TheLoneWolf Posted April 30, 2009 Author Posted April 30, 2009 That's pretty much it, but as far as I know, HG still claims to control ALL things Macross outside of Japan, including the animation. Why, I do not know. All information we have, including the legal proceedings in Japan, tell us they control nothing more than the original SDF Macross animation and the merchandising rights to said show and DYRL outside of Japan. That's it. I haven't heard Harmony Gold state that they control all things Macross since the Tokyo District Court ruling. Do you have any links or such? Since the TDC ruling, whenever someone asks Harmony Gold for details about Macross, they give the typical "We own Macross." lawyer-speak reply. Succinct, cryptic, and damn unhelpful. Their lawyers have trained them well. As for how HG got the DYRL merchandising rights, I seem to recall that they said it was included in their original contract with Tatsunoko and that they somehow managed to overlook it this whole time. As insipid as that explanation is, it's the best one out there since Tatsunoko did work on DYRL. Harmony Gold definitely did not get their DYRL merchandising rights from Big West. Look at any of the boxes from Toynami's DYRL toys, the toys' copyright lists Harmony Gold and Tatsunoko; nowhere is Big West mentioned.
Gubaba Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 I haven't heard Harmony Gold state that they control all things Macross since the Tokyo District Court ruling. Do you have any links or such? Since the TDC ruling, whenever someone asks Harmony Gold for details about Macross, they give the typical "We own Macross." lawyer-speak reply. Succinct, cryptic, and damn unhelpful. Their lawyers have trained them well. As for how HG got the DYRL merchandising rights, I seem to recall that they said it was included in their original contract with Tatsunoko and that they somehow managed to overlook it this whole time. As insipid as that explanation is, it's the best one out there since Tatsunoko did work on DYRL. Harmony Gold definitely did not get their DYRL merchandising rights from Big West. Look at any of the boxes from Toynami's DYRL toys, the toys' copyright lists Harmony Gold and Tatsunoko; nowhere is Big West mentioned. I'm not even sure they say they own Macross...pretty much all I've ever heard them say is "We own all of Robotech." Which is EVEN MORE succinct, cryptic, and damn unhelpful.
Seto Kaiba Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 I'm not even sure they say they own Macross...pretty much all I've ever heard them say is "We own all of Robotech." Which is EVEN MORE succinct, cryptic, and damn unhelpful. I've been told that by Kevin McKeever and several moderators over the last year or so. I don't think they actually believe they do, though. If they did, they wouldn't be going to such lengths to avoid using it.
TheLoneWolf Posted April 30, 2009 Author Posted April 30, 2009 I've been told that by Kevin McKeever and several moderators over the last year or so. I don't think they actually believe they do, though. If they did, they wouldn't be going to such lengths to avoid using it. Ahh, Kevin McKeever, our everlasting fountain of knowledge and wisdom. Can you provide any links where he told you that? I'm not going to include Kevin's quotes in my post because he's a heavily prejudiced source, but I think I could use a good laugh.
Einherjar Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 As for how HG got the DYRL merchandising rights, I seem to recall that they said it was included in their original contract with Tatsunoko and that they somehow managed to overlook it this whole time. As insipid as that explanation is, it's the best one out there since Tatsunoko did work on DYRL. Harmony Gold definitely did not get their DYRL merchandising rights from Big West. Look at any of the boxes from Toynami's DYRL toys, the toys' copyright lists Harmony Gold and Tatsunoko; nowhere is Big West mentioned. Now that I think about it, has HG ever mentioned or gave credit to Big West and others in any of their material before? From the old opening and ending credits for Robotech, they seem to have rounded up almost everyone who worked on the the original three series and collectively called them "Tatsunoko Production Co." I think they did that for The Sentinels credits also when regarding who worked on the animation (the company, not the individual people).
TheLoneWolf Posted April 30, 2009 Author Posted April 30, 2009 Now that I think about it, has HG ever mentioned or gave credit to Big West and others in any of their material before? From the old opening and ending credits for Robotech, they seem to have rounded up almost everyone who worked on the the original three series and collectively called them "Tatsunoko Production Co." I think they did that for The Sentinels credits also when regarding who worked on the animation (the company, not the individual people). No, Harmony Gold has never given credit to Big West. All of their business dealings only involved Tatsunoko Productions, which is why they only credit Tatsunoko.
Einherjar Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 RobotechFanPlus has landed on rt.com. Is it still a joke? http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...genumber=2#post
Freiflug88 Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) As for how HG got the DYRL merchandising rights, I seem to recall that they said it was included in their original contract with Tatsunoko and that they somehow managed to overlook it this whole time. As insipid as that explanation is, it's the best one out there since Tatsunoko did work on DYRL. Harmony Gold definitely did not get their DYRL merchandising rights from Big West. Look at any of the boxes from Toynami's DYRL toys, the toys' copyright lists Harmony Gold and Tatsunoko; nowhere is Big West mentioned. It just occurred to me JetFire was actually a repainted Super Valk from Bandai's Macross DYRL toyline!!!!! Jetfire:http://www.toybin.org/cache/1985/Autobots/Air%20Guardian/JetFire/480_robot.jpg. Max DYRL Super Valk: http://dennis-toys.blogspot.com/2009/04/fr...of-box-toy.html With no actual DYRL footage to show fans I am thinking now HG just settled with Hasbro selling the DYRL toy as Jetfire and forgot all about their DYRL merchandising buried somewhere in there contract as the new management came in the Robotech department. RobotechFanPlus has landed on rt.com. Is it still a joke? http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...genumber=2#post After reading RobotechFanPlus's comments I just get this gut feeling he is Doug Bendo. Edited April 30, 2009 by Freiflug88
areaseven Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 It just occurred to me JetFire was actually a repainted Super Valk from Bandai's Macross DYRL toyline! Jetfire:http://www.toybin.org/cache/1985/Autobots/Air%20Guardian/JetFire/480_robot.jpg. Max DYRL Super Valk: http://dennis-toys.blogspot.com/2009/04/fr...of-box-toy.html With no actual DYRL footage to show fans I am thinking now HG just settled with Hasbro selling the DYRL toy as Jetfire and forgot all about their DYRL merchandising buried somewhere in their contract as the new management came in the Robotech department. Actually, Jetfire was first released before Bandai acquired the 1/55 Valk molds from Matsushiro Toys (shortly after Takatoku went under), so associating Jetfire with DYRL is irrelevant.
Gubaba Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 RobotechFanPlus has landed on rt.com. Is it still a joke? http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...genumber=2#post It's either a joke or he's got Fun Dip instead of brains.
Gubaba Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 After reading RobotechFanPlus's comments I just get this gut feeling he is Doug Bendo. Can't be. RobotechFanPlus knows how to spell, and how to use punctuation.
Freiflug88 Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 Actually, Jetfire was first released before Bandai acquired the 1/55 Valk molds from Matsushiro Toys (shortly after Takatoku went under), so associating Jetfire with DYRL is irrelevant. See this for yourself: http://dennis-toys.blogspot.com/2009/03/ba...-or-hasbro.html If you check the flip side backing of G1 Jetfire, you will mostly likely see a 'Bandai' wording unless the Jetfire is a rare Matsushiro variant featuring the Macross UN Spacy logo on the left wing. The explanation to the 'Bandai' wording probably came after Bandai took over the rights to produce the valkyrie toys after Takatoku, the inventor company went busted. Somehow in the late eighties, Hasbro managed to market Bandai's valkyrie in U.S and packaged it as Jetfire from Transformers. It might be the reason why G1 Jetfire is only available in U.S Hasbro verison and never released by Japanese Takara toy which is rival company of Bandai. It should also be the fundamental behind Macross been packaged as Robotech with related toys selling under the license of 'Harmony Gold'.
areaseven Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 This is hilarious... "Who thinks the originals are inferior to Robotech?"
Einherjar Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) After reading RobotechFanPlus's comments I just get this gut feeling he is Doug Bendo. I thought about that too, but I doubt. This guy can actually spell words correctly and his youtube account labels him coming from Turkey. Unless he's gotten smarter since his awol life it might not be him. Besides, he REALLY hates the current Robotech crew to ever troll them like that. EDIT: Actually, maybe it is a joke, but someone else. Edited April 30, 2009 by Einherjar
Freiflug88 Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) Actually, Jetfire was first released before Bandai acquired the 1/55 Valk molds from Matsushiro Toys (shortly after Takatoku went under), so associating Jetfire with DYRL is irrelevant. Really? I am talking about the fact that Jetfire was made from a DYRL toyline mold. So what if Jetfire was also made by Matsushiro it doesn't change the fact that a DYRL toy was marketed in the US. http://dennis-toys.blogspot.com/2009/03/ba...-or-hasbro.html If you check the flip side backing of G1 Jetfire, you will mostly likely see a 'Bandai' wording unless the Jetfire is a rare Matsushiro variant featuring the Macross UN Spacy logo on the left wing. The explanation to the 'Bandai' wording probably came after Bandai took over the rights to produce the valkyrie toys after Takatoku, the inventor company went busted. Somehow in the late eighties, Hasbro managed to market Bandai's valkyrie in U.S and packaged it as Jetfire from Transformers. It might be the reason why G1 Jetfire is only available in U.S Hasbro verison and never released by Japanese Takara toy which is rival company of Bandai. It should also be the fundamental behind Macross been packaged as Robotech with related toys selling under the license of 'Harmony Gold'. Edit: Can't be. RobotechFanPlus knows how to spell, and how to use punctuation. The only one i watched the original was Macross. Macross music is outdated, minmei songs sucks, i mean just read the lyrics: "my boyfriend is a pilot, he spins in the air" something like that, just a rtard to not realize that macross music sucks, i even read that the original singer refuses to sing macross songs because their are all bad. Also their names are too unrealistic, why even lisa is japanese decendant??? She has blue eyes!!! WTF!!! Rick Hunter too, he has blue eyes. Thus he isn't japanese!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whoever did this mistake, he must thank god Harmony Gold fixed at Robotech!!! http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...&forumid=24 Yeah, fantastic punctuation and spelling no way it could be Bendo. I already know that whoever Robotechfanplus is he no doubt lied about watching only the orginial. His Youtube vid descriptions get into alot of detail about the Macross sequels as you can see for yourself. I also doubt that he is really the 41 year old from Turkey that he claims to be. ALL MACROSS BELLONGS TO ROBOTECH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BOND77 and LoungeFly87, no need to worry, Harmony Gold would never do something as stupid as Macross 7. Anyway how i would fit in robotech: There is a parallel dimension, that cross at some points with Robotech dimension, where Max Sterling also exists, but instead of the cool vertitechs and fleets they developed lame tecnologies. There they have a band with a gay vocalist, a loli bassist and a lesbian drummer. The lamest thing ever. EVERYTHING IN THIS DIMENSION IS LAME AND STUPID!!! Yeah you got, this parallel dimension is none than Macrosshit dimension!!! and In their world, after they arrive at the varja planet, there were a lot of small creatures roaming around there, by using their lastest tecnology they found a way to capture those creatures. Their name is pokemon!!! Now we see Ash, son of Sherly Nome with Alto Saotome, his dream is to become the best pokemon catcher!!!! Edited April 30, 2009 by Freiflug88
Einherjar Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 Well, compare his writing to the real class act. The only thing that's similar is probably the borderline prejudice this new guy shows. http://beta.robotech.com/community/forum/r...&forumid=12 http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...mp;pagenumber=2 http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...mp;pagenumber=1 (Yes, longbow385 is doug, notice the spelling and incoherent thoughts)
Sir Galahad® Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 Well the reason Mari Iijima didn't want to sing Macross songs that time was because she doesn't want to be identified with Lynn Minmay... these fans are of an uneducated lot... jeez...
Gubaba Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) Well the reason Mari Iijima didn't want to sing Macross songs that time was because she doesn't want to be identified with Lynn Minmay... these fans are of an uneducated lot... jeez... Enh. I still think it's a joke. No one posts a comment on youtube about the Princess Mononoke soundtrack, saying "Robotech pwns this" unless they're trying to be funny. Or trollish. But either way, it's an act. Has to be. EDIT: Just checked his youtube page...he's added Cowboy Bebop and Space Gandam V to his list of Robotech spin-offs. NO ONE who loves Robotech would want to have Space Gandam V associated with it. He's just a troll. Edited April 30, 2009 by Gubaba
areaseven Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 NO ONE who loves Robotech would want to have Space Gandam V associated with it. He's just a troll. As bad as Space Gandam V looks, it's still 100x better than Sentinels.
taksraven Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 It's either a joke or he's got Fun Dip instead of brains. A little from column A, a little from column B. Taksraven
TheLoneWolf Posted April 30, 2009 Author Posted April 30, 2009 Really? I am talking about the fact that Jetfire was made from a DYRL toyline mold. So what if Jetfire was also made by Matsushiro it doesn't change the fact that a DYRL toy was marketed in the US. http://dennis-toys.blogspot.com/2009/03/ba...-or-hasbro.html You shouldn't believe everything you read on the Internet, there's a lot of misinformation out there, and that blog is no exception. That blog actually has it backwards. Some of the DYRL toy molds came from Jetfire, not vice versa. When Takatoku went under, Matsushiro obtained the 1/55 molds and released Hikaru's 1/55 VF-1J in Europe. At that time, Hasbro was looking for more transforming toys to include in its Transformers line, so they contracted with Matsushiro to manufacture Jetfire as a Transformer. However, the 1/55 molds had to be modified in order to comply with US safety laws, with the most notable change being the blunted nosecone. Shortly thereafter, Matshushiro went under and Bandai acquired the 1/55 molds along with Matsushiro's existing contract with Hasbro. Bandai honored Matsushiro's contract with Hasbro and continued to manufacture Jetfire toys. Meanwhile, in Japan, Bandai began to manufacture DYRL toys to coincide with the DYRL release. Bandai's first DYRL toy, Hikaru's 1/55 VF-1S Strike Valkyrie, retained the original sharp nosecone. But for reasons unknown, Bandai's subsequent DYRL toys (1/55 Super Ostrich and 1/55 Elintseeker) incorporated Jetfire's blunted nosecone. So as you can see, the latter DYRL toys were made from Jetfire's molds. Not the other way around. I only wish that I had some official sources to back up this story.
Duke Togo Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 I can't believe I actually followed those links to the Rt forums. I think my IQ dropped 50 points after reading some of that.
Totoro242 Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 You shouldn't believe everything you read on the Internet, there's a lot of misinformation out there, and that blog is no exception. Word. So as you can see, the latter DYRL toys were made from Jetfire's molds. Not the other way around. I only wish that I had some official sources to back up this story. Just recently, it was finally documented in Figure Oh! magazine, here's a review I am stealing that Matt Alt did on ToyBoxDX.com: http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?4,192680 From an interview with Tetsu Watanabe, a Watanabe Giken employee who was project lead on the 1/55 Valkyrie for Takatoku toys: "After Takatoku's bankruptcy, the molds for the 1/55 Valkyries were placed under the stewardship of the contracted manufacturer, Matsushiro. Matsushiro began manufacturing 1/55 Valkryies for the export market, but gradually slid into financial hardship themselves. Matsushiro sought to be acquired by a major toy company, and this became the connection between Bandai and the Macross series." The article goes on to interview a Mr. Takayuki Morishima, who was at Popy at the time Bandai came to control the Macross stuff via the Matsushiro acquisition. At the time, the Macross stuff was only really selling abroad, via Matsushiro's exports. When Popy got ahold of the assets, however, they decided to revitalize the Macross series for the domestic market. Morishima says of the first release (the "Hi-Metal" Strike Valkyrie): "Takatoku had already created blueprints and even a partial prototype of the Strike Valkyrie. We at Bandai used those as references to make the molds. At first there was talk of simply reissuing the Takatoku molds as-is, but as the movie was just about to open, it was decided to properly revamp the design. It was already so well designed I didn't want to add anything to the basic toy itself, but one area I did insist on was adding missiles to the wings... Another thing I did was to come up with a new canopy cover design. Even the Takatoku Super Valkyrie left the canopy as-is in Battroid mode, and I wanted to do something about that. That's how I came up with the idea of an insert that would be slid under the chest from below. We finished it just as the Strike went on sale and offered it in a giveaway campaign. It proved so popular that we actually included it with the VF-1A. As a side note, when we started discussing putting out the Hi-Metal version of the toy, it turned out that Matsushiro had a lot of leftover stock on hand. So some of the Strike Valkyries were shipped with Bandai stickers covering the Takatoku inscriptions. [That's really unthinkable now.] I break into a cold sweat just thinking about it."
Ginrai Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) That blog actually has it backwards. Some of the DYRL toy molds came from Jetfire, not vice versa. When Takatoku went under, Matsushiro obtained the 1/55 molds and released Hikaru's 1/55 VF-1J in Europe. Matsushiro didn't OBTAIN the molds, they MADE them. Matsushiro was the company Takatoku contracted with to do the physical molding and that sort of thing. They already HAD them. Note also that Matsushiro are the ones who filed the US Patents for the 1/55 Valkyrie toy. Also I don't think they went under (at least not then) as there are all kinds of patents for like remote controlled cars and the like from Matsushiro. More likely, since Matsushiro created the molds and were manufacturing the toys already (and presumably doing the packaging too since the Euro Space Fighter packaging is exactly the same materials as the Takatoku packaging but with different words and such), they just ran off a bunch of gray market ones and didn't get Big West's approval and then Hasbro saw them at a toy show and went, "Hey make us some of these." Then later when Bandai got the rights from Big West or Tatsunoko or whomever (I'm thinking Tatsunoko since American Jetfire boxes have the Tatsunoko seahorse logo sticker) they just went, "Hey Matsushiro, make some more of these." We know from Matt Alt talking to people at Bandai pretty much the entire Takatoku team that designed the Macross toys in the first place ended up working at Bandai for years, so they all did the DYRL stuff. Edit: Oh and it took me so long to type this up that someone actually sent the same basic information I was typing first. Oops. Well, anyway, you get the idea! Edited April 30, 2009 by Ginrai
TheLoneWolf Posted April 30, 2009 Author Posted April 30, 2009 Totoro, thanks for that link, finally some official word! Though I think Matt may have made one mistake it in. He says that a company called Watanabe Giken created the VF-1J prototype in that picture. But according to Vifam 7, Tamashii's article (other one here) on the 1/55 says that Kawamori created that particular prototype model (and that it's actually painted wood). So now the question is: who's right? Matsushiro didn't OBTAIN the molds, they MADE them. Yes, I know that Matsushiro made the original molds. I chose those words so that readers wouldn't get confused between the creator of the 1/55 molds and the manufacter of 1/55 toys. It's ok, you can relax now.
Totoro242 Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 Totoro, thanks for that link, finally some official word! Though I think Matt may have made one mistake it in. He says that a company called Watanabe Giken created the VF-1J prototype in that picture. But according to Vifam 7, Tamashii's article (other one here) on the 1/55 says that Kawamori created that particular prototype model (and that it's actually painted wood). So now the question is: who's right? Maybe there are two different prototypes here?
Freiflug88 Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 So as you can see, the latter DYRL toys were made from Jetfire's molds. Not the other way around. I only wish that I had some official sources to back up this story. So my Jetfire as DYRL merchandise theory was wrong afterall. Ah well at least now I can take my frustrations out on RobotechFanPlus . Haven't done anything with my MacrossFanPlus account yet he has already posted that I am a faq with no creativity.
TheLoneWolf Posted April 30, 2009 Author Posted April 30, 2009 Analysis isn't the point. I think TheLoneWolf was just going for the undisputed facts, and, as he said, he can add to the post with more at any time. That's right, I'm only trying to collect all the facts and leave out as much bias and opinion as possible. I've included a little bit of analysis, but it's only to help newcomers unfamiliar with legalese understand what's going on. And even then, I'm trying my hardest to keep that analysis as impartial as possible. I want people to be able to read the facts and then formulate their own opinions, even if I don't agree with some of those opinions. Totoro242, yeah it might just be two different prototypes out there. Or maybe something just got lost in one (or both) of the translations.
Einherjar Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 Gosh, this troll/fan has been around bothering a lot of people for a while now. I'm not complaining. It's just another guy embarrassing the fandom, nothing new from that. http://www.google.com/search?q=robotechfan...lient=firefox-a
Seto Kaiba Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 (edited) Gosh, this troll/fan has been around bothering a lot of people for a while now. I'm not complaining. It's just another guy embarrassing the fandom, nothing new from that. http://www.google.com/search?q=robotechfan...lient=firefox-a Is it just me, or has anyone else gotten the sneaking suspicion that RobotechFanPlus is Kevin McKeever? Somewhere I have some old news prints about the Tatsunoko vs Big West/Studio Nue thing... I'll have to dig 'em out later. Edited May 1, 2009 by Seto Kaiba
Freiflug88 Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 Is it just me, or has anyone else gotten the sneaking suspicion that RobotechFanPlus is Kevin McKeever? dry.gif Somewhere I have some old news prints about the Tatsunoko vs Big West/Studio Nue thing... I'll have to dig 'em out later. I would think the guys at HG would have lives or possibly be working on Robotech Shadow Rising rather then pulling such an idiotic stunt, shocking concepts I know. Then again anything I have seen things with my own eyes that are much harder to believe.
Sir Galahad® Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 I would think the guys at HG would have lives or possibly be working on Robotech Shadow Rising rather then pulling such an idiotic stunt, shocking concepts I know. Then again anything I have seen things with my own eyes that are much harder to believe. Maybe they have nothing to work on to resort to such stunts
areaseven Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 Here's Toynami at their finest: Robotech MPC VFA-6ZX Alpha Shadow Fighter Maia Custom
Macross007 Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 Is it just me, or has anyone else gotten the sneaking suspicion that RobotechFanPlus is Kevin McKeever? Why he would do such a thing ?
Macross007 Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 Here's Toynami at their finest: Robotech MPC VFA-6ZX Alpha Shadow Fighter Maia Custom Man ... Feeling bad for Robotech fans now.
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