASA doesn't have anything to do with HG or Robotech and that MechWarrior is more concerned with land mecha then transforming its shouldn't be a big surprise that they would at least licenses the destroid mecha such as the Tomahawk that barely gets any attention anyway.

EDIT: They could still get a C&D from another party who thinks they should get a piece of the pie.

If Piranha Games/Catalyst/whoever actually have the rights to the mecha they no doubt realize that HG's bark is worst then their bite when it comes to their rights over Macross and will hopefully throw any C&D letters in the trash where they belong.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Freiflug88

[Einherjar]

This might turn out to be another bad year for HG and Robotech after all. The effects of MacF have not disappeared, with projects besides toys definitely coming, lasting at least until next year. They're also modernizing the original series in manga form which could steal some of the LAMR's thunder if they ever get to work on it. Even more so if if it eventually turns into an anime series itself. Mechwarrior surprisingly makes a return to it's roots as well as video games. Kudos to them if it turns out they have lawyer friendly derivatives of familiar mecha and the table top games re surge in popularity. Some of the old standards in sci-fi and such have been brought back relatively well. Even if one of them was powered by one man's awesomeness, both reviews and/or revenues are clear indicators.

Meanwhile, Robotech is relatively at the same position it was about a year ago, which in turn was probably the same situation they were the year before it. Heck, like clockwork they get a new writer for the LAMR and never hear anything about Shadow Rising except "we're working on it, trust us," at least once every year. A lot can happen in 6 months, but I couldn't care less with that kind of background.

EDIT: Seto, you and all the other fans with extensive knowledge of the Robotech universe should maybe post the updates you want somewhere else where people actually care about it, like Robotechx. Help make that site the new legitimate source for Robotech and stuff since the "official" site can't be bothered to do it themselves.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Einherjar

[Seto Kaiba]

This might turn out to be another bad year for HG and Robotech after all. The effects of MacF have not disappeared, with projects besides toys definitely coming, lasting at least until next year. They're also modernizing the original series in manga form which could steal some of the LAMR's thunder if they ever get to work on it. Even more so if if it eventually turns into an anime series itself.

I'd bank on it being a bad year for Harmony Gold and Robotech just based on their pitiful offerings at the panel discussions they've done. With the live-action movie still a distant POSSIBILITY on the horizon and Shadow Rising going nowhere fast and gathering essentially no fan interest at all (seriously, NOBODY, even on Robotech.com, seems to care about it), they're back to where they were in '01, coasting solely on toy sales and the pitiful re-releases of their DVDs.

EDIT: Seto, you and all the other fans with extensive knowledge of the Robotech universe should maybe post the updates you want somewhere else where people actually care about it, like Robotechx. Help make that site the new legitimate source for Robotech and stuff since the "official" site can't be bothered to do it themselves.

Well, that presents its own particular set of problems...

In its current state, Robotech's continuity is a horrible, fractal cluster-fart of contradictory stories. If you thought the confusion about whether DYRL or the TV series was the right version of Space War 1 is bad, Robotech is a billion times worse. Because Harmony Gold got into the habit of giving licenses to anyone who could spell their own name in three tries or less, half of the stuff they produced back then reads like it was written by someone whose total knowledge of Robotech is a single, vague recollection of the back of a VHS box from some five years previous.

Despite Harmony Gold's declaration that all that garbage was non-canon, the fandom has taken it upon itself to mirror the fractured, confused, often nonsensical state of the continuity. You have the purists, who hold the TV series above all else, the McKinneyists, who think the novels are the be-all end-all of Robotech, the fans of the comics, who really don't have a fancy name and think the now non-canon comics are the bee's knees, and the Universalists, who want to smash all the contradictory stories of the TV series, novels, comics, non-canon side-stories, etc. into one big messy whole and call it official. Because the fandom is so heavily divided, it's almost impossible to get them to give a poo about any one thing or any one fan site.

This, of course, makes it impossible for them to congregate at any one fan-site. The two big fansites are RobotechX and RDF Underground, but both of those are essentially ghost towns, where most of the members seem to have given up and moved on, leaving only a few devoted contributors keeping the place moving. I avoid going to RDF Underground, because I see the population of that site as a bunch of Bizarro-world beings with completely alien concepts of fun and entertainment, but I do visit RobotechX from time to time. RobotechX is the only site with any real concessions to a fan-made Robotech encyclopedia, but it seems to be done from a Universalist approach, and with the active population of the site numbering some six people, those of us who actually know the source materials and the few authoritative Robotech books well simply cannot be arsed to do anything with it. We have better, less tedious things to do, like counting the number of atoms in our monitors, calculating the growth rate of our front lawns, or reciting the complete text of War and Peace backwards in Hindi.

[taksraven]

Doesn't one of the "unseen" mechs look a lot like this.....?? (Thanks to Mr March)

Taksraven

[Einherjar]

RobotechX is the only site with any real concessions to a fan-made Robotech encyclopedia, but it seems to be done from a Universalist approach, and with the active population of the site numbering some six people, those of us who actually know the source materials and the few authoritative Robotech books well simply cannot be arsed to do anything with it.

As someone who is very informed about it, there might be some benefits to contribute to it, even if it is a small site. If you're lucky, some of the stuff might end up in the Robotech Codices or something.

I didn't know the RDF Underground forum was still active. Last I heard, Justy mentioned on the show that someone hacked it leaving it with tons of porn ads.

[Seto Kaiba]

As someone who is very informed about it, there might be some benefits to contribute to it, even if it is a small site. If you're lucky, some of the stuff might end up in the Robotech Codices or something.

Eh, I really can't imagine there being any benefits to contributing to such a small site on that scale... unless you count sitting at the RobotechX booth at conventions... which I don't (Sorry MEMO). I can't say I have any real interest in contributing to the Robotech Codex either, since I've already got one time-consuming fan project on my plate... building my Macross II reference guide.

Honestly, I'm not sure if I should show MEMO and Seifrietti a bit more respect because they're trying so hard to do something good for the fanbase with their respective fan magazines, or feel pity because they're working with the certain knowledge that they'll get screwed over by Harmony Gold just short of the finish line. I couldn't work under conditions like that.

I didn't know the RDF Underground forum was still active. Last I heard, Justy mentioned on the show that someone hacked it leaving it with tons of porn ads.

Sorry, brain's running on autopilot... I meant RDF HQ, which is, like RobotechX, a ghost town.

In fact, the only real activity there in the past few days has been this post made by manofsan (aka sanman) about how to deal with "Macross purist trolls" (or rather, anyone who doesn't agree with his belief that RT is flawless). This guy's a hoot... it's like one of those murder mysteries where the murderer gets amnesia and starts investigating the crime himself, except with trolling.

EDIT: Hmmm... it looks like Maverick_LSC's been here to see what I've been saying... I wonder if I'll be receiving a snide e-mail from him soon.

Edited July 11, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[taksraven]

In fact, the only real activity there in the past few days has been this post made by manofsan (aka sanman) about how to deal with "Macross purist trolls" (or rather, anyone who doesn't agree with his belief that RT is flawless). This guy's a hoot... it's like one of those murder mysteries where the murderer gets amnesia and starts investigating the crime himself, except with trolling.

Went there, read their crap, and decided even though they are annoying they are probably not worth arguing with. Rather talk to people here than try to convert stupid dickheads.

Taksraven

[Jasonc]

Honestly, I'm not sure if I should show MEMO and Seifrietti a bit more respect because they're trying so hard to do something good for the fanbase with their respective fan magazines, or feel pity because they're working with the certain knowledge that they'll get screwed over by Harmony Gold just short of the finish line. I couldn't work under conditions like that.

Seifrietti's fan artbook isn't going anywhere from what I know. ChrisK may have some idea of this, maybe not, but Tommy's been giving him a runaround for so long on that thing. Truth is, Tommy's not gonna let that thing through as it seems. If it's not Tommy's idea, it's vaprowareas far as a licensed release. I don't know if it's worth even contributing anything to it at this point, since it seems like it's going the way of the dinosaur.

As for Memo, I know Memo does a lot of stuff for the fanbase that's left, and it's agreed that it does take a lot of blind devotion to do something like that. To provide so much leg work for them, promoting, marketing, and all that, and not even get anything but a pat on the back, very few people would spend that kinda time doing that.

[Seto Kaiba]

Seifrietti's fan artbook isn't going anywhere from what I know. ChrisK may have some idea of this, maybe not, but Tommy's been giving him a runaround for so long on that thing. Truth is, Tommy's not gonna let that thing through as it seems. If it's not Tommy's idea, it's vaprowareas far as a licensed release. I don't know if it's worth even contributing anything to it at this point, since it seems like it's going the way of the dinosaur.

Yeah, that was pretty much my assessment of the situation.

I'd guess that Tommy knows full well that the chances of Seifrietti's Robotech Anthology being a success are pretty slim. He probably doesn't want to waste company resources on a book that most likely won't sell, and he doesn't want to say "no" and risk offending Seifrietti, who is one of the few remaining Robotech.com moderators, so he's giving him the runaround so he doesn't HAVE to say "no". I wonder if Seifrietti has realized it yet.

As for Memo, I know Memo does a lot of stuff for the fanbase that's left, and it's agreed that it does take a lot of blind devotion to do something like that. To provide so much leg work for them, promoting, marketing, and all that, and not even get anything but a pat on the back, very few people would spend that kinda time doing that.

And I am not one of them, hence my reluctance to get involved.

[Einherjar]

Doesn't one of the "unseen" mechs look a lot like this.....?? (Thanks to Mr March)

It's called the Marauder.

[Seto Kaiba]

Oh this is bad comedy...

I get threatened with a ban for essentially doing nothing at all, and after three pages of personal attacks, flame-bait, and trolling, sanman gets this:

This is only about making sure that everyone is having their full enjoyment out of using these forums for fulfilling their social entertainment.

However both the TOU and the FAQ & Guidelines clearly states that trolling and baiting are not allowed and are clear violations.

If a member continues to break the TOU repeatedly, even with warnings from the moderators and/or administraitors, it merits a ban.

And remember this is a family friendly forum even for kids under 13. There's a special permission form for children under this age to sign, see here;

GO

So just stay out of trouble everyone, that's all we ask for...

Mav...

I haven't heard back from Steve on my e-mailed complaint about Maverick yet, or on Maverick's assertion that e-mailing him to dispute his obviously BS judgment call constitutes harassment.

EDIT: Oh this is REALLY amusing... it looks like he's trying to imply that at least a few of the people supporting me are using clone accounts to appear more numerous than they are.

Suddenly, I fully appreciate why so many of the good contributors who used to go to Robotech.com have given up on the site and the fandom and gone to greener pastures.

Edited July 11, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[jenius]

Seto you are too involved with the RT.com boards. I read a thread where you bashed a moron who seemed to have no understanding of several simple concepts for three pages (Macross7). You sound like you have a lot going on, don't waste so much time on imbeciles. Sometimes I'm tempted to say things on that board just to watch you fly off the handle... in fact, I'm pretty sure I've done that to you there. You can tell I have too much time when I drop in the stories section and say "Man, Leonard was a moron." With the fights you're picking I keep getting the feeling you're a man with way too much time on his hands.

[azrael]

And we care how the mods at RT.com treat the members...Why? I'm going to make this point again. How the mods and administration of RT.com run their site is their business. Coming here to whine/yap/b*tch/etc. about how you get modded over there or threatened with a ban over there is none of our concern at MW. It ain't our problem. If they want to treat their userbase like crap, that's their business. It's not and never was our problem at MW. Yapping about here will do you absolutely no good.

[Einherjar]

Like you said, you have better things to do. For instance, the Macross II website.

EDIT: I had a well thought out thing to say, but in following azrael's post, fine, I'll stop. HG treat's their fans like poo but everyone on all sides there is still happy about it. And there's nothing new about it.

Edited July 11, 2009 by Einherjar

[Seto Kaiba]

You sound like you have a lot going on, don't waste so much time on imbeciles.

Far too much going on these days... of course, you can just turn on the news to hear all about why I'm so bloody busy. All the same, I prefer to keep a finger on the weak, thready pulse of Robotech fandom, simply for the sake of staying in the loop on HG's weakening stranglehold on Macross. If that means I have to put up with a couple idiots, so be it.

And we care how the mods at RT.com treat the members...Why?

Personally, I think the subject of how the powers that be at Harmony Gold are mistreating the Robotech fanbase is an excellent barometer for the health of the franchise. You have to remember, the Robotech franchise is essentially coasting on merchandise sales and the future potential of the live-action movie and Shadow Rising. The only thing that really changed between the last Robotech release drought and the current one is the type of merchandise that's keeping the franchise alive. In late 80's and 90's, what kept the franchise afloat was the inexpensive comic books. These days, it's $200 toys. Back then it wasn't a big deal to lose a few fans, because they were still pretty numerous, and the expected profit loss was minimal. Now, they're depending on a much smaller fanbase to buy outrageously-priced toys, and every die-hard who says "FGSFDS! I QUIT!" means less people spreading the word, and hundreds or thousands of dollars in lost revenue, and potential undercutting as fans who are sick of their poo broom their collections on eBay.

If they continue alienating their increasingly skeptical and rapidly shrinking customer base, how much longer will they be able to keep convincing the higher-ups that renewing their Macross trademarks is worth the money? For that matter, how much longer will the higher-ups at Harmony Gold be willing to keep backing Robotech when the disgruntled fans stop buying the overpriced toys and re-released DVDs? If the live-action movie and/or Shadow Rising falls through, will there be enough fans left to keep the franchise alive until they can muster themselves for their next attempt?

Edited July 11, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[chrisk]

You sound like you have a lot going on, don't waste so much time on imbeciles.

Ah... the allure of a good flame war... Who doesn't remember their first time?

You can tell I have too much time when I drop in the stories section and say "Man, Leonard was a moron."

You dare insult the DOL? Curse your Macross 7!

I haven't heard back from Steve on my e-mailed complaint about Maverick yet... it looks like he's trying to imply that at least a few of the people supporting me are using clone accounts to appear more numerous than they are.

I don't know about you guys, but I think these stories are funny. Sad, but funny. Maybe my comic isn't so far fetched after all.

Seifrietti's fan artbook isn't going anywhere from what I know. ChrisK may have some idea of this, maybe not, but Tommy's been giving him a runaround for so long on that thing.

Nah, nada. Don't know what happened to the guy. Although for sh*ts and giggles, I checked that anthology site. It's still dead. Is this thread also any indication?

It's called the Marauder.

I sorta liked that 85-ton ER-PPC armed wonder. I still can't wrap my brains on why former FASA members would consider showcasing the Warhammer in their debut trailer? It's like they're begging to Harmony Gold to file legal action. Still, it would be nice to have Mechwarrior/Battletech fans start hating Harmony Gold again for this if it ever happens.

If they continue alienating their increasingly skeptical and rapidly shrinking customer base, how much longer will they be able to keep convincing the higher-ups that renewing their Macross trademarks is worth the money?

Seto. Seto... SETO! Pipe... DOWN! I... I believe a certain someone has been reading/following this thread in his free time... Don't believe me? *wink* *wink* *nudge*

Edited July 11, 2009 by chrisk

[Seto Kaiba]

I don't know about you guys, but I think these stories are funny. Sad, but funny. Maybe my comic isn't so far fetched after all.

I think you may have been right on the money, actually.

I popped into the RT.com chatroom briefly tonight, and was told that apparently Steve and Maverick_LSC were talking about me, and other members who "need to tone down their behavior". I was apparently close to the top of the list, because of my "negativity" about the franchise, which amuses me to no end.

Nah, nada. Don't know what happened to the guy. Although for sh*ts and giggles, I checked that anthology site. It's still dead. Is this thread also any indication?

Not really, no. RobotechX is pretty much a separate entity from Seifrietti's Robotech Anthology project.

I sorta liked that 85-ton ER-PPC armed wonder. I still can't wrap my brains on why former FASA members would consider showcasing the Warhammer in their debut trailer? It's like they're begging to Harmony Gold to file legal action. Still, it would be nice to have Mechwarrior/Battletech fans start hating Harmony Gold again for this if it ever happens.

More like they're TAUNTING Harmony Gold, secure in the knowledge that they can't do a damn thing. Remember, Big West owns the IP rights, not Harmony Gold.

Seto. Seto... SETO! Pipe... DOWN! I... I believe a certain someone has been reading/following this thread in his free time... Don't believe me? *wink* *wink* *nudge*

Ah, the public relations nightmare continues... I see McKeever's working hard to make the Hulu molehill into a mountain.

Edited July 11, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Freiflug88]

More like they're TAUNTING Harmony Gold, secure in the knowledge that they can't do a damn thing. Remember, Big West owns the IP rights, not Harmony Gold.

Do you thank their is a chance that WB/HG will be able to work something out with Big West now? Until now it was pretty much assumed Big West won't license out their Macross mecha designs to anyone for any amount of money. Of course they still hate HG, but if they already licensed the designs for a MechWarrior videogame that will no doubt get a Japanese release as well who's to say that won't even consider getting even more money from licensing the movie rights for the RLAM?

The way I see it BW didn't receive a cent from HG when they copied Macross for the Robotech cartoon nearly 25 years ago, there is no way to undue the damage Robotech did to Macross in the American market, and HG now has a firm grip on the Macross trademark. Now HG wants to make a Robotech movie and BG can either deny them the Live action rights to Macross outright or make the most of the situation and sell the live action movie rights for SDF/DYRL Macross for Millions to WB.

[VF5SS]

More like they're TAUNTING Harmony Gold, secure in the knowledge that they can't do a damn thing. Remember, Big West owns the IP rights, not Harmony Gold.

FASA never had the rights either. The only people they cited was Nichimo, who just made the 1/200 scale kits that were repackaged into Battletech models. And that still doesn't account for Sunrise who owns both Dougram and Crusher Joe. I just find it very odd that Japanese companies who are so tight with their intellectual properties (ever look at the copyright page for a Super Robot Wars game?) would allow this reborn FASA to pick up and use these designs like nothing ever happened. Battletech, much like Robotech, is an international franchise that was made using someone else's designs. If Big West and Sunrise were to look into Battletech don't you think they would be upset with this?

[Freiflug88]

FASA never had the rights either. The only people they cited was Nichimo, who just made the 1/200 scale kits that were repackaged into Battletech models. And that still doesn't account for Sunrise who owns both Dougram and Crusher Joe. I just find it very odd that Japanese companies who are so tight with their intellectual properties (ever look at the copyright page for a Super Robot Wars game?) would allow this reborn FASA to pick up and use these designs like nothing ever happened. Battletech, much like Robotech, is an international franchise that was made using someone else's designs. If Big West and Sunrise were to look into Battletech don't you think they would be upset with this?

Take a another look at the copyright page for Super Robot Wars. All those copyrighted trademarks show that the SRW got permission from the IP owners by asking them politely and sending them a check. This new FASA could have easily done the same thing. Sure Battletech was formed by just stealing the design, but that doesn't mean that the Japanese are still holding a huge grudge and would turn down honest agreements from this new FASA group. Until we can actually look at the copyright page or see if BigWest and Sunrise raise hell we won't really know for sure if the designs were legally acquired. I am betting that they were though. The original Mechwarrior 5 was canceled in 2003 after Microsoft refused to publish it, maybe over copyrights? I don't know for sure, but regardless of the reason I think that Pirannha Games no doubt took this MechWarrior reboot very seriously and would pay attention to issues like copyrighted designs especially if there already showcasing an ingame footage trailers with the "unseen" Warhammer for the world to see.

http://pc.ign.com/objects/496/496466.html#aboutThisGame

Edited July 11, 2009 by Freiflug88

[Jasonc]

Hmmm, I wonder why they would judge you as one of the negative people. Aside from here, your post on rt.com have been more than decent and fair, Seto. As I can only read what's on the forum, at least it's good to know that some people on their are still fair. People like GM Murdock, and the few others I've read on their, at least they have a good take on the whole thing. It's good that Sanman's stupid thread got locked. It seems like Maverick has a hard-on for you, as well as Steve, if they're going to gossip like little old ladies about you. I'd say, if they are trying to get rid of you, just keep doing what you're doing. The fact that Steve hasn't responded proves the point that they're to chicken $h!t to really respond to the issue at hand. The fact that you like RT and Macross, and don't agree with all they've done clearly is a threat to them (as ridiculous as that is). As once a mod over there, I never would've warned you over there for the statements you made on the 80s icon thread. However, I do know that they do have a watchdog list of people they'd like to ban, and basically wait for those people to screw up and say something they shouldn't. When that happens, that's when they'll ban you, and justify that as the reason they have you on perma-ban. They did that for people who didn't necessarily start trouble on their site alone either. They'll make up stuff too, as long as it fits their purpose. That's how Chrisk was banned, Darkwater, and a few others.

So, if they have you on the hitlist, Seto, bring up your valid points when they do it, prove your point, and it'll be their loss, for having one less knowledgable person informing their camp.

[motley]

something appears to have happened in the overall battletech sphere, as its not just Smith and Tinker/Pihrana using the anime unseen mechs in the new mechwarrior. Catalyst games, who publishes the 'classic' pen and paper game has returned the unseen mechs ripped straight from anime back to the pen and paper game.

so either someone made a deal with Big West, or with Harmony Gold, or they just decided that harmony gold isn't strong enough to put up a fight. FASA presumably saw the infamous 'letter' back in '95, so its likely Catalyst and Smith & Tinker know what legal ground they're standing on. they also seem to have a much firmer financial footing than FASA did in '95, and harmony gold would seem to be floundering.

[Einherjar]

Seeing as the site is run by a business (HG) with employees regularly posting on the forums, they have the right to bend their own rules as a Public Relations move. Don't confuse it for a fair and balance place to hang out, everything there is slanted towards them in a positive light. If they see something that is unfavorable to their image, yet not breaking their TOU, they have the right to act with varying degrees to clean it up, including taking you down. At this rate, Seto WILL be banned for the reasons discussed here, but publicly they can and will attribute it to something breaking the TOU. It's even easier to do when someone with leverage has personal issues against him.

Sorry Seto, a conflict of interest may take you down soon.

EDIT: Getting back on topic, remember that Stealth VF-1S Veritech exclusive for Comic Con? It clearly has the design and Strike Pack from DYRL, but repackaged as a Robotech product. Basically, they took the Roy Focker VF-1S from their Macross 1/100 action figure line, gave it a new color scheme, and put the Robotech logo in the front of the packaging as seen here. Now, I can understand that they want to set themselves apart from all the Macross Valkyries coming out these days, but with a retool like this can it be considered part of Robotech? The design, not only the color scheme, never appeared in Robotech animation to begin with. Not only does it make it non-canon to them, not including appearances in comics, it's an official product that really has nothing to do with Robotech except for vague similarities to the Veritech. There are some people in the Robotech fandom who would be critical about things like that, but if it catches attention and makes them money, why would HG care.

Edited July 11, 2009 by Einherjar