Robotech and HG License Debates

[Gubaba]

For die-had fans, isn't that the standard response to any new Macross material released specifically because it's not labeled Robotech? It might also be a personal bias, because he's totally fine with everything not Macross, even new Gundam and new Speed Racer (film included). Anyway, he might have been screwing around with Doug just for kicks too.

My experience has been that a lot of RT fans like Frontier. Mr. March can back me up on this, I think.

But of course, most RT fans are SANE. The ones who aren't are the ones who give the rest of them a bad rap.

Who knows? I remember MEMO mentioned wanting to do something along those lines before. If HG continues to keep quiet about Robotech, a new or enthusiastic fan is bound to get the "brilliant" idea to retcon the material into Robotech anyway for completeness sake.

Yeah, MEMO showed up here a couple of months ago, saying, "WE WANT TO DO A ROBOTECH CODEX STARTING WITH THE VF-1D. WHERE CAN WE FIND OFFICIAL INFORMATION ABOUT IT?" or something like that.

We (rather gently) dissuaded him from using "Macross-only" sources, and he seemed to accept that.

See? They're not ALL crazy.

[VF5SS]

I don't think we'll have to worry about Chronicle translations being pilfered to bolster RT, they seem content with what they already have, and what they can steal from RobotechResearch and SteelFalcon where the VF-1 is concerned.

Oh man. They must love taking stuff from a website full of made-up fan BS and another website full of made-up fan BS that hasn't been updated in eleven years.

[Beltane70]

I wouldn't exactly call MEMO sane considering that he types in all caps.

Most of Treiz's gripes about Frontier is that he thinks the show relies on too many cliches and homages, despite the fact that most of the homages have different outcomes from what originally happen.

[Einherjar]

Most of Treiz's gripes about Frontier is that he thinks the show relies on too many cliches and homages, despite the fact that most of the homages have different outcomes from what originally happen.

I remember Shadow Chronicles relying on similar cliches and homages, but they had to work around certain issues and with the rest of it not completed yet it wasn't executed as well. Plus, Frontier actually had the privilege to do those homages because it was an anniversary show and it all originated from Macross' roots anyway.

[Freiflug88]

dry.gif I'd take umbridge at that remark about me being a know-it-all jackass who likes to toy with Robotech fans... I most certainly do not like toying with Robotech fans! I prefer to regard them from a distance... like watching monkeys fling poo from behind the plexiglass windows at the zoo.

You have become that which you have fought against.

That actually causes problems.

Most of that scrap isn't in a stable orbit. And we know that Zentradi ships can survive re-entry, since their wreckage has been shown on Earth.

So the Earth was razed by ray guns and afterwards gets a steady pelting of large meteors from all directions.

An early part of the recovery project should've been dedicated to stabilizing or safely disposing of debris.

(Though most of those 4 million ships didn't get wrecked. They folded out with the destruction of the flag ship and presumably connected with other fleets.)

How does Zentradi junk going meteor on a dead empty planet cause any bigger probelm then beating a dead horse? A whole ship in decent condition might be to survive re-entry, but the one blasted to bits would get vaporized in free fall.

To me it only looked like Kyron's fleet folded out. Those countless ships surrouding the flagshp were vaporized in the massive blast caused by the Omni directional barrier overload. Still after a battle with 4 million plus ships odds are really good there would be plenty of usable parts left over.

[Seto Kaiba]

You have become that which you have fought against.

Nah, far from it.

All I've become is one of several volunteer zookeepers in the primate house.

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

Nah, far from it.

All I've become is one of several volunteer zookeepers in the primate house.

That must be a very time consuming job.

[Seto Kaiba]

That must be a very time consuming job.

Not at all... the time-consuming job is trying to keep an IT consulting business afloat while the local economy spirals toward oblivion.

There's so little activity on Robotech.com these days that it rarely takes more than five or ten minutes effort to break up all but the worst of the fanwankery threads. Occasionally there's someone who asks an intelligent question, or someone who starts an intelligent debate, and on those rare days it doesn't feel much like a job at all.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Protoculture]

Nah, most of the ones who enjoyed screwing with me seem to have all gotten the banhammer at one time or another and haven't been back to vex me since. The only one left is Treiz, who really isn't specifically targeting me, he's just using the message boards as an outlet for his stupidity. Oddly enough, there are quite a few members there who respect and value my opinion... made even stranger by the fact that many of them even LIKE me, despite my best efforts to offend them.

Yeah, Treiz a klutz! But then again, the reason why I kept coming back to RT.com (as a lurker, rarely posted, if any) is simply to see Seto & Blackrose whacked the RT masses outta their ignorant brains ...

Damn, that was fun ... ( I wonder why I keep getting cynical these days) ...

[Freiflug88]

All I've become is one of several volunteer zookeepers in the primate house. rolleyes.gif

Not at all... the time-consuming job is trying to keep an IT consulting business afloat while the local economy spirals toward oblivion.

So is cleaning thrown monkey poo out of servers

[Jasonc]

Haven't seen any planet-buster weapons aside from the Protodeviln... but it's kind of amusing to think of, given the Robotech novels claimed the zentradi were originally created as miners. I don't think that's QUITE what they had in mind, but I'm never gonna be able to shake the image now.

Hmmm, the Zentraedi Seven Dwarfs. I can see Breetai with a cone hat, big loafers, a red work shirt, fat belt, and some tights whistling off to the mines.

When it comes to RT fans, I'd have to vouch for many of them. Many are very hospitable, helpful, nice, and fun to hang out with. It's generally agreeable that there are the few who give the rest a bad name. Let alone the fact that Kevin gives Robotech a bad name on his own, some fans like Treiz basically utter and repeat that same bad name in his words and actions. There's been a shift in the mods as well, from mostly decent mods who were more easy going, to a more HG nazi police squad. Most of the mods I knew there when I was there are either not there anymore, or at least no longer post, so that's why the sense of hostility from staff and mods.

As far as the VF-1 is concerned, what has the rt world done differently with specs on it compared to the Macross canon? I'm curious, cause I simply never researched this in depth.

[Einherjar]

As far as the VF-1 is concerned, what has the rt world done differently with specs on it compared to the Macross canon? I'm curious, cause I simply never researched this in depth.

I have no idea what the official story is either, but there are complications with it or something. They are either fueled by fusion reactors or Protoculture fuel. And then there's the extra stuff from the novels and RPG books.

[Freiflug88]

Hmmm, the Zentraedi Seven Dwarfs. I can see Breetai with a cone hat, big loafers, a red work shirt, fat belt, and some tights whistling off to the mines.

Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs came to my mind as well when I thought of Zentradi miners. Just think of the hilirous parody they could make with "Minmay and the Seven Giants" complete with that Old Sour Puss as the wicked witch.

I have no idea what the official story is either, but there are complications with it or something. They are either fueled by fusion reactors or Protoculture fuel. And then there's the extra stuff from the novels and RPG books.

I remember Roy stating in Robotech episode 5 that the VFs nuclear fusion engines could run on any fuel. The protoculutre fuel though is also a tangled mess in the Robotech cannon. On one hand humanity is supposedly oblivious to the existence of the Protoculture matrix until Dana Sterling and the 15th squad find it blossoming in the SDF-1 ruins. On the other hand:

1. In Robotech the Sentienels, a new Protoculture Matrix is made for the SDF-3 from protoculture of the SDF-1.

2. Bodolza orders his fleet of 4 million Zentradi battle space SUVs to destroy the Earth and the universe's last gas tank of Protoculture, the SDF-1.

3. Kyron's troops don't get drunk they get high off of protocutlture and later steal a protoculture reactor to fuel there ship that is so low on Protoculture that the lights barely work.

4. If humanity did make due with Fusion technology before using Protocultre fuel cells in the New Generation, then losing the Protoculutre Matrix on earth wouldn't be an issue just pull out the old fusion engines out of storage or build new ones.

Edited May 30, 2009 by Freiflug88

[Wanzerfan]

There was no Megazone 23 footage used in MOSPEADA or in Robotech: New Gen.

Read my lips. In 1984, Carl Macek decided to test air Robotech in Houston a full year before he released it nationaly. In that version of "Symphony of Light" he used Megazone 23 footage to tell the story of how Corg was killed by Scott Bernard (he had the blood on Corg's left arm changed from red to green). That version must've failed the test, so he decided to drop the Megazone 23 footage used.

4. If humanity did make due with Fusion technology before using Protocultre fuel cells in the New Generation, then losing the Protoculutre Matrix on earth wouldn't be an issue just pull out the old fusion engines out of storage or build new ones.

In book 10 Invid Invasion it's explained that the protoculture feul cells used were of Invid manufacutre.

Edited May 30, 2009 by Wanzerfan

[taksraven]

Hmmm, the Zentraedi Seven Dwarfs. I can see Breetai with a cone hat, big loafers, a red work shirt, fat belt, and some tights whistling off to the mines.

When it comes to RT fans, I'd have to vouch for many of them. Many are very hospitable, helpful, nice, and fun to hang out with. It's generally agreeable that there are the few who give the rest a bad name. Let alone the fact that Kevin gives Robotech a bad name on his own, some fans like Treiz basically utter and repeat that same bad name in his words and actions. There's been a shift in the mods as well, from mostly decent mods who were more easy going, to a more HG nazi police squad. Most of the mods I knew there when I was there are either not there anymore, or at least no longer post, so that's why the sense of hostility from staff and mods.

As far as the VF-1 is concerned, what has the rt world done differently with specs on it compared to the Macross canon? I'm curious, cause I simply never researched this in depth.

This is how I think that Zentraedi miners would sound....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfHlA3fmJG0

Taksraven

[Gubaba]

Read my lips. In 1984, Carl Macek decided to test air Robotech in Houston a full year before he released it nationaly. In that version of "Symphony of Light" he used Megazone 23 footage to tell the story of how Corg was killed by Scott Bernard (he had the blood on Corg's left arm changed from red to green). That version must've failed the test, so he decided to drop the Megazone 23 footage used.

In book 10 Invid Invasion it's explained that the protoculture feul cells used were of Invid manufacutre.

AMAZING! That's a real find!

Megazone wasn't released until March 1985 and yet somehow Macek got ahold of it in 1984?

No wonder Robotech is so popular...its creator is a magic man!

Please. If you're going to spout BS, don't get all "read my lips" on us for not believing it.

[RavenHawk]

Read my lips. In 1984, Carl Macek decided to test air Robotech in Houston a full year before he released it nationaly. In that version of "Symphony of Light" he used Megazone 23 footage to tell the story of how Corg was killed by Scott Bernard (he had the blood on Corg's left arm changed from red to green). That version must've failed the test, so he decided to drop the Megazone 23 footage used.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, so hope it doesn't come across as such.

Despite how adamant you are about this, it simply is not the case. Megazone came out after MOSPEADA. There was no Megazone footage used in MOSPEADA. New Gen of Robotech edited out a few scenes for content from MOSPEADA, it did not add any even more violent footage in.

If you still disagree, find proof.

[Einherjar]

4. If humanity did make due with Fusion technology before using Protocultre fuel cells in the New Generation, then losing the Protoculutre Matrix on earth wouldn't be an issue just pull out the old fusion engines out of storage or build new ones.

That would've made a good allegory to the oil crisis in real life if they followed through with it better in Shadow Chronicles. Protoculture was a rare fuel source in Robotech, right? Yet somehow from secondary material they were able to spread humanity through space, maintain an armada and/or at least send a task force to fight other aliens in another part of the galaxy with the only producer they had.

[JB0]

How does Zentradi junk going meteor on a dead empty planet cause any bigger probelm then beating a dead horse? A whole ship in decent condition might be to survive re-entry, but the one blasted to bits would get vaporized in free fall.

It makes the cleanup harder, whether it impacts like a meteor(as we know some did), or vaporizes in the air. It just causes different problems(vaporized material doesn't disappear, it remains in the air. And no one wants to breathe space metal alloy).

Large chunks of exterior armor probably wouldn't burn away totally.

If you're still being pelted with stuff WHILE you're trying to rebuild, it undoes all your work.

To me it only looked like Kyron's fleet folded out. Those countless ships surrouding the flagshp were vaporized in the massive blast caused by the Omni directional barrier overload.

The zentradi were bombarding the entire Earth. That means the planet was surrounded.

For any sort of explosion to take out the majority of the fleet, it have to go THROUGH the Earth, shattering it like a tiny blue marble.

http://macross.anime.net/mecha/zentradi/index.html

According to the Compendium, about 3 million ships survived.

...

And the Grand Cannon accounted for almost 800k in one shot. DAMN, but that's a big gun.

Whether or not Kamjin's fleet counts is kind of a moot point, since his fleet is probably under a thousand ships(Britia's is around 1200), but since his people were "contaminated by the protoculture" just like Britai's and Lap'lamiz' were, they'd be targets for termination, and probably don't count..

The Grand Cannon probably accelerated everything it hit to escape velocity. Though the size THOSE leftovers were, they could probably be taken care of by good ol' solar wind.

Leaves us about a million ships worth of debris. Which is still a pretty impressive trash heap, really.

The barrier's also not a magical weapon of kill everything.

They actually take time out in Burst Point to describe what's going on. It absorbs the energy it can't deflect, and holds it. And when it overloads, it releases it all at once. It doesn't make a small explosion into a big one, though it COULD make a lot of small explosions into a single big one.

Still after a battle with 4 million plus ships odds are really good there would be plenty of usable parts left over.

Yup. Provided you can collect them before their orbit decays. Could be hard if you're trying to deal with the situation before they can make MORE problems for your battered and bruised planet.

L'see... they showed one largely-complete zentradi ship, one quel-quallie fighter with a pilot that survived long enough to climb out of his fighter(Minmay doll in hand, so he was one of our heroes), and a VF-1 that I'm just going to assume was from the surface forces.

You can probably scrounge parts from several of the crashed ships, if all zentradi hardware is that durable.

[Freiflug88]

In that version of "Symphony of Light" he used Megazone 23 footage to tell the story of how Corg was killed by Scott Bernard (he had the blood on Corg's left arm changed from red to green).

Corg and all the Inbit HAD green blood in Mosepedia, in Megazone 23 everyone bleed red blood. Besides if the blood color was changed the green blood would have been painted over red just as the second moon in Southern Cross was painstakingly airbrushed out for several shots. For the final the green blood would have stayed to get past censorship. Blood was only censored if it was red, so several sci-fi movies and series would use Green blood when a monster or alien would bleed to get around censorship.

In book 10 Invid Invasion it's explained that the protoculture feul cells used were of Invid manufacutre.

I was going by the anime. Having the Protoculture fuels cells manufactured by Invid would only introduce more contractions such as the RDF need to enslave Invid for protoculture production instead of simply finding the SDF-3. Regardless, of where humanity got protoculture from, if the Macross Saga ships were established to be Fusion powered then lack Protoculture shouldn't be an issue. Shadow Chronicles should have had General Reinheart stating that every ship in the fleet would have to be downgraded to the old fusion engines to persevere their two year supply of Protoculture.

It makes the cleanup harder, whether it impacts like a meteor(as we know some did),

Come to think of it things would have been alot different if the Macross just vaporized in the atmosphere rather then impacting the Earth like a meter:

1. No Unification war or United Government

2. Ichigo would never have met Misa or Minmay

3. Roy would have settled with Aries and the two of them would most likely of died from lung cancer from inhaling Cigeratte smoke and Hybercarbon space alloy in the atmosphere.

4. Shin would live a normal life, but never meet Sara or the Bird Human.

5. Saddest of all their would be no Battleoid or Gerwalk modes, only Tom Cruise in a regular F-14 fighter.

6. When the Zentradi finally arrive Tom Cruise would shout "all hail Xeno," then he would sing "You've Lost That Feeling" to Milia, follow her into the bathroom, and get shot down in a dogfight with her because Maverick's F-14 can't transform.

In the Robotech Universe WWIII consumes the world in a nuclear apocalypse several days after the SDF-1 vaporizes to pieces in the atmosphere, and the Zentradi, Masters, and Invid commit mass suicide when they discover their whole reason of existence is now in ashes. Zor sreams dam you Protocultrure! This isn't how the circle is supposed to end! as he fades from existence.

Edited May 30, 2009 by Freiflug88

[Einherjar]

In the Robotech Universe WWIII consumes the world in a nuclear apocalypse several days after the SDF-1 vaporizes to pieces in the atmosphere, and the Zentradi, Masters, and Invid commit mass suicide when they discover their whole reason of existence is now in ashes. Zor sreams dam you Protocultrure! This isn't how the circle is supposed to end! as he fades from existence.

With time travel involved at the end, wouldn't that make Robotech a convoluted xanatos gambit started by Zor or his cloned relative something and Minmei?

[Freiflug88]

With time travel involved at the end, wouldn't that make Robotech a convoluted xanatos gambit started by Zor or his cloned relative something and Minmei?

No, the "End of Circle" of Robotech is a Stable Time Loop: "Through Applied Phlebotinum, Functional Magic, or some other means, our heroes travel back to the past. In the past, they wind up being responsible for the very events that underpin their own "present." This creates a chicken-and-egg scenario, in which the looping sequence of events has no clear beginning." http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StableTimeLoop

[taksraven]

just as the second moon in Southern Cross was painstakingly airbrushed out for several shots.

I think that they should have left the second moon in and claimed that it was the Zentradi Factory Satellite. Would have made about as much sense as the "SDF 2" in "To the Stars".

Taksraven

[Einherjar]

For Wanzerfan:

[JB0]

Come to think of it things would have been alot different if the Macross just vaporized in the atmosphere rather then impacting the Earth like a meter:

1. No Unification war or United Government

2. Ichigo would never have met Misa or Minmay

3. Roy would have settled with Aries and the two of them would most likely of died from lung cancer from inhaling Cigeratte smoke and Hybercarbon space alloy in the atmosphere.

4. Shin would live a normal life, but never meet Sara or the Bird Human.

5. Saddest of all their would be no Battleoid or Gerwalk modes, only Tom Cruise in a regular F-14 fighter.

6. When the Zentradi finally arrive Tom Cruise would shout "all hail Xeno," then he would sing "You've Lost That Feeling" to Milia, follow her into the bathroom, and get shot down in a dogfight with her because Maverick's F-14 can't transform.

In the Robotech Universe WWIII consumes the world in a nuclear apocalypse several days after the SDF-1 vaporizes to pieces in the atmosphere, and the Zentradi, Masters, and Invid commit mass suicide when they discover their whole reason of existence is now in ashes. Zor sreams dam you Protocultrure! This isn't how the circle is supposed to end! as he fades from existence.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Doubly so for the Robotech version.

[Seto Kaiba]

As far as the VF-1 is concerned, what has the rt world done differently with specs on it compared to the Macross canon? I'm curious, cause I simply never researched this in depth.

Robotech's tech specs for the VF-1 Valkyrie are basically just the Macross specs with most of the details boiled out.

The only real departures from the original Macross specs for the VF-1 Valkyrie are two animation goofs that were canonized, and the whole tossup over the fuel. That one animation error where the sensor blisters on the nosecone were animated as laser cannons was made official, which is flagged as a technology upgrade unique to units aboard the SDF-1. When the developers at Vicious Cycle were looking to pad out Robotech: Battlecry, they turned the VF-1A mistakenly animated with three head lasers from "Broken Heart" (Ep32) into another variant of the VF-1, the VF-1R. The whole fuel debate is still unsettled... initially Tommy Yune didn't specify what VF-1's ran on when he did the new comics with Wildstorm, but when the new RPG rolled out, he decided that the VF-1 runs on thermonuclear fusion (based on vague dialogue from the series).

No, the "End of Circle" of Robotech is a Stable Time Loop: "Through Applied Phlebotinum, Functional Magic, or some other means, our heroes travel back to the past. In the past, they wind up being responsible for the very events that underpin their own "present." This creates a chicken-and-egg scenario, in which the looping sequence of events has no clear beginning." http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StableTimeLoop

Fortunately, that's a McKinneyism, and even the fans gave up trying to shoehorn that crap into the continuity. Most of them treat the McKinney novels as borderline fan-fiction, due to their often nonsensical departures from the TV series.

Initially, members of the Robotech "creative" team made some remarks that they were considering a looping story for future Robotech TV shows (Robotech III: the Odyssey, Robotech IV, etc.) and speculated at an ending in the future where a retired "Commodore Hunter" would start to tell a batch of cadets about how it all began, using that to loop the story around into a self-repeating narrative.

Edited May 31, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[taksraven]

Most of them treat the McKinney novels as borderline fan-fiction, due to their often nonsensical departures from the TV series.

Harsh, but still understated. Good writing.

Taksraven

Edited May 31, 2009 by taksraven

[sketchley]

Fortunately, that's a McKinneyism, and even the fans gave up trying to shoehorn that crap into the continuity. Most of them treat the McKinney novels as borderline fan-fiction, due to their often nonsensical departures from the TV series.(...)

Funny. I considered the novels the second best. After the better comics, of course.

[terry the lone wolf]

For Wanzerfan:

Yeah I have this in my Protoculture collection; I always knew of the alternate ending of RT: The Movie commisioned by HG. When I was reviewing the extras and found this I was pleasantly surprised. Though, I wonder why in the animatic they show Mark in a hover vehicle and not the Modat 6 fighting B.D. Except for that the animatic it's still pretty close to the finish product. It doesn't seem like HG has any ownership over the animation because Victor or the Idol company has released it on a few MZ23 special editions.

Edited May 31, 2009 by terry the lone wolf

[Beltane70]

I'm still amazed that they made the VF-1R as a variation based solely on one appearance in the original series. I don't even recall ever seeing it in my various re-watchings of SDF:M.

[Einherjar]

Fortunately, that's a McKinneyism, and even the fans gave up trying to shoehorn that crap into the continuity. Most of them treat the McKinney novels as borderline fan-fiction, due to their often nonsensical departures from the TV series.

To be fair, from what I've heard they did try to bring in some character development not found in Macross, although some of it can be considered TMI and fan disservice material. For example, Britai got into a relationship with someone and it may have been too explicit in the novels.

And does anybody know the whole story of what happened with Minmei in the novels? They made it very clear that the best relationship she was ever in was always with Rick. It was also clear from her and other characters' treatment that they mattered more in the Macross era.

But that stuff about Robotech III seems excessive. Geez, they really wanted to keep Rick Hunter alive and past his prime for narrative purposes.

[Freiflug88]

For Wanzerfan:

Robotech: The Untold Story Movie Animatic

"Initiating automatic defense sequence. Retrofire locked on target." Sounds like EVE is even better then Louie's Pupil Pistol, except when she drives you insane singing the "Future is Now."

They turned the VF-1A mistakenly animated with three head lasers from "Broken Heart" (Ep32) into another variant of the VF-1, the VF-1R

That solves the mystery of why Lisa wasn't in Shadow Chronicles. HG at least had enough sense to not show the redesign Tommy Yune made of Lisa as a three armed freak after watching "Force of Arms" (Ep 27).

Fortunately, that's a McKinneyism, and even the fans gave up trying to shoehorn that crap into the continuity. Most of them treat the McKinney novels as borderline fan-fiction, due to their often nonsensical departures from the TV series.

The time travel loop idea was Macek idea originally and was incorporated in part into McKinney's novel "End of the Circle" from what I heard.

[Ginrai]

Yeah I have this in my Protoculture collection; I always knew of the alternate ending of RT: The Movie commisioned by HG. When I was reviewing the extras and found this I was pleasantly surprised. Though, I wonder why in the animatic they show Mark in a hover vehicle and not the Modat 6 fighting B.D. Except for that the animatic it's still pretty close to the finish product. It doesn't seem like HG has any ownership over the animation because Victor or the Idol company has released it on a few MZ23 special editions.

The MODAT 6 only exists in the terrible Robotech The Movie comic. In the actual Robotech The Movie he flies a Pluto jet until it gets shot down and somehow there is a Space Hargun inside of it which he pilots. The Space Hargun only shows in Megazone 23 normally for a couple of seconds in the space combat scenes where it is immediately exploded.

Edited May 31, 2009 by Ginrai

[Seto Kaiba]

Funny. I considered the novels the second best. After the better comics, of course.

's why I said "most", not "all". There are some fans out there who actually like the McKinney novels, and some who prefer them to the TV series itself. All the same, they're a fairly small minority, and one with a savage persecution complex, due in large measure to the fact that the majority of Robotech fans (and Robotech's "creative staff") hold the novels in such low regard.

(Usually starting a sentence with "In the novels..." in a debate over there is enough to make sure most people don't even read the rest of your post)

I'm still amazed that they made the VF-1R as a variation based solely on one appearance in the original series. I don't even recall ever seeing it in my various re-watchings of SDF:M.

Yeah, I was too... it only appeared for a few seconds (one scene) in Ep32 "Broken Heart". The entirety of the footage showing it (a short .gif sequence) is in the Robotech.com Infopedia article on it.

I find it particularly obnoxious, since the branch of Macross I'm researching (the alternate universe) already has a "VF-1R", and every time I talk about it I have to qualify it with "no, not the Robotech one".

That solves the mystery of why Lisa wasn't in Shadow Chronicles. HG at least had enough sense to not show the redesign Tommy Yune made of Lisa as a three armed freak after watching "Force of Arms" (Ep 27).

If only it were that simple... or that amusing.

Lisa DID appear in Robotech: Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles. The Haruhiko Mikimoto design (Misa Hayase) was replaced by a hopelessly generic-looking woman with her hair done up in a simple ponytail. I guess they decided that she wasn't worth the effort, so she gets seriously wounded early in the comic and spends most of the miniseries recovering, only to quit the military and become a member of the "Sentinels Council" instead, neatly getting her out of the way so they'd be able to minimize the number of VAs they'd have to call back.

[Jasonc]

Lisa DID appear in Robotech: Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles. The Haruhiko Mikimoto design (Misa Hayase) was replaced by a hopelessly generic-looking woman with her hair done up in a simple ponytail. I guess they decided that she wasn't worth the effort, so she gets seriously wounded early in the comic and spends most of the miniseries recovering, only to quit the military and become a member of the "Sentinels Council" instead, neatly getting her out of the way so they'd be able to minimize the number of VAs they'd have to call back.

The one thing that Robotech is trying to get rid of "tactfully", is the same thing that gives it it's roots. Robotech will never stand on it's own while it uses someone else's designs and lacks the originality to stand on its own. They simply wrote out all the Macross characters in the comics, except some detached, unrelated geriatric version of "Rick Hunter". I have the comics you speak of, and thought of them more as a simple solution to complex problems in regards to the Macross characters.

As for the VF-1R, I think it was called the YF-1R for Robotech. Don't quote me on that. I never understood why it was even made as a Robotech canon veritech. What they should've done is simply redo the fastpack armor or even do something like the Platypus Valkyrie custom.